Going bigger !

[Brianb84]

Just went to a bigger truck, looking into a bigger camper and looking for advice from the pros.
I have a 2017 Ford F250 Lariat Crew Cab Diesel, not a dually.
We are getting a 2020 Raptor 356.
Would air bags help with the squatting of the truck? smoother ride? safer?
How do I determine if this combination is legal by the DOT?
I appreciate it.

[jsb5717]

First, Welcome aboard! You've come to the right place to find experienced, knowledgeable answers.

Your truck will easily pull that trailer. However, the real issue is the truck's payload. There is a yellow sticker inside the driver's side door that will tell you the maximum load weight - you can post a pic of it if you like.

I'm not sure what trailer you're talking about. You said Raptor so I assume Toy Hauler but the number you gave doesn't work. If it's a 5er you would need to figure 20% of the trailer's GVWR as a minimum for your pin weight (15% for a TT). Add to that number total occupants and gear. Is your total weight higher or lower than your trucks stated payload? That's how to decide what you can legally tow.

[Canonman]

Welcome Brian, not sure which Raptor your looking at. The smallest Raptor floor plan I can find is a 351. These are big toy haulers. 13k dry weight and 3,000 lbs on the pin. I just don't know of any 3/4 ton trucks with a payload that would allow for 3k+ pin weights.
Are you looking at something smaller??

[Brianb84]

Typo, Actually buying the Raptor 356

[jsb5717]

Ah, that trailer weighs 17k lbs. Your pin weight would be at least 3400 lbs. Your 3/4 ton truck simply isn't enough truck to pull it safely. You would need a minimum of a 1 ton and likely a dually.

Added: Fully loaded with people, gear, etc. you will have a total weight requirement of at least 4000lbs. You will likely be 1200-1500 lbs (or more) over the payload of that truck.

[chuckster57]

A raptor 356 is simply too much trailer for your truck. Air bags may help the squat, but they won’t increase your payload capacity as written in the certification label.

[flybouy]

Way too much weight for any 3/4 ton truck.

[Brianb84]

They posted the hitch weight at 3,175lbs.
Is that based on the Dry weight or the GVWR ?
I am assuming the GVWR.

[sourdough]

They posted the hitch weight at 3,175lbs.
Is that based on the Dry weight or the GVWR ?
I am assuming the GVWR.


The hitch/pin weight on the website is "dry". It is a 17k lb. trailer so figure about 20% of gvw for pin weight = 3400. I think that is probably irrelevant anyway. What is the payload of your truck? A 17 F250 diesel Lariat CC.....23-2500lbs.?? A no go from the git go IMO.

https://www.keystonerv.com/toy-haulers/raptor/floorplans/356-toy-hauler/

[Brianb84]

2,137lbs according to the stick inside of the drivers door. I don't think I have seen a fifth wheel toy hauler below 2800 on the hitch weight.

[notanlines]

Brian, it is suggested in dozens of places on this and other RV sites to BUY THE RV FIRST, THE TV SECOND. All of the posters above are exactly correct, with jsb being the most pointed.
The specs on that RV are GVWR, 17,000 lbs., Hitch Weight, 3,175 lbs. That hitch weight is dead empty as shipped from the factory. when you have your goodies loaded things go from bad to worse. Your F250 ain't even close, sorry.

[jsb5717]

2,137lbs according to the stick inside of the drivers door. I don't think I have seen a fifth wheel toy hauler below 2800 on the hitch weight.

You're already ahead of the game simply by asking these questions now rather than after you've bought yourself a safety hazard. Good on you.

Now that you know that you will be around 1 full ton over the capacity of your current truck you'll have some hard decisions to make about a different, much lighter 5er or a different truck. Please keep us informed on your journey.

More questions? Just ask. Someone here will have the answer.

[Brianb84]

We have pretty much been living in a campground here in VA for the last 3 months. I am surprised at the number of people I see pulling very large toy haulers with 3/4 ton trucks. I appreciate everyone's feedback.

[wiredgeorge]

2,137lbs according to the stick inside of the drivers door. I don't think I have seen a fifth wheel toy hauler below 2800 on the hitch weight.


Brian, you will over your payload if you buy anything other than the smallest half-ton towable fifth wheel. If you need a toy hauler and don't want to spend the money on a new truck, perhaps look at the Springdale and Hideout lines; both of which have bumper pull toy haulers your truck would be comfortable with. There is only about half as much weight on your truck with a bumper pull compared to a fifth wheel so payload isn't as critical. There may be other bumper pull toy haulers that fit the bill as well.

[Laredo Tugger]

We have pretty much been living in a campground here in VA for the last 3 months. I am surprised at the number of people I see pulling very large toy haulers with 3/4 ton trucks. I appreciate everyone's feedback.

I'm surprised too. Those smart enough to ask and calculate (like yourself) will come out ahead in the end. Looking at the Raptor 356 pictures it shows a 3 axle FW. Personally I think as a rule, 6 wheels in the back should equal 6 wheels in the front (dually) as a minimum, but I have seen that violated as well.
As mentioned good for you asking and listening. I had the same "upgrade dilemma" but already had purchased the trailer, so the decision was easy for me,got a bigger truck. Good luck.
RMc

[jsb5717]

... I am surprised at the number of people I see pulling very large toy haulers with 3/4 ton trucks. I appreciate everyone's feedback.


Yep, and we are all forced to share the roads with those folks who are either ignorant of the danger they put themselves and the rest of us in, or are too arrogant and foolish and think that math works differently for them.

I'm glad you're paying attention.

[travelin texans]

For that rv a diesel dually would be minimum.

[chuckster57]

For that rv a diesel dually would be minimum.

Got that right!! And I’m leaning towards a 2 ton.

[ronheater70]

FWIW, I wouldnt pull 17K with my 1 ton, its a SRW. I honestly feel around that weight a dually would be a smart investment.

[chunker]

I have a Raptor 356 and pull with a 17 Ram SRW long bed diesel. Cargo capacity from the door sticker 4207#. I BARELY have enough truck and that's only because I'm no where near GVW. I also have all the crap in the garage and that includes the case of water. Only 1/3 tank fresh water and 0 waste. I do have an aux fuel tank that I can only fuel to 1/2 capacity. Can you pull it, yes since you have the same engine as I do. Can you stop it, MAYBE. Will you be overloaded in available cargo capacity, rear axle rating and probably tire ratings, absolutely.

EDIT adding. I have made a few trips to the scales, truck bare with fuel and me only, trailer empty the day I came home from the dealer, (overweight on rear axle 200#) and on my current trip "loaded for bear" well small bear. With everything loaded, full fridge, motorcycle and all dear, tools, extra supplies in the garage I'm still over the rear axle 200# so that means a 200# or 30 gallons of diesel reduction. I'm still good for the tire weight ratings but I don't have 20" tires either. Course of the next couple weeks I'll lighten the fridge some, it's really full now.

[LewisB]

We have a 2018 Raptor 353TS that is nearly identical in weight/size to your 356; roughly 17K GVWR and 3K hitch. Our tow vehicle is a 2017 F350 DRW with 5560 payload. All the other posters are absolutely correct. The 356 is way too much trailer for an F250.

BTW, seeing all the campers towing overloaded with massive trailers behind a 3/4 ton truck is like sitting outside a bar at 2 a.m. and watching the drunks come out and drive away. Just because they are doing it doesn't mean it is safe, legal, or smart!

JMHO

[81SHOVELHEAD]

If you just have to have a toyhauler your best bet would be a bumper pull toy hauler. If you already bought the Raptor i have to agree you ain't got enough truck. In my personal opinion any 5th wheel listing a dry weight of over 12K puts you in the 1 ton range. Air bags does not increase cargo capacity

[CaptnJohn]

My f359 srw was way over payload so didn't bother checking other weights, 3370 on the pin made the decision for a new f350 dually. payload rating 5598. Full fw and aux fuel and I have 960 cushion. OP, you need a dually.

[chunker]

We have a 2018 Raptor 353TS that is nearly identical in weight/size to your 356; roughly 17K GVWR and 3K hitch. Our tow vehicle is a 2017 F350 DRW with 5560 payload. All the other posters are absolutely correct. The 356 is way too much trailer for an F250.

BTW, seeing all the campers towing overloaded with massive trailers behind a 3/4 ton truck is like sitting outside a bar at 2 a.m. and watching the drunks come out and drive away. Just because they are doing it doesn't mean it is safe, legal, or smart!

JMHO

My situation should not be considered typical because I am extremely cognizant of weights, weight ratings, and loading considerations. Not to toot my own horn, but 45 years flying single engine helicopters and light twins, required me to know what those limitations are and operate within them. Granted the RV won't fall off the road as quickly but it can lead to disaster if a person consistently ignores good safe operating practices.

Loading; my loading is arranged to take advantage of tradition toy hauler design and have "heavy toys" in the garage. If I had extra kitchen sinks they would be in the garage. Fluids, I have 2 main types, consumable (or consumed) and burnable. The idea is take what I need of each type and limit what I don't need. Water; I'm traveling with minimum fresh so I can have as much fuel as possible. Consumed water (black and grey tank contents) are kept at 0 or a minimum. Again to increase fuel for transit days. My GVWR for the Raptor is 17K and I'm loaded around 15.9K. The area I can load extra weight is the garage because that unloads to a certain amount the pin weight which becomes the critical loading region.

Should I have a dually, probably so and I wouldn't have to jump through so many hoops to travel right and safe? Will I get a dually, maybe if the hassle of my current methods become too "weighty".

Meanwhile yesterday's travel was inadvertently in severe thunderstorms and high gusty side winds most of the day. Central and northern Illinois. I slowed and even stopped in a rest area until the rain slacked but in all this I didn't have any sway or signifiant buffetting from the winds. After the storms I could see the trees swaying but until I stopped at a rest area for some "relief" and the door pulled out of my grip, I didn't realize how brisk the winds were. Truck and trailer very stable and solid. Happy tow.

[Gunny Mike]

We were relying on the trailer life towing guide when I bought our F250 for a 5er. Ended up passing on the Montana after putting $5k down and bought a Outback 341RD instead. I still get a little squat in the back myself. Wife hasn't been happy for the past two years since she didn't get her Montana. Wish their was some type of app where you can put info in to assist. I recall one salesman telling us a 3/4 ton can pull all 2 axles 5rs, and a three axle trailer would require a F350.

[sourdough]

We were relying on the trailer life towing guide when I bought our F250 for a 5er. Ended up passing on the Montana after putting $5k down and bought a Outback 341RD instead. I still get a little squat in the back myself. Wife hasn't been happy for the past two years since she didn't get her Montana. Wish their was some type of app where you can put info in to assist. I recall one salesman telling us a 3/4 ton can pull all 2 axles 5rs, and a three axle trailer would require a F350.



^^^^^And that salesman, and those like him, is one of the reasons so many folks tow overweight unknowingly thinking everything is fine. There should be some sort of policy that prohibited sales people from even discussing weights. Most I've talked to don't even tow RVs; one had an older MH as I recall.

[philiprmcgovern]

Having driven a F150, F250 and 350 DRW to tow two different Fifth Wheels, I have learned that the safest and simplest solution is just go ahead, bite the bullet, and invest in the F350 or F450 RWD and be done with it

Benefits:
- You will have a towing beast
- If you decide later to get a bigger RV, you’re covered.
- You can stop reading the “How much truck?” threads.

[travelin texans]

We were relying on the trailer life towing guide when I bought our F250 for a 5er. Ended up passing on the Montana after putting $5k down and bought a Outback 341RD instead. I still get a little squat in the back myself. Wife hasn't been happy for the past two years since she didn't get her Montana. Wish their was some type of app where you can put info in to assist. I recall one salesman telling us a 3/4 ton can pull all 2 axles 5rs, and a three axle trailer would require a F350.

NEVER listen to a truck or RV salesman or rely on any published listings when determining suitable rv/truck weights, the salesman don't know/don't care or spouting dry weights that mean nothing & the publishings are usually for a truck you'd never find or buy.
There's only 2 numbers needed for calculations, the payload of YOUR truck from the sticker on the drivers door & the GVWR of YOUR rv posted on the driver side front corner then calculate 10-15% tongue weight for TTs or 20-25% pin weight for 5th wheels.

[wiredgeorge]

Lots of good advice but it is falling on the deaf ears of the OP who hasn't been on for five days. Never quite sure why folks ask about the ability of a truck to tow a specific camper if they don't hear what they want to hear. Probably make a lot of folks happy if a sticky was put up saying it was just dandy to pull their DRV Mobile Suites fifth wheel with their Tundra or better with their SUV.

[MarkEHansen]

Having driven a F150, F250 and 350 DRW to tow two different Fifth Wheels, I have learned that the safest and simplest solution is just go ahead, bite the bullet, and invest in the F350 or F450 RWD and be done with it

Benefits:
- You will have a towing beast
- If you decide later to get a bigger RV, you’re covered.
- You can stop reading the “How much truck?” threads.


Certainly, the F350/F450 is more capable than smaller trucks, and can tow many trailers in use today. But there are trailers that are too much even for these trucks. You should always, always evaluate your numbers and make sure your trailer is within the specs for your tow vehicle.

No one should assume that if they have a 1-ton dually, they can tow any trailer.

[LewisB]

Lots of good advice but it is falling on the deaf ears of the OP who hasn't been on for five days. Never quite sure why folks ask about the ability of a truck to tow a specific camper if they don't hear what they want to hear. Probably make a lot of folks happy if a sticky was put up saying it was just dandy to pull their DRV Mobile Suites fifth wheel with their Tundra or better with their SUV.

You are absolutely correct, George. In the OP, he states "Going Bigger" and "I have...a F250..." and then he states "We are getting...a Raptor 356". He asked about fixing the "squatting" of his truck - how would he know it squats unless he had already hooked up? In post #4, he states "actually buying the Raptor". So, I think he had already made the purchase decisions.

Within the first hour of his post, he had his answers. Jeff (jsb5717) answered his questions - he would need a 1 ton and likely a DRW. And the advice has been consistent. So this leaves a good "trail" for any subsequent new users who happen to review the thread.

[wiredgeorge]

You are absolutely correct, George. In the OP, he states "Going Bigger" and "I have...a F250..." and then he states "We are getting...a Raptor 356". He asked about fixing the "squatting" of his truck - how would he know it squats unless he had already hooked up? In post #4, he states "actually buying the Raptor". So, I think he had already made the purchase decisions.

Within the first hour of his post, he had his answers. Jeff (jsb5717) answered his questions - he would need a 1 ton and likely a DRW. And the advice has been consistent. So this leaves a good "trail" for any subsequent new users who happen to review the thread.


Might be handy to have a sub forum where these threads could reside to make finding them easier for those wanting real info on their ability to tow with a certain tow vehicle and camper. I think the answers to these questions generally fall into the "you ain't got enough truck" category and the responses by the original poster are one of two ways; ignore and ask about air bags or magic hitches OR some actually heed the advice. Sadly too many put their lives and the lives of their families and other motorists in danger because they can't accept good advice given here. For those that do heed good advice, thanks!

[notanlines]

I think George (all of you for that matter) is correct. He hasn't been back for more than a week, and he stated "Actually buying the Raptor 356" awhile back.
"There are none so blind as those who will not see" probably applies here. A saying coined by the once famous quarterback of the Texas Aggies, Johnny Manziel.