2021 Premier 29RK-W/F150 @1,658lbs Cap.

[Swampdollar]

OK guys, The wife found one today she really loved, I applied the formula you showed me and here's the stack-up...
Here's my sticker as a reminder, F150 SCrew 4X4 V8 w/ 3.55 GR, 145 WB...


https://www.keystoneforums.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=29487&stc=1&d=1598731165



The Camper is a 2021 Premier 29RK.
6154 DRY
7600 GVW

Truck cap 1,658 minus Hitch weight 988 670 Minus People & Blu & accessories 555 Left for cargo 115
I'm seeing the 115 as it's using up most all of my capacity if we in fact load the RV to it's capacity, but should still be doable.

Thoughts?
Thanks in advanced
PS. Still just shopping!

[sourdough]

Realize that this trailer gvw is only 140lbs. less than the one that was deemed too much in your other thread??

With about a 1400lb. payload capacity for the trailer you may very well use that up so the 988 (13% tongue) might very well be what you are looking at for the actual tongue weight. You are allowing 555 for everyone, everything and I assume the hitch? Can you break that down? That seems awfully light to me.

Another thing; that is a 34' 5" trailer. It is a HUGE sail to have behind a 1/2 ton truck that is then maxed out on capacity. It can, and will, exert forces that your truck will have a hard time controlling - even with a good 4 point hitch like an Equalizer (btdt). Combine that with the P rated passenger tires (35psi) and all I see are problems.....and no safety cushion. In the event of an evasive maneuver that trailer is going to have its way with your truck.

[flybouy]

IMHO if driving a "pretty 1/2 ton truck" is the priority then set your trailer consideration to between 25'-27' max. If having a trailer that's 29'-30'+ then you need a 3/4 ton truck min.

[Northofu1]

Weight aside, even adding Bilstein's and air ride to stiffen rear end up, at 35 ft that tail will wag the dog.
It was a reality check for me as well, as I had the 26 rbpr (30 ft long)and a gmc 1500.

[slow]

IMHO if driving a "pretty 1/2 ton truck" is the priority then set your trailer consideration to between 25'-27' max. If having a trailer that's 29'-30'+ then you need a 3/4 ton truck min.

This is very good advice worth following IMO.

[Swampdollar]

OK, OK! I get it!
It's just so frustrating! And yes, sourdough, 550 IS a little light, I'm a big ol' Shad! Might should use 625! LOL!

[sourdough]

OK, OK! I get it!
It's just so frustrating! And yes, sourdough, 550 IS a little light, I'm a big ol' Shad! Might should use 625! LOL!



Swampdollar, I KNOW how frustrating it is. It can be downright maddening at times. If you had a blank slate it is much easier but you don't. As I've said before many times (maybe in a post to you?) when doing this "dance" a person either starts with a clean slate and can match the TV to the trailer or 1) the truck dictates the trailer or 2) the trailer dictates the truck. In your case you have the truck therefore it drives what trailer you can have. THAT is the frustrating part.

When you just randomly start looking at trailers, if you let yourself, or the salesman, drive you to the big fancy units that click all the boxes for you then you will have a hard time trying to be satisfied with something that HAS to fit the existing truck. And, you are doing a heck of a job trying to do this the right way.

To save, as much as possible, on the frustration I would suggest this; look at the payload on your truck (1658 as I recall). Start there. Realistically determine the weight of all passengers. If there are children anticipate growth and all the things kids will want with them in the TV. In the truck you WILL have "stuff"; snacks, tools, cribbing blocks, maybe an ice chest, jacks (or you should) etc. My DW takes an "entertainment bag" with her anytime she steps into a vehicle with me for a trip....along with the "snack" bag. I carry my laptop behind my seat along with my briefcase. Stuff like that.

Take the realistic weight of the family and pets; add say 25lbs for misc. in the cab; add 150lbs. for all the stuff in the bed (if you have a bed cover add that); add 120 for a wdh/sway. What does that come to? If we take your 675 you mentioned, add the 120 for the hitch, 150 for items in the bed and 25 for in cab "stuff", we have 970lbs. That leaves the tongue weight. 1658 - 970 = 688 for tongue weight. At 688 you will max out your payload. If you left a 10% cushion on you payload, say 165lbs. that would reduce the available allowance for tongue weight to 523lbs. Now it's getting bleak compared to those 34-35' trailers. As you can see if you have one end or the other of that TV/trailer equation you have to back into the numbers to guide you on what you can reasonably, safely, match to the other vehicle.

Now that we're at that point let's figure a 523 tongue weight; a 523 tongue weight at a 13% loading would allow about a 4000lb. gvw trailer. If you forego the cushion and look at 688 at the 13% load it would equate to a about a 5300lb. gvw trailer. Not what you want to hear I know.

Those numbers are based on assumptions and more or less standardized percentages. You might get by with a 12% tongue weight (that's what I used to have) which gives a little bit of room and will depend on the trailer and loading. The numbers are using gvw and max weights to hopefully give you a cushion if you don't max out the weights. It is easier to do the smaller the trailer and a small payload on the trailer.

Another thought; if you add 1000lbs. to the trailer gvw it will increase (theoretically) the tongue weight by approx. 130lbs. That 1658 payload hurts you when trying to select a larger trailer (and 35' on a 1/2 ton IS large and wind will, without a doubt, whip the truck/trailer).

Think about the above, those numbers and what they entail. There is a path forward but it just might not be exactly the one you wanted to take. Post back with thoughts and we will help all we can.

Edit: Just noticed the 675 weight I posted was incorrect. OP indicated 625 so numbers would be 50lbs. high.

[BrooksFam]

SD, Have you looked at the Keystone Bullet 258RKS?

https://www.google.com/search?source=hp&ei=hf5KX9jgCI-0swWfyJqADw&q=keystone+bullet+258rks&oq=bullet+258rks&gs_lcp=CgZwc3ktYWIQARgFMgIIADICCAAyAggAMgIIADICCAA yBggAEBYQHjIGCAAQFhAeMgYIABAWEB4yBggAEBYQHjIGCAAQF hAeOgsILhCxAxCDARCTAjoICC4QsQMQgwE6CwguELEDEMcBEKM COggIABCxAxCDAToICC4QxwEQowI6DgguELEDEMcBEKMCEJMCO gIILjoFCAAQsQM6CAguEMcBEK8BOgUILhCxAzoLCC4QxwEQrwE QkwI6BwgAELEDEApQrwtYij5gtYIBaABwAHgAgAHPAYgB9w-SAQYwLjEyLjGYAQCgAQGqAQdnd3Mtd2l6&sclient=psy-ab

[Gegrad]

I personally wouldn't worry a single lick about the length of the trailer you are towing; a good WDH with 4 pt sway will take care of that. Putting some LT tires on the truck does help. I did notice a difference after I put LT tires on my old truck. The weight is the biggest enemy you have and others are giving you great advice there. I upgraded trucks in December not because of sway, but because I was at my payload and my family was growing, so I did not want to be towing overloaded. I towed my 33' overall length Premier for 2.5 years and close to 10k miles with my old half ton Chevy and NEVER had a single white knuckle experience with sway. I do have a great sway control unit hitch.

Everyone says you will notice a difference once you tow with a 3/4 ton or larger truck after towing with a 1/2 ton--I did notice a difference-- In braking and overall towing effort. My truck doesn't work nearly as hard as the old 1/2 ton did going up hills and coming down hills. But there has not been a lick of difference in the new truck as far as sway. Just my 2 cents.

[Swampdollar]

Thanks for the suggestion, Sourdough! I'm comfortable with 695 total added weight and I've change my spreadsheet to calculate the Go or No-Go. Just haven't taken into account length as well. I just have to decide do I get a truck to match my RV, or get a RV to match my Truck. I guess if this where my 2nd RV that decision would be easier, I think we're going to camp often, but we may not! If I could see into that crystal ball, I'd break bad with extending my Truck payment a few years and upgrade to a Big Boy Truck! Again, Thanks for your input!

[Swampdollar]

Brooksfam, I got that one on my list, and went to look at it today, but it had been sold! So we're going to wait to find another 258RKS to look at. I've found that online videos and pics are nice, but nothing replaces kicking the tires in person!

[sourdough]

I personally wouldn't worry a single lick about the length of the trailer you are towing; a good WDH with 4 pt sway will take care of that. Putting some LT tires on the truck does help. I did notice a difference after I put LT tires on my old truck. The weight is the biggest enemy you have and others are giving you great advice there. I upgraded trucks in December not because of sway, but because I was at my payload and my family was growing, so I did not want to be towing overloaded. I towed my 33' overall length Premier for 2.5 years and close to 10k miles with my old half ton Chevy and NEVER had a single white knuckle experience with sway. I do have a great sway control unit hitch.

Everyone says you will notice a difference once you tow with a 3/4 ton or larger truck after towing with a 1/2 ton--I did notice a difference-- In braking and overall towing effort. My truck doesn't work nearly as hard as the old 1/2 ton did going up hills and coming down hills. But there has not been a lick of difference in the new truck as far as sway. Just my 2 cents.




Not arguing with your assessment, I can only say my upgrade from 1/2 to 3/4 improved towing/white knuckle/sway tremendously....with the same hitch and trailer. Of course, I travel around W TX, TX, SE NM, AZ, CO and the southern US. Winds do happen, they do affect a 1/2 ton differently than a 3/4 ton without a doubt. I will say when I'm in the "protected" areas of the east with trees, hills and dales, it's nothing like experiencing the whipping, flipping winds of the plains....but, it does happen and it will make a difference depending on where the OP goes and trailer length. It IS a factor with a lighter truck. JMO

[Swampdollar]

Gegrad,
Nice Rig! Yeah, I think there's truth in the length VS sway comments, I think I have to determine how conservative I want to be in all this, I also know if you have your rig set-up right you can eliminate a lot of sway. I'm like you though, length never bothered me much, I've hauled utility trailers for years, and the longer they got the easier they hauled. Of course the don't have 11 foot tall sides either.

[sourdough]

Thanks for the suggestion, Sourdough! I'm comfortable with 695 total added weight and I've change my spreadsheet to calculate the Go or No-Go. Just haven't taken into account length as well. I just have to decide do I get a truck to match my RV, or get a RV to match my Truck. I guess if this where my 2nd RV that decision would be easier, I think we're going to camp often, but we may not! If I could see into that crystal ball, I'd break bad with extending my Truck payment a few years and upgrade to a Big Boy Truck! Again, Thanks for your input!


A couple of thoughts about your comments;

If you have the ability to match truck to trailer or vice versa I would if it were me. I say that not knowing a thing about your family, your thinking about camping or anything else, but, I do know that the number of folks that I know that bought RVs and then said they didn't want to camp anymore are few and far between.

Trucks and RVs depreciate the minute you sign the dotted line. Trying to get it right is important. I've seen folks upgrade, constantly, from 1/2 ton trucks; few, including myself, would go back unless I just got out of RVing which is not on the horizon even at our age. As far as RVs the same holds true; lots of folks start and then want to upgrade/upsize. Very few downsize until they get older and circumstances sort of drive that - or, camping in out of the way places that won't accommodate a larger RV.

You might share what it is that you hope to gain with an RV; the family size; favorite types of camping. It will help those here that have done this for decades help you....maybe see around some corners you're not aware of.

As I mentioned as far as truck and RV; I'm with going with a bigger truck if that is an option. Get that trailer that you think is what you want even if the truck has more ability than you think you need...you probably will. Getting a larger truck isn't problematic - it's just like your 1/2 ton with more capability. If you determine that RVing isn't for you the truck is still just fine. Buying too small a trailer, then you want a bigger one does a couple of things; you bought a new, smaller trailer now you need to get rid of it. It depreciates far more than a new truck so you take that hit. Then, you go get that "bigger" trailer and the process repeats - pay too much, instant depreciation (big).

Hopefully that makes sense. Many here have done the buy, trade/sell/lose money, buy, trade/sell/lose money process many times. Hopefully you can find the right path that will eliminate some of that. I'm in favor of bigger truck and get that trailer that you want and still be safe vs maxed out.

[skids]

My Bullet 248rks has a GVW of 6500 lb. I load it much lighter than that and I had a tounge weight of 950 lbs. This is with a full FW tank, but I normally pull with a half tank. I have a 2014 3.5L ecoboost that handles this trailer just fine, but I consider that I wouldn't want a bigger/heavier trailer with the truck. It doesn't "sway" at any speed below 65mph, but with stiff cross winds it is like "the tail wagging the dog" when a gust comes up. Not too concerning, but it gets your attention. I have an E2 1000 round bar hitch that is adjusted to where the front springs are depressed 1/2 inch (supposed to be none, but I wanted it this way).

[Swampdollar]

Skids, The Bullet 248rks is still on our list! We just haven't been able to tour one yet. Lot's of counter top and storage space as well as the layout we like. It's good to hear from folks that actually own one your looking at!

[sonofcy]

OK guys, The wife found one today she really loved, I applied the formula you showed me and here's the stack-up...
Here's my sticker as a reminder, F150 SCrew 4X4 V8 w/ 3.55 GR, 145 WB...


https://www.keystoneforums.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=29487&stc=1&d=1598731165



The Camper is a 2021 Premier 29RK.
6154 DRY
7600 GVW

Truck cap 1,658 minus Hitch weight 988 670 Minus People & Blu & accessories 555 Left for cargo 115
I'm seeing the 115 as it's using up most all of my capacity if we in fact load the RV to it's capacity, but should still be doable.

Thoughts?
Thanks in advanced
PS. Still just shopping!

So I assume this is a bumper pull. 13% hitch weight is a little light. 555 for 2 people, hitch, everything added to the truck since it left the factory is light (mine is 900lbs) and cargo of 150!!! The batteries and propane weigh more than that never mind all the camping gear. Try a 5,000lb GVWR trailer.

[kenmoffat]

Don't forget the water weight. It's pretty easy to have 500 pounds of water in various tanks.

[CaptnJohn]

It's not possible to make a grocery getter into a truck.You need to upgrade the TV or downgrade trailer weight.

[KarenK]

IMHO if driving a "pretty 1/2 ton truck" is the priority then set your trailer consideration to between 25'-27' max. If having a trailer that's 29'-30'+ then you need a 3/4 ton truck min.

I have to agree, have done both. 1/2 ton with a 97 Jayco 26 ft. 5th wheel (no slides). And a 3/4 ton dura max with a 31 ft. Springdale (one super slide) 5th wheel. The dura max feels so much better. Without doing the math I wouldn't even consider towing anything over 28 ft. with a half ton truck and even then the hills and inclines will be disappointing.

[Bill-2020]

It's not possible to make a grocery getter into a truck.You need to upgrade the TV or downgrade trailer weight.

I just knew someone would toss out the ol "grocery getter" in this post sooner or later. :nonono:

[notanlines]

Yes, shame on ol' CapnJohn for being that blunt. He should have broken it to him easier....:D
I'm not quite certain why people continue to come here for advice AFTER the TV is purchased when it is stated on this forum in so many places that the RV should be purchased first, and then suggest to pulling a 34' of RV behind a "I'll just call it a light-weight 1/2 ton."
In this case, Swampdollar seems to have a good attitude. History shows that not all members are so willing to listen.

[flybouy]

Yes, shame on ol' CapnJohn for being that blunt. He should have broken it to him easier....:D
I'm not quite certain why people continue to come here for advice AFTER the TV is purchased when it is stated on this forum in so many places that the RV should be purchased first, and then suggest to pulling a 34' of RV behind a "I'll just call it a light-weight 1/2 ton."
In this case, Swampdollar seems to have a good attitude. History shows that not all members are so willing to listen.

Instead of a “lightweight” 1/2 ton (sounds demeaning) I think in this decade of political correctness I personally am going to refer to them as “Very appealing, highly optioned, already pre loaded with 1/2 the weight capacity 1/2 ton truck”.

Does that sound better?:popcorn:

[Swampdollar]

Yeah, notanlines, it's all about attitude!
I guess we're going to have to take the route of progression. Buy the RV we can tow, and later, buy a TV that'll tow the RV we want. For the time being I'm going to strap the biggest RV my grocery getting can comfortably haul, if I wait till I can afford a big boy truck, I'm going to lose out on at least 3 years of fun! I'm reading to start enjoying life now!
Again, good advise!

[JRTJH]

Yeah, notanlines, it's all about attitude!
I guess we're going to have to take the route of progression. Buy the RV we can tow, and later, buy a TV that'll tow the RV we want. For the time being I'm going to strap the biggest RV my grocery getting can comfortably haul, if I wait till I can afford a big boy truck, I'm going to lose out on at least 3 years of fun! I'm reading to start enjoying life now!
Again, good advise!

Something to remember: Your kids (and you) will be making memories that last a lifetime and those memories won't include the limited accommodations of the trailer. They (and you) will remember the outstanding vacations filled with trips to places you otherwise would never have been able to visit. It's the times making Smore's, that bear that turned over the trash can and woke up the entire campground, getting wet standing under an impressive waterfall that they (and you) will cherish for years.... They (and you, to an extent) won't even remember the waiting lines for the bathroom, the "galley shuffle" or the "fights over who gets the end seat on the dinette bench"...

Get the trailer that you can safely tow now, protect your family (so they can make those cherished memories) and let the "little bit of crowding in the smaller RV" be a part of the plan that makes those "truly cherished memories" a reality....

Just keep the family safe!!! That's the most important factor, the rest will all work out "in the wash".....

[Bill-2020]

Yeah, notanlines, it's all about attitude!
I guess we're going to have to take the route of progression. Buy the RV we can tow, and later, buy a TV that'll tow the RV we want. For the time being I'm going to strap the biggest RV my grocery getting can comfortably haul, if I wait till I can afford a big boy truck, I'm going to lose out on at least 3 years of fun! I'm reading to start enjoying life now!
Again, good advise!

Good for you! We’ve done the same for years.