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Kidsmakeyoucrazy
08-28-2020, 04:26 AM
I've camped most of my life with my parents. They owned several campers over the years so I know the ins and outs of the various styles etc. Long story short. They sold their 5th wheel about 4 years ago and both recently passed. I've decided that I really miss it and am going to buy something very soon.

That said, I've run across what I think is a pretty good deal for something I can comfortably pull with my truck. Someone local has a 2020 Keystone Hideout 272LHS for sale. It was purchased in October. They bought it to test the waters and now they want to get a 5th wheel that is bigger and obviously easier to pull than a travel trailer. He is asking $19,000 including the hitch, waste hookups etc. NADA says used retail without any options is $21,000. The trailer has been stored inside when not in use and has only been used 6 times according to him. (guy owns a cement contracting company so yeah...). Is this a deal or am I missing something?

I know it's not a Cadillac but it looks really nice for the money. Tell me what I'm missing or to go write a check today!

flybouy
08-28-2020, 05:21 AM
What truck are "comfortably" going to tow it with? A quick search online I see them retail for $19k but prices vary according to area.

Kidsmakeyoucrazy
08-28-2020, 06:01 AM
2016 F-150 SuperCrew V8 with the towing package. 10,100# max towing capacity. 1997 max cargo, 1,100 max tongue weight. Trailer dry weight is 6069, GVWR is 7,780 and tongue is listed at 780#. I should be good as long as I don't try to haul the whole house with me. I haven't seen this model trailer locally for less than $22k used but I guess it depends on the market.

roadglide
08-28-2020, 06:21 AM
2016 F-150 SuperCrew V8 with the towing package. 10,100# max towing capacity. 1997 max cargo, 1,100 max tongue weight. Trailer dry weight is 6069, GVWR is 7,780 and tongue is listed at 780#. I should be good as long as I don't try to haul the whole house with me. I haven't seen this model trailer locally for less than $22k used but I guess it depends on the market.

Is that weight you stated from the left driver side door jam? There should be 2 sticker yellow and white .

Kidsmakeyoucrazy
08-28-2020, 06:58 AM
Is that weight you stated from the left driver side door jam? There should be 2 sticker yellow and white .

Cargo weight came straight off the yellow sticker. Capacities are from the 2016 ford towing guide chart for my engine, cab size, gears, etc combo. Also matches the sticker underneath the hitch.

But back to my main question. Is this a decent price for a used 2020 Hideout 272?

JRTJH
08-28-2020, 07:30 AM
Cargo weight came straight off the yellow sticker. Capacities are from the 2016 ford towing guide chart for my engine, cab size, gears, etc combo. Also matches the sticker underneath the hitch.

But back to my main question. Is this a decent price for a used 2020 Hideout 272?

Probably not..... I say "probably" because there is a lot more than "what you see when you look" at the trailer. Buying new for $1K to $3K more will get you a 1 year dealership warranty, buying used will not even get you a commitment from any dealership to service your trailer. As long as you don't need service, you're not going to feel the need for a dealer's help. When something goes south and you need part numbers for a spring or help with a wiring issue or a "custom aluminum roof molding strip" and no dealership will help you "because you didn't buy it there".....

There's something to be said for checking out the dealership as well as the trailer... Buying from an individual, especially a trailer that you plan to keep for several years, has disadvantages that can, in some situations, be far more expensive than the initial savings from buying "a super deal on a used trailer" from an individual.....

Weigh all the factors before consider "price savings" as the sole consideration...

flybouy
08-28-2020, 07:41 AM
2016 F-150 SuperCrew V8 with the towing package. 10,100# max towing capacity. 1997 max cargo, 1,100 max tongue weight. Trailer dry weight is 6069, GVWR is 7,780 and tongue is listed at 780#. I should be good as long as I don't try to haul the whole house with me. I haven't seen this model trailer locally for less than $22k used but I guess it depends on the market.

Just to clarify ... that published tongue weight and the empty weight for the trailer is a weight at the factory and will never been seen again. That weight does not include the dealer installed items such as battery, LP tanks and the LP in them, spare tire, hitch, etc.

It also does not reflect what you put in the camper. Here's where the typical argument goes to "we travel light and don't go far". So, at a minimum you'll need cooking utensils, pot & pans, coffee maker, plates and cups (yes paper plates and plastic cups have weight to), bed linens, blankets, cloths, shoes, bathroom supplies, cleaners, drinking water hose, holding tank hose, extension power cord, leveling blocks or cribbing, tire chocks, and how about entertainment? Fishing rods? Bean toss game? Kids tablets? Your laptop? It adds up quickly. Plan on eating or drinking any thing while your there?

The above is why most folks use the trailer GVW when they haven't hit a scale for doing weight calculations. I'll guarantee you'll be closer to that number than the "empty number. The tongue weight, again unknown if not measured, is typically 10%-15% for a travel trailer. So the middle of that is 13%. GVWR of 7,780 lbs X .13= 1,011.4 lbs. Let's call it a 1,000 lbs for easy calculations. Now this 1K doesn't include a WDH. Most people use 100-120 lbs for that. MIddle of that is 110 so now what you MOST LIKELY have is a tongue weight of 1,110 lbs. You are now over your hitch weight.

It also must be said that the truck's Cargo capacity from the yellow and white door placard is what the truck could hold when it came off the line at the factory. Anything that was added after that by the dealer or you reduces that max carrying capacity number. So if you added a bed liner, running boards, a bed cover, tool box, tools, floor mats, anything you placed anywhere in the truck including your cell phone charger and the stuff in your armrest or glove box reduces the trucks carrying capacity.

I know you don't want to hear this that you only want an answer to the specific question of the price of the camper which no but you can answer but it's information that I think you need to consider.

Kidsmakeyoucrazy
08-28-2020, 08:43 AM
Probably not..... I say "probably" because there is a lot more than "what you see when you look" at the trailer. Buying new for $1K to $3K more will get you a 1 year dealership warranty, buying used will not even get you a commitment from any dealership to service your trailer. As long as you don't need service, you're not going to feel the need for a dealer's help. When something goes south and you need part numbers for a spring or help with a wiring issue or a "custom aluminum roof molding strip" and no dealership will help you "because you didn't buy it there".....

There's something to be said for checking out the dealership as well as the trailer... Buying from an individual, especially a trailer that you plan to keep for several years, has disadvantages that can, in some situations, be far more expensive than the initial savings from buying "a super deal on a used trailer" from an individual.....

Weigh all the factors before consider "price savings" as the sole consideration...

That's exactly what I needed to know. I finally found a few new ones for sale in the 20-21 range so my guess is he needs to be around 17 for it to be worth it.

notanlines
08-28-2020, 09:04 AM
We had a member asking about depreciation and worth of an RV a couple days ago. Pulling up a 'rule of thumb' that was discussed, let's assume he paid 21K and it's a year old. 21K less the 20% right off the top leaving the lot and then 10% we're down to bring it down closer to 15K. It doesn't seem fair, agreed, but in my opinion you are going way out on a limb at 19K. YMMV

dutchmensport
08-28-2020, 10:24 AM
I just did a Google search for your camper year and model, just a random Google search, and hit several dealerships with your camper.

Here are some of the prices listed. I'm not specifying if these are new or used units and I'm not negotiating a reduced price or horse trading for a better deal. This is the list price on some:

19,995
23,858
20,499
19,995 (Make an offer)

And many, many of them won't even put a price on their web site.

His price appears to be spot-on with what a dealership would be selling for. HOWEVER... he is NOT a dealer and cannot offer all the incentives a dealer could provide either. Personally, I think HIS price is too high. Selling private to private, I would expect somewhere around 15,000 and 16,000 for a one year old trailer that originally sold for around $22,000, regardless of how much it was used or not used.

The selling price is in the eye of the beholder. He's attempting to pay off an upside-down loan at your expense. The camper may be good, may be even perfect. But only YOU can decide if that price is too much or not for YOU.

If you could haggle the price down about 3 or 4 thousand $$$'s, you might have something there. Be willing to walk if he won't come down to your price. I know, that's hard when you have your heart set on something. But come back the next day and ask if he's reconsidered your offer? He may just take it the second time.

Good luck!

Kidsmakeyoucrazy
08-28-2020, 10:40 AM
I just did a Google search for your camper year and model, just a random Google search, and hit several dealerships with your camper.

Here are some of the prices listed. I'm not specifying if these are new or used units and I'm not negotiating a reduced price or horse trading for a better deal. This is the list price on some:

19,995
23,858
20,499
19,995 (Make an offer)

And many, many of them won't even put a price on their web site.

His price appears to be spot-on with what a dealership would be selling for. HOWEVER... he is NOT a dealer and cannot offer all the incentives a dealer could provide either. Personally, I think HIS price is too high. Selling private to private, I would expect somewhere around 15,000 and 16,000 for a one year old trailer that originally sold for around $22,000, regardless of how much it was used or not used.

The selling price is in the eye of the beholder. He's attempting to pay off an upside-down loan at your expense. The camper may be good, may be even perfect. But only YOU can decide if that price is too much or not for YOU.

If you could haggle the price down about 3 or 4 thousand $$$'s, you might have something there. Be willing to walk if he won't come down to your price. I know, that's hard when you have your heart set on something. But come back the next day and ask if he's reconsidered your offer? He may just take it the second time.

Good luck!
Now that I have some more info I think I'm in a better position to haggle. I do know that there is no loan on the trailer and he has title in hand.

sourdough
08-28-2020, 11:09 AM
Now that I have some more info I think I'm in a better position to haggle. I do know that there is no loan on the trailer and he has title in hand.



If you can buy a new one for 20-21 I would be all over that before I even thought about giving him 19. The dealer intangibles are worth too much IMO. When you consider new gets you a new warranty on the entire trailer and all appliances, a dealer that will service your unit if it becomes necessary AND know that you are their customer and treat you that way. May mean a lot and may not, but, to me I want that net in the event of the "Oh crap, what was that!" failure "somewhere under there".

If you want to haggle with him this is my take; he bought it for say 20 (maybe 19 or less); it's used (doesn't matter how much), it will have no warranty. With those facts in mind I would then offer him 15k at most and explain his other option is to trade it in and they will give him maybe 15k. See where that goes, but for me and another 5k......I'd have that new one parked outside tomorrow. Just think about all the adventures awaiting with a new trailer....the things to find....the things to fix....the things that fall off...the things that quit (it actually can be fun) :D Oh, that can happen on any of them. But with a new one you know every little nook and cranny from the day it was "owned" by someone. Good luck in your pursuit.

wiredgeorge
08-28-2020, 02:46 PM
Well... now that you have been examined by the weight police and the gurus giving you valuable spending tips, want to point out the trailer is a bunkhouse. Does the bedroom have sliding doors for privacy or curtains? There is also very little counter space. The curtain around the bunks will last about two days if you have kids. Other than that, if you can tow it and like the layout, go for it. I also know that the asking price folks are seeing for the same camper is an asking price. Trailer sales are hot right now so you may not find the deal of the century but you might try the haggle with the seller if you determine they are motivated get a good price and go camping!

Vet4jdc
08-28-2020, 02:49 PM
Offer 15k and negotiate. Used trailers drop in value substantially the day you drive it off the lot. Everyone here knows that's a fact.

Gegrad
08-28-2020, 05:33 PM
I will second some of the other comments on here. Offer him $15k and negotiate. If he says $16k ask for the hitch as well, you would still be in the good range. I definitely would not go above $16k, maaaybe 17k for everything given what others have posted about the values on that unit.

BrooksFam
08-29-2020, 01:56 AM
Well... now that you have been examined by the weight police and the gurus giving you valuable spending tips, want to point out the trailer is a bunkhouse. Does the bedroom have sliding doors for privacy or curtains? There is also very little counter space. The curtain around the bunks will last about two days if you have kids. Other than that, if you can tow it and like the layout, go for it. I also know that the asking price folks are seeing for the same camper is an asking price. Trailer sales are hot right now so you may not find the deal of the century but you might try the haggle with the seller if you determine they are motivated get a good price and go camping!

Finally, a little more positive reply... ;)

wiredgeorge
08-29-2020, 04:38 AM
Finally, a little more positive reply...… ;)


Ahhh the prophets of doom speak! I would just like to say that EVERY camper is a series of compromises; no truly perfect layout.

A hobby can get to be your passion and you will start modifying and upgrading and it you will start spending a bit once hooked.

You have to LEARN what works and what you can ACCEPT. I will tell you this: I have a 2002 Cougar and see a lot less problems than many of the folks who buy new campers. Is my camper made better or have the problems been sorted out over the years? Probably some of both so don't think buying a near-new camper will get you out of the fix-up business. Campers are just like houses, you buy one and have a handy man hobby. Most of the stuff is no big deal so just keep up with it and enjoy camping with the clan.

flybouy
08-29-2020, 05:50 AM
Finally, a little more positive reply... ;)

I didn't see any "negative" replies. When someone asks for opinions and then get them then I don't see that as a "positive" or a "negative". If everyone replied with a "attaboy that's great" response it not only would be very boring it would also be a disservice to the OP in my opinion.

Kidsmakeyoucrazy
08-30-2020, 10:56 AM
I get the weight thing. Lots of ifs involved but in theory I might exceed max tongue by a few pounds if the trailer is loaded to max gvwr. That can be solved with a tongue scale and weight distribution in the trailer. Payload and towing capacity shouldn't be an issue. I've never owned one but I pulled the various ones my dad had for 30 years.so I'm familiar with that aspect. I got a few out the door prices for a new one. All are over 25k. Going to offer 16 and see what happens if everything checks out. He said the hitch is included.

This model and a Coleman are the only ones I've seen that check all the boxes. Layout I like, gvwr I'm comfortable with and within my budget.. Everything is a compromise but those were my must haves.

wiredgeorge
08-30-2020, 11:36 AM
Kidsmakeyoucrazy: You wrote: "That can be solved with a tongue scale and weight distribution in the trailer. Payload and towing capacity shouldn't be an issue." If you haven't read what folks who have actually owned a few trailers have said, just go ahead and be happy, if not safe. Good luck and God bless you!

Kidsmakeyoucrazy
08-30-2020, 12:52 PM
Kidsmakeyoucrazy: You wrote: "That can be solved with a tongue scale and weight distribution in the trailer. Payload and towing capacity shouldn't be an issue." If you haven't read what folks who have actually owned a few trailers have said, just go ahead and be happy, if not safe. Good luck and God bless you!
I have read it but apparently you didn't read or understand my reply. Just got back from looking at it fresh off a trip to the beach. Tongue weight with all the stuff a family would take was 720lbs. Theoretical are meaningless. Even loaded actual is less than listed...how do you explain that...i can give you a hint if you'd like...

I'm sort of happy this devolved into a theoretical argument. Calibrated scales don't lie.

flybouy
08-30-2020, 01:17 PM
I have read it but apparently you didn't read or understand my reply. Just got back from looking at it fresh off a trip to the beach. Tongue weight with all the stuff a family would take was 720lbs. Theoretical are meaningless. Even loaded actual is less than listed...how do you explain that...i can give you a hint if you'd like...

I'm sort of happy this devolved into a theoretical argument. Calibrated scales don't lie.

2016 F-150 SuperCrew V8 with the towing package. 10,100# max towing capacity. 1997 max cargo, 1,100 max tongue weight. Trailer dry weight is 6069, GVWR is 7,780 and tongue is listed at 780#. I should be good as long as I don't try to haul the whole house with me. I haven't seen this model trailer locally for less than $22k used but I guess it depends on the market.

The only way for the tongue weight to be reduced when a trailer is loaded is for the weight to be distributed incorrectly. To prevent sway and other handling issues the tongue weight should be around 13% (10-15% range). So what was the trailer scale weight?

Kidsmakeyoucrazy
08-30-2020, 01:42 PM
Have fun making excuses for why you aren't wrong. Even fully loaded 10pct would only be 768lbs and you said yourself its 10 to 15. So do you use your guess, th manufacturer guess or an actual weight? And no im not going to run it through a scale house every time I pull out. Have fun. Im done with this. Btw actual empty is 610. He reweighted it once he emptied it out.

JRTJH
08-30-2020, 02:26 PM
The OP is "satisfied he has all the information he needs and the thread comments are deteriorating, so thread is being closed...