Towing Toy hauler questions.

[Talleyman66]

I have a 2018 Ram 2500, mega cab, short bed, diesel engine. 1609 lbs max payload. 16909 lbs max towing. 6500 lbs gawr rear. I have been trying to gather information on towing a 5th wheel toy hauler as far as how much total weight and how much pin weight. I have read to not exceed max payload and I have read to not exceed gawr. Here are the specs for the 5th wheel I am looking to purchase.

Length 39.25 ft. (471 in.)
Width 8.5 ft. (102 in.)
Height 13.42 ft. (161 in.)
Interior Height 6.33 ft. (76 in.)
Weight
Dry Weight 10,762 lbs.
Payload Capacity 3,274 lbs.
GVWR 14,036 lbs.
Hitch Weight 2,036 lbs..

Will my vehicle pull this safely? Any advice is appreciated. I am trying to gather as much info that I can so I can make a semi educated decision.

Thank You

[tech740]

I have a 2018 Ram 2500, mega cab, short bed, diesel engine. 1609 lbs max payload. 16909 lbs max towing. 6500 lbs gawr rear. I have been trying to gather information on towing a 5th wheel toy hauler as far as how much total weight and how much pin weight. I have read to not exceed max payload and I have read to not exceed gawr. Here are the specs for the 5th wheel I am looking to purchase.

Length 39.25 ft. (471 in.)
Width 8.5 ft. (102 in.)
Height 13.42 ft. (161 in.)
Interior Height 6.33 ft. (76 in.)
Weight
Dry Weight 10,762 lbs.
Payload Capacity 3,274 lbs.
GVWR 14,036 lbs.
Hitch Weight 2,036 lbs..

Will my vehicle pull this safely? Any advice is appreciated. I am trying to gather as much info that I can so I can make a semi educated decision.

Thank You

Welcome to the forum. Nice to see you asking before you buy. The short answer is that is way to much trailer for that truck. The max payload for the truck of 1609 is how much weight you can carry with the truck. That includes passengers, cargo, hitch, and any options installed in or on the truck since it left the factory. When you figure out weights go off the GVWR of the trailer and figure about 20-25% for the actual hitch weight. In this case 2800-3500 hitch weight. So a truck that should carry that trailer would have a payload of at least 4,000lbs. Most likely a dually, but very top end of a single rear wheel.

[sourdough]

You need to look no further than that 1609 payload. That is actually low for a 1/2 ton. Max tow means nothing; purely a sales ploy and you don't own that "one off" truck. Your truck can't possible "carry" the weight of that trailer. Will the diesel pull it? Yes. Safely? No.

You have a sticker on your truck that gives gawr for front and rear. You need to know that.

At a 14k gvw, at 20% pin weight, you are at 2800 lbs. before you do anything vs a 1600 lb. payload. You need to be looking at a small travel trailer.

As an example; I had a 3/4 ton Ram, 3190 payload and pulled a 92-9300 lb. trailer. I was comfortable but didn't want anymore weight to be safe. Look at that vs what you are talking about. Another example: I have the truck and trailer in my signature. A 1 ton just shy of 4k payload and a trailer that will weigh less than what you are looking at - that's all it can carry.

In your situation, with a 1600 lb. payload, I would be looking at a bumper pull in the 7k gvw range. Nothing like 14k...that's just shouldn't happen by any stretch of the imagination.

[notanlines]

Tally, you've been given good info here from both Danny and RJ. The pin weight will approach 3000-3300 pounds when all is said and done. By the way, 5th wheels usually use the term 'pin weight,' and bumper pulls use the term 'hitch weight.' It kind of keeps conversations going in the same direction without you having to explain what you have.
Your RAM will pull the socks off a rooster, no doubt. Towing is not a problem torque-wise. Your truck simply shouldn't HAUL the kind of weight yours will see with that RV. Towing is what's behind your hitch, and haul is the weight in your truck and bed.
I also suggest a nice toy hauler travel trailer. Try to stay under 7-8K if you can.
And good on ya for asking BEFORE you buy!

[chuckster57]

39 foot and dry weight of 10,700? I’d like to see the data sticker on that.

[Pull Toy]

Welcome to the board from Southeastern Connecticut!!

All of the above is excellent advise. Please follow it for your safety, and everybody else's, and thanks for asking first. You will have many enjoyable adventures ahead of you, if you are comfortable with your choices.

As a rule of thumb, dry weight is a useless figure. It doesn't have batteries, LPG tanks, spare tire, or any tools etc. Always use Gross weight and work down from there, for the trailer. It's amazing how fast the weight goes up when you add even things like the 40# bag of dog food.

Next critical figure is the GVRW of the tow vehicle. This includes your tow vehicle when ready to roll. Mom, Dad, kids, dog, pin weight, snacks, full tank of fuel... etc

Now we need to figure Gross Combined VW. I know it can seem overwhelming, but there is a major knowledge base here, and we're all willing to help.

Good Luck,

[wiredgeorge]

I have a 2018 Ram 2500, mega cab, short bed, diesel engine. 1609 lbs max payload. 16909 lbs max towing. 6500 lbs gawr rear. I have been trying to gather information on towing a 5th wheel toy hauler as far as how much total weight and how much pin weight. I have read to not exceed max payload and I have read to not exceed gawr. Here are the specs for the 5th wheel I am looking to purchase.

Length 39.25 ft. (471 in.)
Width 8.5 ft. (102 in.)
Height 13.42 ft. (161 in.)
Interior Height 6.33 ft. (76 in.)
Weight
Dry Weight 10,762 lbs.
Payload Capacity 3,274 lbs.
GVWR 14,036 lbs.
Hitch Weight 2,036 lbs..

Will my vehicle pull this safely? Any advice is appreciated. I am trying to gather as much info that I can so I can make a semi educated decision.

Thank You


Talleyman66, That payload you cited doesn't seem like much for a 3/4 ton truck. Where did you get this number from. Actual payload number can be seen on the yellow sticker in the door frame and says something like, "the combined weight of occupants and cargo" and lists payload in both KG and LBS. The payload you mentioned sounds like a half ton.

[rhagfo]

Talleyman66, That payload you cited doesn't seem like much for a 3/4 ton truck. Where did you get this number from. Actual payload number can be seen on the yellow sticker in the door frame and says something like, "the combined weight of occupants and cargo" and lists payload in both KG and LBS. The payload you mentioned sounds like a half ton.

Well a loaded Mega Cab Diesel could weigh 8,391# with a 150# driver and full tank of fuel. That truck only has a 10,000# GVWR.

[xrated]

You need to look no further than that 1609 payload. That is actually low for a 1/2 ton. Max tow means nothing; purely a sales ploy and you don't own that "one off" truck. Your truck can't possible "carry" the weight of that trailer. Will the diesel pull it? Yes. Safely? No.

You have a sticker on your truck that gives gawr for front and rear. You need to know that.

At a 14k gvw, at 20% pin weight, you are at 2800 lbs. before you do anything vs a 1600 lb. payload. You need to be looking at a small travel trailer.

As an example; I had a 3/4 ton Ram, 3190 payload and pulled a 92-9300 lb. trailer. I was comfortable but didn't want anymore weight to be safe. Look at that vs what you are talking about. Another example: I have the truck and trailer in my signature. A 1 ton just shy of 4k payload and a trailer that will weigh less than what you are looking at - that's all it can carry.

In your situation, with a 1600 lb. payload, I would be looking at a bumper pull in the 7k gvw range. Nothing like 14k...that's just shouldn't happen by any stretch of the imagination.

I agree......even if the trailer is totally empty, as in the dry weight number, that, in and of itself will overload the truck. No reason to go any further.

[rhagfo]

You need to look no further than that 1609 payload. That is actually low for a 1/2 ton. Max tow means nothing; purely a sales ploy and you don't own that "one off" truck. Your truck can't possible "carry" the weight of that trailer. Will the diesel pull it? Yes. Safely? No.

You have a sticker on your truck that gives gawr for front and rear. You need to know that.

At a 14k gvw, at 20% pin weight, you are at 2800 lbs. before you do anything vs a 1600 lb. payload. You need to be looking at a small travel trailer.

As an example; I had a 3/4 ton Ram, 3190 payload and pulled a 92-9300 lb. trailer. I was comfortable but didn't want anymore weight to be safe. Look at that vs what you are talking about. Another example: I have the truck and trailer in my signature. A 1 ton just shy of 4k payload and a trailer that will weigh less than what you are looking at - that's all it can carry.

In your situation, with a 1600 lb. payload, I would be looking at a bumper pull in the 7k gvw range. Nothing like 14k...that's just shouldn't happen by any stretch of the imagination.

I agree......even if the trailer is totally empty, as in the dry weight number, that, in and of itself will overload the truck. No reason to go any further.

LOL!
Are you two sure you did the math correctly??? :D

[xrated]

LOL!
Are you two sure you did the math correctly??? :D

Uhh, Yep! I even took my shoes off for the calculation! :D

[wiredgeorge]

Talleyman66 hasn't returned since last evening. Hope we didn't scare him off. I think it is sad that a 3/4 ton truck has about as much payload as a 1/2 ton. Why buy it?

[rhagfo]

Talleyman66 hasn't returned since last evening. Hope we didn't scare him off. I think it is sad that a 3/4 ton truck has about as much payload as a 1/2 ton. Why buy it?

Because it is rated to TOW 16,909#! :facepalm:

[Talleyman66]

I was hoping I was wrong about all the info I was gathering. Is there any way I can make my vehicle have more load capacity? (Grasping for straws) Changing springs, adding air bags etc....... Thanks

[sourdough]

I am very sorry about your situation. It happens far too often. I bought my first full size travel trailer in 1985 and dropped it on a 1985 Ford single cab, long bed F150. Nary a thought of weight came to mind; it was a truck...that was a trailer...trucks pulled trailers. And away I went. Never mind the squirreling all over the road, trying to make the wdh hitch do things it couldn't do, adding all the sway control I could get to no avail...I just kept towing - and having a pretty good time of it. Did that for several years.

Camped in a campground one day and this gentleman and I struck a conversation and during that I mentioned all the issues I was having with towing. He looked at the truck, looked at the trailer and hitch and just said - you don't have enough truck. I'm thinking what? it's a truck for crying out loud. Then I began to learn about "trucks", trailers and weights.

To your question; no, there isn't any way to increase that payload or the ability of that truck to "carry" anymore weight than the sticker says is allowed. There will be another sticker that will give you the max gawr for front and rear that is worth knowing along with gvwr and gcvwr. I mentioned in an earlier post about what you could look at weight wise (gvw) in an rv. I know it is absolutely not what you wanted to hear nor expected. Many members, including myself, have experienced that revelation, and disappointment when confronted with numbers that won't work.

I know you are "grasping at straws" but there is no way to safely put a trailer of the size you mentioned on that truck. The payload of your truck is less than many of the newer 1/2 tons. As you try to figure out what to get to make the numbers work don't hesitate to ask questions - we all feel your pain.

[JRTJH]

There is only one way that I know of to increase the GVW of that truck to something that can safely tow the trailer you're looking at...

That one way is to remove the license plate and put it on the rear of a heavier duty truck with the capacity to do the job you're expecting it to do... Your current truck simply can't tow a trailer of that size and there's no "cheap way" to modify it to make it do what you need it to do.... IMO, trying to modify it "properly" so it has that kind of capability would cost more than just buying a new truck.

[Talleyman66]

With a tow behind trailer, do I still go by the max capacity of 1609 or is there a different formula for towing with the receiver hitch? If I use a weight distribution hitch, how does that effect the tongue weight of trailer? I have attached a pic of the other sticker from my vehicle. How can i use that information for determining how much I can tow? Thank you again guys for all the information you are providing.

[tech740]

Same formula but 10-15% hitch weight instead of the higher pin weight. The hitch is sully 100 lbs so you 1609 goes a little further. One thing to consider is if you compromise on the trailer now you will buy a larger truck soon then buy the trailer you wanted in the first place. (Experience speaking) If at all possible change the truck now and get the trailer you want. You will be happier in the long run.

[travelin texans]

With a tow behind trailer, do I still go by the max capacity of 1609 or is there a different formula for towing with the receiver hitch? If I use a weight distribution hitch, how does that effect the tongue weight of trailer? I have attached a pic of the other sticker from my vehicle. How can i use that information for determining how much I can tow? Thank you again guys for all the information you are providing.

With YOUR truck you're limited to about a 7000lb GVWR travel trailer, no 5th wheels. Even with the 7k TT you'll use half of your 1600lb payload on the tongue weight then add 100lb hitch plus whatever else is in/on that truck that it didn't have from the factory.
Sorry this isn't what you hoped to hear & unfortunately you are not the first nor will you be the last to fall into this mess after listening to salespeople, reading misleading literature & advertising about truck max tow weights & RV dry weights, both mean nothing when towing RVs. Not ALL trucks are designed/built to haul heavy long tall RVs regardless of what they've shown hauling in the advertisements.

[kfxgreenie]

I was hoping I was wrong about all the info I was gathering. Is there any way I can make my vehicle have more load capacity? (Grasping for straws) Changing springs, adding air bags etc....... Thanks

The loaded mega cab is killing you, but ultimately it is up to you to decide if you want to take the risk and run at the RAWR. People are negligent every day just take a drive down the road, see how many people you see doing the speed limit. Even at RAWR the mega cab is still a thorn.:popcorn:

[flybouy]

Here’s how it works, trucks have a rating based on frame, spring rates, brake size, steering components, etc. That rating is based on a single cab, bare bones model. That’s the MAXIMUM capacity for that line, 1,500 or 2,500, etc.

Now as they stretch it to a quad cab, add the extra seat, doors, windows, etc. the weight of all that comes OFF the max number. Add leather, carpet, power windows, power seats, power mirrors, 4 wheel drive components or ANYTHING ELSE it comes off that original max number.

So, if you want all the “glitter and gee whiz gizmos” and want to haul more weight than you have to go up another size. You can’t have your cake and eat it to.

[sourdough]

With a tow behind trailer, do I still go by the max capacity of 1609 or is there a different formula for towing with the receiver hitch? If I use a weight distribution hitch, how does that effect the tongue weight of trailer? I have attached a pic of the other sticker from my vehicle. How can i use that information for determining how much I can tow? Thank you again guys for all the information you are providing.



As has been stated the mega cab, along with the diesel, really cut back on your carrying capacity because both add lots of weight to the truck which then deducts from whatever that payload would have been resulting in the 1609 you have left.

Bumper pull vs 5th wheel uses the same payload on the truck. The benefit of a bumper pull is a lighter load on the truck; approx. 12-13% of trailer gvw for the tongue weight vs approx. 20% (or a little more) for the pin weight of a 5th wheel. Example: a 10,000 lb. gvw bumper pull would put a tongue weight of approx. 12-1300lbs. on your truck (coming off your 1609 payload); a 5th wheel pin would place approx. 2000lbs + pin weight on the truck. To each you have to add the weight of the type of hitch you place in/on the truck. A bumper pull wdh w/sway control will run approx. 125lbs. A 5th wheel hitch can run from 45 - 400lbs. depending on what you select - all of those come off the payload as well. Remember that in addition the trailer and hitch the weights of all the family, pets, tools, jacks, blocks, ice chests etc. etc. - ANYTHING placed in the truck comes off the payload as well.

As far as using the info on that sticker here is a link to a chart that provides some generic information;

https://www.ramtrucks.com/content/dam/fca-brands/na/ramtrucks/en_us/towing/2018%20Ram%202500.pdf

Your info is on page 4. Remember that this is a "generic" chart; your specific numbers are on that sticker and actual axle weights for "your" truck would have to come from a scale but they get you in the ballpark.

[B-O-B'03]

Talleyman66, That payload you cited doesn't seem like much for a 3/4 ton truck. Where did you get this number from. Actual payload number can be seen on the yellow sticker in the door frame and says something like, "the combined weight of occupants and cargo" and lists payload in both KG and LBS. The payload you mentioned sounds like a half ton.

I was thinking the same thing, our F150 Platinum SCREW has a 1400 pound payload, scientists are puzzled.

-Brian

[Kebees42]

With the diesel you lose about a thousand lbs of payload. I have a 2020 ram 2500 with gas and payload is 3070. With the diesel you need a one ton to make up for the weight of the drive train.

[LewisB]

I was hoping I was wrong about all the info I was gathering. Is there any way I can make my vehicle have more load capacity? (Grasping for straws) Changing springs, adding air bags etc....... Thanks

I don't think anyone has mentioned legality issue, so I'll throw that into the discussion. The stickers on your vehicle will NEVER change regardless of any modifications you make. Even if you remove the stickers, you're stuck with the VIN and those limits. Yes, you could add a lot of after-market modifications that might seem to make your truck more capable. However, if you are ever in an accident (especially one where there is loss of life), it will be easy to determine that your vehicle was significantly over-loaded (based on the factory design specifications for your VIN). Since you are over-loaded, you will likely be found to be responsible for the entire accident and consequences. JMHO

You are being very wise to ask all these questions ahead of time - good job!

[JJaxon]

I was in this very situation about a year ago. I had a 17' Ram 2500 crew 4x4 diesel, great truck, and payload was the same as yours, far below what I needed for 5th wheel rv. So I traded to a 19' Ram 3500, same everything except a long bed. I found after looking at a hundred trucks that every truck has a different payload sticker, even when equipped the same. I found a single rear wheel 3500 diesel with 4200 lbs payload and crossed 3 states to buy it. No regrets. If you want a 5th wheel toy hauler, get the most truck able to pull it safely. 1st thing I asked when I found the equipped truck I wanted was text me a pick of the payload decal. Sales people are puzzled, so I explained it. Most had no clue, and didnt care about my safety, only my wallet.

[sourdough]

I was in this very situation about a year ago. I had a 17' Ram 2500 crew 4x4 diesel, great truck, and payload was the same as yours, far below what I needed for 5th wheel rv. So I traded to a 19' Ram 3500, same everything except a long bed. I found after looking at a hundred trucks that every truck has a different payload sticker, even when equipped the same. I found a single rear wheel 3500 diesel with 4200 lbs payload and crossed 3 states to buy it. No regrets. If you want a 5th wheel toy hauler, get the most truck able to pull it safely. 1st thing I asked when I found the equipped truck I wanted was text me a pick of the payload decal. Sales people are puzzled, so I explained it. Most had no clue, and didnt care about my safety, only my wallet.



I went through the same exercise and bought the current truck in FL vs TX because what I wanted just couldn't be found. Did the same thing on the door sticker AND the trailer sticker. The salesmen on either end didn't know why I would need them and more importantly, care. When explaining to both of them what I was looking at; truck and trailer, they BOTH said "oh, a 3500? You won't have an issue pulling anything." Neither had any in depth understanding of weights or towing but the WALLET is definitely a big factor for them so buyer beware and do your own homework instead of listening to a salesman.

[xrated]

I went through the same exercise and bought the current truck in FL vs TX because what I wanted just couldn't be found. Did the same thing on the door sticker AND the trailer sticker. The salesmen on either end didn't know why I would need them and more importantly, care. When explaining to both of them what I was looking at; truck and trailer, they BOTH said "oh, a 3500? You won't have an issue pulling anything." Neither had any in depth understanding of weights or towing but the WALLET is definitely a big factor for them so buyer beware and do your own homework instead of listening to a salesman.

So true ^^^^ Most of them don't know the difference between Payload and a Payday candy bar. I just sayin'

[MikeRP]

Ok I will be the lone dissenter. Your truck will tow that trailer no question. You will need to put a good set of air bags on the rear. Weigh your truck at a cat scale and stay under your tire ratings. Air Lift makes a nice set with bump stops in case if failure.

Also don’t carry 3000+ lbs of gear. Stay around 14,000 lbs gross loaded and you’ll be fine. If you need to go to 16,000 lbs then you’ll need to look at 295/70R18’s with 4080 lbs capacity each. I use these tires.

No need to put $35,000 in a new truck so the sticker looks better in my humble opinion.

I respect everyone’s opinion here but the 2018 Ram is a super competent vehicle in this load range. With the tow hauler you’ll also be able to manage the pin weight with your toys.

In my opinion, do these simple steps a hook er and go.

No flames please, I won’t respond. I’ve given my opinion much the same as you all. In addition you'll still be able to add a Aux fuel tank and you will need a slider type hitch or an authorized gooseneck. There are some others also.

Peace

[sourdough]

Ok I will be the lone dissenter. Your truck will tow that trailer no question. You will need to put a good set of air bags on the rear. Weigh your truck at a cat scale and stay under your tire ratings. Air Lift makes a nice set with bump stops in case if failure.

Also don’t carry 3000+ lbs of gear. Stay around 14,000 lbs gross loaded and you’ll be fine. If you need to go to 16,000 lbs then you’ll need to look at 295/70R18’s with 4080 lbs capacity each. I use these tires.

No need to put $35,000 in a new truck so the sticker looks better in my humble opinion.

I respect everyone’s opinion here but the 2018 Ram is a super competent vehicle in this load range. With the tow hauler you’ll also be able to manage the pin weight with your toys.

In my opinion, do these simple steps a hook er and go.

No flames please, I won’t respond. I’ve given my opinion much the same as you all. In addition you'll still be able to add a Aux fuel tank and you will need a slider type hitch or an authorized gooseneck. There are some others also.

Peace



No flaming here and don't care if you respond but your comments require a knowledgeable response. There is a reason you are the lone dissenter.

I had a 3/4 Ram as does the OP. My payload was 3190 vs his 1609. My new trailer has a gvw of just a tad more than his. There was NO way, repeat none, that I was putting this trailer on my 3/4 ton with almost double the payload of his. That's real life and staying safe. Previous comments have been spot on. Adding air bags and new tires don't, and won't, make you safe, legal or strengthen the running gear of the truck.

Load to 14k and he'll be OK? GVW of the trailer is 14k so you recommend loading to gvw or over just like the truck? What about gawr or gcwr - I'm sure they don't matter. Then you say if he wants to load the trailer on up to 16k just get even bigger tires (2k over the trailer gvw)? That advice is wrong on so many levels. You don't buy a new, bigger truck to tow a bigger RV to make "the sticker look better", you buy it to keep you, your family and others on the road safe....and keep you out of jail or from becoming destitute.

[LewisB]

Ok I will be the lone dissenter. Your truck will tow that trailer no question. You will need to put a good set of air bags on the rear. Weigh your truck at a cat scale and stay under your tire ratings. Air Lift makes a nice set with bump stops in case if failure.

Also don’t carry 3000+ lbs of gear. Stay around 14,000 lbs gross loaded and you’ll be fine. If you need to go to 16,000 lbs then you’ll need to look at 295/70R18’s with 4080 lbs capacity each. I use these tires.

No need to put $35,000 in a new truck so the sticker looks better in my humble opinion.

I respect everyone’s opinion here but the 2018 Ram is a super competent vehicle in this load range. With the tow hauler you’ll also be able to manage the pin weight with your toys.

In my opinion, do these simple steps a hook er and go.

No flames please, I won’t respond. I’ve given my opinion much the same as you all. In addition you'll still be able to add a Aux fuel tank and you will need a slider type hitch or an authorized gooseneck. There are some others also.

Peace

Wow! If you ever wanted an example of misguided forum posting, there it is. The OP (original poster) questioned if it was ok to purchase a trailer with a pin weight that exceed the total payload of his tow vehicle by 400 pounds. This guy's opinion was that was "good to go" and then recommends he also add a slider hitch and auxiliary fuel tank to this already overloaded truck...

...Flames don't work on ignorance.

[travelin texans]

Ok I will be the lone dissenter. Your truck will tow that trailer no question. You will need to put a good set of air bags on the rear. Weigh your truck at a cat scale and stay under your tire ratings. Air Lift makes a nice set with bump stops in case if failure.

Also don’t carry 3000+ lbs of gear. Stay around 14,000 lbs gross loaded and you’ll be fine. If you need to go to 16,000 lbs then you’ll need to look at 295/70R18’s with 4080 lbs capacity each. I use these tires.

No need to put $35,000 in a new truck so the sticker looks better in my humble opinion.

I respect everyone’s opinion here but the 2018 Ram is a super competent vehicle in this load range. With the tow hauler you’ll also be able to manage the pin weight with your toys.

In my opinion, do these simple steps a hook er and go.

No flames please, I won’t respond. I’ve given my opinion much the same as you all. In addition you'll still be able to add a Aux fuel tank and you will need a slider type hitch or an authorized gooseneck. There are some others also.

Peace

You must be a RV salesman???? Can you say "it'll tow anything on our lot"?
This is the same very POOR, lack of any kind of towing knowledge advice you'll get from most every RV or truck salesman that's only objective is making a sale, PERIOD.
PLEASE! Any & all newbies reading this DO NOT take any part of this advice as useful, it's total BS, its towing usafe & it'll only get you in a bind at some point.
There's nothing you can do to any truck to increase it's weight carrying abilities other than getting MORE truck. Airbags or springs won't do it & adding a 200-300lb hitch with another 50+ gallons of fuel sure ain't gonna help.

[MikeRP]

Well I’m not calling anyone irresponsible, ignorant, or unknowledgeable. I’m none of these. In fact, if he has the money and wishes to expend it, I would certainly recommend a 3500/350. Matter fact I rarely ever recommend buying a 2500. But that doesn’t take away from the his truck’s core capability.

I don’t recommend someone use scarce funding that may be needed for other things for his family.

For less than $2500 his truck will be fine. No truck is static. They charge their capacity as options are added/taken away. Everyone wants to point out lawsuits and the like but in fact lawyers can make cases either way. We all know that but rarely listen to the other side.

These are my opinions, I respect your opinions. Please respect mine.

Peace.

[flybouy]

Well I’m not calling anyone irresponsible, ignorant, or unknowledgeable. I’m none of these. In fact, if he has the money and wishes to expend it, I would certainly recommend a 3500/350. Matter fact I rarely ever recommend buying a 2500. But that doesn’t take away from the his truck’s core capability.

I don’t recommend someone use scarce funding that may be needed for other things for his family.

For less than $2500 his truck will be fine. No truck is static. They charge their capacity as options are added/taken away. Everyone wants to point out lawsuits and the like but in fact lawyers can make cases either way. We all know that but rarely listen to the other side.

These are my opinions, I respect your opinions. Please respect mine.

Peace.
It's OK to opine but facts are facts. The FACT is his truck will be overloaded and your opinion on adding larger tires and yet overloading it further is FACTUALLY incorrect and therefore inconsistent with the undisputed facts. You may disagree with those facts but they do remain the reality. To recommend otherwise in my opinion is irresponsible.

[MikeRP]

Also we often forget safety.

Assured clear distance. Practicing driving the Coach even when it’s not hooked up.

Speed limits. 65 - 67 are my limits.

Proper maintenance in tires, hitch truck etc.

Driving while sleepy.

Stopping to take frequent walks.

Planning the route.

Weather emergencies.

Tire pressure temperature monitoring. Tire age etc.

I’m sure we can all think of more.

Any of these are as important as a properly setup truck. GVWR does not mean the truck can’t be setup properly. My 2018 3500 with a 3825 lb payload is no more capable than his truck properly setup. Once we grapple with that 10,000lbs is an artificial GVWR, we can start to grapple with what’s really important to be truly safe in my opinion.

Peace

[flybouy]

" that 10,000lbs is an artificial GVWR, " Misinformation yet again. It's not artificial, it's a limitation provided by the manufacturer in accordance with a Federal law that states it must be displayed on the vehicle. I don't understand how you can discredit that. When you start certifying vehicles then you can claim what you like.

[sourdough]

Also we often forget safety.

Assured clear distance. Practicing driving the Coach even when it’s not hooked up.

Speed limits. 65 - 67 are my limits.

Proper maintenance in tires, hitch truck etc.

Driving while sleepy.

Stopping to take frequent walks.

Planning the route.

Weather emergencies.

Tire pressure temperature monitoring. Tire age etc.

I’m sure we can all think of more.

Any of these are as important as a properly setup truck. GVWR does not mean the truck can’t be setup properly. My 2018 3500 with a 3825 lb payload is no more capable than his truck properly setup. Once we grapple with that 10,000lbs is an artificial GVWR, we can start to grapple with what’s really important to be truly safe in my opinion.

Peace



I'm thinking you don't get it. There ARE differences between the 2500 and 3500 beyond the "sticker". RAWR is the beginning then suspension and drivetrain. I know there is a small group of folks that think a "truck" is a "truck" and they're all the same....just add an air bag, bigger tires etc. That is just factually and technically wrong. It may be your opinion but it is beyond irresponsible to advocate something like that to someone unknowledgeable looking for good, sound advice - it is not.

[xrated]

Ok I will be the lone dissenter. Your truck will tow that trailer no question. You will need to put a good set of air bags on the rear. Weigh your truck at a cat scale and stay under your tire ratings. Air Lift makes a nice set with bump stops in case if failure.

Also don’t carry 3000+ lbs of gear. Stay around 14,000 lbs gross loaded and you’ll be fine. If you need to go to 16,000 lbs then you’ll need to look at 295/70R18’s with 4080 lbs capacity each. I use these tires.

No need to put $35,000 in a new truck so the sticker looks better in my humble opinion.

I respect everyone’s opinion here but the 2018 Ram is a super competent vehicle in this load range. With the tow hauler you’ll also be able to manage the pin weight with your toys.

In my opinion, do these simple steps a hook er and go.

No flames please, I won’t respond. I’ve given my opinion much the same as you all. In addition you'll still be able to add a Aux fuel tank and you will need a slider type hitch or an authorized gooseneck. There are some others also.

Peace

You are either trolling.....or simply do not have a clue! I'm not sure which, but as some of the others above my post have pointed out your bad or misinformed or irresponsible information, I'll just let it go with what they have already written. WOW!

[wiredgeorge]

Mike sat on the shore with his fishing poll and shiny lure and cast into the lake. He pulled out quite a number of guppies! Mike, you can't be serious? :angel:

[sourdough]

Mike sat on the shore with his fishing poll and shiny lure and cast into the lake. He pulled out quite a number of guppies! Mike, you can't be serious? :angel:


Not particularly guppies, just folks that recognize things for what they are but can't let irrational remarks go unchallenged when we have so many new and novice RV owners that don't know different. :)

[ACE123]

You might consider looking at the smaller toyhaulers, my FZ 260, has a GVWR of 11300#, I typically run with 12-1400# tongue weight on my F250 with 2180 payload capacity. I’m pretty close on maxing that out when loaded up (wife, dogs and all) but still within my limits. Toyhaulers do have the advantage of being able to adjust how you load to control tongue weights. I use a tongue weight scale each time I hookup to make sure I’m ok, not doing so can get you in trouble even when the TH has no toys Loaded ( light tongue weights are not so good sometimes )

[boonecamper]

My chevy 2500 (2020) has payload of 3045 lbs and GVWR of 11,350 and it is duramax
diesel. Maybe he needs another truck.

[xrated]

You might consider looking at the smaller toyhaulers, my FZ 260, has a GVWR of 11300#, I typically run with 12-1400# tongue weight on my F250 with 2180 payload capacity. I’m pretty close on maxing that out when loaded up (wife, dogs and all) but still within my limits. Toyhaulers do have the advantage of being able to adjust how you load to control tongue weights. I use a tongue weight scale each time I hookup to make sure I’m ok, not doing so can get you in trouble even when the TH has no toys Loaded ( light tongue weights are not so good sometimes )

Most Toy Haulers are "tongue" or "pin" heavy when they are not loaded. My previous T.H., a tow behind, weighed right at 9000 lbs empty. The tongue weight was 1340 lb when empty.

[MikeRP]

Ohh well frick........no I’m not a troller. I started on this forum recently looking at an Avalanche a friend of mine recently purchased. He matched it up with a 350 Ford.

I’m a long time member of Rv.net and Forest River Forums and iRV2 and many others. CCRVOC, FMCA.

Not that any of that makes me qualified. But I have spec’d many HD pieces of equipment including utility trucks, mining equipment, power generation, including being in charge of shops and the like and I am an engineer with a Class A CDL.

So we all have a difference of opinion.

What I don’t like to see is someone spend money unnecessarily. The GVWR on his trailer is only 14,000 lbs folks. How do we get to Yes?

No is easy.

That truck can be made just as capable as a 3500. The real rating on the axle is at least 10,500 lbs. He can look it up on his Ram build sheet. One of you accused me of being an Rv salesman and I wonder if you all are truck salesmen? Lol

Listen truth is his truck will be fine and more than capable of that load. You can’t prove me wrong. That sticker means nothing after it hits the owner. He will be as safe as my truck with that load. Every thing built by the big 3 manufacturers after 2012 are ridiculous in capability, way more than 14000 lbs! That driveline is nearly the same in a Srw 3500. Massively capable.

The Cummins and tranny are exceptional

So go back to basics.

1. Can his truck be modified to be capable? Yes
2. Cost?
3. Trade Cost?
4. Projected use.
5. Total cost of ownership.

Safety is this

1. A capable vehicle
2. Appropriate Speed
3. Equipment condition
4. Safe driving practices
5. Driver experience
6. Road conditions
7. Weather conditions
8. Equipment intelligence. Can the driver see if his tires, tranny etc is having an issue.
9. Practice
10. Defensive Driving
11. Route Planning
12. Inspection practices. How many of you are using an inspection checklist? And keeping it for record? Following all maintenance practices recommended?
13. Proper Loading practices from above and true!

Really I love all RVers. Making fun of an old engineer just makes him salty. So I say to the OP, Improvise, Adapt, Overcome. Learn, seek advice, learn some more and you’ll save a lot of money.

My opinions all above! but treated with a love of camping and people.

Peace.

Mike

[MikeRP]

My chevy 2500 (2020) has payload of 3045 lbs and GVWR of 11,350 and it is duramax
diesel. Maybe he needs another truck.

Hey his truck GVWR would be rated 11,700 lbs or maybe 12,300 lbs. I haven’t looked it up if it was a 3500.

You made part of my point. On the new trucks the manufacture’s are moving away from artificially limiting their 2500 trucks To 10,000 lbs. If he was looked at correctly, the truck would say at least a 3300 lb payload.

Peace

[ACE123]

Most Toy Haulers are "tongue" or "pin" heavy when they are not loaded. My previous T.H., a tow behind, weighed right at 9000 lbs empty. The tongue weight was 1340 lb when empty.

Absolutely correct, unloaded (no toys) and the tongue weight increases (by a fair amount) With the toys loaded we have to sometimes shift load forward as the tongue weight decreases (sometimes more than I like). It tends to be a bigger problem when we travel without the toys, balancing the tongue weight can be a challenge.

[LewisB]

Ohh well frick........no I’m not a troller...So we all have a difference of opinion...That sticker means nothing after it hits the owner...He will be as safe as my truck with that load..Can his truck be modified to be capable? Yes...So I say to the OP, Improvise, Adapt, Overcome. Learn, seek advice, learn some more and you’ll save a lot of money.
Mike

My dad used to say "sliced thick or thin, coated with honey or not - it is still baloney". This is a simple discussion in the end. You believe it is perfectly acceptable to overload a truck well beyond the manufacturer's GVWR in violation of federal law. I do not - nor will law enforcement.

Hopefully, the OP and others new to RV's will be able to differentiate between misguided opinion and the law.

[sourdough]

I think we had this same, silly, conversation about Ford 3/4 vs 1 ton trucks. When the rules, law, stickers etc. say one thing I would advise any prudent person from listening to anyone telling them it's all baloney if you just "tweak, modify, change" etc. etc. etc. and it "might" get close to that bigger truck you want to be....except legally. It's silliness, and dangerous.

Edit: and I've yet to see anyone tell us the suspension on a Ram 2500 is the same as a 3500....oh, add air bags?

[rhagfo]

Ok I will be the lone dissenter. Your truck will tow that trailer no question. You will need to put a good set of air bags on the rear. Weigh your truck at a cat scale and stay under your tire ratings. Air Lift makes a nice set with bump stops in case if failure.

Also don’t carry 3000+ lbs of gear. Stay around 14,000 lbs gross loaded and you’ll be fine. If you need to go to 16,000 lbs then you’ll need to look at 295/70R18’s with 4080 lbs capacity each. I use these tires.

No need to put $35,000 in a new truck so the sticker looks better in my humble opinion.

I respect everyone’s opinion here but the 2018 Ram is a super competent vehicle in this load range. With the tow hauler you’ll also be able to manage the pin weight with your toys.

In my opinion, do these simple steps a hook er and go.

No flames please, I won’t respond. I’ve given my opinion much the same as you all. In addition you'll still be able to add a Aux fuel tank and you will need a slider type hitch or an authorized gooseneck. There are some others also.

Peace

Ohh well frick........no I’m not a troller. I started on this forum recently looking at an Avalanche a friend of mine recently purchased. He matched it up with a 350 Ford.

I’m a long time member of Rv.net and Forest River Forums and iRV2 and many others. CCRVOC, FMCA.

Not that any of that makes me qualified. But I have spec’d many HD pieces of equipment including utility trucks, mining equipment, power generation, including being in charge of shops and the like and I am an engineer with a Class A CDL.

So we all have a difference of opinion.

What I don’t like to see is someone spend money unnecessarily. The GVWR on his trailer is only 14,000 lbs folks. How do we get to Yes?

No is easy.

That truck can be made just as capable as a 3500. The real rating on the axle is at least 10,500 lbs. He can look it up on his Ram build sheet. One of you accused me of being an Rv salesman and I wonder if you all are truck salesmen? Lol

Listen truth is his truck will be fine and more than capable of that load. You can’t prove me wrong. That sticker means nothing after it hits the owner. He will be as safe as my truck with that load. Every thing built by the big 3 manufacturers after 2012 are ridiculous in capability, way more than 14000 lbs! That driveline is nearly the same in a Srw 3500. Massively capable.

The Cummins and tranny are exceptional

So go back to basics.

1. Can his truck be modified to be capable? Yes NO
2. Cost?
3. Trade Cost?
4. Projected use.
5. Total cost of ownership.

Safety is this

1. A capable vehicle
2. Appropriate Speed
3. Equipment condition
4. Safe driving practices
5. Driver experience
6. Road conditions
7. Weather conditions
8. Equipment intelligence. Can the driver see if his tires, tranny etc is having an issue.
9. Practice
10. Defensive Driving
11. Route Planning
12. Inspection practices. How many of you are using an inspection checklist? And keeping it for record? Following all maintenance practices recommended?
13. Proper Loading practices from above and true!

Really I love all RVers. Making fun of an old engineer just makes him salty. So I say to the OP, Improvise, Adapt, Overcome. Learn, seek advice, learn some more and you’ll save a lot of money.

My opinions all above! but treated with a love of camping and people.

Peace.

Mike

Well as one of the ex-bad boy on this forum I will toss my opinion in on this.

Well never encourage another to exceed any of their sticker weights on an open forum, you could find yourself in court.

You can never change the listed payload unless you are a certified up-fitter.

While an axle manufacture may rate an axle for 10,500# that is ONLY it's ability to carry the the weight, not the brakes ability to stop the weight rating. The vehicle manufactures weight rating takes into account, frame strength, springs, tires, axle, and brakes.

Lastly is the fact that there is far too many hungry lawyers out there today that will sue for almost anything.
Keep in mind every towing section of a manufactures state many times not to exceed any of the listed weight ratings as it is unsafe. Once you do that intentionally you are open for a lawsuit.

When I finally stepped up to our Ram Laramie 3500 CTD DRW, I was towing our near 13,000# 5er close to 1,800# over GVWR, but still within both axle ratings.

To the OP, I copied this from your first post.
Here are the specs for the 5th wheel I am looking to purchase.

Length 39.25 ft. (471 in.)
Width 8.5 ft. (102 in.)
Height 13.42 ft. (161 in.)
Interior Height 6.33 ft. (76 in.)
Weight
Dry Weight 10,762 lbs.
Payload Capacity 3,274 lbs.
GVWR 14,036 lbs.
Hitch Weight 2,036 lbs..

To think a 39' 5er can have a dry weight of 10,762#, is a big stretch. then for a 39' 5er TH to only have a payload of 3,274# is extremely light.

Our 32' 5er with a GVWR of 12,360# has a payload capacity of 2,106# AFTER full propane (2) 30# tanks, and full fresh water (45 gal.), without those it is 2,540#, toys are heavy. This 32' 5er has a pin weight of 2,800#, if I had chosen to get a 3500 SRW RAM with a payload of 12,300#, with my in bed tool box I would be right at max payload.

Most equate payload to pin weight, our 3500 DRW has a sticker payload of 5,411#, the last time we scaled (the end of may) the TV weighed right at 10,000# 100% ready to hook up, leaving 4,000# for pin.
Some math;
4,000-2,800#= 1,200# left over, if the TV was SRW average payload for Ram is 4,200#.
4,200-1,411=2,789# ! It all adds up.

So what it boils down to is a 5er's best attribute, is the reason many are overweight. They tow without sway (Unless you really loaded extremely poorly).
Bag to level, no squirrely steering, all is great until the Deification hits the Rotary Oscillator.

[Frosty46]

Wow amazing amount of misinformation being given. Is your turck a "heavy 3/4? I tow a Raptor MB300 35 foot constantly over loaded with my fully deleted 2007 Ram Big Horn Heavy 3/4 with the Cummins 6.7., Air Lift system I installed. I have a great air induction set up also. Mine is a 4x2 long bed crew cab. Now my trailer is a bit lighter than yours except for my over;loading habits. At 55 mph I get over 30 mpg empty and long hauls pulling produce 14.7 mpg at that speed which I find most relaxing and safe. My rig has seen 90 mph in the Poconos in the rain and it pulled the crests perfectly. So it rides very well. That trip and all my long ones I got the same 14.7 average. So it comes down to your tolerance for going 55 except downhill. I'd say you are more than on the edge of being too little truck. However you could look at most any two axle rig.

[wiredgeorge]

This thread has just entered the Twilight Zone!

[flybouy]

Where's my hip waders ? It's getting deeper by the minute!

[notanlines]

Time and time again we see 1/2 ton and 3/4 ton owners trying to convince knowledgeable people how appropriate their TV's are in spite of the shortcomings. Seldom do we read, however, one so bold as to say "you could look at most any two axle rig" and follow it up with tales of towing 90 MPH through the mountains in the rain.
I believe we are approaching the "I've heard it all" stage on this forum.

[xrated]

Absolutely correct, unloaded (no toys) and the tongue weight increases (by a fair amount) With the toys loaded we have to sometimes shift load forward as the tongue weight decreases (sometimes more than I like). It tends to be a bigger problem when we travel without the toys, balancing the tongue weight can be a challenge.

I certainly know about it being a challenge when pulling a tow behind Toy Hauler. My previous one, a Fuzion Impact 303 with an empty tongue weight of 1340 lb went to just under 10% on the tongue when I loaded the garage with two motorcycles, and all the gear and paddock stuff we needed for a weekend at the motorcycle track. I ended up doing quite a few things to make the tongue weight heavier when the toy and gear was loaded and ready to travel.
1. Took out the single battery and replaced it with two 6V trojan T105s. This increased my tongue weight by at least 75-80 lbs.
2. I put two 60lb sand tubes in the baggage storage area up front (the storage area under the bed).
3. I put a 35 lb barbell plate under the baggage slide out tray.
4. I started carrying about 50 gallons of water in the fresh tank whenever we traveled and then hooked up to city water if needed instead of depleting my water in the tank.

After everything was said and done, I got my tongue weight up to right at 12% of the trailer weight. Before I did those things.....the trailer sway was absolutely horrible and could barely get to 55 mph with the trailer scarring me to the point I wouldn't travel with it. It was definitely an exercise in experimentation until I got it correct for how I traveled 95% of the time.

[Moonchaser]

We have the same 2018 ram 2500 mega cab sb diesel truck but our payload capacity is 3890 lb. We tow a 2011 Keystone Raptor 35.5' dry wt 11335 lbs payload 5100 lbs GVWR16435 lbs. Other than Air Lift bags in rear it is stock & pulls/stops fine. Just went 2000 miles. We use an Anderson 5th wheel hitch & love it.

[Javi]

I once pulled an 80,000 truck & trailer with my CJ-5 Rough Country suspension, dual shocks on each wheel, 400 HP 350 Chevy, 4:56 gears with Truetrac in the front and Detroit Locker in the rear with Moon's full floating axles... :D

[LewisB]

"Sure, it will pull anything"!
29260

[xrated]

We have the same 2018 ram 2500 mega cab sb diesel truck but our payload capacity is 3890 lb. We tow a 2011 Keystone Raptor 35.5' dry wt 11335 lbs payload 5100 lbs GVWR16435 lbs. Other than Air Lift bags in rear it is stock & pulls/stops fine. Just went 2000 miles. We use an Anderson 5th wheel hitch & love it.

I find it very hard to fathom that truck with 3890 lbs of payload....I'm guessing we all need to see a picture of the white/yellow sticker on the door post. Could you please post it for us.

[travelin texans]

Wow amazing amount of misinformation being given. Is your turck a "heavy 3/4? I tow a Raptor MB300 35 foot constantly over loaded with my fully deleted 2007 Ram Big Horn Heavy 3/4 with the Cummins 6.7., Air Lift system I installed. I have a great air induction set up also. Mine is a 4x2 long bed crew cab. Now my trailer is a bit lighter than yours except for my over;loading habits. At 55 mph I get over 30 mpg empty and long hauls pulling produce 14.7 mpg at that speed which I find most relaxing and safe. My rig has seen 90 mph in the Poconos in the rain and it pulled the crests perfectly. So it rides very well. That trip and all my long ones I got the same 14.7 average. So it comes down to your tolerance for going 55 except downhill. I'd say you are more than on the edge of being too little truck. However you could look at most any two axle rig.

29261
Yet another 30 mpg highway, 14.7 mpg overloaded 3/4 ton diesel!

[flybouy]

29261
Yet another 30 mpg highway, 14.7 mpg overloaded 3/4 ton diesel!

I think somewhere, someone is selling Bio-Diesel made from Jack's beanstalk beans. I wish that was offered around here!

[sourdough]

We have the same 2018 ram 2500 mega cab sb diesel truck but our payload capacity is 3890 lb. We tow a 2011 Keystone Raptor 35.5' dry wt 11335 lbs payload 5100 lbs GVWR16435 lbs. Other than Air Lift bags in rear it is stock & pulls/stops fine. Just went 2000 miles. We use an Anderson 5th wheel hitch & love it.



While I wouldn't be surprised that you pull a 16k+lb. trailer with a 3/4 (since I see those like that all the time) it doesn't make it right or safe - just makes you luck....so far.

I've looked at probably hundreds of Ram HD trucks and I find it strange that I've never seen a 3/4 approaching that payload on CC trucks much less mega cabs. In fact, Ram says that the max payload for 2018 Ram like yours would only be 2340 - bottom line, 2nd page;

https://www.ramtruck.ca/documents/ramtruck/specifications/2018-ramtruck-2500-specifications-en.pdf

Of course, maybe you have that one off prototype that was built that no one else got, if so a picture of the payload sticker would be in order. If not I think one could only refer to post #50. :D

[Laredo Tugger]

I guess a lot of the preceding arguments boil down to your integrity.
If the circumstances arose that required you to sell your TV and 5er (it does happen), would you feel comfortable selling both for someone else to drive off with a set up that "you made just as capable as a 3500" or would you sleep better splitting them apart.
If your'e not willing to sell the risk to someone else then why do you take it (towing over weighted)?
RMc

[K_N_L]

A few years back most every 3/4 ton truck I ran across was a 10K rated trunk, and that made no sense. Until you know that the fed's classify it as a class 2(b) truck which is the 10K limit. Cross over to 10,001 and most states charge you more in registration and taxes, especially if commercial use.


https://afdc.energy.gov/data/10380


So the majors built them and slap a 10k GVWR rating. So what is that 10k really capable of, dont know and not looking to find out. The pin weight on a ready to roll TH is likely to push the rear axle weight over the rating of the stock 3/4 tires and very close on most SRW 1 ton. My risk level was against losing (physically, financial, legally) should I be in an accident whether my fault or not. YMMV.

[Roscommon48]

it'll pull it but you really need a one ton

[MikeRP]

We have the same 2018 ram 2500 mega cab sb diesel truck but our payload capacity is 3890 lb. We tow a 2011 Keystone Raptor 35.5' dry wt 11335 lbs payload 5100 lbs GVWR16435 lbs. Other than Air Lift bags in rear it is stock & pulls/stops fine. Just went 2000 miles. We use an Anderson 5th wheel hitch & love it.

This is exactly what I’ve been saying folks. Ram and Ford both are starting to put the actual payload capacity on their 2500 trucks. My understanding is that one can still request the 10,000 GVWR. This has been a license tax etc issue for folks not a Capability issue. Sorry KNL you posted while I was trying to type.

It’s easy to see that’s 3500 SRW capability. So instead of assuming he or mostly me is fibbing, let’s work this through.

It gets back to the OP’s 2500 2018 Ram Mega Cab’s capability. Not it’s artificial limitation on the sticker.

If we set aside whether we believe the sticker = capability on a 2500 and then we say, can Moonchaser’s truck w his reported numbers safely haul the OP’s proposed trailer?

What would be the answer?

[xrated]

This is exactly what I’ve been saying folks. Ram and Ford both are starting to put the actual payload capacity on their 2500 trucks. My understanding is that one can still request the 10,000 GVWR. This has been a license tax etc issue for folks not a Capability issue. Sorry KNL you posted while I was trying to type.

It’s easy to see that’s 3500 SRW capability. So instead of assuming he or mostly me is fibbing, let’s work this through.

It gets back to the OP’s 2500 2018 Ram Mega Cab’s capability. Not it’s artificial limitation on the sticker.

If we set aside whether we believe the sticker = capability on a 2500 and then we say, can Moonchaser’s truck w his reported numbers safely haul the OP’s proposed trailer?

What would be the answer?

One of the answers would be..."Moonchaser DOESN'T have 3890 on a 2018 SB, Megacab, diesel........it ain't happening. In fact, unless it's a 2WD model, I wouldn't even believe 2890. Upgraded payloads on the 3/4T and 1 Ton trucks for Ford and Chevy/GMC didn't start happening until the 2020 model year.

[CedarCreekWoody]

My 2019 Ram tradesman with 6.7 Cummins shows 2560 payload.

[MikeRP]

One of the answers would be..."Moonchaser DOESN'T have 3890 on a 2018 SB, Megacab, diesel........it ain't happening. In fact, unless it's a 2WD model, I wouldn't even believe 2890. Upgraded payloads on the 3/4T and 1 Ton trucks for Ford and Chevy/GMC didn't start happening until the 2020 model year.

I know that Ram started this sooner than 2020. I again thought late 2018. I certainly wouldn’t call a member a fibber being nice.

And you didn’t answer my question. Me, I wouldn’t be afraid for any late model HD pickup to handle the fifth wheel the OP is looking at in the beginning. That’s my opinion. That is nothing for a properly equipped 2500.

In fact RV crashes are rarely related to being overweight. I saw at least 5 RV’s this last week pulled off the road with tire failures and I talked to one of them at my campground. Michelin.

The guy next to me this weekend flipped his truck and RV last winter. Totaled the works. Weather conditions.

It just points out to me, we as a group need less discussion about truck weights, not that this isn’t important, and more about safety and training in general. Fifth wheels, again in my opinion, are a steep learning curve for a new camping family.

We could all do more to help em out.

Peace

[sourdough]

I know that Ram started this sooner than 2020. I again thought late 2018. I certainly wouldn’t call a member a fibber being nice.

And you didn’t answer my question. Me, I wouldn’t be afraid for any late model HD pickup to handle the fifth wheel the OP is looking at in the beginning. That’s my opinion. That is nothing for a properly equipped 2500.

In fact RV crashes are rarely related to being overweight. I saw at least 5 RV’s this last week pulled off the road with tire failures and I talked to one of them at my campground. Michelin.

The guy next to me this weekend flipped his truck and RV last winter. Totaled the works. Weather conditions.

It just points out to me, we as a group need less discussion about truck weights, not that this isn’t important, and more about safety and training in general. Fifth wheels, again in my opinion, are a steep learning curve for a new camping family.

We could all do more to help em out.

Peace



Here is a link to Ram's website for 2020 2500 trucks. I think those mythical 3800-4000lb payloads for a 2500 must be a....myth?

https://www.ramtrucks.com/towing-guide.html

[xrated]

I know that Ram started this sooner than 2020. I again thought late 2018. I certainly wouldn’t call a member a fibber being nice.

And you didn’t answer my question. Me, I wouldn’t be afraid for any late model HD pickup to handle the fifth wheel the OP is looking at in the beginning. That’s my opinion. That is nothing for a properly equipped 2500.

In fact RV crashes are rarely related to being overweight. I saw at least 5 RV’s this last week pulled off the road with tire failures and I talked to one of them at my campground. Michelin.

The guy next to me this weekend flipped his truck and RV last winter. Totaled the works. Weather conditions.

It just points out to me, we as a group need less discussion about truck weights, not that this isn’t important, and more about safety and training in general. Fifth wheels, again in my opinion, are a steep learning curve for a new camping family.

We could all do more to help em out.

Peace

Sorry, you can't preach about "more safety", AND suggest a truck that is going to be severely overloaded........be OK!

And as far as saying someone is "fibbing", that's not necessarily the case. There are lots and lot of folks that simply do not know how to get to the actual payload numbers for their truck. They read a brochure, look at a towing guide, or whatever their source is and they mistakenly see the part about Maximum payload for that model. Two things about that....1 They don't bother to look at the footnotes that are there with the "maximum payload number" that tells you "When properly equipped". In layman's terms, that means a Regular cab, 2 WD, base model or work truck with ZERO options, and many times the gas motor (vs. diesel) So they see max payload and automatically think that is their truck. 2 The actual payload number for the vehicle is clearly stated on the Government mandated sticker, usually on the door or more likely on the door post on the driver's side of the truck. That number is the gospel for the payload capacity of THAT truck, as it was built and came off of the assembly line. Anything that is done to the truck afterwards......tool box in the bed, a 5ver hitch added, spray in bedliner applied, tonneau cover installed........anything and everything added causes that sticker number to decrease by the amount of weight of the item(s) added to the truck. It's just that simple

[notanlines]

I believe xrated statement "There are lots and lot of folks that simply do not know how to get to the actual payload numbers for their truck. They read a brochure, look at a towing guide, or whatever their source is and they mistakenly see the part about Maximum payload for that model" says it all. I also believe the 'fibbers' aren't only hanging out on payload threads, but also on the MPG threads. I'm also convinced that a large number of RV'ers simply don't know HOW TO figure mileage on their vehicles. Imagine that same group trying to decipher their needs for a new TV....

[avalanchehd]

Maybe the payload sticker is misleading.
Fill the tank with fuel, add about 200lbs to the bed for hitch, load wife and child, go find cat scales. For 10 bucks you know what all of that weighs.
Then compare you front and rear gross axle weights (sticker) to actual axle weights, do a little math and see what is left for pin weight.

[sourdough]

Maybe the payload sticker is misleading.
Fill the tank with fuel, add about 200lbs to the bed for hitch, load wife and child, go find cat scales. For 10 bucks you know what all of that weighs.
Then compare you front and rear gross axle weights (sticker) to actual axle weights, do a little math and see what is left for pin weight.


There are 2 schools of thoughts on your process I believe.

There is a payload listed on the truck, it's not misleading, it says MUST NOT EXCEED. Generally that number totals shy of the gawr ratings. Reason is to give the owner a cushion before he loads the truck up to all the axles can carry, then throws on another 500lbs. or more, hits a ditch and the axle tube breaks/falls out. So they leave a cushion because they know human nature and that by and large they will NOT adhere to the payload amount exactly.

When tallying up gawrs and then loading to that, the exact same thing is going to happen; overloading, but this time you are overloading over the mechanical limits of the vehicle. Some say the difference between what the payload allows vs the gawrs is "misleading", silly or a cya for the manufacturer. In fact, it is their way of giving the owner a safety cushion in the hopes they won't kill themselves or someone else by breaking a critical component.

[xrated]

The Payload number is simply a result....a result of all of the components of the truck/car/whatever. Drive train, springs, tires, wheels, brakes, and everything that goes into a safe number to load the vehicle to. And while towing capability is a result of engine, transmission, rearend gearing, hp and torque and probably some other things I'm not thinking of, the bottom line is that no matter what the towing capability is listed at, the other ratings cannot be exceeded. And with a 5th wheel camping type trailer, almost always the payload number will be exceeded before you reach the towing weight numbers.

I've had people ask me how that can be. The manufacturer says that it can tow xxxx amount, but I can't get there because the payload number will not let me tow a trailer that weighs xxxx amount without exceeding the payload rating on the truck. They must be lying about their numbers. Actually, no, they aren't. There is a huge difference between towing a 5ver camping trailer and towing a flat bed/utility trailer hauling cargo, etc. You might easily be able to tow a utility trailer that is loaded to the stated towing capacity because you have the option of placing the cargo on the trailer far enough back to not exceed the pin or gooseneck weight. With a 5ver camping type trailer, the storage space is where it is. It's not easy to move the heavy weight to the back in a camping trailer to lighten the pin weight (Toy Haulers excepted). And did anyone ever notice that when the manufacturers state the towing capacity for their trucks, not a SINGLE ONE OF THEM state "5th wheel camping trailer"..........they simply say "trailer".

So the bottom line is that the manufacturers provide numbers for their product's weight capacities and towing ratings, but it is up to all of us to understand and know how to use the numbers they provide....in other words, don't exceed any of the numbers. If you hit payload capacity before you reach towing capacity.........then don't exceed the payload. If you've reached the towing capacity rating for the truck and you haven't exceeded the payload via pin or gooseneck capacity or the GCVWR......you did good! Common sense should prevail! I know, it's not all that common anymore!

[NMRandy]

My 2012 GMC 2500HD crew cab, 4x4, Duramax, has a payload of 2413, (on the sticker). GVW is 10,000lbs. New GMC 2500HD, crew cab, 4x4, Duramax,
has GVW of 11,550, and a payload of 3563, (on the website). Looks like the new ones have more payload due to higher GVW. I checked parts catalogs for suspension and brake components and found they were the same for a 2500HD and a 3500HD SRW. Even the axle tube is the same. I am not sure what the difference between the two trucks are? Springs maybe? Tires?

[xrated]

It could be any number of things. The increase of the GVWR to 11,550 obviously allows for more payload capacity if the truck weight stays the same. At one time, the Ford F250 and F350 showed the same part number for the rear axles. But, the internal parts were larger/beefier on the F350 vs. the F250. If you needed parts (internal stuff) for the axle, they had to have the V.I.N. number so that they could order the correct parts.

[JRTJH]

My 2012 GMC 2500HD crew cab, 4x4, Duramax, has a payload of 2413, (on the sticker). GVW is 10,000lbs. New GMC 2500HD, crew cab, 4x4, Duramax,
has GVW of 11,550, and a payload of 3563, (on the website). Looks like the new ones have more payload due to higher GVW. I checked parts catalogs for suspension and brake components and found they were the same for a 2500HD and a 3500HD SRW. Even the axle tube is the same. I am not sure what the difference between the two trucks are? Springs maybe? Tires?

It has been "rumored" that GM is moving toward eliminating the 1500/2500/3500 model series and producing only two truck lines, the LT and the HD series. Within those series there will be "specific GVW ratings" that will give the trucks a variety of payload capacities.... Ford and RAM have followed GM's lead by increasing the GVW ratings on their 3/4 ton trucks. I don't have any information on "when or how" that conversion (if the rumors are true) will occur, but it seems like a logical move to reorganize the truck lines just like GM reorganized and eliminated the Pontiac, Hummer and Oldsmobile lines.