Camping Etiquette

[Canonman]

I believe there are a fair number of members who enjoy responsible boon-docking and dry camping. Evidently there are others out there who think the whole world is their personal trash can. While I have not personally found any campsites in the condition referred to by this sign I'm sure the Forest Service and BLM must have encountered places where these signs were needed. We need to make sure we keep our public lands Open to the Public. Leave no trace might mean cleaning up after those who weren't taught simple Camping Etiquette.

[Gegrad]

I am assuming this is directed at tenters and backpackers. I don't know many people with RVs who say "nah, not gonna use my sweet toilet, I think I just go s^%t in the woods instead!" :lol::lol:

[sourdough]

There are zillions that do what that sign is warning about...zillions. No respect for the outdoors, nature or others. It's literally sickening. I've packed out so much "junk and crap" from others it's mind boggling. Seems many figure that "someone" is going (supposed to) pick up after their lazy bums. Everywhere.

Reminds me of a place I used to love to go in NM. Remote, unattended in the 60s/70s. Took a Boy Scout trip there when I was a pup and the water was so clear, the falls pristine, the pools, rocks and cave were awesome. Went back a few times while it was still a primitive road to get there. Then the decided to pave the road, improve the falls, make stairs and concrete access etc. Bad idea. Went after the improvements with some old friends that used to go with me. Walked over the concrete walkway and looked down at the pool under the falls - heartbreaking. Yo yos sitting in the pool with out of control kids, booze bottles everywhere, out of control, dirty pampers thrown into the pools of water (which used to be pristine), the rocks up to the cave damaged, graffitied..... I walked to the edge of the pool, looked at the "human waste" and literally yelled at everyone of them for being such sorry xxx...then left....and haven't been back. Sitting Bull Falls in NM - wow, the leeches were cool when I was a Boy Scout. :(

[Northofu1]

You don't have to go camping to see that crap.
Been to a theater before covid? Been to a hockey arena before covid. Groups of people are basically garbage. Not all of course.
“I love people as I meet them one by one. People are just wonderful as individuals. You see the whole universe in their eyes if you look carefully. But as soon as they begin to group, as soon as they begin to clot, when there are five of them or ten or even groups of smallest two, they begin to change, they sacrifice the beauty of the individual for the sake of the group.”

― George Carlin RIP

[chuckster57]

It’s not just campgrounds, it’s everywhere. Why?

We could discuss this until we are out of breath. It’s sad, VERY SAD!!

[Getn off]

You don't have to go camping to see that crap.
Been to a theater before covid? Been to a hockey arena before covid. Groups of people are basically garbage. Not all of course.
“I love people as I meet them one by one. People are just wonderful as individuals. You see the whole universe in their eyes if you look carefully. But as soon as they begin to group, as soon as they begin to clot, when there are five of them or ten or even groups of smallest two, they begin to change, they sacrifice the beauty of the individual for the sake of the group.”

― George Carlin RIP

Reminds me of one of my favorite sayings...
“I hate people, but I love persons.”
Troy

[travelin texans]

I am assuming this is directed at tenters and backpackers. I don't know many people with RVs who say "nah, not gonna use my sweet toilet, I think I just go s^%t in the woods instead!" :lol::lol:

Believe it or not we've met numerous folks that WILL NOT use their RV toilet, THAT'S GROSS. Others that only go #1 at night, never #2 & several that only use the shower for storage. I had one fellow ask how difficult it would be to remove the shower in his 5er cause they never use it & wanted a cabinet in its place. Personally I think all these people are nuts!!! So it's not necessarily only tenters/backpackers.
It's the ME generation, don't give a sh## about anybody or anything but ME!

[flybouy]

No different than driving, parking lot, check out lines, social media etiquette or anything else. Seems like each generation slips a little closer to a "all about me" mentality.

I'm no sociologist but it seems obvious to me that the last generations have been "rewarded" and "reinforced" in this behavior. Kids play video/computer games where it's them against the world. Fewer kids play team sports or participate in an organization where group interaction and participation is necessary. A team trophy isn't good enough, they each get a trophy/award just for showing up when they do play a sport.

So you combine the above with the likeliness that both parents are working often 2 jobs so the video games/television (youtube) becomes the child care. People reflect their rearing and their attitude. I've seen many, many times someone in the city throw their drink container on the ground mere feet from a trash can. These days no one is going to "call them out" for it for fear of retaliation or physical harm. Combine that behavior with several people in a crowd and the folks who do care will most likely "give up" and say why am I concerned, no one else is.

"A man's manners are a mirror in which he shows his portrait."
Johann Wolfgang von Goethe

[notanlines]

Marshall at first I thought your statement "Fewer kids play team sports or participate in an organization where group interaction and participation is necessary" wasn't exactly true, but after about 45 seconds on our friend Google I found this:

According to a recent report by the Sports & Fitness Industry Association (SFIA) and the Aspen Institute, youth participation in most team sports was up slightly in 2017, but was down 4% over the past four years. A decade ago, 45% of children ages 6 to 12 played a team sport regularly, but now only 37% of kids do so.

[travelin texans]

I have grandkids that if it weren't for food or potty breaks they'd never come out of their rooms!
Play a team sport? Can I take my phone?
Without a hand controller or monitor?
Go outside?
You want me to run?
Go camping in the woods with NO Wifi?
Now with CV19 & home schooling, that's right up their alley. If nothing else kids need to the social interaction with other kids, not just the other vegetables on another computer.

[JRTJH]

Marshall at first I thought your statement "Fewer kids play team sports or participate in an organization where group interaction and participation is necessary" wasn't exactly true, but after about 45 seconds on our friend Google I found this:

According to a recent report by the Sports & Fitness Industry Association (SFIA) and the Aspen Institute, youth participation in most team sports was up slightly in 2017, but was down 4% over the past four years. A decade ago, 45% of children ages 6 to 12 played a team sport regularly, but now only 37% of kids do so.

Group participation is down, probably nationwide. Just ask any Boy Scout troop, Girl Scout troop, YMCA youth program, Little League or most any other "group activity"...

Statistically, there are so many ways to "bend the data" that it's difficult to get a true picture of participation today, when compared to 5, 10 or 20 years ago...

As an example, if a city had 5,000 kids age 10-15 and 500 of them were in Little League in 1960, there's a participation rate of 10%...

Today, let's say there are 15,000 kids in that city of the same age group and there are 750 participating in Little League...

You "could say" that there are 250 more kids in LL, so participation has increased by 50%.....

You "could also say" (more accurately) that participation (15,000 eligible/750 participating) has declined from 10% to 5%, a 50% decrease in participation...

So, when you look at "statistics" you've got to first look at what the person reporting them has as their "objective"... Is it to gain support for that statistic or to criticize it???? You can do both with the exact same numbers, as illustrated above....

That said, overall, young people spend more time "alone with computers" than they do with "peers in competitive group activity".... There are exceptions to the rule, but unfortunately, our society has evolved to a "individual activity choice rather than a group activity choice" for most kids...

If they don't learn to be a part of something, then in adulthood, they continue what they've learned previously and don't focus on what others do/feel/need, rather they focus on what "THEY" want to do, need or feel...

Result: It's all about ME, not THEE or WE......

[Rickmuzick]

The same low life dirtbags that live in houses also camp!
I have been the victim of the following from fellow campers:

An unused, brand new spare taken from the back of my fifth wheel and replaced with a shredded POS they needed my new one for

LED lights stolen from my awning

Chairs stolen from my site

Surge protector stolen from my site

Water filter and angled water connection stolen from my site

PUKES ARE EVERYWHERE AND SHARE THE SAME HOBBIES AND PASS TIMES.

[flybouy]

The same low life dirtbags that live in houses also camp!
I have been the victim of the following from fellow campers:

An unused, brand new spare taken from the back of my fifth wheel and replaced with a shredded POS they needed my new one for

LED lights stolen from my awning

Chairs stolen from my site

Surge protector stolen from my site

Water filter and angled water connection stolen from my site

PUKES ARE EVERYWHERE AND SHARE THE SAME HOBBIES AND PASS TIMES.

Wow! Tell me where you camp as I definitely want to avoid it! I've had vandalism and theft in storage lots but never (knock on wood) at a campground.

[footz1941]

Before I retired there was a smoking area outside with a roof and 4 or 5 ashtrays but cigarette butts would be all over the ground. One of my crew said the custodians would clean it up. I wrote him up for refunding to pick up his butt within 2 minutes of the custodian leaving. Asked him if he did that at home and explained he spent nearly as much time here as at home. Some people are just slobs. Seems to be getting worse by the day

[boagey]

Not only campers but boaters too, Enabled by their parents, which made sure they received participating trophies.

[Roscommon48]

you can't fit stupid.

[blubuckaroo]

I believe a person’s true character comes out in anonymity. Just look at how some drive. The trash on the road usually happens at night. The best we can do is to be the best example we can and raise our kids to do better than others they see.

[flybouy]

Not only campers but boaters too, Enabled by their parents, which made sure they received participating trophies.

It started before the "participation trophy" crowd came along. When we had our 30' Sea Ray back in the mid - late. 1980's we would go to the inner harbor in Baltimore on 7/4 to anchor out and watch the fireworks. Every year the aholes, typically drunk made it more and more difficult.

There were the idiots that would throw out 15' of anchor line in the 50' deep Chanel. Then there were the idiots shooting flares and rockets off into boats. I finally gave up and anchored much farther out. It's those idiots with no respect for others that raised this generation of "me and not thee or we" idiots.
JMHO

[Huntme]

what is needed is a bunch of Zip Ties,a can of red paint and a pair if dirty socks in there mouth,after using all of said items,leave them Zip Tied in the forest for about 24 Hours,should give them a good lesson on stealing,trashing a place,and not cleaning up after them selves.

[Harried Harry]

I wish it was getting better, but I don't see it happening any time soon. I live in the country a few miles from a waste transfer station. Years back dumping didn't cost anything (paid in our property tax). Now we pay for each load. No matter trash is always on the roadside. Back of the roads the arroyos are full of trash. My 4x4 club will go out and do a cleanup once a year. The last time we filled a very large dump trailer full. Now the county is fining shooters who don't pick up the spent shells, under threat of closing off any place where they might be shooting unless it's cleaned up. Since the county owns the road and BLM owns the land, it could be done easily. Now most of the land is inside a National Monument, so trashing it can be expensive if you are caught.
(which is a challenge since no new staffing was provided).