Maxxis failure

[pakuma]

I am very disappointed in the Maxxis tires I got for my 5er.
I went to pack the wheel bearings and discovered 3 tires out of round, upon further inspection they were delaminating.
I am leaving soon and I am putting a set of Carlisle tires on.
I have attached a picture of one of the tires all three looked like this. I initially thought that I had an alignment issue or bent axle not so.
They are just less than 4 years old and probably around 5,000 miles.

[sourdough]

That's the pits! I hate it for you.

For others input; I was reading on another forum a few days ago that the reports of Maxxis failures are growing. Anyone had any experiences with that?

[GaryUT]

It looks like something is definitely out of alignment, the inside edge shows almost no wear but the tread blocks on the outside edge have been worn away.


Gary

[pakuma]

I thought it was out of alignment, but I used old school and measure it, it was almost completely in alignment. The left side is 1/2" closer to center than the right.
thank you though

[Old Mustanger]

Something's not aligned or too much camber for a tire to wear like that IMHO

[flybouy]

I thought it was out of alignment, but I used old school and measure it, it was almost completely in alignment. The left side is 1/2" closer to center than the right.
thank you though

That doesn't read like it's "in alignment" to me. Are you saying the left side axles are 1/2 inch closer together? If the axles are straight and parallel then it should create a perfect rectangle with each of the two opposing sides having equal distances.

[ChuckS]

looking at the feathering and scuffing on that tire there is something amiss with the axle alignment.... a good trailer repair shop will be able to properly measure and repair your issue

[notanlines]

Pakuma, I don't want to jump in and defend the Maxxis. They have a great reputation, but there are always exceptions. But not three with the same problem as a general rule. I've read every post on this thread and I fully agree with all, especially Chuck's advice of having it aligned.
Your RV is not in good alignment and your new rubber will simply follow suit.
Call this number and they will help you find a good alignment for your trailer: 562.941.2300

[pakuma]

While i would agree about the alignment if this was the only tire, but 3 out of the 4 tires on the coach had this appearance and sever tread separation; the fourth was getting there. I agree with having the alignment checked, i don't believe that alignment was the cause.
The axles have no measurable tow out or toe in.
The axles are square to each other.
Checking from the front axle tires centerline to the kingpin center the left side if forward 1/2".

[CWtheMan]

If those Maxxis tires do not have a speed letter or speed rating molded onto the tire sidewall, they are 65 MPH tires.

When tire treads start to separate from the carcass, they will grow. Here is a picture of two identical brand and designated sized tires. The taller one would have had a complete tread separation had it not been found before it could fail.

28847

[pakuma]

The Maxxis' had a speed rating of 70 MPH.
When I am towing I am in no hurry and I keep my speed at 65 or less.
Even though the Carlisle's are rated to 80 I have no intention to change,besides I am on holiday and am in no rush.

[Snoking]

The Maxxis' had a speed rating of 70 MPH.
When I am towing I am in no hurry and I keep my speed at 65 or less.
Even though the Carlisle's are rated to 80 I have no intention to change,besides I am on holiday and am in no rush.

Personally, I would go with the new Goodyear Endurance over the Carlisle's. Chris

[Bill-2020]

Personally, I would go with the new Goodyear Endurance over the Carlisle's. Chris

Can you expand on why a little? I know there's been some here who would like to see some more "mileage" on these new Goodyears and how they hold up compared to a tried and true Carlisle. I've been planning on changing out the OEM tires with a better set. I've been on the fence and I'm taking in all that I can from both sides, love to hear your input.

[CWtheMan]

The Maxxis' had a speed rating of 70 MPH.


There is no speed letter for 70 MPH. Did the tire actually have, "MAX SPEEC 70 MPH printed on it?

Again, I reiterate, official tire speed ratings can only become official if displayed on the tire with a speed letter or a value molded on the tire sidewall.

ST tires without having an official speed rating on their sidewalls default to the TRA standard of 65 MPH.

Here are a couple of pictures showing the two official methods of depicting tire speed ratings on a tire sidewall. The first shows a tire service description followed by a letter L. The "L" is the speed letter for 75 MPH. The second picture shows a tire with an actual tire speed rating molded onto the tire sidewall.

28849

28850

[CWtheMan]

Can you expand on why a little? I know there's been some here who would like to see some more "mileage" on these new Goodyears and how they hold up compared to a tried and true Carlisle. I've been planning on changing out the OEM tires with a better set. I've been on the fence and I'm taking in all that I can from both sides, love to hear your input.

The GY Endurance trailer tires have a couple of features most other ST tires do not have. First is a nylon belt overlay and the second is sidewall scuff guard inserts.

ST tires are not mileage tires, they are age-out tires. Years ago the estimated mileage for ST tires was 3000 - 10000 miles or 3 - 5 years of service. The evolution of ST tire manufacturing and materials increased rapidly causing those figures to rise just as rapidly. However, there are no solid figures for mileage use or age-out time. The individual tire warranty package may give you a clue.

[Bill-2020]

The GY Endurance trailer tires have a couple of features most other ST tires do not have. First is a nylon belt overlay and the second is sidewall scuff guard inserts.

ST tires are not mileage tires, they are age-out tires. Years ago the estimated mileage for ST tires was 3000 - 10000 miles or 3 - 5 years of service. The evolution of ST tire manufacturing and materials increased rapidly causing those figures to rise just as rapidly. However, there are no solid figures for mileage use or age-out time. The individual tire warranty package may give you a clue.

Understood. Thanks for the details.

[Snoking]

Can you expand on why a little? I know there's been some here who would like to see some more "mileage" on these new Goodyears and how they hold up compared to a tried and true Carlisle. I've been planning on changing out the OEM tires with a better set. I've been on the fence and I'm taking in all that I can from both sides, love to hear your input.

Goodyear put a lot of work into the Endurance, and has a vested interest in making sure people are happy with it. Also GY is the about the only tire manufacture that will pay for trailer damage if you go about it correctly. 1. Saving the failed tire. 2. Being polite but firm. 3. Not accepting only your insurance deductible.

[notanlines]

“ Goodyear put a lot of work into the Endurance, and has a vested interest in making sure people are happy with it. ”
I wonder how this differs with their Marathon tire? Hmmmm? And they built it for years knowing how bad it was...

[flybouy]

While i would agree about the alignment if this was the only tire, but 3 out of the 4 tires on the coach had this appearance and sever tread separation; the fourth was getting there. I agree with having the alignment checked, i don't believe that alignment was the cause.
The axles have no measurable tow out or toe in.
The axles are square to each other.
Checking from the front axle tires centerline to the kingpin center the left side if forward 1/2".

The fact that 3 of the 4 tires have an abnormal tread wear and the bolded statement tell me that something is wrong. The axles can be parallel to one another but if it isn't square to the pin/frame then it's going to "crab" going down the road resulting in the tires scuffing and premature wear as the force on the tires will not be parallel to the tread.

I hope you get the alignment checked before ruining that new set of tires.

[Snoking]

“ Goodyear put a lot of work into the Endurance, and has a vested interest in making sure people are happy with it. ”
I wonder how this differs with their Marathon tire? Hmmmm? And they built it for years knowing how bad it was...

Lets start with the ST235/80R16. The Marathon weighed 34 pounds and the Endurance in that size weighs 39 pounds and has a service description of 123N (87MPH), where as the Marathon did not have a service description and was a 65MPH tire. We bought a 25 foot Terry 5th wheel in early 1997 and it had Marathon tires, and the originals were still on it when we traded it in for a new 5th wheel in June of 2004.

Carlisle built some of the worst trailer tires for years, and now people recommend them. However since people started recommending them, they have had to upgrade/change them at least twice.

I am one of the few that has had an issue with a Endurance. It was a road hazard. I did not pay the extra for road hazard coverage. Goodyear however as a gesture of good will pay for one half of the cost of a new tire. How many other tire companies do you thing would have done that.

[CWtheMan]

“ Goodyear put a lot of work into the Endurance, and has a vested interest in making sure people are happy with it. ”
I wonder how this differs with their Marathon tire? Hmmmm? And they built it for years knowing how bad it was...

GY put a lot of engineering and forethought in the development of the Marathon ST tires. When they were introduced into the USA market they were built here in the USA. A few years later, GY opened a new plant in China which started building the Marathon ST tires. Because of all the failure reports, GY reviewed their ST manufacturing program. There were zero NHTSA recalls against the brand.

The GY Marathons are the primary reason I started researching ST tires in 2004. When we purchased our first and only full time trailer, it was a 38', 2003 Keystone Everest 5th wheel. It had 6000 axles and the Original Equipment tires were USA made GY Marathons. They were ST235/80R16 LRD, that's right LRD with a maximum load capacity of 3000# at 65 PSI. With those tires GY did not fail me, the governing body did. Within the first, year all OE tires had failed. GY inspected one of them and said I was overloading them. It was very easy to do with zero load capacity reserves and a 65 MPH speed restriction.

The GY endurance ST tires cannot be accurately compared with like sized tires of another brand. The GY may have taller treads, a nylon overlay and sidewall scuff guard sidewall inserts. All add weigh but do not add strength, just a little more durability.

The ST235/80R16 LRE tires have a serious fallacy, they have three distinct load capacity limits, all at 80 PSI. Their maximum load capacity can be 3420#, 3500# or 3520#.

[Northofu1]

I have never liked good year tires. Friends had them and complained about them.
I like Michelin for my vehicles, I miss the Sears brand Silverguard esprit made by Michelin, so cheap and a sweet ride with a Delta 88. Sears hasn't sold tires north of the border since the 90's. I do want to try the Sailun Terra Max for the truck when time comes to replace, unless I hear they start having issues. I do very much likes the Carlisle's

[Snoking]

GY put a lot of engineering and forethought in the development of the Marathon ST tires. When they were introduced into the USA market they were built here in the USA. A few years later, GY opened a new plant in China which started building the Marathon ST tires. Because of all the failure reports, GY reviewed their ST manufacturing program. There were zero NHTSA recalls against the brand.

The GY Marathons are the primary reason I started researching ST tires in 2004. When we purchased our first and only full time trailer, it was a 38', 2003 Keystone Everest 5th wheel. It had 6000 axles and the Original Equipment tires were USA made GY Marathons. They were ST235/80R16 LRD, that's right LRD with a maximum load capacity of 3000# at 65 PSI. With those tires GY did not fail me, the governing body did. Within the first, year all OE tires had failed. GY inspected one of them and said I was overloading them. It was very easy to do with zero load capacity reserves and a 65 MPH speed restriction.

The GY endurance ST tires cannot be accurately compared with like sized tires of another brand. The GY may have taller treads, a nylon overlay and sidewall scuff guard sidewall inserts. All add weigh but do not add strength, just a little more durability.

The ST235/80R16 LRE tires have a serious fallacy, they have three distinct load capacity limits, all at 80 PSI. Their maximum load capacity can be 3420#, 3500# or 3520#.

I advised Cal to put Michelin XPS Ribs on his trailer way back then, however he chose to stay with ST tires, and had many failures with several brands, while I ran 7.5 years and around 40K+ miles on Ribs and then sold them for 200 bucks on CL. I then install Bridgestone Duravis R250's and ran them for another 4 years before selling the trailer.

[Bill-2020]

Well, it appears I'm a bit limited to manufacturers. Sailun doesn't make a tire my size, you know, a donut. 205/75R14. And it seems there's another couple of other brands that I've not see elsewhere. It's gonna be either Carlisle or GY. I've got some time, I'll sleep some more on this.

[sourdough]

I advised Cal to put Michelin XPS Ribs on his trailer way back then, however he chose to stay with ST tires, and had many failures with several brands, while I ran 7.5 years and around 40K+ miles on Ribs and then sold them for 200 bucks on CL. I then install Bridgestone Duravis R250's and ran them for another 4 years before selling the trailer.


Is this like a "my dog's bigger than your dog" moment, told you so or ???

Everyone makes a mistake - especially when the manufacturer misleads you; we all learn. I run only ST tires because that is what the manufacturer states. Until the last couple of years the manufacturers were shortchanging RV buyers with tires that weren't adequate for the RV. I was a victim of that and hundreds, probably thousands, of others. Cal was one of, if not, the first to call attention to the revised RVIA standards for load capacity on the tires and diligently tries to educate folks on tire safety.

I run what the manufacturer says to run on my trailer (generally higher load range) and figure that is what most folks do. My interest in the results of anyone running tires other than that stipulated by the builder just don't interest me nor do I think it's right to try to minimalize anyone that tried to follow the rules in the past....and share the negative results. JMO/YMMV

[sourdough]

Well, it appears I'm a bit limited to manufacturers. Sailun doesn't make a tire my size, you know, a donut. 205/75R14. And it seems there's another couple of other brands that I've not see elsewhere. It's gonna be either Carlisle or GY. I've got some time, I'll sleep some more on this.

Bill I know the quandry you face. Don't know that I can help much but I will say this; when my TKs failed I went with Carlisle Radial HDs. Don't know that the Endurance was around (if you are looking at anything other than the Endurance...don't IMO). The Carlisles were robust, heavy tires that stood well by me with zero issues or concerns. My TK failures were in the spring of 15 approx. 15 mos. after buying the new trailer. All tires were replaced with the HDs. When I traded it in this March they were approx. 5 years old - too old I told myself...but they just wore so good. I watched them all the time; removed them to inspect them; they just worked...for me. This spring was to be the time to replace them regardless; and I did, with a new trailer:D.

The Endurance is probably a really good tire...but I'm still waiting another year or two. Even then they won't be my "top choice" but at least they will be a viable alternative.

[JRTJH]

To "piggyback" on Danny's comments:

I also had "issues with TK's. I won't claim to have coined the nickname china bomb, but I will freely admit that I've used it regularly and don't believe that TK's have avoided that name. Over and over again, I read comments from people who have suffered catastrophic damage to their towable RV, and invariably, when asked the brand of tire, TK comes up over and over.

As for Carlisle tires, I initially bought Radial Trail RH tires (3 months before the Radial Trail HD was introduced) as replacements for my china bombs. I bought them rather than Maxxis because of price. Carlisle tires in 225 75R15 LRE were $67 each at WalMart. Maxxis were over $100 for the same size tire.

Then along came Goodyear Endurance. Made in America and claimed to be "better than the competition. Are they??? I just don't know.

To date, since 2016 and the introduction of the Radial Trail HD, I have only heard of one tire failure on that brand. The cause of the failure was not determined, at least not reported, so it may have been a road hazard, a bad tire, a failure or misuse. I don't know. At any rate, I've heard of no "problematic failures" with Carlisle Radial Trail tires. They are currently $78 at WalMart. Goodyear Endurance, in the same size, are $134. That's $224 more than a set of Radial Trail HD tires.

I don't know how many people would not want to save $225 on tires by buying a comparable tire that has no history of failure... Now, if HD's were causing problems on a frequent basis, I'd say maybe the extra money for better tires is a sound investment. But HD's aren't failing, they are providing the same reliable service as Endurance tires, so why spend extra money for no extra service reliability???

Each person needs to do their own research and spend their money on what they believe is the best purchase for their situation....

That said, I bought Carlisle Radial Trail HD's for the second time (actually RH's the first time) and I've got well over 40K miles on these two sets with zero problems.... I also bought Sailun TerraMax tires for my truck rather than Michelin LTX-2's and have been very pleasantly surprised by the excellent service they have given me.

I am, more and more, coming to realize that spending the most money doesn't necessarily give you any better product than you'd get if you do your research and buy an equally reliable product for a significant savings...

Additionally, having been one of those who got caught up in the Goodyear Marathon debacle in the 90's, for me, the "jury is still out on Goodyear"....

[Bill-2020]

I appreciate your thoughts Danny and John. I was going to let the TKs stay on for the first year, then change them. Honestly, some of the posts (like this one) put a bit of a flame under me to make a move sooner than later. Besides, I might get a few more bucks on craigslist for them now rather than a year from now for someone's boat or lawn service trailer. I watch the pressures and temps closely when traveling (TPMS), but that doesn't mean one would give out at any moment. I am leaning toward the Carlisles, price is a consideration and given the experience you and others have had, it doesn't seem like I can go wrong with them.

[JRTJH]

These are photos of "My TK BOMBS" when I took them off our Cougar. They were 18 months old, the obvious carcass/tread separation was impossible to see or identify with the tires on the trailer and the tires aired up to 65 PSI, the maximum for D rated tires. So, there was no way for me to know that they were "literally about to explode at any moment"...

I thank my lucky stars that I had that "subconscious urge to get new tires"... Was it a hunch or some intervention that led me to order them from WalMart and tell my DW that we weren't towing the trailer again until I got new tires .... I don't know why, but I'm so thankful that we weren't in the middle of the Mackinac Bridge or barrelling down I-75 at 70MPH when they exploded, which was only a matter of time....

Decide for yourself if you think these were "safe tires for my family" ???

I'm not trying to "scare you into spending money" Just providing the scary situation I was in with TK tires and I didn't even know it was an impending disaster.

[Bill-2020]

18 months? WOW!

I showed the DW pictures of the burnt common wire on the A/C, hence a new A/C is on the way, again (literally an electrical fire, it was that apparent). I won't show her these, I'll just quietly order new ones and call it a night. :whistling:

[CWtheMan]

I advised Cal to put Michelin XPS Ribs on his trailer way back then, however he chose to stay with ST tires, and had many failures with several brands, while I ran 7.5 years and around 40K+ miles on Ribs and then sold them for 200 bucks on CL. I then install Bridgestone Duravis R250's and ran them for another 4 years before selling the trailer.

You neglect to tell the whole story. Your axles were 5200#, Mine were 6000#, the Michelin's provided 3042# of load capacity at 80 PSI leaving very little load capacity reserves for an evenly balance trailer which is hard to do with a full load.

We went with a 3520# load capacity tire. Early on the ST tires were not very reliable beyond the three year mark especially when stacking on the mileage and traveling at 65 MPH.

When I write about trailer tires I stick to the story of how it's supposed to be done. If I'm deviating, I'll say "in my opinion" (IMO).

Like a smart fish, I've learned to stay away from most of the baited statements others use. Once you get off topic the essence of that topic is lost.

[sonofcy]

I am very disappointed in the Maxxis tires I got for my 5er.
I went to pack the wheel bearings and discovered 3 tires out of round, upon further inspection they were delaminating.
I am leaving soon and I am putting a set of Carlisle tires on.
I have attached a picture of one of the tires all three looked like this. I initially thought that I had an alignment issue or bent axle not so.
They are just less than 4 years old and probably around 5,000 miles.

You have a serious alignment issue. Do NOT take it to an RV dealer, take it to an alignment specialist and/or someone who can fix the axles, springs, suspension. Then get Sailun or Goodyear G614's and a TPMS. Consider yourself lucky it will only cost thousands and not tens of thousands.

[JRTJH]

You have a serious alignment issue. Do NOT take it to an RV dealer, take it to an alignment specialist and/or someone who can fix the axles, springs, suspension. Then get Sailun or Goodyear G614's and a TPMS. Consider yourself lucky it will only cost thousands and not tens of thousands.

The OP's tire size for his Cougar 279RKS is 225 75R15 LRD. Neither Sailun or Goodyear G614 produces an ST tire in that size.

[CWtheMan]

The OP's tire size for his Cougar 279RKS is 225 75R15 LRD. Neither Sailun or Goodyear G614 produces an ST tire in that size.

There are ST225/75R15 LRF all steel tires on the market by at least 3 manufacturers. Their maximum load capacity is 3195# @ 95 PSI.

[Snoking]

Then get Sailun or Goodyear G614's and a TPMS. .

To much tire for a trailer with a 10,200 gvwr. Rims most likely not rated for such a tire and are probably 15".

[bbells]

It is out of alignment. If you ever jacked it up with the jack on the axle that is definitely the problem. I have seen trailers less than a year old that need alignment. $250 for an alignment is an inexpensive fix. It will also pull better.

[CraigB]

Samson GL 285T. Great tire!

[Tireman9]

I am very disappointed in the Maxxis tires I got for my 5er.
I went to pack the wheel bearings and discovered 3 tires out of round, upon further inspection they were delaminating.
I am leaving soon and I am putting a set of Carlisle tires on.
I have attached a picture of one of the tires all three looked like this. I initially thought that I had an alignment issue or bent axle not so.
They are just less than 4 years old and probably around 5,000 miles.


Sorry to hear about your problem. Have you sent a complaint to NHTSA (https://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/VehicleComplaint/)? If people do not file complaints, there will never be investigations and if no investigations there is no threat of recall which is an incentive for tire companies to improve their tires. Be sure to get pictures of each tire. You can file a complaint for each tire too. You will need the FULL DOT serial from the tires and VIN of the RV

[Tireman9]

If those Maxxis tires do not have a speed letter or speed rating molded onto the tire sidewall, they are 65 MPH tires.

When tire treads start to separate from the carcass, they will grow. Here is a picture of two identical brand and designated sized tires. The taller one would have had a complete tread separation had it not been found before it could fail.

28847




As a forensic tire engineer I agree with the description that the big tire most likely has failed.

[Tireman9]

The Maxxis' had a speed rating of 70 MPH.
When I am towing I am in no hurry and I keep my speed at 65 or less.
Even though the Carlisle's are rated to 80 I have no intention to change,besides I am on holiday and am in no rush.




You should realize that the "Speed Symbol" is just a measure of heat resistance. The load formula for ST type tires has not changed and the formula is based on a MAX of 65 mph. Not an average or only occasionally but the operating MAX.


I also wonder what your actual scale weight readings were for each tire.

[Harried Harry]

After reading all the comments, I now realize the amount of "good" information must be searched for and found. Just like car salesmen, many tire salesmen will try to sell a tire if they can do it quickly. That said, relying on a tire dealership which has a reputation to maintain, then you are more likely to get decent tires. They may not be the best, but they won't be the worst. If you have the time to wait, they might be able to get very good tires at a reasonable price. So much to learn but not the decades I need to learn it in.

I did learn to cover all my trailer tires when parked to keep the sun off. Now I need to repack the bearings before I use the trailers (I have three) again.

[JRTJH]

As for "tire salesmen and their recommendations"...

Remember that even the "big box stores like COSTCO and SAM'S CLUB" are limited by federal regulations from selling you tires that do not meet the requirements on the tire label found on the side of your trailer or on the driver's door pillar on your truck/car/SUV. They can "sell 'em to you" but they can't "install them on your vehicle, knowing they are not a "manufacturer's recommended/required size/type"... To do so would make them partly liable for any damage/accident that might result. Most won't accept that risk, even if they know the tires will "probably be OK"....

Then there is the "brands carried" limitation. Just as you'd not go to a BUICK dealer to buy a FORD, (the salesman would not recommend a FORD at that dealership) you can't go to just any "tire store" and get "any brand". The salesman will attempt to sell you "what they carry" not "what is the "top of the line in that size and application"... There's several reasons for that, primarily, he can't get something he doesn't carry or that is "franchised or trade restricted to authorized dealers" .. So, while recognizing that "all tires are not equal" you must also recognize that "all tire dealerships are not equal" and that means the "Tire salesman at all dealerships can't recommend/sell all brands"....

Shopping for tires, like shopping for tools, means you've got to first, determine what brand you want and shop at stores that carry that brand. If you don't know or if you don't do your "homework first", you can't go to a BUICK dealership and get "valid information on an F150"... Same with tires....

[pakuma]

As a follow up. I replaced the tires with Carlisle HD, thay have an 80 mph speed rating stamped on the sidewall.
Towed trailer 700 miles, inspected tires, no wear on the outer treads.
I still plan to get it aligned just for extra insurance.
Thank you all for you comments