Wheel well tire clearance

[riorescue]

A few months ago I noticed that my Bullet 273BHSWE tires are rubbing on the wheel well (the Darco material). As a quick fix I applied gorilla tape to cover the thin wood of the subfloor. After a trip last week I noticed the tires hit and wore through the gorilla tape as well. This trailer is 100% stock with stock wheels and tires. A quick rough measurement shows there is only about 1-1.5" of clearance between the top of the tire and the bottom of the trailer floor (at rest). I have tire wear marks on the floor and Darco damage for all four tires. I don't have a trailer dealer close by to check myself but is this clearance normal? Seems like normal travel in the leaf springs would be greater than 1".

[QCMan]

Hi. This may sound silly but have you weighed the unit lately? Weight makes that clearance decrease and most of us tend to pack too much. The other answer might be soft springs. Check your max weight and then go to a scale for the answer.

[riorescue]

Great point and I had considered loaded weight but the clearance measurement is basically empty. We unpacked the trailer except for bedding, glassware, and standard kitchen utensils. The measurement is with 3/4 tank of water onboard which is pretty normal for what we camp with. I am also wondering if the suspension is too soft for the trailer. I looked into lifting blocks/shackles but didn't find much available. Sounds like maybe we need to fully unload everything to see where it sits.

[JRTJH]

I'm not suggesting this is "reality with your trailer" but taking it to a CAT scale and actually putting it on the pads to get a "true weight" is the first step. Even if you had a dealership next door, the first thing Keystone would ask them to verify is the trailer weight...

Imagine the worst for a moment: If there was a large water leak on the roof, it filled your walls with water, saturated the fiberglass insulation, soaked the wood until it's at max capacity, like a sponge, and the flooring is also filled with water from that leak that you are not aware even exists....

That trailer would, because of the problem, weigh many hundreds, possibly thousands of pounds more than the "fresh water we always travel with"...

I'd suggest weighing it and then finding a Keystone dealership that will look at it and document their findings.

[mikec557]

Great point and I had considered loaded weight but the clearance measurement is basically empty. We unpacked the trailer except for bedding, glassware, and standard kitchen utensils. The measurement is with 3/4 tank of water onboard which is pretty normal for what we camp with. I am also wondering if the suspension is too soft for the trailer. I looked into lifting blocks/shackles but didn't find much available. Sounds like maybe we need to fully unload everything to see where it sits.

Josh

Do the CAT scale weighing. But here's another step to add for your own edification. By the way, CAT scales are cheap. The price seems to vary a little across the country but the first weigh usually costs $10-11, the second weigh-in WITHIN 24 HOURS, usually costs $3 *IF*you keep your receipt from the first weigh-in.

Go weigh it with your 3/4 filled fresh water tank and your bedding and kitchen stuff. Then go home and truly empty everything. Then go back and weigh it again. This will tell you how much of your cargo carrying capacity is used up by "just the water, bedding, and kitchen stuff." I think the weight of this stuff alone may surprise you.

Mike

[riorescue]

Based upon the replies I will take the trailer to a CAT scale; maybe twice. However, I am slightly concerned that the replies are indicating weight associated with the most basic supplies. Honestly, with two kids we couldn't travel with the minimal amount of items we have in the trailer now. Does the clearance issue seem "not normal"? Because both sides of the trailer exhibit the same issue I doubt it's a material flaw (i.e. leaf spring failure, etc.). I think my only option at this point would be to lift the trailer 1-2". Any recommendations on options to achieve the lift? Not saying I will not address the weight concerns--just looking for alternatives since removing the little items in the trailer wouldn't be realistic.

[flybouy]

I would visit the scales for the following reasons.
1. You will have a "baseline" ifn you will of what you have and if you do the recommended "two step" method exactly where you are in relation to the carrying capacity.

2. With that scale slip demonstrating that you are within the trailer's limits you take that argument away from the dealer, Keystone or Lippert (or whomever manfg the frame/axles).

I think getting the scale slip would be time and money well spent.

[JRTJH]

Initially, I wouldn't move anything out of the trailer. The "sagging springs" are occurring "as it sits" so you'll want to know the weight "as it sits"...

It does nothing to check a light bulb to see if it works, if the first thing you do is unplug the lamp.

Same with your "possible weight problem"... If you "dramatically reduce the weight by removing all the contents, what you're really doing is "hiding the protential cause of the problem" before even knowing if weight is involved in the issue...

Do the weight, "as it sits now". That will tell you if you're close to your GVW, over your GVW or well within your GVW.

If you're close, spring/axle issues may be a cause, if you're over, spring/axle will be a greater potential to be the cause and if you're substantially under, then spring/axle issues are very likely to be the cause or at least a contributing factor.

Armed with a "proven under GVW" weight slip, you can comfortably go to the dealer and state, "My trailer springs are allowing the tires to contact the DARCO in my wheelwells and I "KNOW and can PROVE" that it's not weight related. Here is the weight slip from my CAT scale weight 30 minutes ago proving it's the trailer equipment NOT an overweight condition.... Now, contact Keystone on my behalf and see what they want you to do to fix the trailer properly.

[riorescue]

I am going to do exactly as suggested and get the trailer on the scales. I am slightly concerned about Keystone doing anything even if I can prove the trailer is not overweight (assuming that is the case). I say this because the trailer is slightly past it's 1 year warranty and I don't believe the 3 year structural warranty covered anything related to axels and suspension components. Perhaps the axels and suspension are warranted by their manufacturer--will look this up as well. Thanks again for the insight and recommendations.

[JRTJH]

I am going to do exactly as suggested and get the trailer on the scales. I am slightly concerned about Keystone doing anything even if I can prove the trailer is not overweight (assuming that is the case). I say this because the trailer is slightly past it's 1 year warranty and I don't believe the 3 year structural warranty covered anything related to axels and suspension components. Perhaps the axels and suspension are warranted by their manufacturer--will look this up as well. Thanks again for the insight and recommendations.

The axles, if Dexter, are warrantied for either 5 or 6 years, if Lippert, for 3 years (and I believe they just extended that time period)... At any rate, the axles/springs are still in warranty on your trailer, so it's probably going to be a "dealer/Lippert" issue, not a dealer/Keystone issue... That will likely go in your favor. Keystone is "hard headed at times" where Lippert, so far, seems to be more "considerate of warranty repairs".... Keep us posted on what you find and what the dealer does... It'll surely help someone else "down the line".....

[Customer1]

I would get a weight slip with it loaded and hit the dealership on the way home from the scale. It could have been built with the wrong suspension.

[Eric363]

riorescue, Have you found a resolve yet? I'm have a similar issue. I have a 29BHS its 3 years old. Last spring I installed a Dexter EZ-flex system. At some point I too noticed that the darco had rub makes on it on all 4 wheels. I do not remembering noticing before or after i installed the EZ Flex. Last August I had a blow-out which did some moderate damage which I repaired. Long story, longer. After my first trip the past week, i noticed the darco with rub makes only on the right front. It finally dawned on me to measure the clearance, and I have only about 2.5". I called Dexter and the warranty person said that the EZ-Flex can lower the ride height. He emailed me some info but I can't find where it says that. Anyway, there is not much info out the on clearances but on etrailers website i found one answer of about 4". I am considering doing a 1.5" axle block. Anybody has any thoughts about axle blocks?


Eric

[JRTJH]

riorescue, Have you found a resolve yet? I'm have a similar issue. I have a 29BHS its 3 years old. Last spring I installed a Dexter EZ-flex system. At some point I too noticed that the darco had rub makes on it on all 4 wheels. I do not remembering noticing before or after i installed the EZ Flex. Last August I had a blow-out which did some moderate damage which I repaired. Long story, longer. After my first trip the past week, i noticed the darco with rub makes only on the right front. It finally dawned on me to measure the clearance, and I have only about 2.5". I called Dexter and the warranty person said that the EZ-Flex can lower the ride height. He emailed me some info but I can't find where it says that. Anyway, there is not much info out the on clearances but on etrailers website i found one answer of about 4". I am considering doing a 1.5" axle block. Anybody has any thoughts about axle blocks?


Eric


What kind of tires do you have on your RV? If they are the OEM tires, you "may" have a tread/carcass separation on that tire that's "closer to the wheelwell than the others"...

[CWtheMan]

Different axle manufacturers and installers may have different SOPs. This is a quote from Dexter; "The general rule is you want to keep 3 inches of vertical clearance above the top of the tire to the wheel well to allow for normal travel of the trailer's suspension."

[Eric363]

My original tires were Westlake ST225/75-15, replaced with Goodyear endurance ST225/75-15. I called a spring shop and over the phone thought maybe I needed a stronger spring. The current springs are 4 leaf 25.5" eye to eye (possibly 25 1/4" as new) measured off the ground with about 3" of arch. On the ground without much stuff in the unit, I measured maybe 2" of arch. Any way of telling spring capacity? I can't find any numbers on the spring. I plan on going to a scale Thursday.

[Eric363]

I did see that also, but somehow I wasn't sure.

[skids]

(Snip) I am considering doing a 1.5" axle block. Anybody has any thoughts about axle blocks? Eric

I noticed that there are OEM axle blocks at the U-Bolts. It is milled to fit the axle. Personally, I wouldn’t just stack a block above the OEM block without considering welding them together. Also, you would be increasing the vertical dimension, There will be more stress on the suspension hanger.

[Eric363]

On mine there are no blocks. Just the spring pad/base.

[rjsurfer]

My camper also had a minimal distance between tire and wheel well, maybe 1 1/2". Tires rubbed multiple times against Darco.

Armed with Cat Scale data sheet went to dealer, they ordered new axles. After the new axles were installed distance increased to almost 3". The interesting thing is that both sets of axles were 4400lb Dexter's, and if I'm not mistaken the new set has one more leaf spring.

They also came with forward adjusting brakes.

Ron W.

[LewisB]

Great point and I had considered loaded weight but the clearance measurement is basically empty. We unpacked the trailer except for bedding, glassware, and standard kitchen utensils. The measurement is with 3/4 tank of water onboard which is pretty normal for what we camp with. I am also wondering if the suspension is too soft for the trailer. I looked into lifting blocks/shackles but didn't find much available. Sounds like maybe we need to fully unload everything to see where it sits.

I concur with all the comments advising getting your rig weighed. In the quote, it appears like you don't think you have much "cargo" - that you have unloaded everything. However, don't forget that cargo is EVERYTHING added to the trailer over and above the initial factory "dry" weight. So, propane, batteries, everything in the storage areas, everything that was not installed by the factory (kitchen, bedroom, bathroom) constitutes "cargo". There will be a sticker on your trailer that lists "available cargo weight". You might be surprised. After you weigh the trailer, you can compare the weight with the factory "dry" weight and get a true picture of your "cargo". Even if that is not your problem, that's a good number to know for the future.

[JRTJH]

My original tires were Westlake ST225/75-15, replaced with Goodyear endurance ST225/75-15. I called a spring shop and over the phone thought maybe I needed a stronger spring. The current springs are 4 leaf 25.5" eye to eye (possibly 25 1/4" as new) measured off the ground with about 3" of arch. On the ground without much stuff in the unit, I measured maybe 2" of arch. Any way of telling spring capacity? I can't find any numbers on the spring. I plan on going to a scale Thursday.

You stated previously, "I had a blowout and it did some damage that I repaired." You also indicated that the "only tire that is close to the wheelwell is the right front"... Was that "blowout that caused damage" located on the right rear?????

The reason I'm asking is this: If the right rear tire failed and did some damage, it seems that you were "towing when the RR tire blew out".. That means the right front tire (the one you're having problems with) carried the "entire right side weight" for some time (from blowout until you stopped and replaced the RR tire). You may (likely did) damage the right front tire during that few moments. If you overloaded the RF tire, you could have caused the tread separation which is "making the tire taller than it should be" and THAT (failed tire) not your suspension is the reason for the reduced clearance.....

Go go post #10 in this thread: https://www.keystoneforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=43366 You'll find a photo of two "identical sized tires, one with tread separation"... looking at that photo, you can see why a damaged tire on your right front axle position could be the reason for your problems.....

[flybouy]

^^ Agree with John's statement. Easiest way to find out is to change out that tire for the spare.

[skids]

^^ Agree with John's statement. Easiest way to find out is to change out that tire for the spare.

Or maybe hit it with a hammer. “Thud” vs. “drummy sound.”

[wiredgeorge]

Eight days since the OP has logged on.

[riorescue]

Yes, I don't login everyday--my job doesn't facilitate constant monitoring here. (sorry about that). My next step will be to take the trailer to the scales but this isn't something I can do tomorrow. I will definitely update everyone when I have a status update. I appreciate all the responses and I also took note of the other community member(s) who reported a similar issue as mine.

[Eric363]

Yes, I do know that every thing is added to the dry weight. Here is the stickers 1200lbs certainly isn't a lot.

[Eric363]

You are correct, sir. The right rear is the one that blew out. I changed all 4 tires this spring, but did one short trip in the fall and a hour trip to the service center prior to changing the tire. Here is what dexter sent for axle specs.

[LewisB]

Yes, I do know that every thing is added to the dry weight. Here is the stickers 1200lbs certainly isn't a lot.

Right. That 1200 lbs is related to tire loading. In the second sticker, you can see that the cargo capacity related to the trailer is 459KG or 1010# with full water tanks and empty waste tanks. So, if you have a WD hitch, a tool box, some water & waste hoses, some camp chairs, a battery operated drill...and the list goes on, it is pretty easy to get to 1000#'s!

One additional note: an RV tends to be sort of a "closed system" from a mass weight standpoint. Fresh water and groceries are all consumed along the way but you assume that after "processing" they are simply transferred to the waste system. This is just a weight transfer issue in a closed system.

However, if you stop and add fuel for your toy hauler, eat at a restaurant, add fresh water for your water tank, DW goes grocery shopping, you have now gone out of the closed system and introduced "new" weight to the system. A worst case scenario would be boon docking for a week, adding fresh water with a jug, filling up your waste tanks, then driving home without dumping. Now, it would be quite possible to be significantly over weight.

All of this borders on BS - I don't worry (much) about stuff like this on a trip - on the other hand, understanding how your rig weight can change and how close you want to be to design limits is a part of good planning and operations. JMHO

[flybouy]

"One additional note: an RV tends to be sort of a "closed system" from a mass weight standpoint. Fresh water and groceries are all consumed along the way but you assume that after "processing" they are simply transferred to the waste system. This is just a weight transfer issue in a closed system."

The human body as in any animal consumes food and water and converts that to energy, perspiration, and waste. It's far from a "closed system".

[Eric363]

Thanks for all the advice. Always very knowable people here. My plan is to patch up the draco, and have it weighed with the basics eg. 15 gals of h2o, a couple chairs. I have a short 1.5 hours trip next week. I'll check for rubbing afterwards and go from there. Thanks again.

[LewisB]

"One additional note: an RV tends to be sort of a "closed system" from a mass weight standpoint. Fresh water and groceries are all consumed along the way but you assume that after "processing" they are simply transferred to the waste system. This is just a weight transfer issue in a closed system."

The human body as in any animal consumes food and water and converts that to energy, perspiration, and waste. It's far from a "closed system".

Right. That’s why I did not use the human body as the example. The concept of an RV as a “closed system from a weight standpoint” was simply offered in the context of how payload can change Or be moved over the course of a long trip. With upwards of 1000 pounds of fresh water in some of our larger Rigs, this weight may be moved around on the rig but will not be lost until we hit a dump station. If we use the fresh water and add more water and groceries, the weight will increase. So knowing and planning for this might be important for some.

Sorry if that got lost in the shuffle.

[markcee]

Thanks for all the advice. Always very knowable people here. My plan is to patch up the draco, and have it weighed with the basics eg. 15 gals of h2o, a couple chairs. I have a short 1.5 hours trip next week. I'll check for rubbing afterwards and go from there. Thanks again.

I would probably get that checked before you travel any great distance- even an hour and a half. I observed a couple of rub marks above both passenger side tires and continuing On the trip with the idea of monitoring the situation. A few hours later I endured my first blowout. After the tire change, the spare blew out 50 miles later. I discovered that same 1.5” of clearance you mention. The cause of the rubbing: both axles bent and replaced as well as the leaf springs on both sides. I am now at my summer location for two months so won’t be weighing until I leave for home but can tell you that after replacement I now have over 3” of clearance, and still have it after about 1500 miles of travel since the work was done.

[CWtheMan]

Yes, I do know that every thing is added to the dry weight. Here is the stickers 1200lbs certainly isn't a lot.

Those load figures were in effect when the vehicle was certified just before leaving the factory.

The cargo final figure before first sale can be changed by the dealer. They are required to amend the cargo capacity labeling when options more than 100# are added prior to first sale.

Since 2007 the weight of the propane system including full tanks is part of GVW when certified.

[Eric363]

I have 2.5" of clearance, which I feel is a little low. But as John pointed out in post#21, I had a blowout of my RR last year and may have caused damage to the RF tire which is the only place where rubbing is happening or happened. With a little bit of luck that would have been the problem.

[Eric363]

FYI, I still have arch in my axles, so I don't think that's the problem.

[Eric363]

So I got weighed, I was moderately loaded 15-20 gals water, chairs and table in front passthrough, grill and canopy in the back and 20lbs of wieght in the fridge. 1.5hr round trip to the scales and unfortunately I still had some minor rubbing above the RF tire. Nothing looks broken or out of the ordinary, except the lower tire clearance. I'm wondering if 6 leaf spring with a tiny higher capacity would make the difference. The 6 leaf is 3/4" taller with a bigger arch. Thanks for any advice!

Eric

[JRTJH]

Eric,

Does your trailer have the Lippert "Correct Track Alignment system" ???

If it does, you'll see "yellow stopsign looking parts" on the front spring hangers.

The reason I ask this: Your trailer, I believe, came with that component system as OEM. The system "lifts" the trailer on its suspension about 2". If, along the way, it got removed, your suspension will sit "about 2" lower than normal"...

A "quick check" under the trailer at the front spring hangers will tell you. If they are there, then you're "on track" to start considering lifting the suspension with bigger spring packs, etc... On the other hand, if there are no "yellow stop signs" on the front spring hanger, installing that system will give you an "immediate 2" suspension lift.....

[Eric363]

John, Thanks for the response. i do not have the correct track system. I did read about it; seems like they are mixed reviews. I was talking to a friend, who is a heavy truck master mechanic, he feels lift blocks may be the way to go. As the weight is well below GVWR. Anybody have any personal experience with the correct track?

[Javi]

John, Thanks for the response. i do not have the correct track system. I did read about it; seems like they are mixed reviews. I was talking to a friend, who is a heavy truck master mechanic, he feels lift blocks may be the way to go. As the weight is well below GVWR. Anybody have any personal experience with the correct track?

My Cougar 333 MKS had Correct Track and CRE 3000 as OEM.. never had a problem with it in the 6 years I owned it..

The Avalanche has the Lippert Road Armor system with the 1/2" thick shackles, bronze bushings, and grease fittings.

[JRTJH]

John, Thanks for the response. i do not have the correct track system. I did read about it; seems like they are mixed reviews. I was talking to a friend, who is a heavy truck master mechanic, he feels lift blocks may be the way to go. As the weight is well below GVWR. Anybody have any personal experience with the correct track?

I'm thinking out loud here, so bear with me.....

The Correct Track system (as far as I know) was standard equipment on your trailer when it was built by Keystone... If it was, then the suspension system was intended to compensate for that additional 2". If the Correct Track was "omitted by the factory" (for some unknown reason) but the spring shackles or spring hangers were not altered, then the trailer will "sit on the springs" 2" lower than intended as OEM....

If I were you, I'd do some research into whether your trailer was "intended to have the Correct Track and it wasn't installed on the assembly line" or if there is another reason why it's missing AND whether the suspension was modified/changed to compensate for that 2" loss in trailer height (which would directly translate to 2" loss in wheelwell height)....

What I'm getting at is that Keystone may have screwed up on the line when they built your trailer and it wasn't caught by the factory, the dealer, you at purchase.... until you started having wheelwell clearance issues, which "might be directly caused by the missing parts that should have been on your trailer"......

[Eric363]

John, I will look into it. Thanks!

[pstltaz]

As a side note. You might be surprised what keystone may warranty. I had a leak issue 7 months out of warranty. After some bitching and complaining they covered the repair and replaced the carpet also. I've found that the first person you talk to on the phone can't/ won't do squat for you, but demand to speak with a supervisor and you may get the help your looking for. Just my 2 cents worth. Either way, hope you get it worked out.

[GaryAG]

Our 364Q was doing the same thing, broke frame. Might check.

[BAPotter]

I had the same problem with my Bullet 251RBSWE. After consulting the Lippert spring charts I found that stock springs have 1 1/2” drop. Mine had sagged to 1 1/8”. I also discovered that the Keystone spec showed the East coast model uses 14” wheels and the West coast model uses 15” wheels. After consulting with Lippert engineers they confirmed that they build the frames/suspension the same for east and west so the 15” wheels will definitely be closer to the fender. Their engineers suggested that I go up two spring weights, to the 2200 lb,with 2” drop. (Normally only one spring weight, but they concurred I needed to get more spacing and the slightly heavier spring wouldn’t give as much). Thishas solved all the problems.

[hazmat456]

Just flip the axle and be done with it. You will gain more than 3 inches in height and will need to adjust your hitch to compensate. But you won't have to worry so much about approach angles either.

[LewisB]

Just flip the axle and be done with it. You will gain more than 3 inches in height and will need to adjust your hitch to compensate. But you won't have to worry so much about approach angles either.

When you say "flip the axle" I hope you don't mean turning it upside down to move the spring perch from the bottom to the top! Trailer axles are built with a specified amount of arch so that they flex and straighten when they take the design load. Turning the axle upside down will put wrong angles on the entire suspension, kill the tires, etc.

If you mean "do a spring over conversion" by keeping the axle right-side up and installing new spring perches on the top of the axle, then that can be done if done properly.

[JRTJH]

Just flip the axle and be done with it. You will gain more than 3 inches in height and will need to adjust your hitch to compensate. But you won't have to worry so much about approach angles either.

When you say "flip the axle" I hope you don't mean turning it upside down to move the spring perch from the bottom to the top! Trailer axles are built with a specified amount of arch so that they flex and straighten when they take the design load. Turning the axle upside down will put wrong angles on the entire suspension, kill the tires, etc.

If you mean "do a spring over conversion" by keeping the axle right-side up and installing new spring perches on the top of the axle, then that can be done if done properly.

Crawl under your trailer and look at the suspension. I can't name one "flat floor slide RV that doesn't already have the springs on top of the axles... The days of "springs under the axle" are, for the most part, ancient history, at least on Keystone trailers... From what I've seen, if there's a slide, they all have the springs on top of the axles as OEM.

[LewisB]

Crawl under your trailer and look at the suspension. I can't name one "flat floor slide RV that doesn't already have the springs on top of the axles... The days of "springs under the axle" are, for the most part, ancient history, at least on Keystone trailers... From what I've seen, if there's a slide, they all have the springs on top of the axles as OEM.

Thanks John - I'll take your word regarding Keystone trailers. However, "flipping the axles" is quite common with utility trailers, tent trailers, etc. in an attempt to gain ground clearance. That's probably where the previous poster came up with "Just flip the axle and be done with it."

The point I was trying to convey to that previous post is that ANY trailer with a designed axle system (Dexter, LCI, etc.) can not simply be flipped upside down and used that way because it screws up the design geometry of the system.

[JRTJH]

Thanks John - I'll take your word regarding Keystone trailers. However, "flipping the axles" is quite common with utility trailers, tent trailers, etc. in an attempt to gain ground clearance. That's probably where the previous poster came up with "Just flip the axle and be done with it."

The point I was trying to convey to that previous post is that ANY trailer with a designed axle system (Dexter, LCI, etc.) can not simply be flipped upside down and used that way because it screws up the design geometry of the system.

I completely agree with your statement about "flipping" the axle geometry. Axle tubes are "bent in a curve" and that camber is required so that when loaded, the wheels sit "perpendicular to the ground". In other words, so the tires will sit flat on the pavement... You're correct in the way "axle systems are designed" and the axles can not be "turned upside down to gain height"...

That said, "years ago" RV's were built with springs under the axles (similar to the way many utility trailers are currently built)... Many of those older RV's sat very close to the ground and typically there was only a 1 step entry staircase. Today's trailers typically already have "springs on top of the axles", 3 or 4 step entry staircases and flat floor slides with "NO wheelwells intruding inside the cabin".... That's the "hallmark of modern RV's"... flat floors, no "wheelwell bump with a sofa built on top of it" and "extremely high interior floors, when compared to the ground outside... In some cases with larger toyhaulers, there's 5 steps to the ground...

The point I was making is that on the OP's trailer, the "axles are already flipped" (meaning the springs are mounted on top of the axles)...

In the past 10 years, people have argued about "how to jack a trailer". Is it by the U bolts under the axles or is it by the frame... In years past (more than 10 years ago), there was no discussion because nearly all the springs were under the axles and we all jacked on the springs, not the axles.... Not so on today's trailers. All the springs are on top of the axles and we "argue about whether it's safe to jack on the axle tube, the U bolts or the frame rails 24-36" above the ground....

[hazmat456]

No flipping the axle dose not mean mounting it upside down. It means flipping positions with the spring.
A vast majority of trailers are built with the axle above the spring, the easiest and least expensive way to gain ground clearance is to position it below the spring. Etrailer even makes a no weld kit for doing this. The only other safe method is to mount new spring mounts to the frame or building a subframe to lower the spring mounts. Never use blocks between the spring and axle, it will cause excess tire ware and a pothole has the potential to misalign the axle more easily.

[shermris]

I have a Bullet 248 RKS the clearance is over 5" above the rear wheels and 6" above the front when loaded but w/o any water in the fresh water tank. Your Bullet is only a year old so the springs should be in new condition. I would contact the dealer to ensure the tires are the correct size. Water weighs 8.33# a gallon so half a tank of water would only be about 200#.

[uechikid]

I know this thread is a couple years old now, but I have the same issue with my bullet 269rls. I’m planning to take it to a CAT scale near home when we get home. But I’d like to know how or if this was resolved.
Thanks

[Eric363]

For me, I removed my dexter ez-flex system and installed Lippert Road Armor Shock Absorbing Equalizers. That raised it up enough that I haven't had rubbing since. But, still a little close IMO. Not sure if your situation is the same.

[riorescue]

After starting this thread I ended up working with LCI to determine if the suspension components had issues or defects. I was requested to put together formal documentation complete with pictures and clear description of the issues. I ended up creating a 22 page document that detailed the concerns with pictures including axle angles using a straightedge (tire to tire across the axle). What I realized is that even with the trailer unloaded the axle configuration (weight rating) is likely far too little for my 273BHSWE. I’ve found pictures online of my trailer model brand new showing the exact same 1-2” clearance above the tires. I also included photos of the leaf springs which have very little arc to them—almost laying flat (these are 4-stack leaf springs). LCI reviewed the documentation and said they would send two new axle assemblies at no cost. The issue though is that they required a service center to install them (and they wouldn’t cover labor). I reached out to Keystone to let them know I had been working with LCI on this issue and to see if they could organize the service appointment to have the new axles installed. They actually replied in email with some legalese lawyer type language stating “we decline to get involved or assist in any way with this issue”. Short version…don’t expect much assistance from Keystone on this issue. Also interesting to note. I worked with a great engineer at LCI and he mentioned a couple times that they’ve received numerous calls related to low trailers and overall the axle rating used was not sufficient for the trailer weight.

Given I travel a lot and I care more about traveling then having my trailer sit unused I’ve simply ignored the issue and I slap on some tape after every trip to cover the holes the tires wear through the floor. At the time I called around to trailer shops including where I purchased my trailer and they all had 3-6 months (or longer) service wait times. Just didn’t want to go through the process.

Working with etrailers.com I think a quick fix would be to replace the leaf springs with a 5-pack (stiffer) configuration which would lift the trailer a little and likely mitigate the issue. The problem there of course is that it’s not a fix—it’s just a workaround and will also add to a stiffer ride.

Overall, we get tons of use out of our Keystone trailer. The trailer has issues for sure—seems like every trip I find something fun to fix (i.e. dometic thermostat, dometic thermoster on refer, propane regulator leaked out 2 5 gallon tanks overnight in an RV park causing a small panic). LOL. I would honestly say though that Keystone has not been super helpful from a customer service perspective. This is my experience—your mileage may vary.

[CedarCreekWoody]

My keystone sat too low in relation to my truck so I raised it two inches by installing lifts on the spring shackles. These are available through etrailer.com. While I didn't have a tire clearance issue this increased the clearance nearly 2 inches. This might resolve your issues.

[uechikid]

Thanks everyone for your quick replies. We are currently using the trailer 600 miles from home. We had a blowout on our way here. I’m convinced that it was caused from constant bouncing and rubbing the floor of the trailer.
You’ve been a great help and given me some ideas to fix the problem.

[wegone]

Very similar to the issues I was having with my trailer 2019 Keystone - Bullet
Floorplan: 265RBIWE.

I posted here https://www.keystoneforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=50476

I didn't even know at this point they had rubbed on the right side.

The new axles and components look beefier now, and after just completing over 2k trip with no issues, or folks flagging me down from behind....

I think its fixed.

Of note, and my wife saw it too, before with the other springs, axles, etc, the trailer was exactly level with my truck, now it's higher and dips enough to notice at the WDH.

Maybe I will adjust that, what do you all think?

[Trophyhunt]

Glad I found this forum, we have a 2019 29’ bunkhouse model and all 4 tires have rubbed the bottom of the floor to the wood! Very low clearance, haven’t measured but sounds just like the original poster has. Sounds like we need different axles?? And the dealer should know about this issue?? Thanks all.

[skids]

Someone said that when tread separation from the carcass happens, the diameter of the tire increases dramatically. Then, the damn thing explodes while going down the highway! But don't worry about it, maybe it was an old wive's tale ... maybe.

[JRTJH]

Yep, tire tread separation is the "last chance to stop" (that we seldom have the time to do) before the tread starts "slapping the trailer underside"...

There's a "easy to recognize profile change" (if you're looking) but who is "looking at tires when towing 70 MPH down the interstate"....

Tread separation could easily be the cause of "loss of wheelwell clearance"....

Note the taller profile as well as the rounded tread surface...

[Trophyhunt]

We had one tire blow already, China bomb !

[Trophyhunt]

So the dealership put on extensions that Keystone sent them and paid for them to do the work, and then they fixed the underneath material which was great, but when I got home, I noticed all four tires had rubbed on the underbelly again. I measured and I have two and five eights inch clearance from the top of the tire to the underbelly, way too little. So I called Keystone directly. They had me take it to a scale. Take pictures of it and email them the certified scale weight of 6400 pounds. The tire is also rubbing on the side of the trailer not just the roof, I told him this sent him all the pictures they wanted, and I haven’t heard back in three days. If they just blow me off, we are either going to sell the trailer, or have a small RV repair company come and put blocks on the axle, I just don’t want the ride to change and get real rough

[JRTJH]

So the dealership put on extensions that Keystone sent them and paid for them to do the work, and then they fixed the underneath material which was great, but when I got home, I noticed all four tires had rubbed on the underbelly again. I measured and I have two and five eights inch clearance from the top of the tire to the underbelly, way too little. So I called Keystone directly. They had me take it to a scale. Take pictures of it and email them the certified scale weight of 6400 pounds. The tire is also rubbing on the side of the trailer not just the roof, I told him this sent him all the pictures they wanted, and I haven’t heard back in three days. If they just blow me off, we are either going to sell the trailer, or have a small RV repair company come and put blocks on the axle, I just don’t want the ride to change and get real rough

You posted this on Monday evening, so backing up 3 days would mean that you sent it on Friday ??? Keystone would have received it sometime Friday, and by the time they reviewed their emails, sent the photos and weight slip to their engineering department, it was likely "late Friday afternoon". Most engineering support offices at Keystone close shortly after the day shift stops building trailers. Most days, that's around 1PM or at the latest, 2PM.

So, on a Friday afternoon, after the plant has closed and most people are in "end of week wind-down" I wouldn't expect much "timely response from the factory"...

Give them a week or so to review your photos, research the "parts record on your VIN build" and discuss the problem and possible solutions.... Wheels on this type of problem don't "turn from problem to solution in one shift"....

You may not hear back for a week or so, and if it's any longer than that, I'd contact them for a status update.

If the above "timeline" is somewhat close to when you sent the photos, you won't hear anything for at least 2 or 3 more days.

[Trophyhunt]

You posted this on Monday evening, so backing up 3 days would mean that you sent it on Friday ??? Keystone would have received it sometime Friday, and by the time they reviewed their emails, sent the photos and weight slip to their engineering department, it was likely "late Friday afternoon". Most engineering support offices at Keystone close shortly after the day shift stops building trailers. Most days, that's around 1PM or at the latest, 2PM.

So, on a Friday afternoon, after the plant has closed and most people are in "end of week wind-down" I wouldn't expect much "timely response from the factory"...

Give them a week or so to review your photos, research the "parts record on your VIN build" and discuss the problem and possible solutions.... Wheels on this type of problem don't "turn from problem to solution in one shift"....

You may not hear back for a week or so, and if it's any longer than that, I'd contact them for a status update.

If the above "timeline" is somewhat close to when you sent the photos, you won't hear anything for at least 2 or 3 more days.
Thanks for that insite, makes sense, my time frame could be a day off but either way appreciate the info. My biggest gripe is why not a simple email that communicates w me? Something quick and easy like, “ we received your pics and will let you know?” I’ve sent at least two emails asking if they received my pics, nothing. Communication is the key to happy customers.

[JRTJH]

Thanks for that insite, makes sense, my time frame could be a day off but either way appreciate the info. My biggest gripe is why not a simple email that communicates w me? Something quick and easy like, “ we received your pics and will let you know?” I’ve sent at least two emails asking if they received my pics, nothing. Communication is the key to happy customers.

I won't disagree with you and also would consider a confirmation email as a "business obligation to their customer"... But, that ain't the way Keystone rolls.....

[sourdough]

Thanks for that insite, makes sense, my time frame could be a day off but either way appreciate the info. My biggest gripe is why not a simple email that communicates w me? Something quick and easy like, “ we received your pics and will let you know?” I’ve sent at least two emails asking if they received my pics, nothing. Communication is the key to happy customers.



Your expectations are the same as mine...unfortunately businesses (many more than Keystone) just don't see it that way. I was supposed to receive a confirmation email from company (non RV related) on 2/23 per their comments. I received it, finally, on 6/9/23 after I harrassed them about status. That's just one of many examples. It seems the post Covid world took us about 3 steps backward.

[flybouy]

Thanks for that insite, makes sense, my time frame could be a day off but either way appreciate the info. My biggest gripe is why not a simple email that communicates w me? Something quick and easy like, “ we received your pics and will let you know?” I’ve sent at least two emails asking if they received my pics, nothing. Communication is the key to happy customers.

I don't know what software you are using for emails so I'll preface this with I use MS Outlook. If sending an important email I'll open up the options and check "send receive recipt" and "send read receipt ". By doing this I'll have two confirmations. The first will be the exact moment their server received the email and secondly, the exact moment the recipient OPENED the email

By this simple method the recipient cannot deny that the email "never came through" or that thay haven't seen it .