Need A Smoother Town Ride...

[Dan Lockwood]

I've got the standard Keystone Raptor solid pin box.

On the tow up to MI from MO, some of the roads were so rough that the bucking, chucking, or whatever it's called, was so bad I actually pulled off the road to look the rig over. The front of my truck was jumping up and down several inches on each jerk. I always have had that little back and forth on slow speeds, but this is so bad I can't go to Sturgis and back like this. That's 32 hours of driving with the possibility of this horrible chucking.

So I see Lipert had a couple and Mor-Ryde had a couple. Maybe I have their brand names confused.

Both have a rubber only and both have rubber plus airbag, rubber and shocks.

I've also seen a swivel pin head, but I can't see that being of any use with a swivel lower hitch plate. Seems like the two swivels would just be way too loose.

Which brand of rubber only or rubber and airbag with shock do y'all recommend?

Any experienced travelers out there that have used the original plain solid pin box and then upgraded to the rubber, or rubber plus airbag and shock pin box?

Thanks in advance and hope you all had a great 4th weekend...��

[chuckster57]

Granted my fiver isn’t nearly as heavy but I changed from a solid pin box to a trail air with the rubber block. It made a big difference.

[JRTJH]

Dan,

I'd start with a trip to a CAT scale (when loaded like you were when the problems occurred) and get an accurate weight of the rig, the truck and use that to determine the "real pin weight"... You might find that your pin weight is too light.

What happens on rough roads is the truck goes up with the bump, then as the truck is going down, the trailer is going up, causing the kingpin to "slam up into the hitch"... Then, as the trailer settles back down after the bump, the kingpin "bangs down on the hitch"...

With a light pin weight, the problem is worse. With enough pin weight, the kingpin will stay "riding in the hitch" without the slamming and banging....

Typically, manufacturers give a pin weight range of 15-25% of trailer weight.
Most trailers "buck and chuck" with weights below around 20% and ride best around 22%.

The reason why manufacturers use that range??? At 15%, they can call them "half ton towable".... Even if the owner can't stay seated in the driver's seat with the pin at that weight, it's "in the range, so you're OK to tow"...

Advertising and marketing rather than engineering......:facepalm:

[travelin texans]

As for TrailAir hitches the best of both is the TrailAir FlexAir. Has a rubber mounted pin with the shock/airbag. If using this hitch you'll have experiment with different airbag pressures as usually their recommended pressure is too much, at least in my case.

[chuckster57]

Mine is just the rota flex.

[Big 417]

I have the morrlyde rubber pin box. It's ok, does it prevent chucking, not completely. I have a fuzion 417, pin weight is #3400 ish. I believe it has the heaviest spring weight rubber pad, but I occasionally get a "sling shot" effect after take off. Like the pin goes back then snaps ahead. Scary at first, used to it now. I try and visually inspect the rubber as best I can often.

[Dan Lockwood]

http://pic80.picturetrail.com/VOL846/863774/24841920/414296256.jpg

My stock pin box has three vertical rows of bolts and has two bolts in each row. The replacement pin boxes seem to all have just two vertical rows of bolt holes. Are these a replacement or not? Do I need to have all three rows of bolts as my stock pin box has?

The stock pin box has a front tag that in part reads:
Pinbox Rating: 19,000 lbs
CSA: Z240 1.2-M1981-3.2

What will fit as a replacement for me?

Also I'm getting frustrated posting this as my wifi at the RV park SUCKS! AND it keeps deleting on me and I have to retype it every time. I've tried to copy before it does this, but that's crapped out on me twice. Maybe third times the charm... :)

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks, Dan

[sourdough]

http://pic80.picturetrail.com/VOL846/863774/24841920/414296256.jpg

My stock pin box has three vertical rows of bolts and has two bolts in each row. The replacement pin boxes seem to all have just two vertical rows of bolt holes. Are these a replacement or not? Do I need to have all three rows of bolts as my stock pin box has?

The stock pin box has a front tag that in part reads:
Pinbox Rating: 19,000 lbs
CSA: Z240 1.2-M1981-3.2

What will fit as a replacement for me?

Also I'm getting frustrated posting this as my wifi at the RV park SUCKS! AND it keeps deleting on me and I have to retype it every time. I've tried to copy before it does this, but that's crapped out on me twice. Maybe third times the charm... :)

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks, Dan


Dan, I can't help on the pin box as I'm new at this game and learning but I can surely empathize with the wifi situation!! Hang in there, hopefully someone has the answer soon and you won't have to try to post and deal with it.

[fjr vfr]

Dan,
I second what John said above. Get to a CAT scale, spend $10 bucks and weigh your set up fully loaded. Go back and weigh just the truck, $2 more for a re-weigh. Find out if you have enough pin weight. Less than 20% will often do just what is happening.


John

[roadglide]

Before I added air shocks to my 1 ton single rear wheel my lighter weight fusion bounce on the overloads . With 6800 lbs loaded GAWR. I added the airlift 5000 wish I had used 7000 airlift airbags with 50 pounds of air in each bag keeps the weight is off overload Springs . The biggest improvement was dumping the jaw hitch to use The Anderson ball hitch. I will be in Sturgis this year . I think it will be a small rally because of the travel ban on foreigners and people not having the money to attend. I argue the second weight I don’t care as long as the weight is under the GAWR RR.

[twvette]

I just switched from the MorRyde Rubber Pin Box with Andersen hitch to Reese Goosebox that has air bag and a 4in offset ball. The previous setup was fairly good but still a much better ride with the air bag Goosebox. I also tried a Trail Air Air Ride hitch with the Andersen but it did not work in the offset position as too much leverage on the airbag. With the Goosebox it is also nice to have a clean truck bed. Your pin box looks exactly like mine and Reese has an adapter/spacer kit that works with it.

[notanlines]

Dan, the most common pinbox on the road with better than average satisfaction is the MORryde rubber box.
https://www.morryde.com/products/rubber-pin-box/
I believe your RV is three axle. I'd start with John's (and other's) advice with the CAT scale and make sure that your pin weight is greater than 4000 pounds.
Also make sure that your tire pressures on both TV and RV are at maximum pressure.
With your RV hitched and ready to roll, make sure your present 5th wheel hitch has no slack. Lubed with less than 1/8th inch would be ideal. No partially full fresh water tank. Full or empty is going to be best.

[gearhead]

I changed out a OEM pinbx on a 2014 Montana HC 305RL. It was a pretty light trailer, maybe 11,000# GVW?. I went to a 5th Airborne. It had a rubber bladder and a shock absorber. It worked well.
The Landmark had a 18,000GVW MoRRyde rubber pin box when I bought it. It started slamming pretty hard on starts and I thought the rubber block had failed. I ordered a higher capacity block than the 18,000 that I had. I think I went up to 20 or 22,000. Replaced the rubber that looked as good as the new one. It still slammed. I then realized I had the foot pads for my hitched reversed. Fixed that and kept the original block for a spare.
MoRRyde has a You Tube video on how to replace the rubber block. You'll need sockets, a torque wrench, blue Loctite and a helper.
If there was a Goosebox made with enough capacity I would buy that tomorrow.

[pitman44]

Also I'm getting frustrated posting this as my wifi at the RV park SUCKS! AND it keeps deleting on me and I have to retype it every time. I've tried to copy before it does this, but that's crapped out on me twice. Maybe third times the charm... :)


We have a Goose Box and are extremely happy with the ride. Not sure if it would be suitable for your rig though. The heaviest one is rated at 20,000# and 4,000# pin weight.


On another note regarding your internet if you're using a cellular router see if yours will accept a MIMO antennae. They're fairly cheap at ~$40 and made a HUGE difference with ours. Speedtest improved from 2-10 times compared to just the router's internal antennas. This is the one we use. https://www.amazon.com/Netgear-6000450-MIMO-Antenna-Connectors/dp/B00DN3J03O/ref=sr_1_1?dchild=1&keywords=Netgear+6000450+MIMO&qid=1592162005&sr=8-1

[Hblick48]

I had major chucking and bucking. Installed Reese 5th Airborn pin box and all of the chucking and bucking is gone!

[Genek]

Granted my fiver isn’t nearly as heavy but I changed from a solid pin box to a trail air with the rubber block. It made a big difference.

What’s your pin weight? My 3120rl is just under 3,000 lbs. and needs some help in the chucking department. I currently have the LCI with rubber block connected to an Anderson hitch. It’s a medium range problem that gets to me after awhile. I don’t want to over buy a new pin box to resolve the the issue. You have a b lot more experience than I do so your comments would be gratefully appreciated.

[NevadaRich]

Dan,

You didn't list what model your RV is or your Truck, but as mentioned above, Go to the CAT Scales first, then make sure stuff is where it should be?? I have a Voltage 3895 now with a Dually...I run with a CamAm side by side, my weight is about 26K....I had to adjust the weight in the RV to make sure I had good pin weight....I don't have any Chucking

[CaptnJohn]

My PW is right about 3000#, full FW a tad more as tank is in front of the axels. I thought the Anderson would help. Installed before a long trip. So happy wit it upon my return I took it to the recycle center as I'd not stick anyone else with it. Back to my B&W added some weight to the passthrough and tow with a full FW tank. Problem solved. My Montana has a huge amount of storage behind the axels under the rear bedroom and even more under the bath at the rear (2019 3761FL). With the PW closer to 3300# or more it's pretty smooth towing.

[Dan Lockwood]

Dan,

You didn't list what model your RV is or your Truck, but as mentioned above, Go to the CAT Scales first, then make sure stuff is where it should be?? I have a Voltage 3895 now with a Dually...I run with a CamAm side by side, my weight is about 26K....I had to adjust the weight in the RV to make sure I had good pin weight....I don't have any Chucking

Rich, sorry about that. I had posted another thread about being a VERY heavy rig, here's the copy of that post.

I have not yet gone back to CAT Scales to weigh just my truck to get a front/rear axle weight without the 5er attached. But I do know that my truck with full fuel and myself and wife aboard, it weighs in at just a few pounds over 8,400#. But at that weigh in it was not separated weights, just the whole truck on one scales at the land fill after dumping off some tree debris.

Well after many readings on the forum and not being able to travel until now, I was only speculating on what I "should" haul weight wise.

Forgot to mention that I have a Raptor 395LEV that has a gross of 18K. I also just this past Thursday upgraded to all new Sailun S637 G 14 ply tires. They look awesome on the rig! Thanks for the heads up on the Sailuns… :)

But as many have said, once you're an owner, there's not much to do but to either live with it, or start from scratch. I'll say now that I'm going to live with what I have and try to make the best of "my" situation.

Here are my '12 RAM door stickers.

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https://www.keystoneforums.com/forums/images/statusicon/wol_error.gifThis image has been resized. Click this bar to view the full image.http://pic80.picturetrail.com/VOL846/863774/24841920/414255937.jpg

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I probably only needed to post the last picture, but they are free to post, just in case they're needed... :)

Also, I only had one Harley loaded. I have two B&W Biker Bars installed and the first of August will be leaving for a month with both of my Harleys, so add another 900# to the trailer axle weight! We're also packed pretty much the same for this two week trip as we will pack for the Sturgis Rally in August. But we may also add our riding leathers, so there's possibly another hundred pounds or so that will be behind the trailer axles.

Drum roll please...…………

Steering Axle: 5000#
Drive Axle: 7560#
Trailer Axle: 13680#
Total: 26240#

Again this is probably light on the trailer axle by 1000#. When we leave for Sturgis the first of August for a month on the road, I will have both Harleys, not just the one.After many looks at pin boxes in the RV park I was just at in Mt Pleasant MI for a couple weeks, I've ordered a new Mor-Ryde RPB72-1116-06 pin box. I found one seller on eBay for $603 with free shipping! Talked to many last week with the Mor-Ryde pin box and they said good things about them. The RV shop didn't know much about them nor their own LCI air ride pin hitches that come on the Cedar Creek models.

So I'll give it a try and if not happy, sell it and try something else. I do know that mine is a three row two bolt per row setup and most all of what I've seen on 5er's and online are all two row with three bolts per row. Don't know if it's a weight thing or just that's what they did in 2012.

I hauled back to MO from MI yesterday without any issues, other that damn bad roads... :( MI was the worst, but IL came in a close second. One transition under an overpass was so bad that it dislodged my sliding doors in my master bedroom! It was a HUGE drop in the road. Don't think the Mor-Ryde would have helped much there though.

I also have Air Lift 7000# air bags. On the way up I put in 25#, but on the way home I put in 45#. The higher pounds seemed to help a bit as well.

I plan on weighing again on my way to Sturgis in a couple weeks. I'll have both Harleys loaded and a bit more gear. I know my basement was almost empty for heavy stuff. I have a 150 psi small compressor, but other than that just a small grill and my sewer and hoses etc. From what I'm guessing, I could probably load more in the basement rather than in the garage, like my 10'x10' canopy, chairs and carpets etc. I'll do a complete weight and then go unhook and weigh just the truck to get front/rear individual weights. I looked at a CAT Scale on the way home and the third scale section is too far to the rear for me to drop my front legs and go neutral on the pin box to truck hitch. I'll follow up from Hill City SD in a few weeks!

Thanks again to all for the thoughts and suggestions.

[Jerry S]

My PW is right about 3000#, full FW a tad more as tank is in front of the axels. I thought the Anderson would help. Installed before a long trip. So happy wit it upon my return I took it to the recycle center as I'd not stick anyone else with it. Back to my B&W added some weight to the passthrough and tow with a full FW tank. Problem solved. My Montana has a huge amount of storage behind the axels under the rear bedroom and even more under the bath at the rear (2019 3761FL). With the PW closer to 3300# or more it's pretty smooth towing.

What was it that you liked so much about your Anderson that you took it to a recycle center.

[jimborokz]

On our first 5er with the basic slider hitch and solid pinbox I was surprised at how much chucking I got. First thing I did was add one of those nylon lubing discs to the pin box and that eliminated 90% of the chucking. I didn't do anything further. A $10 fix.
Our current Monty came with the MorRyde hitch. I added the nylon disc right off before I ever hooked it up. I get no chucking with this set up.

[roadglide]

On our first 5er with the basic slider hitch and solid pinbox I was surprised at how much chucking I got. First thing I did was add one of those nylon lubing discs to the pin box and that eliminated 90% of the chucking. I didn't do anything further. A $10 fix.
Our current Monty came with the MorRyde hitch. I added the nylon disc right off before I ever hooked it up. I get no chucking with this set up.

Amazing how a $ 10 Teflon ring on the pin could keep the fifer from slamming at stops and go movement . Honestly I thought ring was only used as a slide to keep the two plates from metal to metal .

[jimborokz]

Amazing how a $ 10 Teflon ring on the pin could keep the fifer from slamming at stops and go movement . Honestly I thought ring was only used as a slide to keep the two plates from metal to metal .

What you say is correct, and face to face lubrication is what I got it for. I'm guessing the thickness of the disc took up most of the vertical slop in the pin. All I know is most of the chucking stopped.

That was my first 5er. Maybe I just got smoother at starting and stopping as I went along.

[Dan Lockwood]

Thanks for the comments!

My Raptor already has the disc on the pin box and the only grease I have is on the pin itself. I see my jaws on the B&W Companion hitch rides about a 1/16" from the bottom lip on the pin groove. So in my case I can see how tight it is to start with. I plan on just prying off the disc and reusing it on the new Mor-Ryde pin box.

Dan