12 volt Fridge

[Keystoned]

Seems like these are coming back in new models, no propane, just battery.
Scratching my head on this. How much battery power is required? Seems like it would be a lot IMHO.

[chuckster57]

Which models? All I’m seeing is still 2 way refers.

[Keystoned]

Maybe not keystones yet but looked at an arctic wolf yesterday and the fridge was huge.

[flybouy]

Are you looking at a residential fridge? They do not operate on gas but only 120vac. They typically have an inverter to change the 12vdc to 120 vac primarily for travel. The operating of the fridge by the inverter takes a lot of amp hours from the house batteries.

[Keystoned]

I have no idea why, but the salesman said this is the trend, that is all you will find shortly. When I questioned the power drain he said, not a problem...

[flybouy]

I have no idea why, but the salesman said this is the trend, that is all you will find shortly. When I questioned the power drain he said, not a problem...

Of course the salesman said that. He'd tell you it could be towed at warp speed by a Prius if he thought that would get you to buy it.:D

[Keystoned]

We were looking at their smaller 5th wheels, so not a residential type at all. I wasn't buying into his speel...just thought I'd share this 'new trend' here.

[Keystoned]

This is it, Furrion
https://furrion.com/products/furrion-arctic-10-cu-ft-12v-refrigerator

Energy Consumption: 1.08kWh per day

[chuckster57]

Reminds me of the 12V refers used in the Coachman class b motorhome. The ones I have dealt with arent Furrion but they got cold rather quickly and were extremely quiet.

[JRTJH]

Furrion has introduced a 10 cuft "frost free" refrigerator for the RV market. It operates on 12 VDC with no propane requirement. Here's a link to the specifications brochure. https://cdn.accentuate.io/1906111250521/5237057388633/MS-FCR10DCBTA-V1.2.pdf

It hasn't yet been installed in many RV's and it appears that Forest River is getting an "exclusive opportunity" to introduce it in their products, much like Lippert provided "exclusive opportunity" to Keystone for the first travel trailer "level-up system" and Goodyear offered "exclusive opportunity" to Jayco for Goodyear Endurance tires.

The Furrion DC refrigerator may go the way of the Atwood HE2 refrigerator or it may become a "RV hit"... Time will tell...

[Keystoned]

How does that 1.08kWh per day spec sound to any boon dockers out there?

[flybouy]

I think boon dockers would be more interested in the 11 amp @ 12vdc specs:
High Efficiency DC Compressor
Input voltage: DC 12V (min. DC 10.5V to max. DC 17V)
Input power rating: ≤ 15A (11A @ 12V DC)

Energy Consumption: 1.08kWh per day

[sourdough]

Personally I would want the 2 way fridge with the LP option if I was boondocking. There are just TOO many battery issues and potential problems that would put that fridge in the dirt.

Additionally, I've never owned a Furrion anything until this High Country. I can safely say that the products are the most cheaply built junk I've ever encountered. Already dumped the receiver/stereo and speakers, the fireplace will get replaced if I can find one that will fit the hole along with the TV when I get back to home base. And their customer service.....oh wait, WHAT customer service - they don't respond but if they do it is useless jibberish. Nope, I would keep that thing at 100 paces and use it for target practice I'm thinking.

[Bill-2020]

Personally I would want the 2 way fridge with the LP option if I was boondocking. There are just TOO many battery issues and potential problems that would put that fridge in the dirt.

Additionally, I've never owned a Furrion anything until this High Country. I can safely say that the products are the most cheaply built junk I've ever encountered. Already dumped the receiver/stereo and speakers, the fireplace will get replaced if I can find one that will fit the hole along with the TV when I get back to home base. And their customer service.....oh wait, WHAT customer service - they don't respond but if they do it is useless jibberish. Nope, I would keep that thing at 100 paces and use it for target practice I'm thinking.

Man, I can't believe you're bashing the manufacturer of my 3" high useless oven! :D.

(Ok, ok... so I can bake a pan of frozen cookies for the grandkids and they think it's the absolute bomb!)

[flybouy]

Man, I can't believe you're bashing the manufacturer of my 3" high useless oven! :D.

(Ok, ok... so I can bake a pan of frozen cookies for the grandkids and they think it's the absolute bomb!)

3" ????? Really ?????? Man, you must have opted for the extra large one!:lol:

[K and D]

Looking at Keystones with my son and we observed the 12 volt DC Fridge is becoming very prevalent in new rvs. They do seem to provide more cubic feet than the 2-way as there are fewer cooling parts. He did purchase a Keystone Cross Roads with a Norcold N10DC. Following research we feel two batteries is a must to get through a dry camping weekend. Youtube videos indicate that with the addition of an 80 to 100 watt solar panel, you could get up to 2 weeks (assuming some sunny days).
It appears that these are being marketed as a safer alternative to the 2-way....

[chuckster57]

Just before I left the last dealership, these were in a couple of new units. Can’t recall the brand/model but they got cold quick and came with solar.

https://www.recpro.com/rv-refrigerator-10-7-cubic-feet-12v-stainless-steel/?msclkid=2cfb061a842e1db8b26059bdaaad9ef9&utm_source=bing&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=RecPro%20BigCommerce%20Shopping&utm_term=4584551172075300&utm_content=All%20Products

[chuckster57]

The two I ran across ran on 12VDC. Both units did have a battery box that could hold a pair of batteries and 120W (I think) of solar on the roof.

[gearhead]

I think there may be some of us talking apples and oranges. There are refrigerators that run on 12 volt DC that are not 110 volt AC residential types that use a converter. Occasionally there is discussion on truck camper forums. I don't recall the terms used to describe the compressor. I'm thinking they were developed and first used in Europe.

[K and D]

Agreed - This model appears to be DC only. Shore power only keeps the batteries charged..

[ElJeffe]

My 2021 Courgar 23MLS came with the 12v only refrigerator. It seems to work really well and gets cold really fast. However, with the tiny, lead acid battery that came with the rig, you get less than 24 hours before you have a battery too low.

[KimNTerry]

Upgrade the battery
2x 6volt (about $90 each at Sam's Cub) Flooded Leaded Acid Batteries 230 or so amp hours
or 1x 100 amp hr 12 volt Lithium Iron Phosphate (LiFEPO4) if your wallet can handle it.

more if you want/need

[BandT]

Ours has the 12V refer in it (10 Cu Ft) so far so good. According to my victron shunt it pulses about 5 amps off and on. It would have killed the 2 lead acid batteries it was delivered with. Now with (2) 200AH LifePo4 batteries and 530W of solar panels its no problem at all! Even after a few days of cloudy weather.

[quaddriver]

Timely topic...when we were looking at models, I wanted absorption....they require 100ma or so of trickle current for the eyebrow board, they run all season on a 25lb tank and...they just work...forever....as long as you stay level within reason.


But alas, todays new sexy is the 12v residential. Keystone, my brand my model I just got was using the Furian (<---spelled that way cuz of the movie) however you note for 2021 they went to GE.


Dont worry, both are made in china... (sarcasm)


But the GE has a better rep. According to the Camping world dealer, the Furians were failing at a rate they would sum up as 'all of them'. so go GE.


Dont have much experience with it outside of 1 week except to say I wish I didnt have it. we PREFER to boondock. We live right in the middle of boondock central (the ANF) Old coach on 2 G24 batteries - 3 days easy, and that is with watching a fall asleep movie on an inverter.


On a single G24 'free from the dealer' battery which I am sure is not the most long lived, 8 hours tops before a low voltage condition. Im sorry, but that kwh rating over 24 hrs is bogus. its too much current. My salesman told me 'oh it has been tested to last 3 days camping' to which I replied I have a bridge thru my woods for sale and we left it at that. Its a nice fridge (the GE) it seems so dont get me wrong (and it uses R134a if I read it right....wth? lol) but if you are not a park queen, it aint gonna meet the needs of your energy budget. the battery disco switch when parked (if you cannot plug in) is your friend.


go solar? you need at least 200w and a sunny location

[JRTJH]

Timely topic...when we were looking at models, I wanted absorption....they require 100ma or so of trickle current for the eyebrow board, they run all season on a 25lb tank and...they just work...forever....as long as you stay level within reason.


But alas, todays new sexy is the 12v residential. Keystone, my brand my model I just got was using the Furian (<---spelled that way cuz of the movie) however you note for 2021 they went to GE.


Dont worry, both are made in china... (sarcasm)


But the GE has a better rep. According to the Camping world dealer, the Furians were failing at a rate they would sum up as 'all of them'. so go GE.


Dont have much experience with it outside of 1 week except to say I wish I didnt have it. we PREFER to boondock. We live right in the middle of boondock central (the ANF) Old coach on 2 G24 batteries - 3 days easy, and that is with watching a fall asleep movie on an inverter.


On a single G24 'free from the dealer' battery which I am sure is not the most long lived, 8 hours tops before a low voltage condition. Im sorry, but that kwh rating over 24 hrs is bogus. its too much current. My salesman told me 'oh it has been tested to last 3 days camping' to which I replied I have a bridge thru my woods for sale and we left it at that. Its a nice fridge (the GE) it seems so dont get me wrong (and it uses R134a if I read it right....wth? lol) but if you are not a park queen, it aint gonna meet the needs of your energy budget. the battery disco switch when parked (if you cannot plug in) is your friend.


go solar? you need at least 200w and a sunny location

The "sad part of that equation" is that you can't "go solar" without a significant investment in additional equipment. Many (maybe even most) RV buyers are on a budget and are watching their dollars carefully so they can afford to buy the needed camping supplies to equip their new RV. Being "blindsided with a $500-$1000 solar system is a very bitter pill to swallow....

Why Keystone doesn't "suck it up and provide the entire package" if they're going to change over to residential refrigerators in their trailers is beyond me. Relying on a dealer's integrity to install sufficient batteries is similar to warning a 4 year old not to eat the cookies before supper and then leaving the house without a babysitter.....

Maybe the mantra, "All our trailers with be equipped with a solar system in 2022 model trailers" will help ease some of that pain.

[quaddriver]

The "sad part of that equation" is that you can't "go solar" without a significant investment in additional equipment. Many (maybe even most) RV buyers are on a budget and are watching their dollars carefully so they can afford to buy the needed camping supplies to equip their new RV. Being "blindsided with a $500-$1000 solar system is a very bitter pill to swallow....

Why Keystone doesn't "suck it up and provide the entire package" if they're going to change over to residential refrigerators in their trailers is beyond me. Relying on a dealer's integrity to install sufficient batteries is similar to warning a 4 year old not to eat the cookies before supper and then leaving the house without a babysitter.....

Maybe the mantra, "All our trailers with be equipped with a solar system in 2022 model trailers" will help ease some of that pain.


did they really say all 2022s will have solar? thats interesting....I wanted to put 150w in 3 50 watt N-power panels on the luggage section of winnie, but it was cheaper to get s 2000i inverter gensets and parallel on AC days...


I do have a new 45 watt panel and a 150w charge controller which DOES plug into the Bullets solar ready jack, but at 75% nominal rating, the 45watts is just over 30 and thats almost 2.5amps...it wont even keep up to the fridge and that is assuming its a sunny day in florida and you move the panels....


since I paid for it and am not likely to take it out for absorption, I need to find a path...hafta find out what the converter battery charger is really doing so this weekend I will be pulling it out and peekin, to see if its like other wcfos Ive rebuilt, then in the fall 1 genset is appx 2 gallon per day on loaf mode...with 24hr coverage

[JRTJH]

The "official Keystone announcement" says "MOST" Keystone trailers will have one of 4 solar packages with options to upgrade for many models...

Basic is 200 watts of solar panels and a controller to charge "dealer installed batteries"...

Next is 400 watt solar panels, a controller, inverter and "dealer batteries"

Next is 600 watt solar panels, a controller, inverter and 270 Ahr Li battery

Finally, there is an 1200 watt system with controller, inverter and two 540 Ahr Li batteries... No doubt that will be a "multi-thousand dollar option"....

Here's the link: https://www.keystonerv.com/solarflex_landing

[sourdough]

The "official Keystone announcement" says "MOST" Keystone trailers will have one of 4 solar packages with options to upgrade for many models...

Basic is 200 watts of solar panels and a controller to charge "dealer installed batteries"...

Next is 400 watt solar panels, a controller, inverter and "dealer batteries"

Next is 600 watt solar panels, a controller, inverter and 270 Ahr Li battery

Finally, there is an 1200 watt system with controller, inverter and two 540 Ahr Li batteries... No doubt that will be a "multi-thousand dollar option"....

Here's the link: https://www.keystonerv.com/solarflex_landing


I have no use for "solar" but I do believe I recall them touting the solar capability of the trailer. I also recall (if faulty memory serves me sort of correctly) that the install price for the full blown system was something like 15k. I can stay a long time in campgrounds and visit the backwoods for 15k....:D

[JRTJH]

I have no use for "solar" but I do believe I recall them touting the solar capability of the trailer. I also recall (if faulty memory serves me sort of correctly) that the install price for the full blown system was something like 15k. I can stay a long time in campgrounds and visit the backwoods for 15k....:D

I thought the same thing... I can buy a lot of replacement Champion generators and fuel for them for $15K..... LOL

Quiet is nice, but not that nice !!!!! Especially when you use the solar power to run the stereo or the TV that make more noise than the generator that's outside, behind a tree <G>

[ElJeffe]

I thought the same thing... I can buy a lot of replacement Champion generators and fuel for them for $15K..... LOL

Quiet is nice, but not that nice !!!!! Especially when you use the solar power to run the stereo or the TV that make more noise than the generator that's outside, behind a tree <G>

Hahah. Not right now. Can’t find a champion generator anywhere. ;-). Crazy shortage of them around here.

I was also told by several keystone dealers that I could use lithium batteries only to find out that’s not 100% true either. I’ve spaced out my battery/inverter setup is going to cost me around $2500 for DIY. (400ah lithium)

And guessing around $1000 for 500watt solar.

And another $1000ish for generator…if I can find one.

After all that the 12v refrigerator will be awesome ;-)

[JRTJH]

Hahah. Not right now. Can’t find a champion generator anywhere. ;-). Crazy shortage of them around here.

I was also told by several keystone dealers that I could use lithium batteries only to find out that’s not 100% true either. I’ve spaced out my battery/inverter setup is going to cost me around $2500 for DIY. (400ah lithium)

And guessing around $1000 for 500watt solar.

And another $1000ish for generator…if I can find one.

After all that the 12v refrigerator will be awesome ;-)

Which model generator are you looking for? Amazon has a couple as do some of the portable generator websites. If you post what you're looking for, someone may know of a site with some in stock.

[quaddriver]

This is an amusing solor setup....
https://www.amazon.com/Flexible-Portable-Monocrystalline-Battery-Bendable/dp/B099RZJQH5/ref=asc_df_B099RZJQH5/?tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=532889653807&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=6450649889626165297&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9006116&hvtargid=pla-1396266161455&psc=1


I have a pair of these:



https://www.amazon.com/Powermate-10000001790-Portable-Inverter-Generator/dp/B01JIRIOYY


Which are the same as the pulsar, generac, some wens and the westinghouse



(mine are 3 year old 2000/1600s but the same thing with slightly less engine) I run single or in pairs depending on need.


you can do it for under $1000 from our friends at amazon.


I even found one at auction for about $100 that was put away full for 2 years in a locker...it was about 2 hours to tear into it and redo the carb...so fixable if handy




ETA: champions: https://www.amazon.com/Champion-Power-Equipment-100692-Ultralight/dp/B0812PNK3X/ref=asc_df_B0812PNK3X/?tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=416796348214&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=11042496372577093644&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9006116&hvtargid=pla-924670086407&psc=1&tag=&ref=&adgrpid=93124985239&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvadid=416796348214&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=11042496372577093644&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9006116&hvtargid=pla-924670086407

[jxnbbl]

The "official Keystone announcement" says "MOST" Keystone trailers will have one of 4 solar packages with options to upgrade for many models...

Basic is 200 watts of solar panels and a controller to charge "dealer installed batteries"...

Next is 400 watt solar panels, a controller, inverter and "dealer batteries"

Next is 600 watt solar panels, a controller, inverter and 270 Ahr Li battery

Finally, there is an 1200 watt system with controller, inverter and two 540 Ahr Li batteries... No doubt that will be a "multi-thousand dollar option"....

Here's the link: https://www.keystonerv.com/solarflex_landing


I somewhat can confirm that the new trailers will have the 200w solar panels installed. I just bought a new trailer that was expected to have the solarflex 200 system installed at the factory...it didn't it came with the zamp prewiring for panels, inverter, etc. I basically negotiated to get 200w of panels installed and controller. I did read that the 200->400w upgrade for solarflex was about a $1200 option, but the 200 will be standard.



The bottom line is that IF my new fridge was propane/12V I wouldn't have worried at all...but it is 12V only so I'm not taking any chances. The good thing is that there is no more debating of driving with propane turned on.