Solar Ready in Pass-Thru 2020 models

[mikec557]

2020 26RBSWE Travel Trailer

So beginning with the 2020 models Keystone began wiring ports on the rooftop for solar panel plug in, calling it solar Ready (aka off the grid ready). They ran wiring from the rooftop port to...? That's my mystery question, to where did they run it. You can see in one of the pics that there is a cover in the pass through that's labeled solar ready. But when I removed mine there is only a loop of Romex. I don't believe the Romex is wired to the rooftop...

Rather, it is a loop you can cut into and install a xantrex Inverter/bypass to power an 1 outlet in the bedroom, 1 in the kitchen, and 1 behind the tv. That pre-wiring too is part of the new 2020 solar Ready wiring. You can see a pic of the xantrex installed on a new 2020 I took at a dealership.

Back to the rooftop wiring mystery. It should be 2 stranded, not solid, copper wires coming down from the rooftop to a solar charge controller (SCC). You can see a zamp SCC in another of the pics I took at the same dealership.

There also needs to be another pair of stranded copper wire from the SCC to the batteries. Though I am unclear on whether or not that is part of the Keystone solar ready setup.

I hate to just cut a hole in the approximate location of the SCC in the picture and finger around inside feeling for wire, but I don't know what else to do.

There's no paperwork with the trailer, and nothing I can find online.

Does anyone have documentation on this new feature "solar ready" (not the trickle charger port outside near the tongue), or any experience installing a solar charge controller in these new 2020 solar ready rigs, or any ideas or suggestions?

[Westcoastcb]

Also trying to learn about how to install a system on my 2020 34TSB with solar prep package

[mikec557]

Also trying to learn about how to install a system on my 2020 34TSB with solar prep package

CB

I should receive my xantrex inverter soonish. When I get it I'll start a separate thread with my install. Doing the romex will be the easy part. Fishing the 2ga wire from my TT pass-through to the outside world will be the tough part. I'll try to cut some inspection and/or useful holes in the front wall of the pass through. At the same time as getting that 12v into the pass-through I'm hoping to find the "lost" 12v loop of wire coming down from the rooftop solar port. I'll do a thread for that too, or maybe that should be part of the inverter thread.... Stay tuned, but I hope you're not in hurry...

Mike

[Westcoastcb]

No rush ! Just got my new trailer - thanks in advance !

[seb]

Looking at the same for my passport 239ml. Would anyone know how you can tell what plugs are prewired for the inverter prep (the 120V romex wire loop) from the pass through? We have nothing on the plugs in the unit label wise (would be nice and aeasy for Kestone to include that...) nothing in the manual or on Keystone's web page. We know it is supposed to be one in bedroom area, one in kitchen and one in living area. This is kind of a nice feature and we were ahppyt to hear it was included. It influenced aour decision to buy the 239ml unit but I would have expected Keystone to market this with some supporting documentation but no....

[mikec557]

Looking at the same for my passport 239ml. Would anyone know how you can tell what plugs are prewired for the inverter prep (the 120V romex wire loop) from the pass through? We have nothing on the plugs in the unit label wise (would be nice and aeasy for Kestone to include that...) nothing in the manual or on Keystone's web page. We know it is supposed to be one in bedroom area, one in kitchen and one in living area. This is kind of a nice feature and we were ahppyt to hear it was included. It influenced aour decision to buy the 239ml unit but I would have expected Keystone to market this with some supporting documentation but no....


SEB and WeatcoastCB

I have been remiss in posting the results of my efforts. We just stopped in Caldwell ID for the night. Will layover another night in Pocatello tomorrow night, then we'll spend a week in Garden City UT at Blue Lake. We stayed a week there last year, it's a really nice place (Blue Water Resort). I'll do a write up with pictures when we get there.

In the mean time, there were no labels on my outlets either. But I saw labels on some new units before we bought our used 2020, so I had a good idea which they were.

You should check for yourself, but my unit matched up with what I saw on the RV lot. It's the bedside outlet on the driver side (not the passenger side), the left most outlet of the two outlets in our kitchen (making that more driver side than passenger side), and the outlet behind the TV.

Simple test. Plug in your camper. Use an electrical tester to verify you have power in these three outlets. I used a cheap $5, 3-light, yellow electrical tester from harbor freight. Now turn off the breaker in the breaker panel marked INV. My panel is located below the oven. Retest those 3 outlets. If dead, those are the outlets you can later power by the inverter.

I have to say, you're lucky to have the red and black wire loop in the pass through. They neglected to leave me that slack in mine. BTW, that's the loop for the solar charge controller.

Mike

[seb]

Great info, thank you. Our inverter will come in in September so I have time, looking forward to the updates :). Someone should really get in touch with Keystone as this is a great rough and it could be a deciding factor for some when it comes to the unit they purchase. As it stands the whole idea is not supported unfortunately and dealers do not understand normal features let alone solar :).

[mikec557]

Great info, thank you. Our inverter will come in in September so I have time, looking forward to the updates :). Someone should really get in touch with Keystone as this is a great rough and it could be a deciding factor for some when it comes to the unit they purchase. As it stands the whole idea is not supported unfortunately and dealers do not understand normal features let alone solar :).

I agree. Neither of the two salesman I spoke with had any knowledge about it. One told me you shouldn't put more than two 120 watt panels on the roof. After we bought ours I went up on the roof... the Zamp roof gland is marked "500 watts max". So much for his knowledge. I installed two 160 watt panels.

What inverter did you buy?

[mikec557]

Here are pics of our plug locations...

First, is driver side bed
Second, the outlet on the left of the two kitchen outlets
Third, behind the tv, maybe you can see the blue ray player deep in the hole.

[seb]

We bought a GoWISE Power 1000W Pure Sine Wave Inverter. It has no pass through option for 120V (not auto switching). I will need connect an AC selector switch to isolate it completely from the converter shore 120V when in use I understand the rough in nomex 120V line is actually hot from the converter passing through the pass through (the loop) and keeps going to feed each plug(?). Thanks for the pictures. We have a 239ml but the same extra wall plug in the bed area on just one side. The other is the TV plug so the only unknown is the kitchen but we ave only two plugs so either one will do. The limiting issue is that the inverter is only rated at 500W per each plug as it does not have a AC terminal connect junction so I might have to trade it for another one anyway like the Renogy 1000W pure sine inverter which has high power AC output terminal. Kind of goofed up on that..... :)

[mikec557]

... I understand the rough in romex 120V line is actually hot from the converter passing through the pass through (the loop) and keeps going to feed each plug(?)...

Hot from the 15a breaker in the breaker panel, but you've got the idea. After I cut the loop (with the power off) I turned the power back on, then tested both ends to see which one was hot, and thus coming from the breaker panel. I marked it with blue painters tape.

I bought the xantrex freedom 1000 pure sine wave with pass through from donrowe.com. It works well, and the vendor is great to work with, but I absolutely hate the connectors on it. They are a spring loaded PIA that leaves no room to install the romex, the very thing that's supposed to connect there. I think I saw another inverter the same size and true sine wave with pass through on Amazon that used ordinary male AC plugs. I wonder if I should have bought that.

I don't know anything about your present inverter, but maybe you could "move" the male terminated end of the romex from the outlets to either the circuit breaker source or your inverter source. You could put an ordinary female outlet in the pass through on the romex from the breaker, and install your inverter nearby with ordinary female outlet. Then just pick your power source. The outlets in the camper would essentially be just like an extension cord.

[seb]

As far as I know the Gowise PS1002 having two female AC plugs splits the 1000W inverter capacity into two giving 500W for each plug. They can not be combined. However, I will test the inverter under load to see when it actually trips. Anything well engineered is oversized with a safety margin and I did run into some discussions where each AC side actually delivered the total power rating regardless. The system will run off two 88Amp LIFEPO4 batteries and drawing 1000W out will be a strain on them anyway.... I will field test the system and life will determine if I can live with the 500W per side :).

Beeing in Canada we mostly deal with amazon.ca and the selection is limited, plus with the Canadian peso there is a premium on the xantrex :).

[mikec557]

plus with the Canadian peso there is a premium on the xantrex :).

THAT made me laugh out loud! Thanks.

Let us know what you figure out. I would be surprised if the power was divided by two. I think the cheaper manufacturing approach would be to just invert the power and deliver it to one duplex outlet... like hooking up the romex to an ordinary duplex outlet.

[flybouy]

Web I'd recommend reading the paperwork for that inverter. A 1,000 watt inverter should deliver a maximum of 1,000 watts irregards of the loads on the individual outlets. Just like in your home, a 15 Amp circuit is 15 amps available at each outlet on the breaker and not 15 amps divided equally by the number of outlets.

[1953TBM]

Hot from the 15a breaker in the breaker panel, but you've got the idea. After I cut the loop (with the power off) I turned the power back on, then tested both ends to see which one was hot, and thus coming from the breaker panel. I marked it with blue painters tape.

I bought the xantrex freedom 1000 pure sine wave with pass through from donrowe.com. It works well, and the vendor is great to work with, but I absolutely hate the connectors on it. They are a spring loaded PIA that leaves no room to install the romex, the very thing that's supposed to connect there. I think I saw another inverter the same size and true sine wave with pass through on Amazon that used ordinary male AC plugs. I wonder if I should have bought that.

I don't know anything about your present inverter, but maybe you could "move" the male terminated end of the romex from the outlets to either the circuit breaker source or your inverter source. You could put an ordinary female outlet in the pass through on the romex from the breaker, and install your inverter nearby with ordinary female outlet. Then just pick your power source. The outlets in the camper would essentially be just like an extension cord.
My 23MBS came with a starter inverter/solar Package 170w panel on roof and 1000w Zamp inverter. Had to go outside to turn on until I found that a remote on/off could be added and just plugged into inverter. Also It would be helpful to have 110v in the storage compartment. Renogy products can be purchased from Home depot and shipped to store for pickup. I would be happy with a 2000w inverter. Some are equiped with 110v outlets,I wish the bedroom 110v was on driver side of bed and could be used for bedroom tv. I put a small light by the door so I don't leave the inverter on.

[mikec557]

Also It would be helpful to have 110v in the storage compartment.

I don't know if this would work for you, but in our previous RV (a 5th wheel), I needed an outlet in the pass through on the passenger side. I had previously installed an inverter in the front compartment. The inverter had two built in outlets. I bought an extension cord (14ga), measured from the inverter, thru a half inch hole I drilled in the adjoining wall to the location I wanted an outlet. Having previously cut off the female end of the extension cord, I crimped eyelet connectors on the bare wires and surface mounted an ordinary outlet. I used a gray electrical box without ears. I drilled 3 holes in the back of it and screwed onto the wall where I wanted an outlet.

Maybe you could mod this idea for your situation.

Mike

[seb]

Web I'd recommend reading the paperwork for that inverter. A 1,000 watt inverter should deliver a maximum of 1,000 watts irregards of the loads on the individual outlets. Just like in your home, a 15 Amp circuit is 15 amps available at each outlet on the breaker and not 15 amps divided equally by the number of outlets.
The manual for GoWise is useless but based on separate forum info the load from one ac out is supposed to deliver 1000W when no load is present in the second AC out so I will work OK. Thanks

[seb]

I don't know if this would work for you, but in our previous RV (a 5th wheel), I needed an outlet in the pass through on the passenger side. I had previously installed an inverter in the front compartment. The inverter had two built in outlets. I bought an extension cord (14ga), measured from the inverter, thru a half inch hole I drilled in the adjoining wall to the location I wanted an outlet. Having previously cut off the female end of the extension cord, I crimped eyelet connectors on the bare wires and surface mounted an ordinary outlet. I used a gray electrical box without ears. I drilled 3 holes in the back of it and screwed onto the wall where I wanted an outlet.

Maybe you could mod this idea for your situation.

Mike
Thanks. I was thinking about something similar. I will use a short 20A capable (oversized) extension cord and connect it to the romex loop in a junction via AC selector switch so I can power the three plugs on with either 15A from the converter when on shore power or inverter when running on batteries.

[flybouy]

Thanks. I was thinking about something similar. I will use a short 20A capable (oversized) extension cord and connect it to the romex loop in a junction via AC selector switch so I can power the three plugs on with either 15A from the converter when on shore power or inverter when running on batteries.

With all due respect I think you need to slow down, read some more on basic electricity, then think thru what you are doing. The 15 amp shore power supplies those outlets. The converter i89s the device that changes 120 vac to 12v dc to charge the battery and operate 12v dc circuits.

A 1,000 watt inverter will at best produce 8.3 amps, 1,000 watts divided by 120 volts = 8.33 amps.

The circuit will support 15 amps per the circuit breaker and the 14 gauge wire going to the outlets. What type of "AC selector switch" are you talking about?

[seb]

With all due respect I think you need to slow down, read some more on basic electricity, then think thru what you are doing. The 15 amp shore power supplies those outlets. The converter i89s the device that changes 120 vac to 12v dc to charge the battery and operate 12v dc circuits.

A 1,000 watt inverter will at best produce 8.3 amps, 1,000 watts divided by 120 volts = 8.33 amps.

The circuit will support 15 amps per the circuit breaker and the 14 gauge wire going to the outlets. What type of "AC selector switch" are you talking about?
I appreciate the concern. I understand that with 1000W the current will not be 15A given the voltage output. The circuit is rated higher because it needs to acomodate the converter output and match residential parameters of current and volatge (and thus power) but I will not need all that power when running on batteries. I want the three plugs to be isolated from the converter when I use the inverter to supply power. I am looking at a AC selector switch along the lines of :https://dcpoweronboard.com/ac-source-switches/.

[mikec557]

Here goes. In my next post I'm going to try to post my write up. Maybe I need an editor to read my work and tighten it up. This is the short version and it's still too long...

[mikec557]

Where to begin? I can't write up a step by step because it would be too big. So instead, I'll mention each area that was a concern for my installation and post as many pictures as I can. Feel free to ask questions about my write up or what you might see in the pictures. I'll break this up if I can't paste it into one posting. The pictures will also probably require a few posting.

My 2020 26RBSWE was built in 10/2019. Consequently, some of the "new in 2020" features were omitted, or executed poorly. For instance, my floor does not have the new composite instead of luan top and bottom, mine is luan/sp. They did leave a loop in the pass-through for the installation of an inverter, but they failed to make a loop of the 12v wires from the rooftop gland to the batteries so I could easily install a solar charge controller.

At least they did put the rooftop gland on making the solar panel installation easier. It's a Zamp two outlet gland. Printed on it is a statement to the effect not to exceed 500 watts. About the gland, Zamp uses a standard SAE two prong connector. Some of what you read will say they intentionally reversed the pos and neg from the industry standard of neg (male) is exposed and positive (female) is shrouded. If you have ever daisy chained a few SAE connectors you know that the shielded connector is sometimes positive and sometimes negative. In my case the gland male/exposed prong is positive to my solar charge controller (SCC/scc), yet the red wire on the 24in SAE to MC4 connectors I bought on Amazon was male/exposed positive. Good thing it came with a gender changer. So, gland to gender changer to SAE to MC4 connector kept the visible red wire as positive. But, I didn't pay attention when buying the SAE/MC4 adapter and bought ones with a square shoulder instead of rounded. Razor knife fixed that. I used a 3ft on the left and a 5ft MC4 extension for my two 160 watt solar panels. That install was straight forward.

With regard to the inverter, I bought a Xantrex Freedom X 1000 watt pure sinewave inverter with shore power pass-through. And because I wanted a 120vac outlet in the pass-through, I bought the outlet that plugs into the body of the Xantrex unit. Ultimately, I hated the Romex connectors on the Xantrex. They are extremely un-user friendly. That alone would make me choose a different inverter. It's hard enough to crawl into the pass through and do the wiring, you don't need this aggravation on top of that. That's my two-cents on Xantrex. But, I digress. Be sure to unplug the trailer from power before you cut the Romex. After it was cut I turned the power back on and determined which end was hot from the breaker panel, and which end fed out to the three outlets in the trailer. In my case they are the outlet on the driver side of the bed, not the passenger side bed which, I think they should have included, one outlet in the kitchen, and the outlet behind our TV. BTW I made my own cables for the inverter and SCC. I used 2ga welding wire and a 150a circuit breaker that I could manually open and close for the inverter. And I used 8ga fine stranded wire for the SCC. On the rooftop I used all premade MC4 wires.

Solar Charger Control (scc/SCC) loop was MIA. You can see I cut a few square holes in the front wall of the pass through, hoping to find the loop (not pulled through the wall into the pass through). Instead I found that they used 8ga wire from the rooftop gland, pulled tightly down through the front wall, out the bottom and out to the batteries. They did use an auto resetting 30amp breaker, but it is not what you want to use, and it was located in the worst location possible. More about that later. I disconnected the wires from the batteries and breaker, taped a fish line to them, and pulled as much as I could into the pass-through. I already knew my 8ga wire was not going to fit inside the little metal conduit they put in the frame to protect their 12v wire run, but I put a fish line in place just in case I could use it in the future. Because I was already bringing the pass through the 2ga wire from the batteries to the inverter, I decided to put pos and neg buss bars inside the pass through and direct my SCC output to the buss bars.

I have a Victron BMV-712 with Bluetooth battery monitor. I didn't want to figure out how to mount it outside on the tongue near the batteries, in the elements, and protect it's circuitry. So I mounted it inside the pass through. Because of that I had to remove the battery to frame ground out on the tongue. Instead, I ran that from the negative bus bar inside the pass through back out and down to the frame, making that connection under the pass through.

I have a Tire Traker signal repeater. So… I connected a Blue Sea 12v fuse block to the buss bars. I think I originally connected the positive lead for the shunt to the pos buss bar, but have since moved it to the Blue Sea fuse block.

I mounted all the hardware I could to 1/2 OSB while it was on my workbench. I also made all the cables and connections I could while it was on the bench. Then I leaned it into place on the front wall of the pass through and screwed it along the top edge with 4 or 5 screws. I tried to hit an aluminum frame member I could see was there but I'm not sure if I hit it or not. At the bottom, I didn't want to screw into the wall, so I used a piece of angle aluminum. I can't remember if its 3/4 by 3/4 or 1in by 1in. I predrilled about 4 or 5 screw holes in it, then screwed it down to the floor while pushing it tightly against the OSB. That keeps the OSB from being able to move.

Those auto resetting circuit breakers on the tongue. They could not have put them in a worse place. My battery tray is just *BARELY* two group 27 batteries wide. They put the two gang metal junction box for the trailer and 3 of the auto reset breakers directly within the battery space. Like that, I could not fit the two batteries in the tray. I relocated 2 of the breakers and removed 1. That was the one they installed for the solar panel to battery wire run. When I put my SCC in place I installed two 30 amp circuit breakers, with manual open and close; one between the panels and SCC and the other between the SCC and the batteries. I found two plastic battery boxes for my Battleborn lithium batteries. But I had to 69 the lids and cut a LOT of the side overhang on the lids to make it work.

Finally, I had to run one positive and two negative 2ga wires from the outside to the inside of the pass through. I drilled a 1/-1/4 or 1-1/2 hole through the floor, outside the trailer frame member. I put a piece of eternabond tape on the Darco to keep it from getting ragged by my hole saw. I used the two gang gray box you see on the underside. I also had to cut the same size hole in it's faceplate. In the pass through I just used a one gang faceplate sold with a nice sized hole already in it. I'll fill that gray box with closed cell spray foam when I'm satisfied my work is finished. That should keep water spray from getting inside the box and wetting my luan flooring.

Boy, and I thought this was the short version.

Let me know if you have any questions.

[mikec557]

More pictures...

[mikec557]

Apparently I need different verbiage to load more pics...

This is the board installed in the pass through, you can see the cable entry just inside the doorway.

[mikec557]

This was the most troubling part of the project. Cutting holes in the floor just seems wrong. But there was no way I could feed the wire up into the pass through any other way.

[mikec557]

Some final pictures...

[WJQ]

I am partway through the installation of a similar system as you are doing on my 2018 Cougar. I will describe my system is a separate thread.

I recently spoke with the Tech Support at MFCO (power center for my TT) and the tech told me WFCO had developed a dual bus power center that eliminates the need for a separate subpanel that I must install. But my Square D subpanell is going to cost about $35 for panel and two breakers so I chose that path. You probably have that power center in your 2020 TT making your system less complex. For early WFCO systems a subpanel is needed.

Anyway, good luck on finishing your inverter installation.

[seb]

Thanks for the exhaustive post. Will definitely assist in my install.

[WJQ]

I am getting closer to finishing on my install. I will provide a complete parts list when finished.

A lot more work than I thought. But will be nice when done.

Also, in doing this job I have found several things that were poorly assembled or designed. Quality control is unknown in my Keystone product. Some items were destined to fail at a future time.

I will tabulate these as well when the job is finished.

[byerskm]

MIKEC557,

I have a new 2021 Cougar 26RBS, same model as you, that I'm just getting broken in. I plan to install 400 Watts of solar and two Lithium Ion 100 AH batteries. I found your post to be very helpful. I want to share some information and ask a few questions.

Likely, I'll be installing my solar system with inverter in a few weeks. I am camping this weekend and taking the opportunity to check out how Keystone did with the "solar ready" prep on my trailer. I was pretty happy with the wiring, after reading how some of your wiring was not prepped well. Under the solar ready cover in the pass-thru, I found the residential wire loop for the three inverter ready outlets. Also, there are two pairs of red/black heavy gauge DC wires (8 or 10 AWG). I am assuming the two Zamp plugs on the roof are parallelled together and fed to the pass-thru with one of these pairs. I am further assuming the other pair is connected to the battery and will serve as the pair that the solar charge controller uses to send it's charge to the batteries. I will confirm these assumptions using my volt meter. Having read your posts, I am assuming (again, to be confirmed) I will have to run a heavy gauge wire (probably 1/0 AWG wire that will be supplied with the inverter) from the battery to feed the inverter. Please confirm this is actually what you found.

One very important item I discovered this weekend as I was looking at everything is that the WFCO converter/charger installed on my trailer is model WF-9855. I could not find where this device has a Lithium Ion battery mode. After further research online and downloading the owner manual, I confirmed that this unit is not suitable for charging Lithium Ion batteries. I wasn't sure, then I found a YouTube video of another owner who had this same exact situation. He tried using the WF-9855 when he switched to Lithium Ion batteries and found that the unit simply would not charge fully and it was extremely slow at charging the Lithium Ion batteries (Battle Born 100 AH, same as I plan to buy). He ended up replacing the converter/charger with a WF-9850L2 that is a 2019 enhancement to WFCO's product offering, developed for use with Lithium Ion batteries. He showed the difference in results (time to charge and % charge achieved) in his YouTube video and it was dramatic What was your experience in regard to the converter? My only hesitation here is whether or not I need to spend the $200 for the new converter or if my solar panels are going to always be able to keep my batteries charged, making the converter a moot point. Any thoughts on this?

[mikec557]

Any thoughts on this?

Any thoughts on this? Are you kidding, I'm full of opinions, just ask my wife. LOL

EDIT: Correction, I have 320 watts of solar, not 360. I bought 2 Renogy 160 watt panels.

Yes, the two Zamp connectors are joined together in the attic (I assume because it works), with one pair of 8ga wire running to the pass through. If you look close at the wire in the pass through, you can read what gage it is. Before you cut that loop remember to disconnect from the batteries.

But before you disconnect from the batteries, use your DVM on the rooftop to verify positive and negative. On mine the top most pin was positive, despite it being the exposed male pin. You need to know which pin is Positive to hookup your panels correctly. If you buy a 24in SAE to MC4 adapter on Amazon it seems they all come with a gender adapter to accommodate whatever you need. I needed to use it.

My inverter is only 1000 watts. The instructions called for 2ga not over 5 or 6 feet, and a 150a breaker/fuse. I had to supply the wire and breaker.

Regarding the original WFCO converter charger. You're right, it does not have a lithium setting and will never, by itself, charge lithium batteries fully. It also has a cycle I think it calls "equalizing", which lithium does not need. It's for FLA battery cell balancing, and you can't turn it off.

I use a Progressive Dynamics charger/converter for lithium batteries. I have two 100a BattleBorn. More below.

I think, but double check FAQs at BattleBorn, they say you don't "have to" replace your stock WFCO and that it won't harm their battery. But you know the old saying, In for a penny, in for a pound. I bought the PD unit.

Whether you "need to" replace the WFCO is a choice only you can make. I have 320 watts using 2 panels, you're going to have 400 watts. Where will you be camping? I prefer shade and a hookup, but sometimes no hookup and I'm looking for maximum solar exposure. I decided with the PD I had the best of both worlds.

Just a tip on cost. We joined Escapees RV for a couple reasons. The most important are discounts on certain things. For instance BattleBorn gives you about $100 discount on each battery, and a 15% discount in the same order for "accessories"... which is everything else they sell such as Progressive Dynamics charger converters and Victron solar charge controllers and battery monitors. I bought 2 BB batteries, a Victron MPPT 50/100 solar charge controller with built-in Bluetooth (yes that's probably overkill), and the Victron BMV712 battery monitor with Bluetooth (which somehow talks to the solar charge controller).
I have to say I am addicted to monitoring my solar and batteries by Bluetooth to my phone.

Now, even with the discount, that's a lot of money. But the money I saved helped me justify buying the more expensive gear.

But it always comes down to budget constraints. Buy any brand of good quality stuff and you'll be happy.

I think I touched on all your questions. Did I miss anything?

[byerskm]

Thanks Mike.

Yes, you hit all the key points. We are members of Escapees...yeah! My plan is to buy 2 Battle Born 100 AH Lithium Ion batteries, so your info on the other items they carry, and the discount, is of high interest to me. I will definitely look at the PD converter and other items Battle Born has to offer, due to learning of it from you.

The inverter I am looking at is 2000 Watt so that is why they supply 1/0 AWG cables for the 12V feed with it. The fuse supplies is 250 Amp. We are not going to do hard core boon docking, but we do want the freedom and savings associated with being able to function comfortably at sites without power when we are in transit and/or when we are visiting some of the great places in our awesome US of A and we can do so without paying for power a few days at a time.

[mikec557]

Thanks Mike.

Yes, you hit all the key points. We are members of Escapees...yeah! My plan is to buy 2 Battle Born 100 AH Lithium Ion batteries, so your info on the other items they carry, and the discount, is of high interest to me. I will definitely look at the PD converter and other items Battle Born has to offer, due to learning of it from you.

The inverter I am looking at is 2000 Watt so that is why they supply 1/0 AWG cables for the 12V feed with it. The fuse supplies is 250 Amp. We are not going to do hard core boon docking, but we do want the freedom and savings associated with being able to function comfortably at sites without power when we are in transit and/or when we are visiting some of the great places in our awesome US of A and we can do so without paying for power a few days at a time.

Sounds like you've got a good plan going.
BTW, if you have a need, Escapees has a good discount on trailer and truck tires. You have to click through their website to get to Goodyear.com and you can see the discount once they're in the cart. We put tires on a Silverado 1/2 ton a couple years ago, and two different Cougar TTs. Just something to keep in mind.

[byerskm]

Mike, I have a follow up. I have also been looking at Renogy for my panels. I noticed they only use the 100W panels in their RV kits. i.e., they use 4 X 100W for a 400W system. Each panel weighs about 16 Lbs. I would prefer to to use 2 X 200W panels. Less holes to drill in my roof. Each panel weighs about 25 lbs. You mentioned you went with 2 X 160W panels. I am wondering why Renogy's 400W kits don't use 2 X 200W panels. I have a message into them, but they are swamped...may not hear for a while. I am wondering if it is just an assumed handling issue. Lighter is better in terms of carrying the panels up to the roof? Or, maybe there is a concern about the wind load when driving down the road? larger panel = more force per each z-bracket? Anyway, your 160W panels are in between and I was wondering what you think about this. The question of force on each bracket is an engineering question and I don't think I am going to figure that one out. I tend to think the orientation of the panels is such that they don't get much in the way of wind force anyway. Perhaps Renogy did the engineering and can tell me?

[mikec557]

Mike, I have a follow up. I have also been looking at Renogy for my panels. I noticed they only use the 100W panels in their RV kits. i.e., they use 4 X 100W for a 400W system. Each panel weighs about 16 Lbs. I would prefer to to use 2 X 200W panels. Less holes to drill in my roof. Each panel weighs about 25 lbs. You mentioned you went with 2 X 160W panels. I am wondering why Renogy's 400W kits don't use 2 X 200W panels. I have a message into them, but they are swamped...may not hear for a while. I am wondering if it is just an assumed handling issue. Lighter is better in terms of carrying the panels up to the roof? Or, maybe there is a concern about the wind load when driving down the road? larger panel = more force per each z-bracket? Anyway, your 160W panels are in between and I was wondering what you think about this. The question of force on each bracket is an engineering question and I don't think I am going to figure that one out. I tend to think the orientation of the panels is such that they don't get much in the way of wind force anyway. Perhaps Renogy did the engineering and can tell me?


I don't why all their kits use the 100 watt panels. But being the cynic that I am, and because I tend to view the world through my business degree eyes (which I could have said in fewer words by saying I'm a realist) I would guess it's this: I think they are aiming at the beginning solar guy with their kits. It's "all in one" approach is attractive, and the small footprint of the 100 watt panel will fit almost anyone's rooftop. And I think there's a good sized market for first time solar installs.

My first (of three) installs was their 200 watt kit. The next time I bought 3x 100 watt panels and one of their charge controllers that came kitted with their Bluetooth dongle. This time I bought their two 160s and Victron for everything else.

If you use their Z-brackets (which are good brackets, albeit one time use) I think there is no wind lift concern. But since my money was burning a hole in my pocket, I bought the brackets from AMSolar in Oregon. On my 5th wheel I wanted to be able to tilt the panels, which I did at Quartzsite January 2020. I got a 50% increase in output.

I used the AMSolar brackets again on the 26RBSWE, but doubt I'll go up and tilt them. Because we have such a curved roof, I used the 3-hole and 5-hole foot in an effort to get my panels flatter, but they still are leaned over quite a bit. I worried about "was I causing a lift problem" doing this but did it anyway. We've driven 1000 miles so far with no indication of trouble.

While I don't enjoy drilling holes in the roof, the more important consideration for me is a safe path to walk around on the roof: to inspect, caulk, replace roof vent with MaxxAir fans, to clean and service the air conditioner, etc.

If I may suggest, make 2 or 3 templates by cutting up moving boxes from HD to the size of 200 watt panels (and 160 watt panels) and place them around your rooftop. See how it looks to you. My 160s are the same width of the 100s, and only 6 inches longer than the 100s. It's not cost efficient to do two 160s but they don't take much more space than two 100s. So I get 320 instead of 200 and I have a lot of walking around room.

One last thing I don't think I mentioned. I don't screw any of the wires down on the roof. I use a piece of eternabond tape in certain places to hold them down. A piece about 4in wide and 5-6in long. I also put some on the rooftop anywhere the wire couplers look like they'll rub around on the roof as we travel.

Keep us posted on your progress.

Mike

[mikec557]

Just finishing up in Bryce Canyon NP. Hiked to the bottom. Thought I'd need lifeflight on hike out...

[mikec557]

I thought of one more thing. As you lay the templates down on the rooftop, anticipate shadows thrown by the bedroom vent cover and the air conditioner cowl. And, where you'd kneel to take the ac cowl off. Just some things to consider.

[mikec557]

I thought of one more thing. As you lay the templates down on the rooftop, anticipate shadows thrown by the bedroom vent cover and the air conditioner cowl. And, where you'd kneel to take the ac cowl off. Just some things to consider.

[mikec557]

Boy, how quickly the mind begins to slip. The first install was 300 watt, a 200 watt kit plus an extra panel. That's the first pic. It's on the 24RBSWE.

The 2&3rd pics are the 5th wheel, my second install. The pics don't do justice to how sloped that rooftop was. You can kind of get the idea in the 3rd pic. Many times I thought I was casting my own shadow on the first panel.

The 4th pic is this installation. If you zoom in you can see the AMSolar feet. I don't have a picture of the wires taped down, but you can see that in the first pic.

Edit: no you can't. In that first install I used zip ties with a screw hole. But you can see the eternabond tape under the wire connections. I'll look for a pic of taped down wires and post it below in the thread.

[byerskm]

Great input. Definitely will use the template suggestion to play around with positioning. Good to see your comments on the tilt mount...I was considering. Maybe during winter months is might be worth having them. Even if I don't tilt for improved performance, I have been thinking I will want to be able to clean the roof under the panels, sooner or later. Thinking the tilt mount will make that a lot easier. Eternabond tape, another great tidbit from you. Thanks. Interesting on your background. You might guess, mine is engineering.

[byerskm]

Since I have the same trailer as you, 26RBS, good to see that last picture also. I can see the degree of slope even in the pic. It is significant. My layout should be very close to same as yours, just the panels will be larger....so laying out the templates very useful.

[mikec557]

Since I have the same trailer as you, 26RBS, good to see that last picture also. I can see the degree of slope even in the pic. It is significant. My layout should be very close to same as yours, just the panels will be larger....so laying out the templates very useful.

I learned that from someone else back when I did my first Solar install; I'm sorry to say I can't remember who. It's really nice to see it visually. I think my templates were within 2in of the correct size because I had to cope with the cardboard boxes I had at hand. But it is a great visual exercise, you'll be glad you did it.

[byerskm]

Mike,
I am looking at the mounts on AMSolar. Like the 35mm Rocker Foot Mounts like you used. Will probably go with 3 hole on inside of each panel and 5 hold on outside, like you, to flatten out some. Anyway, best I can tell, I will have to drill a 1/4" hold in each corner of each panel. Since I plan to buy Renogy panels, am I correct in my assessment that there are not pre-drilled holes that work with these mounting brackets? Did you have to drill holes in your panels for these mounts?

[mikec557]

Mike,
I am looking at the mounts on AMSolar. Like the 35mm Rocker Foot Mounts like you used. Will probably go with 3 hole on inside of each panel and 5 hold on outside, like you, to flatten out some. Anyway, best I can tell, I will have to drill a 1/4" hold in each corner of each panel. Since I plan to buy Renogy panels, am I correct in my assessment that there are not pre-drilled holes that work with these mounting brackets? Did you have to drill holes in your panels for these mounts?

HI

Yes I had to drill my own hole because the renogy panel doesn't have a hole in the right place. Watch their video on how to do it. It's easy to do. I clipped it on, pressed inward a little like their video shows and drew a circle with a black magic marker. Then I used a spring loaded center punch from Harbor Freight and eyeballed the center of the circle as best I could.

I placed a 1/2 in thick piece of wood under the aluminum I was drilling. That way, if I punched through I wouldn't hit the solar panel.

I too did the 5-hole and 3-hole, and here's my thoughts. First, I didn't use the lowest hole on the 3/hole. It placed the panel too low to the roof for my liking. So I used the middle hole on the 3, and the top hole on the 5. If you look at my Pic above, I don't think it helped that much. And, in some ways I wonder if I was creating unnecessary lift.

Early on I thought if I didn't like it after I installed it, I could just lower the 5/hole side down to the second from the bottom like the 3/hole. Turns out, not so. The dimension is different enough I can't do that. It might have worked on a flat roof, but it didn't work on my curved roof.

So, I say all that to ask: did I gain any greater sunshine and thus output? I don't think so. If you are concerned about lift, I think using the middle hole on the 3/hole on all for corners would be an okay approach.

On a related topic... In case you do want to tilt the panel...
I bought their tilt arms kit the first time I used their feet. But in the end, the arms were too long. They stood my panels (on the 5th wheel) up too vertically. It stood them at something like a 60deg angle instead of a 45deg angle. I bought 2pcs 3ft long 1/16th inch thick aluminum flat bar at HD. (I can't remember if I bought 3/4 or 1in wide) Cut them to 1ft long and drilled a hole at each end. The lengths don't need to be perfect, but the distance between the holes must be uniform.

Then I bought star shaped plastic knobs on Amazon with 1/4-20 male and female inserts. I'll try to post a link to those. If not this post then the next.

Edit: this link has both male and female knobs
Use these on one end and their knobs on the other end.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B07HDZNRMH/ref=ppx_yo_mob_b_inactive_ship_o0_img?ie=UTF8&psc=1&th=1

[mikec557]

Just thought I'd post a picture of the sun hitting one of my panels. The first Pic was shot at 11am, but it looked just like this at 9am (I was to busy to take a pic). Sun rises on the back end of the trailer and sets on the nose. Location is near Phoenix AZ.

Added a 2nd Pic I shot yesterday at 8am.

While the newer 2020 rooftops look like quite the radius, I don't think it has a measurable difference to the panel output.

[byerskm]

Mike,

Your posts have been immensely helpful. Terrific tip on AMSolar. Their mounts offer some unique features and I'll be going with them. Many other little items/tips that add up to a huge help on my project. So, thanks for that.

I did the cardboard templates and think I'll be going with a little different layout for my two 200W panels. I'm going to put them on the same side (passenger side) of the trailer. I have a couple reasons, but if you think of some problem with it that I may be overlooking, please let me know. I like the idea of having them oriented the same, especially if I decide to tilt them in the winter months.

[mikec557]

Mike,

Your posts have been immensely helpful. Terrific tip on AMSolar. Their mounts offer some unique features and I'll be going with them. Many other little items/tips that add up to a huge help on my project. So, thanks for that.

I did the cardboard templates and think I'll be going with a little different layout for my two 200W panels. I'm going to put them on the same side (passenger side) of the trailer. I have a couple reasons, but if you think of some problem with it that I may be overlooking, please let me know. I like the idea of having them oriented the same, especially if I decide to tilt them in the winter months.


You're welcome. It's my way of passing on the help I got when we started out. I'll think about it, but I don't think there's any downside to both on one side. I had the three 100s on the same side on our 5th wheel. Never had an issue with that. We full-timed for a bit over 1-1/2 years, and I think our camper was pointed every direction on the compass. LOL! Sometimes you'll get full sun on them all and sometimes you'll get a bad shadow or tree shade and get good power from only one, or two of three in our case. I don't see an air conditioner on your drawing. Any shadow concerns re that?

I can't see your drawing and type this, but did I see your cable entry point mid length of the trailer? Are you drilling your own entry point? Or do I need a nap?

[mikec557]

Here's a few pics showing my model 2020 (really, built late 2019) rooftop. The Zamp port is directly to the side of the bedroom roof vent. That Puck you see on the other side of me taking the picture is an attic vent.

Your roof layout may be different. I bought 3ft and 5ft MC4 extensions on Amazon and just returned what I didn't need. They're sold in many different lengths.

If anyone is installing 3 or more panels or simply need to use Y-connectors for couple panels, I recommend buying the flexible (1ft long?) Y-connectors. I used the hard plastic, maybe 5-6in long, Y-connectors the first time. They work fine, but the flexibility of the flexible ones made wire routing on the rooftop a little easier.

[byerskm]

My rough sketch was only showing the front half of the trailer, 26RBS. I just didn't show the AC because it doesn't interfere with the planned layout. Interesting, looking at your picture, the vent over the bedroom is in the same location as ours. Your AC and refrigerator vent both appear to be in the same location as on ours. However, your Zamp receptacles are definitely not in the same place. I am definitely not drilling a new hole to relocate it. I have to say, I'm happier with where they are on our trailer. They are in the middle (left to right) and some feet back from the bedroom vent. I like the location because the cables from both my panels will be able to reach without any extensions. I'll just orient the panels end to end so that the junction boxes are near the middle (as you can see on my sketch). The panels I ordered are Grape Solar 2 x 200W. The cables are 35" long + I did buy the MC4 to SAE adapters, which add another 16.5" of cable that is not needed, so I'll have some slack to work with. Probably need to have some for tilting.

[byerskm]

Zooming in on that last photo of yours, I do have a question or two.
1. Your vent over the front bedroom looks different. Did you install a MaxAir vent?
2. Your panel mounts look like they are on top of a square of tape or something and they don't appear to be sealed with dicor or alpha sealant around the screws and plate edges. Was this the final or did you add sealant to the mounts? If not, please let me know what you did to seal the roof penetrations. It looks a lot neater than just covering the mounts with self-leveling sealant.

[mikec557]

Zooming in on that last photo of yours, I do have a question or two.
1. Your vent over the front bedroom looks different. Did you install a MaxAir vent?
2. Your panel mounts look like they are on top of a square of tape or something and they don't appear to be sealed with dicor or alpha sealant around the screws and plate edges. Was this the final or did you add sealant to the mounts? If not, please let me know what you did to seal the roof penetrations. It looks a lot neater than just covering the mounts with self-leveling sealant.

Edit: I used #10 not #12 screws

You're right, no need to drill a new hole. Using their Zamp gland, and them wiring it all the way to the pass through saves a tremendous amount of work. I had to drill holes in the roof of the first two projects.

I got fancy this time and put a piece of eternabond tape where each foot was going to be screwed down. I don't think it's needed, but I did it anyway.

Placed panel where I wanted it, traced foot with a dull flat carpenter's pencil. Moved panel, applied tape, put the panel back on to the tape.

I should mention here, I did **NOT** peel the backing off of the tape that comes on the foot. That tape is for a fiberglass or metal roof. Just leave it on the bottom of the foot and screw it down. Besides, you couldn't remove it from the bottom of the foot if you wanted to.

That pic is before I was finished. I dicor(ed) all the way around the foot and all over the screw heads. I had to tilt the panel up with one hand to caulk the back side of the feet. I didn't put sealant around the edges of the eternabond tape. I don't think it's needed. There's no way water can get under that tape except by screw hole.


EDIT: I used #10, not #12 screws

BTW, AMSolar provided mounting screws that were 1/2 or 5/8 long. I didn't feel they were long enough. I bought a package of 25pcs #12 1-inch long stainless steel panhead screws from home depot for $4. Made my paranoia subside..

Roof "vent" is just OEM, twist knob inside. I installed a vent "cover" so it can be open even if it's rainy. The MaxxAir brand was on sale cheaper than the Camco/Camping World brand.

If I ever verify there's a constant hot 12v in the attic near that vent, I will install the 10 speed MaxxAir vent and fan. But we have the InCommand, and it has a lot of strange wiring and a "canbus" wiring system all over the camper. I don't want to figure out how to have the computer operate a MaxxAir fan. I want to just manually turn it off and on, or buy the one with the remote. But that's a project for another day.

[mikec557]

The panels I ordered are Grape Solar 2 x 200W. The cables are 35" long + I did buy the MC4 to SAE adapters, which add another 16.5" of cable that is not needed, so I'll have some slack to work with. Probably need to have some for tilting.

Just a quick note about something we didn't discuss...

I googled Grape solar 200 watt panels just to read about them. Never mind that I ended up looking at a 190 watt panel, it's the topic that counts. Maybe you already saw this, but just in case you didn't, or someone else following this hasn't gotten this far...

AMSolar mounting brackets are sold in two panel thicknesses. In my three projects, I've only purchased Renogy solar panels. What I bought were 35mm thick panels. The one and only Grape solar panel I looked at was 40mm thick. If you buy feet from AMSolar be sure to buy the right thickness bracket.

I'll come back and edit this after I go look at the AMSolar website.

Edit:

This is what I bought

https://amsolar.com/rv-mounting-accessories/91m-35ms

Double check the specs for your panel. This **MIGHT** be what you will need.

https://amsolar.com/rv-mounting-accessories/91m-40ms

And to anyone following along, watch the install video in the links above.

[byerskm]

Mike, when I was looking at the AMSolar mounting brackets, I did consider whether my panels would have 35mm or 40mm frame size. I ordered the 35mm and hope that wasn't a mistake. The spec sheet for the Grape Solar Panels I ordered indicate they are 35mm thick. I am attaching a PDF of the spec sheet. Please take a look and tell me if I am reading it wrong.

I am going to put up another post after this one to update you and any others following this thread.

[mikec557]

Mike, when I was looking at the AMSolar mounting brackets, I did consider whether my panels would have 35mm or 40mm frame size. I ordered the 35mm and hope that wasn't a mistake. The spec sheet for the Grape Solar Panels I ordered indicate they are 35mm thick. I am attaching a PDF of the spec sheet. Please take a look and tell me if I am reading it wrong.

I am going to put up another post after this one to update you and any others following this thread.

I agree with you. That spec sheet says, in two different places, they are 35mm. You should be good to go.

I can't wait to see progress pictures. 😁

[byerskm]

Equipment needed for the equipment panel was delivered this week so I was able to make some progress. Equipment received was:

-Victron 100 / 30 Solar Charge Controller
-Aims 2000W inverter with automatic transfer switch (for passing thru 120V)

Also, I received/picked up a few necessary items from Amazon and my local Home Depot:

-200 Amp DC breaker
-four circuit breaker box for sub-panel (used to isolate circuits fed by inverter)
-two 15 Amp breakers (one for the three outlets pre-wired by Keystone and one for an outlet I am adding to the passenger side of the pass-thru compartment so we have convenient outside access to an outlet)
- 14/2 romex with ground wire
-various hardware, wood, and supplies

Progress this week included:

1. Attaching a 2 X 4 to the aluminum frame inside the pass-through. Also cut a wedge shaped piece to provide an angle to match the angle the plywood panel will be on. This will provide a solid base to attach the top of the plywood equipment panel to. Metal "L" brackets will be used to secure the bottom of the plywood panel against the compartment wall and supported by the floor. See first picture.

2. The solar charge controller, inverter, breaker box, and 200 Amp DC breaker were mounted to the plywood panel. See the second attached picture. As much wiring was done as possible, while this panel is still on the bench. While the pass-through looks spacious enough to work in, it's a little tight and awkward working in there.

Tomorrow, the panel will be mounted in the pass-through compartment and wires connected. The red/black pair of 8AWG solar panel wires from the roof and to the batteries will need to be attached to the solar charge controller. Correctly identifying which pair comes from the roof and which goes to the batteries is, of course, critical. The volt meter will come in handy for this. Further, for safety sake, the batteries need to be disconnected before making these connections. Once the solar charger is connected, the 14/2 romex wire loop that runs from the power center to the three inverter outlets will need to be connected to the inverter and breaker box. The side coming from the power center will be connected to the inverter 120VAC input. The side going to the three outlets will be attached to the output side of one of the breakers. The inverter output is already connected to the input of the breaker box.

Two Battle Born 12V 100AH batteries should be delivered later this week. The WFCO WF-9850L2 converter/charger was already delivered. So, as soon as the batteries are delivered they can be installed along with the new converter/charger. The Cougar 26RBS came from the factory with a WFCO WF-9855 converter/charger which is not capable of properly charging Lithium Ion batteries. Hence, it is being replaced with the WF-9850L2.

Finally, two 200W solar panels should be delivered next week. By the time they are delivered, mounting them and plugging them in should be all that remains. That said, the rocker brackets from AM Solar have not delivered yet. Hopefully soon. Folks in Oregon have a lot to deal with right now with the fires. Business/shipments from the area are being affected. We wish the best for everyone there...hoping they all stay out of harms way.

[mikec557]

Nice work. And A-grade sanded plywood no less. Makes my OSB look like shoddy workmanship... LOL! Keep up the good work!

[byerskm]

Thanks Mike. It ain't done yet...let's hope it works when I am finished with it!

[byerskm]

BTW, Mike, I am not looking forward to drilling that big hole in the floor. I worked my tail off trying to find another way to get the battery wire from the battery to that compartment and be able to come through the wall like the other wires. Just can't, there's no good way. So, I have accepted it. The way you did it is best...getting it as close to the door frame as possible so that it is protected and out of the way. As it stands now, I don't have enough cable length to do that. I may have to exchange my 6' cables for 8' cables in order to do it the way you did.

[mikec557]

BTW, Mike, I am not looking forward to drilling that big hole in the floor. I worked my tail off trying to find another way to get the battery wire from the battery to that compartment and be able to come through the wall like the other wires. Just can't, there's no good way. So, I have accepted it. The way you did it is best...getting it as close to the door frame as possible so that it is protected and out of the way. As it stands now, I don't have enough cable length to do that. I may have to exchange my 6' cables for 8' cables in order to do it the way you did.

I was hoping for your sake that you'd find a way, maybe that your rig would be slightly different than mine...

I have a 1ft long 1/8in drill bit I bought at home depot a long time ago. I can't tell you how many times I've used it in a situation like this. After a lot of figuring, head scratching, and Re-measuring, I used it to drill the center of the hole all the way through the 2in thick floor. That way I could use a hole saw from both top and bottom and hope to meet up squarely. Mostly.

As I recall, locating the gray box on the under side dictated the exit hole on the top side (the pass through floor. You'll notice the top side floor goes a lot further forward than the under side does.

[byerskm]

I know what you mean. I have a long bit like that. What length were your battery/inverter cables? I have examined it from the bottom, prodding with a long bit in the area where all the other cables go in. Problem is that "I" beam. The cables go under it, then in behind it, and then go thru a hole in it to get back in front so they can go up the sloped wall. I'm sure you know this. There's just no way to fish a thick cable through these twist and turns. I'm glad you told me that deck/floor is 2" thick. I never would have known until I ran into problems. I was planning to use a hole saw I have for my drill also. If I didn't know about the 2", I surely would have made a mistake or two in location and really buggered up my pass-thru floor.

[mikec557]

I know what you mean. I have a long bit like that. What length were your battery/inverter cables? I have examined it from the bottom, prodding with a long bit in the area where all the other cables go in. Problem is that "I" beam. The cables go under it, then in behind it, and then go thru a hole in it to get back in front so they can go up the sloped wall. I'm sure you know this. There's just no way to fish a thick cable through these twist and turns. I'm glad you told me that deck/floor is 2" thick. I never would have known until I ran into problems. I was planning to use a hole saw I have for my drill also. If I didn't know about the 2", I surely would have made a mistake or two in location and really buggered up my pass-thru floor.

I bought an $80 hydraulic cable crimper from Amazon and made my own 2ga cables. There was just no way I could figure out how to utilize pre-made cables. So lengthwise I don't know. I bought something like 20ft of cable, held it up from battery to inside destination, added an extra foot or two and cut the cable. Then fine tuned the length as I installed it...

Edit: dinner interrupted my train of thought...

I needed to remake some 6ga cable ends because of bad crimps at the factory. I needed to make all my own 8ga wires because they didn't leave a loop inside the pass through. I had to reroute the battery to frame connection and replaced their 6ga with 2ga, and part of that was putting the shunt for the battery monitor inside the pass through. It needed 2ga, so it was easier to go 2ga to the frame. I bought cables, ends, shrink wrap, and the crimper from Amazon. It was nice to have the right length cable for each task. It's the first time I did that. Now I'm spoiled, it's the only way I'd do that.

[WJQ]

Both of you are doing a great job documenting your solar install. Here is one item others might consider. I bought a manual cable crimper from Amazon. As one of you pointed out, trying to figure out the battery cable length in advance is a challenge. So, I decided on making my own cables as Mike did. Here is the link for the crimper.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00MVE48Z6/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o05_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

I bought mine a month ago for crimping 1 AWG cables. It works great. It came with a cable cutter which also works great. I can't imaging cutting 1 AWG wire with anything else. I will be revising some of the Keystone 6 AWG wiring and the crimper covers it just fine.

I bought my wire from http://acdcwire.com/ . It is welding cable and great quality at much lower cost than I foound elsewhere. I calculated my wire length at 5 feet and then ordered 6 feet. I had 3 inches of red left over and no black. So much for my calculations. There are easy wire lengths to miss on your first install such as the lenght needed for coupling a cutoff switch and a fuse. I also ordered the necessary lugs from them as they have all different wire sizes and come in different post sizes..

I also forgot to order some additional wire to connect my two 6 volt batteries. It needs to be upgraded from the No. 6 AWG to 1 AWG.

Keep up the good documentation. I am done but have not updateded my thread. I just finished a 5 day trip and all works well.

[mikec557]

Both of you are doing a great job documenting your solar install. Here is one item others might consider. A manual cable crimper from Amazon. As one of you pointed out, trying to figure out the battery cable length in advance is a challenge. So, I decided on making my own cables as Mike did. Here is the link for the crimper.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00MVE48Z6/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o05_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

I bought mine a month ago for crimping 1 AWG cables. It works great. I cam with a cable cutter which also works great. I will be revising some of the Keystone 6 AWG wiring and it covers it just fine.

I bought my wire from http://acdcwire.com/ . It is welding cable and great quality at much lower cost than I foound elsewhere. I calculate my wire length at 5 feet and then ordered 6 feet. I had 3 inches of red left over and no black. So much for my calculations. I also ordered the lugs from them.

I also forgot to order some additional wire to connect my two 6 volt batteries. It needs to be upgraded from the No. 6 AWG to 1 AWG.

Keep up the good documentation. I am done but have not updateded my thread. I just finished a 5 day trip and all works well.


Thanks. It's my way of paying back. I've learned a lot from reading other people's threads. I'm glad my installation experience will help others with the same or similar project.

I went with the hydraulic because I thought it might fit into tighter locations and because I thought I could get tighter crimps rather than using my muscle power on the "manual" crimpers. Too often I got bad crimps using the hand squeezer method.

Speaking of which, I have to go back and finish up my other thread where I got a false Hot/Gnd electrical cross error light. Turned out to be a loose (read: disconnected) Neutral. What a pain that repair was. But the repair brought 4 outlets back to life and provided electricity so I can add an outlet in the slideout where there is presently no outlet.

[byerskm]

Mike and WJQ,

No doubt, great help from you guys sharing on the forum. I bought a hydraulic crimper also, received it Wednesday. Today, I got all my electrical done. That crimper was invaluable. I'll post some pictures and a few things I've done differently (based on advice from my 84 yr old BSEE dad). Speaking of which, he shared an article with me about how common lightning damage is to RVs. Direct strikes are rare, but indirect are common and do a lot of damage ($$$'s). The problem is even moreso for RVs with solar. I will share the link tomorrow. We should probably start a new thread on this subject, if it doesn't already exist. Surge protection devices, SPD, work very well to protect all the appliances and solar related equipment.

[WJQ]

I am definitely interested in the article you referenced. I currently have no SPD protection but I do have a lot invested in RV electrical components.

I rarely/never connect to shore power. All of my camping is in locations where there is none. Thus, the need for my solar charging system and my Honda 2000 for backup if the weather limits the solar gain.

[byerskm]

The greatest risk for indirect lightening damage, and other power anomalies, does come thru the shore power. So, the fact you don't connect to shore power greatly reduced your risks. Here's the link to the article on this subject.

https://www.ervsolar.com/rv-blog/RV-Lightning-Strike-When-will-it-happen-to-you

[byerskm]

Yesterday was the day to get all the electronics finished and installed in the pass-thru. The first thing I'll report is that with a good hydraulic crimper on hand and being able to make high quality splices, I chose to extend the Keystone pre-installed wires such that I could do all the wiring and electronics install on the board sitting on a table just outside the pass-thru opening. Having climbed inside the pass-thru a couple times, it was clear that making some of those connections was going to be really tough. One difference in my 26RBS and Mike's is the fact my board had to be positioned further into the compartment due to the position of the auto-level controls. The first picture shows my board sitting on the table where I completed all of the connections, except for the battery cable to the inverter. Well, there were two ground wires I didn't put on until the board was installed. This was just a logistics issue as I didn't have the bare copper wire needed yesterday and so I went ahead and installed the board. Putting those ground wires in today validated that it was worth extending those wires so I could do most of the work outside the pass-thru.

The second pictures shows a shot of the main wiring involved. I also installed breakers on the hot wires going into and out of the Solar Charge Controller (SCC). Doing this is really beneficial as you can isolate components and energize components carefully and in the correct sequence after all the connections have been made.

The third photo shows the board installed in the pass-thru with the battery cables attached. The ground wires are still not installed.

Then, the fourth photo is after I attached the ground wires. Note, I ran the main ground from the breaker box to the black Battery cable coming out of the SCC. That black cable was installed by Keystone and it attaches to the trailer frame before continuing on to the negative battery post. The attachment to the trailer frame provides a solid ground for the equipment. The other ground wire you will see in the fourth photo is the case ground wire from the inverter running to the ground lug in the breaker box.

The fifth photo is another shot of the installed panel, but taken a bit further back so you can see the battery cables coming up through the floor. I copied Mike's work here as I couldn't find any better route for those very heavy cables. I chose to use 1" wire loom, unslit.

Now, stepping back to look at a couple pictures of the battery cables install. Just a couple pictures here, photos 6 - 9. I'm going to try to post now, to see if all those photos will load.

[byerskm]

So, MIKEC557, I imagine you can see a few similarities. Your posts have been very helpful.

At this point, I am almost finished except for installing the panels on the roof. I can't proceed with that until the mounting brackets from AMSolar deliver late this week. Shipments have been slow to get out of there, due to the fires and how busy they are.

I said almost because there are two items that can be done later. You may see the coiled up romex on the right side of the board. That is for an outlet I will install on the opposite side of the pass-thru, so it is accessible to the area under the awning where we spend a lot of time. Then, there is the remote for the inverter. I already connected it. It is connected with a phone line that is several feet long. For now, I am leaving it in the pass-thru. Later, I will run that wire up to the bedroom and install it on the wall in a convenient location.

I can report that I powered up the inverter and verified it was working properly. It was nice to see a tangible result. Hopefully by this time next week, I'll have my panels installed and everything will be working.

[mikec557]

So, MIKEC557, I imagine you can see a few similarities. Your posts have been very helpful.

At this point, I am almost finished except for installing the panels on the roof. I can't proceed with that until the mounting brackets from AMSolar deliver late this week. Shipments have been slow to get out of there, due to the fires and how busy they are.

I said almost because there are two items that can be done later. You may see the coiled up romex on the right side of the board. That is for an outlet I will install on the opposite side of the pass-thru, so it is accessible to the area under the awning where we spend a lot of time. Then, there is the remote for the inverter. I already connected it. It is connected with a phone line that is several feet long. For now, I am leaving it in the pass-thru. Later, I will run that wire up to the bedroom and install it on the wall in a convenient location.

I can report that I powered up the inverter and verified it was working properly. It was nice to see a tangible result. Hopefully by this time next week, I'll have my panels installed and everything will be working.


Your install looks great!

Just a thought on the remote button. When I installed an AIMS on our 5th wheel the remote button had a "back end" that was about 1.5 x 1.5 inch that was supposed recessed into the wall. I didn't want to make another custom hole in the wall to flush mount it. Instead, I mounted it into a gray box just like you used for the solar project. I used a multi-tool to cut a square hole in the face of a plastic single gang solid cover. Then I surface mounted the box with a couple screws.

Later, when I sold that RV I was able to keep the AIMS and the remote without leaving a square hole in the paneling.

Hope that makes sense.

Again, great job on your install. It looks great.

[byerskm]

MIKEC557 & WJQ, I've been meaning to ask you a couple questions.

1. Ventilation, to prevent overheating. Have either of you installed any type of ventilation to prevent the compartment, and hence equipment, from overheating? If yes, please share what your approach. If not, please share your experience without it.

2. Battery vs Solar Charge Controller (SCC) temperature. The Victron documentation states that more than 5 degree C difference will affect performance and battery life, unless a battery temperature sensor is used to provide the SCC with battery temperature so that the charging parameters can be adjusted to compensate. I spoke with Battle Born after reading this and they told me not to worry, it would be insignificant. I described my install where I would expect temperature difference to frequently exceed 5 degrees C. Have either of you addressed this issue? Please share.

[WJQ]

The Aims 2000 W inverter I have installed recommends a 250 amp fuse. My 250 amp fuse box came with 60 amp fuses inside! Thus, on my next trip a few days later I limited my power use to much less than my design goal of about 1500 Watts.

The power use I tested was limited to about 150 to 200 Watts. At that power use, there was no surface temp rise based on the "touch" monitor. More later when I get the larger fuses!

On the battery temperature issue, I just bought and installed the Victron battery temp monitor. Pretty low cost and transmits data to my Victron App.
So, temperature compensation is automatic. Is it necessary? I can not offer how nevessary but at this price I am not concerned about how necessary. My two 6 volt batteries cost north of $300 so life extension is a good goal.

[mikec557]

MIKEC557 & WJQ, I've been meaning to ask you a couple questions.

1. Ventilation, to prevent overheating. Have either of you installed any type of ventilation to prevent the compartment, and hence equipment, from overheating? If yes, please share what your approach. If not, please share your experience without it.

2. Battery vs Solar Charge Controller (SCC) temperature. The Victron documentation states that more than 5 degree C difference will affect performance and battery life, unless a battery temperature sensor is used to provide the SCC with battery temperature so that the charging parameters can be adjusted to compensate. I spoke with Battle Born after reading this and they told me not to worry, it would be insignificant. I described my install where I would expect temperature difference to frequently exceed 5 degrees C. Have either of you addressed this issue? Please share.

Regarding ventilation, I have not provided any. We've camped from cold to 105F degrees and the passthrough was whatever temp it is/was. In my pass through I don't see how I could provide any ventilation that didn't also allow some amount of water infiltration.

Regarding battery temperature, I have the Victron doo-dad that you bolt to a battery positive terminal and run the wire to the SCC, but I haven't installed it. On my 5thW I didn't need to because the batteries and the SCC were in the same front compartment. On my 26RBSWE the batteries are out on the tongue and the SCC is inside the pass through, so there very likely is a temperature difference. But between the Progress Dynamics converter/charger always being on when we have hookups, and the solar constantly on whether we are on solar or boondocking, I'm relying on the Battleborn BMS to take care of the batteries. With the 200Ah of usable power being so much more than I need, I don't care if the batteries are less than perfectly fully charged because of a temperature difference.

I like BattleBorn's answer: fugetaboutit!

Mike

[byerskm]

I also have the Aims 2000W inverter (with pass thru/auto transfer switch). Have only put 100-200 Watt load on it for brief period. Likewise, no heat per hand check and cooling fan did not even come on. So, jury still out here also.

I spoke to Battle Born again on the battery vs SCC temp. I have two of their Lithium Ion 100AH 12V batteries. The guy I spoke to today gave more explanation. He said with their batteries, not to worry. The onboard battery management system (BMS microprocessor on each battery) monitors all the variables and protects the battery. So, basically, he said it will prevent the Victron from applying to much charge voltage if conditions warrant. He stated that the Victron works very well with their batteries without need for the additional temperature sensor hardware. He did say for lead acid batteries, it is probably important.

[byerskm]

Just got your reply after making my post. All in agreement in regard to Battle Born BMS. Good deal.

[byerskm]

Your install looks great!

Just a thought on the remote button. When I installed an AIMS on our 5th wheel the remote button had a "back end" that was about 1.5 x 1.5 inch that was supposed recessed into the wall. I didn't want to make another custom hole in the wall to flush mount it. Instead, I mounted it into a gray box just like you used for the solar project. I used a multi-tool to cut a square hole in the face of a plastic single gang solid cover. Then I surface mounted the box with a couple screws.

Later, when I sold that RV I was able to keep the AIMS and the remote without leaving a square hole in the paneling.

Hope that makes sense.

Again, great job on your install. It looks great.
Thanks for the suggestion on the Aims inverter remote. It is exactly as you mentioned. I do plan to find a way to locate it inside, but without the hole in the wall.

[WJQ]

I find the remote for the Aims 2000 very useful when I turn things off at night when using the inverter. The only downside is that my Wally for Dish TV has to go through its time-consuming ritual each time it is activated and takes about 10 minutes.

I located in the side of my sink cabinet, I routed the control wire at the same time I routed the 120V AC wires for my new subpanel. These are routed under the floor by cutting slots int the coroplast and later retaping the slots.

Another option I have use in a different RV is to create a wooden block with the reght dimenstions that looks like a small panel and mount it with screws to the surcace where you do not want a hole. I have used a two piece snap together plastic channel to cover the wire if needed (I can't recall the trade name). It has a double back tape on the wall side and the from cover snaps in place.

You definitely need to choose a convenient accessible location. It not only indicates the on/off status of the inverter, the "on" green color changes when you are connected to shore power (in my case, my Honda Generator).

[byerskm]

Since this is my final post in regard to describing the install, I want to thank MIKEC557 and WJQ one last time. Your shared experiences and ideas posted were extremely helpful and saved me a lot of time and probably prevented me from pursuing less effective solutions to some of the tasks.

I finished up the installation this past Saturday, when I installed the panels. My panels are 200W each and weigh 25lbs ea. Not so heavy, but not something you can just grab in one hand and climb the ladder with. So, it was nice to have my wife's (Mary) help on this final push to finish the job. We used a blanket to protect panels and side of trailer and rope to lift the panels carefully up to the roof, as Mary guided the panel from the ground as I lifted.

Installing the panels was somewhat anti-climatic as it was pretty simple, thanks to all the great advice received on the forum. The AMSolar rocker mounts are great and easy to install. I had installed the panel part of the mounts prior. So, all that was required was to position the panels, mark the screw locations, clean the surface with isopropyl alcohol, screw the mounts to the roof, and use dicor RV roof sealant to completely cover the mounts to assure no roof leakage.

I chose not to drill small pilot holes before driving the mounting screws. I wanted the screws to be as tight as possible in the wood. Also, I chose to use a hand-held screw driver and not my drill to drive the screws in. I just didn't want to take the slightest risk of mucking up a single screw hole. My drill has various settings to reduce the torque and prevent stripping out a hole, but I just didn't want to risk it. Being able to feel how tight each screw was, as it bottomed out, gave me much better sense of when to stop.

I also used the Eternabond tape, suggested here on the forum, to anchor the panel wires to the roof. I'll have to monitor this to be sure the wires are not flapping in the wind while driving. I wanted to leave enough slack so that the panels can be tilted if needed. So, I'm not 100% sure the wires will be secure enough. I do plan to go back on the roof and use electrical tape to wrap/seal the MC4 connectors and prevent any moisture entry into the sockets.

I've posted a couple pictures below, of the panels installed on the roof. For the last few days, I've been monitoring the system and everything is working great. I really like the Victron Connect app for monitoring the output of the panels, the output of the solar charger, and the battery condition.

Finally, we met out goal! Installation and check out prior to Oct 1st. We will be leaving for a month long RV trip come Friday Oct 2nd. Having the solar power adds a degree of freedom for our travels that we will really enjoy.

[roadglide]

Have a good solar system will give you the freedom to visit see different places. I have a simple voltmeter wired direct to the batteries and mounted inside . I notice the voltmeter is always 14+ when using solar.

[glendar10]

Here is a drawing of how the solar should be

[mikec557]

Here is a drawing of how the solar should be

Thanks for the drawing. I don't mean to look a gift horse in the mouth but is there any way you can scan that to PDF so it's a little clearer?

Thanks

[glendar10]

Is there a way gor you to email me abc I will send you a better copy. But it is still hard to read need magnifying glasses readi. But it does show a lot but it still does not tell me where they bring the wire from the roof top down. I still can’t find it and mine is a 2021 5er

[mikec557]

Is there a way gor you to email me abc I will send you a better copy. But it is still hard to read need magnifying glasses readi. But it does show a lot but it still does not tell me where they bring the wire from the roof top down. I still can’t find it and mine is a 2021 5er

Hi

I just sent you a PM, private message, with my email address.

As for where your wire loop for your SCC is located, have you found the loop of Romex wire for the inverter? If so where is it located?

What model 5er do you have?

Mike

[glendar10]

Hi

I just sent you a PM, private message, with my email address.

As for where your wire loop for your SCC is located, have you found the loop of Romex wire for the inverter? If so where is it located?

What model 5er do you have?

Mike
Look for eather the plastic dome like the one that has the Zamp stickerthat one is to be the controller location there might be a second one on ceiling I. The storage or I have seen it in a metal electrical box with a blank off cover on it it I one wire wire two stranded wire. They have a breaker fo it now as the three outlets dhoud be working? After I get home I will send you a better copy in PDFs. There should be 4 wires behind the dome with Zamp main 6 if they were nice and brought the down wires there as they all tie into the controler

[Kevin J]

We are awaiting our 250bhs and in the meantime have been trying to piece to together what solar/inverter prep means. Thanks for all the useful posts/photos.

I asked Zamp for the limits of their solar ready 2-port. Here is their reply which I hope is helpful to everybody.........

Our double and triple port roof caps are wired in parallel, thus increasing the solar panel amperage when two or more panels are used.
The 3-port roof cap is rated for a total of 510-Watts/30-Amps.

I had seen 510W mentioned before but wanted to know the Amps limit.

[joninthout]

Has anyone upgraded their 2021 Bullet 273BHS for solar on the roof and installed an auto switch-over inverter? There is an 8 or 10 awg red and black wire in the basement behind a plastic protective box as well as the 110 white cable ready to be cut for a auto switch-over inverter.

The red and black wires are routed out from the back of plastic protective box to the battery but are not hooked up to the battery (correctly). A 10amp fuse box has been crimped to the red wire (with no fuse in it) not hooked up to the battery but is sitting in the battery box. Plus, the black wire was hooked up to the positive side of the battery (What?).

Next, I want to put solar on the roof but need to know if the dual solar gland on the roof is wired in parallel and where the wires are run so I can hookup a solar controller in the basement.

Thank you for any help as this thread has been very educational for me.

[mikec557]

Has anyone upgraded their 2021 Bullet 273BHS for solar on the roof and installed an auto switch-over inverter? There is an 8 or 10 awg red and black wire in the basement behind a plastic protective box as well as the 110 white cable ready to be cut for a auto switch-over inverter.

The red and black wires are routed out from the back of plastic protective box to the battery but are not hooked up to the battery (correctly). A 10amp fuse box has been crimped to the red wire (with no fuse in it) not hooked up to the battery but is sitting in the battery box. Plus, the black wire was hooked up to the positive side of the battery (What?).

Next, I want to put solar on the roof but need to know if the dual solar gland on the roof is wired in parallel and where the wires are run so I can hookup a solar controller in the basement.

Thank you for any help as this thread has been very educational for me.

Mine is not a Bullet but all the technical information is the same.

10 amp fuse holder crimped to the red/positive wire? It's probably just a flat blade automotive style (atc?) fuse holder. Put the right size fuse in it based on the solar system you install. But look closely, there is usually a "solar port" near the tongue on a TT, or very near the front of a 5er that has a 10 amp limit. That is not part of the rooftop solar system. The red wire from the solar panel -> SCC -> the battery will likely use a larger amp fuse. On our TT Keystone wired a 30a self resetting dc circuit breaker. The kind you usually see with a red plastic cover over it.


If the roof gland is a dual port and there's only one red/black wire in the pass through loop, then the two ports are combined into one wire pair. It's neither series nor parallel. It's more like a Y-connector. That one wire pair will have all the power from your two rooftop panels.

You would likely want to mount your solar charge controller (SCC) in the basement, or pass through, because you're going to cut the red/black loop. The wires from the rooftop go into the SCC marked for the panels and the wires from the battery will go into the SCC on the screws marked battery. If it's in the budget, I'd recommend a SCC with Bluetooth. It's nice using your phone to check what the SCC is doing rather than getting your head in close to the SCC display to read it.

Keep in mind its highly recommended you put a fuse or circuit breaker on the positive wire from the panel before it enters the SCC and one on the positive wire between the battery and SCC. Think of this 2nd one as being in addition to the flat fuse mentioned above. I chose to put both of these right below the SCC.

If you look closely at the rooftop gland it is probably embossed with a maximum wattage. My two port says 500 watts max.

Think of the romex loop the same way. If you cut the loop, one end comes from the breaker panel and is hot when you're plugged into shore power. The other end goes to the 2 or 3 outlets that the inverter/shore power will feed.

Don't just cut these two loops exactly in the middle of the loop. Figure out where you're going to put your SCC and or inverter. They're location may make you want one side of the loop longer or shorter.

How big are the two loops the factory gave you to work with? How about posting a picture of your wiring location.

[Kevin J]

Great info Mike. Thanks.

Jon. See my earlier post quoted again below. The Zamp tech help told me their roof ports are wired in parallel. They suggested 510w and 30A max.

We are awaiting our 250bhs and in the meantime have been trying to piece to together what solar/inverter prep means. Thanks for all the useful posts/photos.

I asked Zamp for the limits of their solar ready 2-port. Here is their reply which I hope is helpful to everybody.........

Our double and triple port roof caps are wired in parallel, thus increasing the solar panel amperage when two or more panels are used.
The 3-port roof cap is rated for a total of 510-Watts/30-Amps.

I had seen 510W mentioned before but wanted to know the Amps limit.

[joninthout]

Thank you so much for replying. As soon as I can get over to my camper, I'll post some pictures of the various wiring setup the trailer has.

10 amp fuse holder crimped to the red/positive wire? It's probably just a flat blade automotive style (atc?) Yes.

Don't just cut these two loops exactly in the middle of the loop. Figure out where you're going to put your SCC and or inverter. They're location may make you want one side of the loop longer or shorter.

How big are the two loops the factory gave you to work with? How about posting a picture of your wiring location. The white one is a big bundle. The red and black wire I may change out for a lower gauge set since I want to distribute power to the inverter and also send back charge from the SCC. I'll be using the similar setups from this thread. Nice thing is, the red and black wire are already fished through the camper out to the battery. I could do a couple of different wiring since it's already there.

See my earlier post quoted again below. The Zamp tech help told me their roof ports are wired in parallel. They suggested 510w and 30A max. Will do and thanks for posting all this golden info!!

Pictures soon to follow...

[mikec557]

Thank you so much for replying... Will do and thanks for posting all this golden info!!... Pictures soon to follow...

You're welcome. I'm just paying forward for the help and advice I've received from others in various threads. Looking forward to your pictures.

Mike

[joninthout]

You're welcome. I'm just paying forward for the help and advice I've received from others in various threads. Looking forward to your pictures.

Mike
Here are some pictures from the 273BHS basement and tongue.

[joninthout]

Here are some pictures from the 273BHS basement and tongue.
Some more.

So what I have figured out is that the black and red wire coming out of the trailer to the battery is for the lower solar hookup. I tested it by connecting the exposed end to the battery and then put a meter on the Zamp gland by the tongue and got a reading from the battery. I didn't get a reading when I unhooked the wires from the batter.

The Red and Black heavier gauge wire in the basement is probably the solar lead from the roof gland. As you can tell, the wires are colored differenlty than the wires by the tongue. They are not hot when I put a meter on them. Though I didn't test the basement wires when I hooked up the red and black on the battery to check the port by the tongue.

Any ideas from here will help me greatly. Thanks!

[mikec557]

Some more.

So what I have figured out is that the black and red wire coming out of the trailer to the battery is for the lower solar hookup. I tested it by connecting the exposed end to the battery and then put a meter on the Zamp gland by the tongue and got a reading from the battery. I didn't get a reading when I unhooked the wires from the batter.

The Red and Black heavier gauge wire in the basement is probably the solar lead from the roof gland. As you can tell, the wires are colored differenlty than the wires by the tongue. They are not hot when I put a meter on them. Though I didn't test the basement wires when I hooked up the red and black on the battery to check the port by the tongue.

Any ideas from here will help me greatly. Thanks!

On the pair of wires coming out of the front wall of the pass through (the pair that was under the black plastic shell), if I understand right, there's no power coming from them. If that's true, and only if that's true, twist them together. Then go up on the rooftop and check both SAE ports, individually, for continuity. They should both have continuity because you twisted the other ends together. Let us know if this is true. I guess I should have asked, do you know how to use a multi-meter to check for continuity?

I suppose for verification you should untwist the wires and make sure you no longer have continuity on the roof.

If this checks out, this pair of wires connects to the Solar Charge Controller (SCC).

But I'm a little confused on where the wires from the battery go. Where are the two bare ends? In the end, they have to enter into the pass through to connect to the SCC. Is there any kind of conduit or chase you can push them through, from the outside tongue area into the pass through?

Why do you say the two pair of wires are different color? They both look like red and black on my cell phone...

Edit: I just reread your post. The red/black pair going to the Zamp port on the tongue... that's for one of those portable solar panel setups. So that pair is not the one we're looking for.

Is there no other red/black pair running from the batteries on the tongue into the pass through?

[mikec557]

Another thought, the SAE port mounted on the front brace (in the 3rd or 4th picture), it doesn't look factory to me. I can't remember, is this a new trailer or are you the 2nd owner? Do you think there's any chance someone pulled the wires out of the pass through?

[joninthout]

Another thought, the SAE port mounted on the front brace (in the 3rd or 4th picture), it doesn't look factory to me. I can't remember, is this a new trailer or are you the 2nd owner? Do you think there's any chance someone pulled the wires out of the pass through?

I'm glad you brought that up. This is a 2021 273BHS Bullet and we bought it brand new. What I've heard, when we bought the trailer, is that during this pandemic, Keystone was just throwing parts together to get trailers out to be sold. They even had a recall on our trailer b/c they forgot to put the front brace in to keep the nose from pushing in while driving down the road.

The SAE solar port by the tongue does look different than the round back-plated zamp port on our last trailer. But at least we know the red and black wire coming out of the trailer are connected to the front solar SAE port. I have a portable 130 watt solar panel with mounted SCC on the back so I can plug right in once I get the 10amp fuse put on the wire going to the battery.

I'm going to have to do some more digging to see if I can run a wire from the basement to the battery to hookup the inverter and SCC. More to come soon.

[mikec557]

What I've read elsewhere is the wires in the pass thru are for the SCC but a wire needs to be run from that to the battery. Might fit your description?

Technically that should not be the case for the SCC. That red/black pair should be one piece from rooftop, loop in the pass through, and proceed out to the battery. Cut the loop and install the SCC in the middle of it. Typically this is 8ga wire.

Now the inverter is as you describe. Keystone does not run a red/black pair of wire from the battery to the inside of the pass through for the inverter. That pair is provided by the inverter installer, be that owner or help hired by the owner. UNLESS the RV was ordered with the inverter (and solar panel and SCC) installed at the factory or at the dealer. By the way, I looked at 3 new 2020 units on a Camping World lot that had an inverter installed. I couldn't tell if it was installed by Keystone or Camping World. Each used 2ga wire from battery to 1200 watt Xantrax inverter. Longer cable run or bigger inverter may require larger cable size.

[Kevin J]

Mike.

Your are correct. My confusion. It is the romex loop in the pass thru that requires a wire to be run from the inverter to the battery.

The red/black wire should run continuous from the roof Zamp 2-port to the battery; for the SCC.

Also note that some reports suggest the wiring to the Zamp port is inverse of expected. So check the positive and negative.

Message above with incorrect info deleted.

[mikec557]

Mike.

Your are correct. My confusion. It is the romex loop in the pass thru that requires a wire to be run from the inverter to the battery.

The red/black wire should run continuous from the roof Zamp 2-port to the battery; for the SCC.

Also note that some reports suggest the wiring to the Zamp port is inverse of expected. So check the positive and negative.

Message above with incorrect info deleted.

No worries Kevin. I was just trying to help clarify.

I was unlucky in that they didn't leave a 12v loop of slack for the SCC for me in the pass through. They pulled the line tight from rooftop to battery. Ugg. It wasn't a complete disaster though because I just ran some 8ga from the SCC to the positive and negative bus bars I installed in the pass through as part of the inverter installation.

[joninthout]

.

I'm going to have to do some more digging to see if I can run a wire from the basement to the battery to hookup the inverter and SCC. More to come soon.

More digging done. I hooked up the Black and Red cable coming out of the camper to the battery and have success in getting a 12v reading from the solar port at the front of the trailer. I also put a 10amp fuse on the end of the Red cable.

Continuity check has confirmed that the roof top solar gland cables are the cables coming into the basement next to the romex cables from my picture. Now, where to run the output from the SCC to the battery?

Instead of fishing a lead though the camper out to the battery, I was thinking I may tap into the battery disconnect located in the water house for SCC and inverter power. It's not too far from where the romex and SCC cable and also all of the leads from the battery run over that way to the battery disconnect area. I will have to remove the wall protecting the water house back to see what's in there. I thought it was kind of weird that the battery disconnect was in the water house.:dizzy:

What do you think of my idea of tapping into the battery disconnect switch?

[mikec557]

What do you think of my idea of tapping into the battery disconnect switch?

Well... It depends. I think my battery disconnect is 6ga wire (and it's on the positive wire), so in theory it would be okay to connect an 8ga wire coming out of the SCC (through a breaker/fuse) to the 6ga. But I have read many opinions that would disagree and say you should run straight to the battery. So this decision may be one you decide how you feel about it. And, it still leaves you looking for a way to run the negative wire out of the SCC to the battery.

In a way it's not too different than what I did. Instead of using a battery disconnect as a junction, I used a 4-post bus bar. And instead of 6ga carrying the load, I used 2ga because I had to run 2ga from the battery to the bus bar anyway because it fed my inverter. You should check out the back of your disconnect switch and see if the post is big enough for you to add a lug and still tighten the nut.

I'm not clear if you meant to feed an inverter from the battery disconnect lug. (if I'm wrong, disregard this paragraph) If you are considering it, it's my opinion you cannot do so. I think any inverter you choose to power those 3 outlets will be a 1000 watt or greater. It's going to require 2ga (or greater) wires from the battery to feed it.

And if you have to route 2ga (or greater) wire from the battery to the inverter, it will probably present you with a better place to land your wires from the SCC. That's how I ended up with the bus bars.

It's not a very good picture, but you can see the positive and negative bus bars in the top left corner of this picture.

[mikec557]

They weren't cheap. They're sold in different stud sizes. I chose 5/16 because that's what most of my other connections needed. About $39.


https://www.amazon.com/Black-Power-Distribution-Block-BUSBAR/dp/B07C6483RC/ref=mp_s_a_1_4?dchild=1&keywords=electrical+bus+bar&qid=1615074862&sprefix=Electrical+bu&sr=8-4

[joninthout]

They weren't cheap. They're sold in different stud sizes. I chose 5/16 because that's what most of my other connections needed. About $39.


https://www.amazon.com/Black-Power-Distribution-Block-BUSBAR/dp/B07C6483RC/ref=mp_s_a_1_4?dchild=1&keywords=electrical+bus+bar&qid=1615074862&sprefix=Electrical+bu&sr=8-4

So here is my current start of my setup for Solar and Inverter. As you can see, I'm using some or most of the ideas from this thread to get my install started. I still need to purchase the SCC, some 8ga wire, 6ga wire, and another 30amp breaker. The inverter is a auto switch over at 1200 watts.

I also want to note that my camper came with a residential fridge that is already connected to an inverter somewhere in the camper. It's on a 20amp breaker in the fuse panel and the light inside the fridge is on when disconnected from Shore Power. I know it drains the battery when at my last outing the camp site at Stone Mountain in Atlanta lost power due to a transformer going out. The camp host told me the power outage was due to a couple of geese. Not sure if they lived.

Anyway, I only had the stock 65amp/hr battery at the time and had to shut down everything during the outage to keep the heat going (it was about 32 degrees the two weeks I was out there) and the fridge. That's when I decided to get two 100 amp/hr batteries and are now wired in parallel.

Have any of you actually taken the wood panel off from the basement that conceals all of the wiring behind it? Is it a pain in butt?

I would rather route power out to the battery from the basement without having to cut holes in my basement floor. Maybe if I took off the wood panel, I could figure out where the rest of the wiring goes out to the tongue.

The last picture is my plan...

[mikec557]

So here is my current start of my setup for Solar and Inverter...

Have any of you actually taken the wood panel off from the basement that conceals all of the wiring behind it? Is it a pain in butt?

I would rather route power out to the battery from the basement without having to cut holes in my basement floor. Maybe if I took off the wood panel, I could figure out where the rest of the wiring goes out to the tongue.

The last picture is my plan...

Just a couple ideas about where the stock inverter for the fridge is located. At first I was thinking that fridges are generally located near the breaker/fuse panel inside the RV and that they may have screwed it to the floor right behind the breaker/fuse panel. That's where they have put the WFCO charger/converter on a couple of my RV trailer experiences. Its a good dead air space that they might use.

But then I thought. The longer 12vdc the distance from the battery to the inverter is killer. Unlike the AC line (which does have "some" voltage drop with distance) the DC line drops quickly and requires much larger wires from battery to inverter to prevent it. So "logically" they would not put the stock inverter near the fridge. They'd put it near the batteries. Then run romex, the "longer wires" to the fridge, because romex is much cheaper than larger 12vdc cabling. Soooo, all that said, I'd look for the stock converter up front. Maybe under the front bed somewhere.

In my two Keystone Cougar trailers experiences, the front wall of the pass through is not removable. The aluminum framing that supports the bed above it is screwed onto that front wall piece, which is itself only 1/8 inch luan wood. It even tucks down below the point where my floor butts up to it. I can't say if your Bullet is built the same way, but I'd put my money on the bet that it is.

If I can load these pictures right, the first three are pics of my TT. You can see a trim piece on the floor which hides the gap of the front pass through wall going down in front of the floor. And another trim piece hiding the gap between the driver side wall of the TT and the front wall, also indicating the front wall luan extends beyound the side wall surface. The third one is a close up the the metal "conduit" that they punch though the 1in-square frame aluminum tubing. They used those to run the wire through the middle of the wall thickness. That is between the outer skin and inner skin of the front cap/wall.

The 4th and 5th pics are from a TT on the Camping World sales lot. They show factory installed 2ga wire running from the battery to the inverter. I think it could be done during the right stage of construction of the TT. You can see that there's about a 1/2 inch gap between the bottom of the front cap/wall and the steel cross member on the frame. I tried to fish a wire up through that same gap on my TT but there was just too much slope and unseeable obstructions. Yet clearly they ran the 2ga up through there and out through the plastic clam shell on the inside wall of the pass through. I couldn't tell if there was a clear path or if they used short metal conduits in the thickness of the wall like you see in one of my first three pics.

I know there is a mess of wires behind that front wall, but I just could not find a way into mine.

[joninthout]

Just a couple ideas about where the stock inverter for the fridge is located. At first I was thinking that fridges are generally located near the breaker/fuse panel inside the RV and that they may have screwed it to the floor right behind the breaker/fuse panel. That's where they have put the WFCO charger/converter on a couple of my RV trailer experiences. Its a good dead air space that they might use.

But then I thought. The longer 12vdc the distance from the battery to the inverter is killer. Unlike the AC line (which does have "some" voltage drop with distance) the DC line drops quickly and requires much larger wires from battery to inverter to prevent it. So "logically" they would not put the stock inverter near the fridge. They'd put it near the batteries. Then run romex, the "longer wires" to the fridge, because romex is much cheaper than larger 12vdc cabling. Soooo, all that said, I'd look for the stock converter up front. Maybe under the front bed somewhere.

In my two Keystone Cougar trailers experiences, the front wall of the pass through is not removable. The aluminum framing that supports the bed above it is screwed onto that front wall piece, which is itself only 1/8 inch luan wood. It even tucks down below the point where my floor butts up to it. I can't say if your Bullet is built the same way, but I'd put my money on the bet that it is.

Yes, the front wall of the pass through is not removable and I wish I could see behind there to run cables for the solar glad hook up. Speaking of solar, I tested out my 136watt Zamp panel I've been using on my previous trailer and it works! I hooked it up to the front tongue port (which is definitely not a Zamp port) and had to use a little elbow grease to get the SAE plugged in. But, I got a reading and let it charge the batteries for about a half hour. No sign of battery consumption while the residential fridge was running. :cool3:

I couldn't find where the fridge inverter is. I think it is next to the fridge behind a panel I can't get to easily. It's not in the bedroom nor is it up front. I did inspect the battery switch and it has 6 or 8 awg wire running into the floor from behind the water station box. I'm still thinking of tapping my auto switch over inverter to it. Just need to find a way to run a ground wire.

Anyway, we are getting ready for a trip so I'll get back to the inverter and roof-top solar thing when we get back. Onward...

[joninthout]

Quick update, the residential fridge on our 273BHS is a GE and only runs on 12volt power. No inverter needed.

[Kevin J]

Not a project I intend to take on any time soon but here are some photos of solar prep for a 2021 bullet 250bhs in the front pass-through.

The white cable is a loop.
The black and red end in the pass through.

Questions.

1. What are the 3 colour wires in the top left? (second photo. Purple, white, pink). I will check the keystone wiring.

2. Was there any consensus on how to run a cable through to the battery from the front pass through?

Thanks all.

[mikec557]

Not a project I intend to take on any time soon but here are some photos of solar prep for a 2021 bullet 250bhs in the front pass-through.

The white cable is a loop.
The black and red end in the pass through.

Questions.

1. What are the 3 colour wires in the top left? (second photo. Purple, white, pink). I will check the keystone wiring.

2. Was there any consensus on how to run a cable through to the battery from the front pass through?

Thanks all.

The purple, white and pink, I don't know. They were not visible in my 2020 26RBSWE.

My comment below refers to the 2ga wire I had to run for the inverter. The factory actually ran 8ga wire for the solar charge controller (SCC) from my pass-through, down through the front wall thickness, but failed to leave a loop of slack. So I had to abandon that wire set and design a way for the SCC to feed back to the batteries by using the 2ga. In your 2nd picture it looks like the factory didn't run any 8ga wire out to the battery. The result is about identical to my useless lack of slack. However you decide to run the larger cable (my 2ga) from your battery to inverter, you'll have to piggyback your SCC output on that route.

Cables from battery to pass-through.. I would not call it a consensus. More like a lesser-of-evils. The best avenue was running the pos and neg up through the inside of the front wall. That is, behind the front outer skin and behind the skin of the front wall of the pass-through. But that 1.5in thick wall was unpenetrable by me. I personally saw 3 rvs done that way, but it was done by the manufacturer during the trailer build. The only passage I could make into the pass through is the way I showed it in the pictures.

I would like to have penetrated the coroplast rather than the darco but there was too much blind cutting on my TT. And no way to easily peel the darco back, do the work, and replace it.

[Kevin J]

Thank you.
Very useful info.
I'll download the keystone wiring and post later about the 3 coulored wires

[IggyD]

Thank you for the very useful info everyone! I am very capable of doing wiring myself (I actually had to redo most of the end terminations on my new Bullet) and I wanted to add the inverter myself.

So it seems I need to run 2awg wire to the prep area. The 10awg wire is from the roof solar terminals, and the romex is the AC system tie in.

How is everyone mounting solar on the roof? Just drilling anywhere or are there framing or braces to drill into?

[mikec557]

Thank you for the very useful info everyone! I am very capable of doing wiring myself (I actually had to redo most of the end terminations on my new Bullet) and I wanted to add the inverter myself.

So it seems I need to run 2awg wire to the prep area. The 10awg wire is from the roof solar terminals, and the romex is the AC system tie in.

How is everyone mounting solar on the roof? Just drilling anywhere or are there framing or braces to drill into?

Scary as it sounds, I drill wherever the solar panel mounting feet land. My roof trusses were mostly 16in on center, but not in a good location for me. I believe my roof decking is 1/2in OSB. Some have said it's 3/8, but I think mine is thicker then that. Also, I think the screws that came with my feet were #10, but they might have been #12. Use 1in to 1-1/4in long, but your roof thickness may require a different length.

It's been awhile, but I thought Keystone ran 8awg wire down from the roof rather than the 10awg you mentioned. Regardless, I used whatever they provided. But because they screwed up my "prep" I had to provide wire from the loop location to the batteries (bus bar in my case) and for that I used 8awg.

[IggyD]

Scary as it sounds, I drill wherever the solar panel mounting feet land. My roof trusses were mostly 16in on center, but not in a good location for me. I believe my roof decking is 1/2in OSB. Some have said it's 3/8, but I think mine is thicker then that. Also, I think the screws that came with my feet were #10, but they might have been #12. Use 1in to 1-1/4in long, but your roof thickness may require a different length.

It's been awhile, but I thought Keystone ran 8awg wire down from the roof rather than the 10awg you mentioned. Regardless, I used whatever they provided. But because they screwed up my "prep" I had to provide wire from the loop location to the batteries (bus bar in my case) and for that I used 8awg.

My roof is curved so I’m not really sure what’s under there. At first I wanted to add some Merlin solar panels that are flat and self adhesive. I have used them in other projects and they are extremely efficient. I’m new to RV’s so I noticed the roof has a vinyl skin to it and I feared if I stuck something to it, the panel will fight back the curve of the roof and eventually lead to a tear in the vinyl.

The wire could very well be 8awg, my finger calipers tell me 10, but I’m probably thinking solar so expecting the extra thick shielding that is used for the outdoor wires.

[mikec557]

My roof is curved so I’m not really sure what’s under there...

Curved left to right, or front to back?

What make, model, and year is your RV?

[IggyD]

Curved left to right, or front to back?

What make, model, and year is your RV?

It curves left to right. 2021 Keystone Bullet 211BHSWE

[mikec557]

It curves left to right. 2021 Keystone Bullet 211BHSWE

I think you must have a roof vent, maybe over the bed, but definitely in the bathroom. Remove the beauty ring on the inside. Be sure to mark the front or back side. The ring is square and can be rotated in any of the four sides forward. But those 4 screws holding it up were placed in a helter skelter pattern. To easily screw it back in place, know which side goes where.

When it's removed, you can see into the "attic space". You may be able to discern both what your roof decking is made of and how thick it is.

My 2018 24RBSWE had a gentle curve left to right. Ordinary flat solar panel mounting feet easily accommodated the curve. My 2020 26RBSWE has a much more curved rooftop, like yours. I decided to use the mounting feet from AMSolar. They easily accommodate the curve, and make the panel tiltable, but boy they're expensive. See my pics at about post #39.

Let us know what feet you choose.

[IggyD]

I think you must have a roof vent, maybe over the bed, but definitely in the bathroom. Remove the beauty ring on the inside. Be sure to mark the front or back side. The ring is square and can be rotated in any of the four sides forward. But those 4 screws holding it up were placed in a helter skelter pattern. To easily screw it back in place, know which side goes where.

When it's removed, you can see into the "attic space". You may be able to discern both what your roof decking is made of and how thick it is.

My 2018 24RBSWE had a gentle curve left to right. Ordinary flat solar panel mounting feet easily accommodated the curve. My 2020 26RBSWE has a much more curved rooftop, like yours. I decided to use the mounting feet from AMSolar. They easily accommodate the curve, and make the panel tiltable, but boy they're expensive. See my pics at about post #39.

Let us know what feet you choose.

Those feet look great! I’ll look into those.

I have two vents, one in the middle next to my stove and one in the bathroom. I appreciate the tip! I wanted to run wires to a cell booster antenna and I think I can do that now if i have access to the “crawl space”.

[WJQ]

I haven't posted for a long time so this post does not follow the discussion but it should be helpful to some folks who want to install solar and run their AC loads off of an inverter. My previous posts describe what I have installed and it all works with the exception described below.

When I designed my solar system and determined my needed inverter size requirement, I looked at all the various electrical loads and decided I wanted to be able to run everything but the air conditioning. I also came up with operating time estimates for each load. I did this so I could determine if my solar gain would replace my amp-hour load on a daily basis. My math was "perfect" (Excel spreadsheet). However, what I did not know until my 2000 Watt inverter shut itself down, was that my microwave draws 3 to 4 times the nameplate power (1350 Watt) for a few milliseconds on startup. So, even though my inverter had a peak power of 4000 Watts, that was not enough. It shut itself down for protection.

So, for this camping year, I still use the Honda generator for the microwave. Next year, I will buy a smaller microwave and test it before the return period runs out. I am also interested in an "inverter microwave" but can't find out much about them. It is a new technology for residential microwaves, and the smaller ones I found so far do not use this newer microwave technology.

I also contemplated just setting the microwave power to a lower level, assuming that would drop the peak power below 4000 watts. It was then I discovered that my microwave power adjustment setting was defective! But, since my trailer was now well out of warranty, I could not get any satisfaction from the microwave manufacturer. I don't know if that would have worked or not. While I was becoming a microwave "expert," I learned that the reduced power setting on older technology microwaves does not reduce the power. The system simply reduces the duration that the power is applied to the food. So, during the cooking period, I expect the peak power is the same but only on for a portion of the time (seconds or milliseconds – I do not know). Thus, reducing the power setting level may not solve my peak power issue anyway.

As I understand it, the inverter technology actually reduces the power to the food versus the power cycling of older microwaves. Maybe next year, I will find a small inverter technology microwave that will operate on my inverter.

If anyone wants to discuss this further, send me a message, and I will schedule a time when we can talk.

If there are any real microwave experts out there, I would like to know if my level of understanding is correct.

[WJQ]

One of the posts asked about mounting. This post describes my approach. I have a large residential solar panel (280 Watt). Dimensions are about 38 in wide by around 66 inc long.

I used aluminum angle "iron" that I bought at Home Depot. I installed the aluminum angle the full length of the solar panel long side by mounting the angle to the panel with 10/32 threaded bolts about every 8 inches or so. I also drilled holes in the angle side that would be attached to the roof about every 8 inches starting about 1 inch from the ends. Then, I simply used #10 pan head metal screws to attach to the roof. My roof is wood over the metal frame. I could not find any information about where the internal metal structural members were located. So I judged that this level of overkill (lots of screws) would work. It has worked fine on a previous motorhome and on this trailer.

I used Dicor in all the right places to seal the holes.

[Jakhamer]

I just bought 2021 premier 23 RBPR when I looked at the Solar flex 400watt Solar kit it includes 2000 watt inverter with auto transfer switch. Check your wiring I’m from Michigan too cold for me to check mine out. Maybe April weather permitting.

[Jarhead]

Did you figure out what the Looped Romax went to?
I installed a Controller/Inverter with 4 Lithium Batteries then 4 Solar Panels using the wiring that comes with the 2020, Keystone Cougar 1/2 ton. And it works great when I plug in my 50amp line to a 50/30amp receptacle to my inverter.

I split the Looped romax wire and put on 2-15amp plugs and connected to my converter and it runs everything, However it eats up battery power even when I don't have anything running but a plugged in fan, which makes no sense.
I attached pics. Any suggestion on this Romax wire? I cannot find a wire diagram anywhere to figure this out.

[jxnbbl]

Does that inverter have a transfer switch built into it???


It looks like a GoPower 12v 3000 inverter and looking at the specs, I don't see a transfer switch. That is a problem since unless you "fool with the breakers" you a back feeding the electrical panel. Is that what you want?


In other words one of those plugs goes directly to the electrical panel and one of them goes to 4-5 outlets in your trailer that are "solar ready". I assume that internally in your hard wiring both are energized by the inverter?

[jxnbbl]

My other comment is what gauge wire did you use from the batteries and for the jumpers on the batteries. For this inverter (assuming 3000W) they are suppose to be something like 4/0 with a 400A fuse.

[mikec557]

Did you figure out what the Looped Romax went to?

The purpose of the romex loop is to provide a means for the owner to install an inverter with pass-through, aka bypass, to power the 3-5 electrical outlets the factory wired to the romex loop.

Your installation is not its intended use. But lots of people have done "creative" things with the loop.

[jasin1]

Did you figure out what the Looped Romax went to?
I installed a Controller/Inverter with 4 Lithium Batteries then 4 Solar Panels using the wiring that comes with the 2020, Keystone Cougar 1/2 ton. And it works great when I plug in my 50amp line to a 50/30amp receptacle to my inverter.

I split the Looped romax wire and put on 2-15amp plugs and connected to my converter and it runs everything, However it eats up battery power even when I don't have anything running but a plugged in fan, which makes no sense.
I attached pics. Any suggestion on this Romax wire? I cannot find a wire diagram anywhere to figure this out.

here is the schematic from post #79….the romex wire you see is running from the solar 15 amp breaker in the wfco breaker panel up to the pass through….it then “loops” back to the three or more ( depending on year and model ) designated solar receptacles in the trailer (one’s that are powered by the inverter after it’s installed)

there is nothing mysterious or technical about this particular circuit…EXCEPT it is an extra long wire run that gives you slack to cut the wire at the location of the inverter and have enough to connect both ends without having to splice usually.

it’s designed for a pass through inverter with a built in transfer switch …the go power one you have may not have a built in transfer switch as they do sell a separate transfer switch on their website.

in the picture here you can see the schematic…the yellow line represents the romex loop wire in your pass thru…the blue is where you cut it …the red is showing both ends of ONE inverter.

with all due respect sir i would redo what you have there and secure the wires better…it looks like a insurance claim waiting to happen…start over and take a look at some of the pictures of installs. it’s easier to wire a inverter with built in transfer switch

[Kevin J]

Was looking at this as a solution to the solar ready.

https://www.amazon.com/PowMr-Inverter-220-230VAC-Controller-Generator/dp/B09NSFBYPP?th=1

It would require a transformer (230V only) and I am not sure how that would then tie in to the Romex loop with a transfer switch. But it would kind of defeat the purpose of the all-in-one when you add the other items needed.

Even better would be to run one line to connect/power the main circuit board & another to the shore power.

My 2021 keystone has the romex loop and the black and red wire (which ends in the front bay and does not run through to the battery). Pictures in an earlier post on this thread.

[Kevin J]

Does an all-in one mppt/inverter hybrid with pass-through auto switch exist?

[Kevin J]

here is a 3000W 120V version

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B08R3MSXTG/ref=as_li_ss_tl?SubscriptionId=AKIAJO7E5OLQ67NVPFZ A&ascsubtag=425255009-2-90027448.1654437861&tag=brg_ana_bing_paid-20&th=1

Would it be possible to run a line from shore power to "AC in" and "AC out" to the main circuit board to power the whole trailer?
Shore power line already goes to the main circuit box. So you need 1 route for two wires from circuit box to front pass through. One for "AC in" and one for "AC out".
Maybe cut the romex, attach a fish line to the romex end running to the fuse box and try and pull it though? You would need to pull the romex back through as well as the two new AC power lines.
Then you just need to hook up the solar (red and black wire provided) and batteries.(not provided in pass through)

It would be a great solution if possible. (wire gauge/distance?)

[JRTJH]

Just a reminder:

That "loop" is 14 ga ROMEX rated at 15 amps. The linked "solar power center" in post #123 is rated at 25 amps output. Installing that type if "power center" to the existing trailer wiring is over-extending the trailer OEM wiring and potentially setting up a "burn it down scenario"....

NEVER connect an inverter rated greater than 15 amps (output) to 14 ga ROMEX..... You might hope that the circuit breakers will trip before the wire overheats, but there's a reason for the 15 amp rating, even when installed with a properly sized circuit breaker.....

[Kevin J]

Hi there.
Always welcome your posts.

So solution in post #123 isn't possible.

I would welcome your view whether solution above in post #125 is feasible?
Specs say AC output 25A 8AWG.
What would shore power AC in need?

[flybouy]

What you have done there is down right dangerous and could be deadly. By "backfeeding" the panel you have energized the shore power plug. If anyone, say an inquisitive child, should touch ti they would get electrocuted. By backfeeding the panel the converter is trying to charge the battery while the inverter I'd draining the battery. This will discharge the batteries quickly.

[Kevin J]

Maybe this is an even easier solution?

Don't mount the inverter mppt hybrid in the pass through at all.
Mount it close to the existing WFCO converter instead.
Advantages, all the wires you need apart from the solar zamp wires are readily accessible.

Use the shore wire connected to the existing WFCO converter to the "AC in" of the new hybrid.
Use the battery wire connected to the WFCO to connect to the battery of the new hybrid. No need to find a way to the batteries from the front pass-thru.
Attach "AC out" from the new hybrid to the fuse box. I have not checked a wire diagram to see how this would be done.
Which just leaves you to find a way to route an 8AWG wire from the new hybrid to the front pass-thru to connect to the existing 8AWG that connects to the rooftop zamp gland.

Hmmm. Workable?

[jasin1]

i don’t understand why you would want to reinvent the wheel…the existing design parameters are simple and almost bulletproof…all of these “popular mechanics” workarounds are more complicated,unreliable and dangerous to use…god forbid if you sell the trailer and the scientist that designed it is no longer around to explain its operation and quirks…

plumbing and electric are not trades to get creative with…there are simple rules and procedures with both

the housing market is filled with old homes where amateur hobby “electricians” wire some convoluted disaster that just works when everything is perfectly aligned but will burn the house down if someone isn’t aware of the “procedure”

[jxnbbl]

Maybe this is an even easier solution?

Don't mount the inverter mppt hybrid in the pass through at all.
Mount it close to the existing WFCO converter instead.
Advantages, all the wires you need apart from the solar zamp wires are readily accessible.

Use the shore wire connected to the existing WFCO converter to the "AC in" of the new hybrid.
Use the battery wire connected to the WFCO to connect to the battery of the new hybrid. No need to find a way to the batteries from the front pass-thru.
Attach "AC out" from the new hybrid to the fuse box. I have not checked a wire diagram to see how this would be done.
Which just leaves you to find a way to route an 8AWG wire from the new hybrid to the front pass-thru to connect to the existing 8AWG that connects to the rooftop zamp gland.

Hmmm. Workable?


+1 on the last couple of replies. Where the current installation (even when corrected) requires different wiring on the AC side of the fence to it is the same for the DC side.



A true replacement would require a different inverter and/or a different configuration. The real difficult part of this (and potentially costly) is that for a 3000W inverter you need 4/0 battery cables to the inverter. Depending on the distance maybe even larger. I just built a system with 2/0 cabling and it isn't the easiest thing to deal with and I borrowed a special crimper from an electrician friend to make my cables.

[mikec557]

Jarhead, just a thought here. Try to draw a wiring diagram of 1) your most desired electrical setup (I'd like to power every outlet in the entire rv), and 2) a more realistic goal (which is what that factory pre-wire was designed to be).

If you can draw it, others can give you advice. Without a drawing your goal and the offered advice will start to look like word-salad.

Just a thought...

[Jarhead]

Does that inverter have a transfer switch built into it???


It looks like a GoPower 12v 3000 inverter and looking at the specs, I don't see a transfer switch. That is a problem since unless you "fool with the breakers" you a back feeding the electrical panel. Is that what you want?

In other words one of those plugs goes directly to the electrical panel and one of them goes to 4-5 outlets in your trailer that are "solar ready". I assume that internally in your hard wiring both are energized by the inverter?

Correct and I finally found a schematic that shows the Romax wire hook up.
1 side plugged in works but need to figure out which side goes to my breaker and wire it to the inverter. Plan to work on it this week.

I have been running everything from connecting my 50amp line to the inverter.
Not sure what the transfer switch will do that the Controller does not do. ??

[Jarhead]

Per the attached schematic. The PrepWiring will run everything I need while traveling down the road. Including the frig outside that holds my beer!! :cool:

Once we stop/setup I will run the main 50amp line to my inverter and it runs everything in the 5thWheel.

I have a friend that is much better at this than me and is coming over to hardwire vice the electrical plugs I am using.

[fchampneys]

Also trying to learn about how to install a system on my 2020 34TSB with solar prep package
Yes, me too. I have a 2020 Model 430 Fuzion. The only thing "solar ready" was the fact that my 5th wheel has a roof mounted docking port with red & black stranded wires leading into the basement and wrapped in a coil. Nothing else. So I have installed a 30A controller and 4 100W panels. It would be lovely to know how to wire in an inverter to power up my AC outlets. However, Keystone declines to provide me with a schematic or any information other than to tell me to take my trailer to the dealer to get it done. I don't think Keystone has a clue how my electrical system was put together. Talk about a mystery. They must not depend on repeat customers.

[mikec557]

Yes, me too. I have a 2020 Model 430 Fuzion. The only thing "solar ready" was the fact that my 5th wheel has a roof mounted docking port with red & black stranded wires leading into the basement and wrapped in a coil. Nothing else. So I have installed a 30A controller and 4 100W panels. It would be lovely to know how to wire in an inverter to power up my AC outlets. However, Keystone declines to provide me with a schematic or any information other than to tell me to take my trailer to the dealer to get it done. I don't think Keystone has a clue how my electrical system was put together. Talk about a mystery. They must not depend on repeat customers.

Here you go. But I don't know if it will help. The Keystone concept is that (at least on the 2020 models) the owner/dealer will provide the right gauge wire from the batteries to the inverter, based on the wattage size of the inverter. The biggest difficulty I had was bringing (2ga in my case) wire from outside the pass-through to inside the pass-through where I mounted a Xantrex 1000 watt inverter. Drilling holes through the Styrofoam sandwich floor is easy, making it 100% waterproof, not so easy. Two things about the drawing, ignore the wire gauge size for the inverter. Use a wire rated for the inverter you install. And, ignore the yellow high-lighting. That's just the way I got it.

[Kevin J]

My 2021 bullet has the solar wiring from the ZAMP roof gland to the pass-thru and the ROMEX loop.
But no wiring to the battery, which isn't a big deal I suppose if you intend to install an inverter (you would need to run 2Ga wire anyway to the battery from the inverter.)

My use means I probably won't go solar + inverter any time soon. With young kids we generally need a full hookup anyway.(water limiting more than battery, as we have a Generator if needed).

However I did spend a lot of time thinking how it would be done if I decided to go ahead. Given the battery location on the tongue, it is necessary to install the inverter in the pass-thru (due to 2Ga wire needed to connect to battery). However rather than cut the ROMEX loop, I think it would be better to run 8Ga wire from the inverter directly to the DC fuse box AC in so that you power the whole trailer rather than just the 3 outlets.

You could cut the romex loop and use the end that connects to the DC fuse box to pull through the new 8Ga wire that will run from inverter to fuse box.(+ a guide line so that you could reconnect the ROMEX and reconnect the loop where you cut it. A lot better solution for not a lot more effort (although I don't know how hard it will be to pull through the romex wiring).

I would probably buy a Victron multiplus and run an additional SHORE supply from the fuse box(where SHORE power currently ends) to the multi-plus, and the 8Ga wire from the multi-plus back to the fuse box. The solar charger, bus bars, fuse, shutoffs etc all in the pull through.

All that said, if someone really just needed to keep their batteries topped up, a 300W solar suitcase connected to the sidewall port and a generator is the most cost effective, least hassle and still keeps your pass through clear.

https://www.amazon.com/DOKIO-Portable-Solar-160M-300M-Bracket/dp/B07JPH4PHG/ref=sr_1_2_sspa?crid=3LOLB1JY2U8ZR&keywords=300W+solar+suitcase&qid=1671032997&sprefix=300w+solar+suitcase%2Caps%2C165&sr=8-2-spons&psc=1&spLa=ZW5jcnlwdGVkUXVhbGlmaWVyPUExWVpWUlVBUkNQOE5JJ mVuY3J5cHRlZElkPUEwMDk2MzY1MlRXR0g3TktTVkYyTCZlbmN yeXB0ZWRBZElkPUEwMzc1NzI5MllSMTFSNDJBOVk4OSZ3aWRnZ XROYW1lPXNwX2F0ZiZhY3Rpb249Y2xpY2tSZWRpcmVjdCZkb05 vdExvZ0NsaWNrPXRydWU=

[jxnbbl]

Kevin,

Just some notes/comments on the entry since I completed an inverter installation on a 2021 Bullet. Which hits on both of the significant points. The first is just a highlighting a "it depends".

1. The wiring diagram posted depicts a certain inverter that has a recommended 2ga wiring from the battery to the inverter. There is a note on that diagram somewhere that will change the gauge of the wire depending on the wattage of the inverter. In my case, a 2000 inverter from the same xantrex company needs 00 gauge! In this case you want welding wire as it is more flexible, but more expensive.

2. In wiring back to the panel, having pulled apart the underbelly to do what I needed it would be impossible on my trailer to use the existing romex to pull another gauge through. My comment is that the gauge really is dictated by the output of the inverter with will most likely be 20A. Thus 12ga would suffice. Also, in my case, I reused both "sides" of the existing 14ga romex to power two outlet circuits on either side of the trailer. Since it was 14 instead of 12 ga (I know some trailers are coming with 12/yellow romex) I put in a marine power center with the 20 A inverter output being distributed/protected by 2 15A breakers.



Jay

[Kevin J]

Great info Jay thanks.

I have used the welding wire in the past as well to install an internal ePO.

I was doubtful it would pull through, shame.
If I ever get around to the job, I am not looking forward to routing the wires from the inverter to the battery, nor the wire from the inverter to the fuse box. It seems the way you suggest (through the floor and along the underbelly) is most practical. My underbelly is covered by the coroplast(?) so I have no idea what lurks underneath.