Need Tow Vehicle Advise

[wincrasher]

I'm seriously looking at buying a travel trailer and a pickup truck.

Right now I'm interested in about a 30'-32' Passport or Outback. Not a 5th wheel.

I'd be using this rig for family trips, but also in my work. I often go to projects for 1-2 years at a time, and am tired of renting apartments.

I've been looking at F150 and Silverado crew cabs with a V8. Both these trucks are rated 9-10,000 pounds towing. Trailer weights range from 5500 lbs for the passport and up to 7500 lbs for the Outback. I'm assuming the Outback is just more ruggedly built as similar floorplans to the Passport are about 1000 to 1500 heavier.

So do you guys think a light duty pickup would be OK to tow? Are these ratings real?

[SteveC7010]

So do you guys think a light duty pickup would be OK to tow? Are these ratings real?

There are several other discussions on pretty much the same issue going on in the Towing and Tow Vehicles section.

http://www.keystonerv.org/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=63

I encourage you to read them for detailed discussion and reasoning.

My short answer is: If the GVWR of the trailer is 7,800# or more, you need to be looking at an F250 or equivalent.

[Kunkler]

I would look at the 250 or 2500 for sure. you can get a bigger motor in them or stay with the same that is in the half tons. :thumbsup:

[wincrasher]

I'm thinking I'd be willing to go down in trailer before I'd go up in truck. Luckily, or smartly:cool: I've bought neither yet.

I want to use this truck as a daily driver. The towing would be occasional at best - perhaps 4 or 5 trips a year at 500 miles each way.

If I went with the Passport, or a smaller Outback - at about 5500 lbs, 600lbs tongue, and probably 1000 lbs of camping gear/stuff, would a F150 supercrew do it comfortably and safely?

The forums in the link seem more geared towards full-timers in 5th wheels. I can see doing that buying a gigantic diesel or HD truck for that.

[hankpage]

If you are convinced that you only want a ½ ton truck be sure to get a long wheel base. They usually tow much better. JM2¢, Hank

[jq1031]

I'm thinking I'd be willing to go down in trailer before I'd go up in truck. Luckily, or smartly:cool: I've bought neither yet.

I want to use this truck as a daily driver. The towing would be occasional at best - perhaps 4 or 5 trips a year at 500 miles each way.

If I went with the Passport, or a smaller Outback - at about 5500 lbs, 600lbs tongue, and probably 1000 lbs of camping gear/stuff, would a F150 supercrew do it comfortably and safely?

The forums in the link seem more geared towards full-timers in 5th wheels. I can see doing that buying a gigantic diesel or HD truck for that.

Fortunately you have not made the purchase yet, as many on this forum have purchased either or both & then start looking for ways to correct a not so good towing situation. Most 1/2 ton trucks have plenty of power for pulling but after that is when the problems arrise. If your not going to consider a 3/4 ton truck then look into the Hensley Hitch. An trailer over 30ft being pulled by a 1/2 ton TV is like the tail wagging the dog & sway will be an issue, a serious issue!

[Kunkler]

I also have noticed that it is geared twards full time campers. If your going to go around 500 mlies each way i would still say a 3/4 ton. If not then i would look at a smaller trailer if its jus your self. Key is to be safe no reason to push the limit if you dont have to....

[forest376]

Just upgraded my current truck. I purchased a 2011 Silverado 1500, 5.3L, 2WD last March. At the time, I did not even own a 5ver. In May this year, we purchased an x-lite 5ver, dry weight 6,800. I knew my Silverado was rated to pull around 9,600. A couple of weeks ago, we went to the North Georgia mountains. I would have to say, the Silverado pulled without any problems. However, there was one time the truck started to spin the rear tires, getting up a gravel road. After getting back home, I told my DW, I would have piece of mind upgrading the Silverado to the 2500hd - 4WD, 4.10 axle. This way, I knew we could go anywhere we wanted. I have recently retired and my wife will be retired the end of this year, we hope to do some more traveling. I would purchase an F250 or Chevy 2500. BTW - this month is Chevy Truck month - lots of great deals. Good luck!

[mhs4771]

We pulled a 24 foot Prowler TT for 15 years with a Heavy Duty 1/2 ton 4x4. Never had any grades we couldn't make, some we rather slow, like in second gear, but there were plenty of white knukle moments when we needed to stop in a hurry. There is a lot more to towing than just the power to pull the rig. You need to be able to stop it toooooo. Yor're talking about rigs that will out weigh the TT by a fair amount. As mentioned you can get a 3/4 ton with pretty much the same engine as the 1/2, but you'll be getting a heavier truck with bigger and better brakes and more designed to pull larger rigs. When we upgraded we skipped the 3/4 ton option and went straight to a 1 ton Diesel Dually, but we're now towing 14,100 lbs of 5th wheel.

[wincrasher]

I definately doing some serious shopping this weekend.

I think I'm comfortable with a trailer in the 5500 to 6000 lbs range to pull this a 1/2 ton truck.

If I like the 7500 lbs trailer too much, then it looks like a 3/4 ton.

My plans for the spring include getting a new boat too - one I've been thinking about comes in around 5400 lbs too. So 4x4 is also a good idea for those slick ramp.

[hankaye]

wincrasher, Howdy;

Noticed where you are located, Hill Country, when mhs4771 wrote;

"As mentioned you can get a 3/4 ton with pretty much the same engine as the 1/2, but you'll be getting a heavier truck with bigger and better brakes and more designed to pull larger rigs."

The implied and better able to STOP a larger rig also... is also something to consider.
Something you might ponder heavily especialy if you plan on going thru "The Gorge" with any regularity or even occasionally, or up an down Black Mountain.....

Only suggesting a few thing to ponder... a golf cart can tow these things ... once they get rolling ... but can it STOP one ????

hankaye

[SteveC7010]

I think I'm comfortable with a trailer in the 5500 to 6000 lbs range to pull this a 1/2 ton truck.

If I like the 7500 lbs trailer too much, then it looks like a 3/4 ton.

Remember those numbers should be GVWR, not the dry weight. Lately, it seems that some RV dealers are talking just dry weight and ignoring anything you might put into a TT or TV, including the people.

One other thought... While "1/2 ton" pickups are rated to pull some large weights these days, the manufacturers have not increased the actual payload of the trucks that much. I just posted this a few days ago in response to someone else's inquiry: "I just looked up Chevy's rating for a 1500 ton long bed. They rate the payload at 1,600#. For a 2500, the payload jumps to 3,400#." And the 3500 is rated over 4,500#.

Now, what does this have to do with TT's as opposed to fivers? Well, a lot, actually. Generally speaking, the longer and heavier TT's (GVWR) have heavy tongue weights. My old Sunline (5,500# GVWR) had a tongue weight over 800#. It is not at all unusual to see tongue weights well over 1,000 pounds.

So, back to the 1/2 ton trucks with load ratings of 1,600#. Your weight distributing hitch system doesn't remove weight, it just shifts it forward so that the front axle is carrying some of the added load and some of the tongue weight is pushed back to the TT axles. But, that 1,000+ pounds of tongue weight is still there and a bunch of it is on the TV's front and rear axles.

Add in a couple of adults, some extra camping gear in the bed of the truck, and maybe the family dog and you are right up at that 1,600# max payload. Even though the truck might be rated to pull much more than the trailer weighs, the actual weight load capacity of the truck is reached or exceeded.

3/4 and 1 ton trucks have much beefier suspensions, axles, wheels, tires, and frames. This is what earns them the larger payload ratings.

With so many TT's on the market with 7,800# GVWR ratings or higher, it is pretty easy to see why so many of us have moved to the larger capacity pickups.

[wincrasher]

Gave some more thought to some of the things posted here.

You would think that if a truck was rated to tow 10k lbs, then the brakes, frame, etc, would all be sized to match that rating.

But I went online and started looking at trucks again. I was prepared to spend almost $50k on a fully optioned F-150 supercrew with the 5.0L V8. It gets about 19 mpg in 4x4 trim.

I looked at the Silverado 2500 crew 4x4 with LTZ and basically all the options including the Duramax and Allison - I can get that for $54k right now. Not sure it gets much less mpg unloaded than the ford. It also doesn't seem as gigantic as the F250.

So instead of playing the numbers came to buy just enough truck, think I'm just going to get the big truck and not worry about it.

[jq1031]

Remember those numbers should be GVWR, not the dry weight. Lately, it seems that some RV dealers are talking just dry weight and ignoring anything you might put into a TT or TV, including the people.

One other thought... While "1/2 ton" pickups are rated to pull some large weights these days, the manufacturers have not increased the actual payload of the trucks that much. I just posted this a few days ago in response to someone else's inquiry: "I just looked up Chevy's rating for a 1500 ton long bed. They rate the payload at 1,600#. For a 2500, the payload jumps to 3,400#." And the 3500 is rated over 4,500#.

Now, what does this have to do with TT's as opposed to fivers? Well, a lot, actually. Generally speaking, the longer and heavier TT's (GVWR) have heavy tongue weights. My old Sunline (5,500# GVWR) had a tongue weight over 800#. It is not at all unusual to see tongue weights well over 1,000 pounds.

So, back to the 1/2 ton trucks with load ratings of 1,600#. Your weight distributing hitch system doesn't remove weight, it just shifts it forward so that the front axle is carrying some of the added load and some of the tongue weight is pushed back to the TT axles. But, that 1,000+ pounds of tongue weight is still there and a bunch of it is on the TV's front and rear axles.

Add in a couple of adults, some extra camping gear in the bed of the truck, and maybe the family dog and you are right up at that 1,600# max payload. Even though the truck might be rated to pull much more than the trailer weighs, the actual weight load capacity of the truck is reached or exceeded.

3/4 and 1 ton trucks have much beefier suspensions, axles, wheels, tires, and frames. This is what earns them the larger payload ratings.

With so many TT's on the market with 7,800# GVWR ratings or higher, it is pretty easy to see why so many of us have moved to the larger capacity pickups.

You statement pretty much says it all, well done! Half ton trucks are not meant to pull 30ft plus trailers.

[wincrasher]

I never considered what the weight distributing hitch would do - you potentially could overload your trailer axles as well?

Some of these trailers I've been looking at don't have much payload capacity.

One I like is 7500 lbs, 800 lbs tongue, but only 1500 lbs carrying capacity. I'm assuming it's primarily the axle loading, not necessarily the frame of the trailer.
1500 doesn't seem like much to work with - and could actually be less if you use a WD hitch.

Another newbie question - is a WD hitch and an anti sway hitch the same thing? I assume that even with the HD truck, I'll need to get something for such a large trailer.

[SteveC7010]

I never considered what the weight distributing hitch would do - you potentially could overload your trailer axles as well?

Yes, it is possible, but typically the combined axle rating (assuming tandems) is a bit higher than the GVWR.

Some of these trailers I've been looking at don't have much payload capacity. One I like is 7500 lbs, 800 lbs tongue, but only 1500 lbs carrying capacity. I'm assuming it's primarily the axle loading, not necessarily the frame of the trailer. 1500 doesn't seem like much to work with - and could actually be less if you use a WD hitch.

The GVWR and payload of a TT is rated on a combination of things. The axles pretty much set the highest possible number, and then frame construction and tongue weight come into play.

Another newbie question - is a WD hitch and an anti sway hitch the same thing? I assume that even with the HD truck, I'll need to get something for such a large trailer.

Weight Distribution deals with tongue weight and when properly set, levels out both the trailer and tow vehicle. It keeps the proportion of weight on the front and rear axles pretty much the same even though the weight is greater. WD is the two arms on the hitch system, much like the handles of a wheel barrow. Lift up on the arms, and the weight is fulcrumed forward to the front axles of the TV and back to the axles of the TT.

One of the biggest dangers that WD solves is the potential for the front axles of the TV to unload to the point where steering control is affected.

Sway control prevents the trailer from wagging, much like the tail of a dog. When it gets going fast enough and strong enough, the whole dog begins move left and right. Left uncontrolled, sway can easily result in a catastrophic event like the rig jack-knifing or the trailer flipping.

They are separate issues, but generally with the heavier trailers, they are both solved with products like Reese's Dual-Cam and similar which utilize the tongue weight to solve sway issues while also distributing the tongue weight properly. The Hensley Arrow is a different solution to sway and highly effective.

Yes, even with a 3/4 or 1 ton truck, weight distribution and sway control are both essential.

[jq1031]

I never considered what the weight distributing hitch would do - you potentially could overload your trailer axles as well?

Some of these trailers I've been looking at don't have much payload capacity.

One I like is 7500 lbs, 800 lbs tongue, but only 1500 lbs carrying capacity. I'm assuming it's primarily the axle loading, not necessarily the frame of the trailer.
1500 doesn't seem like much to work with - and could actually be less if you use a WD hitch.

Another newbie question - is a WD hitch and an anti sway hitch the same thing? I assume that even with the HD truck, I'll need to get something for such a large trailer.

The stats on my TT, 2011 Laredo 297RL are 6375 dry weight + 1825 for people & stuff for a gross weight of 8200 lbs. As you can see my truck is a 3/4 ton. My WD hitch changes non of that just distributes the weight to all 4 axles on the TT & TV. Without that WD hitch the tongue weight would cause the front of the TT & back of the TV to sag. Sway is controlled on my set up by two sway or friction bars that attach both to the truck hitch head & trailer A frame. So far this year I've traveled over 6500 miles (no I'm not a full timer) without a problem or near mishap & I believe that is because my truck & trailer are a good match. The trailer you refer to above has a higher gross weight than mine & you will be pulling it with a lighter truck. My experience tells me that is a miss match. I'm definatelly NOT trying to be sarcastic but you refer to yourself as a newbee looking for advise & I believe alot of the advise you have received here is the correct advise. As has been stated before, either reduce the size of the TT or up the size of the truck for the safety of yourself & others.......

[wincrasher]

Am I missing something? In one of my earlier posts, I said I'm looking at the Silverado HD2500 equipped like your Denali. Are you saying this is still too light a truck for a 7500 lb trailer?

[SteveC7010]

Am I missing something? In one of my earlier posts, I said I'm looking at the Silverado HD2500 equipped like your Denali. Are you saying this is still too light a truck for a 7500 lb trailer?

Not me... :) I think that HD2500 is just about perfect for a trailer in that weight class.

[mhs4771]

If you go with the Silverado I think you will be very pleased. The Duramax/Allison combo works well together and running solo you should be easily in the 19 to 20 mpg. My 1 Ton Dually will get 18 to 19 cruising at 70 solo and 10 to 11 pulling 14,000 lbs.

[jq1031]

Am I missing something? In one of my earlier posts, I said I'm looking at the Silverado HD2500 equipped like your Denali. Are you saying this is still too light a truck for a 7500 lb trailer?

SORRY, I missed that post, I thought you were sticking with the half ton no matter what. Sometime I read to fast, again, sorry. I get a little upset with people pulling with the WRONG equiptment as I could be the guy behind you when the "wheels come off" & I crash also. I've been RVing for most of my life (off & on) & my feeling is if you're not willing to do it wright, don't do it!

[dmatt]

If you want to stay with a 1/2 ton, I suggest you look at the Ford F-150 with the EcoBoost. Go over to the Ford truck forum, they have a whole section dedicated tp the 3.5L EcoBoost: http://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/forum262/

With the HD payload package, it's rated to pull 11,300bs, yet they're seeing real world MPG 23-25 highway when not towing

After researching, this is what I'm getting once we decide what TT to get.

[wincrasher]

I've heard stories of people getting VERY poor mileage towing with the turbocharged V6. I would think that with any load at all, you'd be running high boost to keep it all moving.

Alas, I opted for a big-boy truck. Bought a Silverado 2500 with the Duramax Diesel and Allison transmission. It wasn't that much more expensive and it's a lot more capable than a 1/2 ton truck.

[jq1031]

Enjoy your new Silverado, you won't be sorry, in fact you well be VERY HAPPY!

[therink]

Remember those numbers should be GVWR, not the dry weight. Lately, it seems that some RV dealers are talking just dry weight and ignoring anything you might put into a TT or TV, including the people.

One other thought... While "1/2 ton" pickups are rated to pull some large weights these days, the manufacturers have not increased the actual payload of the trucks that much. I just posted this a few days ago in response to someone else's inquiry: "I just looked up Chevy's rating for a 1500 ton long bed. They rate the payload at 1,600#. For a 2500, the payload jumps to 3,400#." And the 3500 is rated over 4,500#.

Now, what does this have to do with TT's as opposed to fivers? Well, a lot, actually. Generally speaking, the longer and heavier TT's (GVWR) have heavy tongue weights. My old Sunline (5,500# GVWR) had a tongue weight over 800#. It is not at all unusual to see tongue weights well over 1,000 pounds.

So, back to the 1/2 ton trucks with load ratings of 1,600#. Your weight distributing hitch system doesn't remove weight, it just shifts it forward so that the front axle is carrying some of the added load and some of the tongue weight is pushed back to the TT axles. But, that 1,000+ pounds of tongue weight is still there and a bunch of it is on the TV's front and rear axles.

Add in a couple of adults, some extra camping gear in the bed of the truck, and maybe the family dog and you are right up at that 1,600# max payload. Even though the truck might be rated to pull much more than the trailer weighs, the actual weight load capacity of the truck is reached or exceeded.

3/4 and 1 ton trucks have much beefier suspensions, axles, wheels, tires, and frames. This is what earns them the larger payload ratings.

With so many TT's on the market with 7,800# GVWR ratings or higher, it is pretty easy to see why so many of us have moved to the larger capacity pickups.

Amen. Thanks you saved me a bunch of typing.
Steve

[therink]

Am I missing something? In one of my earlier posts, I said I'm looking at the Silverado HD2500 equipped like your Denali. Are you saying this is still too light a truck for a 7500 lb trailer?

One tidbit, I would strongly recommend considering the 4:10 axle on the 2500 with 6.0 gas.

[Festus2]

Wincrasher, the original poster of this thread, asked about towing a 30-32 ft Passport or Outback with a light duty PU truck. He has subsequently purchased a "big boy" (wincrasher's words) truck ---- a Silverado 2500 Duramax diesel with the help of your input.
Thank you to all of the members who contributed their advice and suggestions to wincrasher which ultimately enabled him to make a more informed and knowledgeable decision.
This thread had 26 replies and 556 views.

This thread is now closed. :wave: