Towing with Suburban

[DKW]

I would like some advice on my possible set up.

I have a:
2017 Suburban 1500 4x4 with the Max trailer package
Axle ratio 3.42
curb weight 6000 lbs.
GVW 7500 lbs.
GCWR 14,000 lbs.
anything else you want to know?


I want to haul: (couple options but others are lower/smaller than below)
28 foot TT
curb weight 5210 lbs.
GVWR 6710 lbs.
anything else you want to know?

I'm 15% under my trailer weight rating so I "think" that is good but I also would be 210 lbs. OVER the GCWR if I had a fully loaded TV & TT. How often does that happen? thoughts on set up?

"I DON'T KNOW WHAT I DON'T KNOW"

DKW

[wiredgeorge]

There is a yellow stick inside your driver's door frame; it mentions payload for your vehicle. That is kind of critical; you will also want to let folks know what tires are on your vehicle; that is the load rating. They are probably passenger car tires and not up to the task. Last, the smart folks here will tell you that the manufacturer's specs for the trailer are not really on the mark. Good luck!

[flybouy]

I'm too tired to type again so see my post #14 here... https://www.keystoneforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=42245

[DKW]

There is a yellow stick inside your driver's door frame; it mentions payload for your vehicle. That is kind of critical; you will also want to let folks know what tires are on your vehicle; that is the load rating. They are probably passenger car tires and not up to the task. Last, the smart folks here will tell you that the manufacturer's specs for the trailer are not really on the mark. Good luck!

Payload is 1501 lbs. (per sticker)
Tires P285 /45R22
Bridgestone dueler h/l Alenza plus

[DKW]

I'm too tired to type again so see my post #14 here... https://www.keystoneforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=42245

I read your post...I get it. I know I can pull this weight but I'm wondering about hauling it.

So assuming I get the T.V. weighed and its "with in spec" or verified "out of spec" how to I know I'm getting reliable weights on the trailers?

[flybouy]

Payload is 1501 lbs. (per sticker)
Tires P285 /45R22
Bridgestone dueler h/l Alenza plus

With a payload of 1,501 lbs. you would have to subtract the weight of the passengers (including pets), the weight of the hitch coupler and sway bars, any other cargo you put in that Suburban that wasn't in it when the factory built it such as tools, floor mats, groceries, ice chest, kids car seats and toys, all the stuff in the center console and glove box, etc., etc. What you have leftover after all that is your available payload for the trailer tongue.

Suburbans make great people haulers but not good trailer haulers as they run out of payload quickly.

[German Shepherd Guy]

I too use a Suburban. I would change out those tires on the vehicle for the best/ heaviest duty truck tires that you can afford. I use 10 ply rated Coopers. There will be others that do know but I am not sure about the rims, I believe you will have to change them out too, in order to mount a truck tire.
Good luck.

[flybouy]

I read your post...I get it. I know I can pull this weight but I'm wondering about hauling it.

So assuming I get the T.V. weighed and its "with in spec" or verified "out of spec" how to I know I'm getting reliable weights on the trailers?

Ignore any published weights on the trailer other than the max. You will never see the empty weight. So in your first post with a GVWR 6710 lbs take about 13% of that weight or ~872 lbs. tongue weight. So going in the opposite direction take your 1,501 lb. capacity, remove 872 lbs for the tongue leaves 629 lbs. Now the weight distributing hitch and bars are going to be at least 100 lbs. so now you have 529 lbs. of load capacity to place inside that 7 passenger Suburban. Goes quick doesn't it?

You have 2 choices as I see it. Get a real truck or choose a much, much smaller/lighter trailer. Years ago GMC made a 3500 Suburban that was much better suited to towing. I think the "EPA fuel milage standars" killed it along with Ford's Excursion.

[travelin texans]

Simple answer;
Too much trailer, not enough tow vehicle with passenger car tires on it.
Sorry!

[gearhead]

Right off the bat I would say no.
But wait there's more...
I don't know where Blaine is. Middle of pancake flat Kansas or on top of a mountain in Idaho. If you're going to be towing in hills and mountains, no. If short trips on level ground, maybe, with upgraded tires, etc.
3.42 rear end don't help.
Bottom line?.....,keep shopping.

[notanlines]

"So assuming I get the T.V. weighed and its "with in spec" or verified "out of spec" how to I know I'm getting reliable weights on the trailers? "
Simply get everything weighed at your local friendly CAT scale. Believe me, they are accurate! Google their accuracy and you'll be amazed. And, from a former 2500 GMC Suburban owner, shop around and get a tow vehicle.

[gearhead]

I had a 1982? 2500 Suburban, 4X4, loaded. I don't think that 350 had a real 150HP. I always thought those Turbo400 transmissions were bullet proof. A 17 year old son with a pocket full of summer job money, a lift kit and Buckshot monster mudder tires proved me wrong.
But it LOOKED good! Kinda regret getting rid of it.
It proved to be a pretty good duck hunting rig.

[sonofcy]

I would like some advice on my possible set up.

I have a:
2017 Suburban 1500 4x4 with the Max trailer package
Axle ratio 3.42
curb weight 6000 lbs.
GVW 7500 lbs.
GCWR 14,000 lbs.
anything else you want to know?


I want to haul: (couple options but others are lower/smaller than below)
28 foot TT
curb weight 5210 lbs.
GVWR 6710 lbs.
anything else you want to know?

I'm 15% under my trailer weight rating so I "think" that is good but I also would be 210 lbs. OVER the GCWR if I had a fully loaded TV & TT. How often does that happen? thoughts on set up?

"I DON'T KNOW WHAT I DON'T KNOW"

DKW
When brand new my F450 and 41' Montana were BOTH over weight. Not a lot and we have shed some weight but to be safe always assume both TT and TV will be at GVWR at least. I am now looking at removing rear couch and front bench seats to shed weight plus relocate some weight from the front to the back. Note we are full time, have NO other home.

[rjward]

Sorry for the long post. Kind of a brain dump of my own experiance.

I have a similar SUV, a 2009 GMC Yukon Denali XL. I tow an “ultra light” 32ft TT that Cat scales at 6700 loaded for a 21 day trip.

I won’t tell you whether you should or shouldn’t get the camper you are looking at. Instead, I’ll share what it’s like towing close to the limit.

You will need to find a Cat scale in your area. It needs to be a scale that is broken in to 3 sections so you get front and rear axle weights and trailer weight. There are articles here about the process to weight your trailer. It’s a three step process the first time.

I’ll cover two groups of issues: Limits and Comfort.

Know Your limits:
Tires: If you are running the stock P tires then you will need to air them up to the max PSI to get the max load rating. The max load rating will likely be fine as the axle’s will be your limiting factor. Ignore the door stick PSI. That’s for everyday driving. LT E load truck tires would help but if this is a DD you probably won’t want to go this route unless you are going to keep a set just for towing.

Axles: This is one of the Suburban/Yukon weakness. You will need to carefully tune your WDH to move as much weight off the rear axle to keep it from being overloaded. However, you can’t go over the front axle limit either. But you need to keep enough tongue weight to prevent trailer sway. It’s a balancing act. I found that of all the limits keeping from going over the rear axle is the hardest.

Receiver Hitch: It’s not likely you will have an issue here. The problem will be getting the right amount of weight transfer to make the SUV handle well. There is a bunch written on this so I’ll just say, there is one quirk with the Suburban/Yukon body. The hitch is in the rear bumper which can make it higher than truck receivers. When buying your WDH you will need to make sure you get a shank that is long enough to get the hitch low enough to level the trailer. Speaking of hitches, you will need a good one with built in sway control. More importantly you will need to be familiar and comfortable with how it works as you will likely have to adjust it several times to get the load balanced. For my TT I'm between 800 - 850 tongue weight.

Suburban Payload: This is the bane of using a SUV’s as tow vehicles. First, you can carry 7 passengers or tow a big TT, but not both. Yes, you might be able to get away with loading it down to go 15 minutes down the flat roads to the lake, but not if you are really planning to travel.
Do everything you can to remove weight from Suburban. Everything that can should go in the camper. I even pull the 3rd row seats out but I don’t think that’s an option for your model year. Ideally nothing in the TV but people. I would consider the passenger limit as 4. Ideally 2 adults and 2 small kids. The heavier the trailer, the more tongue weight required, which comes out of your payload, which means less people/stuff. If you need to carry more people then you need a smaller/lighter trailer. Doesn’t make sense but that’s the math.

Suburban Max Carrying Capacity: If you are under the axle limits then you probably will be close on this but not over.

Trailer Carrying Capacity
Your trailer also has an axle limits and Payload limits. Know them, don't go over. You can put a lot of stuff in a TT. However, remember, with your TV the less weight the better. Because you will likely be pushing the limits here I found it worth it to buy a tongue weight scale. This is because you will need to load your trailer to give you the required tongue weight to tow property but no more, i.e. balancing the load front to back. Again, it’s a careful balancing act.

If all this seems a bit much you now understand why many people opt to just ignore all this or to buy more TV than they need. It gives you more margin and so you don’t have to be as precise.

Comfort
Ride
So assuming you have carefully balanced the load and are within all the limits and your TT is 6k or more then you are going to be loaded down. The ride is going to be noticeable harsher as the suspension is compressed. Also the SUV isn’t going to handle as smooth as it does normally. You will be riding herd on it more than normally. You’ll find a 2-3 hrs tow and you are beat.

Noise
I’ve got the 6.2 motor in the Denali and while it never suffers from pulling power it does have to run 2.5-3k RPM’s to do it and you can hear it. And BTW, power means heat. I didn’t know I had a two speed radiator fan till I pulled across Kanas in July at 100+ outside. While KS doesn’t have mountains it has a lot of long sustained climbs. The engine temp gage will move past the mid range but when it hits close to ¾ the fan will kick in and bring it back down. You will see trans temps 200-220. If you hit 240 or greater then you need to slow down and/or pull over. You will get a warning from the computer if the trans or engine gets too hot. Consider changing your trans fluid before any long summer trips and after you come back. It’s cheap insurance to keep your trans healthy.
I’m assuming the 5.3 motor will be similar, just less power. But then you are not going to be in a hurry with this rig. Consider 65 your max speed and then only on the flats.

For me, for right now, this is a workable solution. It allowed me to get the TT that I wanted and tow it with the TV that I owned. I’m under, barely, all the limits and at 80% of my TT capacity for my TV, but you know you are towing a big trailer. Once we no longer need the Yukon I would trade it for a Truck in a heart beat if we weren’t also planning to sell the trailer. We’ll be empty nesters so getting a MH so I can pull my jeep as a toad.

Lastly, just because everyone loves to ask: Gas mileage. Don't look. It takes fuel to make power and you are going to need all the power your motor can make. For me with the 6.2 I average between 6 & 8 on mixed terrain. On the flats I can get 10, but that is also only doing 55.

Good luck, have fun, be safe. Well, try for two out of three. And yes, I'm an engineer. :cool:

-Richard