Tongue Weight

[Steve's 70-5]

Trying to figure the tongue weight of my TT. On my way back from a trip this weekend, I stopped by a CAT scale and weighted everything. The first trip thru the scale, weighted truck and trailer, got weight of steer axle, drive axle and trailer axle. Dropped trailer and weighted truck only. With these weights can I figure tongue weight? What is equation to figure tongue weight.

[xrated]

You didn't say whether or not you are using a Weight Distribution hitch or not, but assuming you are, you need to do three weights.

1. Truck only, with all passengers, luggage, fuel etc. that you would normally carry when camping.
2. Truck (as described in number one) with the trailer hooked up and the W.D. bars tightened to where they normally would be.
3. Leave the truck and trailer on the scale after number 2 weight and disconnect the W.D. hitch spring bars. You don't need to remove them from the truck/trailer, just take the tension off of them and get your third weigh.

This method will give you all the number you need as well as showing you how effective the W.D. hitch is doing it's distribution.

[Steve's 70-5]

Got weight of truck only , loaded for a trip.



Got weight of truck and trailer with Weight Distributed set up for travel, loaded for trip.


Did not get weight of truck and trailer with Weight Distribution unhooked.


So I am SOL of finding tongue weight.

[xrated]

Got weight of truck only loaded for a trip.



Got weight of truck and trailer with Weight Distributed set up for travel, loaded for trip.


Did not get weight of truck and trailer with Weight Distribution unhooked.


So I am SOL of finding tongue weight.

Basically, yes...you need all three that I listed above. I'm putting a link to a website that has a work sheet and all the info you need to do the number, once you get that third weight..... https://fifthwheelst.com/

When you click the link and the page opens, along the top of the page you need to go to the "4-Step Weight Safety Plan". There will be a drop down and you need to download and print out the "Worksheet". The next step shows you exactly where and how to weigh the truck/trailer combination that you have. Step 3 is inputting all the numbers that you have collected from your 3 weight scale tickets (so yes, you do need to do the 3 weights that I listed above). When you input all of those numbers and click the calculate button you should see exactly where you are tongue weight wise as well as other critical weight ratings and whether you are within them. One word of caution....make sure that you select the proper worksheet....the one for a tow behind trailer and not for a 5th Wheel trailer...as they normally on require two weights because they do not use W.D. hitches.

[flybouy]

Or you could purchase a Sherline scale and know exactly what it is before you leave. I use it for loading for extended trips (extra bottled water, etc.) so I know if I need to place more weight further back, especially if I'm towing with full water tank (it's in the front).
https://www.amazon.com/Sherline-LM-5000-Trailer-Tongue-Weight/dp/B007REJKXA

[DocP]

Or you could purchase a Sherline scale and know exactly what it is before you leave. I use it for loading for extended trips (extra bottled water, etc.) so I know if I need to place more weight further back, especially if I'm towing with full water tank (it's in the front).
https://www.amazon.com/Sherline-LM-5000-Trailer-Tongue-Weight/dp/B007REJKXA

Yes. Have used one for the past 12 years, and it's one of the best tools I've got for the camper.

[CedarCreekWoody]

Yes, you can determine tongue weight with the two measurements you have. It is the difference in the truck weight on the two measurements. What you can't determine without the third measurement as described above is how effective your WDH is in transferring weight to the front axle of your truck. You should check that.

[Steve's 70-5]

Here are the weight

Steer axle. 4720
Drive axle 4660
Trailer 5920

Truck only
Steer axle 4940
Drive axle 3460

I just need tongue weight. I think I do not have a heavy enough bar for my sway control. Manufacture wants tongue weight to tell me what I need.

A Sherline scale is probably in the future

[flybouy]

Steve, that Sherline scale is an analog dial gauge. Sorry, couldn't resist.:whistling:

[Keystoned]

Looks like at least 1200 lb as weighed?

[flybouy]

Steer axle. 4720
Drive axle 4660
Trailer 5920

Truck only
Steer axle 4940
Drive axle 3460

4720 - 4940= -220
4660 - 3460 = 1200

1200 + (-200) = 1,000
Trailer tongue weight is ~17% of 5920

From what I get your front axle weight was reduced by 200 lb and you added 1,200 lb to rear axle when hitched. Are these numbers correct? Looks more like what I'd expect without WDH in use. The purpose of the WDH is to distribute the hitch weight across both truck axles.

If these numbers are correct then you should see front end lift (more room between fender and tire) and rear end squat (less room between fender and tire). Check the set up on the bars/hitch and follow the mfg instillation instructions.

Someone correct me if I'm incorrect or missing something.

[Steve's 70-5]

Very good. I do like digital gauges.

[chuckster57]

Or you could purchase a Sherline scale and know exactly what it is before you leave. I use it for loading for extended trips (extra bottled water, etc.) so I know if I need to place more weight further back, especially if I'm towing with full water tank (it's in the front).
https://www.amazon.com/Sherline-LM-5000-Trailer-Tongue-Weight/dp/B007REJKXA


I have both the 0-2000 for tt’s and the 0-5000 for fivers in my tool box. Many customers have had a surprise, and that’s without any cargo.

[Keystoned]

And that's why I shouldn't do math in public...lol

[Steve's 70-5]

The bars I am using are rated for 750lbs. tongue weight. The trailer I am pulling has a rating of 750lbs. empty.

[flybouy]

The bars I am using are rated for 750lbs. tongue weight. The trailer I am pulling has a rating of 750lbs. empty.

That "empty weight" was not valid once the transport driver put a battery in the battery box. The dealer installs the battery you get, the propane tanks and propane. All that weight is primarily on the tongue. Then EVERYTHING that you take in and leave in the trailer adds a percentage of it's weight to the tongue weight depending on where it is stored either fore or aft of the center of gravity. 750 lb bars are not sufficient for a 750 lb tongue weight (no margin left).

This why I like the scale I referenced. Without it you may hit the scales and uh oh, need to go home and reduce weight or redistribute it to get the proper tongue weight percentage. Instead of several trips to the scales it's a simple procedure. JMHO

Chuck, mine came with 2 gauges when I bought mine many years ago.

[flybouy]

And that's why I shouldn't do math in public...lol

You mean I got it right?:lol:

[xrated]

You mean I got it right?:lol:

Not exactly.....the W.D. system is meant to distribute the tongue weight to the front axle of the truck and then back to the trailer axle(s). The hitch itself is the "pivot point", if you will. So the bars would be like attaching a lifting cable around the hitch and raising it. The result would be some weight moved to the front axle of the truck, and some weight moved to the axle(s) of the trailer. And, the amount of tongue weight never increases or decreased, it stays the same, but it causes some of the weight to go forward (truck front axle), and some to go rearward (trailer axle or axles)

[flybouy]

Not exactly.....the W.D. system is meant to distribute the tongue weight to the front axle of the truck and then back to the trailer axle(s). The hitch itself is the "pivot point", if you will. So the bars would be like attaching a lifting cable around the hitch and raising it. The result would be some weight moved to the front axle of the truck, and some weight moved to the axle(s) of the trailer. And, the amount of tongue weight never increases or decreased, it stays the same, but it causes some of the weight to go forward (truck front axle), and some to go rearward (trailer axle or axles)

Understand that but trying to point out to the poster how his numbers on the truck in relationship to the WDH, not the truck and the trailer. With a negative net on the front the WDH is not accomplishing the intended effect. Thanks for "filling in" the rest of the equation.

[Frank G]

Here are the weight

I just need tongue weight. I think I do not have a heavy enough bar for my sway control. Manufacture wants tongue weight to tell me what I need.

A Sherline scale is probably in the future

It looks like you are trying to justify new (1000lb) bars. This is probably a justifiable purchase if it eases your mind. You might do some posting and see if anyone wants to trade. Is this a Blue Ox hitch? I was in this situation once.

Secondly, How does your unit tow as is? I would think near perfect as you have a totally capable tow unit for your camper. you are not even close to the edge and I doubt you will see much, if any, improvement going to 1000 lb bars or larger.

As always, just my opinion.

[flybouy]

It looks like you are trying to justify new (1000lb) bars. This is probably a justifiable purchase if it eases your mind. You might do some posting and see if anyone wants to trade. Is this a Blue Ox hitch? I was in this situation once.

Secondly, How does your unit tow as is? I would think near perfect as you have a totally capable tow unit for your camper. you are not even close to the edge and I doubt you will see much, if any, improvement going to 1000 lb bars or larger.

As always, just my opinion.

In my opinion running bars rated for 750 lbs with a 1,000 lb. load (33.3% over the rating) is past the "edge".

[CedarCreekWoody]

This isn't rocket science. Truck with trailer attached is 9,380. Truck without trailer is 8400 lbs. Difference is the tongue weight - 980 lbs. That being said it appears you do need stronger bars as you need to transfer more weight to the front axle.

[Steve's 70-5]

It looks like you are trying to justify new (1000lb) bars. This is probably a justifiable purchase if it eases your mind. You might do some posting and see if anyone wants to trade. Is this a Blue Ox hitch? I was in this situation once.

Secondly, How does your unit tow as is? I would think near perfect as you have a totally capable tow unit for your camper. you are not even close to the edge and I doubt you will see much, if any, improvement going to 1000 lb bars or larger.

As always, just my opinion.
I got a 2019 2500HD, Diesel. Laredo 225MK Tows great, need to watch speed when driving. When a truck passes I get some sway. I have no problem buying new bars, just want to get the right ones.

I am a little pissed that the dealer did not put the right ones on but Blue Ox sells it that way as a kit.

[CedarCreekWoody]

I would suggest at least 1,000 lb bars, or 1,200 if that is available.
In my experience you will get some trailer sway, or pull, when a large truck passes. That is normal with a "bumper pull" trailer, much less so with a fifth wheel. Fishtailing is what you want to avoid and it doesnt sound like you have that issue.

[Keystoned]

Yeah, my dealer set me up wrong also. Finally had to replace everything on the truck and trailer.

[NH_Bulldog]

The bars I got with my hitch (Eaz-Lift Trekker) are advertised as 600 lb. bars and rated up to 800 lbs. tongue weight. They seemed to work well, but I had a bit of “bounce” and the DW felt “seasick” on trips. I had foolishly taken the advertised tongue weight added in some margin of error and thought I was good......until I got on the scales! So we changed to the 1,000 lb. bars which are good to a tongue weight of 1,200 lbs. and now the DW doesn’t get seasick anymore.

When I pulled the camper from storage this past weekend, I checked everything again; bolt torques, ride heights, etc. and it was still spot on. For my set-up, I measured the height of the top of the wheel opening front and rear of the truck on both sides (rear is 2” higher than front unloaded). Then when loaded and connected with everything level, the rear settles 1” and the front is exactly the same as it was before connecting the trailer. This tells me the bars are sized right and the hitch is set right.

[Steve's 70-5]

Just ordered a scale with some other things from Amazon. Need to check LP tanks, I think they are almost MT. The trailer is still at the house, changing where I am storing things. Clothes and frig are empty. Will put some weight in the closets, probably about 25 lbs per closet. Will put about 50 lbs of weight in the frig. In the kitchen, will add a few lbs in the kitchen cabinets for food. Any imput on this, is welcome


Steve

[chuckster57]

50 lbs in the fridge? That’s a lot of beverage LOL.

[flybouy]

Must be drinking lager, or is that larger?:lol:

[travelin texans]

I'm thinking it must be a single guy with only 25lbs in the closet & 50lbs in the fridge.

[flybouy]

If he is young man at least he has priorities right!

[Steve's 70-5]

I am 62 years old, been married for 1 year. I went though a divorce, wife lost her husband to cancer. 2nd marriage for both of us. I am as happy as I can be. We love to go camping/ travel. My wife never thought she would be camping in a TT, she loves it. She likes that it gets me away from my projects at home. We take a lot of drinks, the wife does not cook and I am glad I married her.

25lbs in each closet. Beer, soft drinks, Margarita, bourbon. It all adds up

[flybouy]

Steve it's not personal. I'm happy it's all working out for you. Sometimes the forums sort of "take on their own life" and everyone gets silly which is better than folks getting edgy and picking fights IMO.

[Frank G]

In my opinion running bars rated for 750 lbs with a 1,000 lb. load (33.3% over the rating) is past the "edge".

The purpose of a weight distribution hitch is to transfer hitch weight to the TV's front axle and to the trailer axle(s). There is no overloading or under loading. Different sized bars will transfer more or less of the hitch weight.

The OP's TV could handle the 6900lb trailer without a weight distribution hitch (transporters don't use them) and stay within the TV's numbers. Not Idea, but doable. The Blue Ox Sway Pro with the 750lb bars transfers enough of the hitch weight and provide enough sway control to make for a comfortable tow. The 2019 2500HD, Diesel, weighing in at 8400lbs the OP has is ideal, lightning the front axle by 200lbs makes no difference as it is already heavy carrying the Duramax diesel. Had the TV have a gas engine it would be a different story as well as trying to pull it with a 1500. This is where the sizing of the bars becomes more critical.

Much of the information was pulled from the 2019 Chevrolet Trailering Guide and information provided by the OP. In the RV world weights are always changing due to loading and liquid levels so one needs to have enough equipment to stay within the ballpark and I believe the OP has.

[flybouy]

Don't believe me I don't care but I'd suggest giving this a read. https://www.etrailer.com/faq-2-steps-weight-distribution-size.aspx

[Steve's 70-5]

Steve it's not personal. I'm happy it's all working out for you. Sometimes the forums sort of "take on their own life" and everyone gets silly which is better than folks getting edgy and picking fights IMO.




I have been hanging out on forums for years. Understand what goes on, on them. I have seen threads fall off a cliff and then come back.:D

[Steve's 70-5]

Added some weight to the trailer and check tongue weight. Was showing 1,050lbs. This most likelly will be a weekend trip. A week trip would be more. Will have to call manufacture and see what they say

[jadatis]

Here are the weight

Steer axle. 4720
Drive axle 4660
Trailer 5920

Truck only
Steer axle 4940
Drive axle 3460

I just need tongue weight. I think I do not have a heavy enough bar for my sway control. Manufacture wants tongue weight to tell me what I need.

A Sherline scale is probably in the future

To my idea its simple.
Total weight truck and trailer 4720+4660+5920= 15300
Truck only 4940+3460= 8400
Trailer 15300-8300= 7000
Weigt on trailertires substracted from that gives 1080 on tonge. Wich is 15.42% of trailerweigt.
So I suspect no WDH used, otherwise the tonge-weight would be less.

[jadatis]

Front looses 220 lbs and Drive gains 1200lbs would suspect a tongweight of 980 lbs.
Is 100 lbs less then I calculated. Can be becauae of inacuract of scale, 100 lbs on these weights is not much. Even a calibrated scale is allowed one measure step different , in Europe mostly 20 kg= 44lbs.
Can give 30kg=66lbs difference in measurement, because weights in between are rounded.

[JRTJH]

I see a device sold by e-trailer called Better Weigh. Anybody used this to take to take the guess work out of 'how much does it weigh'?

The better weigh system is a "black box with an app for smart phones" that uses the vehicle attitude/weight sensors to calculate an "apparent weight on the hitch". For me (other's may/probably do feel differently)… Anyway, for me, the "jury is out" on how much I'd trust a scale that connects to my smart phone via Bluetooth to give me a "calculated weight" based on spring squat as measured by the gyro sensor in the CPU..... I know NASA gave us lots of "high tech stuff" but a scale based on vehicle attitude ???? Hmmmmm

[flybouy]

Front looses 220 lbs and Drive gains 1200lbs would suspect a tongweight of 980 lbs.
Is 100 lbs less then I calculated. Can be becauae of inacuract of scale, 100 lbs on these weights is not much. Even a calibrated scale is allowed one measure step different , in Europe mostly 20 kg= 44lbs.
Can give 30kg=66lbs difference in measurement, because weights in between are rounded.

Maybe they do math differently there but 100 lbs variance from a 1,000 lb. load is 10% So if the scale is 10% off in one direction means a 20% spread (+/- 10%). That's unacceptable for a "calibrated scale" in my book.

[flybouy]

The better weigh system is a "black box with an app for smart phones" that uses the vehicle attitude/weight sensors to calculate an "apparent weight on the hitch". For me (other's may/probably do feel differently)… Anyway, for me, the "jury is out" on how much I'd trust a scale that connects to my smart phone via Bluetooth to give me a "calculated weight" based on spring squat as measured by the gyro sensor in the CPU..... I know NASA gave us lots of "high tech stuff" but a scale based on vehicle attitude ???? Hmmmmm

I use a Shear Line scale but IF I bought that system I would take a reading while setting on a Cat scale. An accurate reading compared to the Cat (using the certified weight) then o.k. If it's appreciably off then I'd return it.

My personal preference would be to validate the product, the truck's computer, and the software that translates that to my phone. YMMV

[jadatis]

Maybe they do math differently there but 100 lbs variance from a 1,000 lb. load is 10% So if the scale is 10% off in one direction means a 20% spread (+/- 10%). That's unacceptable for a "calibrated scale" in my book.

But on the lowest weight of 4600lbs ( drive axle without trailer ) 66 lbs is only 1.42% .

I would even bett that if a person of 150 lbs would stand on the same scale, it would give something between 100 and 200 lbs.

[flybouy]

But on the lowest weight of 4600lbs ( drive axle without trailer ) 66 lbs is only 1.42% .

I would even bett that if a person of 150 lbs would stand on the same scale, it would give something between 100 and 200 lbs.

Every scale has a range as well as +/- % accuracy. Your example of a person of 150 with a 100 to 200 range is now +/- 33%.

[jadatis]

But a scale for trucks is not made to weigh a relatively low weight of only one person.
But mayby someone wants to try it out as experiment.

[flybouy]

But a scale for trucks is not made to weigh a relatively low weight of only one person.
But mayby someone wants to try it out as experiment.

Not alone but with the weight of a truck on it yes it should. When I bought my Sherline tongue scale it came with 2 gauges. I used the zero to 1K scale gauge first with a board and weighed myself. It was dead accurate. Changed to the next gauge ( 2k eack tick is 50lb.) and it was accurate.

So my point being, you can guess or you can know. I like to know so I bought the proper tool. I've never been one to use a screwdriver as a pry bar or use an 8 lb. maul to drive in a finish nail. YMMV

[Ken / Claudia]

The DOT scales are certified to be actuate for court/cites to 200 lbs plus/minus and show last numbers in 20 lb rounding. I man will not show anything standing on them, well at least me at 180lbs when geared up.
Some say CAT scales are 100% but I do not know if that's really true. I have only been around for the DOT scales when tested.

[notanlines]

All you want to know about scale accuracy (CAT) and then some:
https://fifthwheelst.com/commercial-truck-scales-vs-portable-scales-for-weighing-rvs.html

[hazmat456]

Here are the weight

Steer axle. 4720
Drive axle 4660
Trailer 5920

Truck only
Steer axle 4940
Drive axle 3460

I just need tongue weight. I think I do not have a heavy enough bar for my sway control. Manufacture wants tongue weight to tell me what I need.

A Sherline scale is probably in the future

You have only lost 200lbs on the front. without wd hooked up you could be up to 400 lbs light in the front. Without that third scale weight nobody knows what your tounge weight is to be able to say if you need different bars or just a simple adjustment. My rough guess is that you do not have that heavy of a trailer and your 650 bars are the correct ones. Your trailer only weighs 6900, you should only have around 800 lb tounge.