Unemployment benefits

[Fishsizzle]

Figured I would post this here as there are many wise and experienced ones.

Wife and I own a biz. For years was an llc. We always had to scrimp and save to pay the tax bill T the end of the year.

A few years back we switched to an S Corp. and began to “pay” ourselves (I use that term lay loosely) to pay into the tax system and not have a large tax bill at the end of the year.

We didn’t really look at our pay stubs to see what has been taken out all these years as we just “assumed” bad word I know, that all was well.

Trying to keep employees on, I had my wife go on unemployment and stay home to get the house around as we are going to sell it. (Another story)

Anyway, she gets a claimed denied from the state after a month of filings. We can’t figure it out until we start going back through both are pay stubs and see that our accountant hasn’t taken a dime in years from our check and put in unemployment for us (they do all our Payroll) They did for all our employees, but not us. They did for federal unemployment, but not state.

Being the weekend, I’ll rack my brain and drive myself crazy trying to understand what I did wrong, but was wondering if this is an S Corp thing? Or was it an oversight on my accountant ?

[flybouy]

I'm no financial guy and unemployment is a state issue. It sounds to me like you need to get an independent auditor to look at the accounten's books and actions. if the accountant is under contract you may be best advised by an attorney. Again, I'm no expert so take this for what it's worth which may be nothing.

Have you applied for an SBA loan?

[hankpage]

Unemployment is different in each state. When I was in New Jersey, I know that an owner (even as low as 10%) was not entitled to collect. It may be the same in your state. JM2¢, Hank

[Fishsizzle]

Unemployment is different in each state. When I was in New Jersey, I know that an owner (even as low as 10%) was not entitled to collect. It may be the same in your state. JM2¢, Hank

Yeah I will find out more. Just threw us for a loop!

[Fishsizzle]

I'm no financial guy and unemployment is a state issue. It sounds to me like you need to get an independent auditor to look at the accounten's books and actions. if the accountant is under contract you may be best advised by an attorney. Again, I'm no expert so take this for what it's worth which may be nothing.

Have you applied for an SBA loan?

Thanks, yes I put in with our bank first go round, but they really drug their feet waiting for “more clarification” from feds and missed out.

I have apps now in with 4 different places as we didn't know that banks will only take on or get a certain amount. Our original bank says we have cleared their protocol and are ready to send to SBA. We have 12 laid off and this will bring back 4 full time and help us retain 4 that we are trying to keep on.

We are just thankful that we were able to keep the doors open. We are down 50/60% but I feel terrible for those who had to close down completely.

[Roscommon48]

well, this issue is way above my grade as an old RVer.


You need to talk to your accountant/lawyer and figure out what is going on. Good luck.

[gearhead]

My first stop would be a CPA/Attorney.
I would lawyer up before I talked too much to your accountant.

[Fishsizzle]

well, this issue is way above my grade as an old RVer.


You need to talk to your accountant/lawyer and figure out what is going on. Good luck.

Thanks all good. Obviously above me as well and I’m living it !

[Fishsizzle]

My first stop would be a CPA/Attorney.
I would lawyer up before I talked too much to your accountant.

Uggg hate to think that way. I’ve only had to lawyer up a few times over crazy clients and have one retained right now for a land grab from the state on a piece of property I’m trying to grow my biz on

Thanks for heads up

[Ken / Claudia]

I have no advice except to say, I really wish you luck. It's bad enough at this time and adding that to the pile cannot be easy. BTW, I put my house on the market Thursday. I spend nearly every day working part of or all day for nearly 2 months making sure it was ready.

[Fishsizzle]

I have no advice except to say, I really wish you luck. It's bad enough at this time and adding that to the pile cannot be easy. BTW, I put my house on the market Thursday. I spend nearly every day working part of or all day for nearly 2 months making sure it was ready.

Thanks much and hope your home sells soon. We are hoping for get out of the “city” bounce. Given that we don’t have the density of larger cities, we didn’t really see much illness. The real estate crowd expects a mass exodus out of Cali and east coast. We are trying to get equity to into our business, and take a year or two off from owning a home and hang out/travel in the 5th wheel. (Bigger truck will be part of the equation, LOL)

[McRod]

It's neither. Your accountant did it right. Most small business owners go without pay...for years even. You cant fire the members of your corporation without restructuring it. So, if your spouse is listed as a board member of your S-Corp, i.e. treasurer, president, etc. Just because you sent her home don't mean you get to claim unemployment. That's actually just trying to game the system...I understand the motivation, but that's your answer.

That's an assumption on my part that your spouse is a member of your S-Corp. Not paying FUTA actually saves you money, which, I am sure your accountant was thinking about. You typically would not fire the owner/co owner...they just work for free until the business can sustain itself ( i.e earn you a paycheck.). Just talk with your CPA, they will explain it to you.

[Fishsizzle]

It's neither. Your accountant did it right. Most small business owners go without pay...for years even. You cant fire the members of your corporation without restructuring it. So, if your spouse is listed as a board member of your S-Corp, i.e. treasurer, president, etc. Just because you sent her home don't mean you get to claim unemployment. That's actually just trying to game the system...I understand the motivation, but that's your answer.

Ok, I’m not only weirded out about not getting unemployment. I’m worried that we didn’t pay in if we we’re supposed to.

It’s confusing because we paid in on everyone else but state unemployment. Money was taken out for Federal unemployment.

I’ll know more tonight. Thanks for your help.

[notanlines]

Justin, both DW and I are anxious to hear your answer. At our ages nothing makes any difference, we're just nosy!

[gearhead]

Heck I didn't know there was such a thing as federal unemployment. Does it underwrite a portion of the state payment?

[Fishsizzle]

Justin, both DW and I are anxious to hear your answer. At our ages nothing makes any difference, we're just nosy!

Payroll looking into it. No word back yet. Been busy with PPP all day. Have 4 apps in and trying to get docs in so hopefully one drops funding to us.

[Fishsizzle]

Heck I didn't know there was such a thing as federal unemployment. Does it underwrite a portion of the state payment?

Yeah it’s listed on our paystubs. I’d do not know what it’s all about! I will get myself educated fast here

[McRod]

FUTA is paid by you, the employer. It's not paid by employees. Your accountant generally files Form 940 quarterly on behalf of your business. Family members are typically exempt from paying FUTA. That's, generally, considered a good thing, to not pay a tax. If your business is struggling, rather than trying to get the low hanging fruit of unemployment for your spouse, the Fed is offering fully forgivable loans to small businesses. That's the route I would have my accountant working.

[Sarge2]

My wife took a layoff and has been trying to get on the Michigan unemployment site to start getting payments... She filed fine on line but it immediately said her account was "locked". She has been trying for weeks to get it "unlocked" without success... calls to the hotline get disconnected right after it says "due to high call volume try your call again later"... as for the email address it gives she has received no return emails... so it appears that unemployment for her may be a VERY long time coming... good thing we are not depending on her that for survival... I pray that anyone needing it to live has better luck with it...
Sarge

[Fishsizzle]

FUTA is paid by you, the employer. It's not paid by employees. Your accountant generally files Form 940 quarterly on behalf of your business. Family members are typically exempt from paying FUTA. That's, generally, considered a good thing, to not pay a tax. If your business is struggling, rather than trying to get the low hanging fruit of unemployment for your spouse, the Fed is offering fully forgivable loans to small businesses. That's the route I would have my accountant working.

Yep, have 4 PPP apps in. One so far has been submitted to SBA

[JRTJH]

... so it appears that unemployment for her may be a VERY long time coming... good thing we are not depending on her that for survival... I pray that anyone needing it to live has better luck with it...
Sarge

Many are facing the same series of "non-events" in trying to get what they've earned and have been "promised by their employer and the state"...

Fortunately, in your case, as you state, "you don't depend on that money to survive"...

Unfortunately, for some, they have no other means of income except for that money and they, like your wife, can't get the system to work, can't get what was promised as "their lifeline" and their kids are hungry...

It doesn't make a "hill of beans difference" when the state "promises they will block landlords and banks from throwing people out of their homes and that they'll "make it illegal" for a utility company to disconnect utilities... Being inside an apartment with water and heat won't stop the kids from crying with hunger.

If anything, I've learned that we can't rely on the government to take care of us... It's people who have a sense of charity and are "stepping up to take care of their neighbors" that will, once again, come through where "the government fails"....

If WE don't learn anything else from this, we all need to realize that it's our neighbors and friends that make the difference, not those in state capitols and Washington.....

[Fishsizzle]

Many are facing the same series of "non-events" in trying to get what they've earned and have been "promised by their employer and the state"...

Fortunately, in your case, as you state, "you don't depend on that money to survive"...

Unfortunately, for some, they have no other means of income except for that money and they, like your wife, can't get the system to work, can't get what was promised as "their lifeline" and their kids are hungry...

It doesn't make a "hill of beans difference" when the state "promises they will block landlords and banks from throwing people out of their homes and that they'll "make it illegal" for a utility company to disconnect utilities... Being inside an apartment with water and heat won't stop the kids from crying with hunger.

If anything, I've learned that we can't rely on the government to take care of us... It's people who have a sense of charity and are "stepping up to take care of their neighbors" that will, once again, come through where "the government fails"....

If WE don't learn anything else from this, we all need to realize that it's our neighbors and friends that make the difference, not those in state capitols and Washington.....

Amen.... I have made a pledge that we will make sure everything we buy from here on out will come from local first. We are making a list of all supplies at work that we buy monthly and are going to send it out to local supply houses to see what they can do to keep it in stock for us.

The hard part for us is Amazon has become so easy to just subscribe and it shows up without even thinking. It freed up a tremendous amount of time shopping and picking up stuff. But now it’s the least I can do to keep money as local as I can. Need to keep money cycling in and out of my pocket and the best way to to put it in a neighbors pocket.

Also I’ll admit, I’m not a big saver. I enjoy life on the fly. But after this, we need to put 2 months in the bank. We are going to set up funds for our workers as well to stock up a month for each of them as well.

[Sarge2]

Many are facing the same series of "non-events" in trying to get what they've earned and have been "promised by their employer and the state"...

Fortunately, in your case, as you state, "you don't depend on that money to survive"...

Unfortunately, for some, they have no other means of income except for that money and they, like your wife, can't get the system to work, can't get what was promised as "their lifeline" and their kids are hungry...

It doesn't make a "hill of beans difference" when the state "promises they will block landlords and banks from throwing people out of their homes and that they'll "make it illegal" for a utility company to disconnect utilities... Being inside an apartment with water and heat won't stop the kids from crying with hunger.

If anything, I've learned that we can't rely on the government to take care of us... It's people who have a sense of charity and are "stepping up to take care of their neighbors" that will, once again, come through where "the government fails"....

If WE don't learn anything else from this, we all need to realize that it's our neighbors and friends that make the difference, not those in state capitols and Washington.....

Well said.... no doubt about it... I only hope that those lame brains that think that the government is going to "take care of them" realize it doesn't work, never has and never will... we have to take care of ourselves and each other...

[JRTJH]

Justin,

When I ran my own outpatient clinic, I found that I was either making the choice to pay someone to mow the grass and mop the exam room floors or I was doing it... There were times that I wished I could clone myself rather than take the time to do the "simple things that have to be done"....

That said, one of the tasks I hated was "inventory of supplies" and taking time to order them on a weekly basis... All of this was "before Amazon" so I didn't have that choice. What I did have was a local "medical supply company" that I contracted with to keep my "stuff in stock in my office". They contracted with me to do a weekly inventory, order, deliver and stock my supplies in the office pantry and in the patient rooms. The cost for that service was $10 weekly. They assumed the responsibility of keeping their inventory stocked so I never ran out, and if I had some "run on an item" and was running low, they guaranteed "within 24 hour delivery" of anything I needed.

For me, it was a "no brainer" not to have my nurses (at their pay grade) doing inventory on supplies and it freed me of the need to double check to make sure someone else had already done it that week... Essentially, I was the one who "HAD TO HAVE THE STUFF" when I was in the room with the patient....

It seemed like, at least in my situation, the smart thing to do was to "outsource my medial supply inventory to a local company" who made their profit off my purchases and who absorbed the responsibility of keeping my stock levels in the office... In the long run, it was much MUCH cheaper for me to have the local company take care of me than it was to "pick and choose the cheapest Chinese product and keep it ordered.

In my business, it was one of the best moves I made, to support a local company to take care of things I needed. They looked out for me much more than Amazon ever would (or could)… YMMV

[Fishsizzle]

Justin,

When I ran my own outpatient clinic, I found that I was either making the choice to pay someone to mow the grass and mop the exam room floors or I was doing it... There were times that I wished I could clone myself rather than take the time to do the "simple things that have to be done"....

That said, one of the tasks I hated was "inventory of supplies" and taking time to order them on a weekly basis... All of this was "before Amazon" so I didn't have that choice. What I did have was a local "medical supply company" that I contracted with to keep my "stuff in stock in my office". They contracted with me to do a weekly inventory, order, deliver and stock my supplies in the office pantry and in the patient rooms. The cost for that service was $10 weekly. They assumed the responsibility of keeping their inventory stocked so I never ran out, and if I had some "run on an item" and was running low, they guaranteed "within 24 hour delivery" of anything I needed.

For me, it was a "no brainer" not to have my nurses (at their pay grade) doing inventory on supplies and it freed me of the need to double check to make sure someone else had already done it that week... Essentially, I was the one who "HAD TO HAVE THE STUFF" when I was in the room with the patient....

It seemed like, at least in my situation, the smart thing to do was to "outsource my medial supply inventory to a local company" who made their profit off my purchases and who absorbed the responsibility of keeping my stock levels in the office... In the long run, it was much MUCH cheaper for me to have the local company take care of me than it was to "pick and choose the cheapest Chinese product and keep it ordered.

In my business, it was one of the best moves I made, to support a local company to take care of things I needed. They looked out for me much more than Amazon ever would (or could)… YMMV

Agree. I’m gong to do the same with banking. Find a local credit union who does SBA as we have some upcoming projects. Been with Chase for 10 years as they are super convenient, but I been tweaked at them over the PPP and not having anyone to talk with.

[notanlines]

Justin, your statement "We are going to set up funds for our workers as well to stock up a month for each of them as well" needs to be looked at very, very carefully. The fed's (Wage and Hour people) and state have extremely strict rules on what can and can't be done with your employee's money. Your good intentions may very well be used to pave the road to hell if you're not careful. :nonono::eek:

[Fishsizzle]

Justin, your statement "We are going to set up funds for our workers as well to stock up a month for each of them as well" needs to be looked at very, very carefully. The fed's (Wage and Hour people) and state have extremely strict rules on what can and can't be done with your employee's money. Your good intentions may very well be used to pave the road to hell if you're not careful. :nonono::eek:

LOL! Thanks for looking out for us. I over simplified it. I’ve already spoke with accountant and another business about PTO and how to set up banking it for employees and add it into payroll. Then they have it sitting there for them to draw on.

Thanks again!

[sourdough]

Justin,

When I ran my own outpatient clinic, I found that I was either making the choice to pay someone to mow the grass and mop the exam room floors or I was doing it... There were times that I wished I could clone myself rather than take the time to do the "simple things that have to be done"....

That said, one of the tasks I hated was "inventory of supplies" and taking time to order them on a weekly basis... All of this was "before Amazon" so I didn't have that choice. What I did have was a local "medical supply company" that I contracted with to keep my "stuff in stock in my office". They contracted with me to do a weekly inventory, order, deliver and stock my supplies in the office pantry and in the patient rooms. The cost for that service was $10 weekly. They assumed the responsibility of keeping their inventory stocked so I never ran out, and if I had some "run on an item" and was running low, they guaranteed "within 24 hour delivery" of anything I needed.

For me, it was a "no brainer" not to have my nurses (at their pay grade) doing inventory on supplies and it freed me of the need to double check to make sure someone else had already done it that week... Essentially, I was the one who "HAD TO HAVE THE STUFF" when I was in the room with the patient....

It seemed like, at least in my situation, the smart thing to do was to "outsource my medial supply inventory to a local company" who made their profit off my purchases and who absorbed the responsibility of keeping my stock levels in the office... In the long run, it was much MUCH cheaper for me to have the local company take care of me than it was to "pick and choose the cheapest Chinese product and keep it ordered.

In my business, it was one of the best moves I made, to support a local company to take care of things I needed. They looked out for me much more than Amazon ever would (or could)… YMMV






This^^^^ is going on with us right now as we speak.

I've dealt with the same bank for decades. DW worked there, a fellow I knew owned it, I knew and worked with all the officers...everything was fine. Prior to Covid the bank was bought out by a larger bank. Downsized the staff, cut down the drive thrus etc. THEN the eliminated any staff in the drive thrus and touted "24 hr. teller"....really? It's a computer and you can't do anything with it because it is so limited...and that is 24 hours a day so people stopped using the drives and started going inside because they said the moved the drive thru staff inside - wrong, they were let go so the lines inside were huge because no one would use the "electronic" tellers that were so dysfunctional. Then Covid; they locked the doors and no one is allowed inside. Customers are relegated to the "electronic tellers".

Now, compare that to the only home owned bank we have; all teller drives occupied and doing full business; you can see anyone inside the bank anytime as long as you call, state your business and who to see and set the time so they can let you in. The differences are so drastic it's really unbelievable. The "outsider" could care less about you, what you need or anything else. The "local" bank breaks their back to take care of us.

I have had one account at the home owned bank (owned since 1906) and the others at the other bank. Started moving them just prior to Covid due to what they were doing to customers. It is SO refreshing to have folks that WANT to take care of you and your business.

As a note on how messed up it is I sent DW to the bank because I had to leave town. I wanted to get some money before we leave for FL - not a lot but 4 figures. Where do you get that? The "automated teller". How do you get that? Spend about 5 minutes showing the your DL, bank account info etc. and then? THEN? How do you want your money? The little town in FL we go to does not like anything over a 20 but we carry a bit in larger bills; primarily want 20s. Nope. Can't have it. We can give you a 5, 20, 50 or 100 and.....we can't give you more than 20 bills....!!! What? So tomorrow I have to go to the home owned bank to break all the larger bills the other bank can't provide. I can't get out of there quick enough. Local, home owned, local production/businesses - that's where we have failed. As we constantly pursue "cheap", drive all our money and business to them while at the same time driving our local businesses/manufacturers out, we forget about the day, THIS day, when those choices placed us all in jeopardy - just as we placed those businesses and employees in the same position. I am as guilty as the next guy but I will amend my ways so we aren't placing our welfare in the hands of those that could care less....or worse.

[JRTJH]

An example that hit home with us:

Our daughter is an "artist". She has her studio in Cincinnati in the wedding district. She makes paper flowers, arrangements, decorates for weddings, has thousands of dollars tied up in "props, knickknacks, crystal, silver, etc" I suppose you could call her a "one stop wedding planner/organizer/decorator/cleanup after the ceremony type of business...

She also sells "laser engraved art" in forms from quotes on artistic wood plaques to laser engraved crystal.

Anyway, Ohio forced her to close her business, she can't sell pictures or artificial flowers, but Target, WalMart and KMart are open for business selling the same types of "cheap crap" in their aisles....

Somewhere along the way, "essential products in essential stores" got changed to "if you're a small business, you have to close, if you're a big retailer, you're golden"...

This entire COVID goatrope is just that, a disorganized series of befuddling decisions followed by insane explanations of those decisions followed by even more "we know better than you what you need"....

It's time to stop the insanity and get this country back to work !!!!!

[gearhead]

We try very hard to buy local. Local bank, but it is growing and will likely be considered a regional soon. The manager is known to us, kids went to school together, her dad was a local judge, etc.
We have a local lumber yard/hardware store that I seem to visit several times a week.
I get so frustrated in WalMart y'all will probably read about me sometime.
I commend anyone who buys local and hope more do.

[Fishsizzle]

Yeah! PPP was approved. Not from our Bank, but our credit processing company has a deal with a regional bank and got it for us.

Sleep a little better tonight.

Something is brewing with state on employment as well. We will know more soon we hope

[Roscommon48]

gearhead. ALL state unemployment office are doing their regular unemployment thing with the ADD $600 a week the federal is being reimbursed for--this is through July but the Congress wants to make it until end of December....interesting time to end it.



heck, the way it's going here in michigan many unemployed will not want to go back to work.

[sourdough]

gearhead. ALL state unemployment office are doing their regular unemployment thing with the ADD $600 a week the federal is being reimbursed for--this is through July but the Congress wants to make it until end of December....interesting time to end it.



heck, the way it's going here in michigan many unemployed will not want to go back to work.



You're right. We have many right now about to wet themselves thinking of that unemployment PLUS $600. Extend to December? 100% political BS. Doing it the first place? Same thing. The gov can't give what it doesn't have and it only has what WE give (working folks). Remember the riots in Italy?? when the government tried to start reducing all the freebies the non producers received? We will be there shortly if common sense doesn't prevail.

[Fishsizzle]

You're right. We have many right now about to wet themselves thinking of that unemployment PLUS $600. Extend to December? 100% political BS. Doing it the first place? Same thing. The gov can't give what it doesn't have and it only has what WE give (working folks). Remember the riots in Italy?? when the government tried to start reducing all the freebies the non producers received? We will be there shortly if common sense doesn't prevail.

Called my landlord to tell him I got the PPP loan and planned on getting him paid ASAP and getting people back to work. He said “if you can get them back”. Yep they are making to much money sitting at home. I guess I’ll see who really wants a job here shortly

[Fishsizzle]

Well here’s the story;

An earlier comment hit it pretty close.

In Oregon, you can file with the Feds as S-Corp (which we are) but, still operate as an LLC in the fact that you can officer exempt from paying state unemployment.

So, if you don’t op out, you pay 2% and they Oregon pays the fed part, and then keeps the rest in state unemployment.

In our case, we didn’t know what was filed. It was assumed that we would stick to the LLC rate. Just a miscommunication I guess.

So we cannot go backwards and pay in unless we go all the way back, in they case 2016 to pay in and catch up.

So we are out on state unemployment.

Bright side, we did get a PPP loan, so now working with employees to get them back on the schedule and working. Based on guidance from accountant,
It seems near Impossible to get 100% loan forgiveness. So we will do our best at record keeping to see where we land.

Again, our Bank didn’t come through. I had the money in the account from my credit processing company that partnered with a Regional Bank, by the time Chase got around to getting our application in.

Thanks to all who were following and insight. Few more wrinkles to Iron out with accountant and we will be set.

[Fishsizzle]

Well the state decided to change their minds today. We now have to go back and put unemployment from 2016 to present, plus penalties.

Hopefully the unemployment we claimed the last month will offset the amount, so it will be a wash.