Stay Away From Thor

[John57]

My advice would be to stay away from Thor Industry products. My Fuzion is still a mess, and now with the quarantine, it may run out of warranty before mechanics are allowed back to work.
Currently, to add to the situation, I cannot get my 427 winterized. Pump will not pull antifreeze. This is the 17th problem thus far with it and only a single trip. Cant keep it warm, because the furnace has puked also. Couldnt get the pump even if I wanted to.
The engineering is questionable and the manufacturing is downright awful. Shower door 1.5 inches out of square (water splashes out at the bottom) - you can get a pencil between the door and the jamb on the rear bath - and the factory installed 3 washers behind the strike plate in order to get it to latch. TV cable likely has a nail or staple through it and main tv wont get a clear picture unless the cable is run through a window directly to the tv... and many others - thus far only one parts failure - the fridge on day 1 in Florida. Thor is a POS company, IMO. Quality isnt in their vocabulary, but I bet speed and profit are in bold.

[sourdough]

My advice would be to stay away from Thor Industry products. My Fuzion is still a mess, and now with the quarantine, it may run out of warranty before mechanics are allowed back to work.
Currently, to add to the situation, I cannot get my 427 winterized. Pump will not pull antifreeze. This is the 17th problem thus far with it and only a single trip. Cant keep it warm, because the furnace has puked also. Couldnt get the pump even if I wanted to.
The engineering is questionable and the manufacturing is downright awful. Shower door 1.5 inches out of square (water splashes out at the bottom) - you can get a pencil between the door and the jamb on the rear bath - and the factory installed 3 washers behind the strike plate in order to get it to latch. TV cable likely has a nail or staple through it and main tv wont get a clear picture unless the cable is run through a window directly to the tv... and many others - thus far only one parts failure - the fridge on day 1 in Florida. Thor is a POS company, IMO. Quality isnt in their vocabulary, but I bet speed and profit are in bold.



The highlighted portion can/will/does apply to every RV manufacturer out there given the right trailer and right buyer. It is the very reason DW and I prayed we got "one of the good ones" when we bought this new trailer sight unseen. Did you not see a shower door 1 1/2" out of square on your PDI?

[notanlines]

Assuming you're in Michigan put the winterizing on the back burner. You've already gone through winter so what's done is done.
(I know you aren't going to tell us you've used it this spring are you?)

[Customer1]

You've complained quite a bit since you joined the forum. Why didn't you get things corrected last fall when you first posted about them?

No manufacturer puts out a flawless RV but in my opinion the biggest problem is dealers that sell a flawed product. The RV manufacturers expect the dealer to examine every system and correct any issues before sale. That is the way the system works, the dealer acts as the quality control department.

I don't know what you are comparing your RV with, but the RV manufacturers cannot compare with any modern item like cars, trucks, or homes. The RV industry is still in the model T Ford era comparatively. Owning one is something of a DIY situation.

[John57]

we are going to hit 24 tomorrow night. Without a furnace, I had no choice. Was hoping not to have to winterize it, but not taking a chance.

[John57]

You are right, I have "Bitched" a lot since getting it. We just completed our first trip - 3 mo in Florida. My biggest gripe remains - no diagram or manual with the trailer as far as plumbing, electrical, and parts locations. That would be the biggest help to me and time saver for all of these repairs I do myself. I am not afraid of projects - just all the excessive work needed to locate a problem when a diagram would help me get to the root faster.
I tend to expect more out of American-made products, then again, maybe I shouldnt. :(
After spending those months in two parks in Florida, I have found that the buyers of RVs are tolerating the garbage out of the factory waaay too much. EVERY owner I talked with (mostly Thor products), but also Winnebago, Lance and some others and several motorhome makers, all have issues. Some serious, some not so serious. I was greatly disturbed by the "I expect it" attitude of most all of them.
A few did had good service from Keystone, while most said there were always problems with the repairs as well. Almost all saying the time it took to get warranty work done cost them camping time. (usually multiple months). My neighbor spent Jan and Feb unable to get Lance to repair his slider which was under warranty - a broken gear. 3 trips to LazyDays...
The fact that this kind of quality is SOP with manufacturers galls me. I understand breakdowns, as I own a farm. Yes, perhaps they are in the Model T age of quality, but with the attitude of RV owners seemingly everywhere, it wont change. Thats a more serious issue IMO.
By luck I met someone at the park with as much discouragement as I and he knows a lobbyist for a related industry that has a decent-sized foot in DC. I am hoping something will come of it. I have offered my help to him, so I may be back asking for information about problems down the road. He had a new Winnebago with serious chassis/brake issues - that were out of the factory.
At any rate, yes, I am somewhat guilty of missing things such as the two doors. Had I seen them I probably would have declined the trailer, since they were very basic construction mistakes. Those type things essentially define a company to me.
Anyway, I spent the day getting to the pump. Found out my reason for not getting suction of the antifreeze - the screws holding the rubber mounts of the pump to the floor came out. They went into the floor less than a quarter inch! They didnt even make it past the vinyl flooring into anything solid. The pump had been hanging on by the pex tubing and the motion caused an air leak or a break - so the pump was sucking air. I have pictures and its just another case of shoddy workmanship at the factory. A worker probably cut a hose too short and then made it work. Three of the screws went literally through the side of the rubber mount, because the mount would not reach the floor! - so its likely the mounts will tear on the next trip. On top of that, the torque on the rubber mount had twisted the rubber for so long it would not return to its original shape! It was very difficult remounting it in those tight quarters. (I put a 1 inch block of would under the pump so as to mount it flat and compensate for the short hoses.
Now my next project is to get rid of some of the stiff pex tubing and replace with proper length and more flexible tubing and replace the bad fitting. Next month or whenever it comes back from the warranty work.
To answer your last question - I am comparing it to a Terry Resort I had about 25 years ago - not one problem with it, save for some aluminum siding that bubbled about 3 years after I bought it. Granted it wasnt as convenient as the features on this trailer - but it came out of the factory near perfect.

[sourdough]

You are right, I have "Bitched" a lot since getting it. We just completed our first trip - 3 mo in Florida. My biggest gripe remains - no diagram or manual with the trailer as far as plumbing, electrical, and parts locations. That would be the biggest help to me and time saver for all of these repairs I do myself. I am not afraid of projects - just all the excessive work needed to locate a problem when a diagram would help me get to the root faster.
I tend to expect more out of American-made products, then again, maybe I shouldnt. :(
After spending those months in two parks in Florida, I have found that the buyers of RVs are tolerating the garbage out of the factory waaay too much. EVERY owner I talked with (mostly Thor products), but also Winnebago, Lance and some others and several motorhome makers, all have issues. Some serious, some not so serious. I was greatly disturbed by the "I expect it" attitude of most all of them.
A few did had good service from Keystone, while most said there were always problems with the repairs as well. Almost all saying the time it took to get warranty work done cost them camping time. (usually multiple months). My neighbor spent Jan and Feb unable to get Lance to repair his slider which was under warranty - a broken gear. 3 trips to LazyDays...
The fact that this kind of quality is SOP with manufacturers galls me. I understand breakdowns, as I own a farm. Yes, perhaps they are in the Model T age of quality, but with the attitude of RV owners seemingly everywhere, it wont change. Thats a more serious issue IMO.
By luck I met someone at the park with as much discouragement as I and he knows a lobbyist for a related industry that has a decent-sized foot in DC. I am hoping something will come of it. I have offered my help to him, so I may be back asking for information about problems down the road. He had a new Winnebago with serious chassis/brake issues - that were out of the factory.
At any rate, yes, I am somewhat guilty of missing things such as the two doors. Had I seen them I probably would have declined the trailer, since they were very basic construction mistakes. Those type things essentially define a company to me.
Anyway, I spent the day getting to the pump. Found out my reason for not getting suction of the antifreeze - the screws holding the rubber mounts of the pump to the floor came out. They went into the floor less than a quarter inch! They didnt even make it past the vinyl flooring into anything solid. The pump had been hanging on by the pex tubing and the motion caused an air leak or a break - so the pump was sucking air. I have pictures and its just another case of shoddy workmanship at the factory. A worker probably cut a hose too short and then made it work. Three of the screws went literally through the side of the rubber mount, because the mount would not reach the floor! - so its likely the mounts will tear on the next trip. On top of that, the torque on the rubber mount had twisted the rubber for so long it would not return to its original shape! It was very difficult remounting it in those tight quarters. (I put a 1 inch block of would under the pump so as to mount it flat and compensate for the short hoses.
Now my next project is to get rid of some of the stiff pex tubing and replace with proper length and more flexible tubing and replace the bad fitting. Next month or whenever it comes back from the warranty work.
To answer your last question - I am comparing it to a Terry Resort I had about 25 years ago - not one problem with it, save for some aluminum siding that bubbled about 3 years after I bought it. Granted it wasnt as convenient as the features on this trailer - but it came out of the factory near perfect.



After this much time, and as many folks as you've talked to I suppose you have, or should have, "the lay of the land" when it comes to RV purchase or ownership in todays world. You may want top notch quality without a single glitch but I doubt you want to pay that price, and more importantly, neither do about 95% of the other RV buyers. In that scenario, the RV manufacturers are churning out RVs as fast as they can to waiting lines and every one of them will get something not perfect.....maybe be a little flustered, but happy they have "that" RV and most assuredly did not want to, now would they, pay a 50% minimum premium to make sure that every unit came off the line perfect; ain't gonna happen and no one wants to pay the price for it to be that way, hence, all those folks that "accept" it. Those folks understand the dynamics at play, learn how to deal with them and in turn learn how to be happy. Some can't/won't accept those parameters and make themselves miserable and try to make others feel the same way....it's a lose/lose approach.

As far as schematics for plumbing, wiring etc. Again, that's not a "Thor" issue, it's the nature of the game. There may be 1 or 2 manufacturers that provide some minimal stuff but you can't standardize every wire placement/location on every trailer from every model and design and still hit those pricing and production guidelines. Fix the little hiccups, grin about it, think about that next trip and HAVE FUN with it.

[ctbruce]

Just a word from the peanut gallery. Before I bought my Impact, I read every post on this forum to get a feel for what was getting myself into BEFORE I bought. It helped immensely.

I knew going in
1. How the winterize function worked.
2. Potential problems with the furnace, water heater, air conditioner and other systems. AND, how to fix them.
3. There are no shop manuals. So I knew I either had to fix it myself or ask on the forum for help. I did both.
4. What to pay particular attention to at my PDI.
5. Learned to take time to develop a good relationship with my dealer and the service department outside of just bitching at them. This was invaluable.
6. I have kept on learning, reading and interacting with others on this forum to gain from their experiences and to share my own.

Just some advice for others as they look at buying or who already bought and are wondering what to do. The folks here are the most helpful in the world. And I appreciate all they do to help others.

[dutchmensport]

Don't know what problem you are experiencing with winterizing, but I finally figured it out that the winterizing antifreeze bottle had to be at least level or set higher than where the hose connected to the hose connection in the wet bay. If the antifreeze was on the ground, or actually lower than the fill port, the pump would not draw the antifreeze up. I suppose too much air and not enough vacuum suction. When I raised the bottle above the connection port, it worked perfectly fine. It's little awkward for me because I have to put the antifreeze gallon jug on a step ladder to get it high enough. Otherwise a second person has to hold it in the air. But when I did this, it worked and the pump draws up the antifreeze just fine then.

Hopefully, by now, you've figured out what works on your camper.

[travelin texans]

You are right, I have "Bitched" a lot since getting it. We just completed our first trip - 3 mo in Florida. My biggest gripe remains - no diagram or manual with the trailer as far as plumbing, electrical, and parts locations. That would be the biggest help to me and time saver for all of these repairs I do myself. I am not afraid of projects - just all the excessive work needed to locate a problem when a diagram would help me get to the root faster.
I tend to expect more out of American-made products, then again, maybe I shouldnt. :(
After spending those months in two parks in Florida, I have found that the buyers of RVs are tolerating the garbage out of the factory waaay too much. EVERY owner I talked with (mostly Thor products), but also Winnebago, Lance and some others and several motorhome makers, all have issues. Some serious, some not so serious. I was greatly disturbed by the "I expect it" attitude of most all of them.
A few did had good service from Keystone, while most said there were always problems with the repairs as well. Almost all saying the time it took to get warranty work done cost them camping time. (usually multiple months). My neighbor spent Jan and Feb unable to get Lance to repair his slider which was under warranty - a broken gear. 3 trips to LazyDays...
The fact that this kind of quality is SOP with manufacturers galls me. I understand breakdowns, as I own a farm. Yes, perhaps they are in the Model T age of quality, but with the attitude of RV owners seemingly everywhere, it wont change. Thats a more serious issue IMO.
By luck I met someone at the park with as much discouragement as I and he knows a lobbyist for a related industry that has a decent-sized foot in DC. I am hoping something will come of it. I have offered my help to him, so I may be back asking for information about problems down the road. He had a new Winnebago with serious chassis/brake issues - that were out of the factory.
At any rate, yes, I am somewhat guilty of missing things such as the two doors. Had I seen them I probably would have declined the trailer, since they were very basic construction mistakes. Those type things essentially define a company to me.
Anyway, I spent the day getting to the pump. Found out my reason for not getting suction of the antifreeze - the screws holding the rubber mounts of the pump to the floor came out. They went into the floor less than a quarter inch! They didnt even make it past the vinyl flooring into anything solid. The pump had been hanging on by the pex tubing and the motion caused an air leak or a break - so the pump was sucking air. I have pictures and its just another case of shoddy workmanship at the factory. A worker probably cut a hose too short and then made it work. Three of the screws went literally through the side of the rubber mount, because the mount would not reach the floor! - so its likely the mounts will tear on the next trip. On top of that, the torque on the rubber mount had twisted the rubber for so long it would not return to its original shape! It was very difficult remounting it in those tight quarters. (I put a 1 inch block of would under the pump so as to mount it flat and compensate for the short hoses.
Now my next project is to get rid of some of the stiff pex tubing and replace with proper length and more flexible tubing and replace the bad fitting. Next month or whenever it comes back from the warranty work.
To answer your last question - I am comparing it to a Terry Resort I had about 25 years ago - not one problem with it, save for some aluminum siding that bubbled about 3 years after I bought it. Granted it wasnt as convenient as the features on this trailer - but it came out of the factory near perfect.

The title is "Stay away from Thor".
Not sure if you've paid much attention, but Thor being the largest manufacturer (75-85%+ of the RVs on the road) of rvs with probably a dozen brands in their stable it would take some searching for you to find one that's not in that stable and even harder to find ANY brand that would ANY better than Thor.
As others have stated if yours is in that bad of shape Thank your dealer, yes the factory rolled it out, but the dealer was to correct their mistakes, if they were too busy, too lazy to do so & you failed to spot it during PDI take it back.

[John57]

No offense Danny,
Yes, I have looked into Keystone/Thor and understand that they are huge. Question becomes are they large enough to ignore customers apparently they way they do forever?
But "tolerating and living with this type of "quality" is the attitude that allows these manufacturers to continue to produce crap. I believe that warranty repair by dealers may actually be a line item on their budget with what I have read for the last 6 months or so.
I am hoping I can at least start something to change this situation for future buyers. I'm retired with little else to do! lol
Thanks for the feedback!

[John57]

Don't know what problem you are experiencing with winterizing, but I finally figured it out that the winterizing antifreeze bottle had to be at least level or set higher than where the hose connected to the hose connection in the wet bay. If the antifreeze was on the ground, or actually lower than the fill port, the pump would not draw the antifreeze up. I suppose too much air and not enough vacuum suction. When I raised the bottle above the connection port, it worked perfectly fine. It's little awkward for me because I have to put the antifreeze gallon jug on a step ladder to get it high enough. Otherwise a second person has to hold it in the air. But when I did this, it worked and the pump draws up the antifreeze just fine then.

Hopefully, by now, you've figured out what works on your camper.
My issue (I wrote it down somewhere on here) was the fact that the pump came loose from the floor mounting (screws not in far enough and hoses to short to allow it to even reach the floor) and the motion and banging of the pump caused a fitting to crack. I ended up getting antifreeze into the system eventually by holding the crack together. It happened on my return trip otherwise we may have had serious water issues in the trailer. When it warms I will replace the pex tubing with more flexible tubing and that should absorb the motion while moving.
What you describe I had to do the first time. It worked well then.

[JRTJH]

No offense Danny,
Yes, I have looked into Keystone/Thor and understand that they are huge. Question becomes are they large enough to ignore customers apparently they way they do forever?
But "tolerating and living with this type of "quality" is the attitude that allows these manufacturers to continue to produce crap. I believe that warranty repair by dealers may actually be a line item on their budget with what I have read for the last 6 months or so.
I am hoping I can at least start something to change this situation for future buyers. I'm retired with little else to do! lol
Thanks for the feedback!

PLEASE BE MINDFUL OF THE FORUM RULES:

Customer Disputes
This forum is not intended to be a mechanism for people to solely vent frustrations about services, products, vendors, or sales. Please settle your differences with the seller, provider, manufacturer, or dealer through other means but not through our community.

https://www.keystoneforums.com/forums/misc.php?do=sknetwork&page=rules

You've made your point, we get that you're not satisfied with your trailer, with Keystone and with THOR.. We can't change that for you and rehashing the same complaints over and over won't change your opinion nor will it change ours.

Please let it go, move on to other topics and settle your differences with your dealer, Keystone and THOR elsewhere. This forum is not your mechanism for change.

[chuckster57]

I believe that warranty repair by dealers may actually be a line item on their budget with what I have read for the last 6 months or so!

I can assure you that is absolutely NOT TRUE! What is true is the warranty labor rate and time allowed for the repair is set by the factory. That is the industry standard. I can also assure you that it doesn’t “pay the bills” at any dealership and that is the reason some won’t do them. I don’t know where you read any different, maybe I’m working at the wrong place.

[sourdough]

I can assure you that is absolutely NOT TRUE! What is true is the warranty labor rate and time allowed for the repair is set by the factory. That is the industry standard. I can also assure you that it doesn’t “pay the bills” at any dealership and that is the reason some won’t do them. I don’t know where you read any different, maybe I’m working at the wrong place.


Chuck, your assessment is correct according to every dealer I've talked to around the country. And it's not just Keystone/Thor. Before I bought this trailer I was looking at a GD. Wanted to buy in FL due to a pretty good price but needed it worked on when in TX so talked to the owner of the GD dealership in my neck of the woods. Nope. They only performed warranty work on units they sold because...….they didn't make any money on the repairs and did it as a favor for their customers.....

[debnana]

In 2017 I read lots of online reviews about numerous tt brands. Mostly left scared to buy any trailer...lol. Then we fell in love with the Keystone Bullet Premier. Before purchasing joined this forum and did lots of reading. The good, bad and ugly, repairs, pdi, etc. Finally made purchase from a great local dealer (advise from here). Used for a month - fixed small stuff ourself. Discovered a soft spot in floor in front of door - caused by leak where awning attached to side of trailer. Dealer did a quality repair to floor and awning. I doubt keystone paid them the full value of their great work. Anyway, like a house, there's always "something", so we fix and move on thanks to all the great advise we've found from Chuckster and others. So this grandma's advise is, you can decide to fix, camp, enjoy or.....stay mad and miss out on life's simple pleasures like camping.

[firestation12]

If you are connected to shore power, perhaps you could employ space heaters to protect your plumbing. Hint: though I may grumble about issues of quality or workmanship at times, in the end, I seem to get great self satisfaction in sleuthing, researching and performing an upgrade in conjunction with the fix. Who knows, maybe you'll get labeled as a "McGyver" by your friends in the process. :bow: What we love most about the participants on this forum, is the ideas and positive sharing of information to help each other.

[Big1]

I know it's suck when we pay all of the money and find out that it is not what we would like it to be. Like other I hope that I wouldn't get one that had a lot of problems but we just roll the dice and hope for the best.

I know that it doesn't work out that way but if we do run into a problem we just take a step back and try to get it resolve and when the time it right trade it in and hope you don't get another lemon.