Super Solar Flex

[Fishsizzle]

Anyone heard about this? I wonder if it will trickle down, or perhaps we can use it as a pattern for retrofitting

Seems like an about time idea . But do a lot of people boondock in a Montana?


https://www.keystonerv.com/upper-navigation-pages/community/krv-blog/content-container/super-solarflex/

[GHen]

I did just see that this morning. It’s about time solar was a factory option. The real question is how much is it and is it less expensive to add it after purchase.

[Fishsizzle]

I did just see that this morning. It’s about time solar was a factory option. The real question is how much is it and is it less expensive to add it after purchase.

Yep, I look at the batteries alone and see big bucks

[sourdough]

The little ad says the option is $19,500. Hmmm, yep, I don't boondock anymore!!

[Fishsizzle]

The little ad says the option is $19,500. Hmmm, yep, I don't boondock anymore!!

Wow.............

[GHen]

I actually could see $14,000, maybe.... it’s all top of the line stuff
1000watts of solar
510 amp hour lithium
Battery heaters
60 amp controller charger
3,000 watt inverter
Dual 50amp transfer switches
Energy Management system
Coleman Mach Powersaver A/C

[Fishsizzle]

I actually could see $14,000, maybe.... it’s all top of the line stuff
1000watts of solar
510 amp hour lithium
Battery heaters
60 amp controller charger
3,000 watt inverter
Dual 50amp transfer switches
Energy Management system
Coleman Mach Powersaver A/C

From what I’ve read it’s seems like nice stuff. I haven’t followed up on the solar panels these use. But nice inverter and the ACs are nice

[Camp CA]

Anyone heard about this?............ [/url]

We have the factory-installed Solar Flex and was a good upgrade at a relatively small cost adder vs. Super Soar Flex. Keeps the battery charged and can pre-cool the refrigerator/ freezer prior to and while towing and allows us to boondock when we want.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ltbWLpsIjl4

[McRod]

Anyone heard about this? I wonder if it will trickle down, or perhaps we can use it as a pattern for retrofitting

Seems like an about time idea . But do a lot of people boondock in a Montana?


https://www.keystonerv.com/upper-navigation-pages/community/krv-blog/content-container/super-solarflex/

I boondock exclusively in my Big Sky. In every state in the US.
Boondocking's not just for truck campers and RPOD's! :)

[McRod]

I did just see that this morning. It’s about time solar was a factory option. The real question is how much is it and is it less expensive to add it after purchase.

I have almost that exact system they are promoting on my Big Sky going on 4 years now. My cost to purchase and install was ~$9,500 including 2 soft starts for the ACs.. Only difference in their system is the lithium batteries ( I have 8 x 6V 225AH), but roughly the same usable amps. They also have a transfer switch, which I don't. And they are promoting some system management software. Their marketing makes it seem like it's hard to do, but it's very easy. Connect black wire to black post, red wire to red post!

$20k vs $10k. I dunno. Most who have rigs that size are pavement queens. Those that boondock probably aren't afraid to buy it and self install...

[GaryUT]

I would be happy if the "solar prep" included a weatherproof cable entry box on the roof and a conduit from the box to the storage bay.

[GHen]

McRod, I think you are right on with $9500. If you take the 19,000 list, take your 35% discount off of list when you buy it, install some of it yourself and back off a little on the high end components and it can be done under 10 grand pretty easy.

[Fishsizzle]

Thanks for input.

The batteries are probably $1k each and switch plus labor pushes it a little. The weight savings is huge as well.

I’m not in a position to buy., or boondock anytime soon, even though that might be the only camping available this year!

[moodman]

I have almost that exact system they are promoting on my Big Sky going on 4 years now. My cost to purchase and install was ~$9,500 including 2 soft starts for the ACs..

So, I am wondering about how you use AC with solar. How long can you run AC in moderate temps on battery power?

[moodman]

Retrofitting this system might be easier than you think. The existing 50Amp shore power connector can be spliced to allow power coming from a solar system. Of course, everything has to be beefed up (inverter, number of batteries, disconnect switch, etc.)
But I would also put disconnect switches on heavy power draw circuits, like the microwave, or big TVs. Of course, you can do this just by switching the affected circuit breakers, but in my Montana the circuit breaker panel is in an awkward place.

[GHen]

So, I am wondering about how you use AC with solar. How long can you run AC in moderate temps on battery power?


Some else might do better math than me, but here is my guess.
This is a special AC and is only 1075 watts, I think most AC’s are around 1500 watts. 1075 watts is about 9 amps at 120 volts, I think that’s about 90 amps at 12 volts. The system has 510 usable amps so you would only have about 5 hours of AC use and the batteries would be close to dead. That does not account for the possible 1000 watts of solar recharging while using the ac. The solar will probably average around 50 amps at 12 volts if they have full sun, so that would cut your battery usage in half, or allow you to use the AC for up to 10 hours, if you had full sun.

Ok solar guys, am I close to correct?

[SR71 Jet Mech]

My system is in the $5K range. I also don’t have a transfer switch (I shut off the converter manually), I also have FLA batteries. I will upgrade to lithium’s in the next couple of years.

The biggest problem I find is “full sun” doesn’t yield “full solar output” most of the time. So with my 1100w system most of the time it peaks between 750w and 900w. Still plenty....but.

Once the batteries are charged, I can run one a/c unit most of the day (from after lunch...ish) and it will deplete batteries to around 85-90% and still have time to recharge before I loose sun or ability to charge. I do have a residential fridge and most nights I never drop below 65% SOC. I do carry a 2K champion gen and have an inverter/Charger that will output 85a charging. Usually set it at 60a.

I split my solar into two arrays, one 500w system mounted to the roof, separate Victron mppt, the other is 4 150w (600w) epever mppt. I move around to ensure I’m always able to soak up some sun (portable). Math, the 600w system will output 50a at full song (when available) and the 500 will output roughly 40a.

We run everything from coffee maker to micro, a/c from time to time. WH on propane. I just wish I didn’t have to dump.

I too am looking at something different for a/c to save some current. Have a couple ideas, not sure yet what I’m gonna do. Hasn’t been a huge issue to this point. Just something to play with.

[GHen]

SR71, what is your battery setup?

[Steve d]

two used 300 watt 40 volt residential panels 150.00
one used 40 amp Tracer controller w/remote monitor 75.00
25 ft 10ga solar wire ( Ebay ) 29.00
aluminum 2" angle for solar brackets 31.00
two group 31 12 volt 120 ah fla batteries 280.00
convert to all led lighting (36 lights) 48.00
one used 150 watt full sine inverter for TV 28.00
_______
641.00 total
29 ft Cougar fifth wheel
Heat with a 6000btu Olympic Wave
Never see batteries below 12.25v soc using 43" TV and lights
5 hrs a 12v cpap all night.
Microwave, DW hairdryer and AC use the Yamaha 2800 inverter generator
one at a time for very short period of time. (Annoying)

[McRod]

So, I am wondering about how you use AC with solar. How long can you run AC in moderate temps on battery power?

I don't run ACs from batteries. I run them from backup generator. It's almost pointless to build that capacity for a single use.

If you look close at that pic I posted you can see my 50amp cable on back of RV running forward under RV to generator under RV in middle driver's side.

[McRod]

Some else might do better math than me, but here is my guess.
This is a special AC and is only 1075 watts, I think most AC’s are around 1500 watts. 1075 watts is about 9 amps at 120 volts, I think that’s about 90 amps at 12 volts. The system has 510 usable amps so you would only have about 5 hours of AC use and the batteries would be close to dead. That does not account for the possible 1000 watts of solar recharging while using the ac. The solar will probably average around 50 amps at 12 volts if they have full sun, so that would cut your battery usage in half, or allow you to use the AC for up to 10 hours, if you had full sun.

Ok solar guys, am I close to correct?

Its not a special AC. It's simply a soft start capacitor on the AC. Takes less than 30 mins to install for your average DIYer.

Go to this link to read about soft starts for AC. Easy start. (https://www.microair.net/collections/easystart-soft-starters/products/easystart-364-3-ton-single-phase-soft-starter-for-air-conditioners?gclid=CjwKCAjw7e_0BRB7EiwAlH-goPIaZ1QOpdZP5KZzns1uusTdrrYFwQa6JoYsaKY7O5H0iUw1C jlo8xoCiWEQAvD_BwE)

[GHen]

Its not a special AC. It's simply a soft start capacitor on the AC. Takes less than 30 mins to install for your average DIYer.

Go to this link to read about soft starts for AC. Easy start. (https://www.microair.net/collections/easystart-soft-starters/products/easystart-364-3-ton-single-phase-soft-starter-for-air-conditioners?gclid=CjwKCAjw7e_0BRB7EiwAlH-goPIaZ1QOpdZP5KZzns1uusTdrrYFwQa6JoYsaKY7O5H0iUw1C jlo8xoCiWEQAvD_BwE)


This is referring to the new AC that are an option on the Montana’s. it include an energy efficient A/c that only draws 10 amps and includes a soft start standard. It’s a “Coleman Mach powersaver”

A standard Coleman Mach AC draws 15 amps even if you add the aftermarket soft start as your suggesting. The savings of the 5 amp in normal cool mode make it easier to power with only a 1000 watts of solar.

[GHen]

(The super solar flex system also has 510 amps of lithium to power the ac through an inverter)

[Fishsizzle]

I’m not sure what battery models, but Dragonfly only lists a few and the biggest is 100 ah. It’s $1090

So for 2 batteries to have 510 from Dragon fly must be an insane amount of money

[GHen]

I’m not sure what battery models, but Dragonfly only lists a few and the biggest is 100 ah. It’s $1090

So for 2 batteries to have 510 from Dragon fly must be an insane amount of money


Your right, the batteries in the package are not listed on the dragonfly website.
Here is a quote I found, the ones in the package are 250ah.


Dragonfly Energy introduces its new LiFePO4 battery – the GC3, which is being featured on a Keystone RV towable for Open House Week. The GC3 is Dragonfly’s new 250AH battery and is being presented in collaboration with RV manufacturer Keystone

[Fishsizzle]

Your right, the batteries in the package are not listed on the dragonfly website.
Here is a quote I found, the ones in the package are 250ah.


Dragonfly Energy introduces its new LiFePO4 battery – the GC3, which is being featured on a Keystone RV towable for Open House Week. The GC3 is Dragonfly’s new 250AH battery and is being presented in collaboration with RV manufacturer Keystone

So you have to imagine this battery set up is $4-5k

[SR71 Jet Mech]

I’m using 4x 6 v 230ah

[McRod]

This is referring to the new AC that are an option on the Montana’s. it include an energy efficient A/c that only draws 10 amps and includes a soft start standard. It’s a “Coleman Mach powersaver”

A standard Coleman Mach AC draws 15 amps even if you add the aftermarket soft start as your suggesting. The savings of the 5 amp in normal cool mode make it easier to power with only a 1000 watts of solar.

Yeah, I read it. It's marketing hype for a soft start capacitor. Add a soft start and you can call it a new fandangled congugalamajig.

The standard AC draws that amperage as it cycles on and off. By adding a soft start that cycling power consumption is reduced by ~67%. Its not a different AC unit. It's the same AC unit with a soft start capacitor. Been around for years now. The RV industry is seeing what people are doing to their RVs and adding them as new options with their marketing spin on it. They didn't reinvent an AC unit.

[McRod]

(The super solar flex system also has 510 amps of lithium to power the ac through an inverter)

Yes, that's a big portion of the added cost. Just my opinion, but the value is not there yet. Lithium is going to continue to change due to demand in EVs. Buying into it now is like buying into laser discs...if you can remember those.

[Fishsizzle]

Yes, that's a big portion of the added cost. Just my opinion, but the value is not there yet. Lithium is going to continue to change due to demand in EVs. Buying into it now is like buying into laser discs...if you can remember those.

Yes, laser disc. Flip it over half way through the movie.

Before all this I was researching batteries from China. It’s where all these “parts” come from. Battle Born and Dragon fly buy all the components from China and “assemble” them in the states.

You could get the whole battery at half the price direct. Not sure I’ll get them anytime soon.

[Fishsizzle]

I’m using 4x 6 v 230ah

I don’t have solar, but I Run 4x6v as Well and have 2x6v for the res fridge, for 6 total batteries. They are Heavy!

[McRod]

Your right, the batteries in the package are not listed on the dragonfly website.
Here is a quote I found, the ones in the package are 250ah.


Dragonfly Energy introduces its new LiFePO4 battery – the GC3, which is being featured on a Keystone RV towable for Open House Week. The GC3 is Dragonfly’s new 250AH battery and is being presented in collaboration with RV manufacturer Keystone

The won't be available until late 2020 according to website. I would expect the cost to be just north of $2k per battery @255 AH.

Renogy sells their 12v 170AH LifePo for $1349. So far that seems to be the best deal/AH on the market.

[Fishsizzle]

The won't be available until late 2020 according to website. I would expect the cost to be just north of $2k per battery @255 AH.

Renogy sells their 12v 170AH LifePo for $1349. So far that seems to be the best deal/AH on the market.

That’s not a bad price given the life span of lithium

Here’s what’s on the backside of the pacific, goto “Alibaba Express” online and enter 250ah Lithium and shop away.

[McRod]

I don’t have solar, but I Run 4x6v as Well and have 2x6v for the res fridge, for 6 total batteries. They are Heavy!

Yes, they are 67lbs ea. I have 8 of them! They run my entire rig on a normal day. I have 2 fridges, microwave, coffee maker, instant pot, toaster, 2 x TV's, heater, and lots of ancillary stuff (lights, water pump, fans,etc).

What kills me with their marketing hype is the lifecycle comparison. They say SLA batteries only last 300 cycles. Mine are getting close to 1200 cycles and I am fully expecting another 300-500 cycles out of them. They've been in my rig since 2016. That's a huge difference in cost/value comparison. It makes you question the other side of the comparison for LifePo being 3000 cycles - is that overhyped?

[McRod]

That’s not a bad price given the life span of lithium

Here’s what’s on the backside of the pacific, goto “Alibaba Express” online and enter 250ah Lithium and shop away.

Yep, there out there. Here is a 250AH for $999 on Amazon. Doesn't have the polish, but for 1/2 the price....

Link (https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07W5NYNBB/ref=cm_sw_r_other_apa_i_stzNEbTATRKEQ)

[McRod]

Yes, laser disc. Flip it over half way through the movie...

That was the first laser disc players...later players you didn't need to flip them. The discs cost about $40 each. Within a decade they got replaced by DVDs at half the cost and a quarter of the size.

[JRTJH]

Yep, there out there. Here is a 250AH for $999 on Amazon. Doesn't have the polish, but for 1/2 the price....

Link (https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07W5NYNBB/ref=cm_sw_r_other_apa_i_stzNEbTATRKEQ)

The battery at your link has a 23% "one star rating". That's nearly 25% of the buyers are not satisfied with their "thousand dollar battery". It may be a "expectation of more for that much money" or it may be "a CHEAP Chinese assembled battery that's inferior"...

I'm not suggesting any reason for the 23% "one star", just pointing out that a LOT of people are not satisfied with that product, for some reason.

[GHen]

It’s interesting to watch the YouTube videos taking the lithium batteries apart. Lots of different construction out there. Some have just one temperature sensor, some have 4. Some with light wiring, some with solid copper straps between cells. And they all have a different types of controller circuit boards inside also.
Lithium Seems like overkill for weekend warriors, but for full timers, week plus boondockers and maybe even hunters out in the woods for a week, maybe. A generator for occasional use seems like more sense for me. I’ll stick with my 6 volt setup.

[McRod]

The battery at your link has a 23% "one star rating". That's nearly 25% of the buyers are not satisfied with their "thousand dollar battery". It may be a "expectation of more for that much money" or it may be "a CHEAP Chinese assembled battery that's inferior"...

I'm not suggesting any reason for the 23% "one star", just pointing out that a LOT of people are not satisfied with that product, for some reason.

Yeah, as I read most of them that gave it one star is because it is rated @255 AH and they are getting 225ish AH. Claim it's over rated. Still good value comparatively speaking. BTW, I wasn't promoting that battery, it was the first one that turned up in my search using the terms suggested above.

That being said, I think if I were to go lithium, this is where I would start. My 8 x 6v 225 golf cart batteries cost $1,100. + Tax and self watering system. That gave me about 450 usable amp hours new. I would say now after 4 years I am close to 80% usable capacity (350ish AH). You can buy the 500AH lithium for $1,850 at the link I provided (expect it to perform in the 450AH range). That's much better value and less risk. I just can't see spending $5k for batteries.

[McRod]

Just for reference for Solid Lead Acid (SLA) batteries, to date I have charged almost 3.5 Megawatt hours into my SLA batteries. That's over a 44 month period. During that time, specifically, at start, I was still using campgrounds electric, so average is going to be a lot lower. Also, when I workcamped last year at Amazon, electricity was provided. My system is only 1000w solar.

Compared to a home that's not much at all. Average full size home uses 914kwh per month! (Source EIA.gov (https://www.eia.gov/tools/faqs/faq.php?id=97&t=3)).

Pays to be green!

[McRod]

It’s interesting to watch the YouTube videos taking the lithium batteries apart. Lots of different construction out there. Some have just one temperature sensor, some have 4. Some with light wiring, some with solid copper straps between cells. And they all have a different types of controller circuit boards inside also.
Lithium Seems like overkill for weekend warriors, but for full timers, week plus boondockers and maybe even hunters out in the woods for a week, maybe. A generator for occasional use seems like more sense for me. I’ll stick with my 6 volt setup.

Generators are the superior charging/power source value. Lithium batteries, (i.e. power source), to me, are still not worth it compared to SLA. The benefits don't outweigh the cons! (Pun intended!)

[Fishsizzle]

Yes, they are 67lbs ea. I have 8 of them! They run my entire rig on a normal day. I have 2 fridges, microwave, coffee maker, instant pot, toaster, 2 x TV's, heater, and lots of ancillary stuff (lights, water pump, fans,etc).

What kills me with their marketing hype is the lifecycle comparison. They say SLA batteries only last 300 cycles. Mine are getting close to 1200 cycles and I am fully expecting another 300-500 cycles out of them. They've been in my rig since 2016. That's a huge difference in cost/value comparison. It makes you question the other side of the comparison for LifePo being 3000 cycles - is that overhyped?


Maybe overhyped some. I guess the weight savings, the ability to drain them down farther (true amp hrs) and the ability to charge them faster is what is the bling to go with the bang