Corona Virus (Covid 19) Related Question

[TG10894]

Roaming in southern FL for 4 more weeks this season. Starting to wonder if there is a chance I will be in an area that gets "quarantined" due to the number of cases, growth rate, etc. Some may say what's not to like about getting stuck in FL, but i really don't want to be stuck somewhere. Any opinions on this scenario? Anyone seen any definitive info on quarantine procedures is the US as it pertains to visitors? This could blow over in a few weeks, but I suspect it will get a lot worse before it gets better.

[flybouy]

If anyone had that knowledge they would be calling a stock broker and getting very rich. If you fear getting "stuck" where you are then I'd suggest moving asap to someplace you wouldn't mind being stuck.

[ctbruce]

Stay out of current hot spots, Seattle, New York City. The others are a crap shoot and like Marshall said no y to predict it.

Best thing to do is to keep social distance and do your part to flatten the curve and slow down spread. And take it serious. This is hyped for sensationalism but is taken seriously by healthcare workers. Follow their lead if you want to know how to react.

[+Ruff Rider]

Sucks to keep to yourself but for the time being it's what we have to do. Just keep hand sanitizer in your pocket and when you touch something that someone else may touch like shopping carts just whip it out. Funny part is you have to touch the outside of the bottle which almost defeats the purpose don't you think?

[sourdough]

Of course the coronavirus "pandemic" may explode but just for reference;

Per the CDC; for the 2018-2019 year influenza stats were 35.5M getting sick with influenza, 16.5M going to a healthcare provider, 490,600 hospitalizations and 34,200 deaths. This is a similar trend from previous years.

For coronavirus there have been 2,950 documented cases and 60 deaths. These are all U.S. numbers.

https://www.cdc.gov/flu/about/burden/2018-2019.html

https://abcnews.go.com/US/coronavirus-live-updates-passengers-stuck-long-lines-airports/story?id=69602911

First quarter of 2020 is almost gone. If we take the above numbers and multiply them by 4 (a year) the numbers we would get for coronavirus are dwarfed, REALLY dwarfed by those of influenza yet the world is not tipping over on its ear, folks being quarantined, panic in the streets etc. Influenza has been with us decades and we deal with it - the same should go for coronavirus instead of this unwarranted, knee jerk panic. For coronavirus to have an impact like influenza it would have to EXPLODE exponentially many times over from the current rate - and then only be on a par with influenza...which we think nothing about. Hmmm, I wonder what IS actually driving this "insanity"....??

[Ken / Claudia]

I just read using Toilet Paper may cause you to get it. You should toss all the hoarded TP if you did that last week.

[Maineiacs]

For coronavirus to have an impact like influenza it would have to EXPLODE exponentially many times over from the current rate - and then only be on a par with influenza...which we think nothing about.


You need to check your math and your research. The virus APPEARS to communicate just a fast and easily as the flu. The death rate from the flu as cited in your figures is .001%. (34,200 out of 35.5M)



The death rate from the novel corona virus as published by the World Health Organization is around 3.5%. That same population of 35.5M sick people could THEORETICALLY expect 1,242,500 deaths.


That's what we're trying to avoid. By reducing exposure to crowds, we can significantly reduce the transmission rate. No need to panic but let's use caution in where we go and what we do.


My 2 cents, obviously your milage may vary!

[chuckster57]

No need to panic but let's use caution in where we go and what we do.


My 2 cents, obviously your milage may vary!

And that there is the main issue IMO...Who to blame for the Fear and panic? This thread isn't the place to discuss it as far as I am concerned.

[Snoking]

Dr Anthony Fauci one of the lead scientist from our government stated on Face the Nation this morning, if you think we are overreacting, that is what we should be doing right now.
"Fauci on coronavirus: "We'll be thankful that we're overreacting"

[sourdough]

My previous post was to cite numbers, not downplay anyone trying to be aware, responsible and take reasonable precautions. The numbers from the WHO have already been debunked but that isn't a conversation that we need to have in an RV forum. I agree with Chuck. We all have our thoughts and need to work through this in whatever fashion we feel is appropriate. It is a subject like politics and religion....no right or wrong and some are very passionate about it; not really for discussion here. With that said, I have said my last on the subject.

[JRTJH]

Just "MY" humble (or not so humble) opinion:

It doesn't matter to me if the death rate is 0.0001% or 90.0001%. If I'm the one sick, in a hospital ICU or the "morgue", it doesn't really matter to my family HOW worried any of you might be"...…

Sounds cold, I know, but COVID-19 is a "personal disease" that affects seniors with co-morbidities much more seriously than it affects younger people or healthier people. Since I'm an "old fart" COVID-19 MIGHT be something I don't want, so I'm taking all the conventional procedures to avoid contact. I wash my hands regularly, try to eat properly, get enough rest, don't get tired (unnecessarily or frequently), stay away from crowds, don't go around "petri dish people" (those that are sick all the time, have toddlers or young school age children). I also stay out of hospitals, clinics, restaurants, "old farts meeting places", etc. I've even decided to stay away from church for the time being. I've no doubt they'll get their money some way other than the "sunday morning collection plate" ….

So, for those who are in a "fill your pants" panic, I'd suggest a "chill pill"... be smart, not frantic. For those who are "immortal", good for you, stay away from me while you take those unnecessary chances. And, for those who are trying to avoid risks, the fourm is an ideal place for "communicating without contaminating"..... YMMV

[Snoking]

Thanks for a sane view of the issue. If millions die a lot of people will have to eat crow the rest of their lives. Chris

[flybouy]

John, since I can't find an "elbow bump" emoji I'll just wave. :wave:

[sourdough]

I said I would not comment on this again, but, I've spent the last 2 hours listening to the doctor channel on SiriusXM (121) and I would highly recommend anyone interested in this to give it a try for a while. It has various segments but some are highly enlightening including psychiatrists that explain why folks are panic buying and "fear for the worst" without rationalization.

Their mantra, as should everyone's IMO, is to do the commonsense stuff of handwashing, covering your mouth if you are coughing, don't keep putting your hands on your face, and my favorite, stay at least 5' away from folks. Went to Walmart in the "city" this afternoon and it actually wasn't too hard to just stay away from folks. Sanitize your hands, if you can; seems everyone is sold out of it. You can use alcohol I suppose and make your own. Personally I stay far away from children - I have caught more colds and flu from my grandkids than I ever had in my normal life. Something else I would throw out that has worked miracles for me - my "wonder drug" so to speak - is vitamin C. I take 1000mgs every morning and if I feel like I'm getting sick I up it to 5000mgs a day until I don't feel sniffles, stuffy etc. I haven't been sick in at least 15 years since I've started the regimen...it has been unbelievable to me but I have been with folks that were exposed to the same things I have been, felt the same onset, began my increased regimen, didn't get sick and they did multiple times. I also take 400mg of vitamin E every morning. Took a long time to get my wife to believe me but I've got her doing it now and she is a believer as well. May not work for anyone else but has been a Godsend to me.

Like John, it matters not to me the death rate percentage, if it is me then it is me. Anyone else's worries over the issue is irrelevant. What I did or didn't do won't even be important at that point. What will happen is anyone's guess. Weakened immune systems, age, bad health, smoking etc. etc. (John outlined many things to help avoid it) will make you more vulnerable to the fatal possibilities...just like the flu.

We are on the front end of this thing but by all accounts if we do what we've been told (listed above as well as John's post), stop hoarding supplies so that everyone can have the needed commodities and use common sense this will pass. Today it was shared that this is a "weak" virus and can be killed easily in our environment - we just have to take those precautions. It is very much like the flu in that most cases are mild; the weak, very young and old are the ones susceptible. Minimize your risks/exposure. If you feel it appropriate, self quarantine. If you feel sick by all means PLEASE stay home.

One post said that if millions died a lot of folks would have to "eat crow" the rest of their lives. I'm not sure why. Millions have died from influenza and I don't know of anyone "eating crow". We just do the best we can and follow all the best practices; after that it's up to God.

[travelin texans]

I said I would not comment on this again, but, I've spent the last 2 hours listening to the doctor channel on SiriusXM (121) and I would highly recommend anyone interested in this to give it a try for a while. It has various segments but some are highly enlightening including psychiatrists that explain why folks are panic buying and "fear for the worst" without rationalization.

Their mantra, as should everyone's IMO, is to do the commonsense stuff of handwashing, covering your mouth if you are coughing, don't keep putting your hands on your face, and my favorite, stay at least 5' away from folks. Went to Walmart in the "city" this afternoon and it actually wasn't too hard to just stay away from folks. Sanitize your hands, if you can; seems everyone is sold out of it. You can use alcohol I suppose and make your own. Personally I stay far away from children - I have caught more colds and flu from my grandkids than I ever had in my normal life. Something else I would throw out that has worked miracles for me - my "wonder drug" so to speak - is vitamin C. I take 1000mgs every morning and if I feel like I'm getting sick I up it to 5000mgs a day until I don't feel sniffles, stuffy etc. I haven't been sick in at least 15 years since I've started the regimen...it has been unbelievable to me but I have been with folks that were exposed to the same things I have been, felt the same onset, began my increased regimen, didn't get sick and they did multiple times. I also take 400mg of vitamin E every morning. Took a long time to get my wife to believe me but I've got her doing it now and she is a believer as well. May not work for anyone else but has been a Godsend to me.

Like John, it matters not to me the death rate percentage, if it is me then it is me. Anyone else's worries over the issue is irrelevant. What I did or didn't do won't even be important at that point. What will happen is anyone's guess. Weakened immune systems, age, bad health, smoking etc. etc. (John outlined many things to help avoid it) will make you more vulnerable to the fatal possibilities...just like the flu.

We are on the front end of this thing but by all accounts if we do what we've been told (listed above as well as John's post), stop hoarding supplies so that everyone can have the needed commodities and use common sense this will pass. Today it was shared that this is a "weak" virus and can be killed easily in our environment - we just have to take those precautions. It is very much like the flu in that most cases are mild; the weak, very young and old are the ones susceptible. Minimize your risks/exposure. If you feel it appropriate, self quarantine. If you feel sick by all means PLEASE stay home.

One post said that if millions died a lot of folks would have to "eat crow" the rest of their lives. I'm not sure why. Millions have died from influenza and I don't know of anyone "eating crow". We just do the best we can and follow all the best practices; after that it's up to God.
AMEN Danny!
Common sense & simple precautions!
Fear & panic ain't helping!!!!

[Snoking]

Here is an interesting read.

https://medium.com/@tomaspueyo/coronavirus-act-today-or-people-will-die-f4d3d9cd99ca

[JRTJH]

We still don't know how many people have "unreported" cases, so we don't know what we don't know. It's impossible to accept China's statistics, they have over-reported, under-reported, failed to report and double reported so much in the past 8 weeks, that anything they submit is subject to being factual or a flat out lie. Again, we don't know what we don't know.

Nobody that I've read or heard has suggested the "pass fail validity" of any COVID-19 test being used anywhere in the world. We don't know if there is a problem with "false positives" (inaccurate tests that indicate infection) or "false negatives" (inaccurate tests that indicate no infection). Every test will have a "failure rate" and we don't know if South Korea's test is valid, we are, however assuming it is 100% accurate, although we know that's not possible.

As for China, they are reporting containment and falling numbers of new cases. Are they testing them all? or are they (as China has been known to do) manipulating the data by only testing those they suspect are not carriers??? It's a simple way to demonstrate their process works to protect their citizens, even if hundreds are dying every day.... Again, we don't know what we don't know. I'd ask, how much do you "trust" China????

It's so very simple for any country that wants to "manipulate emotion" to create a "false crisis" or to create a "marked improvement" by misrepresenting the statistics that can't be verified.

I'm not accusing any country of doing that, but I wasn't born yesterday and I won't trust China or Iran at face value and having lived in South Korea, I have seen their "engineering standard where 50 story apartment buildings fall in the middle of the night from no apparent reason and I was in country when the bridge fell over the river in Seoul, killing hundreds. The government had no explanation for that failure either.... So, is their COVID-19 test any more accurate than their engineering studies ???

There's far more that we simply don't know about this virus than what we do know. It's a virus, nothing more.

Afraid? No
Worried? No
Concerned? Yes
Taking REASONABLE AND PRUDENT action to protect myself? Yes
Panic? Please don't, it's a waste of effort, breath and energy

That's about all any of us can do, at least until we know more of what we don't know......

[RWRiley]

Forgive for taking the convo in a different direction but, DW and I were just talking that RV'ers might have the safest way to travel. Able to avoid public restrooms, restaurants, and hotel rooms. So we are thinking if we have to go somewhere, hookup the trailer and travel safe(er).

[vampress_me]

Curiosity question for those who are traveling in the southern states. Are the Canadian snowbirds worried at all about getting back north across the border? It came up because a friend’s son is at university in Winnipeg, and they are going to online learning for the rest of the semester. She’s worried about getting up there (and back) if the border is likely to be shut down. My thought was to not worry too much yet because of the number of snowbirds that are down here and will want to get home, but ...?

[JRTJH]

Lynette,

It's "business as usual" at the border checkpoints in Sault Ste Marie and Sarnia.

[sourdough]

Here is an interesting read.

https://medium.com/@tomaspueyo/coronavirus-act-today-or-people-will-die-f4d3d9cd99ca



Might be interesting to someone listening to "stuff" vs real professionals. Here is what 33 year old Tomas, the one this post references, has done in his life...and now he is an expert on coronavirus? I think not, at least for me...just more static and another cause of the confusion and panic...JMO

https://wikiaboutworld.com/tomas-pueyo-biography-biography-wiki/


I said I was out of this conversation but the misinformation is astounding, again IMO.

[JRTJH]

Might be interesting to someone listening to "stuff" vs real professionals. Here is what 33 year old Tomas, the one this post references, has done in his life...and now he is an expert on coronavirus? I think not, at least for me...just more static and another cause of the confusion and panic...JMO

https://wikiaboutworld.com/tomas-pueyo-biography-biography-wiki/


I said I was out of this conversation but the misinformation is astounding, again IMO.

Danny,

I reviewed his credentials and that's why I focused my last post on "we don't know what we don't know". There's far more "sensationalism authors" looking to sell some quick copy to any newspaper or website that will publish it. Most is not worth the effort to flush it down a public toilet. His "graphs and illustrations" are filled with hypotheticals that can't be verified, suppositions of what "might happen" and pretty lines, all headed vertical, even though the data suggest that interventions will slow the spread and none of that is considered (in his graphs).

His "doomsday declaration" is about as "based in science" as his MBA from Stanford University, where he specialized in behavioral psychology, design, storytelling, and script-writing. I wouldn't consider him a medical expert, even in the wildest stretch of imagination.....

[flybouy]

"After moving to America in 2008 for his MBA at Stanford University, where he specialized in behavioral psychology, design, storytelling, and scrip-twriting,Tomas, since then, is passionate about self-development and constant learning."

'Nuff said.

[+Ruff Rider]

Here in California we are quarantined if you are over 65. Seriously this is nuts. 3,200 cases out of 350 million Americans only 3,200 have it. There is panic in homes all across America. We closed wineries restaurants bars they have basically stopped America from being Americans. We have never done this for any virus that has come down the pile. I don't remember a vaccine for the swine flue, sars or any of the other forms of the flu.

[chuckster57]

When did the quarantine start? To my knowledge the only official actions in Ca are closures of schools, and public events.

Edit: it’s my day off so I’m up and watching “Good day Sacramento” they just showed the governor “urging” seniors to stay home not requiring.

[notanlines]

I'm afraid we have a member posting the latest news from his Facebook account....hmmmm?

[hankpage]

"A country boy will survive"

https://www.keystoneforums.com/forums/picture.php?albumid=267&pictureid=6908

[gearhead]

"A country boy will survive"

https://www.keystoneforums.com/forums/picture.php?albumid=267&pictureid=6908

LOL X2.
I sometimes wonder why some of my family moved from the booming metropolis' of Opelousas and Lafayette Louisiana to woods in the Calcaseiu River bottoms. Plenty of fish, wild game, and turn the hogs loose in the woods.
No need to have constant contact with other folks in the city and catch yellow fever or whatever else was floating around. Country boy will survive indeed.

[flybouy]

Here in California we are quarantined if you are over 65. Seriously this is nuts. 3,200 cases out of 350 million Americans only 3,200 have it. There is panic in homes all across America. We closed wineries restaurants bars they have basically stopped America from being Americans. We have never done this for any virus that has come down the pile. I don't remember a vaccine for the swine flue, sars or any of the other forms of the flu.

Looks like a voluntary restriction on seniors..https://www.politico.com/states/california/story/2020/03/15/california-calls-for-all-seniors-to-stay-home-closure-of-bars-and-wineries-9421938
While it is an extreme response, I have to take the "experts" advice on the need for the response. I am not an "expert", nor have I seen any "experts" that have said that what the CDC, WHO, etc. is recommending is in any way unwarranted. While these actions may be disruptive to our everyday lives I would rather have a two week disruption and then resume with a "normal" life as apposed to letting the public go about it's business now and end up with months of disruption with an even grater impact.

While we have never done this for any other virus this isn't "every other virus". I watched one doctor on television last night that I thought made the most sense of the situation. When he was asked about all the "self isolation" and "social distancing" he said "when you're trying to drain a bathtub you don't want to have the water running into it". Made sense to me.

[jsmith948]

Reading some of the previous posts has me wondering: Are the reports of thousands of deaths in Italy fake news?
Those of you thinking this is "just like the flu" are entitled to your opinion but I will err on the side of caution.

[Snoking]

Looks like a voluntary restriction on seniors..https://www.politico.com/states/california/story/2020/03/15/california-calls-for-all-seniors-to-stay-home-closure-of-bars-and-wineries-9421938
While it is an extreme response, I have to take the "experts" advice on the need for the response. I am not an "expert", nor have I seen any "experts" that have said that what the CDC, WHO, etc. is recommending is in any way unwarranted. While these actions may be disruptive to our everyday lives I would rather have a two week disruption and then resume with a "normal" life as apposed to letting the public go about it's business now and end up with months of disruption with an even grater impact.

While we have never done this for any other virus this isn't "every other virus". I watched one doctor on television last night that I thought made the most sense of the situation. When he was asked about all the "self isolation" and "social distancing" he said "when you're trying to drain a bathtub you don't want to have the water running into it". Made sense to me.

As long as you are posting links to Politico you might also want to read this one also.

https://www.politico.com/news/2020/03/16/coronavirus-pandemic-leadership-131540

It helps to understand why people think differently about the pandemic.

[sourdough]

As long as you are posting links to Politico you might also want to read this one also.

https://www.politico.com/news/2020/03/16/coronavirus-pandemic-leadership-131540

It helps to understand why people think differently about the pandemic.


Some things from Politico might be beneficial, others not so much. This is why I said in one of my previous posts that this "episode" with the coronavirus is much like politics....because it is. Some have to have someone to blame, and for some, the government, particularly the current government, are to blame for everything. It serves no purpose.

None of the governments expected a virus to migrate from an animal to humans. None have seen it and thus none are prepared for it. They are doing the best they can dealing with the unknown. A knee jerk, "the sky is falling", kill the world economies (which many would love to see) reaction around the globe would do far more harm than good.

Like the SARS, Ebola and other "it's the end of the world" contagions this too shall pass. In the meantime we all must keep a level, clear head and remain focused on taking care of ourselves and others. Political blame has no place in the solution. So, what can we do as RVers to take care of ourselves and others? That is the question - not what country or leader isn't doing what another group thinks it should be.

[Snoking]

Corona simulator:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/2020/world/corona-simulator/

[dutchmensport]

We were on vacation last week (March 7 through March 15). Our destination was Southern Georgia. We never made it... truck failure that resulted in 3 different tows for Truck and fifth wheel, 2 nights in a motel, and 2 more nights in a KOA campground while the truck was being fixed.

Meanwhile, we have a dog that has cancer, and the impending threat of quarantine in the news. Because of the dog we decided to return home on Thursday and was able to get the dog to our vet on Friday.

In retrospect now, I'm glad we returned home when we did. Although we were at a really nice KOA in Kentucky, and had full hook-ups, and there was a lot of things we could have done in the area, the idea of somehow getting stuck THERE was a bit daunting. If I had to be quarantined, I now know I'd rather be quarantined at home than in a campground.

Don't misunderstand me. I love my camper. We use it at home almost 365 days a year, if not camping, hooked up at home with all utilities. We sleep in it every night, unless it gets down to about 10 degrees or we run through 1 bottle of propane in 2 days or less for heat. So, we really love our camper.

But when faced with the impending reality of being quarantined, we both decided we wanted to be home in familiar surroundings and with all our conveniences at home, access to our familiar doctors and vets, and nearer our family and friends we know best.

[goducks]

Shut the country down with a mandatory quarantine for 14 days. The virus shows it's self within 14 days. Anyone infected would be showing signs of it during the 14 days. They would then be exposed and could get treatment and others could separate from them.
The virus can't live on objects longer than 72 hours max.
This would almost completely stop the spreading,
No flights in out.

It would be tough but much better than this semi social distancing for months.

[sourdough]

Here's sensible information and precautions from United Healthcare:

What you need to know.


The Novel Coronavirus
What you need to know.

Stay informed.
Your health and wellbeing is our number one priority. We want to make sure you have the information and resources you need to stay safe with this new virus.
You may hear it called the novel coronavirus, or COVID-19. The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) believe that the risk of contracting the virus is currently low for most people. Those at higher risk of illness are:
Older adults
People with serious health conditions such as heart disease, lung disease and diabetes
The CDC recommends that those at higher risk take steps such as stocking up on supplies, avoiding crowds and staying home as much as possible. Visit the CDC website to learn more.


How to protect yourself.
Wash hands often with soap and water for 20 seconds.
Avoid touching eyes, nose and mouth with unwashed hands.
Avoid close contact with people who are sick.
Clean and disinfect things you touch often.
Cough or sneeze into a tissue and put tissue in trash.
If possible, stay home when you feel sick

[chuckster57]

Here's sensible information and precautions from United Healthcare:



What you need to know.





The Novel Coronavirus

What you need to know.



Stay informed.

Your health and wellbeing is our number one priority. We want to make sure you have the information and resources you need to stay safe with this new virus.

You may hear it called the novel coronavirus, or COVID-19. The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) believe that the risk of contracting the virus is currently low for most people. Those at higher risk of illness are:

Older adults

People with serious health conditions such as heart disease, lung disease and diabetes

The CDC recommends that those at higher risk take steps such as stocking up on supplies, avoiding crowds and staying home as much as possible. Visit the CDC website to learn more.





How to protect yourself.

Wash hands often with soap and water for 20 seconds.

Avoid touching eyes, nose and mouth with unwashed hands.

Avoid close contact with people who are sick.

Clean and disinfect things you touch often.

Cough or sneeze into a tissue and put tissue in trash.

If possible, stay home when you feel sick

Isn’t this what everybody with an ounce of COMMON SENSE has said from the beginning?

I’m sorry but all this “lock down America” is the typical knee jerk “management by crisis” that I was subject to for like 29 years in my job.

I’m not here to argue with anybody, or say MY thoughts are the only ones, but I don’t intend on doing anything different than I did to avoid the common cold or flu.

[JRTJH]

Reading some of the previous posts has me wondering: Are the reports of thousands of deaths in Italy fake news?
Those of you thinking this is "just like the flu" are entitled to your opinion but I will err on the side of caution.

To "err on the side of caution" is a good thing. I don't think anyone is suggesting that we "not be cautious"... What I see is recommendations from everyone that we "take the problem seriously, take appropriate precautions, not panic and not ignore the problem.

As the New York governor said this morning, we ALL need to develop a sense of personal responsibility and follow the suggested guidelines. He gave an example of closing all the bars in Manhattan so everyone drives to Nassau to get drunk, then drives home. That's NOT the intent of closing bars in one location and introducing both infection in another city but also exposing people to driving drunk as well.

Sometimes, I think people are "our own worst enemy".... It honestly scares hell out of me to consider the homeless populations in San Francisco and Los Angeles (as well as countless other areas) that are "ripe with victims". Limited sanitation, no social distancing, minimal (if any) medical care and known co-morbid health problems. Those areas are ready to become "our Italy".....

As for the question, "Is Italy's problem fake news?" No, but it's unreliable news. We don't know how many positive cases there are (only how many were reported positive/not how they were determined), we don't know how many people who are being reported as "death as a result of" are actually a result of the virus or a result of not treating the virus appropriately. We've got fragments of information to base any decisions and as I said previously, we just don't know what we don't know. That's about the conditions in Italy, the conditions in Iran, the conditions in China and even the conditions in the homeless community in Los Angeles.

As long as people are "going to Nassau to get plastered" then coming home to press the elevator buttons in their apartment building, we haven't contained anything and we're completely vulnerable to "uncontrolled spread" of this disease.... That scares hell out of me, not because of the virus, but because of the irresponsibility of "the immortal ones".....

[sourdough]

Well, just for a twist on this virus in a different direction;

The virus started in Wuhan China. Wuhan has 2 semi secret military bio warfare research centers there. Now, according to a retired intelligence officer I was visiting with this afternoon, here's a scenario to consider;

China was having riots against the government that they couldn't quell. The U.S. has placed severe sanctions on them. The government is unhappy with both situations. They have the bio research centers near Wuhan and a perfect "host" population to start a contagion that would not only let them get control of the riots but also export and "get even"/"punish" those that are punishing them. Far fetched? That wasn't his thinking. Effective? Absolutely - riots are no longer in the news and the US economy is being pummeled. Some would say "a government wouldn't do that to their people!".....anyone with that thought would need to do a little research on Chinese history.

Now, something else to think about!! It is VERY strange the virus started in Wuhan, Wuhan alone, and those facilities are right there. :D

[travelin texans]

There's a country that sums this up acurately, "God is great, beer us good & people are CRAZY!".
To suggest that they shut the entire country down for 14 days is ABSOLUTELY absurd!! This would completely destroy our economy & our whole way if life, not to mention the manpower needed to enforce it.

[sourdough]

Shut the country down with a mandatory quarantine for 14 days. The virus shows it's self within 14 days. Anyone infected would be showing signs of it during the 14 days. They would then be exposed and could get treatment and others could separate from them.
The virus can't live on objects longer than 72 hours max.
This would almost completely stop the spreading,
No flights in out.

It would be tough but much better than this semi social distancing for months.



Aside from the monumental devastation shutting down all aspects of the country for 14 days would do the issue would still be the same and nothing resolved because by far most of the folks that get the virus don't get sick so you wouldn't know plus to know if anyone/everyone had the virus or not they would have to be tested....they don't have the tests. Then, after the country is irreversibly damaged the virus "would be ALMOST completely stopped..." Then what? The whole scenario unfolds again....naw, I like social distancing. :)

[Snoking]

Canada today issues a call for all Canadians out of the country to return. They face a 14 day quaratine on arrival. Our park in AZ shutdown all activities today. I had to return my woodshop monitor keys. Only outside things are available. Pickleball, bumpyball and maybe the swimming pools are among the activities available.

[travelin texans]

Our park also cancelled ALL indoor activities????
The outdoor activities (pool, bocce ball, pickleball, etc.) are still going on without any assistance or sponsorship from the park or it's employees.
The laundry facilities & 1/2 of the public restrooms will still be available??????
Our Canadian friends said they received word that the borders would not close so they can return but are not required to do so at this time, but will be quarantined at home for 14 days when they do return.

[flybouy]

Our park also cancelled ALL indoor activities????
The outdoor activities (pool, bocce ball, pickleball, etc.) are still going on without any assistance or sponsorship from the park or it's employees.
The laundry facilities & 1/2 of the public restrooms will still be available??????
Our Canadian friends said they received word that the borders would not close so they can return but are not required to do so at this time, but will be quarantined at home for 14 days when they do return.

Here's the official link for the Canadian border https://www.cbsa-asfc.gc.ca/menu-eng.html
The US "recommendation" now is no gatherings more than 10 people and maintain 6' separation. The CG may be following whatever authorities govern the state, county, or local authorities are telling them.
Here in Maryland yesterday the governor mandated all restaurants and bars closed with the exception of drive thru and carry out. Also closed the casinos. Constitutionally there are restrictions on what the Federal Government can do, especially when military involvement is concerned. Most of the emergency management is state controlled and the governor of a state must ask the Federal government to send the military or FEMA, and other aid so I would recommend that anyone seeking information should look at the official state website (with a .gov extension) for the state they are in or are going to.

[LHaven]

Here's today's email opportunism. I have mixed feelings about this, because I've been thinking along the same lines myself, but I still think that outright marketing it is tacky...

[Snoking]

In the last two days I have received emails about the coronavirus from:
Columbia Sun RV Resort
Intuit/Turbo Tax
AMA model airplane club
The Exchange
State Farm ins (3)
White House (Many)
Ace Hardware
SiriusXM
OTR Mobile
Consumer Cellular
Southwest Airlines
National Financial Services LLC
The Everett Clinic
Earnhardt CDJR
Verde Ranch RV Resort
and
Our current RV Resort.
and maybe some I missed.

Chris

[Bob R]

In the last two days I have received emails about the coronavirus from:
Columbia Sun RV Resort
Intuit/Turbo Tax
AMA model airplane club
The Exchange
State Farm ins (3)
White House (Many)
Ace Hardware
SiriusXM
OTR Mobile
Consumer Cellular
Southwest Airlines
National Financial Services LLC
The Everett Clinic
Earnhardt CDJR
Verde Ranch RV Resort
and
Our current RV Resort.
and maybe some I missed.

Chris


At least that many and much more has come across my email. If anyone in the world ever had my email they are now using it. A lot of time the message is the same; "stay safe but we will be here if you need us, or need to lighten your wallet a bit" :)

bob

[Northofu1]

Something to think about, it's quite interesting. Could never happen here.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XU9FVqwO4TM

[Snoking]

Danny, Sen. Marsha Blackburn's complaint is a result of how our style of capitalism works in America. We are now a Corporatocracy, and no one seemed to care as this transition occurred over the last 30-40 years. Some have predicted that this was not going to end well! Guess what!

[jsmith948]

Well - I'll run the risk of censure by the "Site Team". I think your statement about people "using my (your) money via welfare/food stamps to make sure I (you) can't have mil, bread, toilet paper, water etc." is just a little out there. Don't look now, but your prejudice is showing. Just sayin'

[sourdough]

No risk of censure here. You, like I, are entitled to our opinions. If you refer to "prejudice" as in biased - I am. I live it and watch it every day - I do the shopping. I will say my choice of wording could have probably been better; don't know that anyone is buying anything to "make sure" others don't have something - it just popped out that way and I don't proof read generally (might have to start :) ).

The "Site Team" works very hard to let everyone voice their opinions and just try to steer things in the right direction. To that end I have edited my post.

[RET.LEO]

In all honesty you're "roaming" is only adding to the problem. What if you are one of the ones who has the virus without symptoms. Your "roaming" will spread the virus to how many more people?
Time to take individual responsibility to help insure the safety of others. Grab a place and stay there or best yet.....stay at home.
Sacrifice a little now or pay the devil later.

[sourdough]

In all honesty you're "roaming" is only adding to the problem. What if you are one of the ones who has the virus without symptoms. Your "roaming" will spread the virus to how many more people?
Time to take individual responsibility to help insure the safety of others. Grab a place and stay there or best yet.....stay at home.
Sacrifice a little now or pay the devil later.



If you are referencing my comments; In all honesty I will roam where I want when I want to get food when there is none on the shelves at the store - along with the hundreds upon hundreds of other folks there. As long as there are those that are afraid that the world is ending, buying up everything they can find in the store to leave nothing for those that are trying to be responsible....you have to do something. Watched a lady yesterday in a Walmart with 2 grocery basket filled to overflowing buying anything and everything she could.....because most of the shelves were empty. As I waited, impatiently, for what seemed like an hour while they checked her out, they finally brought another person over that continually gathered up foodstuffs that she was trying to check out and took them off because she was trying to hoard items....good on Walmart.

My wife and I live alone, we visit virtually no one, so I am the one that's going to get exposed not vice versa. IF we had been doing what I normally do just prior to this "event" my pantry would have been stocked full, I would have had enough paper goods to last 6 mos. etc. but DW had insisted we use it all down and not restock....so here I am. I even tried placing orders to go pick up.....they don't even bring anything out because they don't have the items. So, I'm not sure what your answer is for you, but for me, I'll do what I have to do.

[jimborokz]

Well, we are at our winter holdup in GA. We had planned to spend Easter in SC with our grand daughter but it looks like that is going to be out. Right now our county just north of Atlanta is ranked no. two in the state and NY is pretty much closed down, along with IL, CA and Conn. Last week I joked it may be till Aug before we get home but now that is looking more real. We had planned to head home 1st of May. All is up in the air. Fortunately we are at a private location and will just stay here till this passes. We are keeping distance from all, attending church online and shopping only for groceries. We eat out a bit but only order online and pick up in the drive through. Two of our three kids are teachers and schools are all closed and all three are working online from home. All this may seem extreme but I just saw that 800 died in Italy yesterday. If we can avoid that these measures will seem reasonable.
many of us are in the high risk, upper age category so be smart.
I'll just say, stay isolated, stay safe.

[TG10894]

LOL! If I had any extra, I would paper some trees with it.

[TG10894]

As of 3/22, we are back home in SC. We were in a beautiful park in Bradenton (Cortez), FL when we decided to leave. They had closed the beaches, restaurants, and bars. That was ok, but what clinched it was getting word that some RV parks had been closed in the keys by local authorities because "they wanted to move the tourist out" of the area. We did not want to get caught in a max exodus, so we decided to leave on our own terms. I did not wanted to be trapped in an area if someone in my family elsewhere got sick and needed help, or if I got sick and could get out. My wife would rather bury me than try to pull a trailer with my truck. :D

Thanks for all of the input, and please take this seriously. Italy had nearly 900 people die yesterday. The trajectory on this is still unknown, but comparisons to the standard flu are misguided. Many people have some level of immunity to the flu. This will eventually impact nearly everyone on the planet. It has nearly stopped the world in only 3-4 months. :ermm:

[RET.LEO]

If you are referencing my comments; In all honesty I will roam where I want when I want to get food when there is none on the shelves at the store - along with the hundreds upon hundreds of other folks there. As long as there are those that are afraid that the world is ending, buying up everything they can find in the store to leave nothing for those that are trying to be responsible....you have to do something. Watched a lady yesterday in a Walmart with 2 grocery basket filled to overflowing buying anything and everything she could.....because most of the shelves were empty. As I waited, impatiently, for what seemed like an hour while they checked her out, they finally brought another person over that continually gathered up foodstuffs that she was trying to check out and took them off because she was trying to hoard items....good on Walmart.

My wife and I live alone, we visit virtually no one, so I am the one that's going to get exposed not vice versa. IF we had been doing what I normally do just prior to this "event" my pantry would have been stocked full, I would have had enough paper goods to last 6 mos. etc. but DW had insisted we use it all down and not restock....so here I am. I even tried placing orders to go pick up.....they don't even bring anything out because they don't have the items. So, I'm not sure what your answer is for you, but for me, I'll do what I have to do.

I was referring to the original poster...maybe you didn't read it? LOL!!!
As far as your comment "My wife and I live alone, we visit virtually no one, so I am the one that's going to get exposed not vice versa"
That's only half correct. As soon as you come into proximity of a infected person or a place where a infected person has touched depending on the material it could be three days. You or the other person may not have any symptoms but the risk of catching it from each other is the same.
If as you were at Walmart with "along with the hundreds upon hundreds of other folks there" then you have potentially been exposed to it by each person you came into proximity with and everything that they touched that you touch also. That's just the way pandemics work.
As far as being afraid..... there's no point. I survived 17 years L.E. Hit by a car, 11 surgeries, two strokes, heart surgery. I was born with a compromised immune system so I hit all the boxes. I know that I am at higher risk of getting it but the other side of the coin is if I'm exposed I am at higher risk of passing it.
I'm fortunate that I have kids that will shop for me if needed along with a couple of other neighbors who we have agreed to provide food for each other if one gets the virus.
Common sense, planning for the possible worse if needed and time......this too will pass.

[sourdough]

I agree that we all need to follow requested protocols for slowing down this virus. What we don't need to do, but many, if not most are, is getting hysterical about it cleaning out stores etc. Talked to a store manager yesterday and she just grinned wryly and said "these folks come in here and clean out the shelves to hoard then complain because there's nothing in the store". They are stocking more than they have before, with more trucks coming per week, but can't keep up because people are being silly.

In another vein; for those inclined to "go off the deep end buying up food stuffs", keep this in mind (I know it has been said not to compare this to influenza but not sure why we shouldn't at this point) - in 2018 there were 61,000 US deaths due to influenza (cdc). Covid-19 has caused 323 thus far (thru Sat.). To just be as dangerous as influenza it has really got to get a LOT worse than it has been so far. Those with symptoms from the illness totaled 45,000,000 in 2018, 32,356 so far with this.

Yes, we don't have a vaccine which is worrisome and could be extremely problematic in the future if we don't take precautions to keep from spreading it, but, at this moment in time, it has not devastated this population nor caused a reason for anyone to empty a grocery store. I will say this; just went out to a small, rural, abandoned community outside town the other day (alone, in the boonies). Toured the graveyard; entire families were buried side by side; babies, mom/dad, teens. Found out it was a flu epidemic in 1918. So, if we don't have a means to fight this thing we have to do everything we can to prevent the spread. Then, if the worst happens, do what we do and persevere. Here is a link that might be interesting to some - it was to me after touring that graveyard -

https://www.cdc.gov/flu/pandemic-resources/1918-pandemic-h1n1.html

[ctbruce]

No one can definitively say how Covid-19 is spread. Therefore, your only option is to do everything to protect yourself and social distance at approximately 6 feet. Just walking into Walmart, even if someone is positive there, would not automatically infect you. You would have to come into contact with them or into contact with something else they touched. Then introduce that touch to your mucous membranes (eyes, nose, mouth).

So......wash your hands with soap and water for 20 seconds, don't pick your nose without washing before and after, don't touch your face without washing your hands first.

[rodgebone]

sourdough Of course the coronavirus "pandemic" may explode but just for reference;

Per the CDC; for the 2018-2019 year influenza stats were 35.5M getting sick with influenza, 16.5M going to a healthcare provider, 490,600 hospitalizations and 34,200 deaths. This is a similar trend from previous years.

For coronavirus there have been 2,950 documented cases and 60 deaths. These are all U.S. numbers.

https://www.cdc.gov/flu/about/burden/2018-2019.html

https://abcnews.go.com/US/coronaviru...ry?id=69602911

First quarter of 2020 is almost gone. If we take the above numbers and multiply them by 4 (a year) the numbers we would get for coronavirus are dwarfed, REALLY dwarfed by those of influenza yet the world is not tipping over on its ear, folks being quarantined, panic in the streets etc. Influenza has been with us decades and we deal with it - the same should go for coronavirus instead of this unwarranted, knee jerk panic. For coronavirus to have an impact like influenza it would have to EXPLODE exponentially many times over from the current rate - and then only be on a par with influenza...which we think nothing about. Hmmm, I wonder what IS actually driving this "insanity"....??

i couldnt agree more. the common flu is WAY worse. this is all due to media sensationalism causing people to panic creating knee jerk policy from govt officials. it will get worse in the coming months but i doubt it will infect or kill as many as the common flu does every year. this irresponsible and unwarranted reporting

[sourdough]

I was referring to the original poster...maybe you didn't read it? LOL!!!
As far as your comment "My wife and I live alone, we visit virtually no one, so I am the one that's going to get exposed not vice versa"
That's only half correct. As soon as you come into proximity of a infected person or a place where a infected person has touched depending on the material it could be three days. You or the other person may not have any symptoms but the risk of catching it from each other is the same.
If as you were at Walmart with "along with the hundreds upon hundreds of other folks there" then you have potentially been exposed to it by each person you came into proximity with and everything that they touched that you touch also. That's just the way pandemics work.
As far as being afraid..... there's no point. I survived 17 years L.E. Hit by a car, 11 surgeries, two strokes, heart surgery. I was born with a compromised immune system so I hit all the boxes. I know that I am at higher risk of getting it but the other side of the coin is if I'm exposed I am at higher risk of passing it.
I'm fortunate that I have kids that will shop for me if needed along with a couple of other neighbors who we have agreed to provide food for each other if one gets the virus.
Common sense, planning for the possible worse if needed and time......this too will pass.



Sorry, I had read the original post...just not reread it. And I agree with you and think we are on the same page. Unfortunately we don't have anyone to shop for us....that's me, and I tried using the order on the internet then pick up thing....useless. Drove 50 miles yesterday after placing an order I thought they had the items I wanted....pretty small list but unavailable here; made the drive (in a driving rainstorm), sat in the parking lot for 30 minutes and a fellow came out and said he was sorry but they didn't have the items!! Told him it would have been nice for the "system" to tell me it was unavailable instead of jumping thru hoops then find everything was out of stock. So, went to Walmart; parking lot packed as far as you can see - completely crazy. As you said, we all have to do our best to minimize contacts....if we can. Good luck to you and, as you observed, this too shall pass.

[LHaven]

Just walking into Walmart, even if someone is positive there, would not automatically infect you. You would have to come into contact with them or into contact with something else they touched.

Which, in WalMart, means pretty much everything on the shelves. And that's not even mentioning the stockboys. :facepalm:

[LHaven]

i couldnt agree more. the common flu is WAY worse. this is all due to media sensationalism causing people to panic

I'm hooked into a mailing list of immunology pros at MIT, and they keep making the valid point that it's not meaningful to rely on comparisons between an entire year's morbidity/mortality figures for a common flu, and the figures that right now only cover the very earliest stages of this one. We don't know how long this one is going to last, and how many it will take in the next 12 months (or would if we were't reacting as we are)..

[Northofu1]

Some interesting stats
https://informationisbeautiful.net/visualizations/covid-19-coronavirus-infographic-datapack/

[sourdough]

Some interesting stats
https://informationisbeautiful.net/visualizations/covid-19-coronavirus-infographic-datapack/



Very interesting and enlightening, I hope for some. The last box points out why there is so much hysteria. Not saying it could not, and will not, get worse, but absolutely nothing to warrant the media trying to blow this completely out of proportion and to run the sheeples off the edge of a cliff (whichever one that might be)...and they are doing a good job.

Established facts are good; definitive, practical medical advice is good; using inflated hyperbole ("carving a path of death across the country") is not only unwarranted but dangerous...as we are seeing. Those at risk are put far more at risk by this kind of sensationalism....meaningless drivel to me. Facts; look at the facts. Take precautions; be careful.

Be thoughtful of those around you. Think about the population more at risk; do you really need to buy those 2 30 pack rolls of toilet paper (limit) for the 3rd time today to make sure others, who are trying to be responsible, must come to the store time and again, exposing themselves, just to get a package? This is happening around the country and I cannot fathom why except people feel fear of the unknown. If that's the case I can't imagine how they could ever walk out their door, get in a vehicle and drive.

Sorry....just got back from another depressing trip to the store to try to find milk....did find some brand of peanut butter I never heard of though....last jar.

[Rosendale]

Curiosity question for those who are traveling in the southern states. Are the Canadian snowbirds worried at all about getting back north across the border? It came up because a friend’s son is at university in Winnipeg, and they are going to online learning for the rest of the semester. She’s worried about getting up there (and back) if the border is likely to be shut down. My thought was to not worry too much yet because of the number of snowbirds that are down here and will want to get home, but ...?

I am Canadian and understand all Canadians can come home, however, have to self quarantine for 2 weeks once here, if infected longer

[travelin texans]

Heard today that some of the TP hoarders are now trying to return some of their stockpiled paper in exchange for groceries or refunds, fortunately stores are saying "no way".

[RET.LEO]

sourdough

i couldnt agree more. the common flu is WAY worse. this is all due to media sensationalism causing people to panic creating knee jerk policy from govt officials. it will get worse in the coming months but i doubt it will infect or kill as many as the common flu does every year. this irresponsible and unwarranted reporting

In full agreement!!!! :bow:
The media is in full swing on a two week rant as they usually do. If it's not the President it's this virus.......... a couple of major networks are really practicing "yellow journalism" and are exaggerating this for sensationalism.

Yes, it is severe but creating and feeding people's fears accomplishes nothing.
All they have done is scare people, create panic on the Stock Exchange Floor that cost a lot of 401K's to lose tens of thousands. I have lost the price of a new Class C because of it. It will take a while for things to turn around (and it will) but in the meantime I'm not panicking.......... my contributions are buying stocks at a bargain basement price.

[jimborokz]

Some real facts to ease the panic.
I just watched NY's governor on his daily news conference. NY has the most cases and is also doing the most testing, 16,000 per day. That may mean it has the most stats.
They now have over 22,000 confirmed cases and 157 deaths. That calculates to under .1% fatality rate, similar to normal flu levels.
The thing to remember is we all have antibodies for the flu, but the only people with antibodies for Covid 19 are people that have had it and recovered. That means this is much more contagious than the flu. So we need to still more than ever practice isolation from one another. Call it social distancing, staying in place, hiding, what ever. Just do it.

[jsmith948]

I wonder if they are cooking the books. The mortality rate is 1.2 percent here but 4.3 percent worldwide.

[Ken / Claudia]

A point no one was brought up in the media. The homeless/druggies/mentally ill. Include the illegal drug trade. Those will not follow rules no matter what happens. The homeless will travel anywhere they want, sleep, eat, buy and do drugs with anyone. In the cities they are much like rats. Many do not see them, but know their around. They use many of the same restrooms, sidewalks,parks,hiking trails,restaurants, stores,businesses etc etc. as regulator citizens. They will be brought into the same medical places as you and your family. How fast will the flu spread through a homeless shelter? and back into the streets.
Time will tell how bad that group affects the rest of the country. I fear they will keep the problem going around longer than we think or have been told.

[jimborokz]

I wonder if they are cooking the books. The mortality rate is 1.2 percent here but 4.3 percent worldwide.

So you are saying there are over 1500 deaths and they are hiding that fact?

[Ken / Claudia]

Just to add on to bad news, not many are saying this. Police are not to contact anyone unless it is a call for help through 911. That means no traffic enforcement, not much investigative work. If bad guys are caught doing criminal stuff, only the worst of the worst offenders will be taken to jail. All others released at the scene.
That's here in Oregon by order, I doubt your state is much different, but not talked about.

[dutchmensport]

Well, it's been 8 days since this thread started. A lot has happened since then. NY, CA, and WA are in a lock-down mode. My daughter lives in Hawaii, and she pinged us this morning saying Hawaii is now in lock-down "Shelter in place". Indiana just announced a "Shelter in place" order beginning Wednesday 3/25. Someone said they couldn't believe the Gov't could or would shut down everything. So, after 8 days, we are not seeing any improvements in our situation. Things are only getting tougher. Grocery stores are actively rationing the amount of items one can buy. That hasn't happened since World War 2, long before most of us were even alive.

Fact or fiction about the virus, believe what you may or not, threat or not, but the reality is, our world is locking down on us fast now and these changes are affecting our former way of life. This we cannot deny.


This is a magnificant opportunity for each of us to show kindness, love, and compassion for each other. To pray for one another, to reach out to each other, and to help each other as we are able. If in the end, we all die anyway and there's nothing we could have done to prevent that, it would be nice to come face-to-face with my maker and see he has a smile when I stand in front of him, instead of him frowning at me!

[ctbruce]

Well, it's been 8 days since this thread started. A lot has happened since then. NY, CA, and WA are in a lock-down mode. My daughter lives in Hawaii, and she pinged us this morning saying Hawaii is now in lock-down "Shelter in place". Indiana just announced a "Shelter in place" order beginning Wednesday 3/25. Someone said they couldn't believe the Gov't could or would shut down everything. So, after 8 days, we are not seeing any improvements in our situation. Things are only getting tougher. Grocery stores are actively rationing the amount of items one can buy. That hasn't happened since World War 2, long before most of us were even alive.



Fact or fiction about the virus, believe what you may or not, threat or not, but the reality is, our world is locking down on us fast now and these changes are affecting our former way of life. This we cannot deny.





This is a magnificant opportunity for each of us to show kindness, love, and compassion for each other. To pray for one another, to reach out to each other, and to help each other as we are able. If in the end, we all die anyway and there's nothing we could have done to prevent that, it would be nice to come face-to-face with my maker and see he has a smile when I stand in front of him, instead of him frowning at me!It will get worse and quickly because these things grow exponentially, not linearly. For example, see Italy death rate.

[Northofu1]

Here's a running count worldwide. Updates daily.
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/
Ontario just declared all nonessential business' to close. Premier doesn't want to use force.

[JRTJH]

It will get worse and quickly because these things grow exponentially, not linearly. For example, see Italy death rate.

Not to make comparisons, but if you look at Italy's ICU wards and compare them to the USA's ICU rooms, there's a world of difference in "state funded health care and private health care".... Italy is "in over their head" in many situations ranging from running hot and cold water in every home to smoking/alcohol use as a contributing factor to overall health. There's a reason wine is served (rather than water) with Italian meals.

Yeap, Michigan's Governor announced a "mandatory/self-imposed" shelter in place order that becomes effective at midnight tonight. In her release, she stated, "The number of cases is growing exponentially". In just one week the number of positive cases has grown from 0 to over 1,000... Clearly omitted from that statement is the fact that Michigan did not start testing until "the last 7 days"... So, while the number of positive cases is growing, to make the "inference" that it's grown to over 1000 when there was no means to know how many there were "before testing started" is disingenuous at best and pandering with statistics to increase emotional impact.

Why can't politicians simply stick to the facts and stop trying to "carve that path of death and destruction across our nation"..... :banghead:

[goducks]

It will get worse and quickly because these things grow exponentially, not linearly. For example, see Italy death rate.

Italy did nothing at the onset. Italy is roughly the size of New Mexico.
60M people live in Italy.
If you put all the people that live in CA, NY and NM in NM you'd have Italy.
Fortunately the US is spread out, unfortunately we have huge cities with dense populations.

[Bob R]

Italy did nothing at the onset. Italy is roughly the size of New Mexico.
60M people live in Italy.
If you put all the people that live in CA, NY and NM in NM you'd have Italy.
Fortunately the US is spread out, unfortunately we have huge cities with dense populations.

Italy also has a high population of Chinese who work in the garment industry and a lot of them and their families travel back and forth pretty much as they want. Also add to that approximately 4 million Chinese visitors to Italy every year.

Then let's get into health care, comparing Italy's healthcare to the US healthcare is like comparing apples to T10 top loaders. It just isn't the same.

And finally, Italy has the WORST nurse to patient ration of any country in the EU. When nurses here go on strike for better conditions the number 1 thing is almost always better nurse to patient ratio. We know that having an adequate number of Nurses will lower the mortality rate. So whenever your local Nurses try to get better staffing ratios you should be there supporting them, after all you are the ones they take care of.

bob

[dutchmensport]

....

Why can't politicians simply stick to the facts and stop trying to "carve that path of death and destruction across our nation"..... :banghead:

Just like the new media, it's called "sensationalism". Everyone want to be the first to spread news that will "shock" everyone and everything. Statistics are always misleading and skewed to support whoever has the most sensationalism to gain by them.

I really appreciated the President's message yesterday when he said, One out of every 10 people who are tested have the virus. He then quickly turned that around and said, Nine out of 10 people do not. These are the ones who are actually getting tested. What he was saying, in essence was, a lot of people are wanting to get tested when they really don't need to (yet).

Now, take that percentage. Which side are you on:

10 percent of all tested are found positive with the virus.

90 percent of all tested are found negative for the virus.

Now spin that on the news, by politicians, and which side do you think they'll spin! Yea, the 10% and they'll spin it real good to create anxiety and fear and sensationalism. Not a word is said about the other 90%.

That's why the President's statement about the 10% and the 90% impressed me so much. He stated the FACT, not the anxiety!

Well, anyway, be kind to each other. This thing will pass. Enjoy the benefits and blessings and look for the good in everything. (In spite of the doom and gloom, there really are some good things coming out of this).

The angels said to the shephards at the birth of Jesus, "Fear not!" and I think those words are still good for us today!

[jsb5717]

Oregon's governor also just ordered Shelter in Place. All non-essential businesses, also now including all state parks, are closed.

[SummitPond]

It will get worse and quickly because these things grow exponentially, not linearly. For example, see Italy death rate.

I don't remember enough statistics to fill a thimble, but I am impressed that the exponential growth is still demonstrated by the data based on the limited amount of testing that has been and is currently occurring.

Do you know why this is still showing this trend?

I would have thought (dangerous, I know) that limited testing would not show the expected exponential trend. Is it really worse than what the data is showing?

[ctbruce]

If you really want to nerd out and see how exponential growth will increase the number of infections, go to the link.

Interesting stuff.

https://youtu.be/Kas0tIxDvrg

[Roscommon48]

if you are worried, don't go. no one knows what will be happening.



If you do go just plan on staying in one spot for a while.


As for the mention of Canadians, they are heading back to their country as I see everyday down here in Tucson.

[SummitPond]

If you really want to nerd out and see how exponential growth will increase the number of infections, go to the link.

Interesting stuff.

https://youtu.be/Kas0tIxDvrg

Really good discussion, as well as a companion link (https://www.keystoneforums.com/forums/showthread.php?p=382866#post382866) in another thread here on the forum.

Thanks.

[travelin texans]

if you are worried, don't go. no one knows what will be happening.



If you do go just plan on staying in one spot for a while.


As for the mention of Canadians, they are heading back to their country as I see everyday down here in Tucson.

The Canadians in our park are saying they are not ordered to return, but are limited by their health coverage should they become COVID statistics while here. Friends said if they left Canada before 3-13 they were covered by their out of country insurance, if left after that, most likely were not allowed, their insurance would cover them for everything but COVID 19. So they can stay here & enjoy the nice warm sunshine or go home & sit in house watching it snow staring at one another.

[SummitPond]

Newspaper article:

The Elkhard Truth: Thor, Winnebago shut down production (https://www.elkharttruth.com/elkhart_county/winnebago-shuts-down-production/article_ab71f30d-7099-573f-8bae-c5a7347a8332.html)

<excerpt>
Thor is the largest employer in Elkhart County. Its subsidiaries include Keystone RV and Jayco.

...

Thor announced the temporary suspension of all of its production in North America after several state governments, including Indiana and Ohio, where Thor has a substantial number of production facilities, declared statewide emergencies requiring residents to stay at home except for limited circumstances.