Newby towing

[Dogrich1]

I am new at towing and know nothing about it. I am looking to tow a 2017 COUGAR X-LITE 28SGS Fifth Wheel. We have a 2009 F150 With towing pkg. All the stuff I read is confusing...can someone explain this to me...in plain english! lol

[jsb5717]

First, welcome aboard. You'll find a lot of experience and knowledgeable help here.

There are a lot of threads here discussing towing weights, etc. The place to start is the yellow sticker in the door jamb of your truck. That will tell you the payload capacity of your truck. Basic tow ratings are irrelevant. It's mostly about how much weight you can put ON your truck, not how much weight your truck can pull

You will also need to know the GVWR of your trailer. It appears that yours is 10,000 lbs (empty weights mean nothing, use loaded weights only). 20% of your GVWR is 2000 lbs. That's approximately how much pin weight you will load onto the back of your truck. Add in total people, pets, gear, hitch...anything else you are loading into the truck. 2000 lbs plus everything else is the approximate weight you will be carrying. Does your truck give you that much payload weight allowance?

Typically your trailer will need a minimum of a 3/4 ton truck to pull safely and comfortably. You don't want to experience the white knuckle driving that many here have experienced.

[Northofu1]

What Jeff said.
I have just purchased a Cougar Xlite as well, the 29 RET, it too has a GVWR of 10,000 lbs.
I wouldn't have considered it in my GMC 1500. I think the 2500 will tow it nicely.

[Dogrich1]

GCWR is 15500 on my truck. GVWR for truck is 7200 How do I get the Load capacity? Curb weight is 3291 would Load Capacity be the dif between curb and GVWR?

[sourdough]

You need to look at the sticker inside the driver door. It will give you payload and gross axle weight ratings. Post those. You need to recheck that curb weight; don't know I've ever seen an F150 that only weighed 3291....maybe a Ford Ranger?? My last 1/2 ton was 5300 lbs. +/-

[Eastham]

Carrying capacity is on the driver's door jam on a yellow sticker.

[Dogrich1]

Yep...I messed up on that...curb weight is 5670......payload...1530... :(

[JRTJH]

I got it I think...I found this .... "The payload capacity is total amount of stuff your truck can carry. Payload capacity can be simply calculated by subtracting curb weight from GVWR. For example, your truck’s GVWR is 7200 lbs and your truck’s curb weight is 3291 lbs. Its load capacity would be 3909 lbs. This is the weight your truck can safely carry."

Your truck weighs SIGNIFICANTLY more than 3291 pounds empty (my DW's Edge weigh over 4200 pounds). It's closer to 5291 pounds. Typical payload (found in the yellow box on the decal located on the driver's door post) is around 1400-1700 pounds.

As a "heads up" I have a 2014 Cougar XLite 27RKS, about 1000 pounds lighter than the 28SGS and my trailer pin weight is around 1800 pounds, add 150 for the hitch, 150 for my DW, 50 for the generator and 50 for the tonneau cover and I'm working with a payload of roughly 2200 pounds BEFORE I put my butt in my seat....

Your 2009 F150 won't have the payload to carry that trailer even if the "numbers" say it has the capacity to tow it.

[sourdough]

OP you were headed in the right track on calculating, just had the wrong numbers. A 1/2 ton is pressed with a larger bumper pull and most (except for a tiny few) 5th wheels are beyond their capacity. It can be disappointing but you might look at bumper pulls that would fit. I pulled one that had me about 200 over on my payload with my last 1/2 ton and it was not fun....but it was about 37' long. Make sure the tv/trailer combo matches and you will have a much safer, enjoyable adventure. If you have other questions about the weights don't hesitate to ask. Good luck.

[Dogrich1]

sourdough, We have a 30ft TT now and have only used it fairly close to home. Needed more room. We will just have to look at a bigger truck. Thank you for your info and patience with me on this. Will see about trading up on the truck first.

[sourdough]

sourdough, We have a 30ft TT now and have only used it fairly close to home. Needed more room. We will just have to look at a bigger truck. Thank you for your info and patience with me on this. Will see about trading up on the truck first.


No patience required on my part and you are welcome. I just want you and others to avoid the pitfalls I and others have encountered and overcome at great expense. Just made another upgrade on trucks a couple of months ago to accommodate a new trailer I didn't know I wanted (DW informed me :D).

If you have the capability to upgrade trucks find the trailer that fits you, look at the numbers on it and then look at the numbers on a truck that will work. We are here to assist in that effort. Good luck.

[Logan X]

Welcome to the forum and all of the advice you have received here is good advice given by experienced people. Good luck in your quest!

[travelin texans]

Don't take offense by comments from us "weight freaks" or feel "pounced on" with our suggestions, but all the info mentioned equals only one thing TOO MUCH RV or NOT ENOUGH TRUCK.

[theasphaltrv'er]

Dogrich your getting some great advise. Please let me give you my thoughts..
We drive a '13 F150 XLT Ecoboost HD with a payload capacity of 2172 lbs. When we was looking to up grade or downgrade, we we're towing a 31 ft. TT. When looking, researching & calculating what 5th wheel our truck could handle, a sales lady really, I mean really tried to get us into a 28sgs. She gave the ole your truck will have no problem pulling it, bah, bah, bah. Right it would have "no problem pulling it" but it would have a problem with the pin weight of it. I knew it was to much for our truck. Pin weight was bout 300 lbs more than the one we got. We finally decided on a '14 26sab. We are within our trucks limits and 6 years and over 10,000 miles of towing it, it was the best decision we could have made.

[skids]

Don't take offense by comments from us "weight freaks" or feel "pounced on" with our suggestions, but all the info mentioned equals only one thing TOO MUCH RV or NOT ENOUGH TRUCK.

And, he says that with EMPHASIS! Yuk yuk.

[Hamlej]

Here is some advise after taking several HUGE hits to the wallet. If you can, go buy that 1 ton dually long bed pickup. Then go shopping for the trailer of your choice. No matter what you say or think now eventually you will decided to upgrade that fifth wheel to bigger, better and heavier.

[JimJan]

We had a 3/4 ton chevy and were unsure we wanted to get back into camping so we bought an older small 5th wheel to see. After a season we decided to get a better - bigger 5th wheel. Found a nice used 38 footer. Went on a few short weekends and noticed the sag in the truck. Air bags helped but the suspension was over loaded.
Got on line here and learned what you are hearing now, that the truck did not have the capacity. We ended up getting the 1 ton dually long bed which is a little over-kill but it sure handles nice.
Moral of the story is get more truck than you need for the camper the you want now because a bigger - better one is most likely in your future.

[JRTJH]

...
Moral of the story is get more truck than you need for the camper the you want now because a bigger - better one is most likely in your future.

And then we read the new thread: Hi, I'm new to travel trailers and just bought a 37' Hideout travel trailer for my DW, our teacup poodle and me. When we towed it home from the dealership, we realized we're going to need one of those "weight hitch transfer systems" and the truck seemed to run a little hotter than usual, but it towed just fine. Do you think our 2005 Ranger will have any trouble towing it? We don't have any plans to tow any further than about 200 miles from home and only short trips of 2 or 3 days. Our Ranger is a 4x4, FX4, so it's "fully equipped with a towing package"....

[ctbruce]

And then we read the new thread: Hi, I'm new to travel trailers and just bought a 37' Hideout travel trailer for my DW, our teacup poodle and me. When we towed it home from the dealership, we realized we're going to need one of those "weight hitch transfer systems" and the truck seemed to run a little hotter than usual, but it towed just fine. Do you think our 2005 Ranger will have any trouble towing it? We don't have any plans to tow any further than about 200 miles from home and only short trips of 2 or 3 days. Our Ranger is a 4x4, FX4, so it's "fully equipped with a towing package"....Yep, this here is a "full spectrum" RV Forum.

[flybouy]

And then we read the new thread: Hi, I'm new to travel trailers and just bought a 37' Hideout travel trailer for my DW, our teacup poodle and me. When we towed it home from the dealership, we realized we're going to need one of those "weight hitch transfer systems" and the truck seemed to run a little hotter than usual, but it towed just fine. Do you think our 2005 Ranger will have any trouble towing it? We don't have any plans to tow any further than about 200 miles from home and only short trips of 2 or 3 days. Our Ranger is a 4x4, FX4, so it's "fully equipped with a towing package"....

And he doesn't even know it's back there. Oh yeah, almost forgot, he gets 35 m.p.g. towing.

[Gegrad]

And he doesn't even know it's back there. Oh yeah, almost forgot, he gets 35 m.p.g. towing.

You forgot to mention that the dealer assured him it would tow just fine, but he might see a small fuel economy decrease.

[LewisB]

To the OP:
In post #1 you state you are "new to towing"; then in post #10 you state you "have a 30 foot TT you have used close to home". It sounds like you have already landed at that stage where a major upgrade is in store. You were thinking trailer and from the advice offered here you are realizing correctly that it also means tow vehicle.

Post #17 is the best advice of all when JimJan states "... get more truck than you need for the camper the you want now because a bigger - better one is most likely in your future." I'm guessing that a large percentage of the members of the forum would add an "amen" to that statement! We have all been where you are at now - wanting a bigger trailer and realizing we need a bigger truck. For many of us (including me), we've sung this tune multiple times - purchased ever increasing sized rigs.

So, if you already know that "camping/RVing" is in your future, you will already know that you are going to ultimately want bigger stuff. Take JimJan's advice! Buy TWICE the truck you think you will need. Otherwise, two or three years from now, when the DW decides she wants a king bed and you want to bring the boat or haul the kids or...etc., you may be in exactly the same spot. JMHO

[sourdough]

To the OP:
In post #1 you state you are "new to towing"; then in post #10 you state you "have a 30 foot TT you have used close to home". It sounds like you have already landed at that stage where a major upgrade is in store. You were thinking trailer and from the advice offered here you are realizing correctly that it also means tow vehicle.

Post #17 is the best advice of all when JimJan states "... get more truck than you need for the camper the you want now because a bigger - better one is most likely in your future." I'm guessing that a large percentage of the members of the forum would add an "amen" to that statement! We have all been where you are at now - wanting a bigger trailer and realizing we need a bigger truck. For many of us (including me), we've sung this tune multiple times - purchased ever increasing sized rigs.

So, if you already know that "camping/RVing" is in your future, you will already know that you are going to ultimately want bigger stuff. Take JimJan's advice! Buy TWICE the truck you think you will need. Otherwise, two or three years from now, when the DW decides she wants a king bed and you want to bring the boat or haul the kids or...etc., you may be in exactly the same spot. JMHO


I think this is probably correct for most folks, but some, like myself, really enjoy (seemingly :nonono:) going in to buy a new truck every 3 mos./3 yr. just to hear the sales guy tell you how much less your vehicle is worth than what you paid. The jolt! That sickening feeling of knowing - here we are again, and I'm going to get yet another slightly different truck....THIS time it will be different....THIS time I'm not going to get something larger/different/with a "washer and dryer" etc. And, like a gambling addict, you sign on the dotted line, take that new, incrementally larger vehicle home hoping THIS time you're going to "win it all", "beat the house"....yet knowing deep inside that the value of that new truck dropped by thousands when you walked out the door and as soon as you talk to the next sales guy he will confirm that for you....plus, DW was just talking about wishing we had a 4 seat UTV to go in a toy hauler as you were walking out. Ahhh, what's that? That sickening feeling returning? The knowledge that you will yet again prove that you can't beat the house operating in this manner. WHY oh WHY didn't you just buy way more truck than you needed? What!!?? And deprive oneself of this self inflicted misery? :facepalm::facepalm::banghead::banghead::lol::lol:

[Tuz5150]

I'm the opposite.... I bought way more rig then we wanted (it was awesome deal)... all we carry is surfboards, mt bikes and board shorts........ We don't need W/D

it's also an X-lite... my pin weight loaded with all our crap is only 1463.... CAT scaled it, to verify weights on axles, payload, tires, etc.

I LEASE a brand new silverado 1500, with max tow package, payload 2250. I drive with 2 fingers, and it tows/drives like a dream.

did 8,000 miles last year. I get 15k miles per year...

AND I get a brand new truck every 24 months.... current lease $268/month

[jtharding]

I used to tow that trailer with a Ram 2500 6.4 with ease. Dont think a 1/2 ton will be sufficient..

[flybouy]

I'm the opposite.... I bought way more rig then we wanted (it was awesome deal)... all we carry is surfboards, mt bikes and board shorts........ We don't need W/D

it's also an X-lite... my pin weight loaded with all our crap is only 1463.... CAT scaled it, to verify weights on axles, payload, tires, etc.

I LEASE a brand new silverado 1500, with max tow package, payload 2250. I drive with 2 fingers, and it tows/drives like a dream.

did 8,000 miles last year. I get 15k miles per year...

AND I get a brand new truck every 24 months.... current lease $268/month
I'm not aware of WD with a 5th.
So, you'release had no "upfront" or "down" money? No end of lease money? The lease terms are O.K. with poking holes in the bed for a FW hitch? That's some lease term! :rolleyes:

[Tuz5150]

I'm not aware of WD with a 5th.
So, you'release had no "upfront" or "down" money? No end of lease money? The lease terms are O.K. with poking holes in the bed for a FW hitch? That's some lease term! :rolleyes:

$0 down, $0 security deposit, $0 end of lease fee.
Hitch attached using OEM Reese kit. then removed at turn in. :rolleyes:

I have not bought a truck EVER!

[JRTJH]

$0 down, $0 security deposit, $0 end of lease fee.
Hitch attached using OEM Reese kit. then removed at turn in. :rolleyes:

I have not bought a truck EVER!

What OEM Reese kit is available for any 150/1500 truck that doesn't require drilling the bed, mounting underbed adapters and installing a set of bed rails/cutting 3" holes for OEM adapter kit?

[Tuz5150]

What OEM Reese kit is available for any 150/1500 truck that doesn't require drilling the bed, mounting underbed adapters and installing a set of bed rails/cutting 3" holes for OEM adapter kit?

The OEM kit attaches to the frame using exiting holes... it requires 4 holes in the bed to attach the rails. Not sure why you have a problem with this? (not that I care)

It is what it IS.... a LEASE, that does NOT prohibit the use of a 5 wheel hitch. Go to your GM dealer and ask. Ford, or Ram may be different.... I'm telling you what I have.

[ctbruce]

The OEM kit attaches to the frame using exiting holes... it requires 4 holes in the bed to attach the rails. Not sure why you have a problem with this? (not that I care)



It is what it IS.... a LEASE, that does NOT prohibit the use of a 5 wheel hitch. Go to your GM dealer and ask. Ford, or Ram may be different.... I'm telling you what I have.Calm down. It's not that we doubt you but that we've never heard this before and want to make sure we are talking the same thing.

We also don't want someone to go out think this true for all leases. If it is something special only available to you, then the info is not of much use to others. If it is something new or something coming into the market place, then that would be valuable to a lot of people.

No need to get your panties in a wad.

[JRTJH]

The OEM kit attaches to the frame using exiting holes... it requires 4 holes in the bed to attach the rails. Not sure why you have a problem with this? (not that I care)

It is what it IS.... a LEASE, that does NOT prohibit the use of a 5 wheel hitch. Go to your GM dealer and ask. Ford, or Ram may be different.... I'm telling you what I have.

Do you mean "The AFTERMARKET kit" ??? There is NO OEM Reese fifth wheel hitch kit for any 150/1500 truck. None of the manufacturers rate or certify their half ton trucks for fifth wheel towing. Chevrolet/GMC doesn't offer a "OEM" fifth wheel kit that I can find. Do you have any information on where I can find the information regarding the OEM parts for the half ton truck ???

And, What Chip said about all of us wanting to "learn what you found"....

[flybouy]

I'm the opposite.... I bought way more rig then we wanted (it was awesome deal)... all we carry is surfboards, mt bikes and board shorts........ We don't need W/D

it's also an X-lite... my pin weight loaded with all our crap is only 1463.... CAT scaled it, to verify weights on axles, payload, tires, etc.

I LEASE a brand new silverado 1500, with max tow package, payload 2250. I drive with 2 fingers, and it tows/drives like a dream.

did 8,000 miles last year. I get 15k miles per year...

AND I get a brand new truck every 24 months.... current lease $268/month

Just so folks here are informed (don't want to have your blood pressure go up again), the listed pin weight I can find is 1,405 lbs. How do you manage to load it up, I assume you have a battery and propane, and only add 58 lbs. to the pin? Since you have "CAT scaled it" Do you still maintain a 20% pin weight?

Curious minds want to know.

[Tuz5150]

Just so folks here are informed (don't want to have your blood pressure go up again), the listed pin weight I can find is 1,405 lbs. How do you manage to load it up, I assume you have a battery and propane, and only add 58 lbs. to the pin? Since you have "CAT scaled it" Do you still maintain a 20% pin weight?

Curious minds want to know.

Bullied on an RV forum by the *Site Team* THAT'S RICH! I came here to learn more about RVs, I never imagined I'd be bullied for stating facts.

Let's have a show of hands of the bully's.... who is an engineer, or is in any technical aspect of product development at any of the Detroit Auto manufacturers? (I'll wait)

For those Reese expert/engineers, what part(s) of the all new Silverado were/was modified to accommodate the Reese hitch package? (I' can wait more)

As far as my blood pressure.... not to worry, I just retired at 50, and so did the wife.....

Site team... isn't it your job to police the Bully? But wait, how do you police yourselves?

[ctbruce]

Bullied on an RV forum by the *Site Team* THAT'S RICH! I came here to learn more about RVs, I never imagined I'd be bullied for stating facts.



Let's have a show of hands of the bully's.... who is an engineer, or is in any technical aspect of product development at any of the Detroit Auto manufacturers? (I'll wait)



For those Reese expert/engineers, what part(s) of the all new Silverado were/was modified to accommodate the Reese hitch package? (I' can wait more)



As far as my blood pressure.... not to worry, I just retired at 50, and so did the wife.....



Site team... isn't it your job to police the Bully? But wait, how do you police yourselves?

We were asking you to expound because it was the first and only post of it's kind on this forum. I thought I explained that pretty well.

We want and need to share new or changed information with members. What you shared is beyond everyone else's experience so if we questioned your info it's because we wanted to be sure and we wanted to learn something new from you. If you felt insulted or belittled then that's your interpretation. You were acting defensive for no reason. When the moderators said something we were hoping you'd take the hint and calm down. Obviously not. Check you messages, we will take this off line.

[busterbrown]

Not than ANYone has ANYthing to prove to ANY online forum member (except that lawyer, insurance adjuster, or judge who's deciding on the fate of an accident or traffic event)....but a trip to the CAT scales will be ANYone's best friend when it comes to the final verdict. That and a picture of the driver's side door jam placard.

To the OP, this is a great video that a YT fulltimer posted describing many of the towing principles that every newbie should understand. I think it will help:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qwFLOBrADBs

[LewisB]

Bullied on an RV forum by the *Site Team* THAT'S RICH! I came here to learn more about RVs, I never imagined I'd be bullied for stating facts.

Let's have a show of hands of the bully's.... who is an engineer, or is in any technical aspect of product development at any of the Detroit Auto manufacturers? (I'll wait)

For those Reese expert/engineers, what part(s) of the all new Silverado were/was modified to accommodate the Reese hitch package? (I' can wait more)

As far as my blood pressure.... not to worry, I just retired at 50, and so did the wife.....

Site team... isn't it your job to police the Bully? But wait, how do you police yourselves?

Hey, no one is trying to bully you - we are trying to understand. As just another member I can tell you that the site team does a great job at their work and doesn't need to bully anyone. The problem is, when something seems too good to be true, it probably isn't. You've made some odd statements that make your data questionable (payload list doesn't include passengers, food, water, batteries, fuel, etc., you have a truck that is not rated by Chevy to even pull a 5th wheel, unbelievable lease agreement that would take a dealer 15 years to recap initial cost at interest free rates, etc.).

So humor us; think of yourself as the "teacher" and us as your "students" - don't be defensive. Share your data for all of us to see. Share your truck and trailer weight stickers and your scale tickets. Help us out!

[Gegrad]

Yeah, I will second it (or 3rd it? 4th it?). We are very open to learning new things, but none of us have seen anything like what you have. We just want to learn more so we can share with others the details for the future. Treat it like you discovered a new species and want to share it with us. Many of us would be interested in partaking in your experience, honestly.

[Ken / Claudia]

I did not read any bullying. I also did not read much of any reasonable questions being answered. Just the standard counter strike and complain.

[Huntme]

if the poster get offended that easy,maybe He or She should not get on these sites.

[Northofu1]

There were inconsistencies in what he was saying. The GCVWR even with the max towing model would not cover his TV and 5er. Hope he comes back to get some clarity in his situation.
Pulled this from the pullrite site, so maybe they do cater to 1/2 tons.
#2768 ISR Series 20K Custom Mounting Kit for 2019-2020 Chevy/GMC 1500 Trucks

[JRTJH]

There were inconsistencies in what he was saying. The GCVWR even with the max towing model would not cover his TV and 5er. Hope he comes back to get some clarity in his situation.

He won't be back. He made some comments "behind the scene" that have precluded his future posting on this forum. I agree with your assessment of his "numbers and capacity"... It's "mathematically impossible" to get what he had to stay under the numbers. When you also consider "drilling holes in the truck bed and not having to pay for repairs when turned in and having a 24 month/24,000 mile lease on a $50K truck for $268 a month with no pre/post fees (and the drilled holes) well, seems like every one of us would love to find that deal.... If it seems too good to be true.... Yada yada yada......

[Logan X]

Sometimes this forum is more entertaining than Jerry Springer...

[chuckster57]

Sometimes this forum is more entertaining than Jerry Springer...



Yeah?

Maybe Maury but I don’t think Jerry?

[sourdough]

Sometimes this forum is more entertaining than Jerry Springer...



Now you hit that right!! Used to love CSI-Miami, now it's KeystoneForums….it don't get no funner!:D

[flybouy]

Showing my age but I seem to recall a TV show hosted by Gary Moore when I was young. To Tell The Truth was on ABC for many years.:whistling:

[ctbruce]

This one has strayed so far into the weeds that we may find the Covid19 source.

[chuckster57]

This one has strayed so far into the weeds that we may find the Covid19 source.


That would require Heraldo Rivera.

[notanlines]

I simply cannot fathom y'all admitting to having watched these shows. Next it'll be 'Naked and Afraid' or Judge Judy....:eek: