New Trailer, Brakes Need Adjusting?

[uechikid]

We have a new bullet 269RLSWE. I installed the Tekonsha P3. I read the instructions and have watched the video from the company on features and how to adjust it.
I’m not able to adjust it to any where near the point of getting the tires to chirp. The only thing I can think of is the brake on the trailer weren’t adjusted correctly at the factory.
Anyone else have to adjust their brakes on their brand new trailer?

[sourdough]

I've not had to, but, did you check that with the selling dealership before taking off? I've owned a P3 and they are good. Are you set up correctly? How are you trying to get the tires to "chirp"?

[uechikid]

I set the P3 to the level of braking I think is needed, then drive at around 25mph, let off the gas and push the lever on the P3 to the left. I can get it to engage the brakes but it only slows me down a little.
Check with the dealer about adjusting the P3 or whether the brakes were adjusted at the factory?

[sourdough]

What level do you think is needed? The one needed is the one that gives adequate braking - which is a pretty wide range with the P3. Have you ran the power up?

[bobbecky]

Your initial setting according to the install instructions should be 6.
These are the power setting instructions, and once this is done, there is also a boost adjustment that needs to be done. Depending on the weight of the trailer, you may never get the tires to 'chirp':

Adjusting the Power to the Trailer Brakes (Prior to setting Boost)
Once the control has been securely mounted, it is necessary to set the power needed to stop the trailer during a braking event.
1. Connect trailer to tow vehicle.
2. With engine running set power (with Power Buttons) to indicate 6.0
3. Drive tow vehicle and trailer on a dry level paved surface at 25 mph and fully apply Manual Knob.
3 If trailer brakes lock up:q Turn power down using Power Buttons.
3 If braking was not sufficient:q Turn power up using Power Buttons.
4. Repeat Step (3) until power has been set to a point just below wheel lock up or at a sufficient force as to achieve maximum braking power.
5. Using the brake pedal, make a few low speed stops to check the power setting. Trailer braking is initiated and terminated via the stoplight switch. When the brake pedal is released, trailer braking will cease.

[uechikid]

Thanks for posting the instructions. I just reread them in the manual. I'll check tomorrow to see if the initial settings are correct. I thought I went through the setup when I first installed it

Thanks..

[Jfreek65]

I run the same controller and have good braking on my 2018 27res with settings around 5.0 and boost set to 2 or 3. The boost definitely does make a difference with middling to bigger trailers.

Brake adjustment is important too.

[uechikid]

I checked the setup of the P3 yesterday. I don't know what I did but it was setup wrong. I had it set on hydraulic and boost 1. I changed it to electric and boost 2. I'll get the trailer out Saturday and adjust the power level again.
Thanks for your help.

[LHaven]

I had precisely the same behavior with my new Cougar and the controller in my new F250. I swore the problem was in the controller (especially since the controller in my old truck set up correctly as far as I can recall), but the dealer checked it out over and over. I even went to the trouble of constructing a bypass harness for the trailer connector so that I could test with the manual switch on an inexpensive but known good third-party controller that I had from an older truck, and it gave me the same results.

So I brought the rig in to some local trailer experts (not my RV dealer), and they found grease had pushed past the seals on all four wheels (I had just had that fresh lube work done elsewhere, never going back there) – so they cleaned it, resealed and relubed, and told me that once the cleaning solvent evaporated, the brakes should work fine… but they never have.

Right now, my plan is to bring the rig back to the same experts before the start of this year's camping season, and have them do a complete check up on the brake system along with the annual wheel lube. If the problem isn't there, I have no idea what I'm going to do about it.

[JRTJH]

...
Right now, my plan is to bring the rig back to the same experts before the start of this year's camping season, and have them do a complete check up on the brake system along with the annual wheel lube. If the problem isn't there, I have no idea what I'm going to do about it.

I've never seen brake shoe linings that would "function correctly" after being contaminated with grease from a "short cut called the EZ Lube system". Cleaning contaminated brake shoe lining simply won't clean the grease out of the lining material.

The only "cleaning shortcut" short of replacing the brake linings, magnet actuator and hubs is that you "might" (probably won't) get lucky and are able to clean the hubs. If you can get the hubs clean, your brakes will be OK. If you can't get the hubs clean, you risk contaminating the new brake shoes when you reassemble the axle, so it's a "judgement call" whether to replace the hubs along with the magnets and shoes or "take the risk"....

I don't know of anyone who will suggest that brake shoes can be "cleaned and will be OK"....

My suggestion would be to buy new brake assemblies (built up backing plates with everything already assembled) and pull off the old parts, have the hubs resurfaced (if they are thick enough) or replace them if they can't be resurfaced, and once you get them back from the machine shop, repack the wheel bearings, replace the seals and reassemble the axles, adjust the brakes and then follow the "guidelines to "burnish" the new brake shoes to the new hub surface. Only then will you get "maximum braking effort from grease contaminated brakes.

[Brantlyj]

I had precisely the same behavior with my new Cougar and the controller in my new F250. I swore the problem was in the controller (especially since the controller in my old truck set up correctly as far as I can recall), but the dealer checked it out over and over. I even went to the trouble of constructing a bypass harness for the trailer connector so that I could test with the manual switch on an inexpensive but known good third-party controller that I had from an older truck, and it gave me the same results.

So I brought the rig in to some local trailer experts (not my RV dealer), and they found grease had pushed past the seals on all four wheels (I had just had that fresh lube work done elsewhere, never going back there) – so they cleaned it, resealed and relubed, and told me that once the cleaning solvent evaporated, the brakes should work fine… but they never have.

Right now, my plan is to bring the rig back to the same experts before the start of this year's camping season, and have them do a complete check up on the brake system along with the annual wheel lube. If the problem isn't there, I have no idea what I'm going to do about it.

Once you get grease or oil on the pads they are done. Replace the pads and you should be good.

[flybouy]

Agree with the contaminated brake linings are trash. Their next stop should be in a recycle or trash bin.

[LHaven]

I'll have to check the invoice to see whether they replaced the linings when they did the cleaning last year. Right now it's inaccessible for a week. I'm not a motorhead, so stuff like that on an invoice is likely to just fly over my head.

[Logan X]

To the OP- if you want to check to see if your brakes are working, jack up the wheels and pull the emergency brake cable. The wheels should not spin if the brakes are adjusted correctly.

[LHaven]

To the OP- if you want to check to see if your brakes are working, jack up the wheels and pull the emergency brake cable. The wheels should not spin if the brakes are adjusted correctly.

As long as you realize that the wheel stopping is not an indicator that the brakes are adjusted correctly. Brakes that can stop a tire turning freely won't necessarily stop a wheel under weight and load. In both the OP's case and mine, the manual brake controller button produces a small stopping force, but nothing like what it ought to be.

The test I really ought to do is to hitch everything up, sit in the bed of the truck, and pull the emergency brake cord while the rig is moderately underway, but I haven't had the courage to do that.

[uechikid]

I think if I’m going to go to the trouble of pulling the trailer out and jack it up, I might just as well take the wheels off and and actually check the brakes.

[chuckster57]

You can pull the break away pin and then put the TV in drive, We use the forklift at work.

[Brantlyj]

You can pull the break away pin and then put the TV in drive, We use the forklift at work.

I thought I read that having the pin pulled for more than 10-15 seconds will burn up the magnets. Guessing that was incorrect information?

[chuckster57]

I haven’t had that happen yet. When we do an axle service we will lift the trailer so the tires are off the ground. First thing we do is pull the pin to verify all brakes are in fact working. I have had the switch Melt but during this service Is the ideal time to find it. Usually a short will cause this, but I have yet to melt a magnet.

[JRTJH]

As long as you realize that the wheel stopping is not an indicator that the brakes are adjusted correctly. Brakes that can stop a tire turning freely won't necessarily stop a wheel under weight and load. In both the OP's case and mine, the manual brake controller button produces a small stopping force, but nothing like what it ought to be.

The test I really ought to do is to hitch everything up, sit in the bed of the truck, and pull the emergency brake cord while the rig is moderately underway, but I haven't had the courage to do that.

If you've got a sliding rear window, you can tie a length of cord on the breakaway switch plunger, route the cord through the open rear window and into the front seat. Drive normally and when you're up to the desired speed, in an area where you can make an "emergency stop" without fear of any other vehicles around you, simply pull the cord and see what happens. You should stop, and it ought to be a "quick stop"....

That said, I wouldn't try it above about 10 or 15 MPH (there's no reason to be going faster) as you may find a "control issue" if the brakes on one side lock up and the other side doesn't...

Anyway, there's no reason to "sit in the bed of the truck" to pull the plunger on the breakaway switch.

[Brantlyj]

I haven’t had that happen yet. When we do an axle service we will lift the trailer so the tires are off the ground. First thing we do is pull the pin to verify all brakes are in fact working. I have had the switch Melt but during this service Is the ideal time to find it. Usually a short will cause this, but I have yet to melt a magnet.

Maybe it was the switch melting that I read. 🤷*♂️

[Logan X]

I think if I’m going to go to the trouble of pulling the trailer out and jack it up, I might just as well take the wheels off and and actually check the brakes.

That may be worthwhile as well, especially if you think something isn’t right. If you are going to remove the wheels and check the brakes you may as well repack the bearings. It’s a little work, but if you are concerned there is an issue, it may be worth it.

[MarkEHansen]

I agree that after grease contamination, the brake shoes/lining should be replaced - you can't simply clean these.

However, there was a comment that after grease contamination, you should replace the hub. I don't get this. I've been doing brake work for decades and if the hub is in good shape otherwise, grease can just be cleaned off - it's just cast steel.

If that wasn't just a typo, what is the reasoning behind replacing the hub in the case of grease contamination?

[rjrelander]

Might also be worth double checking the wire connections to the controller. We had ours installed at the dealer and the brakes never seemed to work quite right. Finally untaped the wiring harness connections only to find the ground wire hanging by a thread. Just enough current to make them work but not work very well. Stripped the wire and secured the connection and they have worked fine since.

[uechikid]

That may be worthwhile as well, especially if you think something isn’t right. If you are going to remove the wheels and check the brakes you may as well repack the bearings. It’s a little work, but if you are concerned there is an issue, it may be worth it.

When I read your comment I laughed. One more thing I don't want to have to do to a new trailer. But your point is well taken. It's like replacing a clutch disk and not replacing the pressure plate and pilot bushing.

[uechikid]

Might also be worth double checking the wire connections to the controller. We had ours installed at the dealer and the brakes never seemed to work quite right. Finally untaped the wiring harness connections only to find the ground wire hanging by a thread. Just enough current to make them work but not work very well. Stripped the wire and secured the connection and they have worked fine since.

I have the plug and play adapter made by Tekonsha. But it would be time well spent to double check that connection.

[JRTJH]

When I read your comment I laughed. One more thing I don't want to have to do to a new trailer. But your point is well taken. It's like replacing a clutch disk and not replacing the pressure plate and pilot bushing.

When you consider that the axles are "assembled in China by the lowest bidder" shipped to the US, trucked cross country and stored at Lippert until ordered by one of the factories, it's not a "far stretch" to consider that there may/may not be adequate grease on the bearings, that the seals may/may not be installed correctly, that the brake assemblies may/may not be installed correctly. I'm not suggesting that a specific percentage will fail, but we all know there's an "acceptable failure rate" and an "acceptable warranty return rate"...

That gives rise to the question: Which axles are the bad ones???

And the question: Is it mine or am I lucky enough that it's yours that will not have enough grease, or that the brake shoes will literally "fall out of the hub" when you pull it off the spindle....….

For me, there's enough potential for problems that if I'm going to have the wheels on a new trailer off the ground, it's worth the effort to make sure my trailer isn't the "one in 50" (or whatever the acceptable failure rate might be)…

[uechikid]

When you consider that the axles are "assembled in China by the lowest bidder" shipped to the US, trucked cross country and stored at Lippert until ordered by one of the factories, it's not a "far stretch" to consider that there may/may not be adequate grease on the bearings, that the seals may/may not be installed correctly, that the brake assemblies may/may not be installed correctly. I'm not suggesting that a specific percentage will fail, but we all know there's an "acceptable failure rate" and an "acceptable warranty return rate"...

That gives rise to the question: Which axles are the bad ones???

And the question: Is it mine or am I lucky enough that it's yours that will not have enough grease, or that the brake shoes will literally "fall out of the hub" when you pull it off the spindle....….

For me, there's enough potential for problems that if I'm going to have the wheels on a new trailer off the ground, it's worth the effort to make sure my trailer isn't the "one in 50" (or whatever the acceptable failure rate might be)…

Now that I think about it. When I bought a trailer to pull behind my bike, I checked the bearings and they only had a tad bit of grease on them. They weren't packed.
So those of you who are experienced trailer owners, do you check your bearings when you buy a new trailer?

[JRTJH]

Now that I think about it. When I bought a trailer to pull behind my bike, I checked the bearings and they only had a tad bit of grease on them. They weren't packed.
So those of you who are experienced trailer owners, do you check your bearings when you buy a new trailer?

You should have been able to "gleen my answer" from my comments, but in case it wasn't clear, Yes, I pull all 4 wheels, check the brake assemblies, check the bearings and if they are "stamped CHINA", I replace with Timken bearings and races, repack the bearings, replace the grease seal and reassemble the hubs and adjust the brakes. Then I repack every other year if we tow less than 10K miles or every year if we tow over 10K miles that camping season. I typically repack bearings in the spring so I have fresh grease for the towing season. And, in case it might come up, I NEVER EVER use the EZ Lube system !!!!!

[uechikid]

You should have been able to "gleen my answer" from my comments, but in case it wasn't clear, Yes, I pull all 4 wheels, check the brake assemblies, check the bearings and if they are "stamped CHINA", I replace with Timken bearings and races, repack the bearings, replace the grease seal and reassemble the hubs and adjust the brakes. Then I repack every other year if we tow less than 10K miles or every year if we tow over 10K miles that camping season. I typically repack bearings in the spring so I have fresh grease for the towing season. And, in case it might come up, I NEVER EVER use the EZ Lube system !!!!!

Thanks John.
Sometimes I just need to have someone tell me, “hey dummy, this is what I do, if you don’t, you may be sorry”.

[Nitram987]

I haven't read the entire thread, but to the original question, YES! check and adjust the brakes. Absolutely.

I had a new 2019 Bullet Crossfire 1900Rd delivered and I unknowingly had steel-on-steel before 1 year was up on one hub. I almost lost it on a 10% grade in the Tetons, Wyoming.

Why did this happen you ask? The repair shop looking it all over said that the original dealer had not set up the stock Dexter brakes prior to delivery.

Shame on me. I now check and set up my brakes myself now. It was a very close call going down that hill only to discover that I had marginal braking power (even with the Prodigy P3 doing its best to help me. It's an excellent brake controller but you need to have brakes left for it to function). Imagine being forced into a 1 second decision between ditching to the big rig emergency breakaway chute versus trying to maintain spacing between 2 big rigs.

[uechikid]

I got the trailer out yesterday. I needed to set the WD hitch up. Another thing the dealer didn't do.
While I was out I checked to see if the new settings on the P3 would make any difference. They did but only a little. When I got home I checked the brake adjustment on the side of the trailer that is not accessible when it's on the side yard. You guessed it, neither of those brakes were even touching the drum. So I adjusted them. While I was there I pulled the drums and did an inspection. everything looked good. Repacked the bearings and put her away. Today I did the other side. Same story. I didn't have a chance to take it out but I'm hopeful the adjustment solves the problem.

[Andymil]

I had precisely the same behavior with my new Cougar and the controller in my new F250. I swore the problem was in the controller (especially since the controller in my old truck set up correctly as far as I can recall), but the dealer checked it out over and over. I even went to the trouble of constructing a bypass harness for the trailer connector so that I could test with the manual switch on an inexpensive but known good third-party controller that I had from an older truck, and it gave me the same results.

So I brought the rig in to some local trailer experts (not my RV dealer), and they found grease had pushed past the seals on all four wheels (I had just had that fresh lube work done elsewhere, never going back there) – so they cleaned it, resealed and relubed, and told me that once the cleaning solvent evaporated, the brakes should work fine… but they never have.

Right now, my plan is to bring the rig back to the same experts before the start of this year's camping season, and have them do a complete check up on the brake system along with the annual wheel lube. If the problem isn't there, I have no idea what I'm going to do about it.

I found grease in two of the brakes on our 2015 Sprinter.

I replaced the complete brake assemblies (with automatic adjusters that the original brakes didn’t have) on all four wheels. Also replaced the bearings with Timkens and installed new seals. Brake cleaner got the drums clean enough. Brakes work fine now.

If there’s grease on the brake shoes, you will never get the adjustment right.

PS: It appeared that the bearings were never lubed after the trailer left the factory. As far as I could tell, the grease/seal problem came from the factory. The previous owner never had a clue.

[Andymil]

I got the trailer out yesterday. I needed to set the WD hitch up. Another thing the dealer didn't do.
While I was out I checked to see if the new settings on the P3 would make any difference. They did but only a little. When I got home I checked the brake adjustment on the side of the trailer that is not accessible when it's on the side yard. You guessed it, neither of those brakes were even touching the drum. So I adjusted them. While I was there I pulled the drums and did an inspection. everything looked good. Repacked the bearings and put her away. Today I did the other side. Same story. I didn't have a chance to take it out but I'm hopeful the adjustment solves the problem.

Sorry, I didn’t read your last post when I posted my reply. :o

[skids]

Kind of on-subject: Is there any way to remove the inner grease seal to inspect the inner bearings so that the seal can be reused?

[MarkEHansen]

We tried this. I suppose if you remove the hub and use a drift punch to carefully take it out, you can reuse it, but honestly, the seals are very inexpensive (a few dollars each) so I plan to just always replace mine.

[Brantlyj]

Kind of on-subject: Is there any way to remove the inner grease seal to inspect the inner bearings so that the seal can be reused?

No you cant

[MarkEHansen]

No you cant


Of course you can - it just may not be worth it. I've done it. Sometimes they come out fine - sometimes they don't. If you're careful...

[flybouy]

trying to remove the seal from a hub with grease and a bearing in there to me is futile and not worth the effort. Too much risk in distorting the seal. Can it be done? Perhaps. I am not one to take that risk for the few dollars an new seal would cost. If I was on the road and had to replace the inner bearing and didn't have a seal I might consider it but then I would replace it at the first opportunity.

Bottom line, the juice ain't worth the squeeze. YMMV

[Logan X]

Every time I have removed the inner seal it was destroyed.

[JRTJH]

You "might not" or you "might destroy the seal and not notice" or you "might can"...

That said, 4 EZ Lube seals for a 3500 pound axle tube cost $10.99 on Amazon with "free delivery" for Prime members.

That's $2.75 per seal. You can buy them cheaper if you catch them on sale at NAPA or if you get a "mechanic's discount".

When you consider that a brake assembly/magnet costs $79, why would anyone "cheap out" on a $2.75 seal and risk having to do it all over again with parts costing 30 times more than that two dollar seal ?????

Sort of like "buying one hamburger at McD's and taking a bite, chewing to enjoy it, spitting it back on the burger and handing it to your buddy.... Some things just are better "used once".... Burgers and axle seals both come to mind, at least for me......