Cougar or Passport

[dmatt]

Is there any structural, major difference between these two? Is one a higher end model, better quality, etc? Thanks

[jq1031]

dmatt, go to www.keystonerv.com & do a comparison of the two. The Cougar is mid price point & Passport is lower price point according to there chart comparison. You can check the standards & options for both. Regarding the structural components, that I don't know.

[Angie121]

The Cougar has several lines, the Xlite, the Cougar, the High Country; they have more features than the Passports. Both the Cougar and the Passport have an aluminum frame with fiberglass exterior and an enclosed underbelly. Call Steve at 231-736-9162 he is extremely knowledgeable about both units and will answer any questions that you have as well as tell you about the features of both.

Good luck in your search!
Angie

[dmatt]

Thanks for the info. We looked at a bunch at the RV show. Actually liked the Outbacks that I saw and We've narrowed it down to an Arctic Fox 25Y: http://www.northwoodmfg.com/index.php?page=model&make=arctic&id=311 and The Outback 260FL: http://keystone-outback.com/index.php?page=floorplans&coast=&model=260FL

I'm going to spend some time looking at build quality, construction, etc.

[JRTJH]

Thanks for the info. We looked at a bunch at the RV show. Actually liked the Outbacks that I saw and We've narrowed it down to an Arctic Fox 25Y: http://www.northwoodmfg.com/index.php?page=model&make=arctic&id=311 and The Outback 260FL: http://keystone-outback.com/index.php?page=floorplans&coast=&model=260FL

I'm going to spend some time looking at build quality, construction, etc.

Something to connsider is that every trailer is built individually. That means that one coming off the assembly line probably won't be exactly the same as the next one coming off the line. We've had numerous discussions on here and on other forums regarding wiring, plumbing etc that isn't the same trailer to trailer. For example, my wiring isn't routed the same as the guy I was camping next to this summer, although both campers were the same year and model. I guess, built on Monday vs Friday, which crew did what, etc makes a difference. Essentially, they are pretty much the same, but if the guy (or gal) that ran the staplegun on one trailer was a little "off" and was working the gluegun the next day, those trailers will be "built" a little differently....

Generally, you can look at a trailer and see most of the "build quality" for the line, but not always.....

Good luck with your choices, no matter what you buy, I'm sure that if it fits your needs you'll enjoy using it.

[dmatt]

Good points there. That is one of the topics I discussed with the Northwood rep when looking at Arctic Fox.

Most manufacturers will run all the models that are being built through the same assembly line at the same time. This way, an assembly worker has to check each until as they work on it and know where things are placed. This leads to mistakes since one model may run wiring through the floor while another has to move it elsewhere.

However, Northwood has a different assembly process. They have individual production runs, building only one model at a time for the entire run. So, depending on how many units are being built, the assembly line will run for 1or 2 weeks building just the 25Y for example. Their view is that this makes it much less likely that a worker will route the wiring in the wrong place, etc. because they won't get confused as to what model they are now working on.

This also helps with other areas as well because everything is built to the same specs as each unit comes through. They also use computer controlled cutting for everything, from windows, doors, and even individual electrical outlets. There is no human cutting holes with routers, etc. so less chance of error. Plus, the specs for each cut wall are stored so that should there be a problem like an accident or leak that caused wall failure, they can cut an identical wall that will fit perfectly.

I thought that was an interesting approach and at least shows an active attempt to control quality

[JRTJH]

That is an attempt to control quality, but on a greedy side, it also is an overt effort to save time and waste. That's a good thing, and I'm not trying to criticize the effort.

When we built our home in Louisiana, the sheetrock crew came in and in 3 days hung all the sheetrock and taped it. As they cut a piece to fit, they threw the "waste" out the front door. This continued until they had all the sheetrock hung. Obviously, the pile outside grew and GREW until it was amazingly HUGE !!!!! My wife and I both commented that there seemed to be more sheetrock outside than inside. The contractor just shrugged his shoulders.

When we moved to Michigan, we needed a controlled building process since we couldn't be present during construction. We looked at several Modular home builders before we settled on what to build. While visiting a couple of the factories, we realized that the builders actually used computer controlled cutting techniques to cut every piece. As for the sheetrock, they cut the smaller pieces out of the waste from larger pieces, etc. Some of the bath angles, etc were actually being cut from window opening left-overs... They did the same with 2x4's and 2x6's in walls and rafters. You'd never find that kind of material management on a "lase' fare stick built" building site.

I think some RV manufacturers have come to the conclusion that resource management is just as important to "bottom line figures" as is quality control.

Sadly, I believe some may even substitute material managment for quality control (so they can keep the same bottom line figures), sometimes even in key areas of concern.....

But, overall, RV's are much better constructed now than they were when we started buying them and using them in the early '70's.

[rdf254]

I have no problem with each one coming off the line a little bit different, but i do have a problem with quality control. I ordered one from the factory over the winter, had it been in a showroom i would NOT have purchased it. The quality of cuts on wood were sloppy, i am embarrassed to show people. Had paid for it so dealer turned me over to the Cougar -ya right buyer beware dont factory order. :confused:

[chris199]

I dont know of the structural differences. Fit and finish is different. We had a Passport 199ML and now have a Cougar 29 REV. Passport was definitely a base model. Cabinets not as nice a finish. Bathroom vanity al with ays seemed to be small and narrow as compared to the Cougar. Mattress is upgraded in Cougar. Thought we had a short queen in the Passport. When we bought the Cougar the bed was much longer.....assumed it was a full queen. Turned out the Cougar had the short queen. The Passport had the extra short queen.
Toilet in the Passport was plastic. Ceramic toilet in the Cougar. Cougar has a little more headroom. Im 6'4"....every little bit helps!
Shower in Passports are generally small. Cougars have a more typical shower....again more headroom in the shower.


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[chris199]

I dont know of the structural differences. Fit and finish is different. We had a Passport 199ML and now have a Cougar 29 REV. Passport was definitely a base model. Cabinets not as nice a finish. Bathroom vanity always seemed to be small and narrow as compared to the Cougar. Mattress is upgraded in Cougar. Thought we had a short queen in the Passport. When we bought the Cougar the bed was much longer.....assumed it was a full queen. Turned out the Cougar had the short queen. The Passport had the extra short queen.
Toilet in the Passport was plastic. Porcelain toilet in the Cougar. Cougar has a little more headroom. Im 6'4"....every little bit helps!
Shower in Passports are generally small. Cougars have a more typical shower....again more headroom in the shower.


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[Maggman]

Hey, went from a 2011 Passport last year to a New Cougar High Country, 321RES, and BIG difference. Lots of upgrades and is put together a bit better. 3 slides and better floorplan, worth the difference in price. A few minor annoyances, floor vent in bathroom is RIGHT in the middle of floor and just a bad spot when stepping out of shower. Entry door closes onto window, behind the door, Stupid design, but rest of TT is amazing. Lots of complements from my neighbors and love the color scheme. Go for the upgrade, you will not be sorry. :D