My Trailer is a Lemon!

[nickofosho]

We’ve had our 2019 Passport 240BHWE for a bit less than a year now. Purchased new last January. We’ve had issue after issue with it and virtually all of the problems are quality control related. From cabinet doors falling off during travel to appliance not being installed properly to appliances failing all together. We have a list of 30 items so far!

I’ve contacted Keystone and our trailer is now at an authorized Keystone dealer (the dealership where we bought the trailer) to verify all of my claims.

I’m asking Keystone to either replace the trailer or refund us our money and buy the trailer back. We are in California and the lemon law states that an accumulation of small issues can classify an RV as a lemon.

Point of all this is two questions:

1.Has anyone else had 20+ issues (big and small) on their trailer is a short amount of time (specifically 2019 models)?

2. Has anyone returned or had their trailer replaced because of problems?

Thanks all!

[sourdough]

Don't know what your issues have been, the magnitude of them and if they were actually Keystone issues or OE issues from the makers of..whatever. Have I had "20 issues"...Please. Have I fixed most of them? Yes. If your issues are like the battery issue....I figure you're out of luck. You might be more specific with the details.

[chuckster57]

I have seen lists of 30-40 items in a $300,000+ motorhome, and we addressed all of them. I may be wrong, but I believe the lemon law applies to repeated repair failures, how many times has it been in for the same issue?

While I may agree that there is quality control issues, it’s not just Keystone. Any issue with anything not BUILT by keystone, isn’t a keystone issue.

[flybouy]

As Danny's post stated more info is needed. What you consider an "issue" someone else may consider "normal workmanship" for an rv. For example, I thought the interior of our unit would have looked a lot better if the factory would have stained the ends of the wood trim where it was cut. Having owned other trailers in the past and looked at many brands & models before I know that that's how they come from the factory. So a little bit of stain on a clean rag and 20 min.of my time and "issue" solved.

Post back with more specifics and what the dealer & Keystone's plans for corrections are and I'm sure folks can relate and comment with greater substance.

[RWRiley]

While I may agree that there is quality control issues, it’s not just Keystone. Any issue with anything not BUILT by keystone, isn’t a keystone issue.

It is a Keystone issue. Don't let them off the hook just because they outsourced it. They select the vendors, negotiate the price, and install it in the trailers they sell.

[chuckster57]

It is a Keystone issue. Don't let them off the hook just because they outsourced it. They select the vendors, negotiate the price, and install it in the trailers they sell.



Keystone acts on the customers behalf for the first year. After that the consumer has to deal with the maker of the component. Keystone is not responsible for the failure of a Dometic refer, they are only the “agent” to get it repaired during the factory warranty period. Dometic warranty is longer than that...just an example.

I will agree that it is a keystone “issue” during the initial warranty period only.

[Canonman]

I was pretty sure our Cougar was a lemon too. Our first TT was bought used and we had no issues. So, when we bought our "new" Cougar we expected the same problem/repair issues with it. Let's just say that we were most unpleasantly surprised to say the least.
We got to know our service writer, Cameron, at CW very well over the next year. They took every issue to Keystone and worked through the warranty process to fix everything on our list plus a couple of other issues they found during their inspection process.
Was it fun? NO! Did it take too long to get approvals and repairs completed? YES! Should Keystone improve their build/quality process? I sure think so.
The key is the dealer and their relationship with Keystone. How the dealer presents the issues is a big factor in getting warranty repair approvals from Keystone. My recommendation, keep the dealer on your side. Be patient and prepare for a long uphill slog. Get to know the service manager as well as the general manager of the dealership. Let them know what the problems are and that you expect their help in getting them fixed. We even got the Keystone district sales rep (met him at an RV show) involved. Be patient, but be firm. You want the problems fixed and fixed right. Remember, any repairs should have an additional warranty. Any problems and you will be back:)
In the end all our issues were resolved, we survived the ordeal and have had 4 years of great camping experiences with plans for next season under way.
Hope your story ends like ours.

[wiredgeorge]

I think you may want to give the dealer/Keystone a chance to address the issues you are having before claiming the trailer is a lemon. That is probably the legal requirement in California.

[JRTJH]

It all depends on the definition of "ISSUES"...

Some people expect a 100% perfect RV at delivery. (probably ain't gonna happen).

Some people are concerned if there's a "water spot on the window" and call it an "ISSUE" while some people accept that there's a small scratch on the vinyl flooring behind the sofa, but it's not visible, so it's an "ISSUE" but doesn't really matter, some people notice three of the staples used to hold a roof panel strip in place don't have putty on them (and the rest do) so it's an "ISSUE" and some people notice that 2 ceiling molding strips are completely missing and that's an "ISSUE"....

If you want us to understand what your "ISSUES" are, please compile a list for us to see what you're talking about. It helps us understand the "breadth and depth" of your "ISSUES"....

[bsmith0404]

Actually, of the 30 plus items you say you have, the three you listed, only one is a “Keystone Issue”. Cabinet doors falling off during travel......these things bounce down the road at 60+ mph, some roads better than others, screws will come loose. Get use to it and get used to checking before/after each trip. Appliance failed.....do you blame your home builder if your refrigerator goes out or do you blame the manufacturer of the refrigerator? Same concept. Appliance being installed incorrectly....ok, that one is a keystone issue, but it’s a one time quick fix from the dealer that probably should have been found and fixed during PDI. You don’t give details as to how it was incorrectly installed, so I’m only guessing.

[wiredgeorge]

Wonder how many of these issues should have been noted in a thorough PDI? Nickofosho, did you do a PDI? Just missed some of these things? They were not an issue during the PDI?

[Tatanka Ob Waci]

Welcome to the Keystone garbage family. Our next one will be a Grand Design. We've owned our 2014 384PK since 2015, purchased new and are now on our 3rd roof, have replaced black water tank, black water valve twice, all of the appliances, 2nd fireplace, etc, etc. Never again!

[CaptnJohn]

Welcome to the Keystone garbage family. Our next one will be a Grand Design. We've owned our 2014 384PK since 2015, purchased new and are now on our 3rd roof, have replaced black water tank, black water valve twice, all of the appliances, 2nd fireplace, etc, etc. Never again!

There is GD and GD after Winnie bought it. They have had their problems too!

[Dave C]

We've probably had 20+ issues with our 2019 Passport. It's been to our dealer, Curtis Trailers, in Portland, OR once already and we are waiting for parts for a second visit. Many were small issues like screen door not latching. Others more major, like hot water tank not heating. Curtis Trailers has been great at getting all the issues fixed. But I agree that the quality of workmanship by Keystone is poor. Take off some of the panels on your trailer and you will see very poor workmanship. We noticed odor from the sink gray water tank and found a screw going right into a drain pipe under the stove. We've had sawdust falling out all over the place because no one cleaned up during the build. These are just a couple examples of the poor workmanship we've found. Best option in my opinion is to work with your local dealer and as long as it is under warranty, get it fixed.

[RET.LEO]

There is GD and GD after Winnie bought it. They have had their problems too!
Yeah, but don't G.D. trailers have like a R-5000 roof and R-2000 sidewalls? LOL!!!:devil:

[sourdough]

Yeah, but don't G.D. trailers have like a R-5000 roof and R-2000 sidewalls? LOL!!!:devil:


To hear it told that's what some folks believe!!:whistling:

[RET.LEO]

There is GD and GD after Winnie bought it. They have had their problems too!

Did GD get worse after Winn. bought them?

[LBlack]

Time after time I read where a new RV/TRAILER/5th wheel is sold and the end user is not satisfied with the quality of the product. On top of that are the comments where most of the quality issues/problems or failures are repaired by the individuals and not the manufactures. So if I broke out my engineering / problem analysis cap and tried to normalize these issues into other industries I would probably use the housing industry as the benchmark.

My test case would be located in Oklahoma simply because this is where I live.

The average new home costs about $150 per square foot in the north east part of the state. For that cost I expect:
1. The cabinets to not fall apart in the first year.
2. The cabinets to ACTUALLY be attached to something on either 12/16/24 inch centers.
3. The drawers to actually move in and out and be capable of holding something larger than a D size battery.
4. I expect the central heat to be capable of pushing air to ALL rooms with enough volume to make a change in the room temperature.
5. I expect the window to NOT leak and destroy the walls of my new home
6. I expect the AC to have been wired properly
7. I expect the appliances to WORK PROPERLY
8. I expect insulation in the walls/ceiling and flooring. I further expect to have the correct insulation to meet the values as stated in either contract or sales brochure.
9. I expect the pluming, both incoming and outgoing, to be complete and tested.
10. I expect the roof to be installed correctly and not leak.
11. I expect the foundation to have been assembled correctly and be of structure qualified to hold the weight and stresses of the structure above.

However, if I make these expectations in the RV industry then people just laugh or worse. So if I just put this back into the basic cost analysis I wind up with this:

My 2018 MHC 381TH with the 4 season package and full time living options listed for $242 per square foot (list price, not what I paid) and has had deficiencies in every single expectation listed. EVERY SINGLE ONE.

I agree with whoever said this is not JUST a Keystone problem. This is a customer problem. We as customers keeping buying homes that are NOT as advertised and we remain silent when we are on the hook for solving quality or design problems.

Soap box time for the day has ended. It is only 33 degrees outside and my wife and I are cold. Guess I will spend the rest of the day trying to figure out why our expensive mobile box will not keep us comfortable

[goducks]

Welcome to the Keystone garbage family. Our next one will be a Grand Design. We've owned our 2014 384PK since 2015, purchased new and are now on our 3rd roof, have replaced black water tank, black water valve twice, all of the appliances, 2nd fireplace, etc, etc. Never again!

Don't expect perfection form GD either. They ALL have problems.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oIW8WSjVEcE

[flybouy]

The "average home" is not built to be towed down a pot holed road at 75 m.p.h . so I don't see that as an "apples to apples" comparison.

[chuckster57]

Did GD get worse after Winn. bought them?

I worked at a dealership for 5 years and they carried the GD line. I can say the quality didn’t change, but you could see the design and paint schemes influence. Would I buy one.... yes, almost did twice just couldn’t take the mistreatment from the sales staff.

[pdaniel]

Interesting to read the initial comment and all of the replies concerning the manufacture of our RVs.
I am on RV number 6 having owned mostly towables and one truck camper of differing manufacturers.
Two towables I had were notorious for plumbing leaks. Easy fix. One towable, a Cougar was a nightmare of issues from the terrible cable slide system to the power supply. A fridge that did not cool sufficiently and a forced air furnace that didn’t force much air (with the exception of exhaust outside). An “arctic insulation” package that was far from being considered insulation.
So, after possibly giving Keystone another chance, we passed on their Montana for our extended living. I found many of the same design issues with Montana as I did with our former Cougar. So, we opted for a manufacturer that I had never heard of. And, yes, there are some things I have repaired (easier to repair a piece of trim that take it back to the dealer to fix-cost of fuel) but other than that I have a much better experience snowbirding in the fifth wheel be bought from Brand X than Keystone.

[pdaniel]

Yes, GD has the same manufacturing processes as many other manufacturers. I bought a 2019 Solitude, a GD/Winnebago product. In all of the RVs I have owned the Solitude has been the best so far.

[pdaniel]

Some people on the GD FB sites claim there is a difference. I have talked with a factory rep and he told me that Winnebago has a “hands-off” approach and nothing has changed. So, ya know what they say about opinions....

[RET.LEO]

Winnebago is just the owner of Grand Design and just recently Newmar, not involved in production. Same as Thor owns many companies: Jayco, Entegra, Airstream etc etc

[RWRiley]

I agree with whoever said this is not JUST a Keystone problem. This is a customer problem. We as customers keeping buying homes that are NOT as advertised and we remain silent when we are on the hook for solving quality or design problems.

100% right. And the thing I don't understand is those that defend the industry, and say it's not their fault..... In fact, I am tired of hearing it. But, I count myself among the guilty customers that LBlack is talking about.....If I didn't love camping so much I would never put up with crap the industry puts out.

[foldbak]

Here we go :popcorn:

They're all lemons. It's just the way it is. You can read my post and all about my 2018 Cougar. WAY too many issues to list. Every window replaced and it's currently having the entire roof replaced. All at warranty. You got to fight to get your issues resolved but with a good dealership on your side you can win.

Good luck.

[rjrelander]

For what it's worth, we have had very few issues with our trailer and when something happens I just fix it. Between shingles, siding, windows, lawn, landscaping, driveway, doors, cabinets, sinks, toilets, appliances, carpet, tile, sheet rock, painting, and general maintenance, our regular house has been a lot more labor intensive and we don't drag that one down the road every weekend. :-)

[sourdough]

"I agree with whoever said this is not JUST a Keystone problem. This is a customer problem. We as customers keeping buying homes that are NOT as advertised and we remain silent when we are on the hook for solving quality or design problem"

Excerpt from LBlack post 18.

100% right. And the thing I don't understand is those that defend the industry, and say it's not their fault..... In fact, I am tired of hearing it. But, I count myself among the guilty customers that LBlack is talking about.....If I didn't love camping so much I would never put up with crap the industry puts out.

Post from RWRiley #26


LBlack's post is very long and outlines a myriad of issues with the RV all the while saying it should be built like a S&B for 150 sq.ft. Sorry, don't get that. Now I've not priced a new home in his area but I have in many areas....not such expensive areas BUT 150 doesn't get in the picture. In my little off the wall, unwanted berg in W TX you can't build a NEW house for less than about 210 sq. ft. That is of about August of last year. When I retired I swore, SWORE I would not stay in my town. Let's think about what that would cost; Lubbock, TX - 225sq. ft.; Reeds Spring, MO; 250 sq. ft. (5 yrs ago); Wakulla County FL: avg. 300 sq. ft. and the list goes on and on because I was actively pursuing building a new home. So for real life in most places 150 won't be accurate.

Now we are discussing building a S&B sitting on a slab with the same roofing, appliance etc. requirements vs an RV....but wait, they don't go down a highway at 70mph, it doesn't have running gear to gripe about. That foundation isn't "bent" up and down every time it is set up, it's not subjected to all kinds of torque from twisting and turning...again the list goes on and on. Plus, it is built so you can actually "hook it up" to a tow vehicle and take off down the road. Try that with your S&B.

RWRiley's statement is just contradictory from the gitgo. I read most every post on here. I've not seen anyone "defending" the industry; there are those that understand it and know you have to live with it if you want to RV. Others, as RWRiley and every other person with a mindset like that, continue to purchase the product knowing what it is then rail against the wind about the poor quality blaming who? Themselves.

I guess I don't get it. Buying an RV is a known situation. Either avoid it or join in and accept it. It does absolutely zero good for the owner or anyone else to just rant about things you knew you were getting...to what end? Will all that change the direction of RV manufacturing? Absolutely not. It's pointless and has no objective. IMO if you hate it, if you feel like you made a poor choice knowingly but can't accept it...divest yourself of it. But don't keep buying them, enjoying them then carry on about how much you hate them. As RWRiley said...yes, I am tired of hearing it.

[JRTJH]

If my grandfather was still alive, he'd reads this thread, walk out back by the chicken coop, spit his tobacco juice toward the chickens and say, "Damn, boy, listen to them bantie hens, standin' by the fence and bitchin' cause they ain't got nothin' to bitch about but each other and how hard it is to lay them damn little eggs. . If they was full size chickens, they'd know how easy they got it with them bantie eggs"

[sourdough]

What I read in the posts I referenced and those like them is like going in the shop, turn on the bandsaw, know it's as sharp as can be, decide to slide my fingers through it then raise cain because it just cut them off....the blade's too sharp, the band was running to fast...those folks that made that thing ought to be sued....What??

[JRTJH]

Comparing a travel trailer to a stick built house is impossible. That's been covered. As for cost per square foot. The 15'9" Airstream Bambi starts at $55,ooo and goes up from there. That's, by my calculations, about $605 a square foot and it still comes with a warranty to fix what breaks.... But there's always "free coffee" in the waiting room.

Luxury (quality) fifth wheels in the 40' range start at about $150,000 and go up from there. They also have a warranty. One of the "occasional members" of this forum traded his Keystone for a DRV, traded that for a New Horizons (custom luxury fifth wheel) and it also came with a warranty. BTW, he knows the factory service department supervision on a first name basis.... Trust me when I say that you can buy 5 or 6 Passports for the price of a single New Horizons, warranty included..... Oh, yes, a 40' fifth wheel priced at $175,000 is roughly $547 a square foot, so comparing to a "builders spec house" at $150 a square foot (around here it's more like $250/sqft) is like comparing a Hideout to a Airstream.....

Heck, last I heard, even Rolls Royce has a warranty service department at every dealership, so …..

[atkinsb3]

I only had 13 Items on my 2018 2670BH...to start out. Took it back to the dealer after it's 30 day break in and it sat on their lot for weeks/months with nothing on the list fixed and my calls going unanswered. They caused more problems with it than they repaired and the list grew. So I feel your pain. Just decided to fix things myself. At least now I know they're done right, or at a minimum to my satisfaction.

[Roscommon48]

Don't know what 'issues' you have, minor? major?



But the part about getting your trailer replaced, Montana did replaced our new 5th wheel within 6 months of our purchase. But, our issue was frame flexing....they had it at their shop in Goshen, IN and replaced a complete wall and they couldn't fix it so...a new one.


So, RVs do get replaced....at times. But don't expect it to be changed out because of minor issues.


I figure your dealer will be able to address most of your issues.

[MrRobalo]

I usually stay away from controversial post but having been on the other side working for a major boat company with 2 different brand and types of boats. I have empathy for customers with problems with there products. One boat line was a HIGH END offshore fishing boats and the other a pleasure line of boats. I was the customer service / warranty manager. and was over quality control department. I started off in the grinding room and worked my way up to regional sales manager so I had first hand experience on how things SHOULD BE BUILT.
When my phone rang I picked it up the same way no matter which boat customer called . ( thank goodness the internet wasn't around back then) Yes there were customer warranty problems that would Need Attention and the dealership would need to take care of it. 75% of the time the dealer would fix it . We would send the parts to them and my transport would bring back the old parts on there next delivery there. If it was a major problem we would backhaul the boat to the factory and fix it or replace it . Sounds simple enough. Well it wasn’t !
The problems a lot of times was caused by the customer ,like bilge pumps for a example people left it on and the water would get pumped out then it’s sat running until it overheated and stopped working. We sent out 100’s over the year and the manufacture swopped them out. Now the problem arises at the dealership as they wanted us to pay there normal mechanic shop rate to fix it and that wasn’t going to happen especially when a shop guy would R & R them (making minimum wage most times) and they would receive a set amount. However the biggest problem was the some dealers just DIDN'T WANT TO DO WARRANTY WORK PERIOD!!! They just wanted to sell boats, MAKE THERE MONEY and could care less about the customer after they couldn’t see the trailer brake lights when the customer left. We also had dealers that took care of the customer fixed what they needed to and there the ones that were in business for years, passing the dealership down the family tree. So you see it’s not just the mfg. Problems but who they bought the boat from. Customers would drive from say New York to buy a boat from a Fl. Dealer because they would save a lot of $$$$$. Then they would expect a dealer near them to fix any problems they might have. So tell me this doesn’t happen in all types of purchases. We all want to save money but it comes with a cost and that’s where a lot of problems happen.
Yes theres quality control to help eliminate problems before the boat left but then the customer gets there new boat and run it balls to the wall through some sloppy seas day after day and wonder why the cabin cabinets would get damaged. I fished tournaments all over the East Coast and I did everything to make sure I would be the first one to a bait pod 10 miles away just so future customers would see how good the boat preformed and hopefully buy one. Little did they know I had a pile of broken parts stowed away and when I brought the boat back the employees bitched because they had to fix it . This is one way it helped us build better boats eliminating production problems before they would happen. I don’t know how the RV manufactures try to improve there products but the bottom line is buy your product from the best dealership you can near you as the end result will be better in the long run.
I’m learning a lot here being a new camper and it has helped to eliminate a lot of things on my almost new camper that doesn’t Have any warranty. I have had it for 2 months now and our first trip is next month ( just got my tow vehicle recently) and have worked on it adding accessories, rewiring front end, cleaning ,waxing and figuring out as much as I can. I knew going into this there would be Large costs adding things we wanted and need. I saved a lot of money buying a almost new camper ( previous owner only had it 6 months and as far as I could see they probably hardly never used. So I’m hoping preventative maintenance and time working on it will pay off thanks to all of you.

[Ken / Claudia]

I sure am a big supporter of the idea that preventative maintenance is the key to the owning a RV or boat. Also a car or house, but not to the same degree.
Without what we call PM at work. Any RV will be crap and worthless in a few years depending what part of the country you live in. The "I will fix it when it breaks" is to costly in my mind.
Of course you need a good RV to start with, to get that, do a complete PDI.

[ChuckS]

I feel for the OP having so many issues with his RV. But.. it’s a home on wheels that takes a beating from the road ways, temp changes, etc..

GD isn’t any better, neither is FR, nor Jayco... big issues to me would be appliance failures, frame issues, cracks in the sides, electrical wiring...

Cabinet doors coming loose, trim moulding , etc are “normal” occurrences you just have to learn to be prepared for. Learn how to fix thins, be proactive, educate yourself on how each appliance works, how to repair, etc...

My latest RV IS A 2014.. Took back to dealership one time for stress cracks on the rear cap.. Repairs were completed .. no further occurrences.

Latest repair on my 2014 was removing the inadequate SM screws used to hold the awning rear rail on to the filon side wall.. used tri lock rivets.. it won’t come loose again and is a permanent repair.

With resources like this group, Utube videos, common sense and some basic mechanical and electrical skill sets the average RV owner should be able to keep his RV in good shape for many years.

YMMV

[LewisB]

Excerpt from sourdough post 29.
...I guess I don't get it. Buying an RV is a known situation. Either avoid it or join in and accept it. It does absolutely zero good for the owner or anyone else to just rant about things you knew you were getting...to what end? Will all that change the direction of RV manufacturing? Absolutely not. It's pointless and has no objective. IMO if you hate it, if you feel like you made a poor choice knowingly but can't accept it...divest yourself of it. But don't keep buying them, enjoying them then carry on about how much you hate them. As RWRiley said...yes, I am tired of hearing it.

Well said! Looks like the OP last checked in the day after asking his question. Lots of good responses - probably not what he wanted to hear.

For poster #18, I'd recommend you redo your cost/square foot analysis and compare the build quality of a Keystone RV to a hand-built Bentley 4 door sedan. If you are going to compare things that are wildly different, might as well get really wild.:lol:

[Alpine]

Well then... High fives to ya!!!

[German Shepherd Guy]

Way to go. Nice to hear of a good ending now and then, especially now.
Is it the same model and year?

[travelin texans]

No, Keystone allowed us to choose from either new dealer stock or wait and have a 2021 model delivered from the Oregon factory. We found a new model and year at a dealership.

And you went over this one with fine tooth comb & are absolutely sure it's better than the first? After all it's still a RV!
Now your old "lemon" is sitting on their lot waiting for some other lucky owner.

[JRTJH]

To be able to put this into perspective and learn from the event, we still need to know what those "30+ issues" really were. There's a significant difference in "issues" related to wheels falling off, axles breaking, frames bent, walls separating from the roof etc and "issues" related to things like cabinet doors not aligned, window shade isn't mounted level, leaking cold water fitting on kitchen sink, mattress not comfortable, or other "similar issues"...

What/why was the trailer not acceptable? To date, there's no mention of "what was wrong"....

[nickofosho]

The finest tooth comb I could find. I was also in close contact with the dealer before I picked up the trailer and explained my situation and expectations multiple times. The trailer is as perfect as trailers get. I expect minor problems down the road, but after our first week with it, no issues to report. The last trailer had over a dozen problem within the first trip.

[nickofosho]

I’m not going to list the official list of issues just so it can be picked apart. Does it really matter? Keystone agreed that the issues were extreme and numerous enough to replace the trailer. Hope everyone stops settling and starts speaking up. That’s the only way the RV industry might, however unlikely, change.

I think I’ll just enjoy my new rig. Stay safe and healthy everyone.

[skids]

"I’m not going to list the official list of issues just so it can be picked apart. Does it really matter?"

I would say that for purposes of this forum, those are some empty words.

[Northofu1]

I'm sure other folks would like to know as they might be in this situation now or in the future . It would be neighbourly to know what you were up against, and type of items warranted a replacement / buyout.

1.Has anyone else had 20+ issues (big and small) on their trailer is a short amount of time (specifically 2019 models)?

2. Has anyone returned or had their trailer replaced because of problems?

Normally when you ask for advice or for experience you're going to get people that think they know best and will be vocal about it. There are a lot of people that are here that just sit and follow and don't often post and heed some of the advice and experience of the other campers. It would be nice if you shared what your experience is. Or else what other reason would you join a forum to try to take and never give back.

[travelin texans]

I’m not going to list the official list of issues just so it can be picked apart. Does it really matter? Keystone agreed that the issues were extreme and numerous enough to replace the trailer. Hope everyone stops settling and starts speaking up. That’s the only way the RV industry might, however unlikely, change.

I think I’ll just enjoy my new rig. Stay safe and healthy everyone.

It DOES really matter if others are having the same issues trying to get resolved.
As you said they were enough Keystone agreed on a replacement so most must have been serious.
In your case what if someone picks them apart, you've got your new one so why not try to help the next guy!

[LewisB]

No, Keystone allowed us to choose from either new dealer stock or wait and have a 2021 model delivered from the Oregon factory. We found a new model and year at a dealership.

So, you were unhappy with the quality of a new trailer that had "virtually all of the problems are quality control related" as stated in the OP? You complained enough that the dealer allowed you to turn in a 2019 Passport 240BHWE and the manufacturer gave you a blank check to pick any other trailer on the lot or in the new model line? All at no cost to you? This was not a trade-in? You didn't have to give them a dime? Is that all correct?

Every owner has this same possibility...take your trailer back to the dealer, pick your choice of any trailer on the lot (or wait for a new model next year), and drive away with your choice. Question is: how much is the check going to be for you to make that happen?

I don't mean to offend, but when something "seems too good to be true, ..." That's why seeing your list would be important to us...along with ALL the details on the trade...maybe there is something you can teach us...or...

[Northofu1]

He's seen our posts, maybe he just doesn't want to post his list. This was his second post asking for help, that's all some people do.

[nickofosho]

He's seen our posts, maybe he just doesn't want to post his list. This was his second post asking for help, that's all some people do.
Well, that was kind of snarky...

[Alpine]

I tip my hat to you for your persistence! :bow:

[LewisB]

That’s a great write up that very well might help others! Thanks for taking the time to share. Sorry you had to go through the experience. Thanks for your persistence and participation in the forum!

[Northofu1]

Well, that was kind of snarky...

Just a tad, not all Canadians are nice. :lol:

I apologize for being snarky.

I also thank you for posting your experience in detail, someone out there is really going to appreciate what you posted.

Thanks again for taking the time.

[MrRobalo]

Having worked for large boat manufacture ( of 2 different brands at the same facility) I can see how the process looks like it took so long to come about. I will be the first to admit things do make it out of the plant that should have not happen but due to human error things happen. Q C can only do so much and it is up to each employee to do there part to follow strict guidelines. However the first thing that can go wrong is a disgruntled employee and they know just how to do it without getting caught . We had 2 guys in lamination that were mad that they didn’t get a larger raise so they Sabotaged the stringers lamination schedule in the boat and glassed them down like they should so it looked by QC. However they didn’t wet out the fiberglass properly so it would fail when the customer used the boat in the ocean. It didn’t cause any life threatening problems but once I flew up there and drove the boat I could tell something was not right and had the dealer get it ready to come back to the plant. Long story short we cut the boat open and found the problem and had the 2 employees arrested. They admitted to doing it and to 2 more boats. ( witch were also removed from dealers stock ) We prosecutor them to the extent of the law ( they did prison time) as the bare boats alone that left the plant costed over $ 175,000.00. And took a additional 6 weeks to replace them to the dealers/ customers. We stripped what we could and bulldozed the rest of them ( on video to use in court ) These were a legitimate claim but for every one there were a dozen others that the customer just didn’t want that boat they bought for whatever reason. I flew out a many of time to inspect and drive the said boat (with a lawyer in tow) Most of the time the owners didn’t know how to properly handle the boat, overloaded it on one side , wife didn’t like it ( no head in it) too big for them to handle and I could go on. So you see the dealer is our eyes in the field and they too make mistakes rigging it properly and some just didn’t want to do warranty work as we didn’t pay full retail for them to repair it. I can just say I’m glad I was working there before the internet was in full stream.

The customer handled this situation very well and what he said was true and Keystone handled It too I’m sure as there warranty states and the steps were followed by the dealer as well. However all of our SETTLEMENTS Came with a clause forbidding the customer to permit any Disclosure of Confidential Settlement Materials and Negotiations .
And this is probably why he didn’t say anything first and just hope this doesn’t come back to bite him.
I’m very happy to hear he is now happy with his KEYSTONE.

[skids]

Nickofosho, you earned it.

[sourdough]

Nickofosho, thanks for the detailed reply. I know you didn't want to respond due to the worry of folks trying to pick apart the list saying it was "normal" or should be fixed by the owner. I don't think they will, it took a lot of time to post that list and the events that unfolded - and it is appreciated. I'm glad it turned out the way it did for you and I think others will benefit from it.

Your experience sort of underscores what I've said/thought for a long time; some units get through the manufacturing process in great shape while some, not a lot, come out like a bunch of 2nd graders put it together. Some things you can catch on a PDI, others are more "hidden". Time, and luck, will tell. As I told DW when we bought this new trailer sight unseen, all we can do is cross our fingers and pray that this is one of the "good ones".

Again, thanks for the detailed reply and congrats on your success. I'm sure it will benefit others. Hopefully Keystone will take note, as they have with the Bullet floors, and start stepping up on these failures and in the end put more effort into their final products - we'll have to wait and see if that will happen.

[nickofosho]

Sorry to do this, but I decided to delete the "whole story". The release I signed with Keystone didn't specifically say I could share my story, but the specific details are off limits. I feel my previous post fell within the release guidelines, but just to be safe, it's gone. Thanks to everyone who contributed!

[skids]

Sorry to do this, but I decided to delete the "whole story". The release I signed with Keystone didn't specifically say I could share my story, but the specific details are off limits. I feel my previous post fell within the release guidelines, but just to be safe, it's gone. Thanks to everyone who contributed!

But it didn’t say you couldn’t? Really?

[Logan X]

Sorry to do this, but I decided to delete the "whole story". The release I signed with Keystone didn't specifically say I could share my story, but the specific details are off limits. I feel my previous post fell within the release guidelines, but just to be safe, it's gone. Thanks to everyone who contributed!

Man! I thought I was taking crazy pills when everyone was talking about your post and I couldn’t find it. Haha!:facepalm:

[Gegrad]

Oh yeah, I didn't get to see it either. Darn. At least I am not crazy for not seeing it.

[chuckster57]

I understand your reasons for deleting your post. And I think before there is any more discussion about your decision I will lock this thread.