choosing a new tow vehicle

[Akegb3]

Hi all,


I'm in comparison shopping mode for purchasing a new tow vehicle (truck) for our 2016 Keystone Passport (195RBWE).


We've been using our 2003 Ford F-150 Supercrew (4x4) since we purchased the trailer and it has performed "ok", except for steep and/or lengthy hills. Second trip we had a blown sparkplug and ever since have worried about another one.


We don't plan to upgrade this camper to anything bigger in the future, but do want something that will tow without any worries. I had been looking at the 250/2500s series from Ford/Chevy(GMC)/RAM, but have recently discussed the 150/1500s with my very knowledgeable son-in-law who tows his race truck with a RAM 3500 DW Diesel.



Apparently the new 150/1500s towing capabilities are far better than they were in 2003. Does anyone have a compelling reason why I should not consider a 150/1500 model? I definitely don't want a Diesel due to their higher maintenance costs. And, it appears the 250/2500s towing capacity is not much higher than the 150/1500s.


Thanks in advance for your input.
Ed

[ADQ K9]

In your situation I would be looking at the door stickers on the vehicles you are interested in. F150 trucks I have seen vary in payload fro 800 to 1800# a 250/ 2500 will give you a little more control to keep the tail from waging the dog as well as a longer wheelbase.

[travelin texans]

Hi all,


I'm in comparison shopping mode for purchasing a new tow vehicle (truck) for our 2016 Keystone Passport (195RBWE).


We've been using our 2003 Ford F-150 Supercrew (4x4) since we purchased the trailer and it has performed "ok", except for steep and/or lengthy hills. Second trip we had a blown sparkplug and ever since have worried about another one.


We don't plan to upgrade this camper to anything bigger in the future, but do want something that will tow without any worries. I had been looking at the 250/2500s series from Ford/Chevy(GMC)/RAM, but have recently discussed the 150/1500s with my very knowledgeable son-in-law who tows his race truck with a RAM 3500 DW Diesel.



Apparently the new 150/1500s towing capabilities are far better than they were in 2003. Does anyone have a compelling reason why I should not consider a 150/1500 model? I definitely don't want a Diesel due to their higher maintenance costs. And, it appears the 250/2500s towing capacity is not much higher than the 150/1500s.


Thanks in advance for your input.
Ed
Apparently the newer GM 1500 & 2500s are increasing their payloads for the 2020 models, so as mentioned check the drivers door sticker on ANY truck you may be interested in. If it we're me I'd be looking at 250/2500s (probably not the 250) just so when the DW decides she wants something a bit more roomy you'll be good up to a point.
As to diesels having high maintenance cost I'd have to disagree. From Jan '05 to Jan '19 drove 2 different 3500 DRW GMC Duramax's as a daily drivers for 300k+ miles with a 125k+ towing between them & never noticed they cost any more to operate than my previous gasser's.

[skids]

Consider other uses for the tow vehicle. I towed a Jayco 195RB which was a 3500 lb maximum axle and was no problem at all with my 3.5L F150 ecoboost. We have upsized our camper to a Bullet 248 which may present challenges to that truck. I haven’t towed it more than 70 miles just to get it home, so I can’t give it a thumbs up yet. I worry about descending steep grades. I was fine with the Jayco but the wife said she was unhappy with the layout. So, if I were to do it all over again, I would consider something more substantial than a 6 clyinder truck...

[slow]

Our story: We started with a 2001 F150 with 1800+ lbs of payload capacity to pull our 23RB in 2014. In 2015, we decided to upgrade the TV and looked at F150s and F250s (gas) for the same reasons you are. Ended up with the F250 gasser with nearly 2700 lbs of payload since it was lower in price to buy new (on the Ford distribution lot) than a less capable but maximum payload capacity F150 which we would have had to factory order.

Fast forward to last summer, we traded in the 23R and bought a FW that the F250 can handle within all specs, but the maximum payload F150 would not have.

IMO, Go for the F250 (or a 2500 of your choice) and you will not regret it. If considering a F350 (or a 3500 of your choice) then may as well go diesel to be able to take advantage of the payload capacity in the future.

[flybouy]

If the opportunity is present by more truck than you think you'll need. A larger margin of safety or capability is always better than not having it when Mr. Murphy brings his laws to bear.

As a side note This thought also works well when buying beer to!:cool:

[sourdough]

Hi all,


I'm in comparison shopping mode for purchasing a new tow vehicle (truck) for our 2016 Keystone Passport (195RBWE).


We've been using our 2003 Ford F-150 Supercrew (4x4) since we purchased the trailer and it has performed "ok", except for steep and/or lengthy hills. Second trip we had a blown sparkplug and ever since have worried about another one.


We don't plan to upgrade this camper to anything bigger in the future, but do want something that will tow without any worries. I had been looking at the 250/2500s series from Ford/Chevy(GMC)/RAM, but have recently discussed the 150/1500s with my very knowledgeable son-in-law who tows his race truck with a RAM 3500 DW Diesel.



Apparently the new 150/1500s towing capabilities are far better than they were in 2003. Does anyone have a compelling reason why I should not consider a 150/1500 model? I definitely don't want a Diesel due to their higher maintenance costs. And, it appears the 250/2500s towing capacity is not much higher than the 150/1500s.


Thanks in advance for your input.
Ed


Ed, I don't know anything about your family but your age, married or not, kids or not will make all the difference in how that line I highlighted goes. We are retired and just 2 of us. I would have told you unequivocally 6-8 months ago, after many years of RV ownership, that there as zero chance, ZERO that DW and I would have a 5th wheel. Fast forward to now; DW changed her mind and we are seriously looking at 5th wheels to purchase. That kind of scenario can and does play out for LOTS of folks and if you have a young family the chances are that it will.

If you are positive you will never want anything bigger than what you have a current 1/2 ton will do. If not go with a 3/4. 2020 is seeing some changes in payloads due to ?? I don't know. From past experience I went from right at 1600lbs. payload in a 2013 Ram 1500 to right at 3100 in the 3/4 I just got rid of - almost double. I just bought a new 2019 3500 and it is 3986. So pick your poison basically.....and know your plans or buying trucks year in and year out can get expensive.

I don't know the 2020 specs on the 1/2 tons but it seems the big 3 are "reaching for the stars" in trying to up each other in payload and towing capacities. With your current trailer, and if you never plan to get larger, any of the big 3 1/2 tons would do an admirable job-yes truck capabilities have changed dramatically in the last several years. Many like, and tout, the abilities of the Ford EcoBoost V6. I'm not a fan simply because I don't think a 213 c.i. sv6 boosted with thousands of $$ of add ons to be like a big block can in fact do so reliably or economically. That is JMO and I know others disagree. Any of the big 3 big V8s will handle your situation in a 1/2 ton....if you don't decide to just get bigger and...…. Good luck and you will definitely love towing with a new truck.

[Akegb3]

Thanks for all the input! As I expected, most folks lean towards the “go big or go home” method. But, as I said, we don’t plan to upgrade in the future. We’re retired, in our sixties and live in Alaska where the camping season is short.

So, after doing the following comparison and taking your input into consideration, I’m back to leaning towards a Ram 1500.

Engine. Payload. GCWR. Max.TWR
1500. 5.7L Hemi. 1970 . 17000. 11470
2500. 5.7L Hemi. 2350. 18300. 11,180

The additional GVWR of 2000lbs in the 2500 along with the cost of the vehicle doesn’t seem worth it to me!

Thanks again!
Ed

[slow]

Be sure to confirm the payload rating on the actual TV you consider purchasing by checking the sticker on the driver's door pillar. The actual payload rating for the TV can be substantially different than what the website claims based on trim level and options.

[sourdough]

Look at THE truck you intend to buy and look at the yellow and white sticker inside the driver door that gives you the payload and other weights. The weights you listed for payload seem a little suspect to me so do your research. All of those numbers depend on body style, bed length, drive train, trim etc. I don't know, nor have I looked at, the new truck payloads with the 5.7. It appears to me that you may be looking at numbers for different style trucks..I don't know.

All that aside, I think the 5.7 for that trailer (if you never get larger) is fine. I've owned several 5.7s and liked them all. Look at the rear axle ratio. With a trailer that small a 3.55 will work fine, a 3.73 would be better. The new 8 speed is a gem. I would think the payload of the 2500 would increase more but I don't know. Look them over and do your research. I've owned GM trucks, dozens of new Fords and now Ram trucks. I have chosen Rams. They all have the pros and cons.

[linux3]

Our Passport 195RB is pretty close.
I just traded in my Silverado 1500 5.3L V8 and trailer package. Not the Max Trailer the plain trailer package.
I bought another Silverado 1500 with the trailer package because I wanted some extra toys but the truck is fine.
We average around 8k miles a year pulling. I've been over the Cumberland Gap in TN. We've been to Boulder CO and all over everywhere and the truck pulled the trailer easily.

We have NO plans to get a bigger trailer, if lightning were to strike our TT we'd buy another as close to it as we could.
We go to RV shows and talk about how our TT is better than (insert any TT here).

Our style of travel is to wonder around and see what there is to see. This involves driving through towns, parking in visitor lots to get info on local attractions and more than a few times parallel parking on city streets. You just can't do that with a 38' 5'er.

If you step up to a 2500 F250 type the ride will be harsh and fuel MPG will kinda suck.

My truck is my daily driver and TV. For your size trailer and mine a 1500 with a proper gear ratio, mine is 3.42:1 and a good engine will fill both roles and do both well.
BTW, max load is 1750 LBS, that's GVW - truck weight.
Max tow is 9300 LBS, a laughable number to be sure but way under what I'm towing.

[Bisjoe]

The Passport 195RBWE is about the same length and less weight than our trailer. We have no issues at all pulling with our 2017 F150 Supercab 5.0 V8 (385 Horsepower) with tow package which according to all of the stickers and charts can pull 9,000 lbs. While I don't foresee a bigger trailer any time soon, I wanted to stay 4-5,000 lbs. below the limit for peace of mind. The big 3 all offer some great deals with $10-12,000 off the sticker price now on 2019s and 2020s.

[bbells]

You are right to worry about popping spark plugs out of your 2003 f150. You definitely will. They only had 2 threads holding them in. I have owned every kind of vehicle for towing my trailers. The Toyota Tundra is the only one that gave me enough power, control and reliability. It has almost 400hp, a 38 gal fuel tank, and sway control.

[ISLANDER1089]

I have a 2018 Keystone Cougar 22RBS and tow it with a 2015 F150 w/3.5 L V-6. I have towed it from Toronto to Los Angeles, Portland, OR and down east to the Canadian Maritimes with zero issues.

[GeoZ]

Ed, you need to look at a Chevy or GMC Max-Tow 1500 pickup. The Max-tow was specifically designed for trailer towing with increased rear suspension, engine and transmission cooling enhancements and rear differential gear ratio. The prior body style offered a 3:73 ratio while the new body style went with a 3:42 ratio. A 5.3V8 gas engine is all you need to pull your trailer with power to spare. I've had 3 Max-tow Chevy's and it gets the job done. My current trailer is a 2019 Cougar 32RLI, 36ft long and it pulls great. The bonus of the 1500 is if you drive as your daily driver your not fueling a thirsty 2500.

[Northofu1]

Ed, you need to look at a Chevy or GMC Max-Tow 1500 pickup. The Max-tow was specifically designed for trailer towing with increased rear suspension, engine and transmission cooling enhancements and rear differential gear ratio. The prior body style offered a 3:73 ratio while the new body style went with a 3:42 ratio. A 5.3V8 gas engine is all you need to pull your trailer with power to spare. I've had 3 Max-tow Chevy's and it gets the job done. My current trailer is a 2019 Cougar 32RLI, 36ft long and it pulls great. The bonus of the 1500 is if you drive as your daily driver your not fueling a thirsty 2500.

I had a 2017 GMC Sierra 1500 SLE. Although it was not max tow and had the 3.42 rear end, stability wise, it hauled my trailer nicely. I was concerned about the transmission. It had a wicked 3rd to 2nd downshift thump. When I took it to the dealer he said they see, to have that problem and eventually they will be sending out a recall to flash the trans computer. I wasn't entirely impressed with that answer.
A half year later I traded it in and got the 2500. Night and day. My transmission is a lot smoother in this truck. as far as fuel goes, it is a little harder on gas but it's not that bad, the thing that makes it noticeable is the bigger tank. I now have a vw winter beater to relieve the KM's on the truck.

If the OP has an inkling of moving up trailer sizes, I would go 3/4 unless your going all the way up :lol:

[JRTJH]

... I have owned every kind of vehicle for towing my trailers. The Toyota Tundra is the only one that gave me enough power, control and reliability. ...

... I traded it in and got the 2500. Night and day. ...

bbells,

When I read your post, I immediately had a question about your comment,
I have owned every kind of vehicle... Does your ownership include heavy duty (3/4 or 1 ton) trucks? or is your ownership limited to half ton trucks, SUV's and such?

The reason I ask is that your next comment, about the Tundra being the "only one that gave you enough power" to mean that you've never towed with a large displacement gas engine or a diesel engine in a HD truck. If you had that "comparative experience" I've no doubt that you'd not be saying "Only Tundra....." There are multiple model trucks from many manufacturers that will out-tow/out-perform a Tundra, many without even "breaking a sweat".....

In its "vehicle class" the Tundra is competitive (according to some people) but there's no way on earth that it can compete with any of the HD trucks currently in the towing market.

Dan's comment, comparing his 1500 and 2500 towing experience is typical of those who have towed with both a light duty and a heavy duty truck.

ADDED: The reason I'm asking is not to challenge your experience (although I'm sure it comes across that way) but rather to comment, for the benefit of someone who may have a Chev/GMC 1500 or a Ford F150 and is having problems with towing. I wouldn't want that member to consider that "maybe I should trade for a Tundra so I can stay in the half ton class"....

[FBO Cookie Monster]

For. atrailer that size, an HDPP F-150 may be perfect.
Crewcab, 2500lb payload, 13000 lb trailer.
You have a nicer driving daily driver that can do the grunt work when needed.
If you were using a truck to exclusively tow, go for 3/4 gas, or 1 ton diesel. But for someone like me who tows infrequently and commutes and drives daily, it was a great choice. Can even pull some small fifth wheels with it.

[duh1]

You will not regret getting a 250/ 2500 diesel. They tow much more solidly than the lighter 1500 varieties. I moved up and never looked back or regretted it for a moment t.

[ctbruce]

Why is there fear/anxiety going to a 250/0 or a 350/0 compared to a 150/0?

If you are afraid of going bigger just because it is "BIG", then you should be equally afraid of going too small just because it is too "SMALL".

[Roscommon48]

you will always have an issue with pulling up hill with a f150, just go slow and you'll do fine.


get the biggest gas engine that you can for pulling too.

[capnkirk4]

file:///C:/Users/Kirk-Lola/Documents/TrailerLifeTowGuide2020.pdf

[sourdough]

file:///C:/Users/Kirk-Lola/Documents/TrailerLifeTowGuide2020.pdf


This appears to be a link to a file on your computer which can't be opened. Open the link from your computer then copy that Trailer Life link to your post in the forum.

[Northofu1]

file:///C:/Users/Kirk-Lola/Documents/TrailerLifeTowGuide2020.pdf

I think he meant,
TrailerLifeTowGuide2020.pdf
Hilight it and Google search 🙂

[sourdough]

I think he meant,
TrailerLifeTowGuide2020.pdf
Hilight it and Google search ��


Yeah, I knew how to get to it but thought he might have intended a link vs a personal computer file.

Here's the link:

https://webcontent.goodsam.com/trailerlife.com/digital_editions/TrailerLifeTowGuide2020.pdf

[Pete54401]

You can't go wrong with an F-150 with the 3.5 Ecoboost, Max Tow, 3.55 axle. Awesome torque, super smooth 10-speed and plenty of room to grow if you wish to get a bigger trailer down the road.

[JRTJH]

You can't go wrong with an F-150 with the 3.5 Ecoboost, Max Tow, 3.55 axle. Awesome torque, super smooth 10-speed and plenty of room to grow if you wish to get a bigger trailer down the road.

IF that F150 is properly equipped (adequate payload) then you're going to be OK (to a point). If that F150 is "a KR or Ultimate model off the dealer's lot" you're looking at a payload in the 1400-1600 pound range and will encounter SIGNIFICANT issues trying to stay under GVW with any trailer in the 10K range. That's a "bigger trailer" if you're upgrading from a 17' ultralite, but not a "bigger trailer" if you're already in the 7500-9000 pound GVW range with your current trailer.

Essentially, any trailer greater than "around 10K GVW" is going to overwhelm almost EVERY F150. There is a "HD F150 with HD payload and HD towing options, but they are "rarer than hen's teeth" at any dealership. I've never seen one for sale on a lot, they ALL are special order only. Finding a used one for sale is even harder to locate, so unless you're willing to special order a tow vehicle, that kind of "properly equipped truck" is virtually non-existent...

[Northofu1]

Who needs an f 150?

[sourdough]

Thanks for all the input! As I expected, most folks lean towards the “go big or go home” method. But, as I said, we don’t plan to upgrade in the future. We’re retired, in our sixties and live in Alaska where the camping season is short.

So, after doing the following comparison and taking your input into consideration, I’m back to leaning towards a Ram 1500.

Engine. Payload. GCWR. Max.TWR
1500. 5.7L Hemi. 1970 . 17000. 11470
2500. 5.7L Hemi. 2350. 18300. 11,180

The additional GVWR of 2000lbs in the 2500 along with the cost of the vehicle doesn’t seem worth it to me!

Thanks again!
Ed


Can you share where you got those numbers? I originally posted that they seemed out of whack but didn't pursue it. I thought I would look into it a bit this evening and although the 1500 looks "sort of" right, the best payload I could pull was about 1840 with a tradesman no frills truck. A new Ram 2500 doesn't even offer the 5.7 and their payloads are all in the 3k range.

[Pete54401]

Specs show the GVWR on your trailer at just under 6,000 lbs. Unless that is incorrect, or unless you are hauling a load of concrete blocks along with your trailer, you should be fine. Assuming that your tongue load is a maximum of 15% that is 900 lbs. With a payload rating of just a hair over 2,000 lbs on a Crew Cab 4x4 145" WB, that gives you 1,100 lbs to cover you and the Mrs along with whatever else is in the truck or bed. With a GCWR of 16,200, a conventional trailer rating of 10,700 lbs. (20" tires will be higher, Limited and Raptor numbers are less) you have plenty of room to spare in the top rated truck and powertrain combo offered in a half-ton (sorry to the GM, RAM, Toyota and Nissan folks).

[Tuz5150]

I have a brand new silverado 1500 with max tow package. payload is 2250#

I tow a 5th wheel 29RBS xlite. fully loaded its about 8300#, and in pin weight of #1463

Tows no problem, 13 mpg too on the 5.3 gas engine. 8,000 miles on the road in 19.

[Fourbtgait]

2016 F150. Payload just under 1800, tow capacity 9100. 5.0 V8, 1100 lb max hitch weight. 35 gallon fuel tank.
2018 Passport 22RB, gross weight 6500, typical weight 6000.
So 2/3 weight of stated tow capacity of truck. Pulls like dream with 800 lb tw.
Plus when not pulling trailer on highway I get 22 mpg, in town 16-17 mpg.
Have owned 3/4t dodge and ford diesels, pulled gooseneck, 5wh and bumper pull tt.
Buy what you need, this setup is all I need as this trailer is all we want now. No issues braking or pulling in Washington, Idaho and Montana.

[Tuz5150]

Thanks for all the input! As I expected, most folks lean towards the “go big or go home” method. But, as I said, we don’t plan to upgrade in the future. We’re retired, in our sixties and live in Alaska where the camping season is short.

So, after doing the following comparison and taking your input into consideration, I’m back to leaning towards a Ram 1500.

Engine. Payload. GCWR. Max.TWR
1500. 5.7L Hemi. 1970 . 17000. 11470
2500. 5.7L Hemi. 2350. 18300. 11,180

The additional GVWR of 2000lbs in the 2500 along with the cost of the vehicle doesn’t seem worth it to me!

Thanks again!
Ed

The RAMS now have COIL Springs on their 1500 trucks..........
PASS !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Coda]

I have a 2018 Keystone Cougar 22RBS and tow it with a 2015 F150 w/3.5 L V-6. I have towed it from Toronto to Los Angeles, Portland, OR and down east to the Canadian Maritimes with zero issues.
Im researching TV for that 22RBS. Do you continue to stand by this post?

[Camping family]

Hi all,


I'm in comparison shopping mode for purchasing a new tow vehicle (truck) for our 2016 Keystone Passport (195RBWE).


We've been using our 2003 Ford F-150 Supercrew (4x4) since we purchased the trailer and it has performed "ok", except for steep and/or lengthy hills. Second trip we had a blown sparkplug and ever since have worried about another one.


We don't plan to upgrade this camper to anything bigger in the future, but do want something that will tow without any worries. I had been looking at the 250/2500s series from Ford/Chevy(GMC)/RAM, but have recently discussed the 150/1500s with my very knowledgeable son-in-law who tows his race truck with a RAM 3500 DW Diesel.



Apparently the new 150/1500s towing capabilities are far better than they were in 2003. Does anyone have a compelling reason why I should not consider a 150/1500 model? I definitely don't want a Diesel due to their higher maintenance costs. And, it appears the 250/2500s towing capacity is not much higher than the 150/1500s.


Thanks in advance for your input.
Ed
The price difference is nothing between a 150 or 250 gasser. Go with the 250 or 2500 you will not be sorry. If the 150 has been doing you okay then the 250 or 2500 will do you even better and will not have the problem going up hill. Besides up hill isn’t the problem. Down hill is