Holmans RV, Passport 239ml buy

[rudyunknown]

Hi All

This is my first post on this site, I have had a Rpod 171 for the last 8 years and now with 2 kids 8 and 5, the Rpod was getting smaller every year. I did not want anything that was huge but had the room for my nieces to join us for camping. Plus I ride offroad motorcycle, so from time to time we can boondock on it too.

Tow vehicle is 2008 Toyota Tundra with towing at arnd 10,000+ and the truck has a bigger cooler for the transmission. I will also add a weight distribution hitch just to be on the safe side.

Here are my questions though, I live in the suburbs of Philly and all the local dealers near me cant even get close to what Holman's is offering for the price. There are two models for the 239ml one is the 2020 early and 2020 mid year model, that has the walk on roof and the rear door near the bunk. Unfortunately Holmans doesn't have the later one in stock, but the price is so good on the early 2020 model that I am ready to travel.

I went thru a lot of the threads on the forum about warranty work needed in the first year and so on. I had bought the rpod second hand and he had it delivered to him too, nothing major went wrong with the camper other than regular water fittings getting loose and maybe tuning needed for the AC. That said, how much of a risk is it to worry abt the warranty if I getting the camper at almost $4-5K less than what the local dealers are selling me.

Is there anything that can cost me as much in warranty in case things go south. Also I read some reviews of Holmans RV on this forum, most of them seem to be on the +ve side. I had a chat with Ryan in sales, he even gave me an extra $300 off for travelling. They have 3 units available in stock.

I am all ears for good and bad reviews of Holman's and also if its a good idea to travel 8 hours to get a trailer. Also want to know how the overall build quality of these campers are?

Thanks
Rudy

[Gobirds38]

I recently have purchased a Keystone from Holman and couldn't be happier with them. They were very friendly and helpful. The walk thru was very in depth on everything on the TT. So far no issues...

I would recommend them to anyone. They gave me a great price also.

[Buckeyexx]

Holman is where I purchased my 2017 239ml from.

They were awesome to deal with from the sales side of things. Prices are hard to beat because they sell at wholesale cost. I would definitely recommend them to anyone and would go back again.

The service department isn’t the friendliest but luckily haven’t had to use them but one time and it was for the outdoor kitchen faucet quick connect. But as long as they fixed my problem I can deal with that.

I bought the extended 5 year warranty with mine and so far it’s been a pretty solid camper. Knock on wood.

I’m jealous of that back door and the flip up bottom bunk area. That’s pretty awesome idea if you ask me. It would be nice to have that for more storage since I rarely use both bunks. They have made some nice upgrades since I bought mine but I still really like it.

Good luck with you search and I don’t think you will be disappointed with Holman if you choose to use them.

[rudyunknown]

Unfortunately the hatch in the back is a late 2020 model and they dont have that one on site yet. I am guessing they are blowing out the older 2020 models.

However i think the walk on roof is much better add on to the 239ml than the hatch. I would take a hatch any day of the week but that walk on roof is what we all need on our campers. That said, i have been on top of my Rpod working on the AC unit and just have to be careful and spread the weight.

So far i am happy that there have been +ve reviews on both the camper and the dealership. I still need to find out that n case of warranty whom can i reach out to in Philly. Are there independent service centers that are not aligned to dealerships?

[Gobirds38]

Here is a link that might help.

https://www.keystonerv.com/find-a-dealer/

[rudyunknown]

I went on that website to find out who the closest dealers were. I went to one near me in NJ, and when they couldnt sell me the 239ml, they went ahead and said we cant service it here if u bring it over. Our techs are super busy. And he did mention that they were paid $11 an hour way more than techs in Ohio, as if to let me know that they are better.

its warrenty work, Keystone is paying them the money for it, not sure why they are so sour about it. Maybe the warranty work pays for way less than actual service work?

[JRTJH]

I went on that website to find out who the closest dealers were. I went to one near me in NJ, and when they couldnt sell me the 239ml, they went ahead and said we cant service it here if u bring it over. Our techs are super busy. And he did mention that they were paid $11 an hour way more than techs in Ohio, as if to let me know that they are better.

its warrenty work, Keystone is paying them the money for it, not sure why they are so sour about it. Maybe the warranty work pays for way less than actual service work?

Typically, Keystone pays less for warranty repairs than it costs the dealer to do the work. In other words, warranty work costs the dealer since he doesn't make any money on doing it. When selling a trailer, that can be factored into the selling price (yes, you pay for the warranty repairs up front). If you buy from a "distant dealer", they can sell the trailer for less because they know you won't be towing it back for repairs under warranty.

Often, local dealers can't/won't compete with the pricing at volume, out of area dealers. So, they simply "put their paying customers first" when it comes to who gets scheduled for warranty repairs.

Don't confuse the warranty terms on an automobile with the terms on an RV. They aren't handled the same, they aren't scheduled the same and they aren't reimbursed by the manufacturer the same.... They are two different concepts that "sound alike but are significantly different".....

[ctbruce]

I went on that website to find out who the closest dealers were. I went to one near me in NJ, and when they couldnt sell me the 239ml, they went ahead and said we cant service it here if u bring it over. Our techs are super busy. And he did mention that they were paid $11 an hour way more than techs in Ohio, as if to let me know that they are better.



its warrenty work, Keystone is paying them the money for it, not sure why they are so sour about it. Maybe the warranty work pays for way less than actual service work?Lots of posts on the Forum discussing this issue. They are there to help educate folks to what is going and to guide them. We all wish it wasn't this way, but it is. Find a local independent tech who will do warranty work.

[Frank G]

Rudy, how good are you at making your own repairs? If you can handle the repair work yourself then buying on price should work out for you. If it is major, then haul it back to Holman RV. Most repairs are minor and can be fixed in the driveway. Holman RV is a straight shooter no funny business, typical with all closers they will offer coatings and extended warrantees, your choice, be ready. Do a good PDI look at everything and run, open / close everything. We bought sight unseen and had options added. Very satisfied with the unit and dealer.

If you don't buy the closers add on's and with the Holman discount you should be about 6 to 7k ahead. This will cover a lot of repairs that more than likely will never happen. If you finance that money it is crazier yet.

Good Luck

[bsmith0404]

There is more to consider than just warranty repairs. How long will you keep the RV? If you have if after the warranty runs out and need repairs, how much will you pay. Many shops have internal customer prices and external prices. Sometimes the difference can be very significant $50 per hour or more. And yes, when you’re not an I tee all customer, you do go to the back of the line as dealers will give priority to their customers. Of course, with RVs, everyone uses them during the same part of the year and everyone needs repairs at the same time. If you feel comfortable doing your own repairs or have a good mobile or local repair shop you trust, then this may not be much of an issue.

Also, when it comes to warranty repairs, the process is typically 1) take it to the shop, 2) they diagnose the problem and submit a warranty repair request, 3) get warranty repair approval, 4) order parts and wait, 5) compete repair. Many times this can take 1-2 weeks or more to complete. That means two round trips, one to drop off and one to pick up. With all of that in mind, you need to decide how much of a savings is worth traveling out of town vs staying local. Additionally, make sure you are apples to apples on the build options.

[rudyunknown]

I am handy at making fixes to the RV, youtube has a video of everything, and if patiently done, most of the time when i fix, i over engineer the fix.

I am saving on average arnd 6K for the camper when brought locally, I also found out a good RV store that is not a dealer for RV, they do offer warranty work for a bunch of other brands but not Keystone.

For all fair comparison, i am getting a new 2020 unit instead of me almost buying a 2018 model for the same price. Just that, after doing more review (paralysis by analysis) on this forum, I am looking at this warranty deal a bit more. Seems like if i get a lemon i would need the warranty, if not then its a peace of mind thing.

I have also trying to find a list of proactive stuff that i might do to the RV once i have it. But for now i just wanted to make sure, i get a good walk thru when picking up the camper. Me driving in cold maybe wet conditions 500 miles to pick up the camper, and the only reason is the 2 hour walk thru and me twisting everything in the camper.

What i would really love to know is if there is someone close to the Holmans RV, and would take a walk thru on my behalf, not a detailed but one to make sure everything is good to go before i embark on an 8 hour trip.

Thanks
Rudy

[roadglide]

I have Coach net one more year left. My experience coach net is worthless if you own trailer. Coach net is telling the warranty only covers mechanical parts Motors gears. Coach net requires take your RV to the selling franchise up to a hundred miles . If your dealer is a dive that can make things worse . These RVs are really not extremely hard to work on speaking about non in command system. I am lucky that I have something simple and can repair maintenance issues. My advice would be to save your money fix any issues you have with the RV yourself.

[chuckster57]

Pretty much all extended warranty companies only cover “component failure”, meaning the A/C unit or the furnace or Refer. I have yet to see an extended warranty cover anything considered “cosmetic” or something spelled out in the owner’s manual as “routine maintenance”, including roof leaks because the dicor seperated. I find lots of customers are either mis led or have a mis conception of extended warranties. I had easy care and at 4 3/4 years it cost me only my $100 deductible to replace my roof AC.

[wiredgeorge]

I own a 2002 Cougar. I do all the work on it myself. I don't care about warranties which are there to make buyer feel better and seem to never amount to much use. When I hear a person come onto the forum and complain about a dripping pex fitting or loose trim and then complain more when a dealer's shop has his camper for months I wonder why bother taking it to a dealer. Now if I had to have a slide adjusted or that level of repair, perhaps I would drag my camper over to Wagner's RV in Castroville and let them take it on. They charge about 1/3 per hour of a dealer and have an outstanding tech. Saving $6000 will sure buy you a lot of time in an independent shop and if a BIG item goes, slide, refrigerator, etc. you do get a warranty from Keystone that would justify dragging the camper back through the ice and snow to the seller's shop.

Look in the yellow pages for a local certified RV tech who is willing to be paid to do a comprehensive PDI before you sign for or fetch the trailer.

[JRTJH]

Additionally, ALL of the components installed in your trailer will be covered by the manufacturer's warranty (not Keystone's warranty). The refrigerator, furnace, air conditioner, water pump, stereo, TV, axles, slide motor mechanism, tires, brakes, leveling system, propane regulator, vent fans, furniture, vinyl flooring, carpet, etc.... They ALL are covered by their manufacturer, (again, NOT Keystone)....

If anything happens, most manufacturers have a list of "independent and approved repair centers" that you can contact to repair that item "under manufacturer's warranty".

ALL of this is "outside the Keystone warranty" and if you read the Keystone Owner's Manual, it specifically states that Keystone DOES NOT warrant those items, but during the "Keystone warranty" they act as the intermediary (process the warranty on that item) for you.... After the Keystone warranty (1 year) then it's up to you or the repair facility (dealer or independent repair center) to process any remaining "item warranty"....

In reality, unless there's a "chassis/frame/cosmetic" warranty issue, Keystone isn't going to do anything but "push paper" to get reimbursed after paying the dealer to repair the item. You can essentially "do the same paper pushing" by using an independent repair center and processing your own paperwork.....

[rudyunknown]

Got it thanks for the detailed info. Makes me feel better. I personally feel that working on minor items is not big deal, takes a lot of cussing and then bucket loads of patience.

Thanks for the suggestion of having a local RV tech go thru the PDI, either with me or before i have the delivery.

So there is another thing now, if the 3rd Party RV tech can do the PDI for me, maybe then i can avoid the whole trip, or do you guys suggest me to still go ahead and make the trip. Which i do not mind, but making a trip with 2 kids and the wife is not going to be super easy but doable.

[bsmith0404]

I can answer that question with one word, GO!

[JRTJH]

I'll add "several more words":

NEVER sign a contract without knowing what you're getting.... Why in the world would anyone "trust an unknown person" to make decisions affecting a significant purchase???? Just because you're paying him to "do the job for you" ??? Remember, you're also "paying the dealership" to do the PDI for you and to deliver a quality product, just as you're paying Keystone to build a trouble free trailer.....

In a nutshell, you're suggesting that you "involve another paid person" to do what the "other paid people might not do on your behalf".... Seems redundant to "hope this one will get it right".....

YOU (nobody else) has your best interest at heart and should be making significantly expensive decisions for you...…

GO, protect your own butt !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[rudyunknown]

Thanks i guess i needed that hard push. But i might still consider a local tech if possible to see whats needs to be done, or i will ask my best friend Youtube to show me what to look out for in a new TT.

I cant say how helpful these discussions have been.

[flybouy]

As someone who owned various boats and contracted a marine survey before purchase I'll emphatically say that you should be there. An "independent RV Tech" doesn't have the credentials on the line like a marine surveyor does. Ask most anyone that's purchased a "home inspection" if anything was missed during the inspection. Many don't get on the roof or "test" any appliances such as HVAC units or water heaters past flipping a switch and listen for it to run.

You should be there to ensure that a thorough inspection is conducted and to LEARN how to operate the unit and ASK questions. Your making a major investment not ordering a pizza for delivery.

JMHO

[Ken / Claudia]

My guess is that with a proper PDI you will find problems, most do. Than what? take it home fix it yourself or take back to dealer. This is how I would handle it.
I have 40 years of RV use and ownership. Plan on spending 3 hours or more hours to get a good PDI done. Before you leave decide how that stuff gets fixed.
Use the unit near the dealer for a night or two, you will find more stuff that is in need or repair or you will have questions about what needs looked at. Decide what to do take home or take back to dealer for repair.
During the PDI your opening every cabinet, door, turning everything on/off, sit on every seat, stand in the shower. Lay on the bed. Locate all the drain valves. The list is long. Until you get your family all inside the unit you're only guessing it will work for you. Doing all that might prevent buyers remorse and repair issues and we hear about that on here a lot. "If I knew about xxx I would not have purchased it"

[NH_Bulldog]

We bought our unit 750 miles away. Any small stuff I have handled myself. Dealer gave me the info for a local dealer/service shop that doesn’t sell our brand but does do Keystone warranty work. If/when something big comes up, they will handle for me. So don’t let distance be an issue in your purchase decision.

[captcolour]

If you haven't done so, you should check out the 239ml locally with the whole family to make sure it is the right floor plan. If you buy from Holman, you wouldn't have to bring the whole family since they have seen one already and will allow you to focus more on the walk-through.


I can run out to Holman if you want. Earliest would be next weekend. I could at least make sure the unit doesn't have obvious issues that they should fix before you get there. Or since they have multiple units, tell you which one seems better than the other and they can hold that one for you.

[rudyunknown]

Yes we did visit the local dealer and we checked the camper with the whole family. Wife and the kids know the layout of the camper and we liked it for the economy of space.

I don’t think I have the time to camp out one of the nights locally, because we were thinking of leaving Friday night and making it halfway to Ohio and getting there early Saturday morning. Get the PDI done over afternoon and then try and head back either Saturday or Sunday depending on what issues show up. We might even stay back one more day if needed.

Thanks Captacolor I might take u up on the offer. Will message you

Thanks again

[Frank G]

I keep reading of "Camping Out" Remember you will be in the Cincinnati OH area and it is winter In Ohio. I know of no open campgrounds. If you de-winterize you will have to winterize before heading back to PA.. I know the next 10 days have a favorable forecast, but at any time the area can go below freezing for weeks. It is unadvisable to start A/C units below 50 deg.F and absorption refrigerators will not work below 32 deg.F. You will have a good opportunity to check out the heating system.

Ask if the PDI can be done in a service bay. Ours was done outside with a electrical hook-up, no water or drains in March.

I am not trying to be negative but the reality of winter is real, that is why we now reside in Florida.

Good Luck

[rudyunknown]

That actually a good point. I will ask them that too, inside PDI if possible. And only thing I would like to check is the plumbing as some people suggested. It’s not too hard to ask them to show me where the RV fluid needs to go after the water test if they do it for me.

[wiredgeorge]

That actually a good point. I will ask them that too, inside PDI if possible. And only thing I would like to check is the plumbing as some people suggested. It’s not too hard to ask them to show me where the RV fluid needs to go after the water test if they do it for me.

There is a PDI worksheet that is usually offered (somewhere from this site) that you might want to take a look at if you are going to examine the trailer yourself. Then you can ask questions on how to find or check out any of the items. I would do the PDI then have your dealer winterize the trailer if it is going to sit somewhere in sub freezing temps for awhile before use. No point checking all the plumbing only to have it freeze a bit later.

[chuckster57]

My only advise on the PDI is, if you plan on using the checklist it will take you some time. Advise the dealer beforehand so they can make arrangements to stage your unit where it won’t be in the way. Walks generally are 1.5 hrs but a full PDI by a customer can take 3-4.

[rudyunknown]

Can someone please point me to the location of the PDI specific to Passport if possible. When i search for PDI on search, it dosnt give me any link as it is too short a character length.

Found this on the site,
http://www.angelfire.com/trek/buenav...PDI_V113_2.pdf

Is this it?

[JRTJH]

There is no "brand specific" PDI checklist on this forum and I don't suspect you'll find one anywhere for a Keystone product.

Here is the link to the "generic" PDI that has been used by members for at least the last 8 or 9 years: http://www.keystoneforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=5129

[Ken / Claudia]

Rudy,
I am also one who thinks it's important to do your research and look at saving money before making a big purchase. Sounds like this may be a win- win for you. Hope post #23 member can help you to maybe point to which of the three trailers might be the better. You heard it from several on here do not rush or skip a good PDI. Going on 15 years for me being on RV forums and there is still many who post with bad feelings over not doing that PDI. Of course some don't know a screw driver from a wrench and that makes matters worse with the little things.
Work out with the dealer how you want any problems dealt with. On RVs I have in the past accepted a lower price or had a contact written up with the needed repairs listed to be fixed on their dime.
Keep the thread going on your purchase and post about further camping adventures.
BTY, You tube has saved me a lot of time and money working on boats, rvs, our vehicles and even the home.

[wiredgeorge]

All trailers are basically the same until you get into very high end trailers with gee gaws most of us won't have to endure or work on. PEX check, let them explain how to work the propane regulator if you have two tanks, water pump check, all switches accounted for. check trim, etc etc.... PDI for ANY RV will be essentially the same. Look around this site and see what folks ask most after they buy their first camper... same stuff mostly and let them show you how to hook up OTA, cable and sat TV etc. Never campers have gotten pretty sophisticated.

[Greggde]

Try to purchase from the closest dealer that you are comfortable with. We custom ordered our 2019/2020 373 Keystone Fusion Toyhauler from an old established dealer in Portland , Oregon and have regretted it. We just couldn't bring ourselves to deal with the two So Cal dealers after the 7 visits over a period of one year and numerous attempts to bait and switch. Now we are faced with minor warranty issues that the So Cal Boys do not want to deal with. Thank goodness we bought a keystone as they are working with our problems
Greggde

Note:
Be sure to check the certificate of origin (normally) at front of Trailer this will show you the date of manufacture! I personally would be suspect of any Trailer that had endured to much
inclement weather as Roof's are one of the weakest links.
Greggde

[JAS]

I would check the pricing of warranty with Good Sam before buying. When I bought my last new trailer, it was a third the price of any of the warranties offered by my Dealer.

[rudyunknown]

Thanks for reminding me although more than the warranty i need the insurance for the 5 year period when the TT will be on a monthly payment with a bank, i went to their website and got a quote, and i was surprised to even get a call from them.

[Frank G]

Thanks for reminding me although more than the warranty i need the insurance for the 5 year period when the TT will be on a monthly payment with a bank, i went to their website and got a quote, and i was surprised to even get a call from them.

The bank or CU will only require a standard insurance policy similar to your auto insurance. Check with your insurance agent. A lot of folks here use Progressive, Geico, Allstate, etc. You do not need an extended warrantee that covers the maintenance items.

Gap insurance, If you are underwater with your first payment you may need to consider gap insurance. The closer at the RV dealer will be more than happy to sell you a policy.$$$. Here is how I calculate "underwater", at closing you must out of pocket at least 10% of the base cost plus any addon's including taxes, accessories and dealer fees.

[Mainer]

We have a 204RBS towing with a factory tow Tundra. Pulls great, but that forward stowage and FW tank forward put tongue weight well over 1000 when we first loaded it. Cargo/passenger Cap is 1425, too close for comfort.

We are careful loading it, especially if we want to carry water.

[rudyunknown]

HUGE thanks to CAPTCOLOR/Bruce to go out of his way and check the camper for us. Bit of a background about Bruce too, he was in Puerto Rico this whole week and then came back late on friday and went to check the camper for me on saturday.
I cant say how thanksful i am for him to go and check the camper for me. I got to see 50 more pictures of the Trailer and he found a few cosmetic issues which i will forward to the dealership, i hope they address everything before we get there.

I was 70% into the buy and had set up the bank to get the paperwork ready, but now after Bruce's feedback i am excited to get there next weekend to get the camper.

Love the feedback and love the people here, old school forums is still the best place.

Thanks
Rudy

[captcolour]

No good deed goes unpunished. While at Holman's we decided to look at a few Alpine's. Wow, we really liked the 3711KP. Uh-oh.:nonono:

[rudyunknown]

Thanks everyone in the group. Made the 600 (1200 round way) mile trip to Ohio to get the 239ML back home. Impressed with the Holman Dealership, no delay in the walk thru. It was pouring cats and dogs so the outside inspection was quick is. The walk thru guy didn’t let me get on his ladder to check the roof because of insurance issues but gladly took pictures for me all around to show me everything up there looked good.
Inside we went thru everything, laid down on all the beds, turned the Dining table to bed and even checked that too. Next went thru all the windows opened and closed everything the door lock was off which he fixed in 3 mins. I didn’t get to test the plumbing line because they had winterized but I made sure he showed me each and every water connection. Asked him to open the screwed panel for the pump and how to get the quick disconnect for winterizing the camper.
Then when all the PDI checklist was done, I told the guy that I am not coming back for any warranty work unless the roof blew off. Asked him to tell
Me what can go wrong on the trailer. Water he said is always an issue, so he said make sure the front and the back seals are good, lay down Dicor every year, when I said eternabond, he said he never did one. But thinks that dicor is still better as eternabond when u try and take it out all rip the rubber roof.
Also told me to check the water connections below the sink, said it take less than 5 mins to check under the kitchen sink and the bathroom sink. He showed me where there are connections and where there are straight pipe fittings. Told me usually the connection get loose when we travel, so just hand tighten them or feel them.
Showed me the access points for the bathroom shower and how to disassemble them by which panel.
Overall big advice check the P tubes below sinks every time and then check the shower connection once in a season.

Only downside was all the salt and snow that got sprayed over this weekend. Planning to give. A wash this thrusday.
Thanks everyone again, and special mention to Bruce

[captcolour]

Congrats! Did you end up getting the one I looked at for you?

[rudyunknown]

Hi Bruce, yeah i got the same exact one, they had fixed the issues for the trims everywhere. But for the yellowing, they said its on the casing and might be from the factory, I was fine as long there was no leaks.

[Bill-2020]

Our new 2020-1/2 239ML had a major drain leak from the kitchen sink toward the grey tank. There is a ABS pipe connection to the left of the furnace, against the wall (over the wheel well). The pipe was not cut straight and when it was glued in it didn't seal at that bad cut. I had to cut away the bad area and used an under-sink flexible coupling from Lowes with hose clamps to make the connection. Water everywhere, but I dried up what I could an then put a fan with heat on the carpeted wheel well and surrounding area for a day or two. So turn on that kitchen sink, pull the vent in front of the furnace, and use a flashlight to watch for any drips, or gushes as in our case.

[levic900rr]

Congrats man, we are picking ours up in April. Some great info in this thread for me!