Traded my passport in have a grand design imagine 3000qb

[duh1]

I no longer have a Keystone do I have to leave the forum (a bit tongue in cheeak). Thorughly appreciated all the great info shared here. The grand design forum seems pretty modest by comparison. Our passpor was just showing it
s age and felt time to get a new one. Had planned on a bullet and we're set to go but steped into a :-) GD IMAGINE 3000QB AND FELL IN LOVE. passport had 9 years and about 80,000 miles and served us well. Cracked frame on way to buy the new one sealed the decision.

[chuckster57]

You are welcome to stick around. GD does make some nice stuff, I worked on them for 5 years.

[Fishsizzle]

We looked hard at GD. They make nice stuff, but were a little to proud of what they offer for us. Congrats and enjoy!

[66joej]

We looked hard at GD. They make nice stuff, but were a little to proud of what they offer for us. Congrats and enjoy!

We were also going to go with Grand Design but thought we wouldn't have anything to complain about so stayed with Cougar.:lol::lol::lol:

[Snoking]

In August of 2018 we bought our Laredo commuter 225MK and left for Arizona in late Sept. We started watching for other TT on the road. Saw one Laredo in 1700 miles. The overall winner in number of units we saw was imagine this GD Imagine's. Going home in the spring and back this fall show the same results, GD Imagine's clear winter on the number of units on the road.

In certain area's other had there numbers increase. Lance in Idaho! Airstream in some areas.

[bsmith0404]

GD makes some beautiful RVs. They were actually started by 3 guys who were once with Keystone and production processes are very similar. I’ve been to both plants and the similarities are amazing. Imagine is probably the best selling travel trailer made right now so not surprising people are seeing many of them on the road right now. I believe Reflection surpassed Montana as the number one selling 5th wheel this year, but Montana still tops the luxury segment with Solitude and Alpine at #2 and #3. The dealership I work at sells GD and Keystone. It’s nice having both on the lot. Congrats on the 3000QB, it’s a beautiful RV

[RET.LEO]

I had seriously considered GD also but checking their claim of a R40 roof insulation made me laugh. It would take a foot of attic room to be deep enough for R40. I have always been if you exaggerate or lie about one thing what else are you stretching the truth or bold face lying about.
We haven't bought our new trailer yet but Keystone being realistic in R value claims helps to put it in the lead. GD is low on the list right now. Keystone is in the lead followed by Winnebago especially now that they have Azdel in their TT's, Jayco HT Eagle and then GD (kinda, sorta)

[bsmith0404]

I had seriously considered GD also but checking their claim of a R40 roof insulation made me laugh. It would take a foot of attic room to be deep enough for R40. I have always been if you exaggerate or lie about one thing what else are you stretching the truth or bold face lying about.
We haven't bought our new trailer yet but Keystone being realistic in R value claims helps to put it in the lead. GD is low on the list right now. Keystone is in the lead followed by Winnebago especially now that they have Azdel in their TT's, Jayco HT Eagle and then GD (kinda, sorta)

All R values in RVs are a total of the value offered by accumulation of each layer of materials in a roof/wall/floor. What the true R value is on each RV is debatable. I will tell you we have GD and Keystone both on the lot. When it’s 100 degrees with full sun beating down on them turning each unit into a sweat box, you can tell the difference from brand to brand as you step into them. Go from a passport to an Outback to a Laredo and each one is a bit cooler as you step up in claimed R values. GD with their claimed R40 (accurate or not) are always cooler. You can believe R40 claim or not, but whatever the correct/actual value is, it does work. Not saying you should drop everything and run out to by a GD, but I definitely would not cross them off my list or lower them below other brands because you don’t believe in their calculation of the R values.

[travelin texans]

I had seriously considered GD also but checking their claim of a R40 roof insulation made me laugh. It would take a foot of attic room to be deep enough for R40. I have always been if you exaggerate or lie about one thing what else are you stretching the truth or bold face lying about.
We haven't bought our new trailer yet but Keystone being realistic in R value claims helps to put it in the lead. GD is low on the list right now. Keystone is in the lead followed by Winnebago especially now that they have Azdel in their TT's, Jayco HT Eagle and then GD (kinda, sorta)

Just FYI, Grand Design is now owned by Winnebago.

[RET.LEO]

Just FYI, Grand Design is now owned by Winnebago.
Has been for some time now.

[JRTJH]

I had seriously considered GD also but checking their claim of a R40 roof insulation made me laugh. It would take a foot of attic room to be deep enough for R40. I have always been if you exaggerate or lie about one thing what else are you stretching the truth or bold face lying about.
We haven't bought our new trailer yet but Keystone being realistic in R value claims helps to put it in the lead. GD is low on the list right now. Keystone is in the lead followed by Winnebago especially now that they have Azdel in their TT's, Jayco HT Eagle and then GD (kinda, sorta)

I didn't "read the GD brochure" as saying the trailers have R-40 insulation in the roof. That "*" behind the comment has a footnote that says, "Equivalent R value".

Essentially, the 3" of fiberglass coupled with the 3/8" OSB, the 1/4" foil backed bubble wrap and the remaining "dead air space" all work together to provide "an insulated space" that's the equivalent of R-40 insulation".

When you consider that the space shuttle walls were 7" thick and provided an "equivalent r value of R-100 (or more), it's not simply "fiberglass blown into the space" at work.... Technology, not spun fiberglass makes up the "boastful difference"...

Just as a 60 watt light "bare bulb" provides a specific amount of light on the table top, if you add a reflector above the bulb, you increase the illumination in the work space. That 60 watt bulb isn't "brighter" rather technology (the reflector) increased the "equivalent light" without a larger bulb.

If you read previous Keystone brochures, you'll find that they also included "boastful R-value computations" that relied on "equivalent R value" to achieve the high numbers.

Technology, ain't it great ?????

[flybouy]

So John, you mean those light houses that were built hundreds of years ago din't use a multi-million watt light bulb?:whistling:

[JRTJH]

So John, you mean those light houses that were built hundreds of years ago din't use a multi-million watt light bulb?:whistling:

Seems I remember a candle, later replaced by a whale oil lamp and a Fresnel lens (to give an equivalent bright light)…. :whistling:

[ctbruce]

Seems I remember a candle, later replaced by a whale oil lamp and a Fresnel lens (to give an equivalent bright light)…. :whistling:Personal experience??? Or book knowledge? Sorry, couldn't resist. LOL.

[JRTJH]

Personal experience??? Or book knowledge? Sorry, couldn't resist. LOL.

Both.... No, I wasn't around to "witness the originals" but after touring the Lake Superior lighthouses a couple years ago, I saw the "antiques at work"...

I will say, at my "tender young age" there are mornings that I feel like a Whale oil lamp at work, sometimes in an LED environment"..... <sigh>

[ctbruce]

Both.... No, I wasn't around to "witness the originals" but after touring the Lake Superior lighthouses a couple years ago, I saw the "antiques at work"...

I will say, at my "tender young age" there are mornings that I feel like a Whale oil lamp at work, sometimes in an LED environment"..... <sigh>LOL. Loved the Shipwreck Museum and the other lighthouses we went thru when up there .

[sourdough]

Both.... No, I wasn't around to "witness the originals" but after touring the Lake Superior lighthouses a couple years ago, I saw the "antiques at work"...

I will say, at my "tender young age" there are mornings that I feel like a Whale oil lamp at work, sometimes in an LED environment"..... <sigh>



I would have to say at my "tender young age" there are mornings I feel like "something" but it's not a Whale oil lamp...….:lol::lol:

[RET.LEO]

I didn't "read the GD brochure" as saying the trailers have R-40 insulation in the roof. That "*" behind the comment has a footnote that says, "Equivalent R value".

Essentially, the 3" of fiberglass coupled with the 3/8" OSB, the 1/4" foil backed bubble wrap and the remaining "dead air space" all work together to provide "an insulated space" that's the equivalent of R-40 insulation".

When you consider that the space shuttle walls were 7" thick and provided an "equivalent r value of R-100 (or more), it's not simply "fiberglass blown into the space" at work.... Technology, not spun fiberglass makes up the "boastful difference"...

Just as a 60 watt light "bare bulb" provides a specific amount of light on the table top, if you add a reflector above the bulb, you increase the illumination in the work space. That 60 watt bulb isn't "brighter" rather technology (the reflector) increased the "equivalent light" without a larger bulb.

If you read previous Keystone brochures, you'll find that they also included "boastful R-value computations" that relied on "equivalent R value" to achieve the high numbers.

Technology, ain't it great ?????
Watch this vid for Grand Design roof and construction
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mEUmZ4-z1Bg&t=8s

[JRTJH]

I haven't watched the entire video, but may, if I find time. But, my opinion, for what it's worth:

The trailer in that video is a GD Transcend. It's an entry level, wood frame, aluminum sided "minimally priced" trailer. Trying to compare it to an aluminum framed, fiberglass "vacuum formed wall" structure is like comparing a fabric skinned biplane to a modern aluminum private airplane. About the only similarity is that they both have propellers.... About the only similarity between the Transcend and, for example, a Montana High Country is that they both have 4 wheels on two axles. Otherwise, they're different trailers with different components and different construction....

Apples to oranges, definitely not a "side by side comparison of competitive models...…

[bsmith0404]

Transcend uses a new roof material which has a 15 year warranty bs the 12 year on TPO. This may be some growing pains they’re going through, but Transcend is the only GD line that uses it. We’ve sold many Transcends and have not seen any problems with the roof on them yet, so I would guess this isn’t a normal wide spread problem. Also, having been through both factories and the fact that the guys who started GD came from Keystone, the two are built very similar. I personally wouldn’t hesitate to buy either. I’ve also seen first hand what their customer service is like, they’re top notch. They have actually pushed Keystone to be better. They both have pushed each other to be better.

[RET.LEO]

If you watch his other videos you will see that poor roof workmanship is a industry standard. There is no defense for what was shown on the transcend. It's the same roof design used by GD's higher end........not a lesser quality build on the Transcend because it's entry level. The guy at the plant that put in the defective roof joist is probably putting roofs on Imagines and Solitudes
It's the same construction method used on all roofs, top skin excluded.
The RV Industry is plagued by horrible and rushed construction.

[RET.LEO]

[QUOTE=bsmith0404;372078]Transcend uses a new roof material which has a 15 year warranty bs the 12 year on TPO.

A warranty usually isn't worth the paper it's written on. It's not a guaranty.......huge difference. Many people confuse a warranty and a guaranty.
I'm lucky that my Daughter In Law worked for a State Supreme Court dealing a lot with consumer affairs.
If you have a roof membrane problem within the factory warranty period you might have a chance at a free repair. After that you will have to go to the maker of the membrane. THEN you will find most likely that they will only reimburse for the price of the replacement membrane, not the labor which is the major cost of most repairs, not the subsequent damages caused by a faulty membrane.
Then just to help cheer you up they will probably prorate how long the membrane had been in service and it's expected life span. You will still be out a possible large portion of the cost of the material and the price to install it.

[sourdough]

I have resisted joining this conversation because the OP just wanted to advise he had purchased a GD Imagine and was questioning being on the forum. I have looked at Keystone and GD extensively and in fact have brochures for the Solitude, Reflection, Montana and Cougar with me. During that research I have come to some personal conclusions about the different brands and what is right for me but I don't think this is the appropriate thread to be discussing those things. Maybe a GD vs Keystone thread?

The OP just bought a GD unit - congrats and hope you have lots of fun. Stay on the forum and chew the fat with us....as you know, we can get pretty lively!!:D