Install Inverter in 2020 Cougar - Solar Ready

[Twisties]

So, we might buy a 5'er tomorrow and one concern is that I use a CPAP, so I must have either 24V dc or pure sine 120V AC if I am to sleep...

Seems like the dealer wants $$$ to install an inverter. Seems like the unit is said to be pre-wired for this. Seems like I could buy an inverter for not too much and put it in myself.

Tomorrow we are looking at a Cougar 315 RLS (most likely will take this), a Cougar Half-ton 30 RLS and also a 29RKS. There is also a chance we might go with a 2019 315 RLS...

Is this just plug and play, or how do I find what I need to know about this? I'm reasonably competent at normal house wiring, but have never had my hands on an RV.

[chuckster57]

We don’t sell your model, but it would be rare for a unit to come “prewired” for an inverter. Installing one isn’t that hard, and you have a couple options. We can guide you through the installation since you’ve said your good residential work. RV is just a house on wheels.

Decide which one your going to purchase, verify if it’s prewired. DONT ask the salesperson make the service tech or mgr SHOW you.

[rjsurfer]

Those units do not come with an inverter installed, only a rudimentary solar charging line.

Usually they locate the inverter near the battery because of the requirement for a heavy guage (10 gauge +) DC connection line. Then the AC output wire is run into the camper, sometimes to a dedicated AC outlet or to the AC/DC wiring distribution box

If your CPAP AC requirements are low you might be able to use an existing 12 volt cigarette plug and connect a small inverter to it? I tried doing that with a small TV once and the inverter just couldn't get the DC power required to power up the inverter.

Ron W.

[MarkEHansen]

I got a 12v power adapter for my CPAP. I don't know what the voltage/power requirements are for my CPAP, but allowing for 12v operation is pretty common, so there should be an adapter available for your machine as well. It's going to be expensive ($100+) but less than putting in an Inverter system.

[chuckster57]

I’m installing an inverter in a new unit for a customer that uses a Cpap machine and only has gen power during the day.

IIRC the machine draws about 75W. Beside the right size inverter, you need to consider upgrading the battery.

[flybouy]

What Chuck said. A single 12V battery will not make it thru the night with that load plus running the other demands i.e the fridge and hot water controls, lights, CO detector, radio, water pump and other parasitic drains.

Check the wattage on the CPAP then look at an inverter that has running watts higher than that. When you find a "suitable" inverter then check the DC running watts, that's what the battery will have to support for the number of hours times the number of days used.

[jim1]

Hi .just to let you know our 2019 315RLS has a couple of USB charging ports in the closet up close to the headboard end of the bed. You might be able to use one of them for your Darth Vader mask. And by the way we love our 315 RLS even though we have had a few minor inconveniences.

[Twisties]

As I understand it, these units have three standard outlets pre-wired for service from an inverter, and the connection is said to be in the basement compartment.

The cpap itself doesn't take much. I have run them overnight with a 10.5 amp hour battery before. But, nowadays they have heated humidifiers and heated hoses.... you can turn off the heat if you need to, however.

I think the units come with two batteries, and at least one dealer nearby offers to convert that to 6V. I haven't talked to the dealer with the 315 about a 6V conversion.

It would seem that for two 12 V batteries you would just hook them in parallel and for two 6V batteries you would hook them in series, or am I missing something? Anyway, it seems two 12V batteries at 70 ah each would net you about 140 ah, and two 6V at 200 ah each would net you 200 ah?

[Twisties]

Hi .just to let you know our 2019 315RLS has a couple of USB charging ports in the closet up close to the headboard end of the bed. You might be able to use one of them for your Darth Vader mask. And by the way we love our 315 RLS even though we have had a few minor inconveniences.


Nah, can't use USB. I could use a regular 12V cigarette lighter outlet and a small inverter (which I already have and use for car camping), but I don't think the 2020's have a 12V. I'll look when I get there this afternoon.

[GeekSquadOfUn]

I have a 2019 315RLS and also use a CPAP (ResMED AirSense 24V)

First and foremost the so-called Solar Prep is BS. It's a small gauge wire that runs from the special connector in the utility bay to the battery with a 10A fuse. That's it.

In order to have a Solar, you need a solar panel, ideally a solar charge controller, the male connector for that special connector in the bay. Lots of additional wiring then.

Second, there is no inverter prep, nothing. You may have 1 battery or 2 - depending on what your dealer sells you, but typically there's a 12V marine/RV Group 24 battery. I have removed it and installed 2 Costco 6V golf cart batteries.

I installed a 1000W pure sine inverter right above my batteries and installed a connection for my CPAP, which happens to be right above it in the bedroom closet.

Only when Dry Camping, I turn OFF the heated water humidifier and do not use the heated hose, as these would pull too much and run my batteries down. I use the ResMED adapter as usual. Works fine.

I plan to run another electrical wire from the inverter to my living room eventually for my TV, that is on my todo list...

In the pic you can see my Solar charge controller, screwed to the side above the connector.

[Logan X]

Twisties,

You are correct with the batteries, 2 12v batteries are connected in parallel and 2 6v batteries are connected in series. 6v batteries are the popular choice, it is what I have and I’m very happy with it.

You may have a 12v outlet near the television area (that is usually where a 12v outlet would be if you have one) that you may be able to plug your small inverter (you said you had for car camping) into. This is also what I do although I’m not running a CPAP with it, I’m just running the TV. If you use that option, make sure the outlet can handle the load you are putting on it.

Real quick about the batteries, you shouldn’t discharge the batteries more than 50% or you will damage them. So for a 200ah set up, you only have 100 usable amp hours.

[MarkEHansen]

Each time I hear of someone running their CPAP while boondocking, I hear they use an Inverter and run the machine using it's 120v power cable.

Why do folks not get the 12V adapter cable for their CPAP (assuming one is available) and run without the Inverter? Wouldn't the direct 12V connection use less power than going through the Inverter?

[Twisties]

Each time I hear of someone running their CPAP while boondocking, I hear they use an Inverter and run the machine using it's 120v power cable.

Why do folks not get the 12V adapter cable for their CPAP (assuming one is available) and run without the Inverter? Wouldn't the direct 12V connection use less power than going through the Inverter?

I'll double check to see if such a thing is available. I've been on CPAP since 1998 and I can say that it keeps getting easier and more pre-packaged products are always coming out. Long gone are the days when you needed to be an electrical engineer to run these things away from shore power. That said, the older units ran on 12V and direct wire cables were available. I have not seen one for the newer 24V units. I have a fairly large Li-Ion battery with a proprietary 24V converter that I use for up to two nights, then it's car batteries and inverter.... and the unit's power supply to convert it back to dc and 24V.... super inefficient, I know.

[Twisties]

Hmmmm...... yep, there is a 12V to CPAP machine product for $89. Who knew! Looks like this issue is solved, unless I want to watch tv... LOL...

Edit: and an aftermarket one on Amazon for $34.

[MarkEHansen]

I plan on going with an Inverter for my TV, but other components, like the CPAP and the gadgets in the entertainment closet, I plan to buy/build 12V adapters for, just to try to keep the power usage as low as possible (and still use the gadgets :) ).

[GeekSquadOfUn]

Each time I hear of someone running their CPAP while boondocking, I hear they use an Inverter and run the machine using it's 120v power cable.

Why do folks not get the 12V adapter cable for their CPAP (assuming one is available) and run without the Inverter? Wouldn't the direct 12V connection use less power than going through the Inverter?
My unit air AirSense from ResMED needs 24V and I think it's by design, they want customers to buy their super expensive battery pack.

If you have an inverter, there's nothing wrong in using it to power the AC adapter provided. No need to buy or install anything else.

[GeekSquadOfUn]

Hmmmm...... yep, there is a 12V to CPAP machine product for $89. Who knew! Looks like this issue is solved, unless I want to watch tv... LOL...

Edit: and an aftermarket one on Amazon for $34.
Do you have links to those? I'm curious, never seen one for 24V... I thought your CPAP was a 24V too

[Twisties]

Do you have links to those? I'm curious, never seen one for 24V... I thought your CPAP was a 24V too

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07P6H994Q/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

https://www.cpap.com/productpage/resmed-dc-converter-airsense-aircurve-10-machines

[GeekSquadOfUn]

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07P6H994Q/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

https://www.cpap.com/productpage/resmed-dc-converter-airsense-aircurve-10-machines
Well that 12v cigarette adapter at $34 wins the prize for me.

Thanks.

[Nate805]

I add two 6v deep cycle batteries and an inverter to my 2018 Cougar 29BHS when I bought it new a year ago. Cost me about $1k to do
It myself. The batteries were the bulk of the cost as I wanted something very reliable. Nothing was “pre-wired”. Batteries and inverter only took two hours to install. I can now run low wattage electronics, cell phone chargers, etc. without shore power. Can run it overnight and then charge the batteries back up with a generator on the morning. Technically, I can run more as power goes to appliances, TV, etc.. but with only 2x 6 volt batteries, they burn out fast if I do all that. You’d really need 4 - 6 batteries plus solar to run large electronics for any significant duration.

How many watts is your CPAP?

[Twisties]

How many watts is your CPAP?

I'm not really sure, but the cigarette lighter to cpap transformer linked above is rated 90W, so I suppose that is an upper limit.

Well, the big news, we bought one today and take delivery Tuesday. It's a 2020 30RLS. It has the solar prep and the usb chargers prewired.... So we found in the literature that the usb chargers are 12V, so depending on their amp rating it may be possible to get a usb to cig lighter adapter.

So, as I understand it, we really just need to add the inverter in the pass-through compartment. They say the wiring is present to add it and then it powers three outlets in the unit. I think it's going to pretty close to plug and play once I identify the wiring.

We were not able to find any cigarette lighter outlets in it.

So, I think this solar prep in the 2020's may be different. It's z-amp and is wired to the roof. It needs panels and a charge controller. The z-amp panels are very expensive, so I will see if we can mate up some other panels once I get it in hand.

We did negotiate 2 6V batteries in the deal, so it will come with that. I should have specified amp hours, but the ones they had on the shelf were all Interstate 225 ah.

[Nate805]

Congrats on the new rig. I recommend an inverter for dry camping. It’s a few hundred for parts and labor is minor. Enjoy!

[chuckster57]

Congrats. I’d be very curious to see how they do the inverter thing and which 3 outlets are powered. Are the outlets also “live” on shore power?

[Logan X]

Technically, I can run more as power goes to appliances, TV, etc.. but with only 2x 6 volt batteries, they burn out fast if I do all that. You’d really need 4 - 6 batteries plus solar to run large electronics for any significant duration.


I have 2 6v batteries and I have had the opposite experience. I run the TV (for a long time, like 8-10 hours) Apple TV, lights, fridge, a little bit of furnace, charge devices, and it only brings the batteries down to about 85% state of charge after a day of use. I feel like my 6v batteries last a long time.

Do you use a battery monitor with a shunt? Maybe your batteries could do more than you think they can?

[Twisties]

Congrats. I’d be very curious to see how they do the inverter thing and which 3 outlets are powered. Are the outlets also “live” on shore power?

I was wondering about that. We will see. It's not a deal breaker as there is another set of outlets on the other side of the bed. I'll try to post a pictorial when I do the install.

[Nate805]

I have 2 6v batteries and I have had the opposite experience. I run the TV (for a long time, like 8-10 hours) Apple TV, lights, fridge, a little bit of furnace, charge devices, and it only brings the batteries down to about 85% state of charge after a day of use. I feel like my 6v batteries last a long time.

Do you use a battery monitor with a shunt? Maybe your batteries could do more than you think they can?



Here’s my setup. Inverter will stop pulling power when it drops down to low 11-11.5v or about 80-85%. I haven’t paid attention to how long it lasts. I’ve noticed it’s only a few hours if lots of things are running: TV, fridge, water heater, etc.. If I leave the fridge and water heater on gas, then the TV and outlets run much longer. Typically, can charge several items all night long, run lights, etc. no problem. Sounds like you’re getting a lot more out of your setup. What inverter and batteries do you have?

24525

24526

[Logan X]

Nate,

I run the fridge and water heater on propane so that is probably the big difference in the results we are seeing.

My batteries are US batteries, 232 amp hours, and my inverter is small. It’s only 300 watts and I only use it for the TV and the Apple TV. I turn it off when not in use.

Take care!

[Rick]

So we found in the literature that the usb chargers are 12V, so depending on their amp rating it may be possible to get a usb to cig lighter adapter.

USB is only 5V output and can handle up to a 5A draw.

[Twisties]

So we found in the literature that the usb chargers are 12V, so depending on their amp rating it may be possible to get a usb to cig lighter adapter.

USB is only 5V output and can handle up to a 5A draw.

I was under the impression that 5V is standard for USB. I don't think that will power a CPAP even if the voltage were stepped up.

[MarkEHansen]

Your CPAP power cable will indicate what the input voltage range is - and it's not likely to be 5v :( I will be installing a 12V outlet powered either from a 15amp circuit from my DC power panel, or directly from the battery (the battery cut-off switch, in my case).

[flybouy]

I was under the impression that 5V is standard for USB. I don't think that will power a CPAP even if the voltage were stepped up.

USB output is 5vdc. I'm guessing what the OP referenced was literature stating the USB input is 12vdc indicating that shore power is not required to power them. That USB port would be the same as found in some newer vehicles that offer "on board" cell phone chargers.

[Twisties]

USB output is 5vdc. I'm guessing what the OP referenced was literature stating the USB input is 12vdc indicating that shore power is not required to power them. That USB port would be the same as found in some newer vehicles that offer "on board" cell phone chargers.

Probably so. That would make sense, a lot of sense.

[Twisties]

Your CPAP power cable will indicate what the input voltage range is - and it's not likely to be 5v :( I will be installing a 12V outlet powered either from a 15amp circuit from my DC power panel, or directly from the battery (the battery cut-off switch, in my case).

Yes, my cpap takes 24V, I know. But I ordered one of those cig lighter to cpap transformers discussed earlier in the thread, so had the usb been 12V, as I thought I had read at the dealer's yesterday, then there would have been some possibility of making a go of it. However, I agree, usb is 5V and as Marshall points out, I probably read that they are supplied by the 12V system on the RV.

[GeekSquadOfUn]

The 2 x USB ports in the closet of our 315RLS are standard, at 5V. They will work without shore power, ie they work off the battery.

But their output is weak at 1A, not enough even to charge a newer phone or tablet. You need about 2A to charge those.

I installed new powerful USB ports, wired direct to battery and a 15A fuse. That works much better for charging.

Since my CPAP requires 24V, I'm using a small inverter with my CPAP AC adapter and turning off the heating element works for me.

[Twisties]

My little 300W pure sine would work, but I want to keep it for other uses (power outages, car camping,etc). We added up our watt demand, concluded A/C is prohibitive, and decided we might draw on the neighborhood of 160W max through the inverter. That's tv, laptops, and cpap...which don't all run at the same time.

Doesn't look like it would be hard to wire some new usb charge ports.

[sonofcy]

As I understand it, these units have three standard outlets pre-wired for service from an inverter, and the connection is said to be in the basement compartment.

The cpap itself doesn't take much. I have run them overnight with a 10.5 amp hour battery before. But, nowadays they have heated humidifiers and heated hoses.... you can turn off the heat if you need to, however.

I think the units come with two batteries, and at least one dealer nearby offers to convert that to 6V. I haven't talked to the dealer with the 315 about a 6V conversion.

It would seem that for two 12 V batteries you would just hook them in parallel and for two 6V batteries you would hook them in series, or am I missing something? Anyway, it seems two 12V batteries at 70 ah each would net you about 140 ah, and two 6V at 200 ah each would net you 200 ah?
Yes, 200 but of course being FLA (flooded lead acid) you should only use 50% so you actually have 100AH or 1,200 watt hours.In order to determine the 50% usage get a Trimetric TM-2030RV battery monitor or another shunt based meter that shows % at least. The built in monitor is useless just like the tank monitors.

[Kzneft]

Just get you a GoalZero Yetti power station. My friend that goes camping with us alot bought the Yetti 1000 and he can use his CPAP all night. You can then recharge it using your generator or solar panels. Plus side it it portable. We use one to power the tv's at night when we don't want to use the generator. Plus it has ports for USB, etc.

[mikec557]

I realize this thread is a bit older and that the deed is probably done. But for others who may find it...

I recently looked at new 2020 Keystone that were not only rooftop solar prepped, they already had Keystone's solar package installed. I didn't get up on the roof so no pics of the solar panel, but I have these pics.

A xantrex Inverter/power transfer was mounted to the ceiling of the pass through on a travel trailer, very near Keystone's solar charge controller pre-wire mounted on the front wall. There was a zamf solar charge controller mounted next to that. It was too crowed for me to get good pics with my cell phone. But here's the xantrex...

BTW it powers, in this model, outlets beside the bed, one by the kitchen sink, and one behind the tv.

Mike

[mikec557]

Just found these in my archive too...