Darco/Slides

[sourdough]

Things are a little slow and cold this evening so thought I would share some newly found insight (I guess)…

I recently went RV looking with the intention of focusing on Grand Design. One of my main reasons is the elimination of the Darco on the slides. I went through the Grand Designs we were interested in and looked at other units as well. I found one thing; not one of the units I looked at had Darco under the slides - not one. I checked others (non Keystone) at another dealership and they didn't either. I will note I was not looking at entry trailers but Keystone uses it right on up to the Montana line as I recall.

Making the 2 hour return drive I kept mulling over our choices. The GD isn't a bit better than the Keystone but about 10% higher. You have to get to the top of the line Solitude before you get a MorRyde suspension...which came on my trailer. The FR products were what I expected them to be with extremely poor interior designs IMO. One of the primary drivers for a change is the elimination of the Darco and I want self leveling. I kept wondering WHY Keystone keeps using Darco. The Jaycos I've looked at didn't; Heartland no, etc. Years ago when I bought mine that was not the case but....that was 5 years ago. So,

I tried to contact Matt Zimmerman the CEO of Keystone. He had one of his senior management folks contact me. I visited with him today and here are some takeaways that may or may not be interesting;

The Darco is their current method of covering the bottom of a slide generally. The individual I talked to thought the other manufacturers were still using it as well and I advised I believe they have all moved on. This person has worked for Keystone for 10 years and previously worked for FR.

I asked about the BAL Accuslide cable system and why not rams etc. And this reply was interesting; he said they were very proud of their interior layouts, kitchens, islands etc. (of which I have been a fan for years). Those designs required that they have specific locations for tanks etc. and hydraulic systems restricted the needed versatility. He said in all their tests the 4 point suspension of the cable slides was as strong as hydraulic and provided more and better support of the slide allowing less flex.

I told him of the wear issues of the Darco due to the wear bar design and solutions using rollers, uhmw etc. that costs mucho $$ and is still not satisfactory. He said they do a "top 5" every month of warranty issues and Darco has never been on that list...or any other that he could recall. I told him it takes time for the wear bar to tear up the Darco so 12mos. was not a good timeframe, but, when it came time for the owner to repair it the cost was in the thousands.

Long story short he was unaware of issues with the Darco/wearbar/cable slides. I told him that didn't surprise me once you moved up the food chain. I asked if they couldn't have someone to just "look" at the competition and do some comparisons...and hopefully some upgrades in the near future. He advised his team had a staff meeting tomorrow morning and this would be on the agenda for discussion. Helpful? Don't know but I doubt it. I'm hoping it at least raises a flag and gets them to rethink. As I told him, I know they change units in the blink of an eye, maybe this could be in the next change they implement. :lol::lol::lol:

At least it's something....and my pot of stew is about done so now I'll fill up, eat my chocolate cake/milk, watch more "Chuck" and crash.

[Tbos]

Great post. Thank you. I sincerely hope Keystone starts to listen to Owners a little more. I think that will go along way towards improving their products and hopefully processes.

[Gegrad]

Great post Danny. That's impressive you were able to get an ear of someone in that position in Keystone to begin with. We can only hope they actually take your comments seriously.

[Sulphur1]

Reading about problems encountered on this "Keystone" Forum about Keystone products would be a good start.

[jsmith948]

Great Post. However, I don't buy their statement that they are unaware of any problems with the Darco. I think Keystone continues to use Darco because it is cheaper.
I plan on adding strips of the ultra-high density poly under the slides to prevent the wear damage. The bottoms of the slides are not exposed during transit so that should be good. I also plan on lining the wheel wells to protect the darco from road debris/rocks.:banghead:

[sourdough]

Great Post. However, I don't buy their statement that they are unaware of any problems with the Darco. I think Keystone continues to use Darco because it is cheaper.
I plan on adding strips of the ultra-high density poly under the slides to prevent the wear damage. The bottoms of the slides are not exposed during transit so that should be good. I also plan on lining the wheel wells to protect the darco from road debris/rocks.:banghead:


I have done as you plan with the strips and will also line the wheel wells as John did when I get back home.

I'm not so sure they are actually aware of the issue at a higher level. He was surprised at my concern about the Darco and strongly stated it had never, ever been on their "top 5" issues for warranty they discuss weekly/monthly. As I pointed out to him, I suspect that is probably right because it takes a while for the wear bar to deteriorate the Darco and unless you use the trailer a lot the damage will be out of the warranty period just as mine was and so many others, so, it actually wouldn't hit their warranty radar. I doubt anyone tabulates and categorizes repairs and mods paid for at the owner's expense.

He had told me of the pride they take in trying to make the best unit for the price paid....value. I told him what I stated above and they very well may not know of the Darco issues (along with others) due to the length of time they take to fail, but, every single person spending the amount of money it costs to by an RV should have every confidence that the basic construction (Darco) should be able to serve many years in normal service. Darco was not such a product since it is no more than plasticized paper put into service as a "wear" product for which it was never designed IMO. When the failure comes, as it probably will, 2,3,4 years down the road (depending on use) it is expensive and difficult to fix since the Darco is part of the basic construction design.

What will come of that conversation I have no idea but wish the best. I told him I was in the market for another trailer but could not find one I liked better than mine and of those that were at the top of the list were Keystones - which I would not buy again due to the Darco/wearbars. I also asked him to do his due diligence, have folks look at the competition and see if they couldn't at least compete with them. I knew they could change designs on a dime and mid season so hopefully by mid year next year they could see their way to changing their design. Maybe he will let me know, I may have to look at the lots or maybe send him an email later on. Anyway, just threw that out to them to at least get the issue on record.

[flybouy]

Danny I appreciate the post and the effort. I just have to contemplate how much of what Keystone said was "lip service". To say they don't have folks in the field "looking at the competition" is laughable. I been shocked if they didn't have people actually working in the competition's assembly plants at the minimum. With a growing market I don't think their focus will be on "customer loyalty" or repeat sales but on "how can we make more cheaper".

JMHO

[jsmith948]

Thanks for all the effort on your part.
Hopefully the upper management at Keystone will at least consider the suggestion.
On a related note, our small wardrobe slide has rollers while the long living area slides have the infamous wear bars. Go figure.

[Northofu1]

Thanks Danny,
I will be lining my wheel wells in the spring, I liked John's post and idea.

[sourdough]

Interestingly I just received a call from a director at Keystone a few minutes ago to follow up on the exact situation and what might be the solution. VERY interested, and like the other person I talked to, not really aware of the long term issue Darco posed. He also echoed the other guy in saying that they didn't really follow "post" warranty issues because that was almost impossible to do...and he is right. Just as my repairs, when done at CW, all material was bought outside Keystone and all work performed was paid for by me so Keystone has no idea what issue I had or what was done to correct it.

I was asked to provide, in detail, what the issue with the Darco was and the problems it caused, including the wear bar. He told me my concerns and the observations made about the Darco made perfect sense and he understood the issues it could cause (had no idea prior). He said they would address it immediately but said he could make no promises at the moment. The person I talked to yesterday was the head of the design team at Keystone.

As far as doing their due diligence and monitoring the competition, I spoke to that directly with him. They know about the hard surfaces others are using, but (piecing the 2 conversations together) they have chosen the BAL Accuslide thinking it is a better solution for them vs the rams etc. I think (this was not said) that the BAL design requires the wear bar with the suspension system and not a lot of thought has been given to the material on the bottom of the slide due to that "suspension" and thinking all was good. That combined with the inability to track post warranty repairs can understandably leave upper management "in the dark" so to speak, especially when all dealerships aren't "Keystone owned" vs independent dealers leaving Keystone only able to track warranty work that has to be authorized by them.

Lots of reasons to be cynical, and I am one of the worst in the world, but these 2 folks seemed genuinely concerned and caught off guard with the Darco issue. Lying? Putting up a good front? Maybe. The willingness of the first individual to take the issue to a director level and then for them to call me tells me they didn't just blow it off....and I've done lots of this, trust me. In this case I'm not going to be cynical and give them the benefit of the doubt and hope for the best. Time will tell, and I may be in a different brand of trailer one day but for now I'm pleased they showed the interest, elevated it to the level they did and said they will take action.

Edit: Yes, our bedroom slide has rollers as well and is something I discussed with them as a possible solution.

[flybouy]

Danny the return call sounds very positive. Obviously they weren't "paying lip service" or there wouldn't be the follow up.

Thanks,

[Tbos]

I’ll try to get a picture of the Darco starting to fray on the bottom of my living room slide in my 2019 Alpine. I believe most of the wear is actually coming from towing down the road. The Darco leaves marks on my floor. I’m going to try the UMHW strips to see if this eliminates the wear and black mark problems.

[Sulphur1]

To think using Darco as a long term major slide wear component is laughable. Like the early cars built with bare metal inside doors - meant to last until the next model or two. The comment re positioning of tanks doesn't hold water either (excuse the pun!). - what did they do before! We travel knowing that every journey could cost an extra $10,000 to repair the weak Lippert pin box frame. It is a CHEAP & NASTY built product - Buyer Beware!
If Keystone management doesn't know of these common long term problems the company is not being well run as it has certainly paid out a lot to repair them and it's reputation (read long term viability) is going down the gurgler.
My friend's 2004 Cougar has a big worm gear driven slide that still works with no problems whereas our 2011 has Darco almost ripping up. Despite all advice from Norco the BAL wire driven main slide cannot be adjusted to be upright against the inside seals. Not much fun sitting on a slope all the time! I'm convinced the 'wear bar is in the wrong place (too far in) and the Darco never going to last long - 3 trips over 3 years for us.
So have spent over $200 & a lot of uncomfortable time installing UHMW strips - useless Darco problem fixed. Next even worse - remove slide to fit rollers. Would I buy again? - you already know the answer! Keystone / agents have probably read this already - care factor...……..

[sourdough]

To think using Darco as a long term major slide wear component is laughable. Like the early cars built with bare metal inside doors - meant to last until the next model or two. The comment re positioning of tanks doesn't hold water either (excuse the pun!). - what did they do before! We travel knowing that every journey could cost an extra $10,000 to repair the weak Lippert pin box frame. It is a CHEAP & NASTY built product - Buyer Beware!
If Keystone management doesn't know of these common long term problems the company is not being well run as it has certainly paid out a lot to repair them and it's reputation (read long term viability) is going down the gurgler.
My friend's 2004 Cougar has a big worm gear driven slide that still works with no problems whereas our 2011 has Darco almost ripping up. Despite all advice from Norco the BAL wire driven main slide cannot be adjusted to be upright against the inside seals. Not much fun sitting on a slope all the time! I'm convinced the 'wear bar is in the wrong place (too far in) and the Darco never going to last long - 3 trips over 3 years for us.
So have spent over $200 & a lot of uncomfortable time installing UHMW strips - useless Darco problem fixed. Next even worse - remove slide to fit rollers. Would I buy again? - you already know the answer! Keystone / agents have probably read this already - care factor...……..



I spent quite a bit if time determining if I wanted to post what was going on with my efforts due to the realization I would get responses like this. I decided to do it because there are many here that have issues with the Darco and their reasoning could make sense plus it seemed like it might be a ray of hope going forward. Yes, you can poke holes in it and deride them all you want, and you are entitled to your opinion, but, the folks I talked to were very sincere in their conversations with me and I was uplifted by their interest (and hopefully their willingness to pursue).

As far as your problems with your slides, mine cost around $2400 all said and done to repair so yes, I know that pain and irritation. Unless you have designed RVs I'm not sure how you know the positioning of the rams for the hydraulic slides doesn't affect tank placement - it appears to me it would, and as our conversation went, it is one of the reasons Keystone has some of the best floorplans apparently (and they do). As far as the worm drive rams I've seen several (2 sitting in this park right now) that droop to the outside due to no way to support the slide. If you can't adjust your slide to fit the seals and be level....you need to try again (or have it done), ours are tight and square after 6 years of use. To each his own.

[Brantlyj]

Can someone point me to a thread with pictures of this wear bar/Darco issue?
Is this an issue in the Hideouts as well?

[sourdough]

At the moment I don't know where the pics of darco issues are but just look under your slide(s). If it is covered with a mesh looking plastic stuff that is Darco. If it's darco and is a cable slide it has a wear bar a few inches inside the bottom seal under the slide.

[Brantlyj]

At the moment I don't know where the pics of darco issues are but just look under your slide(s). If it is covered with a mesh looking plastic stuff that is Darco. If it's darco and is a cable slide it has a wear bar a few inches inside the bottom seal under the slide.

Well this is going to eat at me all night until I get to work tomorrow. I suppose I have to extend the slide to see?

[Tbos]

My 2019 Alpine 5th wheel is exhibiting some signs of wear in the Darco. It was new in Apr 2018. Here is a picture under the passenger side. I have washed it off, so it’s not dirty. Normal Darco is black with no sign of wear. 24499. The second picture is the drivers side slide. It has the beginning of wear on it too. 24500 Feel free to pass these to Keystone if it might help the effort.

[Hblick48]

Mine is a 2002. Darco was pretty worn on both ends of the kitchen slide. Then one of the screws holding down the umhw slide bar backed out and the exposed screw head tore the darco.

I purchased 1 inch wide by 1/8 thick adhesive backed umhw tape. Installed it on both ends of slide under slide frame after fixing screw. I left darco in place and taped it up with mobile home flex mend tape. Darco no longer rides on slide bar, it's umhw to umhw and it slides great.

IMHO, they engineer them to outlast the warranty and that's it!

[ROBNPEN]

Any thoughts on modifying the wear bar with slide-out rollers?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HgGEWmeojN0&t=4s

[Tbos]

Mine is a 2002. Darco was pretty worn on both ends of the kitchen slide. Then one of the screws holding down the umhw slide bar backed out and the exposed screw head tore the darco.

I purchased 1 inch wide by 1/8 thick adhesive backed umhw tape. Installed it on both ends of slide under slide frame after fixing screw. I left darco in place and taped it up with mobile home flex mend tape. Darco no longer rides on slide bar, it's umhw to umhw and it slides great.

IMHO, they engineer them to outlast the warranty and that's it!


Do you have a link for the tape you used? I can’t find any listed as an 1/8” thick. Thanks.

[Laredo Tugger]

Any thoughts on modifying the wear bar with slide-out rollers?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HgGEWmeojN0&t=4s

While at my dealers service center (for a slide problem, with the slides extended) I asked about installing these aftermarket rollers. They advised against them,stating that they would produce uneven wear marks in the Darco material.
I recently had my slides extended for service of the outside rubber seals. I had a can of dry lubricant with Teflon. I sprayed a small area of the Darco under a slide and noticed a difference in surface friction between the sprayed and unsprayed area. So I sprayed all the Darco under my slides (3). They seem to work smoother. A long term solution? No, but Danny is on the right track for this to be addressed. What is the solution? Not sure, but it is a given it will not be an expensive one for RV manufactures. Competitive price point will always be one of the first components in a new RV.
On a similar note (about corporate response). A member of my family is "high on the food chain" of a national retail store. He said that his new CEO accepts emails (sometimes more than 100 a day, presently) from any customers and that he has a team assigned to reply to concerns in a timely manner. A recent quote on a text he sent (on this topic) stated "you spend money, your opinion matters not ours". Maybe Keystone has adopted this principal, maybe not?
RMc

[Brantlyj]

Checked mine and I have the rack and pinion style. I didn’t see any wear markings on the darco so I’m guessing it does not have any wear bars... I’ll be keeping an eye on it though

[roadglide]

This seems odd on my impact the bedroom slide has plastic Matt with 3 roller. The bigger slide used darco with ware bar distroying the darco and slide from water damage. I added UHMW strips that improved the slide a lot and took the stress off the motor. My point is how come keystone stone can install one nice smooth slide and then build one that can selfdistruct on the same trailer. The darco slide with the bal wear bar has been a lot of trouble befor adding UHMW.

[Steveo57]

I've previously posted this fix that I did to my slide. Glad they're looking at it and hopefully will improve it.

I added some strips to the corners of the slide do it now rides on these strips and is sealed to keep water from wicking down and around the bottom edges of the slide and into the floor.

[sonofcy]

At the moment I don't know where the pics of darco issues are but just look under your slide(s). If it is covered with a mesh looking plastic stuff that is Darco. If it's darco and is a cable slide it has a wear bar a few inches inside the bottom seal under the slide.

My cable slide does NOT have Darco. It's a 2018 Montana.
I do have Darco on the two hydraulic slides and a wear bar inside. This is plastic sliding over plastic so with a little maintenance to the wearbar should last almost forever. I do NOT understand what the issues are, but I am concerned there might be something I need to look into.
I also don't get the wheel well issue, I just looked at mine and when the slide comes in there is a very big steel beam that fills the space above the wheel. Not saying some models don't have a problem, but so far I can't see any issues with mine.

[Brentw]

I spent quite a bit if time determining if I wanted to post what was going on with my efforts due to the realization I would get responses like this. I decided to do it because there are many here that have issues with the Darco and their reasoning could make sense plus it seemed like it might be a ray of hope going forward. Yes, you can poke holes in it and deride them all you want, and you are entitled to your opinion, but, the folks I talked to were very sincere in their conversations with me and I was uplifted by their interest (and hopefully their willingness to pursue).

As far as your problems with your slides, mine cost around $2400 all said and done to repair so yes, I know that pain and irritation. Unless you have designed RVs I'm not sure how you know the positioning of the rams for the hydraulic slides doesn't affect tank placement - it appears to me it would, and as our conversation went, it is one of the reasons Keystone has some of the best floorplans apparently (and they do). As far as the worm drive rams I've seen several (2 sitting in this park right now) that droop to the outside due to no way to support the slide. If you can't adjust your slide to fit the seals and be level....you need to try again (or have it done), ours are tight and square after 6 years of use. To each his own.


Thanks for your voice upstream on this. Oddly, my slide repair cost $2400 as well, the only time our Canadian dollar felt better.
But as to the issue and VPs not hearing it, I believe it, many organizations get filtered pretty badly, " only push the good news" . Glad to hear that you got an ear.

[Larrylane]

Last year I notice the Darco fabric was wearing on both my living room and kitchen slide. After many hours of searching I found out this is a huge problem on many different models and manufacturers for a number of years.

I finally decided to use the fix from many folks that have Forest River RV's which includes pre-formed plastic pieces that attached to the bottom of your slide at each end. This will also fix issues of rain water running down your slide wall over the trim piece near the bottom where the darco fabric wraps the corner of the slide and under this trim piece. This area has been causing water intrusion into the wood floor of the slide.

These plastic pieces (Left-10F17448A, Right 10F17449A) are sold by Majestic Formed Plastics 269-663-2870. They can be used on both type of floors (flush and raised) with wear bar or rollers.

It takes about 2 hrs per slide and are attached with double sided tape that is included. I purchase two sets per side and cut the flange off two of them so I could use flat pieces equally spaced in the middle of the slide. So far I have not had any issues and the slide seams to go in and out much easier.

Installation steps,
1. Locate slide so it is part way in and jack up slide using 2"X6" boards and jack. You should be able to get 1/4" to 1/2" of clearance under your slide.
2. Remove all screws on trim pieces at bottom of slide at both ends. The trim piece should lift away from darco fabric, but should stay attached to slide siding by the silicone caulking. By not totally removing will save time and the need to re-caulk.
3. Repair darco fabric where needed and clean areas where double sided tape will stick to darco fabric. You can by scrim tape from Amazon.
4. Use a tape measure to determine length of plastic slide pieces before cutting. You should be able to run the tape measure under the slide towards the outside. While someone on the outside holds the tape against the furthest point under the slide then measure to the edge of your slide floor behind your trim or pull up your slide carpet. This will be your length for the plastic runner.
5. I used tin snips to cut the plastic pieces to length and any other obstacles.
and to cut the flanges off two of the pieces for flat runners.
6. Test fit before installing.
7. Pull covering off double sided tape starting from the outside towards the inside. Slide the runners from the outside towards the inside and position properly before pushing tape against the underside of the slide out. Be sure to get the 1" flange up and under the trim piece while installing each piece at both ends of the slide. The two pieces in the middle of the slide should be kept as square as possible.
8. After installing all runners be sure to re-install screws on the trim pieces.
9. Remove jacks and blocking.
10. Use some type of silicone or Teflon type lubricant once or twice a year on the runners.

[Tbos]

LarryLane,
Thanks for posting your fix.

[Hblick48]

Do you have a link for the tape you used? I can’t find any listed as an 1/8” thick. Thanks.


Link for uhmw self adhesive tape:

https://www.interstateplastics.com/Durasurf-Eta-Uhmw-Pressure-sensitive-Tape-Accessories-UHMWTAPE.php?vid=20191205160100-5p&kitoptionpk=2244&qty=1

[sourdough]

I am continuing to work on this since there seems to be a lot of issues with this design and what appears to be an obvious solution.

I was in contact with Norco today (Accu Slide) and I was told that they recommend to the OEMs that rollers be used under all their slides. What the manufacturer chooses to do is up to them in the end. The Darco/wear bar is obviously not the optimal option.

I have forwarded what they say their recommendations are to the folks I have been talking to at Keystone and asked that it is confirmed that they have then forwarded it to the CEO of Keystone for consideration or explanation. We'll see where that goes. As one of the member's of one of the boards I'm on said once..."you're just a bully"; no, I'm insistent and persistent, so I'll keep on plugging to see if there is a remedy.

[sonofcy]

I am continuing to work on this since there seems to be a lot of issues with this design and what appears to be an obvious solution.

I was in contact with Norco today (Accu Slide) and I was told that they recommend to the OEMs that rollers be used under all their slides. What the manufacturer chooses to do is up to them in the end. The Darco/wear bar is obviously not the optimal option.

I have forwarded what they say their recommendations are to the folks I have been talking to at Keystone and asked that it is confirmed that they have then forwarded it to the CEO of Keystone for consideration or explanation. We'll see where that goes. As one of the member's of one of the boards I'm on said once..."you're just a bully"; no, I'm insistent and persistent, so I'll keep on plugging to see if there is a remedy.
Has anybody tried using a lubricant on either the Darco or the UHMW wearbar? I thought I saw a YT video showing that but can't remember where.

[sourdough]

Yes, I and many others have done so. Norco (BAL) recommended Zep 45 but it is difficult to find and expensive. Some are using a product from WD40 called Specialist dry lube or something like that. I've used several kinds. The use of a lube is simply due to a design not thought out IMO.

If you consider that the Darco (plasticized paper) is used to cover the bottom of the slide BUT it is supposed to "slide" over the wear bar....for eternity. Of course, it won't and will eventually wear or tear. That coupled with the reality that the long slides will probably eventually start to sort of bow with the ends as the main contact points as mine did (watch the Hidden Ridge video on the BAL Accu Slide) the Darco has no chance and we all have to come up with some ad hoc solution at some point.

Be very careful of what you choose to put on the Darc0/wear bar. When mine first started acting up and I took it to the dealer the first option was to grab the "slide lube" off the shelf at the dealership and liberally spray it under my slides. It was like brown goo, coated the Darco and wear bar and my slide almost stopped working due to binding. I, repeat I, had to take it home, thoroughly wash clean and dry the Darco and wear bar (which improved things a lot) then try to find a solution (uhmw plastic strips). All lubes are not the same and they are definitely not a permanent solution - just buy a case of whatever it is you choose.

[Sulphur1]

Hi Sourdough
My earlier response was not meant to be a rant rather more to inform prospective buyers that the same frame problems still exist and now new issues like Darco are appearing. I wish I had found this forum prior to buying the Cougar. I did try to find out & thought the main one ( frame) was not occurring after 2010. Unfortunately not the case for many who have spent big $ having it fixed. It's strange that rollers are only used on the bedroom slide.
I haven't used any slippery spray as I think it could cause the screws holding the UMHW strips to work free. Need to keep a watch out for this as will rip into the wear bar.
I appreciate your persistent efforts to bring the Darco problem to Keystone management. Time will tell!
Cheers

[sonofcy]

Hi Sourdough
My earlier response was not meant to be a rant rather more to inform prospective buyers that the same frame problems still exist and now new issues like Darco are appearing. I wish I had found this forum prior to buying the Cougar. I did try to find out & thought the main one ( frame) was not occurring after 2010. Unfortunately not the case for many who have spent big $ having it fixed. It's strange that rollers are only used on the bedroom slide.
I haven't used any slippery spray as I think it could cause the screws holding the UMHW strips to work free. Need to keep a watch out for this as will rip into the wear bar.
I appreciate your persistent efforts to bring the Darco problem to Keystone management. Time will tell!
Cheers

Ok, I am confused. You mention wear bars and UHMW as if they are two DIFFERENT things. My wear bars ARE UHMW and there are NO screws through the UHMW. My Montana was built Aug/Sep 2017 and is called a 2018 model. We took delivery of it in late Sep 2017 and have lived in it ever since.

[Sulphur1]

Sonofcy The Darco looked like it was about to tear in the centre of the large slide so after seeing another poster using UMHW I counter sunk / screwed UMHW strips to the underside of the Darco. The slide with UMHW strips runs on the wear bar a lot smoother / faster. Downside floor seams to be soft OSB & screws could work out. May re-insert with glue. I didn't go with the UMHW tape as the Darco scuffing etc looked like it's under a lot of stress & thought it might tear of & rip the Darco with it
The smaller Bedroom slide underside is covered with a different surface that the 3 rollers run on. However it is lifting in places - no problem yet...……..

[Laredo Tugger]

Sonofcy The Darco looked like it was about to tear in the centre of the large slide so after seeing another poster using UMHW I counter sunk / screwed UMHW strips to the underside of the Darco. The slide with UMHW strips runs on the wear bar a lot smoother / faster. Downside floor seams to be soft OSB & screws could work out. May re-insert with glue. I didn't go with the UMHW tape as the Darco scuffing etc looked like it's under a lot of stress & thought it might tear of & rip the Darco with it
The smaller Bedroom slide underside is covered with a different surface that the 3 rollers run on. However it is lifting in places - no problem yet...……..

What width and thickness UMHW strips did you use? Where did you buy them? And if you did the install again you would use an adhesive?
Thanks
RMc

[Sulphur1]

Bought them pre cut from a local plastics supplier that supplies engineering & mining industry - used in high metal to metal wear areas. Installed 3" wide for each end, 2" for strip every 18" and 6" over the damaged Darco in centre of slide. I had to do a quick fix as found bad wear area just before last trip. Saw comments by Roadglide & others (thanks) on this forum. I doubt if glue/silicon etc well stick to darco but something will as it's used on the UMHW tape. need to contact 3M & Soudal if any of their products will work.

[fatcatzzz]

I have the flush floor slides for my kitchen and dining room slides so my slides drop down when fully extended. Can the UMHW be beveled and placed so the strips go up onto the wear bar? If you place the UMHW strips on top of the wear bar the slide will not drop down to create the flush floor. Is this correct, or am I missing something?

[Laredo Tugger]

Thanks for the info Sulphur1.
How thick was the UMHW you installed? And confirming you added nothing to your wear bar? (UMHW,rollers ect..)
Thanks again,
RMc

[Tbos]

Bought them pre cut from a local plastics supplier that supplies engineering & mining industry - used in high metal to metal wear areas. Installed 3" wide for each end, 2" for strip every 18" and 6" over the damaged Darco in centre of slide. I had to do a quick fix as found bad wear area just before last trip. Saw comments by Roadglide & others (thanks) on this forum. I doubt if glue/silicon etc well stick to darco but something will as it's used on the UMHW tape. need to contact 3M & Soudal if any of their products will work.


Any chance you would reveal the name of your local supplier? It would be much easier to deal with company that understands requirements when given them instead of a big box store.

[Sulphur1]

Hey Tom, my local supplier is in Adelaide, South Australia. Cheers

[Laredo Tugger]

Hey Tom, my local supplier is in Adelaide, South Australia. Cheers

Yikes!! Shipping will kill me. ;) I'll just find that stuff on my side of the world.
I suppose "strategically" placed countersunk toggle bolts would help mount the UMHW strips to the slide bottom.
RMc

[sourdough]

Here is a link to a supplier. They are who I talked to before I had mine fixed and who I referred the dealership to so I assume they used them.

https://www.eplastics.com/sheets/uhmw

[Tbos]

Hey Tom, my local supplier is in Adelaide, South Australia. Cheers


Well that won’t work for me. I should have looked to see where you were located. Oops.

[Laredo Tugger]

Here is a link to a supplier. They are who I talked to before I had mine fixed and who I referred the dealership to so I assume they used them.

https://www.eplastics.com/sheets/uhmw

Thanks Danny. Another project for the trailer this winter. Always something. :D
RMc

[sonofcy]

Sonofcy The Darco looked like it was about to tear in the centre of the large slide so after seeing another poster using UMHW I counter sunk / screwed UMHW strips to the underside of the Darco. The slide with UMHW strips runs on the wear bar a lot smoother / faster. Downside floor seams to be soft OSB & screws could work out. May re-insert with glue. I didn't go with the UMHW tape as the Darco scuffing etc looked like it's under a lot of stress & thought it might tear of & rip the Darco with it
The smaller Bedroom slide underside is covered with a different surface that the 3 rollers run on. However it is lifting in places - no problem yet...……..
If your OSB seems soft, you have a much bigger problem. Water is being absorbed at the end of the slide. The ends are usually protected by a metal strip but that has to be silicone sealed or eternabond taped for 100% water tight seal otherwise the OSB gets wet.

[haywire17]

what kind of adhesive can be used on the darco and the uhmw, i like to cover almost the whole bottom with 1/8 uhmw. my darco is showing wear but not damaged yet prolonging the repair could cause darco to tear.

[sonofcy]

what kind of adhesive can be used on the darco and the uhmw, i like to cover almost the whole bottom with 1/8 uhmw. my darco is showing wear but not damaged yet prolonging the repair could cause darco to tear.

I am not aware of any glue that will stick to UHMW.

[Hblick48]

You could potentially cover bottom with a plastic that you can glue in. Then use self adhesive (1/8 inch x 1/2 inch) UHMW tape at the weight bearing points on the bottom of the slide. I just used the tape on each end and it works great. UMHW sliding on UHMW is like ice skating.

https://www.eplastics.com/accessories/plastic-tape/slick-strips-uhmw

[richck]

Hello Steve. Looking at your post and noticed the sealing you did around the ram. Wondering what you used for that? Also it looks like you might have sealed around the geared arms that go into the frame. If you did what did you use? Was this all done because of mice? Having a hard time, every time I go camping I get mice in the underbelly and bulkhead.

[Steveo57]

Just crawl under the trailer and look for any little hole that they can get in.

I used some wire mesh that I cut to fit around the actuator. Put a piece on both sides of the frame and sealed it up with spray foam. I also used spray foam to seal up around the toothed arm.

Look for any holes in the frame and any access points. My entire front cap was wide open underneath and they could crawl right in and up into the ceiling and underbelly.

[richck]

Thanks Steve. The foam doesn't cause friction and restrict the slide? My bullnose is wide open too and a lovely spot for mice. I used a mesh that seemed to work but I don't think they could get into the ceiling or trailer from there. I thought it was just a cap covering a solid trailer behind.

Keith

[TG10894]

Just posted today and new adventure related to this topic "My slide floor turned to mush". Thanks for the info and the effort.

[wroseblock]

Mine is a 2002. Darco was pretty worn on both ends of the kitchen slide. Then one of the screws holding down the umhw slide bar backed out and the exposed screw head tore the darco.

I purchased 1 inch wide by 1/8 thick adhesive backed umhw tape. Installed it on both ends of slide under slide frame after fixing screw. I left darco in place and taped it up with mobile home flex mend tape. Darco no longer rides on slide bar, it's umhw to umhw and it slides great.

IMHO, they engineer them to outlast the warranty and that's it!
I have wear problems with my 2017 Montana High Country, Where can I purchase this umhw tape?

[Hblick48]

I have wear problems with my 2017 Montana High Country, Where can I purchase this umhw tape?

https://www.eplastics.com/accessories/plastic-tape/slick-strips-uhmw/SLICKSTRIP0-060X-1-000X25FT

I used 1/16 inch thick tape per the above link.

[wroseblock]

Did you just apply the tape over the Darco?

[koda57]

Check out Duo Form Slide Out Skis as another option. I don't know if they work but sounds like it may help certain issues. I have a small scrape in my Darco that is 3" in from the outer edge. I'm going to apply scrim tape and install the ski over the tape to prevent it from getting worse. The ski covers 6" on the bottom. I have ordered the skis. But until I touch and feel it I cant make my finale decision if I will use them. Most likely I will because I don't have many choices.

[bearcat77]

Taking my 12 month old High Country to the dealer next week for Darco issue. I’ll post if there is any new kind fix from Keystone.

30725

[sourdough]

Taking my 12 month old High Country to the dealer next week for Darco issue. I’ll post if there is any new kind fix from Keystone.

30725


Yours looks like mine would have looked if I didn't know to check it....after the 1st trip...it was already damaged. The rollers are great on the right surface but darco is just not meant for what they make it do. Is yours going in under warranty?

[wroseblock]

How did you attach the strips? I just received the umhw today and just curious how you attached yours. If you used screws, how many did you use?

[roadglide]

How did you attach the strips? I just received the umhw today and just curious how you attached yours. If you used screws, how many did you use?
I used 3/16 6 inch strips I cut from 2x4 sheet. I drilled and counter sunk the small 1 inch screws. The material is really stiff and could have gotten away with half the screws and One strip on each end don’t forget to silicone the outsides to keep water from getting under the strip.

[bearcat77]

Got my Montana HC back today. Just to recap, I reported the issue about 3 days before my warranty expired and dropped the unit off at the dealer about 3 weeks later. Dealer had it for about 2.5 months although I’m sure the holidays can be blamed for a couple of those weeks.

Keystone paid for 6 hours of labor and replaced the Darco, the slide room rollers, the carpet under the slide room, the wear bar under the slide room, and added 5 slides plates (part number 538867).

[Gwebb2762]

I have a keystone bullet 2016. Went to deploy slide out and shuck the whole trailer... noticed it sounds like it on the top of the slide not the bottom seeing that it retracts just fine. I’ve ordered some rollers for the bottom and ordered new gearbox as well. Not sure if this will do the job. Any suggestions would be appreciated.

[wroseblock]

Do you have cable slides? If so there shouldn't be anything on the top causing problems other than the cables possibly binding. I installed the umhw strips and my slides move much smother and no additional wear on my darco.

[mikec557]

...
I installed the umhw strips and my slides move much smother and no additional wear on my darco.

I think we may be interested in in your umhw strips. Do you have a link to those?

Thanks

[wroseblock]

Here is the link that was provided to me through this site, very quick delivery. https://www.eplastics.com/accessories/plastic-tape/slick-strips-uhmw/SLICKSTRIP0-060X-1-000X25FT. On the previous pages of this thread you can see the best way to attach the strips.