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atkinsb3
12-01-2019, 07:36 AM
So I was washing my trailer and there's a spot on the roof that had been collapsed. The last person on it was the place that checked and resealed the roof. But that was long enough ago that I doubt they'd own up to it.

I cut the ceiling out underneath the spot to see what was going on and possible shore the area up. Basically the rafter is bent at the top in that area and some of the screws have pulled through the decking. It's a no walk roof so if anyone is wondering what that means, I guess this is a prime example.

Any thoughts on how to fix this?

I was thinking about shimming the area between the rafter and decking to try and level the spot; was even considering finding the screws from the roof, making a hole in the rubber roof to back them out, shim between the decking and the rafter and then put the screw back in and cover the area with roof repair tape and dycor.

...or even trying to submit an insurance claim. But if I did that I don't know if I want anyone touching my trailer, seems like every time they do something gets screwed up. (Trying to attach pictures)

atkinsb3
12-01-2019, 07:38 AM
Here's the pictures..

Maineiacs
12-01-2019, 08:00 AM
The top photo appears to show a metal beam or strut that runs from left to right. Just above it is the wood rafter that is cracked and sagging. Am I interpreting the picture correctly?


If so, what are the approximate cross section dimensions of the wood rafter? If there's enough "meat" to the rafter you might be able to sister in a reinforcing side piece.

atkinsb3
12-01-2019, 08:18 AM
It does look like wood in the picture but that is the lip of the aluminum beam.

Maineiacs
12-01-2019, 08:41 AM
So, someone really fat was on the roof and actually bent the aluminum rafter? Wow!


If it was wood, I'd have a bunch of suggestions. As it is, you have my best wishes that someone comes along with some good ideas.

jsb5717
12-01-2019, 09:04 AM
First, I'd be temped to put the dealer or person who was on the roof on notice of the issue just to have it on record.

As for the repair, short of major surgery I think your shimming idea has merit...something thick enough to push the low spot up out of the roof so it looks right and drains correctly. Since it's suppose to be a non-walk on roof it should be as good a fix as any.

atkinsb3
12-01-2019, 09:17 AM
So, someone really fat was on the roof and actually bent the aluminum rafter? Wow!


If it was wood, I'd have a bunch of suggestions. As it is, you have my best wishes that someone comes along with some good ideas.

Thanks for the best wishes, I'll probably need them ;)

sourdough
12-01-2019, 09:18 AM
Ouch! Atkins, first and foremost I would be front and center with that dealership. If no one has been on the roof but them the damage rests squarely in their corner and it appears obvious to me that someone stepped/stomped/jumped where the damage is. And yes, like you, I KNOW when I take my trailer in for work something, somewhere will be broken that should never have been touched.

I have the roof mtce. done on my trailer and found that they had stepped on the bath skylight and cracked the outer shell. I found this the year after they did it (performed in Oct. returned in April). They stepped up and replaced the skylight. I'm afraid yours won't be so simple. As a last resort have you got the tools to fabricate maybe a 5/4 length of oak to fit the shape it should be and attach it atop the depressed area?

atkinsb3
12-01-2019, 09:33 AM
First, I'd be temped to put the dealer or person who was on the roof on notice of the issue just to have it on record.

As for the repair, short of major surgery I think your shimming idea has merit...something thick enough to push the low spot up out of the roof so it looks right and drains correctly. Since it's suppose to be a non-walk on roof it should be as good a fix as any.

That's my thinking so far, would definitely be the easiest especially since I already opened up the ceiling.

I'll probably end up putting a patch on the rubber roof regardless of which way I go. The roof looks porous where it sunk, my thinking is because it was probably stretched. Luckily no water intrusion yet.

I'll be making the dealer aware of it. They seem to have the same techs every time I've been there and if they did it (which is an extremely high probability) they know they did. Whether they admit it or not will be another story. I'll be taking it back to them anyway at some point for the annual appliance check.

atkinsb3
12-01-2019, 09:39 AM
Ouch! Atkins, first and foremost I would be front and center with that dealership. If no one has been on the roof but them the damage rests squarely in their corner and it appears obvious to me that someone stepped/stomped/jumped where the damage is. And yes, like you, I KNOW when I take my trailer in for work something, somewhere will be broken that should never have been touched.

I have the roof mtce. done on my trailer and found that they had stepped on the bath skylight and cracked the outer shell. I found this the year after they did it (performed in Oct. returned in April). They stepped up and replaced the skylight. I'm afraid yours won't be so simple. As a last resort have you got the tools to fabricate maybe a 5/4 length of oak to fit the shape it should be and attach it atop the depressed area?

Glad to hear I'm not alone, though I know I'm not from reading the forum, and in reality don't even have the worst of it!?!?

I do have the tools to fabricate something like that.

I'll be taking the pictures to the dealership and talking to the service manager.

JRTJH
12-01-2019, 10:52 AM
After showing the problem to the service manager, if they don't step up to fix the problem, you might consider a couple of 4" screw jacks, one on each side of the A/C duct, lift the rafter with the jacks, bending it back to "somewhat close", then fabricating a "sandwich of 3/8" plywood (NOT OSB) for each side of the rafter, screw the two plywood supports together with the rafter between them, then shim above the "new and improved rafter" to get the roof decking back into the proper "crown". Glue the shims to the sandwich rafter and reassemble the ceiling.

If it were me, since you've got the space and have already cut away the ceiling panels, I'd extend the cut 6-8 inches further so you have good access to the damaged rafter. It'll make work much easier...

Here's one place to get a couple of small screw jacks: https://www.mscdirect.com/product/details/06575849 cost is about $30

Or you could consider using the trailer floor, a standard bottle jack and a 2x4 cut to the proper length to "push the rafter back into position" by using the bottle jack and 2x4 to "lift" it at the holes cut next to the A/C ducting. If you do cut the ceiling panel a bit further to access both sides of the rafter, you could cut a "Y" in the 2x4 and use a block through the hole in the rafter and the "Y" on both sides of the rafter, then use the bottle jack to push the top part of the rafter back into position.

All is not lost, just a frustrating situation. I would suggest NOT cutting or accessing anything from the top unless it's the only way. Once the TPO is cut, from then on, there's always a risk of a leak at any patch, so avoid that if possible.

atkinsb3
12-01-2019, 01:14 PM
After showing the problem to the service manager, if they don't step up to fix the problem, you might consider a couple of 4" screw jacks, one on each side of the A/C duct, lift the rafter with the jacks, bending it back to "somewhat close", then fabricating a "sandwich of 3/8" plywood (NOT OSB) for each side of the rafter, screw the two plywood supports together with the rafter between them, then shim above the "new and improved rafter" to get the roof decking back into the proper "crown". Glue the shims to the sandwich rafter and reassemble the ceiling.

If it were me, since you've got the space and have already cut away the ceiling panels, I'd extend the cut 6-8 inches further so you have good access to the damaged rafter. It'll make work much easier...

Here's one place to get a couple of small screw jacks: https://www.mscdirect.com/product/details/06575849 cost is about $30

Or you could consider using the trailer floor, a standard bottle jack and a 2x4 cut to the proper length to "push the rafter back into position" by using the bottle jack and 2x4 to "lift" it at the holes cut next to the A/C ducting. If you do cut the ceiling panel a bit further to access both sides of the rafter, you could cut a "Y" in the 2x4 and use a block through the hole in the rafter and the "Y" on both sides of the rafter, then use the bottle jack to push the top part of the rafter back into position.

All is not lost, just a frustrating situation. I would suggest NOT cutting or accessing anything from the top unless it's the only way. Once the TPO is cut, from then on, there's always a risk of a leak at any patch, so avoid that if possible.

I thought about a jack and 2x4 but this is right over the counter top and sink. Wasn't sure how the cabinet would support the pressure of the jack. Might give it a try and just keep an eye and ear on things as I crank it up.

Have been considering opening the ceiling on the other side of the rafter for a better look so will probably go ahead and do that. Ordered a circular saw attachment for my Dremel to cut into the ceiling so might as well get some more use out of it :)

I'll look into the small screw jacks too. Thanks for the link.

I had my doubts about cutting the TPO but will leave that alone, definitely don't want to make things worse.

It will be a week or two before I can spend some more quality time on this, but will make sure to post updates.

skids
12-02-2019, 08:23 AM
Do you think you can leave the aluminum square “beam” as-is and build support on both sides with plywood as John suggested?(I think). With screws pulled partially out of the aluminum square stock, if you lift to straighten it, won’t they poke through the membrane? It would be very tough to cut the screws flush before straightening the beam.

atkinsb3
12-02-2019, 09:21 AM
From my initial look, the screw where the dip in the beam is the deepest pulled through the decking. I'll have to check the others but I think for the most part the screw threads hung onto the beam and if something gave way it was the screw head coming through the decking. But will be watching that once I start moving/adding things, thanks. I definitely don't want to poke anything through the membrane or pull anymore screw heads through the decking.

daynawide
12-08-2019, 08:23 AM
sister two pieces of aluminum angle to the existing one. One on each side.

Tatanka Ob Waci
12-08-2019, 08:34 AM
I would put the dealer on notice. Contact your insurance company and once they give you the go ahead, find a FlexArmor dealer and have them put on a new roof for you that is guaranteed for life!

CaptnJohn
12-08-2019, 11:19 AM
I never used screw jacks that John suggested but was about to suggest his option 2. If using a jack on the island i'd put a large then smaller piece of plywood, probably 3 pieces to spread te weight.

chuckster57
12-08-2019, 11:31 AM
We have used jacks in some repairs. Make the footprint as large as possible. Hydraulic jacks are our preferred tool with a 2X4 to take up the gap.

Badbart56
12-08-2019, 01:08 PM
I would put the dealer on notice. Contact your insurance company and once they give you the go ahead, find a FlexArmor dealer and have them put on a new roof for you that is guaranteed for life!

Agreed. I've had a lifetime roof for three years now and only wash it once or twice a year. Don't have to worry about anyone walking on it every year to reseal it anymore.

atkinsb3
12-08-2019, 04:28 PM
A lot of things to think about. Still haven't had time to work on this since cutting the ceiling open to look. Life's getting in the way and we haven't even put up Christmas decorations yet, so next weekend will be out too.

We use the camper of Thanksgiving and Christmas when the family is here. I put the insulation and duct back then covered the hole with some brown shipping paper and secured it to the ceiling with blue painters tape.

My thinking was I didn't want the heater circulating the insulation fibers through the air, and I didn't want to leave a gaping hole exposed.

The Mrs had been going in and out of the camper after I covered the hole and when I asked her about it said she didn't even notice. That took a lot of pressure off me as far as the finishing work after the repair is concerned :rolleyes:

duh1
12-08-2019, 05:36 PM
Check insurance. Worth an ask and ask the dealer too. Big box of tears. ?? That doesn’t sound good for recent keystones! Or is there some other issue I don’t need to know about. Looking to upgrade to a new keystone bullet.

LewisB
12-09-2019, 05:14 AM
What really needs to be fixed? Is it the bent rafter or is it the low spot on the roof? In attempting to fix the rafter (most of the discussion), it is going to be really difficult to do without creating even more problems. If you jack this from the bottom, a lot of things could go wrong/slip and end up poking a hole up through the roof membrane from the inside. And a jury-rigged rafter is likely to not be significantly stronger than the bent one you now have.

Maybe you should focus on how the fix the low spot on the roof rather than the bent rafter. Would it be possible to raise the roofing material and support it from the bent rafter as is? Using something like 1" wide X 1/8" thick rubber, could you slip material between the bent rafter and the plywood roof material; build something that looks like an upside-down leaf spring with the maximum thickness at the center of the low spot?

I know this does not address the cause, but it might fix the real issue - the low spot. Just a thought...Best of luck on whatever you decide on the repair!

skids
12-09-2019, 06:39 AM
Regarding screw jacks, I have raised and supported my roof over the deck by cutting 2x4s longer than the height and slid them in place to raise. The problem with this or with jacks is that it could interfere with the location were you need to beef-up the beam.

atkinsb3
12-09-2019, 09:03 AM
Check insurance. Worth an ask and ask the dealer too. Big box of tears. ?? That doesn’t sound good for recent keystones! Or is there some other issue I don’t need to know about. Looking to upgrade to a new keystone bullet.

I plan to check with my insurance and maybe even try the FlexArmour route as mentioned a couple times if it goes through. My deductible is only $250.

The selling dealer/service dept made owning this trailer a huge pain so when I learned people named their trailers, I came up with Big Box of Tears, mostly so I could laugh and keep my sanity. I would buy another Keystone but would go in much wiser. The big lesson out of all of it for me is a dealer/service center can make or break the experience.

I had to wait until the 1yr warranty expired for the second dealer to do the work, and I was really happy with them...until I saw the roof.

But as we all know it's not just RV service depts who screw things up. With few exceptions anyone who works on anything you own screws something up or fails to put it back together correctly. Luckily I'm handy enough to fix most things myself.

atkinsb3
12-10-2019, 09:04 AM
What really needs to be fixed? Is it the bent rafter or is it the low spot on the roof? In attempting to fix the rafter (most of the discussion), it is going to be really difficult to do without creating even more problems. If you jack this from the bottom, a lot of things could go wrong/slip and end up poking a hole up through the roof membrane from the inside. And a jury-rigged rafter is likely to not be significantly stronger than the bent one you now have.

Maybe you should focus on how the fix the low spot on the roof rather than the bent rafter. Would it be possible to raise the roofing material and support it from the bent rafter as is? Using something like 1" wide X 1/8" thick rubber, could you slip material between the bent rafter and the plywood roof material; build something that looks like an upside-down leaf spring with the maximum thickness at the center of the low spot?

I know this does not address the cause, but it might fix the real issue - the low spot. Just a thought...Best of luck on whatever you decide on the repair!


The low spot is my main concern because the membrane drops over the ridge created between the two decking boards and I have an inkling it will eventually tear.

Unfortunately (or not) the decking still seems to be attached to the rafter and since I can't remove the screws, the rafter will need to be straightened at least to some extent :banghead:

atkinsb3
12-10-2019, 09:11 AM
So I intend to go talk to the service manager this weekend. The service department is on my way to/from work, but I pass it outside their weekday business hours so I'll have to make a special trip. I think it should be a face to face conversation vs one over the phone.

After that's done, will contact my insurance company if needed.

atkinsb3
12-15-2019, 12:10 PM
So went the the service department and spoke with the service manager, didn't get any love. Long story short said it was too far past the date of service for them to take responsibility.

Lesson for me is look over everything when you pick it up from having service done on it.

I plan to open up the ceiling a little more to expose the other side of the rafter as suggested in this thread and then decide if I want to get my insurance involved. I'm confident I can fix it for less than my deductible and don't know at this point if I want anyone else touching it. Just going to be a little bit before I can get to it.

Steve's 70-5
12-19-2019, 05:48 PM
Put a magnet on the metal and see if it is aluminum, it looks like a metal stud. If metal you can get a 16 or 18 gauge 3 5/8 metal stud or a piece of track and scab it along side of it. If aluminum you need to watch what type of fastners you use so they do not react with the aluminum.

atkinsb3
12-21-2019, 02:34 PM
Just checked the stud and it's magnetic. Good to know. Thanks!

roadglide
12-21-2019, 06:03 PM
Here's the pictures..

The damage is done with no pop up Screws up through the roof . More than likely you will have more work involved and damage trying to repair the area. I would use decor products EPDM part one cleaner then paint EPDM rubber roofing coating . I have used this product on my toy hauler roof it is extremely tough material.

Jim2366
12-22-2019, 05:53 AM
My suggestion is to call your RV Insurance Company and file a claim for the damage.

atkinsb3
02-02-2020, 10:11 AM
So to kind of close this out, ended up shimming btwn the roof and rafter. It leveled up the roof surprisingly well and seems to be a solid fix. All the other things I tried started having adverse effects along the rafter so backed out of them. Will post some pictures when I get the finish work done.