Dry camping cold weather

[Ken / Claudia]

I took the TT this year Elk hunting again, 1st week of November. Thought I would share what happened.
8 nights, camp at 4750 ft. night temps were low-mid 20s. The first night was 17 f. Daytime temps up to mid 40s. This year there were no wind storms and only light wind all week. The climate there is dry (Eastern Or.)
I ran my yamaha 2000IS genny after dark til around 6am. That was about 12 hours each night.
Furnace was set to about 68 at night and off during the day. I did not in close the sides or block off cold air from freely going under the trailer nor have I added any aftermarket means of protection from freezing. I did leave the kitchen/bath sink cabinets open along with the bathroom door all night.
I had a full tank of freshwater, at the end of the trip all holding tanks were all most full. Any showering was done with the outside shower.
So, no freeze problems at all and same with buddies TT. I used about 14 gals of propane. About 9 gallons of gas in the genny.
The road from the paved highway is about 8 miles of gravel and than 3 miles of dirt road. The dirt road had grades up to 8 degrees. Speed was 20 and mostly much less.
Damage to trailer was limited to 2 items. The stereo screws on the right side pulled out and a cabinet door above the bed split. The doors are 4 pieces around the outer frame and a center panel. The frame connected to the hings split. I found that they are stapled and without glue. I fixed both issues already. The stereo screws needed more backing at attach it again. I used a thin wood strip behind the opening. The door was fixed by pushing the side piece back together and glueing it.
The 2013 F-350 worked without a single issue, I did use Fords anti gel in the fuel tank. I-84 has a long steep grade just east of Pendleton. I made that trip several times with same trailer, pulling with a 2002 F350 7.3 powerstroke at the top the speed was 50 to 55. This trip I was at 72 mph at the top.
I did get an Elk on the second day, 1 shot. Helped my son the rest of the week. He missed 2 times and never hit an Elk. But, he never wanted to shoot rifle competition like me. I did so from age 12 to 52, thousands of rounds fired in practice and in matches on a national and international level. That helps marksmanship.

[Logan X]

Ken,

That sounds like an awesome trip, thank you for sharing it. Just out of curiosity, what was the reason for running the generator all night? Was it so the furnace wouldn’t drain the battery?

Congrats on the Elk.

[Danno]

Sounds like a great hunting trip. My dad and I used to elk hunt just outside of Ukiah, love that country! but that was 50 years ago im am sure it has changed alot.

[Canonman]

Thanks Ken,
A good review of what sounds like a great hunting trip as well as describing how to dry camp in cold weather.
While I no longer take game, I still enjoy putting the "sneak" on them:)
We don't usually keep the Cougar above 60 degrees and therefore likely run the furnace much less. Although there is some risk of freeze in the holding tanks we have not had any issues recently camping several days with 9 to 11 degree low temps. Battery charge was easily maintained with the solar charger.
Glad you were able to fill your tag and wish you many more successful hunts in the future.

[Ken / Claudia]

I have 2 flairy new 6v batteries and think they could handle a night without the genny running. I did want them topped off incase we were gone from camp until after dark. So, I ran the genny and was going to get up and shut it down During the night, I was too wore out and let it run all night. It did not use up a whole tank full during the night and it never kept anyone awake. The furnace did wake me up a number of times.
Thanks for the replies.

[Logan X]

I also recently camped in cold weather, Big Bear CA, about 6500 feet. It got down to the 20s overnight so I ran my furnace set to 50. I also have 2 6v batteries and I was monitoring thier status with a Victron battery monitor. I watched about 8 hours of TV a day (I obviously wasn’t hunting) and all of the normal lights and furnace etc. The lowest the batteries got in 24 hours was 83% state of charge. I ran my Honda 2000 for about an hour and 20 minutes in the morning and it brought the batteries back up to 100%. I was very happy and impressed with the batteries performance.

Thanks again for sharing about your trip.

[andrewlairdmiller]

I have a 2018 Cougar half ton with a polar PKG. It is unexpectedly cold here (~17 degrees F tonight) and I did not winterize camper yet. I am nervous about possible freezing issues in the camper. I have the furnace set to 70 and the inside faucets are dripping. Hopefully no freezing issues will occur. I have read that even though the polar PKG is advertised to zero degrees, Keystone actually claims that they do no recommend camping below 32 degrees!

[JRTJH]

I have a 2018 Cougar half ton with a polar PKG. It is unexpectedly cold here (~17 degrees F tonight) and I did not winterize camper yet. I am nervous about possible freezing issues in the camper. I have the furnace set to 70 and the inside faucets are dripping. Hopefully no freezing issues will occur. I have read that even though the polar PKG is advertised to zero degrees, Keystone actually claims that they do no recommend camping below 32 degrees!

I would suggest turning your water pump off and opening all the faucets completely. That will eliminate any trapped water in the faucets. I'd also set a table lamp with a 60 watt bulb behind the toilet so the heat from the bulb can prevent the toilet flush valve from freezing. Also pour about a cup of RV antifreeze into each sink drain and flush the toilet (to remove all water) and pour about a cup of RV antifreeze into the bowl (to seal against odors and to protect the flush disc from being pushed away from the rubber seal if water should freeze in the toilet.

Tomorrow, you might consider winterizing completely before it gets any colder.....

I'd also open the low point drains, empty the fresh water tank and the water heater today.

[Roscommon48]

Ken, I hate to admit it but i think your thread is the longest I've ever seen on this forum. You win.


I have no idea if there was a question in the thread. Sorry, I tried to read it.


RVing in cold weather is simply a challenge and it depends on how cold 'cold weather' means.

[jsmith948]

Ken, I hate to admit it but i think your thread is the longest I've ever seen on this forum. You win.


I have no idea if there was a question in the thread. Sorry, I tried to read it..

Just...Wow.:rolleyes:

[flybouy]

Ken, I hate to admit it but i think your thread is the longest I've ever seen on this forum. You win.


I have no idea if there was a question in the thread. Sorry, I tried to read it.


RVing in cold weather is simply a challenge and it depends on how cold 'cold weather' means.

This forum is more than just a question and answer session. Ken appropriately stated he was "sharing his experience". That doesn't imply that he did or didnot have a problem or a question.

[notanlines]

Is it just me, or does it seem like a long, cold winter has already set in in Grand Rapids?

[Canonman]

I have a 2018 Cougar half ton with a polar PKG. It is unexpectedly cold here (~17 degrees F tonight) and I did not winterize camper yet. I am nervous about possible freezing issues in the camper. I have the furnace set to 70 and the inside faucets are dripping. Hopefully no freezing issues will occur. I have read that even though the polar PKG is advertised to zero degrees, Keystone actually claims that they do no recommend camping below 32 degrees!

I read on Keystone's web site that Dometic tested the Keystone Four Season Package by keeping the T-stat at 70 and registered the tank temps at 45.
"Believe It Or Not" :lol:https://www.keystonerv.com/upper-navigation-pages/community/krv-blog/content-container/four-seasons-living-in-a-montana/

[travelin texans]

Ken, I hate to admit it but i think your thread is the longest I've ever seen on this forum. You win.


I have no idea if there was a question in the thread. Sorry, I tried to read it.


RVing in cold weather is simply a challenge and it depends on how cold 'cold weather' means.

I'm sure the OP appreciates all your good advice!
NOT!
Maybe another cup of coffee will help!!

[MarkEHansen]

I also recently camped in cold weather, Big Bear CA, about 6500 feet. It got down to the 20s overnight so I ran my furnace set to 50. I also have 2 6v batteries and I was monitoring thier status with a Victron battery monitor. I watched about 8 hours of TV a day (I obviously wasn’t hunting) and all of the normal lights and furnace etc. The lowest the batteries got in 24 hours was 83% state of charge. I ran my Honda 2000 for about an hour and 20 minutes in the morning and it brought the batteries back up to 100%. I was very happy and impressed with the batteries performance.

Thanks again for sharing about your trip.

Did you recharge the batteries by simply connecting the generator to the trailer's pig-tail and letting the on-board charger run, or did you connect a separate single-purpose charger to the generator to charge the batteries directly?

I'm asking because I read someone's post that the onboard charger is not that strong and it would take a long time to recharge deep cycle batteries.

I assume that if I wanted to use a separate battery charger, I would have to have the trailer's charger turned off while using it.

We have dual 6V GC batteries as well and we're thinking about trying some dry-camping - I'm just wondering what to expect in the area of charging the batteries after each night.

[Logan X]

Did you recharge the batteries by simply connecting the generator to the trailer's pig-tail and letting the on-board charger run, or did you connect a separate single-purpose charger to the generator to charge the batteries directly?

I'm asking because I read someone's post that the onboard charger is not that strong and it would take a long time to recharge deep cycle batteries.

I assume that if I wanted to use a separate battery charger, I would have to have the trailer's charger turned off while using it.

We have dual 6V GC batteries as well and we're thinking about trying some dry-camping - I'm just wondering what to expect in the area of charging the batteries after each night.


That is a great question. I use the onboard OEM charger. I plug the shore power cord into my 2k generator (I use a bonded plug so the EMS will work with the generator).

I have taken two Boondocking trips in the last month and after discharging the batteries to the low or mid 80s state of charge every day, it consistently takes about an hour to an hour and a half of running the generator to bring the batteries back up to the high 90s or 100%.

I was very pleased with how well the batteries worked and how well the generator topped off the batteries. The OEM charger seemed to work great.

[MarkEHansen]

That is a great question. I use the onboard OEM charger. I plug the shore power cord into my 2k generator (I use a bonded plug so the EMS will work with the generator).

I have taken two Boondocking trips in the last month and after discharging the batteries to the low or mid 80s state of charge every day, it consistently takes about an hour to an hour and a half of running the generator to bring the batteries back up to the high 90s or 100%.

I was very pleased with how well the batteries worked and how well the generator topped off the batteries. The OEM charger seemed to work great.

Thanks, Mike. That's great news. I'll try that myself :)

[JRTJH]

Did you recharge the batteries by simply connecting the generator to the trailer's pig-tail and letting the on-board charger run, or did you connect a separate single-purpose charger to the generator to charge the batteries directly?

I'm asking because I read someone's post that the onboard charger is not that strong and it would take a long time to recharge deep cycle batteries.

I assume that if I wanted to use a separate battery charger, I would have to have the trailer's charger turned off while using it.

We have dual 6V GC batteries as well and we're thinking about trying some dry-camping - I'm just wondering what to expect in the area of charging the batteries after each night.

There are a number of variables in any answer to your question. So, maybe an explanation of what "you have onboard and its capabilities" will get you started.

Most Keystone RV's are built with a WFCO 55 amp power center. That means there is a 55 amp converter that makes DC voltage at 12 volts and "up to 55 amps" as required by the trailer's electrical system.

The way the converter works is a "priority system".

When you first plug in the shore power cord (to a campground pedestal or a generator) the first priority is to power the trailer 12 volt system. That means the converter's output is directed to provide 100% of the lights, refrigerator, LPG monitor, furnace fan, etc.

The second priority is the battery charge circuit. Remaining power output from the converter (after the first priority needs are met) will be directed to the battery charger section of the power center.

Now, there are some things that will affect that output. If the converter maximum output is 55 amps (typical for most Keystone RV's) and the demand is 60 amps from the trailer, then the battery will continue to discharge, even though you're connected to shore power/generator.

Another condition that affects battery charging: If the battery is fully charged or "significantly charged" then even if there is only 4 or 5 amps directed to the trailer systems, there may only be 2 or 3 amps used for battery charging. In that case, the converter output will reduce automatically, only providing what is necessary. You can tell this is happening because the cooling fan in the converter will stop "humming" as the demand decreases.

So, you "could get" 45 amps of battery charging capacity or you "could get" 0 amps of battery charging capacity, depending on what other devices you have turned on and drawing 12 volts from the converter output.

Typically, most trailers will charge the batteries at "up to" 20-35 amps, depending on availability of other devices and what they are drawing.

Usually, when dry camping, most people charge their batteries in the morning when the trailer systems are not being heavily used. This means maximum amperage capacity is available to quickly recharge the trailer batteries.

On the other hand, if you try to recharge in the late afternoon, when the DW is cooking (exhaust fan running) the refrigerator is being opened and closed often, the kids are watching TV with a lot of lights on while you're getting a quick shower (water pump use) then you'll not have much "left over amperage" from that 55 amps of available output for the onboard charger to direct to the batteries....

Generally speaking, most people will get "more and faster battery recharge capability" from the onboard charger (20-50 amps) than they will from a "stand alone 15 amp battery charger from Sears".... That said, trying to quickly recharge deep cycle batteries (or even dual use marine deep cycle batteries) with a "high capacity battery charger" (one of those roll around shop rechargers) could overheat your batteries, cause them to overcharge, even cause them to explode if things "go bad".... (not to mention they're heavy, take up precious storage space and are hell to roll around the campsite, not to mention trying to keep them dry and being unable to use them when it's raining and the batteries are outside.

I'd suggest for most situations, you're better off just plugging your generator into the trailer and let it do the recharging. It'll be quicker, safer for battery longevity and give you the best results.....

Now, if you've got hundreds of extra bucks to buy some exotic battery recharge system, you can get some that will make the WFCO power center "pale by comparison" but most users aren't in that category.....

[ctbruce]

Is it just me, or does it seem like a long, cold winter has already set in in Grand Rapids?I asked that TWO months ago!

[Logan X]

We have dual 6V GC batteries as well and we're thinking about trying some dry-camping - I'm just wondering what to expect in the area of charging the batteries after each night.

Mark,

This is a little off topic and you may already know all of this but I just recently figured it out. I wanted to mention the inverter I have been using. It has been a game changer for my dry camping experience. It is a 300 watt inverter that has two 120v outlets and a couple of USB ports. It has a 12v plug and I plug it into the 12v outlet by my TV, so there is no wiring involved.

My kids like to watch TV and so do I, it has been great to run the TV and Apple TV off of the batteries. The dual 6v batteries last a long time even with the TV on.

The TV is the main thing I need the inverter for. If I want to run the microwave or the coffee maker, I just turn on the generator.

Here is a link if you are interested

https://www.amazon.com/BESTEK-300Watt-Power-Inverter-Adapter/dp/B07KQ4Q2L5

[MarkEHansen]

Great info, Mike. Thanks.

[JRTJH]

Mark,

This is a little off topic and you may already know all of this but I just recently figured it out. I wanted to mention the inverter I have been using. It has been a game changer for my dry camping experience. It is a 300 watt inverter that has two 120v outlets and a couple of USB ports. It has a 12v plug and I plug it into the 12v outlet by my TV, so there is no wiring involved.

My kids like to watch TV and so do I, it has been great to run the TV and Apple TV off of the batteries. The dual 6v batteries last a long time even with the TV on.

The TV is the main thing I need the inverter for. If I want to run the microwave or the coffee maker, I just turn on the generator.

Here is a link if you are interested

https://www.amazon.com/BESTEK-300Watt-Power-Inverter-Adapter/dp/B07KQ4Q2L5

Just a few comments:

There is a warning in the Winegard antenna manual concerning the 12 volt outlet. It reads:

WARNING
DO NOT connect high
current devices such
as hair dryers to this
receptacle. Maximum
current rating of this
receptacle is 8 amps at
+12 VDC.

The input amperage draw of a 12 volt DC to 120 volt AC inverter producing 300 watts of AC power is 29 amps of DC. That's almost 4 times the maximum amperage rating of the plug that you're using to power your 300 watt inverter.

The wiring behind it (that powers that plug) is typically 16 ga multi-strand wire. If the wire was 12 gauge, a 10' run is rated at 13.8 volts to carry 15-20 amps. (That's 15 amps sustained and 20 amps surge)

Probably, to date, you've only drawn 60-100 watts through the inverter, but should you use the rated 300 watts, chances are likely that you'd overload and probably overheat the wiring in your trailer.

Your 300 watt inverter can draw significantly more power than both the socket and the wiring to the socket are rated to carry. You are risking overheating the wire and potentially setting up a situation that might start a fire behind the wall panel in your trailer.

A 300 watt inverter should have 10 gauge wire to provide power if the battery is 7-10 feet from the outlet/inverter.

You can read about inverter current draw here: https://www.redarc.com.au/faq-tech-tips/inverter-current-draw

You can read about wire size for "automotive DC wiring requirements" here: http://www.offroaders.com/technical/12-volt-wiring-tech-gauge-to-amps/

ADDED: The Amazon website indicates that the inverter "has a built in 40 amp fuse"... You're plugging that into a socket rated for 8 amps "max" and that's protected (at your 12 volt DC distribution panel) by a 15 amp DC fuse.

[Logan X]

Just a few comments:

There is a warning in the Winegard antenna manual concerning the 12 volt outlet. It reads:

WARNING
DO NOT connect high
current devices such
as hair dryers to this
receptacle. Maximum
current rating of this
receptacle is 8 amps at
+12 VDC.

The input amperage draw of a 12 volt DC to 120 volt AC inverter producing 300 watts of AC power is 29 amps of DC. That's almost 4 times the maximum amperage rating of the plug that you're using to power your 300 watt inverter.

The wiring behind it (that powers that plug) is typically 16 ga multi-strand wire. If the wire was 12 gauge, a 10' run is rated at 13.8 volts to carry 15-20 amps. (That's 15 amps sustained and 20 amps surge)

Probably, to date, you've only drawn 60-100 watts through the inverter, but should you use the rated 300 watts, chances are likely that you'd overload and probably overheat the wiring in your trailer.

Your 300 watt inverter can draw significantly more power than both the socket and the wiring to the socket are rated to carry. You are risking overheating the wire and potentially setting up a situation that might start a fire behind the wall panel in your trailer.

A 300 watt inverter should have 10 gauge wire to provide power if the battery is 7-10 feet from the outlet/inverter.

You can read about inverter current draw here: https://www.redarc.com.au/faq-tech-tips/inverter-current-draw

You can read about wire size for "automotive DC wiring requirements" here: http://www.offroaders.com/technical/12-volt-wiring-tech-gauge-to-amps/

ADDED: The Amazon website indicates that the inverter "has a built in 40 amp fuse"... You're plugging that into a socket rated for 8 amps "max" and that's protected (at your 12 volt DC distribution panel) by a 15 amp DC fuse.

Thanks John, good info. I’m just using it for the TV so I believe I am within the current rating for that outlet. If I suggest that set up to anyone in the future, I will be sure to point out the limit on the outlet’s capacity.

[Ken / Claudia]

I only plugged in the genny to the trailer power cord, no other source used for charging the batteries. Before starting the genny at night the 12v socket readout I installed would show 12.2v and up to 12.8v. When the genny was running it normally showed 13.4v.
Last year with dual 12v batteries about 1 year old the readout was before starting the genny was as low as 11.8v
It seemed the 2 6v batteries did hold a charge longer. No idea how long it took to get the batteries fully charged each night.

[Greggde]

Congratulations,

[McRod]

I love Elk season.

[ADQ K9]

Thanks for sharing Ken. The temps have been so mild here in Alaska or well the Anchorage area and lack of snow has made me question winterizing the Tumbleweed, but I haven't had the time to go camping recently. It is ready to deploy in case a natural disaster hits. It was a year ago today that a 7.1 quake hit south central Alaska and messed a lot of stuff up.

[Ken / Claudia]

I understand the point of having the RV ready to go if needed. That's not talked about on here much. I winterized mine when cleaning from the hunt trip and than put my bug out food and gear back in it. Refilled the propane tanks checked the battery levels. It's ready to go except for water. I have a large driveway and am able to keep any RV here at home. I did a tune up on the genny, it's ready also.

[wiredgeorge]

Ken, I hate to admit it but i think your thread is the longest I've ever seen on this forum. You win.


I have no idea if there was a question in the thread. Sorry, I tried to read it.


RVing in cold weather is simply a challenge and it depends on how cold 'cold weather' means.

OK ... need to get this back on track! Ken, what is your towing capacity and did you take the camper to a CAT scales prior to camping? Please read off all the numbers on your door jamb sticker! Geesh, We gotta ask a question for the thread to be bona fide? OK Roscommon48, since Ken screwed up and posted without the question... I will post it for you: Why did the chicken cross the street? :lol:

[JRTJH]

OK ... need to get this back on track! Ken, what is your towing capacity and did you take the camper to a CAT scales prior to camping? Please read off all the numbers on your door jamb sticker! Geesh, We gotta ask a question for the thread to be bona fide? OK Roscommon48, since Ken screwed up and posted without the question... I will post it for you: Why did the chicken cross the street? :lol:

I thought it was a road, not a street that the chicken crossed... If the answer is, to lay the egg, then that answers yet another question of "which came first"...

See, start a thread without a question and wind up with too many questions to answer..... :party: