King antenna with Key system

[Todd 423]

Has anyone added an aftermarket TV antenna to a RV that has the Key system? I have a 2020 Raptor and the TV reception from the factory omni-directional Furrion antenna is less than desirable.

[mikz86ta]

Been looking at some options myself. We have satellite, but when I need a local ABC, CBS, etc for football games, I gotta use HDTV broadcast.

I don't even know our antenna brand but it's a fixed unit.
Nice to hear some feedback

[allantodd]

Has anyone added an aftermarket TV antenna to a RV that has the Key system? I have a 2020 Raptor and the TV reception from the factory omni-directional Furrion antenna is less than desirable.
Intersting on antenna.
My name tis also Todd and I have a Raptor 423 with same inadequate antenna reception. If you get any ideas i would appreciate any advise you can give me. I contacted Keystone, they just said contact Lippert. Lippert said antennae is best they have available with nothing better available.
Maybe a chat with Winnegard would help. Good luck to us. [email protected]

[mikz86ta]

I tried a Walmart $12 booster last weekend. Had a inline box that's supposed to go outside (or inside) inline on the pole and also had a inline powered filter looking peice that had a power plug. Unfortunately I didn't have a extra cable for the inline box, so just used the peice with the plug.
Before I would get a pixel and freezing pic with delays. The rest of the game I had no issues.
I don't think it's gonna work very well but helped me in a pinch.

I'm gonna try a better powered booster next.

After that, it's replacement roof antenna time. It's just I don't currently use it that much and would like to spend the $$ elsewhere

[Todd 423]

Intersting on antenna.
My name tis also Todd and I have a Raptor 423 with same inadequate antenna reception. If you get any ideas i would appreciate any advise you can give me. I contacted Keystone, they just said contact Lippert. Lippert said antennae is best they have available with nothing better available.
Maybe a chat with Winnegard would help. Good luck to us. [email protected]
I had a King directional on my old trailer and it worked great. My buddy is parked right next to me and has a King directional and he is able to get several more channels than I can in my new Raptor with the Furrion omni-directional that came OEM on the RV. The problem with installing a new antenna is that the FM and I believe Wifi and bluetooth use the OEM antenna as well as the OTA TV

[roadglide]

I'm thinking about bolting a light weight aluminium ring onto each end of my 360 omni low profile 55 mile range antenna. I dont know if its worth the troubles.

[sonofcy]

I had a King directional on my old trailer and it worked great. My buddy is parked right next to me and has a King directional and he is able to get several more channels than I can in my new Raptor with the Furrion omni-directional that came OEM on the RV. The problem with installing a new antenna is that the FM and I believe Wifi and bluetooth use the OEM antenna as well as the OTA TV

WiFi and Bluetooth do not use that antenna. Think about it, you have both those antennas in your phone. Antenna size is related to frequency and the TV freq's are in the .5 GHz range while Bluetooth is 2.45 GHz and WiFi is from about 1 to 6 plus 60 GHz. Antenna size is proportional.

[jim1]

Maybe you should wait until your fabulous (junk) Furrion omni directional antenna blows off the roof of your trailer and Keystone tells you it's not covered by warranty because nobody else is having issues with them! Then you can go out and get something better to cover the hole in your roof.

[Todd 423]

Maybe you should wait until your fabulous (junk) Furrion omni directional antenna blows off the roof of your trailer and Keystone tells you it's not covered by warranty because nobody else is having issues with them! Then you can go out and get something better to cover the hole in your roof.
So if I add a King directional, can I unhook the coax from the OEM antenna and attach it to the King? Where do I put the amplifier for the King, or can I use the factory installed Key system?

[roadglide]

Maybe you should wait until your fabulous (junk) Furrion omni directional antenna blows off the roof of your trailer and Keystone tells you it's not covered by warranty because nobody else is having issues with them! Then you can go out and get something better to cover the hole in your roof.
There not junk they do work just not as good as some antenna. I would like to have factory installed crank up antenna. There isn't much information about replacement of the 360 omni low profile antenna. Im assuming yours was made in canida on Wednesday and you're very happy with the reception.

[jim1]

No smart a__ mine was made and supplied in the U.S. on a brand new Keystone Cougar, the problem is they have a tendency to blow off while driving down the road

[sonofcy]

There not junk they do work just not as good as some antenna. I would like to have factory installed crank up antenna. There isn't much information about replacement of the 360 omni low profile antenna. Im assuming yours was made in canida on Wednesday and you're very happy with the reception.

Canida????? Sorry, all made in the USA.
I assume the first word was supposed to be 'They are'

[sonofcy]

I'm thinking about bolting a light weight aluminium ring onto each end of my 360 omni low profile 55 mile range antenna. I dont know if its worth the troubles.
My antenna theory is a little rusty, how and why do the aluminum rings work?

[LHaven]

My antenna theory is a little rusty, how and why do the aluminum rings work?

You have to write "Pringles" on them, or they don't work. :hornets:

[sonofcy]

You have to write "Pringles" on them, or they don't work. :hornets:

Sounds similar to back in the early fifties when we had rabbit ear antennas for the TV, wrapped some aluminium foil around them and it did help.

[ChuckS]

Fusion specs... too much wide band crap crammed into this antenna...

https://cdn.accentuate.io/1906137038937/5237057388633/MS-FAN73B7C-V1.11.pdf

This is a better Omni antenna...

https://kingconnect.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/05/22621-Rev-C-OmniPro-Installation-and-Operating-Instructions-04-10-17-COMPRESSED.pdf

This is what I’d be using... directional and rotatable.

https://kingconnect.com/product/king-jack-antenna/

[flybouy]

Pretty simple really, at least the way I understand antennas. An "omni directional" without an amplifier will have zero db gain as the signal will be relatively equal in all directions. A "directional" antenna will have an inherent gain in one direction, sometimes two directions (180 deg apart).

If the antenna cannot "pick up" the signal than the amplifier will amplify nothing. (simple math, 2db gain times zero = zero.)

[LHaven]

That's technically true but ignores the way the industry uses the term Omnidirectional. That really means it broadcasts/receives 360° in a generally flat plate, as opposed to a globular pattern. The power that it doesn't waste in the up and down directions is extra gain for that antenna. A common gain for an Omnidirectional antenna is 7dB.

[ChuckS]

The directional antenna will.. in most cases out perform any Omni directional antenna on the market.. both are “active” antennas with preamps.. they are turned to cover a wide band of VHF/UHF spectrum...

With a directional antenna such as the King Jack, or even older directional Winegards the selectivity is always gonna be better than any Omni directional antenna ever built.

Being able to rotate the antenna and direct the “gain” of the antenna more or less at the “line of sight” direction will result in a much stronger received signal within the passband of the active amplifier

YMMV

[flybouy]

That's technically true but ignores the way the industry uses the term Omnidirectional. That really means it broadcasts/receives 360° in a generally flat plate, as opposed to a globular pattern. The power that it doesn't waste in the up and down directions is extra gain for that antenna. A common gain for an Omnidirectional antenna is 7dB.

By definition:

https://www.sciencedirect.com › topics › computer-science › omnidirectional...
Antenna gain is the same during receive and transmit modes. For example, if antenna gain is +3 dBi in the direction that the signal is received, the received signal power is 3 dB stronger compared to an omnidirectional antenna.

[LHaven]

Right. That's another classic difference between science and engineering ("industry"). Science considers an "omnidirectional" antenna to be a point source radiating in all directions (isotropic) (https://www.tutorialspoint.com/antenna_theory/antenna_theory_isotropic_radiation.htm). Industry realizes that an antenna with that radiation pattern has next to zero practical use, so they use the same term to mean that it merely radiates in all compass directions (https://www.mpantenna.com/omnidirectional-antenna-radiation-patterns-of-different-antenna-designs/). It's the reduction (redirection) of the power otherwise wasted in vertical signal that produces the antenna's gain.

[flybouy]

Right. That's another classic difference between science and engineering ("industry"). Science considers an "omnidirectional" antenna to be a point source radiating in all directions (isotropic) (https://www.tutorialspoint.com/antenna_theory/antenna_theory_isotropic_radiation.htm). Industry realizes that an antenna with that radiation pattern has next to zero practical use, so they use the same term to mean that it merely radiates in all compass directions (https://www.mpantenna.com/omnidirectional-antenna-radiation-patterns-of-different-antenna-designs/). It's the reduction (redirection) of the power otherwise wasted in vertical signal that produces the antenna's gain.

I was taught that engineering is a science. Can you tell me your source for the 7 dB gain for the omni directional antenna that you cited earlier? I was referencing the antenna itself, being non amplified and not an antenna/amplifier package.

[LHaven]

Sure (http://www.l-com.com/content/Article.aspx?Type=N&ID=10213). Here's another (https://www.amazon.com/Hawking-HAI7SIP-HiGain-Directional-Antenna/dp/B000AD4JEA) very common 7dB omni.

Note that I wasn't implying that a common gain for an omnidirectional TV antenna is 7dB, only that the phrases "gain" and "omnidirectional" (as the latter term is used by broadcast engineers and marketers) are not mutually exclusive.

(Trust me, engineering is science leavened with a heaping helping of art (https://www.quora.com/Does-knowledge-limit-creativity/answer/Stan-Hanks).)

[flybouy]

Sure (http://www.l-com.com/content/Article.aspx?Type=N&ID=10213). Here's another (https://www.amazon.com/Hawking-HAI7SIP-HiGain-Directional-Antenna/dp/B000AD4JEA) very common 7dB omni.

Note that I wasn't implying that a common gain for an omnidirectional TV antenna is 7dB, only that the phrases "gain" and "omnidirectional" (as the latter term is used by broadcast engineers and marketers) are not mutually exclusive.

(Trust me, engineering is science leavened with a heaping helping of art (https://www.quora.com/Does-knowledge-limit-creativity/answer/Stan-Hanks).)

I'm not trying to split hairs just get a clear understanding. Thank you for the 2 references for the wifi antennas that broadcast and receive and the gains are dbi which is loosely equivalent to db. The referencing gains by "The compression of the vertical signal" is relative to the broadcasting of the signal. This discussion was about a television antenna that receives signals only. Think about this, what is the 7 dbi gain referencing? Gain over what? Oh, the gain is over a "no loss omni directional antenna" which is theoretical and far beyond this discussion.

The entire point is that a directional television antenna will provide a better signal than an omnidirectional one. I don't think we need to expand this into theorems and doctoral dissertations to prove anyone's knowledge as I'm pretty sure the folks reading this could care less.

[LHaven]

No, no, I absolutely agree with this. I think my new rig's newfangled omni is an abomination, given the channels I can no longer obtain from its customary parking spot (which is unfortunately directly behind my house from the broadcast city), compared to the old-fashioned wing antenna on my old rig, which could get everything my house antenna gets. I'd consider replacing it if weren't located such that the indoor crank would materialize inside a wall.

As you wrote earlier, "Antenna gain is the same during receive and transmit modes." An antenna with 10dBi transmit gain (which of course isn't an RV function, but you can measure the antenna that way to characterize it) will have the corresponding receive advantage. This is precisely why the directional RV antennas are better at fetching signal than the omnis in fringe situations.

I think one of the links I sourced observed that 20dBi was a typical "high gain" directional antenna spec. This gives you a factor of 100x gain in broadcast power or receive sensitivity, compared to only a 5x factor for a typical 7dBi omni. Now, Winegards probably won't approach that, but what looks like even a minor additional increase in dBi can give you a serious performance multiple.

I admire the manufacturers' enthusiasm to provide newbies with an antenna that you no longer have to aim before you can watch any TV, but given that more RVing is done in the back of beyond than in metropolitan areas, I think they made a seriously bad tradeoff.

[chuckster57]

Maybe the wineguard “RAZR” is an option?

[LHaven]

That looks like a pretty responsive product.

Personally, I'm not sure I watch $400 worth of TV on the road. :dizzy:

The other issue is that unlike my old $90 manual Winegard, which cleared every other obstruction on my roof when deployed, this unit looks like it would be seriously inconvenienced by its designated location immediately behind my air conditioner. :facepalm:

[chuckster57]

They are standard equipment on the pleasureway Class B’s. Sit close to the AC and seem to do very well.

[ChuckS]

The OP has asked about the Furion Omni and isn’t getting as many received channels.. the Furion is a wide banded active antenna with a 17 dB preamp.. so their website states..

It is also a multi band including LTE cell phone frequency range...

Hs current antenna will not ever be as good as any directional antenna currently available


The Rayzor automatic antenna is an automatic directional antenna that would also work much better then his current Furion...

Being able to AIM the forward to backward gain of an antenna will always result in better received signal within the passband of the receiver, preamp, and antenna

OP.. if you want better OTA TV reception yank the junk Furion off and put either a directional gain RV antenna and you will be happy..

If you want LTE then buy a dedicated LTE antenna and you’ll have better results for your cell receive