Another soft bullet floor

[08quadram]

This forum sure is a godsend. After reading another post about rusty screws on the threshold trim of the doors and soft floor of another member's Bullet and soft floors I decided to go out and investigate mine about a month ago. Sure enough, the screws on both the front and rear door were Rusty. Seem to be the screw closest to the hinge side of the door. A little prodding around with my finger found what I thought was a soft spot just to the front of the bedroom door Which is about 2 inches from the hinge side. Since I had to take the trailer in for some other warranty service I had him check it out. He said it's definitely soft. It's also not the first one he's seen. They are a relatively small dealership and he seen three or four. This was the smallest soft spot he has seen. I told him that's because i was reading this forum and ran across another thread with similar issues. He will be in contact with Keystone to see what they say. He said worst case is the trailer will go back to the factory for repair. Hopefully I'll know something in a couple weeks. We've owned this trailer since the end of June. 3 months.

[skids]

That makes me think about ours, 248RKS. It is hard not to use the threshold as a top step. I try to avoid it because the threshold does not seem to be as firm as it should be - as if it rocks ever so slightly. The linoleum is also not glued down in that 2 x 2 ft (?) area and I wonder now if the glues was affected by water penetration. The floor does seen to be solid...

[08quadram]

Pull the three screws that hold that threshold on and see if they have Rusty threads.

[JRTJH]

That makes me think about ours, 248RKS. It is hard not to use the threshold as a top step. I try to avoid it because the threshold does not seem to be as firm as it should be - as if it rocks ever so slightly. The linoleum is also not glued down in that 2 x 2 ft (?) area and I wonder now if the glues was affected by water penetration. The floor does seen to be solid...

Typically, vinyl flooring is not glued down. When the trailer is built, the vinyl flooring and carpet are placed where they should be in the trailer and the flooring is stapled around the perimeter. Then the floor mounted cabinets, interior walls, shower and large "furniture items" such as the bed bases are installed. Finally, the sidewalls are screwed to the floor (which completes the vinyl and carpet installation). I've been told by several "people in the know" that flooring is not glued in place so any twisting, pulling and/or stretching will not tear the flooring. Years ago, there were some pretty significant issues with cracked vinyl flooring. Part of that was blamed on "inferior vinyl that could not remain pliable when extremely cold and partly blamed on expansion/contraction of the floor under the vinyl which was glued in place and split when expansion occurred.

Current trailers, if any adhesive is used in flooring, is only around the perimeter. The majority of the flooring "floats" over the subfloor.

[skids]

Thanks John. I feel better already, although I feel strange when I step on that threshold.

[JRTJH]

My threshold "rocks" when I step on it. I also try not to use it as a step. My thought is that it's the only thing securing the bottom of a "too weak and flimsy" door and I don't want to break the welds in the corners of the door frame. It's not a big deal if I do break one, just a hassle taking the entire door out, welding the threshold back in place and reinstalling/resealing the door. To me, better to just avoid stepping on it LOL

As for the "weak floor" Mine is 1/4" luan-1.5" Styrofoam-1/8" luan laminated sandwich. I don't have any soft spots that I'm aware of, but I do have some areas where the entire floor "sinks" if you step on it "just right"... At least mine has a conventional frame under it (2 I beams with steel crossmembers) The Bullet is built with a Norco "uni-body" preformed and interlocking frame. It's substantially different from the "tried and true" frames that have been used for 60+ years in RV's. Like the "sandwich floor" I wonder what issues we'll find after that type frame has been in use for 10 years ????

It's the "nature of the beast" with ultra-light construction and not a darn thing any of us can do about it except "rebuild it with 5/8" marine plywood when it finally fails... That said, rebuilding it that way will only move the "next weakest link" to the next area to fail.... So...... make the most of what you've got, enjoy the memories you're making and let the trailer "do its thing" for as long as it'll keep you warm and dry.....

[danf]

According to my dealer, the factory does not repair floors on these. They can't without literally taking the entire trailer apart. Easier for them to just build a new one.

IMO, the floors are already starting to rot by the time the trailer gets to the dealer. Rain will bounce off the step to underneath the door where it will seep into the floor. This will be accelerated in wheel wells where you get road splash.

You should feel the floor under the doors and in the wheel wells along the entire length of the trailer. If the floor feels wavy and/or soft, the bottom layer of the "floor sandwich" has detached itself. It won't take hardly any water for this to happen because the top and bottom layers of the sandwich are literally a shoebox cardboard coated luan type of board. Once that cardboard gets wet, it disintegrates. It's like leaving a shoebox or cereal box out in the rain. With the trailer flexing when you tow it, the layer completely separates.

The vinyl is not glued down. It's layed on top of the floor sandwich and then the walls, cabinets, dinette, etc are screwed onto the floor. There should be no bubbles in it. It should be tight and lay flat everywhere in the trailer. If it's bubbled by the door (or really anywhere), then there is likely water damage under it.

The screws that hold down the threshold only penetrate the top layer of the floor sandwich. They are not screwed into anything of substance. Those threads will strip out especially If you keep walking on it. Water can leak into the floor from those screws although I think that is a minor source compared to the way the floor is built. They don't use any caulking for any screws that go into the floor. So, threshold, dinette, bed frame, etc.

[08quadram]

This is what my dealer found after dropping it off. They have turned it into Keystone, so we will see what they say. A 3-month-old camper should not have this problem. :banghead:

"Rear entry door threshold is not fully scaled in the corners. Water weeps out at times, over the edge if it starts to build up and not drain fast enough out the bottom of the door. The front entry door is not leaking water, the front cargo door and the exterior floor line moulding is leaking. The flooring is excessively water damaged in cargo area. The off door side cargo door leaks also, which is where the major floor damage is. Removed all the customers items out of cargo area and found the vinyl stained and the soft flooring a on the off door side. Found that the off door side bedroom window is not set right either. The front edge of the window, you can see the seal but the back edge is completely compressed into the sidewall of the unit, not making a seal around the edge. Vinyl flooring, trim, and under liniment in cargo area is completely damaged and will need replaced. Mold is forming in flooring as well."

[danf]

Thanks for the update.


I wonder when it was built. They can sit on the lot for quite a while. I bet if you went on a dealer's lot, you could find most of these with water problems.



I would assume they peeled back the vinyl. You might want to get some photos if you can just so you have some on hand if you have to talk to keystone.



If the cargo area is showing water damage in the top floor layer, the bottom layer will have water damage radiating much farther out. That's what I found with mine. So a fix replacing just top layer damage isn't a fix. IMO with the mold, the only fix is a new unit.


Let us know what happens. Good luck.

[08quadram]

I have already broached that subject with the service rep at the dealer. He just turned the it into Keystone this morning. We'll see what they have to say in a couple of days.

[08quadram]

Slight update. I replied to another poster on the keystone Facebook page yesterday relaying my issues in an impartial manner. I was contacted by Keystone rep within an hour and today contacted by a Retail Advisor. They will be in touch with my dealer. We shall see.

[German Shepherd Guy]

Sounds positive Keep us informed.

[duh1]

Yea, keep us informed. Curious about keystones response

[FBO Cookie Monster]

I know when we finally find “the one”, it most definitely will not have laminated floors but 5/8 tongue and groove floors.

[dblcan10]

I posted this under "Repairs and Maintenance" on 09-17-2019

"Floor Becoming soft near entry"

My 2018 Bullet 269rls develop 3 roof leaks and the dealer came out and "Repaired "them". Since the wallpaper wrinkled in the bedroom an rear living area, they asked me to get the unit in for warranty work NLT 13 Sep. When I showed the assistant Service Manager the soft spot near my rear door, he told me the floor was rotting out. A half hour in the camper with him discovered another spot in the kitchen, one at the front door, the whole front compartment floor, delaminating of the front fiberglass cap and roof staples working their way out. All this on a camper that was used 3 times, picked it up in May. The A/M told that this job is beyond their capability and would start negotiating with Keystone. I told hem that somebody is going to make this right and it's not coming out of my pocket. Wish me luck

danf....Thank you for the 411.

This is my update.

After taking my Bullet back to the dealer, shortly after my post, they inspected it and said that they wold notify Keystone. After a couple of weeks of silence, I called Keystone myself. They told me that had received info from the dealer and also apologized for the delay of info due to being a few weeks behind in processing claims. I received my first call on 10/08/19 requesting my permission for my Bullet to go back to Indiana. I received a second call for confirmation that my camper would around 11/04/19 plus an email with said confirmation. I was up in Maine hunting last week and got home today and found this thread. I'm going to call the dealer to verify the camper was picked up and then a call out to Keystone to verify it's in their hands.

So 08QUADRAM (Mike), give Keystone a call and if you have to be a Pain in the ***. Hold your ground with your dealer.

I'll update ASAP

Steve

[FishTx]

Is this a common problem with bullet series? I’ve got a 2018 bullet premier

[k94x4]

I posted this under "Repairs and Maintenance" on 09-17-2019

"Floor Becoming soft near entry"

My 2018 Bullet 269rls develop 3 roof leaks and the dealer came out and "Repaired "them". Since the wallpaper wrinkled in the bedroom an rear living area, they asked me to get the unit in for warranty work NLT 13 Sep. When I showed the assistant Service Manager the soft spot near my rear door, he told me the floor was rotting out. A half hour in the camper with him discovered another spot in the kitchen, one at the front door, the whole front compartment floor, delaminating of the front fiberglass cap and roof staples working their way out. All this on a camper that was used 3 times, picked it up in May. The A/M told that this job is beyond their capability and would start negotiating with Keystone. I told hem that somebody is going to make this right and it's not coming out of my pocket. Wish me luck

danf....Thank you for the 411.

This is my update.

After taking my Bullet back to the dealer, shortly after my post, they inspected it and said that they wold notify Keystone. After a couple of weeks of silence, I called Keystone myself. They told me that had received info from the dealer and also apologized for the delay of info due to being a few weeks behind in processing claims. I received my first call on 10/08/19 requesting my permission for my Bullet to go back to Indiana. I received a second call for confirmation that my camper would around 11/04/19 plus an email with said confirmation. I was up in Maine hunting last week and got home today and found this thread. I'm going to call the dealer to verify the camper was picked up and then a call out to Keystone to verify it's in their hands.

So 08QUADRAM (Mike), give Keystone a call and if you have to be a Pain in the ***. Hold your ground with your dealer.

I'll update ASAP

Steve

Anything new Steve?

[JRTJH]

Is this a common problem with bullet series? I’ve got a 2018 bullet premier

I wouldn't say it's a "common" problem. Considering the number of bullet trailers that are built and the number that we hear about with floor problems, it's not "common" but it is "frequent enough not to ignore"...

Watch your floor, stay on top of any and ALL leaks, sweating around the doors and windows, any damp spots on the carpet, etc. Monitor your wheelwells carefully, and inspect your roof frequently.

[German Shepherd Guy]

So John had posted earlier on another thread about soft floors that he had lined his wheel wells to account for road damage. He included pictures. That inspired me and I went to my local Home Depot and found some really interesting sheets of a rubber material in the section of interior paneling. Looks perfect for the job. Rubber, 1/8" thick, I think I can attach with construction adhesives and then screws sealed off with caulk.
The sheet is 4' X 8' so will have some left over and was not too expensive. I believe around the $30 mark.

So have all the stuff now for a great project, to hopefully help against water damage/soft floors in my future.

[sourdough]

I have not responded to this thread because my situation didn't really apply but it does/did apply to "soft floor" so I'll make a comment.

Talking about the soft floor problem, we had/have that as well. Just before DW started noticing the soft floor we noticed a slow leak coming out of the coroplast under the trailer about midway thru a screw hole. Kept trying to identify what was going on and finally determined that the leak appeared when the galley grey tank was full. Started dumping it more frequently but we then had a soft floor right in front of the entry door (on top of the tank). Long story short we took it in and the initially assessed that it was cracked on top and would require replacement. After it was removed they found that during the construction of the unit someone had left several self tapping screws on top of the tank then secured the tank to the trailer mashing the screws into the top of the tank. Over time going down the highway the screws had worn holes in the top of the tank causing the leak(s). The tank is replaced and the service manager said the floor was good....but we do have a bit of a soft floor to this day. Just a bit of info about an off the wall cause for something like that.

[JRTJH]

I'm going to go "way out on a limb" here and make some comments that I can't "prove to be fact" but rather, "are based on previous experience"....

Those who are old enough will remember when "plastic dash panels" first replaced steel dash panels in cars (around the mid 60's). How many of us remember those soft dash tops that cracked "almost as soon as the warranty expired" ???? If you look at any auto parts internet site, you can still buy "fuzzy dash blankets" to cover those dash panels to "prevent the sun from damaging them".... Since, the industry "improved the plastic formula" and cracking is less a problem in today's cars....

Now, let's move to the "mid 70's/early 80's" when "all cars could be ordered with an optional "vinyl top"... It really did nothing for the car's function, it was "just for eye appeal"... GM called it the "Landau package" and all the other manufacturers had their "pet names for that upgrade".... Again, the vinyl lasted "almost as long as the warranty".... Most of us that owned a car with a vinyl top still have a bottle of "some kind of junk" that we applied to try to keep it from cracking and disintegrating.... That's where Armor-All got its start BTW....

Now, apply this "try new stuff, find out it has problems, refine the process, evolve to different techniques and STOP USING THE FIRST EMULATION".....

I think (look back at the first sentence in this post) that the RV industry, in their "zeal to deliver what we want" started using DARCO.

This is the way I remember the evolution:

1. Wheelwells were lined with zinc coated steel sheets (tin)
2. That changed to spray on tar/bed liner
3. That changed to a plastic liner (similar to a truck bed liner)
4. That changed to an aluminum underbelly pan with aluminum wheelwell liners.
5. That changed to plastic sheeting (similar to a thick painter's drop cloth) stapled to the bottom of the trailer
6. That changed to DACOR underliner and is still used on some entry level trailers and in most wheelwells.
7. That changed to COROPLAST underliner and DACOR wheelwell liners...

At the same time, the flooring that used to be 1" marine plywood changed to 7/8" plywood, changed to 5/8" OSB/strand changed to "sandwich" flooring that was first 1/2" top layer of strand, 2"foam and 1/4" bottom strand, that is now either 1/4" top layer (or 2 layers of 1/8" luan), 1.5" foam and a 1/8" bottom layer, wrapped with DARCO to prevent water from rotting the structure....

Tow the "new and improved" floor over a gravel road and it doesn't take long to "fill the DARCO with pin-prick holes that will "wick water" the next time you tow during the rain.....

I see our future having more "evolution" and I'd suspect that as the industry gains "knowledge and experience" with current technology failures, we'll see different materials and different techniques as "trailer manufacturing evolves".... We can see that in the roof material too. First was a "tin roof" followed by a fiberglass or aluminum roof, followed by EPDM and now TPO (lighter than EPDM with the same characteristics)....

We ain't at the end of the line, but just like those plastic dashes and vinyl roofs, you don't see them on today's cars and I'd suspect you won't find DARCO wheelwells on "tomorrow's RV".....

In the meantime, buyers have a choice. Delay purchasing an RV "until they're perfect" or buy one today, deal with the growing pains and make memories (which are going to include costs to repair and replace things that break)...

Again, just my thoughts for what they're worth......

[Fergie]

I have a 33ft. Passport ultra lite and it is definitely the flimsiest light weight I have ever owned. Roof and floor very soft. When you compare cost to other manufacturers, you would think Keystone would do a better job?

[JRTJH]

I have a 33ft. Passport ultra lite and it is definitely the flimsiest light weight I have ever owned. Roof and floor very soft. When you compare cost to other manufacturers, you would think Keystone would do a better job?

I'm not defending Keystone, heaven knows they build some "junk", but most are "industry competitive trailers at industry competitive prices".

When you compare a 5 year old trailer to a current model, there is a "flimsy feel" that goes along with that 600+ pound weight reduction off the older model. Current trailers do "feel lighter" than older trailers. That's because they are lighter.

All the "ultra-lite" trailers that I've walked inside of for the past 3 or 4 years seem to be "about the same in design and material use". I haven't walked into any brand 30'+ ultra-lite trailer that didn't feel "flimsy and bend in the middle or at both ends"....

I haven't seen that Keystone is much different than GD, Jayco, Winnebago, Forest River or any others. About the only difference that I see between any of the manufacturers is that they all "put the lipstick on the pig in different places"... Otherwise, they're all "the same pig underneath".... All are built with the same Lippert or NOCO frame, same tires (Jayco used all Endurance for 2 years, new models have some "different brands") all use the same appliances, same brand luan wallboard, some TPO roofing, same staples and adhesive, same workers (they move from plant to plant as they get laid off, fired or angry) and the same "cost constraints/engineering criteria/time to build model"

Comparing cost, GD is about $5K more, FR, Jayco about the same price, Winnebago is closer to GD than to Keystone in price structure... Keystone is among the cheapest in each "class offered".

Whether one brand is a "better value" than another brand???? Well, beauty lies in the eye of the beholder...

[danf]

Is this a common problem with bullet series? I\u2019ve got a 2018 bullet premier

It's common. Other makes/models might have the same problem, but it's a common problem with Bullets. They didn't use butyl tape or caulking in the screws that screw on the apron. The Darco doesn't protect the underside of the floor. The darco also develops holes over the trailer frame where it is pinched between the frame and the trailer floor. There is no caulking there to keep dirt and water out. I would assume that Bullets in Arizona and places where it doesn't rain much may never see the problem. If you don't tow in rain, you may get away with not seeing the problem as long as you own your Bullet. But, I'd put money on almost all Bullets in wet places and towed in rain having bad floors or at least the start of developing a bad floor.

Knowing what I know now, if a new bullet dropped in my lap, I would caulk the apron and threshold screws. I would caulk underneath along where the floor is in contact with the frame rail. I would coat the bottom of the floor all along the wheel well area from the front of the camper to the rear of the camper with bed liner, undercoat, or similar. And then I would build inner wheel wells to keep spray of the floor.

[08quadram]

Heard from my dealer today. I said keystone told them they didn't need to do any more work on it ( I'm assuming investigations). They would take it from here. Who knows, hopefully I won't have to pressure too much for a replacement unit.

[danf]

Heard from my dealer today. I said keystone told them they didn't need to do any more work on it ( I'm assuming investigations). They would take it from here. Who knows, hopefully I won't have to pressure too much for a replacement unit.


Any news? Did they haul it off to the factory?

[08quadram]

Based on my last conversation with Keystone, it will be replaced with a new unit.

[skids]

Based on my last conversation with Keystone, it will be replaced with a new unit.

It will be interesting to know if you end up with the same exact design or if it is provided with more fender well protection.

[08quadram]

It should be the new 291RLS. I haven't heard anything for 3 weeks now other than our intial phone converstation.

[Mcshoe]

I am in the market for a bullet 210 rudwe..Where in the trailer should I be looking for soft spots. Thanks

[JRTJH]

I am in the market for a bullet 210 rudwe..Where in the trailer should I be looking for soft spots. Thanks


You probably won't find "soft spots" in a new trailer, either from water intrusion or from construction issues. Typically, it takes a year or more for most water damage to "become visible on the surface" until then, you probably won't see any indications of damage....

As for "construction soft spots", typically the main ones seen are the floor directly above any heat ducts molded into the "sandwich floor construction" and/or "wobbly kitchen island attachments" or similar types of "weakness"...

As with any construction material, as it's used it becomes worn and loses some of its rigidity/strength. When it comes to the floor over the heat ducting, it will "seem strong enough" when new, and as the trailer is used, walking on that area will flex the wood, potentially break down the underlying Styrofoam and after that happens, you'll start to notice the floor flex above that area. It's not a "reliability issue" as much as a "construction inadequacy". Will it break when you step on it? Probably not. Will it break if you "stomp on it"?? Probably...

The kitchen island, if you push against it repeatedly, if kids "run rough-shod around it, using it to make faster corners, expect it to loosen from the floor attachments or pull them out, causing a "perceived weakness"...

Another "typical weakness" is kids jumping from the top bunk onto the floor. It really doesn't take much weight, 40-50 pounds from 4' up, jumping onto the floor in the same spot, even with kids size 1 shoes, will weaken the adhesive between the plies in the luan panels or weaken the OSB wafers from their adhesive. That's not a Keystone problem, but an issue related to "ultra-light construction materials" that's found in every RV that uses that construction technique.

I'd suggest that you shouldn't be "afraid of buying a Keystone" if those are your concerns, you'll find that nearly every RV constructed by any manufacturer that's in the same class and the same weight category will very likely be built almost "exactly" the same way.

[Mcshoe]

What about soft spots in a new 2018 that’s been setting in a dealers yard in the mid west.

[JRTJH]

What about soft spots in a new 2018 that’s been setting in a dealers yard in the mid west.

Generally speaking, if it's been sitting on a dealer's lot, chances are it hasn't been towed, lived in, walked in or exposed to condensation that is found in "trailers that are in use", so it should be "in new condition except for the tens, hundreds, thousands of people walking through it. Then of course, it could have been towed several thousand miles to RV shows, inside one weekend, outside in the slush with people tracking ice and water into it the next weekend. It may have even been a "parts donor trailer" having parts "robbed" to fix other trailers, then put back together, only to have something else taken off and replaced when the parts came in later. It's hard to know what any trailer has been exposed to, so if you are wanting specifics about a particular trailer? Nobody will be able to tell you what you'll find unless they have personal knowledge about that specific trailer.

I'd suspect that if it's a 2018 that's never been titled or owned, then I'd consider it much the same as any 2018 "used" trailer with the exception that it'll come with a 12 month Keystone warranty which other "truly used" RV's won't have.... Otherwise, who knows what it's been subjected to while "sitting" on the dealer's lot. I'm not suggesting it's a good trailer or a bad trailer, I'm suggesting that if it's been sitting on a dealership lot for 2 or 3 years, who knows what condition it might be in. I've seen units that sat on a lot for 3 months and were "new, untitled junk" that has been trashed by vandalism and I've seen "new units that sat on a dealership lot for 3 years and were as good as the day they left the factory".... It's impossible to say what problems that specific trailer may or may not have.

[08quadram]

I am in the market for a bullet 210 rudwe..Where in the trailer should I be looking for soft spots. ThanksMine was 4 months old. I am quite sure based on the many places that the water entered, it was already rotting sitting on the lot. It had nothing to do with pulling it down the road.....and I ever only pulled it in the rain once, the day I brought it home.

The slam latch design and the fact that they didn't use butyl tape behind the shirt trim screws. Design flaw there. Otherwise mine had installation of window and door issue.

In my case Keystone has stepped up, rectified the issue and I will be a happy camper.

[skids]

John, We bought our 2019 Bullet 248rks from Camping World in Colorado Springs in November. I towed it home and looked on the roof for conditions of sealant lines, etc. It was obvious to me that there was a couple of fresher Dicor calk lines on the roof. There were some spots that were whiter. At first, I was thinking that maybe I bought a trailer that was returned, but then I was thinking that maybe Camping World did an inspection early 2019 (if the trailer was produced at the end of 2018 as a 2019) and took care of a couple of problems. Truely I am OK with that!

[JRTJH]

John, We bought our 2019 Bullet 248rks from Camping World in Colorado Springs in November. I towed it home and looked on the roof for conditions of sealant lines, etc. It was obvious to me that there was a couple of fresher Dicor calk lines on the roof. There were some spots that were whiter. At first, I was thinking that maybe I bought a trailer that was returned, but then I was thinking that maybe Camping World did an inspection early 2019 (if the trailer was produced at the end of 2018 as a 2019) and took care of a couple of problems. Truely I am OK with that!

This is my opinion, obviously I can't speak for any dealership, anywhere, not even the one I use which is about 40 miles away....

Anyway, IMHO, any dealer "should" be proactive and do the maintenance requirements that are in the Owner's Manual and required by anyone "owning" a Keystone trailer. That means "quarterly or so" getting on the roof, checking the sealant, doing a once over of the exterior: windows, doors, hatch covers, molding, screw strip cover, light assemblies and other attachments for sealant voids and signs of problems.

Do dealers accomplish what the factory tells us that we've got to do on a regular basis???? My guess is the answer is "NO" … At most dealerships, I'd suspect the trailers get delivered from the factory and the first time they see any maintenance (other than the cleaning lady) is when they're sold to a buyer and the service department does the PDI....

It sounds like your dealership is an exception to the "no maintenance until sold" rule..... Good for them !!!

[Gegrad]

Do dealers accomplish what the factory tells us that we've got to do on a regular basis???? My guess is the answer is "NO" … At most dealerships, I'd suspect the trailers get delivered from the factory and the first time they see any maintenance (other than the cleaning lady) is when they're sold to a buyer and the service department does the PDI....




I am going to suggest you can count on 2-3 hands the sum total of dealers in the whole US (excluding maybe the sells of the super high end models like Lance, Arctic Fox, Airstream, etc) who do any maintenance of any kind to their lot trailers before PDI.

[JRTJH]

I am going to suggest you can count on 2-3 hands the sum total of dealers in the whole US (excluding maybe the sells of the super high end models like Lance, Arctic Fox, Airstream, etc) who do any maintenance of any kind to their lot trailers before PDI.

My guess is with one hand behind your back, you'd still have left over fingers....

[6.2 Superduty]

Today I received a call from Keystone my 2018 Bullet 269rls is going back to the factory for a wet floor. My dealer sent two back a few weeks ago. My evaluation of the damage is in two weeks. I understand they now have a floor replacement facility at the plant. Many have posted they have been told the process takes eight to ten weeks once they start. I have not heard of anyone e getting their trailer back from the factory

[JRTJH]

6.2 superduty,

Is your trailer going back to the factory in Goshen or in Oregon? There have been several members state their trailers have been sent to the plant in Oregon, many more than I've read about going to Goshen. It seems that in the past, returning a trailer to Goshen was an "almost unheard of event." Maybe that's changing ??? I'm surprised and very pleased to see Keystone "stepping up the repairs" and dedicating a facility to "floor repair". It sure sounds like there's a much bigger issue than is being reported on this forum, if they're dedicating an entire workforce just for floors.

I've long been concerned that the "sandwiched floor" is not durable enough for travel trailer use. Maybe that's becoming a realization at Keystone as well. I'm sure there will be lots and LOTS more to evolve from this kind of situation. It's good to see Keystone actively working toward repairing owners trailers.

[6.2 Superduty]

I read they are now using a waterproof floor material rather than cardboard. I believe many more of these trailers have wet foors and haven't been discovered yet.
I think the right thing for Keystone to do is replace rather than rebuild

[6.2 Superduty]

To answer your question it is an eastern model made in Indiana.

[skids]

Personally, I would like to see a preventative retrofit for fender liners and maybe something for the door thresholds.

[flybouy]

Personally, I would like to see a preventative retrofit for fender liners and maybe something for the door thresholds.

Sounds like a "cottage industry" opportunity.

[Summergirl]

Hip hip hooray :):):) Got the call this morning that Keystone is going to take the trailer back to factory to put in the new floor.
This will happen in the fall.

Thank you everyone on this forum for helping out by posting their issues, comments etc and my dealer for looking at this.

[6.2 Superduty]

Hip hip hooray :):):) Got the call this morning that Keystone is going to take the trailer back to factory to put in the new floor.
This will happen in the fall.

Thank you everyone on this forum for helping out by posting their issues, comments etc and my dealer for looking at this.
That's good news.My 2018 Bullet came back yesterday with a new floor. Going to the dealer today to inspect it.

[Roose17]

That's good news.My 2018 Bullet came back yesterday with a new floor. Going to the dealer today to inspect it.
Our 2018 Passport is in the pipeline to get it's floor replaced by Keystone. (waiting on the Keystone to schedule the pickup) If you can share your initial impressions of the workmanship, or the whole Keystone process, it would be greatly appreciated.

[k94x4]

Our 2017 Outback 328RLI went to the Oregon factory mid February for a floor replacement. We are awaiting it's return, which has been delayed due to the coronvirus.

[6.2 Superduty]

Our 2018 Passport is in the pipeline to get it's floor replaced by Keystone. (waiting on the Keystone to schedule the pickup) If you can share your initial impressions of the workmanship, or the whole Keystone process, it would be greatly appreciated.

To start with I discovered the problem in December when my 2018 was two years old. I reported the problem to my dealer mid January and Keystone approved repairs late January. It was transported to the Indiana plant mid February. It was back mid april.

The repairs appear to be satisfactory although my dealer will have to correct a few trim problems.

[Roose17]

Thank you for sharing your experience. When our unit is complete I promise to share our experience with the members as well.

[danf]

Mine has been fixed and sitting at the dealership for two months. The dealership is still closed and I really don't know when I'll be able to get it.

[sourdough]

Mine has been fixed and sitting at the dealership for two months. The dealership is still closed and I really don't know when I'll be able to get it.


Is that closing voluntary or mandatory? Just wondering about the directions taken in various places. My RV dealership is open and running about 75% volume per the GM.

[danf]

Mandatory.


Its not really a big deal. Mud season is over now so I avoided dragging it through the mud. I may not even go camping anywhere this year. But it would be nice to have it back.

[Justvisiting2day]

Whew, it has been a while off this page for me. as I am normally way too busy doing other stuff.. But this stick around the house idea has me nutso. So my comment about these cheep dam floors. And the company that puts them together. We have a 2013 Kstone Passport. We had purchased it as a NEW, but demo,, HA HA.
The 10 mile 10 second guarantee was ofcourse gone.
Now the fun part, was supposed to be trail ready. Got 450 miles and parked for the night, The black tank flooded??? Oh and the dang thing had Rob Bic solids in the drain. Clean that out in a gravel parking lot with no running water, oh it went into a county sewer drain. Next we got the idea to yeah take that nice hot shower,,The glass enclosure leaked like a sieve and the floor was soaked, and the drain in the shower was cracked around and leaked out under the trailer. Threw out the glass enclosure and installed a good curtain.

Called the dealer, he says "well it is a used trailer". Then after +$700 for a shower pan, that includes shipping from back east. I had to replace it , as no dealers were available.
Now the floor under the shower is replaced with real wood, and slight wobble at the pot. And the whole kitchen floor wrenches when you walk on it.
Dealers and Keystone , only GET THE MONEY, you fend for your selves.
Good luck put in concrete..

[Summergirl]

Got a call from the Keystone plant in Oregon. Our trailer is going back there July 27 to have the new floor put in. Really hope they do a good job.

[Justvisiting2day]

Got a call from the Keystone plant in Oregon. Our trailer is going back there July 27 to have the new floor put in. Really hope they do a good job.

Holey Cats and jammers.. How did you get them ??? That is great, and at this time of the year. I am pleased to hear that the CO is willing to do this, good for you.:flowers::flowers:
We are hoping to sell ours this year after a trip "if the park is open" to Glacier..
Thanks for your note.

[Summergirl]

Holey Cats and jammers.. How did you get them ??? That is great, and at this time of the year. I am pleased to hear that the CO is willing to do this, good for you.:flowers::flowers:
We are hoping to sell ours this year after a trip "if the park is open" to Glacier..
Thanks for your note.

Took it to the dealer and then waited. After a month I messaged Keystone via fb and got a phone call first from HO customer relations then a few more emails back and forth. Then a call from the plant in Oregon. They were actually really good. I believe that I have a really good dealer that documented it very well. Proof was in the pictures.

Glacier National park is very beautiful. Enjoy.

[Summergirl]

Last update:
Received the trailer back today after 20 weeks of not seeing it.
The floor replacement is great. Looking through out the unit you would never know there was an issue.
When looking closely you can see we’re the wiring has been spliced and water lines. Overall it looks great. The tacked down some trim that wasn’t right from factory as well as replaced the decal in the glass doors that had rubbed.
Overall experience - took them way too long. From the time it was dropped off to return was 20 weeks. No this was not the dealer. Transport arrangements from Canada were horrendous due to COVID-19. Parts coming from the east coast to west coast took forever. The fact the west coast plant isn’t geared for floor replacement as well as natural disasters (forest fires) and COVID did bode for a quick turn around. Originally told 6-8 weeks.
The floor looks great. So far we haven’t been able to test anything out. They did winterized the system including filling the hot water tank with RV anti freeze. Which we have drained and will flush out this week. Will test all appliances this week as well before putting it to bed for the winter. Spring can’t come fast enough.

[Pinellaskat]

We are having a problem with a soft floor by the door and where the slide starts. We had a tire blow last year and Camping World fixed it and we started noticing the floor getting soft right after that. Has anyone tried to fix theirs and if so how did you go about it?

[Summergirl]

We are having a problem with a soft floor by the door and where the slide starts. We had a tire blow last year and Camping World fixed it and we started noticing the floor getting soft right after that. Has anyone tried to fix theirs and if so how did you go about it?

Contact your dealer.
Have them look at it.
Meanwhile contact Keystone Customer Care.
They are really good.

[German Shepherd Guy]

I have written Keystone twice about my 2018 26RBPR floor with no response. Unfortunately my dealer is no longer in the RV trailer business:nonono: As I live in a relatively dry climate I have noticed no problem so far and have a spring time project to line my wheel wells myself as a preventative. (John first turned me on to the idea :cool:)

Would be nice if Keystone could come up with a liner that could be installed after market as it seems this is going to be an ongoing problem for awhile. Go luck to all who are having to deal with it.:ermm: It is a shame as it is such an obvious flaw in design.:facepalm:

[JRTJH]

I agree, "if only Keystone could provide us with an "after the sale retrofit kit"...

But I'd suspect that won't ever happen, primarily for two reasons:

1. It wouldn't be profitable for Keystone
2. It would be "nearly impossible" to build such a "bolt on kit" given the wide variety of wheelwell configurations. Between the outriggers that support the "box structure of the living quarters" to the variability of measurements between models, they'd have to "build a unique kit for nearly every model in the line.

Given that there are so many models in the 17 brand offerings, assuming there were 10 models in each brand, that would mean 170 "retrofit kits" for each year. Even if half would interchange between models and between years, that still would be an "insurmountable inventory of retrofit kits"....

Don't count on that happening. Now, as for "providing the materials so a dealer or a customer could custom fit their model wheelwell area".... Just the shipping of "large size 4x8 sheets" would make the cost so high at the dealership that most people would abandon buying it there and opt for the same or similar materials at Lowe's or Home Depot or a similar building supply store..... The "truck freight charges" is the primary reason why Trekwood.com is so expensive with nearly all of their "unique trailer parts delivery charges".

So, for those reasons, I wouldn't look for any solutions from Keystone except for the few "complete floor rebuilds done at the factory" or "in warranty patch jobs done at the dealership".

Ironically, it's not getting any better, even with the "newest line of luxury trailers from Keystone".... The Acadia models have a waterproof material to replace the DARCO liner in the wheelwells, but because of weight restrictions, that "plastic sheeting" is still not able to withstand a tire blowout or, IMO, survive towing on gravel roads for the lifetime of the trailer.

So, the problem of damaged wheelwells, wet insulation, deterioration of floors will continue, even with the "latest and greatest" from Keystone....

Grandpa used to say, "If you want it done right, do it yourself"....

Since I've been "labeled an old codger" by some, Today Grandpa's advice rings as true as it did, "back when".....

If you have any problems or run into any questions about modifying your wheelwells, just ask. It's not particularly technically challenging to do, just difficult to find the sheets and to cut/fit the panels in place around the outriggers that are present in every wheelwell..

[Shredder]

Hi, how did you make out ? how long were you into your warranty before you claimed the damage? I am just out of my one year and just had my dealer make a claim, awaiting response.

[Summergirl]

Hi, how did you make out ? how long were you into your warranty before you claimed the damage? I am just out of my one year and just had my dealer make a claim, awaiting response.

There is a three year on the floor.

[Summergirl]

I have written Keystone twice about my 2018 26RBPR floor with no response. Unfortunately my dealer is no longer in the RV trailer business:nonono: As I live in a relatively dry climate I have noticed no problem so far and have a spring time project to line my wheel wells myself as a preventative. (John first turned me on to the idea :cool:)

Would be nice if Keystone could come up with a liner that could be installed after market as it seems this is going to be an ongoing problem for awhile. Go luck to all who are having to deal with it.:ermm: It is a shame as it is such an obvious flaw in design.:facepalm:

Who have you written to at Keystone?
Call the customer care and talk to Alisha Howden.
She is well versed on the floor replacement.
Emailing just no one particular will fall on deaf ears as there are so many that have issues. It is not a case of if but rather when…..