Correct Way of Changing Hydraulic fluid?

[OldKingKibitzer]

Looking to change out my Hydraulic fluid for my auto leveling on my Fuzion 310. Anyone have a guide or video? I've searched but not found anything comprehensive. Big questions I have-

-Where should the level be when full/slides in/legs up?
-Should I Use Dexron III or Mercon 5? Does it matter what I had in from factory? How do I tell?
-Should I add fork oil when changing it?
-What's the most efficient way to remove the old fluid?

Any other generic tips/tricks that may help.

[bobbecky]

The latest discussion on changing the fluid is that it’s not necessary. I changed mine years ago when it was still suggested to do. The fluid may be AW32 hydraulic fluid or ATF. I just siphoned the fluid from the reservoir with a clear vinyl hose. I used Dexron fluid going back along with the CAT fluid. The final fluid level should be about an inch below the fill opening with the legs and slides retracted. Some will say to not mix the fluids, but the fluid in mine was amber colored, I guess the AW32, but still went with the ATF and never experienced any problems, and the fluid change was done at least four years ago. I also used jack stands under the frame close to the front jacks so I didn’t have the truck in my way.

[notanlines]

King, if ten people respond then you'll get about eight different methods of removing the fluid. When we changed the fluid in the neighbor's Montana I used a battery syringe and pulled in all hydraulic systems until the reservoir was at max level. I pulled out all I could with the syringe, filled with the fluid from Northtrail RV parts department (their recommendation) and away they went. Never saw them again, so I guess all was OK.

[OldKingKibitzer]

The latest discussion on changing the fluid is that it’s not necessary. I changed mine years ago when it was still suggested to do. The fluid may be AW32 hydraulic fluid or ATF. I just siphoned the fluid from the reservoir with a clear vinyl hose. I used Dexron fluid going back along with the CAT fluid. The final fluid level should be about an inch below the fill opening with the legs and slides retracted. Some will say to not mix the fluids, but the fluid in mine was amber colored, I guess the AW32, but still went with the ATF and never experienced any problems, and the fluid change was done at least four years ago. I also used jack stands under the frame close to the front jacks so I didn’t have the truck in my way.


Interesting...So my unit is a 2013 and has never been changed. I have a lot of popping/creaking and I'm thinking it may be due to worn out/cheap fluid. I figured it might be work a shot to change it and see what happens. Mine appears to be an amber/brownish color as well but I wasn't sure if it was that way just due to wear. Thanks for the info!

[OldKingKibitzer]

King, if ten people respond then you'll get about eight different methods of removing the fluid. When we changed the fluid in the neighbor's Montana I used a battery syringe and pulled in all hydraulic systems until the reservoir was at max level. I pulled out all I could with the syringe, filled with the fluid from Northtrail RV parts department (their recommendation) and away they went. Never saw them again, so I guess all was OK.

Very true but hopefully I'll learn something along the way!!

[chuckster57]

Interesting...So my unit is a 2013 and has never been changed. I have a lot of popping/creaking and I'm thinking it may be due to worn out/cheap fluid. I figured it might be work a shot to change it and see what happens. Mine appears to be an amber/brownish color as well but I wasn't sure if it was that way just due to wear. Thanks for the info!


There is a TSB? From Lippert about this and it involves adding 1 qt of different oil. I can’t seem to find the link right now, but there are a couple of different oils you can add.

[travelin texans]

Interesting...So my unit is a 2013 and has never been changed. I have a lot of popping/creaking and I'm thinking it may be due to worn out/cheap fluid. I figured it might be work a shot to change it and see what happens. Mine appears to be an amber/brownish color as well but I wasn't sure if it was that way just due to wear. Thanks for the info!

Retract slides, raise all jacks, remove 1quart of the fluid from the reservoir, replace with 1quart of 15w motorcycle fork oil, extend/retract slices & lower/raise the jacks a few cycles to mix the fluid. This should stop your popping/creaking.

[Roscommon48]

talk to lippert.


2013, never changed out my fluid.

[gearhead]

I just did mine. I had some squeeking and occasional popping. I used a Harbor Freight siphon hose with a squeeze bulb, similar to a marine primer bulb. Once it got started good, it siphoned out fairly quick. I had it hitched to the truck, all slides and feet retracted.
I used a quart of TORCO racing motorcycle fork oil, from Amazon, with Valvoline synthetic ATF. I don't think it would matter which variety of ATF you use, Mercon, etc.
Helped a lot with the squeeks and occasional popping.

[notanlines]

This is a little late, but still germane to the subject. I copied this from the DRV forum, but same auto-level manufacturer:

This is from the Lippert addendum: ADDING ANTI-STICTION FLUID TO LCI HYDRAULIC SYSTEMS

Introduction:
If there is a popping noise in a Lippert Leveling system, Lippert has approved adding a quart of anti-stiction
fluid. Approved fluids are listed by brand name and fluid characteristics below:
1. Torco RFF Grade 15
2. Maxima Fork Oil Grade 15
3. Caterpillar Hydraulic Oil Additive 1U-9891

For maximum results in the shortest amount of time, please follow the preparation and procedure exactly
as written below. Failure to follow the preparation and procedure may result in delayed resolution of the
audible disturbance.

Preparation:
1. Obtain a clean container (large enough to hold a quart of fluid)
2. Obtain a fluid extraction device (siphon, turkey baster, etc.)
3. Fully retract all hydraulic cylinders and jacks.

Process:
1. Using the fluid extraction device, remove one quart of fluid from the power unit reservoir.
2. Add 1/2 quart of the specified fluid.
3. Extend all hydraulic cylinders and jacks fully.
4. Add the remaining amount of the specified fluid.
5. Fully retract all hydraulic cylinders and jacks.
6. Run the Auto-Level feature on the Level-Up system per the instructions found in the Owner's Manual.

NOTE: If the noise persists, the addition of a second quart may be necessary. Follow steps 1 through 6.

[JRTJH]

Here is the link to the Lippert Technical Instruction (TI-191) that was last revised on 8/29/2018: https://lci-support-doc.s3.amazonaws.com/technical-information-sheets/leveling-and-stabilization/ccd_0002091.pdf

To change the fluid, retract all the slides and raise all the jacks/levelers. This will force the greatest amount of old fluid into the reservoir. Use a siphon to remove as much fluid as possible and then fill the reservoir to the appropriate level (about 1" below the full mark) with fresh fluid. If you're going to install one of the recommended "anti-stiction additives" do so before filling the reservoir. After replacing the fluid, extend all the slides and jacks/levelers several times to mix and distribute the new fluid. After every cycle of the slides and jacks/levelers, check the fluid level as there may be air in the system and as that air is replaced, the fluid level will go down. ALWAYS CHECK FLUID LEVEL WITH SLIDES AND JACKS/LEVELERS RETRACTED.

[ChuckS]

How you siphon out is your choice. What you put in for fluid should be what was already in the reservoir. If light brown color it’s AW32. If red ATF

Mixing the two is not ideal. AW32 s anti foaming anti oxidant with wear inhibitors

ATF is high detergent.

Replacing the fluid every 3 or 4 years is a good idea because all the worn particles are suspended in the fluid. The system has NO filter to remove these

At least by replying the reservoir fluid and running a few times you are mixing fresh in with old that’s still in all the lines and main valve body Assy

Some folks run the original fluid forever and have no issues. Just like running a car and not changing transmission fluid.

YMMV

[OldKingKibitzer]

This is some seriously helpful info- I'm absolutely planning on adding the fork oil.

How much fluid should I purchase? Is one gallon sufficient? Any brand suggestions or locations to purchase the AW32? Mine is brown so it would seem that's the wisest thing to do unless someone can convince me to just use ATF.

[gearhead]

I imagine mine could be different since it's not a Keystone, but I think I bought 4 quarts of ATF and the 1 quart of Torco. But the auto parts is just around the corner if I needed more ATF. If you are buying whatever additive and the hydraulic fluid on the internet you might buy 5 quarts plus the additive.
I couldn't find the CAT additive on Amazon, so just went with the Torco fork oil that Amazon did have.

[OldKingKibitzer]

Is there any benefit to putting 2 qts of the fork oil in from the get go? Or should I do one and then another if need be?

[ChuckS]

AW32 can be purchased at any Walmart. It’s right next to the ATF..

I would NOT add more than 1 Qt of stiction fluid ... the more you add the thinner the viscosity of the entire mix in the reservoir.

The hydraulic system seals have to hold well over 2000 lbs of hydraulic pressure.. thinning the AW32 out will help in cold weather operation as far as how much current the hydraulic pump motor draws but you will most likely find the “stiction” popping sounds you hear from time to time wont change much..

On a cold day as the sun warms up the hydraulic struts and such you will still get the “popping” sound when the inner hydraulic oil seal and the outer hydraulic piston move.

It’s inherent with ANY hydraulic piston with 2000 plus pounds of pressure

[OldKingKibitzer]

AW32 can be purchased at any Walmart. It’s right next to the ATF..

I would. It add more than 1 Qt of stiction fluid ... the more you add the thinner the viscosity of the entire mix in the reservoir.

The hydraulic system seals have to hold well over 2000 lbs of hydraulic pressure.. thinning the AW32 out will help in cold weather operation as far as how much current the hydraulic pump motor draws but you will most likely find the “stiction” popping sounds you hear from time to time wont change much..

On a cold day as the sun warms up the hydraulic struts and such you will still get the “popping” sound when the inner hydraulic oil seal and the outer hydraulic piston move.

It’s inherent with ANY hydraulic piston with 2000 plus pounds of pressure


Can I ask for clarification? Is that an I would or an I wouldn't :lol:

[ChuckS]

Edited my post... fat fingers on iPad. I’ve also talked with 3 different Tech folks at Lippert... they all stated “if the system currently has AW32 then don’t mix with ATF”

I then asked why every Lippert PDF and manual states ATF... did not get a straight answer...

If my hydraulic system came from builder...in this case..Keystone.. with AW32 in the reservoir that’s what I’d keep using...

Mixing fluid types isn’t good for the seals...AW32 and ATF ARE NOT the same type of fluid and I’m not risking leaking seals on 3 hydraulic actuators on my slides nor the six hydraulic lever legs.. not to mention the seals inside the main valve body of the hydraulic pump manifold, solenoids for levelers and slides, and pressure switch...

[OldKingKibitzer]

Edited my post... fat fingers on iPad. I’ve also talked with 3 different Tech folks at Lippert... they all stated “if the system currently has AW32 then don’t mix with ATF”

I then asked why every Lippert PDF and manually states ATF... did not get a straight answer...

If my hydraulic system came from builder...in this case..Kestone.. with AW32 in the reservoir that’s what I’d keep using...

Mixing fluid types isn’t good for the seals...AW32 and ATF ARE NOT the same type of fluid and I’m not risking leaking seals on 3 hydraulic actuators on my slides nor the six hydraulic lever legs.. not to mention the seals inside the main valve body of the hydraulic pump manifold, solenoids for levelers and slides, and pressure switch...

Haha Thanks for the clarification. I just wanted to make sure. Good to know about not mixing fluids...Mine is the brown AW32 so that's what I'll stick to!

And just to make sure- Is it possible for the ATF to deteriorate to the point that it's brownish? I'm used to dealing with fluids out of a vehicle so they change colors as they heat/cool and see use.

[travelin texans]

They factory techs added the anti stiction oil (Maxima fork oil) to my system as I stated above, afterwards never changed in 6+ years as fulltimers & used the fork oil to top it off when/if needed, no issues.

[bobbecky]

This is the Lippert fluid recommendations for their hydraulic systems. Notice that the fluid recommendations only say do not use Type F ATF, as that fluid will not work with their seals:

https://lci-support-doc.s3.amazonaws.com/technical-information-sheets/leveling-and-stabilization/ccd_0002088.pdf

This is the Lippert instructions for adding stiction fluid to their hydraulic systems. Notice that they recommend adding a second quart of stiction fluid if one quart does not solve the problem:

https://lci-support-doc.s3.amazonaws.com/technical-information-sheets/leveling-and-stabilization/ccd_0002091.pdf

[ctbruce]

The best advice on this whole thread was Jim's advice and the posted Lippert service bulletin: FOLLOW THESE INSTRUCTIONS EXACTLY!

[ChuckS]

I just do not concur with “following Lipperts service PDFs” when it comes to what fluid to put in your hydraulic fluid reservoir.. Neither does Lippert..

The system is made by them but installed by different vendors..such as Keystone and Jayco.. Neither come from factory with ATF fluid in the reservoir. It is AW32..

Chat today with Lippert Support .....

John (10/21/2019, 1:51:14 PM): Hello Chuck Steed. How may I assist you Today? -- Tech

Me (10/21/2019, 1:53:15 PM): I currently have a 2014 Alpine with all hydraulic slides and six point level up... The fluid that is in my reservoir is NOT ATF fluid.. it is AW32 honey colored and came that way from factory.. All the Support Lippert PDFs I can find say to service with ATF BUT iM NOT FOND OF THE IDEA OF mixing fluid types.. I am wanting to extract the fluid from reservoir and re-service with fresh fluid

John (10/21/2019, 1:54:01 PM): Just use Hydraulic fluid AW32 weight. Jayco and Keystone will use Hydraulic oil which is completely fine

Me (10/21/2019, 1:54:56 PM): OK so just curious as to why all the support docs state ATF? I gather its because you folks make the hydraulic system and then the RV builder installs it and services with what they prefer to use

John (10/21/2019, 1:55:21 PM): You are 100 % correct Chuck

Me (10/21/2019, 1:55:37 PM): OK that's all I needed to know and thanks for your time

John (10/21/2019, 1:55:56 PM): No problem! Enjoy your days

Mixing fluid types IS NOT a smart idea and they have different qualities ...ATF being high detergent..

Your hydraulic cylinder actuators, seals, etc will most likely last much longer by staying with the “original” type of fluid it was initially serviced with..

AW32 is specifically designed to operate at high pressure.. the typical pump pressure in the Lippert Hydraulic system is well over 2000psi...

ATF is designed for lower operating pressure but higher temperatures..

Seal swelling can be incurred if you mix the two types of fluid in your system
YMMV

[Brantlyj]

As someone who was in the hydraulic industry for over 20 years I can tell you with complete confidence that with a properly operating system you do not have to replace the hydraulic fluid.

Also generic ATF is perfectly fine. I have had customers using it on snow plow applications in excess of 3000 psi and are a much higher duty cycle than operating a few little cylinders a few times a month. In fact in this application I would prefer ATF over hydraulic fluid as it’s a lighter weight than standard hydraulic fluid. Also it has additives that could help prevent the sticktion that was mentioned. In systems where there is very little usage such as an RV hyd oil can oxidize and cause the rod and piston seals to adhere to the rod and bore.

[Pugtracker]

I wanted to change my fluid but now I think I'll just leave it alone.
Did anyone ask Keystone what they put in the system or did I miss it?