Norcold 2118 Fridge / Freezer

[Mick 1836]

Our 2018 Keystone Alpine 3500 RL came fitted with a Norcold 2118 18.3 cu ft fridge is struggling.
Our Alpine is out in Spain, in July we shut down the fridge / freezer and flew home to the UK until yesterday.
Turned fridge on using mains electric, freezer cools but not fridge, switched to propane, fridge slightly cooled any ideas????

[xrated]

The very first thing to check is the Door Flap on that model. I also have the same model Norcold and a very, very common problem is that the door flap, on the left door hangs up and doesn't close completely. When this happens, there is now a gap between the left door and the right door and the refrigerator compartment will not cool down as it should. The next thing to check is the Thermistor in the frig compartment. If you look inside, the cooling find at the back wall will have a small metal device with a white wire coming off of it. The clip that holds the Thermistor should be on the second fin from the right, and the top of the clip should be 3/ -1/2 inch from the top of THAT fin. Check out those two things and give it a try.....and let us know. After I fixed the door flap issue on mine, it will keep the frig compartment in the mid 30s Fahrenheit, with the temperature control set on either 3 or 4.

[Mick 1836]

Hi Xrated, first thank you for your reply and your suggestions, both left door flap and the thermistor are closing and on the correct fin and location.


The fridge / freezer worked okay prior to it been switched off in July which is what is puzzling :confused::confused:

[KOZKO]

I’m not sure how to help here but just to be clear I got this message from Norcold about thermistor position.

“The thermistor should be connected to the 2nd fin from the right and should be 2” from the top.”

Thank you,
Customer Service
Thetford Corp. / Norcold Inc.
1 (800) 543-1219 Opt. 1

[xrated]

I need to make a correction......I was on my tablet when I posted above. The correct position of the thermistor clip, according the manual that came with mine is.........3/8" - 1/2" from the top of the second fin from the right....my numbers didn't come out correctly in my first post.

PS......I've not heard about the 2" position. In fact, the further you move it down from the top, the warmer the refrigerator will get if everything stays the same....outside temperature, same setting on the control, etc.

[chuckster57]

Make sure the fans at the top of the fridge in the back are coming on. You should be able to hear them once the top of the cooling unit reaches the proper temp, don’t recall right now but if they aren’t coming on your issue is common.

[Mick 1836]

Morning Guy's, on going to the fridge this morning found it working again, I did move the thermistor slightly on the 2nd fin so presume that had some effect, thank you all for your help and advice:applause:

[Racebug]

mine takes 2 days to achieve proper temp. added an outside fan and we are good to go no matter how hot it gets outside

[travelin texans]

Adding the battery powered fridge fan inside on a bottom shelf also helps tremendously. The batteries last almost 2 months, fan cost about $12 (10+ years ago) & probably spent $100+ on D batteries in that 10+ years, but never had a fridge issue in 3 RVs in that time either, all worked great, both Dometic & Norcold. It also seemed to slow the frost buildup in the freezer, how I don't know, but DW only had to defrost about once a year while full-timing.

[EMTPRescue]

New 2019 Montana 3790RK. On Shoreline. Temp set to 9 for diagnostic purposes. Outside temps not getting above 20C and only that high later in the afternoon. Trailer is levhel. Fridge and Freezer are about 25% loaded. The unit has temps of -11C Freezer and +3C in Fridge. It has not been opened for more than 48 hrs. The L door flapper is in the correct 90 degree position. The fridge seems to run continuously or at least 15 hrs in a 24 hr day. Set at 9 this unit should be almost at O or below in the fridge and the freezer should be lower than -15. My fear is that as the daytime temps begin to creep up this unit is demonstrating that it is struggling to maintain normal temps at moderate day time temps. What is going to happen when summer comes? The net is filled with posts complaining of the same thing. My temps are the same when I had set to 1. Nothing seems to make any difference. I have a friend with a new Grand Design with the same fridge and his runs the far too much as well. I suspect Norcold built a fridge that is too large and the cooling capacity is too small to cool that much volumetric area.

[JRTJH]

New 2019 Montana 3790RK. On Shoreline. Temp set to 9 for diagnostic purposes. Outside temps not getting above 20C and only that high later in the afternoon. Trailer is levhel. Fridge and Freezer are about 25% loaded. The unit has temps of -11C Freezer and +3C in Fridge. It has not been opened for more than 48 hrs. The L door flapper is in the correct 90 degree position. The fridge seems to run continuously or at least 15 hrs in a 24 hr day. Set at 9 this unit should be almost at O or below in the fridge and the freezer should be lower than -15. My fear is that as the daytime temps begin to creep up this unit is demonstrating that it is struggling to maintain normal temps at moderate day time temps. What is going to happen when summer comes? The net is filled with posts complaining of the same thing. My temps are the same when I had set to 1. Nothing seems to make any difference. I have a friend with a new Grand Design with the same fridge and his runs the far too much as well. I suspect Norcold built a fridge that is too large and the cooling capacity is too small to cool that much volumetric area.

Something you need to consider is the ambient temperature during your refrigerator run tests.

There is a "small LPG flame" (or an electric element) to heat the ammonia refrigerant. The "operating outdoor temperature range" is critical to successful refrigerator operation. If it's "too cold around the back of the refrigerator" there can be a problem with "enough heat from that little flame/heat element" to boil the refrigerant. Just as "the refrigerator has problems cooling when it's over 110F and the fans don't help enough" There is also a problem with getting enough heat to the refrigerator heat stack during extremely cold weather.

Without knowing what the outside temperature was when you were doing those tests, there may not be a problem with your refrigerator. When it's below about 20F here, I have to put a 60 watt bulb on a drop light behind the refrigerator to keep the temperature high enough for the ammonia to "boil" in the heat stack...

Depending on ambient temperature, there may not be anything wrong with your refrigerator.

I'm not suggesting that it's working properly, but there's a "very fine line" between the refrigerator heating system being overwhelmed and operating within the design criteria.

So, how cold was it "outside" when you were doing the tests? That may have at least some impact on how much cooling you see in the freezer/refrigerator compartments.

[Frank G]

The 2118 is slow to react to changes and cool down. If it cools on Propane but not so much on electric there are (2) TWO electric heaters and one may not be functioning. In Temperatures 30 deg F to 90 deg F, set on 5, ours stays at 10 deg F in the freezer and 35 deg F in the refrigerator, +/- 5 deg. A lot depends on how much you open it /load it/ fill it with warm beer, watermelon, etc. It really likes a lot of stuff in the freezer and make Ice at night. Remember, it has a built in defrost cycle. We have used ours over 500 days and are satisfied with it and would do it again.

[EMTPRescue]

All the same as my original post. Went out after four day tour of duty and our frideg while set tom 5 and on shorelione was at -12C and +4C. My monitoring system told me that it had got as cold as -16C and +2C over the previous for days. It is the high temp ranges that concern me the freezer had been as high as -8C and the fridge had gone up to +6C. Those temperatures are not conducive to safe food storage. The trailer sits in the samew palce as last three have sat. It is level. Average day time highs were about 24C. That's way above the low F Temperature you had mentioned for having to put a light bulb in the back to warm it up. The fridge doors are shut correctly. It is about 30% full of product. The outside vents are not blocked. The outside cooling fans cycle on. I switched it to gas to see if the performance would improve in the manner that all of the fridges in our last 10 RVs have always done and it got worse with a noteable rise in internal fridge temperatures.

[EMTPRescue]

Where did you get the information regarding a "Defrost Cycle"? Nothing in the manual about one nor is there anything mentioned on the Norcold website. First I have heard of an RV gas absoption fridge having such a cycle. They are so slow to recover I can"t undestand why they would intentionaly create an event that heats up the fridge. These do not work like residential frost free refrigerators that have a 24hr timer that shuts them down and heats up the walls of the freeezer to melt the frost/ice in that freezer compartment to allow the water to drain. I'm confused!

[Frank G]

Where did you get the information regarding a "Defrost Cycle"? Nothing in the manual about one nor is there anything mentioned on the Norcold website. First I have heard of an RV gas absoption fridge having such a cycle. They are so slow to recover I can"t undestand why they would intentionaly create an event that heats up the fridge. These do not work like residential frost free refrigerators that have a 24hr timer that shuts them down and heats up the walls of the freeezer to melt the frost/ice in that freezer compartment to allow the water to drain. I'm confused!

https://norcold.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/06/norcold-2118-rv-refrigerator-owners-manual.pdf

Page 7 Temperature Control System

"At regular Intervals, the temperature control system automatically melts most of the frost from the cooling fins."

From personal experience, the above only applies to the refrigerator section, as there is no way to drain the condensate from the freezer. We never used the freezer for long term food preservation as the temperatures did not satisfy the requirements.

We always put 4 or 5 of those portable blue Ice packs in the freezer to provide a cushion for the cyclic events of the unit. Same for the refrigerator section, fill the unused portion with water bottles or Beer.

65 years ago, out in Grandfathers garage were two old "Ice Boxes" and some strange saws along with tongs and picks, he described as Ice Saws. Then came the stories of cutting Ice and storing it for use all summer. Least we forget. Gramps liked his "Buckeyes" cold.

[EMTPRescue]

Frank thanks for the reference in the owners manual. What is really interesting is that Norcold on their website in the FAQ section of their support catagory answers the same question by stating that the fridge does not have "defrost cycle". In your reply to me you also said that you have never used the freezer compartment for food storage because you did not feel it was condusive to long term storage. I find it very sad that we spend a bucket load of disposable income and then have to make sacrifices because the very expensive equipment will not work the way the manufacturer claims it will. Looking at my internal temp history it appears this fridge has about a 15 - 18 degree C varience between the freezer and the fridge. If of freezer is at -16 our fridge section tends to follow at or around 0C. As the temps increase then they both of course go up but they always seem to have that variece.

[EMTPRescue]

Are you saying that you put a 4th fan in the back? If so where? Is it thermostatically as well? Are you certain all 3 of your fans provided by Norcold are working correctly? Norcold claims the 2118 comes from the factory with 3. 1 on the bottom of the coil pushing air and the 2 on the top are pulling air.

[xrated]

Are you saying that you put a 4th fan in the back? If so where? Is it thermostatically as well? Are you certain all 3 of your fans provided by Norcold are working correctly? Norcold claims the 2118 comes from the factory with 3. 1 on the bottom of the coil pushing air and the 2 on the top are pulling air.

I have the 2118 in my Momentum and there are in fact, three fans on the backside. The one at the bottom that "pushes" air upward is TINY....maybe 2" in diameter....really! The two towards the top are probably 4" ....maybe 4 1/2". I will be installing another set of fans on the upper grill, inside and blowing outward. Here is a link to the ones that I'm getting soon.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07F2K5GCW/?coliid=I2TBWJLWPPEGZU&colid=3OCCIL325J3O8&psc=1&ref_=lv_ov_lig_dp_it

[Frank G]

We do store food in the freezer, but not long term. No more than a month. The recommended temperature for long term storage of properly wrapped food is -18 deg C. Our freezer hovers around -12 deg C. This is a personal choice, along with using a vacuum sealer.

[Snoking]

This is the fan I installed on the upper cover blowing air out.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B009XERK6G/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Chris

[JRTJH]

This is the fan I installed on the upper cover blowing air out.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B009XERK6G/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Chris

I bet that "cool blue light" emanating from the roof vent gives a unique look to the trailer at night... And, if you want to operate in winter, the red one would add "warmth and charm" to the roof.. Maybe even serve as a "beacon for Santa" since RV'ers often have no permanent address....

Gives a whole new meaning to "Red light district" :popcorn:

[Snoking]

I bet that "cool blue light" emanating from the roof vent gives a unique look to the trailer at night... And, if you want to operate in winter, the red one would add "warmth and charm" to the roof.. Maybe even serve as a "beacon for Santa" since RV'ers often have no permanent address....

Gives a whole new meaning to "Red light district" :popcorn:

OH the roof vents!!! That is one of the major issue with most 2118 installation in slide outs. NO Roof vent to create a good chimney effect creating the required air flow.

[flybouy]

OH the roof vents!!! That is one of the major issue with most 2118 installation in slide outs. NO Roof vent to create a good chimney effect creating the required air flow.

I thought the blue fan made it blow colder air:cool: but know I'm thinking it's a factor of the crystal ball that predicted the future issue of the 2118 install.:lol:

:flowers:Sorry, couldn't stop myself.:hide:

[Snoking]

I thought the blue fan made it blow colder air:cool: but know I'm thinking it's a factor of the crystal ball that predicted the future issue of the 2118 install.:lol:

:flowers:Sorry, couldn't stop myself.:hide:

Yeah, the red one would NOT be good for cooling!!!!

The ducting and baffles at the top are very important and sometimes not installed to spec. I also changed the temp switch from 130 to 115 if I remember correctly.

[flybouy]

Yeah, the red one would NOT be good for cooling!!!!

The ducting and baffles at the top are very important and sometimes not installed to spec. I also changed the temp switch from 130 to 115 if I remember correctly.

What!? Keystone make an install error? Surely you jest!:lol::lol:

[Big 417]

Make sure there's no obstruction in the "chimney", as in nests or other critters.

Also on our fridge, the handles you squeeze to open the doors got sticky, if the don't pop back, the little pins don't pop up to latch the doors. Applies to fridge and freezer. Also make sure the strip at the bottom of the fridge trim is securely popped in place. Ours had popped out on the ends

[Snoking]

It is also a good idea to put a Nylon washer or two on the lower hinge pin of the left hand door. You pull the trim off on the left side between the upper and lower door, remove the upper hinge and then lift the door off and put the washers on and put it back together.

I have to remove the door latches about every year and clean them to keep the pin from sicking down. We just returned to live in the 5th wheel for the summer and the pin of the right hand door is sticking. Between cleaning up leafs, twigs and burning weeds, I have to put this in the schedule.

[Big 417]

It is also a good idea to put a Nylon washer or two on the lower hinge pin of the left hand door. You pull the trim off on the left side between the upper and lower door, remove the upper hinge and then lift the door off and put the washers on and put it back together.

I have to remove the door latches about every year and clean them to keep the pin from sicking down. We just returned to live in the 5th wheel for the summer and the pin of the right hand door is sticking. Between cleaning up leafs, twigs and burning weeds, I have to put this in the schedule.


Always plenty to do lol. As for the left panel center strip not going to 90°, I took and sanded the butts of the bottom. Not an issue with that since

[xrated]

Always plenty to do lol. As for the left panel center strip not going to 90°, I took and sanded the butts of the bottom. Not an issue with that since

That's exactly what I did on mine. Took it off of the door and unplugged it, laid it down on a bench and went to work with some 80 grit paper and then some 150 grit when done. I haven't had an issue with it since also.

https://i.imgur.com/bno9WBy.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/vNdGZ9s.jpg

[EMTPRescue]

Straight from Norcold Customer service rep that I got on the phone today.

My two questions were why does my fridge seem to run all the time and why can it not hold temperatures once the day starts to warm up even if we never open a door.

Answers in no particular order of importance.

1) Make certain the trailer is level. No Brainer. Also try to not park the unit in a place where direct sunlight can shine on the outside vent covers. They are black and collect heat. Good think NASA didn't rely on Norcold to get 13 home!
2) 2118 doors sag post installation and even more so if they are filled with heavy liquids while in use. Shims are required. Thin nylon washers work the best. No chance of rusting. Make certain you shim both the L and R doors to the same amount.
3) After shimming or as a "just in case measure" check all door seals by putting a bright light in the fridge/freezer once it is dark in the trailer. Look around the perimeter of each section looking for light which means an air leak is present.
4) Check the resistive values of the Thermistor. They correspond to specific Thermistor temperatures. Make certain when you are measuring the resistance and the temperature of the Thermistor at the same time and that you have not just assumed that it is that same temp that the fridge is at. They are seldom nor should they be the same. Use a multi-meter to check the resistance with the Thermistor unplugged and measure the Thermistor temperature with an aiming type IR thermometer. The resistive values for a respective temperature are published on the Norcold website in the online service manual. If they do not match then the Thermistor needs to be replaced. In that same manual, there is a section that shows you how to put the front display into a number of "diagnostic" modes. Here is another way to diagnose if the Thermistor is good. One of the diagnostic modes will tell you what the control thinks the Thermistor temperature is. If you measure the Thermistor at the same time and find that it is a different temperature than the control is displaying, then it is sending the wrong temperature data to the control and again the Thermistor needs to be replaced.
5) Make certain that when one cooling fan is running in the back that they are all on. There are three of them. One in the bottom blowing up and the other two in the top sucking up. They are all independently thermostatically controlled but are all rated to operate at the same temperature levels so they all should be running comparatively at the same time.
6) Look at the top of the heat exchanger chimney. There is supposed to be a spiral baffle clipped to it. That baffle is designed to slow down the hot air from escaping too rapidly which would lead to a reduction in the time the heated air has to boil the liquid ammonia in the heat exchanger portion of the cooling unit. This apparently is well known to have been omitted during the installation of the these fridges. While you are up there, make certain nothing is obstructing the airflow over the cooling coils . One of the biggest offenders has been found to be random pieces of fiberglass insulation that have either fallen off of a side wall or was just just left up there because someone was less than attentive to the task at hand during the construction process. (I know. Never happens at Keystone. Right?)
7) Visually check for leaks. If the gas is leaking you will smell ammonia or see the location of the leak by it having a yellowish stain in the area.
8) Make certain the propane flame kernel is not being obstructed or diverted. The problem arises with RVs that are stored for long periods of time in cold humid conditions. Rust can form on the inside of the flame chimney which can and very often does drop off the first time you bounce the unit down the road again. The rust particles or pieces can fall onto the burner and divert/block the flame all together. Vacuum the debris out if visualized.
9) Place additional air circulation fans in the fridge to keep the air moving. The one that Norcold puts in fridge is a good attempt but not adequate. Dometic makes one that is battery operated although for my Scottish blood it is too expensive. A couple of strategically placed 12V DC computer fans would be just as effective and the batteries would never die.
10) What seems to be of greatest importance and one of the first things I was asked by the tech was how full is the fridge? Lets look at some comparative numbers given the assumption that these fridges are very poor at recovery which we all known they are. If your fridge is 75% full of cool/frozen product then only 25% of the fridge's total volume is occupied by air and as such, only 25% of the fridge's volume pours out of the fridge in the form of "freely exchanged" air when you open the door. Accordingly, it then only has to re-cool 25% of that now warm exchanged air. By comparison, if you only have the fridge filled to 40% of it's capacity, then when you open the door 60% of that cool "free air" spills out and it then has to work far longer to re-cool that increased volume of warm air that has flowed in when the cool air left. Moral to this story is keep the fridge full and the product you have in the fridge will help to cool down what will be a reduced volume of exchanged free air each time you open the door.

The biggest take away thing for me was that the Tech came just short saying what I have long suspected to be true. This 1940s technology was implemented in RV fridges many years ago so that people could have a fridge and not have to rely on blocks of ice in an ice box. Fast forward to today and the fact of the matter is that the fridges are borderline too larger for the operational limitations of the technology.

[rbrdriver]

In our Alpine we put up with the Norcold it came with for about a year and a half and finally "fixed" the problem. We yanked it out and installed a Whirlpool side by side residential fridge with ice maker in door. Love it!! We are on hookups 90% of the time anyways so what the heck. Now I can actually store ice cream in it and everything. We also have a good battery bank and inverter so no problem when travelling or the occasional booddock situation.

[EMTPRescue]

So I am certain that I have figured out the challenges with our fridge.
First, I finally got my ladder out and removed the top fridge vent cover. Surprise! In the infinite wisdom of the Keystone not so much engineering Engineers, they decided to put a full width piece of aluminum sheeting on the bottom 1/3 of the upper fridge vent access. Net effect is that at least 33% of the available hot air escape pathway way eliminated. I can only presume that some brainiac decided to install that because of a rash of warranty claims most likely associated with people taking their RV to the car wash, spraying directly into that upper vent, soaking the components in the back that then generates a fault code and the fridge shuts down. I removed that sheet metal and guess what? The the fridge worked much better. Additionally, so as get maximum venting of hot air from the back I also installed three 4" high capacity, low DB 12V computer fans. I attached them to the front of the fins on the upper most cooling condenser and pointed them to blow outwards through the vent cover/grill . They are controlled by an electronic thermostat that is adjustable and has an LCD display to tell me what the temperature of the air back there is. I set the stat to have the fans turn on @ +30C. I was very surprised to find out that even with ambient outside air at only +15C, the air inside that rear compartment ran at +30 to +35C on 120V AC and increased up to +40 to +45C while running on LPG. Also, even with the fans blowing the hot air out of the upper vent area the temperatures shot a further +5 to +7C when I put the upper vent grill cover back on. I have long suspected the grill covers, that are the same size as our former Jayco TT with an 8 cubic ft fridge, are just not wide enough to adequately vent the heat developed by this size of fridge. I have seen other manufactures either put two narrower vent covers side by side or put a singe much wider grill cover on both the bottom and the top. With the fridges in the slide and as such their not being able to be vented directly out of the roof, this dual side wall venting compromise is just not effective enough for the fridges to work to their full potential. I wonder why Keystone has not yet "KEYED" in. Our fridge now runs at -12 to -16C and +1 to +3 respectively. Recovery time remains an undesirable aspect as does the duty cycle length but at least the fridge is now cooling appropriately.Though I would like to see the freezer section colder, I am pretty certain that this is as good as it's going to get. Good luck guys with resolving your fridge challenges. I hope my work arounds and diagnostics have been helpful.

[travelin texans]

Our last 5er had a double door Norcold that I also removed the piece of paneling they had covering 3/4 of the upper vent. The 1st thing I noticed were the coils were 6-8" below the lower end of the upper vent opening which made the exhaust portion about 14-18" above the coils & only about a 2 1/2 - 3" opening. Once the block removed the Norcold worked very well even in extreme ambient temperatures.
Right or wrong, bad or good engineering? Whatever, mine worked better after my modification.

[Knight1]

I found the same issue in our 2020 Montana 3760FL. The Norcold fridge and freezer worked well when we first turned it on and left it running, on AC, at home. Once we got it into it's spot at our seasonal site, the freezer seemed to be struggling - anything frozen stayed solid, anything new that went in wouldn't freeze hard, even ice cubes. Pulled the outside top cover and discovered the same thing, full width sheet of aluminum covering the bottom half of the vent opening. I moved it down so that it's flush with the bottom but also discovered the deflector installed on top of the fridge was very poorly installed. Install specs say it needs to be within 1/2" of the top of the fridge and angled out to the top of the vent opening. This is to deflect the excess heat from sitting in on top of the fridge. The deflector was at least 1 1/2" above the middle of the fridge and ended above the vent opening. I pulled this out too and re-shaped it to sit tight to the top of the fridge as close to the back edge as possible and tapered it so that it stops right at the top edge of the vent. Have noticed a big improvement in the overall cooling, but still struggling to freeze ice, although the meat that we've put in is now actually freezing again. I haven't experimented with air temps inside the fridge/freezer, so i'm not sure what they're sitting at.
And, also noticed the same thing with the left hand door flap, was sticking on the inside bottom of the fridge and not closing properly, but i addressed that pretty quickly.

[EMTPRescue]

OK everyone, here is the real story. Though I am not endorsing his company finally someone who is being honest and truthful.
Here is my Email string with JC Refrigeration.
My take away thing is that for those of us that are not "YET" experiencing challenges it is just a matter of when not if.

Good morning, yes we do hear your story a lot, long story short is they increased the heat on the LP burner from 2100BTUs to 3000 BTUs and then went from a 450W to 650W on the heaters and yet the unit is practically the same size unit they us eon there normal 10 cuft size, and so what they have developed is a kid trying to do a mans job. Which works half decent in your 60s and 70s but once you get above that it cannot work as it should because of the het buildup

So we took the BTUs down again and built a unit that will perform double the capacity then what the one in there now does, the results are it will keep up in any types of weather conditions, you can try Norcolds extended warranty but my guess is you will be back to what all the other people are back to and that is changing out the cooling system or the complete fridge

See attachments

JR Lambright
JC Refrigeration LLC / DutchAire Hvac LLC
6495 W 200 N
Shipshewana IN 46565
260-768-4067/ [email protected] www.jc-refrigeration.com

Open Monday – Thursday/ 8am-3pm
Friday/ 10am-2pm we are closed June the 29th thru July 5th

“ Little by Little life goes by,
Short if you sing but
Long if you sigh”





-----Original Message-----
From: David Dubbin <[email protected]>
Sent: Sunday, July 5, 2020 3:07 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: New Message From JC Refrigeration - Get In Touch

Name: David Dubbin
Phone: 1-403-6501597
Email: [email protected]
State: Calgary, Alberta, Canada
Message: I won't bore you with yet another story of absolutely inadequate levels of standard performance from our Norcold 2118 fridge in our new 2019 Montana 3790. We are very experienced RVs with some 40 yrs under our belt with this new RV being our tenth in that time frame. Our ambient daytime temps have only very seldom reached up to 75F and yet our fridge struggles to keep up and runs on average 20+ hours a day. It's absolutely disgraceful that both the manufacturers of these trailers and the fridge itself feel that that performance is acceptable. The blogs are filled with folks trying to engineer work arounds to get the fridges to improve performance. I have done them all. Extra fans in the back. Four extra circulation fans in the fridge section. Three more in the back to aid with the evac of hot air in the rear cavity. Temps are better but still not reliably acceptable and the run cylce frequency is nuts and again we have not hit summer day time temps above 80F.
I can honestly see a class action lawsuit on the horizon.
I am very interested in your retro fit. What I am going to wait for is to see if Norcold accepts my application for an extended warranty. If they don't then we will be talking. We have just owned this coach for three months and there is no way that I am going to play this game for years to come.
My opinion is that these fridges are just too big for the 50+ year old gas absorption type of technology!
Question.
What are the "total" shipping costs for the unit that we would need to be shipped to Calgary, Alberta, Canada, T1Y 6M9?

Please keep in mind that I will be buying with the Canadian dollar that as of today is worth only $.60 compared to a USD. That adds about a extra $450.00 cost to your unit before it leaves your shop.
What is the operation current draw of the compressor and on average, how many hours a day should it run once the fridge is pulled down to temp and the ambient air temps are say 70F? I know it's like asking how long is a piece of string but I am certain you have a basic idea or why would you have even started the business. What makes the compressor so much more efficient then say what was available 20 years ago. Or is not as much about an increased efficiency but more about the fact that the compressor motors are 12-24V DC where as in the past they just did not exist. Additionally, what is your position with reference to how robust the entire unit is considering that Rv's are essentially rolling earth quakes going down the road. What have you engineered into your product to address that sort of environment? I am very interested in hearing from you. Thanks so much.


2118 Norcold


#1 the new cooling unit option:
Converts your existing fridge to a residential fridge, (which eliminates your Lp gas and ammonia absorption system) this cooling unit is built with a compressor system and not only do you get to keep your same fridge and controls you are used to but there is no need to remove the windshield, door or window to get the old fridge out and the new in -nor the hassle of cutting or redoing the cabinets to make a new fridge fit. There is also no need to have your coach level anymore for the fridge, since this unit will have a compressor. It pulls .8 Amp 96.4W on AC 650% less than what a normal residential fridge will pull - or 375% less than your existing gas/elect unit. And will run off a 1000W inverter (does not require pure sign wave). Or we can also do a DC 12V Compressor off the 12V wires behind the fridge with a 7.5A draw. This cooling unit is designed to withstand hot humid temps and will keep your ice-cream hard with 70% faster cooling. This unit comes with a 3-year warranty with the option for an additional 3 years for $125, it is very user friendly to work on in the field should it need it down the road. We can ship to you on a pallet (LTL) $185 to a place of business or $250 to a resident or $170 to the nearest terminal…… place your order or schedule an install appointment off our website (2118 Hvac 12V) https://jc-refrigeration.com/product/norcold-2118-hvac-12-24v-dc-conversion/
(2118 Hvac 120V) https://jc-refrigeration.com/product/norcold-2118-hvac-120v/
or call 260-768-4067

[rbrdriver]

Why not just do like we did and swap it for a residential? :cool:

[EMTPRescue]

Residential release their heat inside and we also dry camp where a residential fridge will draw a lot of current as I would have to run my inverter full time to power it. A 12 Volt compressor just makes more sense for us

[Snoking]

Residential release their heat inside and we also dry camp where a residential fridge will draw a lot of current as I would have to run my inverter full time to power it. A 12 Volt compressor just makes more sense for us

I built a custom refer/freezer on our boat with a 12 V compressor. It was our biggest power draw. We used around 100 amp hours per day when anchored out. You have to be able to replace those amp hours. I had a 140 amp alternator with smart regulator on the starboard engine and a Heart inverter with 75 amp charger for when on shore power. Battery bank was 780 amp hours created with 6 260 amp hr 6V batteries. Moving every 3 days and running for a few hours would get me back to 85% charged. Long run days I could get it all back.

I created this spread sheet a few years back. Chris

[EMTPRescue]

We have 920 watts of solar on our roof and 325 amp hours of reserve capacity in our battery bank. The reason I am considering going down the 12V route is both for the energy efficiency/reduction and the increase in operational effectiveness. With the present design that Norcold employed they have simply added a lower gear to the transmission of the vehicle expecting that vehicle to tow a heavier load up the same steep hill that it knows the vehicle could not tow up with the original gear set. The true and most required fix is to put a more powerful engine in the vehicle or use a different vehicle so that it is not having to work as hard to pull the load. The going to a residential fridge would be even more electrical draw with less percentage of that same electricity going to running the fridge's compressor because of power loss experienced through the inverter. We also have a 4KW Pure Sine Wave invertor. The take away thing from JC- Refrigeration for me was how Norcold primarily just increased the power consumption of the cooling unit as a design fix rather than putting a larger and more capable cooling unit in the fridge. A comparively same unit as in their 10 cuft fridge is just nuts when the 2118 is 80% larger. Put a lower gear into a Volkswagon Beetle expecting it to pull 10K lbs load up a hill is just stupid. Norcold never should used a Beetle to do the work of an F450. Just my opinion of course but the fact remains that the fridge is simply not up to the task in it's present configuration and that lack of capability is born solely by Norcold and Keystone.

[Snoking]

that lack of capability is born solely by Norcold and Keystone.

I have the same 2118 is a Heartland product. RV manufacturers were sold a bill of goods by Norcold.

[EMTPRescue]

I blame not only Norcold. The RV manufactures very much know about this problem as well. Why else would every one of them offer residential style fridges as options in these larger trailers. The replacement cost of these fridges is nuts as well. $5000.00+ plus to replace an insulated box with a bunch of bent pipe bolted to the back of it is legal larceny as far as I am concerned. I can't figure out where there is more than $500.00 worth of stuff in these fridges let alone $5000.00. As I said in a statement a couple of posts ago, I can see a class action suit on the horizon. It won't start up here in the Great White North but you folks down south are far less tolerant of getting ripped off then us passive Canucks are. Again, just my humble Canuck opinion.

[JRTJH]

Sounds like yet another "engineering fail", this time with Norcold rather than Ford, Firestone, Boeing, GM or the host of other companies that "took the leap with hopes of getting out ahead of the pack"....

Unfortunate for owners of the refrigerators in question, but in all honesty, there have been 15 cuft (and significantly larger) absorption refrigerators in use for 50-75 years. Go to any Amish settlement and walk into the grocery or deli stores and take a look at their "walk in coolers" that operate on absorption systems.

It's not the process, it's the way that Norcold engineered their product. Total fail. The fact that all of the RV manufacturers "also leaped at the innovation" puts them partly to blame. They should stop using a product that doesn't work. But the burden of failure is on Norcold.

[EMTPRescue]

Could not of said it better myself. The journey continues.

[NMRandy]

I installed a 12 vdc fan on the top cover, with a grille, to push air out of the refrigerator cabinet. The fridge cools much better now. Not as good as an electric residential unit, but pretty well. Stays about 0 deg F in the freezer and 33 deg F in the fridge area

[Snoking]

I installed a 12 vdc fan on the top cover, with a grille, to push air out of the refrigerator cabinet. The fridge cools much better now. Not as good as an electric residential unit, but pretty well. Stays about 0 deg F in the freezer and 33 deg F in the fridge area

I have two fans pushing hot air out the top grill and a lower temp switch operating the fans. Still a so so refer. If I go above level 6 to get the freezer colder, then things in the frig area start freezing.

[NMRandy]

The extra fan pushing the hot air out of the outer cabinet seemed to do the trick for me. I am in a lot of 90 - 95 deg heat, my fridge is in the slide, my fridge covers are black, my rig is grey, and the sun is on the fridge side of the rig in the afternoon. All not great for the operation on the unit. Before I put the fan in the fridge area would get to 45 deg without opening the doors. Now on 7 it will get below freezing in the fridge area. The freezer will keep ice cream, and stays at 0 deg F to -5 deg F.

[Laredo Tugger]

I have this fridge/freezer in my 5er. I have not noticed any real deficiencies in it's performance. On our last trip this summer the ice cream was a little soft but we did have more groceries and freezer items than normal.
I did have one trip where I was parked in 90-95 degree temps each day (for about 3 weeks) and the fridge side of the trailer was exposed to the afternoon sun. We noticed that the fridge was not cooling as it normally had.
I propped the exterior covers (left the top of the covers screwed into the trailer side and extended the bottom portion out) away from the trailer. I also cut some of the aluminum material out of what appeared to be the chimney for heat to escape. These two tactics with the afternoon breeze at this location greatly improved the fridge performance.
I have not heard of any problems with this unit until now but will be monitoring any progress towards a remedy from Keystone/Norcold.
RMc

[Snoking]

Now on 7 it will get below freezing in the fridge area. The freezer will keep ice cream, and stays at 0 deg F to -5 deg F.

There in is the problem. To keep ice cream the fridge area freezes pop cans, milk etc. Our solution given the 5th wheel in now not leaving it's site, was in buy a small chest freeze for that shed. Shopping at Costco is easier with the additional freezer space. We spend about 4.5 to 5 months in the summer months in the 5th wheel. Chris

[EMTPRescue]

So it looks like everyone hibernated for the winter because the last series of posts on this subject were last June/July. Since then I have reached out to other RV fridge repair businesses in my quest for greater understanding of the problems that most if not all of us have experienced in varying degrees of dysfunction.

The bottom line is that the Norcold 2118 fridge was built with too small of a cooling unit, period, full stop, drop the mic. As the old saying goes, you can't make a silk purse out of a sow's rear end. The poor design requires the fridge to run longer to accomplish the desired temperatures and further results in the unit simply getting behind the curve when it gets hot outside.

Having said all of this, I did discover some very interesting errors that are commonly committed by RV Manufactures in the installation of RV fridges.

First, the cavity into which the fridge sits is often too large. The larger cavity provides for space between the outside surface of the fridge and the inner wall of the cavity. What I have been told as a MUST DO is that the sides and the top of the fridge must NOT have this dead air space. Those areas must be insulated to protect the fridge from higher external air temps. Net result is the greater the box is insulted that longer it can maintain the internal temperature that the cooling unit is working to provide. Don't block the air flow out of your RV's fridge roof vent if your RV has such a configuration but do make certain the fridge is very well insulated.

Secondly and here is the interesting one, I a couple of posts back I mentioned that I had found a piece of sheet metal that Keystone had stapled to the inner surface of the exterior wall of our fridge cavity. I was mystified as to how that piece of sheet metal could be of benefit as it was the full width of the upper ventilation opening access point and blocked off about the bottom 1/3 of the available ventilation opening. I removed it. Turns out I was making things worse and not better. Though not correctly designed by Keystone, the purpose for that piece of sheet metal is to force the cooling air coming from the bottom of the cavity to flow through the set of fins that can be seen at the top of the fridge's cooling unit. Those fins are attached to the fridges Condenser assemble. They fins are releasing heat that is generated by the boiler and every cubic inch of air that is coming up from the bottom of the cavity MUST be directed to flow through those fins. The higher the volume of comparatively cooler air that is forced through those fins the more heat that can be withdrawn from the gas that is within the cooling unit's tubes.

So, what needs to be done is that piece of sheet metal MUST be configured/mounted in such a way that it attaches to the inner surface of the exterior wall of the cavity far below the height of the aforementioned Condenser fins. The piece of sheet metal must be the full width of the cavity. Once it is attached to the wall then by virtue of a full longitudinally length bend in it, it is then attached the back/outer most surface of the Condenser fins. With this configuration, you have essentially created an air flow directional diverter that will by design, ensure that every cubic inch of cooler air is directed through those fins and that most importantly, NO AIR is allowed to just simply flow past the fins.

There is an RV fridge aftermarket repair shop in Kentucky that makes these as a kit and in the installation instructions, he provides a photo that shows his kit attached to the Condenser fin assembly by way of Zip ties. His kit covers the entire outer most surface of the Condenser fin assembly from top to bottom. All the upward moving cooler air MUST then flow through the entire Condenser assembly in order to escape out the upper vent access opening.

For added cooling air volume, feel free to install additional ventilation fans either to the outer most surface of those fins if the sheet metal is not fully covering them or above them if the upper vent access is higher then the height of the fins. The preferable location is above the fins so as to ensure that the fans are pulling air through the entire Condenser fin assembly. Have the fans thermostatically controlled like I did and have them blow the hot air out of the top of the compartment through the upper access grill cover. I have mine set at 100F on and 90F off.

What I have learned is that the fridge manufacturers specify that the space between the back of the cooling unit of the fridge and the inner surface of the fridge cavity must NOT exceed more than 1/2". Anymore of a gap and the free air space back there will allow an unacceptable amount of upward moving cooler air to just simply flow freely PAST and not THROUGH the Condenser unit as flowing past is naturally the path of least resistance. If this is allowed to happen then the fridge can not transfer heat from inside the fridge as effectively which equates to longer and more costly run times. If the fridge itself is not insulated properly on the sides and the top then the fridge loses the internal cooler air more rapidly and of course, the resultant effect again are more and longer run cycles to cool it down again. This is a bigger problem when your fridge is in a slide as more often than not, one on the fridge's side walls abuts the side wall of the slide. The lack of insulation on that wall, that can potentially be exposed to the sun, just furthers to rob the fridge of the internal cooled air.

Hope this helps you to get every BTU of cooling out of your already challenged Norcold 2118.

When I have finished with my diverter installation, I will post again as to what my results were.

Good Luck

[rbinbc]

I'm trying to find a vent cover for the Norcold 2118, the Keystone part number is different. Need some help finding this part.

[EMTPRescue]

I got more indepth information on the Norcold so called Defrost Cycle.
It is very simplistic. The control board has a timer built into it. From the time that you turn your fridge on the timer begins to count down starting at 48 hrs.
Once the timer is at zero the fridge goes to sleep and looks for a temperature change indication from the Thermaster that is clipped to the cooling fins in the fridge section.
Once the control board sees a temperature change then in theory any frost build up on those fins should have melted and the fridge starts up again.
Where we are we have low relative humidity and we do not have a fin frost up problem. Accordingly we have no need for a Defrost Cycle.
The RV fridge tech that told me about the defrost timer suggested that we turn our fridge on at a time when we know that we are at the trailer. He suggested first thing in the morning.
He then said that in order to "defeat" the defrost cycle that our morning routine not only will include our morning coffee but it should include simply turning the fridge off and on again. This resets the timer to 48 hrs and the count down starts all over again.

Hope this helps.

[EMTPRescue]

Frank quick reply to a year ago when you told me about the Norcold defrost cycle. I have found out that indeed there a defrost cycle albeit very simplistic. The fridge controller has a clock/timer in it that begins to count downwards from 48hrs each time fridge is turn on. Once it reaches 0 the timer shuts the fridge off and monitors the thermistor. Once it sees a temperature change from the thermistor then the fridge turns back on and the clock begins to count down from 48hrs all over again. It was suggested to me that as we live in a low relative humidity environment and as such we seldom have fridge fin frost development that I simply turn our fridge off and on again every morning when we get up. That will start the clock at 48hrs each morning and it will never count to 0.This is a work around for those folks who don't want their fridges shutting off to so called defrost if they don't have frost build up issues

[EMTPRescue]

So I promised the results from my having put the diversion sheet metal back in the upper fridge cavity. I also enhanced the diversion design and placed another piece of sheet at about a 30 degree angle to the right of the upper condenser coils and directed the top of that sheet metal piece towards the bottom right hand corner of the condenser coil fins.

Though it is not warm up here yet with our day times not yet regularly exceeding +15C, our fridge now pulls down to -18C in the freezer and +1C in the fridge while set at 2. With my IR aiming temperature device I measure -24.5C at middle bolts on the back of the freezer section and -2C at the thermistor in the fridge section.

This is very acceptable cooling performance but the problem remains with the length of the run cycles and the frequency of those cycles. Simply put, I have done everything that can be done to this unit and though in these cooler outside temps it is cooling to acceptable temperatures, it is very obvious to me now that the cooling unit is in fact far too small for 18cu ft of fridge/freezer volume.

It had after all the same cooling unit as Norcold's 12 cuft dbl door fridge with higher wattage 120V AC heating element and higher BTU LPG burners. A Volkswagen will never do the job of a Porsche 911 no matter what you do to it.

I am going to save my allowance and ultimately change the cooling unit to the JC 12VDC compressor style cooling unit or perhaps the much larger capacity, gas absorption unit that they have made for these 2118.

Again, the silk purse out of a sows rear end scenario.

Hope all my lengthy posts have been by all reading to be informative and helpful.

Have pleasurable and rewarding RV season.

[chuckster57]

We have replaced 2 norcold 2118 cooling units with this AC powered unit. I will say the freezer was COLD in less than 15 minutes. Onlyh drawback is it requires 110VAC for the compressor.

https://jc-refrigeration.com/

[captcolour]

Our new Solitude came with the Norcold 2118SST. Will be interesting to look at the installation once I recover from my knee replacement surgery.


EMTPRescue: Can you post pictures of your modifications? Would be helpful to me and probably others. Thanks.

[chuckster57]

Our new Solitude came with the Norcold 2118SST. Will be interesting to look at the installation once I recover from my knee replacement surgery.


EMTPRescue: Can you post pictures of your modifications? Would be helpful to me and probably others. Thanks.
I worked at a Grand Designs dealer for 5+ years and never had an issue from installation.

[EMTPRescue]

So finally some very unusually hot summer temps up here in the great white north. Last week we had three days in the low 90s. Not hot by most of your standards but very rare up here.

Our 2118 kept the freezer at -15C and the fridge at the cooling fins at +3C. The challenge remains with run cycle times.

I ran it on LPG exclusively just to see how much propane it would use. As per normal the fridge ran virtually full time with maybe half an hour in total cycling off over night. I got 5 full days and about half of the sixth day on of a full 30lb LPG tank. At about $1.00/lb cost for propane that equates to more than $5.00/day just to run the fridge. As with everything else with this fridge, that is unacceptable.

While the cooling fins in the fridge were at +3C the fresh food crispers were much higher and as such, all of the fruit/vegetables had to be tossed away after the five day trial.

I am done with this fridge. I am now searching the big box stores for a residential three door fridge. I know some of you had made the change. I would appreciate some input as to what brand you guys chose and why.

I have 900+ watts of solar, 425AH of battery, 4500 watt genset and 4000 watt full sinewave invertor so I feel confident in being able to boon dock with a residential style fridge and keep it running.

[JRTJH]

EMTPRescue,

In the interim, until you can find a replacement residential refrigerator and modify your trailer to power that change, have you considered a "inside the box refrigerator fan" ??

You can buy one for about $30 (maybe even less) at any RV parts store or on Amazon. There are "D cell battery" powered fans that will run most of the camping season on two batteries. They make a significant difference in moving cool air around inside the refrigerator and I found that even on my smaller Dometic refrigerator, the fan distributes the cool air throughout the entire refrigerator section, eliminating all the "hot spots" in the lower sections and in the corners behind boxes and jugs of milk....

While maybe not a permanent solution, it may "limp you though the hot summer" and give you enough time to make the mod conveniently rather than being forced into a "rush job to keep camping this summer"....

[EMTPRescue]

Thanks for the reply.

If you get a chance check out this entire blog.

I have done all the aftermarket re-engineered operational enhances knowen to man.

Fans X four in the fridge cavity.

Fans X three in the back with sheet metal deflectors to ensure that air flows past the rear cooling evaperator coli.

I have the fridge running at the best it can do.

It just can't keep up.

Thanks

[sourdough]

Be sure and measure the dimensions of any prospective new fridge. I believe the RVs come with "counter depth" models and are not as deep as a "regular" fridge (or non countertop).

[KOZKO]

Where is the best location for additional fans? Which way to aim, up or down? Currently I have 1 extra fan near the thermistor blowing down because the factory fan that’s inside is sucking out, I thought this made kind of a loop inside?? Another question where is the coldest part of the refrigerator?

[Javi]

Be sure and measure the dimensions of any prospective new fridge. I believe the RVs come with "counter depth" models and are not as deep as a "regular" fridge (or non countertop).

Here is the fridge for my Avalanche

[flybouy]

Where is the best location for additional fans? Which way to aim, up or down? Currently I have 1 extra fan near the thermistor blowing down because the factory fan that’s inside is sucking out, I thought this made kind of a loop inside?? Another question where is the coldest part of the refrigerator?

Your fan question is confusing to me. If you are talking about fans for the outside air then they should be blowing in the same direction. Typically up as hot air rises so it will be easier to "help" it go up. A fan on the interior should be located at the lowest part of the interior. Hot air rises so cold air falls and will "pool" in areas at the bottom that are isolated or blocked from allowing the air to circulate via convection. A small battery operated fan in the bottom of the fridge blowing up can make a difference IF it's not so packed full of food that the air cannot move.

One note about fans and cooling fins. Faster is not necessarily better. In extremes it's possible to add so much speed that the fins do not have time to transfer the heat to the air. I'm no thermodynamics or aeronautical engineer but it's common sense that just accelerating the air speed doesn't necessarily equate to increased efficiency. You can often increase efficiency by increasing airflow by eliminating turbulence i.e. directing the airflow over a more streamlined path that doesn't add resistance and turbulence. So bottom line is if you think adding an extra fan will help go for it as it most likely will. If you think one fan is good so adding 6 more will be even better than maybe not.

[jasin1]

I got more indepth information on the Norcold so called Defrost Cycle.
It is very simplistic. The control board has a timer built into it. From the time that you turn your fridge on the timer begins to count down starting at 48 hrs.
Once the timer is at zero the fridge goes to sleep and looks for a temperature change indication from the Thermaster that is clipped to the cooling fins in the fridge section.
Once the control board sees a temperature change then in theory any frost build up on those fins should have melted and the fridge starts up again.
Where we are we have low relative humidity and we do not have a fin frost up problem. Accordingly we have no need for a Defrost Cycle.
The RV fridge tech that told me about the defrost timer suggested that we turn our fridge on at a time when we know that we are at the trailer. He suggested first thing in the morning.
He then said that in order to "defeat" the defrost cycle that our morning routine not only will include our morning coffee but it should include simply turning the fridge off and on again. This resets the timer to 48 hrs and the count down starts all over again.

Hope this helps.

Are you sure the board doesn’t look for a certain value on the thermistor and that triggers the timer to restart? It seems it would make more sense to operate like almost every other kind of defrost in the refrigeration and hvac industry whereas every time the timer counts down (48 hours in this case) the board looks for either a open klixon switch in some cases or thermistor value in this case and if it sees it it will initiate the defrost.
In this case it would be to shut off the refrigerator until the value of the thermistor changes..if the board counted down and saw the desired value it would just restart the timer

[KOZKO]

Sorry about the confusion my question is about fan location inside the refrigerator itself.

[travelin texans]

It seems to me you may have some other fridge issues.
Using 7 gallons (30# bottle) in 5 days seems very excessive just running the fridge. Running my furnace, which is about as inefficient as it gets, a 30lber would last about a week.

[MotoDad293]

The Norcold 2128 has been the biggest issues in my '21 351 Raptor. For the first 2ish months no issues. Then the one and only time I go to an RV park (99.99% of the time I boondock) the fridge goes dead. Quick realize the 3 amp fuse on the circuit board blew.

Swap fuse and the fridge just never cooled the same again. Finally got super frustrated with that about a month ago. Start doing the research and learn a lot about absorption fridges. Pull the outside trap doors and sure enough the top 2 fans not working. Remove the thermoswitch to confirm that is not the issue. Fans dead. Ordered 8 fans on Amazon. Not the Norcold ones at $70 each but higher RPM, IP67 compliant fans. All 8 for like $70.

When I received the fans, I pull the fridge out. I swap out the top 2 that are not working with 2 new ones. Replace the bottom one with another 2. Then in the middle of the fridge is an aluminium support bar, I mounted 4 there. All wired together off the switch. Air flow from bottom to top. I then add some insulation to the top to force the air out the top vent. Put everything back and within 4-6 hours the fridge was back to normal operating temps. And that was a very hot day in SoCal too!

The trailer has sat in storage since but today I go back to fire up the fridge to prepare for a week road trip in the 5er.

I also got the Accurite wireless thermometer to moniter the freezer and fridge temps.

EDIT: and mine is a propane pig too!! for a minute I thought I had a propane leak somewhere. but now I think the fridge is not propane efficient.