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View Full Version : 5 years on tires - MUST REPLACE


jerseyphil
09-28-2019, 03:21 AM
So, here goes my HORROR story!
This past July, my wife and I went on a cross-country trip...NJ to California and back.
OF COURSE, I read all the posts saying you must change your tires after 5 years, but being a smart *** that I am, I looked over the tires, saw NO cracks whatsoever, (I mean really scrutinized them), and decided to go with them.
BIG MISTAKE!
TWO BLOWOUTS LATER, near Carlisle, Pennsylvania, limping into a rest stop on a Sunday night, I assessed the damage. Significant damage.
Both plastic skirts....gone.
Body work on 1 side mangled.
In the wheel wells, the insulation torn out leaving the plywood bare underneath on both sides, since I had 1 blowout on each side.
Someone at the rest stop had a phone number of "John's Mobile RV Service".
Called them. They couldn't come out until Monday morning.
They came. Took all 5 wheels off my RV, brought them to their shop, put on FIVE 12-ply rated Gladiator tires (don't know how good they are, but they were the best they had).

At the next RV Park, I went to Lowes and bought a 4 x 8 sheet of 2" thick styrofoam and 3" wide gorilla tape. I repaired the underneath.

SO....BOTTOM LINE.
It doesn't matter how good your tires look, or how few miles are on them.
Don't be a jerk like I was. Be Smart.
FIVE YEARS - REPLACE THOSE TIRES.

notanlines
09-28-2019, 04:14 AM
Phil, there are those who will follow your advice, and then there are those who will post these same stories as yours down the road. I also might change that time period to reflect more along the lines of three-four years unless the brand has the word 'King' in it. Then we swap to the word 'immediately!'

busterbrown
09-28-2019, 04:36 AM
Yep, very typical of a blowout event. Service life in my book is 3-5 years on ST tires, no matter the condition or miles. I like the insurance of replacing after a "3 seasons of use" mark. Prevention is instrumental with trailer tires.

Also to note, reserve carrying (load) capacity is something that can help mitigate failures as ST tires age. Having this reserve capacity will help a tire last through those service years.

jerseyphil
09-28-2019, 05:22 AM
Thanks for your replies.

Phil

Lee
09-28-2019, 05:30 AM
Please post make/model of blown out tires.

Do you have a TPMS?

Thanks,
Lee

Ken / Claudia
09-28-2019, 12:03 PM
Also what was the build date on the tires? If you do not know they could have been years old already when you brought them.

Hblick48
09-28-2019, 01:03 PM
Yep, very typical of a blowout event. Service life in my book is 3-5 years on ST tires, no matter the condition or miles. I like the insurance of replacing after a "3 seasons of use" mark. Prevention is instrumental with trailer tires.

Also to note, reserve carrying (load) capacity is something that can help mitigate failures as ST tires age. Having this reserve capacity will help a tire last through those service years.

And that's why I went from load range E to F when I replaced my tires. Of course, I also had to buy new rims since the original ones weren't rated for the air pressure needed for the higher load range.

CWtheMan
09-28-2019, 02:20 PM
Throughout the tire industry there are areas where one can research tire life expectancies and find feedback for 3-10 years. Those expectations differ with basic tire design such a Passenger, Light Truck and Special Trailer tires. Mileage tires seem the get the highest time limit recommendations.

Being an “age out” tire the Special Trailer tire (ST) was for many years given a 3-5 year life expectancy. The load it’s expected to support each day plays a significant role in just how long it’s going to last. Other factors are present such as being operated very close to its limit at speeds very close to its limit. They will degrade faster to a point they can no longer support the load they are carrying.

One of the factors in the life expectancy of ST tires is their low speed rating. It’s much better now than it was before the manufacturers added speed letters or MPH limit identifications on the tire sidewalls. Any ST tire without a speed identification displayed on its sidewall is mandated to a maximum speed of 65 MPH. The ST tire’s speed rating is telling us a little something about its ability to carry the load it’s designed to carry. That’s the tires maximum load shown on the tire sidewall. Properly inflated it will carry that load up to and including its speed restriction. Above that speed restriction the tire will start degrading and increase the percentage of degrading with every MPH above the limit.

The real bottom line is tire history and an owner’s knowledge of that history and how the tire was maintained.

busterbrown
09-28-2019, 07:28 PM
And that's why I went from load range E to F when I replaced my tires. Of course, I also had to buy new rims since the original ones weren't rated for the air pressure needed for the higher load range.

I did something similar; went from a ST205/75/14 LRC tire to a ST225/75/15 LRE. Everything the frame rails has been changed out for something bigger and more robust (springs, axles, hangers, tires, and wheels). Failures with any of these components can be vacation ending when your 2500 miles away from home. I worry less now on the road. :)

jadatis
09-28-2019, 11:38 PM
@ topicstarter.
Can you give me weight of TT ( its a TT???) . And specifications of tires.
Then I will calculate a safe pressure for you with my made extra safe calculator and system.
Give tirespecs of old and new then.


If tires have been damaged only once by overheating, they look fine, but mechanical forces distroy them slowly , until mayby only after 3 years, that much damage that they blow or treath seperation.

Additional methode to check the tires yourselfes, is to hammer the treath, and yudge the sound, if gavaties are underneath the surface.

Then together with a high enaugh tirepressure, 6 to 10 years after first use is possible.

If a professional checks them, question is , if he also only checkes the outside, so not better then you.

jerseyphil
09-29-2019, 02:42 AM
I have to get some facts together before I fully reply to some of the questions. It is early Sunday morning here in NJ and still dark.

Some of the info re: tires that blew will embarrass me, but..... whatever.
I bought the 5th wheel RV, a 2011 Keystone Cougar 318SAB, in October, 2010. That means it is now 9 years old.
YES, the original tires, were the ones that blew. I told you it would be embarrassment. They were Towmax China bombs. I try to find better info on them. I think I wrote it down.
The 5th wheel was rated about 9200 lbs empty, so loaded up, I probably at 13 to 14 thousand lbs.

I get info on the new tires in a little while.
Thanks for the interest and comments by everyone.

Phil

jerseyphil
09-29-2019, 02:45 AM
I just read my last reply.

My typing stinks. Sounds like I need some writing lessons.
And, English is my first and only language.

jerseyphil
09-29-2019, 04:19 AM
23860

23861
New tires - Gladiator ST235/80R16
12 PLY RATING / LOAD INDEX 125/121N

Tried to attach photos.
Don't know if it worked.

flybouy
09-29-2019, 04:34 AM
Well looks like you learned a hard and expensive lesson. Thankfully no one was injured. I'm surprised you only lost 2 tires. When one tire fails a great deal of the load it was carrying get's transferred to the other tire(s). Keep us posted on how those new tires perform.

jerseyphil
09-29-2019, 04:47 AM
23862

YES - very hard and expensive lesson.

JRTJH
09-29-2019, 05:48 AM
I have to get some facts together before I fully reply to some of the questions. It is early Sunday morning here in NJ and still dark.

...I bought the 5th wheel RV, a 2011 Keystone Cougar 318SAB, in October, 2010. ...
The 5th wheel was rated about 9200 lbs empty, so loaded up, I probably at 13 to 14 thousand lbs...Phil

To set the record straight, here's the specs on the 2011 Cougar 318SAB from the Keystone website:
Empty weight: 9495
Cargo weight: 2485
Pin weight (empty): 1580

That would give a GVW of 11980

With these "facts", to state that the trailer was "probably at 13 to 14 thousand lbs" would mean that the trailer was significantly overloaded as well as being supported on "9 year old OEM tires"...

At this point, maybe it's all speculation, but I'd suggest a "true and accurate weight" before going much further. Why? Even with the strongest tires available, all you're doing, if you are exceeding the trailer GVW by as much as 2000 pounds, is moving the weakest link from the tires to another structural component.

The issue, IMHO, is to keep the trailer within its "design criteria and design limitations" not to "make things OK by assuring the new tires won't blow if the trailer is significantly overloaded beyond the GVW".....

If your trailer is "loaded to 13 or 14 thousand lbs" with a GVW of 11980, you're going to have troubles again, possibly in an area that causes significantly more damage than "just a blown tire and wheelwell damage". You could possibly break a pinbox, lose an axle at towing speed, have the trailer "break in the middle" from being overloaded, or heaven knows what.... I'd urge a CAT scale weight before going any further, hopefully your estimate of 13 or 14 thousand lbs is "way wrong".....

You have definitely "solved your tire problems" with such heavy duty tires, but what have you done for the "real problem of being overloaded" ???

Dhuhn
09-29-2019, 07:37 AM
23860

23861
New tires - Gladiator ST235/80R16
12 PLY RATING / LOAD INDEX 125/121N

Tried to attach photos.
Don't know if it worked.

I had a set of gladiators only lasted 2 years the tread started to separate luckily I caught before a blowout, switched out for Saliun . I would keep an eye on them hopefully you wont have that problem with them.

jadatis
09-29-2019, 08:42 AM
I compared the 235/80R16 in goodyear list .
Your tire is realy calculated in maxload for 87mph belonging to N speedrated.

The ST of Goodyear has 3960 lbs maxload is loadindex 128 so 3 li steps higher , so 3x10 kmph lower speed is 110 kmph 65mph is 104kmph.
The unisteel G614 in that same document is LT , calculated for 160 kmph/99mph. so would mean 2 LI steps lower , has 3415 lbs at 95 psi.
This is loadindex 123, so 2 li steps lower then yours, and so exactly in line with my determined system( 160-140 = 2x10kmph so 2 li steps lower.

So when I get your real weight, and there is still daubt about it, I can calculate a highest pressure with no screws bumping loose, and livetime of 6 to 10 years.

Your original tires lasted 9 years, so I understand.

.

jerseyphil
09-29-2019, 10:58 AM
I don't know what the actual loaded weight was.
I just threw those numbers out there.
A scale would help.

notanlines
09-29-2019, 11:07 AM
I'm afraid there will no formula that will convince me of a " livetime of 6 to 10 years" on ANY ST tire. YMMV

travelin texans
09-29-2019, 12:37 PM
I just read my last reply.

My typing stinks. Sounds like I need some writing lessons.
And, English is my first and only language.

Definitely turn on the spell check feature!!!!
That last post was a bit difficult to read.

CWtheMan
09-29-2019, 10:47 PM
I don't know what the actual loaded weight was.
I just threw those numbers out there.
A scale would help.

It's very unusual to see specs on a 2011 Keystone trailer with original equipment 16" wheels and tires with far more than needed load capacity. According to the trailer's specs it has 5200# certified axles. Keystone hardly ever exceed the axles load capacity with that much load capacity reserves.

Those Gladiators being LRF should last a long time on that trailer provided they are not road damaged.

The valve stems and wheels need to be rated for the maximum PSI rating of the tires (95 PSI).

I think it's fair to note that one of the ST tire brands that takes a beating around the net (TowMax) lasted that long. It supports my long standing theory that sufficient load capacity reserves is sometimes all a tire needs for it to compete with other like sized tire brands.

jadatis
09-30-2019, 01:26 AM
I'm afraid there will no formula that will convince me of a " livetime of 6 to 10 years" on ANY ST tire. YMMV

In Europe where I live ( the Netherlands) LT tires ( called C(omercial)-tires) are used on traveltrailers, and nowadays with comfortable reserve.
Generally they last at least 6 years, and research here came to after 7 years failure ratio larger,

Michelin and other tiremakers write to let your tires be checked by a professional , every year after 6 years of use, and preventively change them after 10 years of use. Dutch VACO ( respected institute) writes the same, and dont even give that 10 years, and writes that 2 years of proffessional storing before use can be sold as new tire. So sometimes even only after 12 years after DOT date , renewing of tires.
I mean to have found the system that calculates pressure that high , with maximum reserve, but still no bumping, so livetime is as long as possible.

For ST I substract 6 loadindex steps to give the tire a deflection, so heatproduction, as if it was calculated for 160kmph/99mph, and first add 11.1 % to the weighed load or GAWR( to make real weight 90% average of weight the pressure is calculated for), before putting it in my determined extra safe formula, based on the official one ( I once got hold of and went running with)and an article of a American IR J.C. Daws , and so the pressure part of durability of tire is covered.

But also protection for UV light and Ozon, are factors, and alignment must be right so not one side of tire wears off. And you can always have a puncture.

In my former post I proved for 99% that topicstarters new tires are calculated in maxload realy for N speedrated 87mph , so only have to substract 2 LI steps.

The Goodyear Endurance , to wich I compared them, is maxspeed 87mph, but yust as the old ST calculated for 65mph in its maxload ( a bit higher to my discovered system 110kmph/?mph.)

And that is to my opinion and conclusions the reason why the old ST had such high failure-rate, and 3 to 4 years renewing became normal.
Yust a bit more speed or load or a bit to low pressure, or combination of that all , and the tire overheats.

To be able to use the pressure behind AT and not higher( not allowed anymore, in earlyer days was allowed) for the ST general you even need about 35% reserve to the GAWR.

{tpc}
09-30-2019, 04:37 AM
I often see these posts and the ones the follow about repairing the trailer, but I don't often see if insurance covers this type of expense or not. So for those that have had the unfortunate event happen, did you attempt to claim under your insurance, or was it just better (cost-wise) to take care of the repair yourself?

Roscommon48
09-30-2019, 04:49 AM
'ply' rating is so... dated:-)


today it is load rating. just saying.
'These days, tire ply rating is more commonly expressed as “load range.”'


bottom line is about every 5 years get new tires.

notanlines
09-30-2019, 05:05 AM
Tony, many of us on this forum (Sourdough and myself for sure) have had our friendly agent take care of the repairs. Ours was the Geico agent a few years ago and he wrote the check on the spot for about $9K. I'm sure others will chime in.

jadatis
09-30-2019, 05:26 AM
'ply' rating is so... dated:-)


today it is load rating. just saying.
'These days, tire ply rating is more commonly expressed as “load range.”'


bottom line is about every 5 years get new tires.

In Europe plyrating is the commonly used system still.
And picture of label that jerseyphill gave also only gives 12 plyrated.
12 plyrated is same as F-load/LRF and is calculated in maxload for 95 psi standard, though in Europe there are exeptions.

my bottom line is 7 to 8 years replacement to be on the safe side, and taking good care of the tire, the way I wrote already.

Also better for the invironment , old tires are hard to recicle.

jerseyphill, did I understand right, that your failed tires where the original from the TT and so 8 years under it before the blew.
And did you only check on crackes, or also inspected the Treath?

sonofcy
09-30-2019, 07:34 AM
I'm afraid there will no formula that will convince me of a " livetime of 6 to 10 years" on ANY ST tire. YMMV
If you switch to 19.5 commercial grade tires on new 8 or 10 stud hubs 6 to 7 years is the warranty.

notanlines
09-30-2019, 08:00 AM
If you switch to 19.5 commercial grade tires on new 8 or 10 stud hubs 6 to 7 years is the warranty.
I suspect you have never stood by your RV looking at $9K in damage as a result of two blowouts on two of the infamous China-bombs. And yes, they were less than 2 years old. We run Goodyear 614's on the Suites and they also will be replaced at five years. It gives me a 'warm-all-over' feeling.:D

sonofcy
09-30-2019, 08:47 AM
I suspect you have never stood by your RV looking at $9K in damage as a result of two blowouts on two of the infamous China-bombs. And yes, they were less than 2 years old. We run Goodyear 614's on the Suites and they also will be replaced at five years. It gives me a 'warm-all-over' feeling.:D
Thankfully I have not had that experience, and thankfully my Montana came with G rated Goodyear 614's. I have considered going to 8k axles, disc brakes, BOAR 195 wheels with Continental HS3 maybe even H rated but for now am taking the cheraper route of getting our weight down. So far weight reduction is working and will reweigh tomorrow.

notanlines
09-30-2019, 05:23 PM
Son, you would never regret the disk brake conversion!
By the way, the blowouts were on our Raptor.

Fishsizzle
09-30-2019, 11:18 PM
Ironically, buddy just sent me this today. 4 yr old tires.

I’d also been dreaming of 8k axles, disc brakes and H tires.

And... have been frustrated with “load range” that refers to ply rating, which means almost nothing as 12 ply doesn’t mean 12 plys, rather 2 plys equivalent to 12 plys in strength.

Load index, just figuring that out and I worked in a tire store 25 yrs ago!

jerseyphil
10-02-2019, 02:57 AM
To set the record straight, here's the specs on the 2011 Cougar 318SAB from the Keystone website:
Empty weight: 9495
Cargo weight: 2485
Pin weight (empty): 1580

That would give a GVW of 11980

With these "facts", to state that the trailer was "probably at 13 to 14 thousand lbs" would mean that the trailer was significantly overloaded as well as being supported on "9 year old OEM tires"...

At this point, maybe it's all speculation, but I'd suggest a "true and accurate weight" before going much further. Why? Even with the strongest tires available, all you're doing, if you are exceeding the trailer GVW by as much as 2000 pounds, is moving the weakest link from the tires to another structural component.

The issue, IMHO, is to keep the trailer within its "design criteria and design limitations" not to "make things OK by assuring the new tires won't blow if the trailer is significantly overloaded beyond the GVW".....

If your trailer is "loaded to 13 or 14 thousand lbs" with a GVW of 11980, you're going to have troubles again, possibly in an area that causes significantly more damage than "just a blown tire and wheelwell damage". You could possibly break a pinbox, lose an axle at towing speed, have the trailer "break in the middle" from being overloaded, or heaven knows what.... I'd urge a CAT scale weight before going any further, hopefully your estimate of 13 or 14 thousand lbs is "way wrong".....

You have definitely "solved your tire problems" with such heavy duty tires, but what have you done for the "real problem of being overloaded" ???

AFTER I READ THIS, I decided to take a close look at what I was carrying. The MOST I was carrying was about 2000 lbs. That includes everything, fresh water, stuff in pickup bed, stuff in storage areas, etc., so if my empty weight is about 9500 lbs, I was about 11,500, not 13 or 14 thousand.
Sorry about throwing that in to panic people!!

Northofu1
10-02-2019, 03:11 AM
I couldn't fathom carrying 2000 lbs with me (in a non toy hauler)for a trip. Not that there's anything wrong with it.

JRTJH
10-02-2019, 09:05 AM
AFTER I READ THIS, I decided to take a close look at what I was carrying. The MOST I was carrying was about 2000 lbs. That includes everything, fresh water, stuff in pickup bed, stuff in storage areas, etc., so if my empty weight is about 9500 lbs, I was about 11,500, not 13 or 14 thousand.
Sorry about throwing that in to panic people!!

I'd still recommend a "true and accurate" weight by visiting a CAT scale and get some "objective weights" rather than relying on ""a close look at what I was carrying" (which is still a 'best guess' kind of weight).

The only way you'll know for sure what your trailer, truck and rig weigh, and what weight is actually on the tires and king pin is to tow it across an accurate scale.

rickhz
10-03-2019, 10:20 AM
The simple solution to address the issue of massive damage from tire blowouts is for the factory to install steel or heavy gauge aluminum wheel wells which would protect the body, the propane lines and electrical wiring. It's beyond ridiculous that DOT and NHSTA allow this crap to roll down the road as is.

Northofu1
10-03-2019, 10:28 AM
I second that emotion. We need another Ralph Nader.

66joej
10-03-2019, 01:31 PM
I second that emotion. We need another Ralph Nader.

Agreed but after the success he had with the Corvair he may just get all RVs pulled off the road and then where would we be?:lol::lol::lol:

GMcKenzie
10-03-2019, 01:51 PM
I must have the biggest horseshoe you know where. I replaced my original tires last spring, so 8 years and the only issue I had was the valves leaked badly year 1.

They needed replacing this year, but yeah. 8 years on towkings.

Bumped up to load range E and 75mph rating. so I should be good for 10 yrs this time (kidding).

busterbrown
10-03-2019, 01:57 PM
8 years on towkings.

Miracles do happen! :)

Inspector128
10-03-2019, 03:12 PM
Alright, after two years of being a forum member, this is my first post. When I saw the tire topic, I felt it was time to tell my story. We bought a used 2011 Keystone Copper Canyon (our first) in 2017 from the original owner. Less than a thousand miles on the original tires-no wear, no cracks-they got to be good for one more year? Right???

Date coded from 2010, so that put them at 7 years of age. When you see the attached photos, you'll realize we didn't make it from WI to AZ. I know, I was reading the posts, trying to learn all I could about our 5th wheel. But gosh, I could save $400.00 by getting by another year. Wrong.

Let's see, blew out the propane lines, electric brakes, exterior and undercarriage damage. Boy did I save some money! Took care of the repairs myself-good way to learn the lesson.

Anyway, thanks to you all, this is a great forum and a great teaching tool (when the student wants to learn).

rcashdollar
10-03-2019, 05:14 PM
Okay, you all scared me enough to replace my recently purchased 2014 TT tires, which by the way look to be in great condition. Is it a good idea to go from load range D to E?

Northofu1
10-03-2019, 07:01 PM
Agreed but after the success he had with the Corvair he may just get all RVs pulled off the road and then where would we be?:lol::lol::lol:

Camping in tents,,,,,, oh no:facepalm:

meaz93*
10-03-2019, 07:25 PM
E's will be a better all around tire. I remember replacing all my OEM's on the ole 2010 291KSSR Springdale with E range tires....ride was way better and more stable.[emoji106]23918

jadatis
10-03-2019, 11:04 PM
I must have the biggest horseshoe you know where. I replaced my original tires last spring, so 8 years and the only issue I had was the valves leaked badly year 1.

They needed replacing this year, but yeah. 8 years on towkings.

Bumped up to load range E and 75mph rating. so I should be good for 10 yrs this time (kidding).

The leaking valves possibly because you had external sensors for tmps. Then metal valves or HP rubber snapp in valves are needed to prevent them from bending by centrifugal forces.

So check that ( if ex sensors) with the new tires, or you will get the same problem soon.
Push the valve-end gently sideward, if it bends, it a normal snapp in valve of thr TR 400 series( maxcold 65 to 70 psi) if not the TR600HP series, made to hold in cold pressure of 95 psi( discussion 80 psi ) . Dont assume they used that because E- load, yust check it. And a metal valve can be recocnised because it looks like metal.

Frosty46
10-04-2019, 12:35 AM
I had a too similar story...We went to Michigan last year with our Raptor and at a fuel stop noticed a cracked wheel on one of our aluminum wheels. Hair line crack at the base of one of the "spokes" so after much calling round found a truck repair shop that would change to our unused spare wheel tire. They did so and we almost made it home when the tire literally blew apart wrapping itself around the axle tearing away the under body coverings and insulation and ripping the side body apart. I remember thinking it would be smart to swap the cracked wheel tire (new) with the spare but the tech thought our unused spare would be fine. It had never seen daylight but was ten years old. I've learned that today's tires are designed to come apart after ten years no matter if used on the road or not----------deregulation sure has reaped rewards---for everyone except consumers! I remember tires lasting decades not all that long ago.........

jimborokz
10-04-2019, 01:23 AM
I had a too similar story...We went to Michigan last year with our Raptor and at a fuel stop noticed a cracked wheel on one of our aluminum wheels. Hair line crack at the base of one of the "spokes" so after much calling round found a truck repair shop that would change to our unused spare wheel tire. They did so and we almost made it home when the tire literally blew apart wrapping itself around the axle tearing away the under body coverings and insulation and ripping the side body apart. I remember thinking it would be smart to swap the cracked wheel tire (new) with the spare but the tech thought our unused spare would be fine. It had never seen daylight but was ten years old. I've learned that today's tires are designed to come apart after ten years no matter if used on the road or not----------deregulation sure has reaped rewards---for everyone except consumers! I remember tires lasting decades not all that long ago.........

Age is a bigger factor than mileage as you learned. But use is as large a factor as age. Tires are designed with lubricant in the rubber that is released when they are in use. When a tire sits it dries out and gets dry rot. So a bigger factor is how often the tire is run. If it sets all year and then goes on a trip for two weeks in the summer, that tire is good for maybe 3 years at the most. If you're out there full timing it you could get 10. I had two blowouts in one trip one year and that was on 5 year old tires but the rig had sat in one place for about 9 months prior to that trip. We are half timers and I now go by the 5-7 years rule.

flybouy
10-04-2019, 02:24 AM
Agreed but after the success he had with the Corvair he may just get all RVs pulled off the road and then where would we be?:lol::lol::lol:
I remember when he "busted" the Ma Bell monopoly. That debacle ended up with different companies for local, long distance, maintenance etc. You had to dial more numbers than a bookie dealt with to make a long distance call. The phone bill costs doubled and the phone bill looked like an NFL playbook.
Nader? No thank you. :nonono::nonono::nonono:

jerseyphil
10-04-2019, 05:56 AM
Alright, after two years of being a forum member, this is my first post. When I saw the tire topic, I felt it was time to tell my story. We bought a used 2011 Keystone Copper Canyon (our first) in 2017 from the original owner. Less than a thousand miles on the original tires-no wear, no cracks-they got to be good for one more year? Right???

Date coded from 2010, so that put them at 7 years of age. When you see the attached photos, you'll realize we didn't make it from WI to AZ. I know, I was reading the posts, trying to learn all I could about our 5th wheel. But gosh, I could save $400.00 by getting by another year. Wrong.

Let's see, blew out the propane lines, electric brakes, exterior and undercarriage damage. Boy did I save some money! Took care of the repairs myself-good way to learn the lesson.

Anyway, thanks to you all, this is a great forum and a great teaching tool (when the student wants to learn).

Holy Moly!
I thought my damage was bad. I didn't have propane line and electric brake damage.
Sorry to hear your story. Lots of repair needed.
I was able to continue my journey after my blowouts and getting my 5 new tires. I now feel lucky I didn't sustain even more damage.
I constantly think "What would have happened if the second tire on the same side also blew right after the first one?" WOULD THE TRAILER TIP OVER???
Has anyone experienced that?

And Yes, this is a great forum.

sourdough
10-04-2019, 07:13 AM
Okay, you all scared me enough to replace my recently purchased 2014 TT tires, which by the way look to be in great condition. Is it a good idea to go from load range D to E?

I don't know what trailer you have or the limitations of your wheels (look on the backside for either a psi or weight rating stamped on them - it will tell you if they will take the pressure of the E rated tire. If they will, I would upgrade just because. I did and have been extremely happy with the upgrade. Plus, if it is a 2014 with OEM tires they need to come off "yesterday".

Bamabox
10-04-2019, 10:45 AM
OK I’m convinced. My 2017 21 RBS came with

https://i.ibb.co/2PQYPZx/A215-D9-B8-2-E4-D-4230-B1-C3-2320-EF3-A75-BB.jpg

Westlake. Actually seems like a pretty stout tire, 15” load range E, for the size and weight of the trailer.

https://i.ibb.co/Jk6Ln3z/4-DB8-DC85-E3-E1-470-D-9-DDA-57046-C126251.png

But at the end of the day, they are made in China, next year would be the 4th season on them, low miles but so what. Just not worth the risk. Have seen several youtube vids of people comparing the exact size Westlake to the Goodyear Endurance. Won’t do anything till spring, my season is over, but looks like that is the way I will go in the spring, along with some metal valve stems and perhaps a TPMS.

GMcKenzie
10-04-2019, 10:47 AM
The leaking valves possibly because you had external sensors for tmps. Then metal valves or HP rubber snapp in valves are needed to prevent them from bending by centrifugal forces.



Nope. No TPMS. Just crap valves that wouldn't hold air. Once replaced I had no issues in the next 7 or so years.

66joej
10-04-2019, 11:33 AM
Nope. No TPMS. Just crap valves that wouldn't hold air. Once replaced I had no issues in the next 7 or so years.

Not saying this was your problem. I have used one of these for years and periodically tighten the valve itself into the stem. Can't tell you how many vehicles I have owned including RVs that had poorly seated valves.

Tireman9
10-05-2019, 10:57 AM
The simple solution to address the issue of massive damage from tire blowouts is for the factory to install steel or heavy gauge aluminum wheel wells which would protect the body, the propane lines and electrical wiring. It's beyond ridiculous that DOT and NHSTA allow this crap to roll down the road as is.


As I covered in my RV Tire blog
"Sorry, but IMO trying to "build a shield" just is not a reasonable approach. I doubt that you can spare the 500 or more pounds of steel it would take for the shield and structure to support the shield. Since a failure of a tire can be explosive event a solid wall will not let the force dissipate. You need an open grate. Check out this compilation of exploding tires (https://youtu.be/lRLXeXjLmx8) to see the forces involved. Note that most of these did not involve a tire spinning at 50 to 65 mph which would add significant force to any explosion."


Also there is cost($30 per sq ft) plus the cost and weight to build a support strong enough to prevent the exploding tire from punching through the RV floor and to suppost the weight of the grate as you bounce down the road.



You can see what tire companies (http://www.chunyen.com.tw/CY-6672-s.jpg) have developed to accomplish what you are asking.

jadatis
10-06-2019, 02:24 AM
Nope. No TPMS. Just crap valves that wouldn't hold air. Once replaced I had no issues in the next 7 or so years.

Then still usefull to check the new valves, if the are sutable for the E-load.
Push sideward GENTLY.
If a normal valve of the TR400 series, not an urgent matter, they have test-standards, mildest american standard is that they have to stand a 26 psi higher pressure constant, this for pressure buildup bij higher inside tire temp.

And you probably dont need the full 80 psi, if you game from D-load AT 65 psi.

Still I would demand the HP at least for AT 80 psi tires.

LHaven
10-10-2019, 07:34 AM
Phil, there are those who will follow your advice, and then there are those who will post these same stories as yours down the road. I also might change that time period to reflect more along the lines of three-four years unless the brand has the word 'King' in it. Then we swap to the word 'immediately!'

Ahh, boogers. My rig came off the lot with "Trailer Kings." I'm all the way on the wrong side of the country, and now I have one more thing to worry about. :facepalm:

CWtheMan
10-10-2019, 04:18 PM
I did something similar; went from a ST205/75/14 LRC tire to a ST225/75/15 LRE. Everything the frame rails has been changed out for something bigger and more robust (springs, axles, hangers, tires, and wheels). Failures with any of these components can be vacation ending when your 2500 miles away from home. I worry less now on the road. :)

In tire industry lingo, that's "plus sizing". It invalidates the inflation pressures in the vehicle owner manual, tire placard and what's on the vehicle certification label. Did you set a new recommended cold inflation pressure for the replacement tires? It's a necessary step for vehicle safety reasons.

CWtheMan
10-10-2019, 04:28 PM
Ahh, boogers. My rig came off the lot with "Trailer Kings." I'm all the way on the wrong side of the country, and now I have one more thing to worry about. :facepalm:

Your trailer is in the new era of load capacity reserves for RV trailer tires. You have 4400# axles with tires providing 5660# of load capacity for each axle.

http://trailerkingtires.com/content/trailer%20king/docs/17112017TBCBWARRANTYTrailerKingRSTWarranty0817.pdf

LHaven
10-10-2019, 05:21 PM
Your trailer is in the new era of load capacity reserves for RV trailer tires. You have 4400# axles with tires providing 5660# of load capacity for each axle.



http://trailerkingtires.com/content/trailer%20king/docs/17112017TBCBWARRANTYTrailerKingRSTWarranty0817.pdf



I have no idea what the implications of this are. It sounds like you're saying that the axles and not the tires are my weak point in terms of load rating, but I don't understand how that does or doesn't reflect on that particular brand of tire having a reputation of being defective "China bombs."

CWtheMan
10-10-2019, 09:40 PM
I have no idea what the implications of this are. It sounds like you're saying that the axles and not the tires are my weak point in terms of load rating, but I don't understand how that does or doesn't reflect on that particular brand of tire having a reputation of being defective "China bombs."

Users are not equal. In the past, your OEM tires have been installed on trailers with very little load capacity reserves. Many of the complaining consumers did not know their tires were being abused and when they failed early "it just had to be bad tires". ST tires today, are not the ST tires they were 5 years ago.

I gave you a warranty reference for those tires. Did you read it? It's not just a warranty. It contains information on the care and maintenance of those tires.

All tires on RV trailers are required to carry the maximum load of the vehicle certified axles. Load capacity reserves are derived from the difference between the tire maximum load and the axles maximum load. Axles do not degrade anywhere near as fast as tires. Tires on RV trailers degrade quite rapidly, especially when misused and/or not properly maintained.

You really don't want the tires to be the weakest link. They blow and make a mess of your trailer's wheel wells and those sacrificial fenders.

LHaven
10-11-2019, 09:17 AM
I gave you a warranty reference for those tires. Did you read it? It's not just a warranty. It contains information on the care and maintenance of those tires.

I did pull it up on my iPhone. It looked like ground pepper on a big ol' plate of grits. I'll have to wait till I'm someplace where I can use something with a bigger screen.

skids
10-21-2019, 05:19 AM
I just read my last reply.

My typing stinks. Sounds like I need some writing lessons.
And, English is my first and only language.

It is abbreviated and to the point. :)

skids
10-21-2019, 05:41 AM
The only way you'll know for sure what your trailer, truck and rig weigh, and what weight is actually on the tires and king pin is to tow it across an accurate scale.

Sorry, just catching-up on this thread. Considering tow trailers, does changing the angle of the weight distributing hitch (assuming the scales are a bit of a hump) affect the weights on the axles. Would it be accurate?

Ken / Claudia
10-21-2019, 07:26 AM
My answer is opinion, maybe a little. I have never tested that nor read anyone who did. But would it matter again opinion, no unless your already over loaded. Way above that affecting tires is age, psi, just plain wt. of rv. Tires are not static unless parked. When in motion the load is being pushed down onto them and lifted off non stop. On a road crown 1 side might be pushed down more then the other. What about a pot hole and half of the tire tread maybe is dropped into it and pulled back out putting lots of extra pressure on a tiny part of the tire. I have witnessed trailers with single axle at highway speeds hitting bumps and I could see light under the tire. Think about that pressure as the load reconnects with the road. Bottom line tires get abused, buy good ones, inspect them offton.

flybouy
10-21-2019, 07:31 AM
Sorry, just catching-up on this thread. Considering tow trailers, does changing the angle of the weight distributing hitch (assuming the scales are a bit of a hump) affect the weights on the axles. Would it be accurate?

What scale are you using or considering that has "a bit of a Hump"? The CAT scales I've been to are flat and level.

skids
10-21-2019, 07:47 AM
What scale are you using or considering that has "a bit of a Hump"? The CAT scales I've been to are flat and level.

All I have ever seen were portable scales and they are not even with the ground. If “Cat scales” are at port of entry, I guess they would be flat. Come to think of it, the scales at the gravel pit are flat.

flybouy
10-21-2019, 08:15 AM
All I have ever seen were portable scales and they are not even with the ground. If “Cat scales” are at port of entry, I guess they would be flat. Come to think of it, the scales at the gravel pit are flat.

Most scales at a gravel pit will be problematic to use for determining your weights as they only weight the entire vehicle and not individual axles. Most gravel pits, trash dumps, etc I'm familiar with weigh the truck full, and empty to get the tare and net weights.

The most common portable scales here in the "People's Republic of Maryland" are carried in the back of an Suv with flashing lights on the roof. :hide:

JRTJH
10-21-2019, 08:20 AM
All I have ever seen were portable scales and they are not even with the ground. If “Cat scales” are at port of entry, I guess they would be flat. Come to think of it, the scales at the gravel pit are flat.

I suppose there are as many "old husband methods" of weighing a trailer as there are "old wives methods" of creating a recipe.... What the hell does that have to do with trailer weights ?????? I'll try to explain it the way I understand it.....

I'd guess that some "methods" (portable scales, using the bathroom scale, a 4x4 and a 2" pipe to lever the weight, etc) are significantly less relevant than other methods.... That said, EVERY CAT scale that I've seen is three platforms, aligned with "one way in/one way out" so you can't "off-center the rig". The pads are flat and level, and most any "novice user" can't make a mistake other than pulling too far forward or not pulling forward enough...

The "correct way to weigh a rig" (IMHO) is to drive onto the pads with the front tow vehicle axle on pad #1, the rear tow vehicle axle on pad #2 and the trailer axles on pad #3. Weigh the rig, DO NOT MOVE THE RIG, get out of the truck, loosen (but do not remove) the WD bars, get back in the tow vehicle, weigh the rig. Then pull off the scales, unhitch the truck (leave the WD bars in the hitch, return to the scale, front axle on pad#1, rear axle on pad #2 (try to approximate the same location on the pads if possible) STAY IN THE TRUCK and weigh the tow vehicle.

That will give you the total rig weight, the total trailer weight, the total tow vehicle weight, as well as the total weight being distributed by the WD hitch to the tow vehicle front/rear axles and the total weight of the rig "without" weight distribution. Using simple math, with this data, you can pretty much determine every applicable weight except for individual wheel location weights. You can't accomplish individual wheel weights on any CAT scale. Their company policy is to prohibit that type of weigh process.

Ken / Claudia
10-22-2019, 12:04 PM
The ODOT scales, here many are 1 plate. Still easy, when sitting in the booth you hit the red light after the front axle is on it. Truck stops, there's the axle wt.
With an RV/truck combo, get the front axle on the plate and stop, pull forward get both or only rear axle. Then RV checking axles. Stop when both are on the plate, write down number pull forward with only rear axle on plate. Write down axle wt.s and do some math, it's only adding or subtracting numbers. Come back with empty truck or unhooked truck and your done. If you can see a readout, the wt will jump up/down. Drive slow and after stopping write down the wt. when the numbers stop changing than move again. Want just left or right, if room just drive onto plate with right or left side on the plate. Check with the scale guy and ask him/her how they want it done.

skids
10-27-2019, 07:04 AM
Not saying this was your problem. I have used one of these for years and periodically tighten the valve itself into the stem. Can't tell you how many vehicles I have owned including RVs that had poorly seated valves.

You check the valve core seating with a soapy water test. I do not recommend periodic tightening the valve core seat — unless it leaks. But that’s just me.

Roscommon48
11-20-2019, 05:17 AM
Interesting that this thread was regarding tires and 'five years' when you should replace them to something totally different 4 pages later.


Bottom line, after 5 years seriously look at replacing your tires regardless.

Tireman9
11-20-2019, 07:04 PM
In 40 years as a tire engineer and my 27 years as a amateur and professional race car driver/owner I have never heard of a need to "re-tighten" valve cores on any regular or repeated basis.
This would cover everything from wheel barrow tires to Indianapolis tires.

Once a core is properly installed and tightened to spec ( 1.5 to 5 inch pounds) I see no reason for the core to work lose.


I did a post on my RV Tire Safety blog specifically on the question of valve and valve core leaks and how tight they should be. and how to be reasonably confident you are in spec even without an inch pound torque wrench. Did the post March 22

flybouy
11-21-2019, 08:14 AM
Interesting that this thread was regarding tires and 'five years' when you should replace them to something totally different 4 pages later.


Bottom line, after 5 years seriously look at replacing your tires regardless.

I'm surprised after 70+ posts that we haven't gone to "the best cast iron pie recipe", favorite dog pics, or "my CO sensor keeps going off every time I share my burrito with my dog".

I agree with the 5 year mark as there is NO way to visualise any interior damages that may be occuring within the tire walls. Tires are a consumable and as a consumable that literally EVERYTHING is riding on. I don't think as such it's prudent to take the condition for granted and cheap out on what's most likely the smallest investment overtime that you'll make.