Which Travel Trailer do you recommend?

[Hitsman3]

The wife & i are looking at getting our first Travel Trailer. At the moment we have it narrowed down to a 2020 Cougar Half Ton 22RBSWE & a 2020 Grand Design Imagine XLS 22RBE. What are people's thoughts on these as far as quality, is one better that the other? Who has better customer service in your opinion?

[srvnt]

Grand Designs are very nice, Cougars are nice too, but I would never consider an rv without a big back window or a stove that does not vent outside. I guess its a personal thing. Enjoy the journey folks!:)

[JRTJH]

I'm sure you already have considered these factors, but just to highlight them again:

1. The dealership where you buy is probably as important as the trailer brand you buy. No matter how "good the customer service from the factory" might be, if the dealership won't get you in or if they aren't conveniently located, the factory support doesn't much matter.

2. No matter the trailer brand, chances are good that the appliances, frame, FILON, TPO roofing, holding tanks, vinyl flooring, carpet, wiring, windows, bathroom fixtures, slide mechanisms, aluminum framing, insulation, DARCO, coroplast and all the screws, staples, glue and wiring will be the same, regardless of brand.

3. While cost is a factor, saving $15,000 (on paper) on one brand over $10,000 (also on paper) with another brand, really isn't a $5,000 savings if your trailer sits at a dealership for months while you sit home, wishing you could go camping. So, back to #1, the dealership where you buy.....

[sourdough]

^^^^John pretty much hit the nail on the head. The dealer will be the deciding factor if you think the trailer is "nice/good" or not. If they don't prep the trailer properly before you get it and fix the "kinks", if they don't do a good pdi, if they don't take care of you after the sale....it doesn't matter, if you have problems and you have "that" dealer, you will hate that trailer/manufacturer.

I've looked at the Imagine trailers and they look just like a Keystone; to me. Of course, I'm sure that's because the folks that started Grand Design came from Keystone if I recall (did not recheck) so you sort of get the same thing with a different name - and higher price point due to the hype. IMO the Imagines I looked at did not look as "quality" as a Keystone at a similar price point, and, I know I've said this a thousand times, but I just don't find another manufacturer that makes floorplans as common sense and useable as Keystone.

Do your due diligence, research, ask questions and.....find the floorplan that suits you best. "Quality" of the particular unit you choose will depend on now the assembly line was "feeling" that day...no matter what brand.

[chuckster57]

We sell Grand Designs, the XLS line seems to PDI with very few issues, I would really look close at the floor plan as some are not IMO very “camper” friendly. Us techs are always saying whoever designs these things no matter what brand/floor plan should be required to “live” in it for a week.

[travelin texans]

Maybe your biggest decision is which will your tow vehicle be able handle. Half ton RVs in most cases doesn't mean your half ton truck will be enough. Most so called "half ton towable" RVs is a sales gimmick, so read up on how to calculate the numbers in several posts on this or any other RV forum. The main point being, DO NOT take your RV or truck salesman's word for anything concerning weight carrying capabilities, do your own homework.

[wiredgeorge]

^^^^John pretty much hit the nail on the head. The dealer will be the deciding factor if you think the trailer is "nice/good" or not. If they don't prep the trailer properly before you get it and fix the "kinks", if they don't do a good pdi, if they don't take care of you after the sale....it doesn't matter, if you have problems and you have "that" dealer, you will hate that trailer/manufacturer.

I've looked at the Imagine trailers and they look just like a Keystone; to me. Of course, I'm sure that's because the folks that started Grand Design came from Keystone if I recall (did not recheck) so you sort of get the same thing with a different name - and higher price point due to the hype. IMO the Imagines I looked at did not look as "quality" as a Keystone at a similar price point, and, I know I've said this a thousand times, but I just don't find another manufacturer that makes floorplans as common sense and useable as Keystone.

Do your due diligence, research, ask questions and.....find the floorplan that suits you best. "Quality" of the particular unit you choose will depend on now the assembly line was "feeling" that day...no matter what brand.

As I recall the folks who owned Keystone sold out and had a non-compete agreement in place and as soon as that agreement lapsed, they struck out and started Grand Design.

My two cents.... If this is your first trailer, keep in mind you will be discovering things you like and don't like. For instance, I get up early and my wife likes to sleep in. It would be hard to turn on the TV and drip a cup of coffee with only the curtain separating the bedroom. Next... if you sit on one of those dinette cushions for awhile you will wonder why you didn't buy a camper with a sofa or recliners, etc. I have pulled the dinette out of every camper we have owned and replaced it with a table and chairs and have also pulled out the pull out and make into a bed couch and replaced it with a Lazyboy reclining love seat. Last, if you live where it gets warm, a 50A service and two A/Cs are a priority.

The kitchen in the Cougar looks pretty good and I like no carpet in the living area. Camping and carpet don't make sense to me.

I guess my point is for your first trailer, decide what features you think you need and/or want and find a nice used trailer and after a few camping trips you will probably find that your initial druthers weren't as you might have wished for. You won't be stuck with a huge payment and keep in mind that if you trade in or sell that new trailer, you are going to be way upside down so if you do go new, get it right the first time.

[Retired Copper]

All great advise Hitsman3 from folks that have been at it awhile. This being your first rv, floor plan and how it works for the family So many first timers get the rv and after a short while they realize the floor plan just doesn`t fit the way you use it the most. The others here have touched on all the other stuff like dealership, service department and towing length, size and weight. If all are pretty much equal it gets down to the little things most never even look at. Axles and tire load rating. Size of tanks. Hinges, latches, and fixtures. If that doesn`t always work out just go with the one the DW prefers, if she ain`t happy none is happy.

[Hitsman3]

The Grand Design dealer was saying the keystone’s are know for delam on the back panel? Is this true? He had us walk around to a couple used ones he had on the lot and push on them and you could feel movement on all of them. I though I read somewhere though that the rear panel was not glued on just hung in place but I could be wrong!

[chuckster57]

There are plenty of different brands that the rear wall is "hung in place". My 2012 Copper Canyon is one and it hasn't had any issues. It is held in place at the top, bottom, sides and the window. Don't let that be the only reason NOT to pick a Keystone product. Not trying to spite the Grand Designs units as we are a dealer and I work on them, I just think its funny how the dealer of a particular brand will downplay/bash the brand he doesn't sell.

[JRTJH]

The Grand Design dealer was saying the keystone’s are know for delam on the back panel? Is this true? He had us walk around to a couple used ones he had on the lot and push on them and you could feel movement on all of them. I though I read somewhere though that the rear panel was not glued on just hung in place but I could be wrong!

Your salesman is "blowing smoke" !!!!

Keystone RV's are built (intentionally) with a floating rear wall. To suggest that they are "known for delam on the back panel" and having you push on the wall to "show you that it gives and is faulty" is, in my opinion, "playing you for a dumb-a**".... Don't fall for it and find another person that won't lie to you.

Here are photos of the way the rear wall on Keystone RV's is constructed. As you can see, the wall "hangs on the rear frame and floats" That's NOT delamination....

[Hitsman3]

We have looked @ Outdoors RV TT & when we told the dealer we were going to look at a Keystone Cougar, he laughed & said we would be back, they don’t compare to “our trailers!” Grand Design dealer says the Keystone don’t compare to our quality & do you know they delam on the back panel? When we told the keystone dealer what other trailers we were looking at, he said “Good, they make good trailers but so do we. I’m glad you went and looked at theirs as well, I won’t say anything bad about them. The Keystone dealer we are looking at, their salesman don’t work on commission.

[Snoking]

The wife & i are looking at getting our first Travel Trailer. At the moment we have it narrowed down to a 2020 Cougar Half Ton 22RBSWE & a 2020 Grand Design Imagine XLS 22RBE. What are people's thoughts on these as far as quality, is one better that the other? Who has better customer service in your opinion?

You might want to look at the Laredo 225MK also. I little heavier, but most likely built better. 4400 lb axles, wet bolts and 15" tires, plus these two packages make it nice:

BLACK LABEL PACKAGE
Electric stabilizer jacks front & rear
Road Armor™ suspension system
SolidStep® by Lippert Components, main entry
Solid-surface countertops

LIFE SIZE PACKAGE
Large shower 34'' - 50'' TT
50 AMP service, wired and braced for 2nd air conditioner
8 cu. ft. Refrigerator
Road ArmorTM suspension system

BTW I hate dinette's.

[Hitsman3]

Chuckster57, please educate me, is there a reason it’s “hung?” Is this a better design? Are the Grand Designs hung or laminated on? Is one way better than the other or just a Design preference?

[wiredgeorge]

I think a more basic issue is trying to learn about design from a salesman. If you go into a Ford dealership and ask why you shouldn't buy a Chevy, do you think you will get an honest and balanced answer from the salesman? Spend some time diving through RV parks and you will see delamination on quite a few trailers of many brands. Glue lets loose from fiberglass. The most common cause of the delamination is an owner failing to periodically re-seal seams with lap sealant. Lack of maintenance is not a brand specific problem.

[sourdough]

[QUOTE=Hitsman3;360167]We have looked @ Outdoors RV TT & when we told the dealer we were going to look at a Keystone Cougar, he laughed & said we would be back, they don’t compare to “our trailers!” Grand Design dealer says the Keystone don’t compare to our quality & do you know they delam on the back panel? When we told the keystone dealer what other trailers we were looking at, he said “Good, they make good trailers but so do we. I’m glad you went and looked at theirs as well, I won’t say anything bad about them. The Keystone dealer we are looking at, their salesman don’t work on commission.[/QUOTE

Hitsman3; I've bought lots and lots of things in my life and dealt with countless "salesmen". Some are honest, straightforward and let their product sell itself. Some believe the best path to a sale is to disparage every other brand out there to make whatever they're selling sound better and hope you don't know the difference - snake oil salesmen is what I call them. That's what you've found at the GD dealership. The guy at the Keystone dealer was straight up and honest - I would buy from him if he was selling a Yugo before I bought from the other guy. Here's the deal though; the Keystone guy is trusting you to do your homework and KNOW what you want after comparing. The GD guy is trying to put down anything other than what he sells by spinning tales - a very bad sign in my book.

[chuckster57]

Chuckster57, please educate me, is there a reason it’s “hung?” Is this a better design? Are the Grand Designs hung or laminated on? Is one way better than the other or just a Design preference?


Most likely just the way it’s done by some manufacturers. I believe the XLS is laminated, I’ll take a closer look in the morning as I’ve been working on motorhomes lately.

[Hitsman3]

Thank you guys for all the responses, I’ve done plenty of research on the old internet on both TT’s. We definitely like the feel/vibe of how we were treated at the Keystone dealer. Grand Design we weren’t treated bad, just don’t like the fact that they think they know everything about another trailer they don’t sell unless they get one on trade in. We like the Imagine XLS 22 but have yet to set foot in one as there is not one to be found in the state of Washington. Have looked at the Cougar a couple times & are waiting to look at the XLS 22 and make are decision. The Keystone dealer already has a head start on things as he was honest with us. Keep the comments coming, pros and cons.

[chuckster57]

Which XLS? 22MLE or 22RBE?

[Hitsman3]

The Grand Design is the XLS 22RBE

[chuckster57]

That does have the laminated rear wall. I think we have sold a few and they have come in with very few issues.

[Hitsman3]

Is the laminated wall better than the hung or they pretty equal? Few other questions, I see the Grand Design floor is made of marine grade osb or plywood, I don’t think the Cougar is? Does that matter? Also the Grand Design has a 12 year roof warranty and the Cougar has a 3 year, should that make a difference in our decision?

[chuckster57]

Is the laminated wall better than the hung or they pretty equal? Few other questions, I see the Grand Design floor is made of marine grade osb or plywood, I don’t think the Cougar is? Does that matter? Also the Grand Design has a 12 year roof warranty and the Cougar has a 3 year, should that make a difference in our decision?


Floor? I personally don’t think that should be a deciding factor

Rear wall? Again I wouldn’t base my decision on it

Roof warranty- I bet the 12 yrs is on the membrane, and the cougar roof is likely 10 or 12 years on the membrane. Both will probably require routine maintenance after 90 days to prevent leaks. In the end your decision should be based on what YOU think of the overall quality and floor plan. You should if possible, sit in both and imagine watching TV in rainy weather. Cooking and cleaning dishes. We spent 3 years and sat in hundreds of different trailers before we bought.

Would I buy another Keystone product? Yes but since I work at a dealership that sells Grand Designs and I can get an employees discount...

[philiprmcgovern]

OK, I gotta weigh in here. I’m no expert but, we’ve spent the last four winters in warm places in our Keystone Montana High Country and have had muchas problemas with it. Almost every trip, it was something new breaking or falling off. For a lot of it, I was able to do a redneck repair with duct tape and bailing wire, but twice we had to use “remote” repair techs to do major repairs on two of our three slide outs in two different states. Since they were very experienced with all brands and are not affiliated with a dealer, I asked them both which brand offers the best quality and the fewest problems and both of them, without hesitating. said “Grand Design”. Several GD owners told us they had few, if any, problems with theirs and that the factory was always super helpful in making things right. We toured the GD factory a couple of weeks ago and were very impressed with their build quality and post-sale customer support. Based on all this, we ordered a new GD and, fortunately for us, the dealer gave us a trade-in allowance without even looking at the old Montana. We have also spent a lot of time on the owners forums for both brands reviewing what the owners have to say and the GD owners are a LOT happier than their Keystone counterparts. Keep up your research and make your own decision, but I’m sure you would be much better off by going with Grand Design. Regardless, good luck and happy trails!

[busterbrown]

Floor plan, floor plan, floor plan should be the top priority for anyone seeking their first RV. Determine the floor plan then search on competing models.

Secondly, customer service isn't necessarily driven by the manufacturer; it's "dealer-centric". A dealer will have more influence on the success of your purchase "post-sale" than just buying a coach based purely on "reputation". The selling dealership can be an owners advocate when 'sh$t' hits the fan during the warranty period. Even after the warranty has ended, a good dealer can makes amends to problems that may arise, to continue a positive future relationship.

Finally, when it comes to first time trailer owners, perceptions and wants change after taking delivery for many reasons. It may be that the owners have imagined sometime completely different about RVing prior to their purchase. OR, it may be that life events don't allow for enough RV vacation days. OR, it may simply be the owners have found a more suitable coach for their liking. Whatever the case, IMO, going "all-in" with a top dollar unit from a top dollar manufacturer on one's first RV purchase is not best practice as there is a good change that in 1, 2, or 3 years, change will happen. As little as most people use their trailers and as fast as they depreciate after leaving the dealer lots, I think it's a good decision to minimize RV expenses until one find's their RV groove. That's what we did with our Bullet as we didn't know what to expect 4 years ago. In a few years, we may upgrade to something else as we now know what we like out of a vacation coach. But to be all honest, I'm happy to have started with a budget-valued Bullet.

[pdaniel]

The wife & i are looking at getting our first Travel Trailer. At the moment we have it narrowed down to a 2020 Cougar Half Ton 22RBSWE & a 2020 Grand Design Imagine XLS 22RBE. What are people's thoughts on these as far as quality, is one better that the other? Who has better customer service in your opinion?
I traded my 2017 30RLI Cougar for a Grand Design product, a Solitude, and I have friends with Imagine TT along with Reflection. We have been with our Solitude for 6 months and about 5000 miles.
When we were considering which RV to buy we toured the Montana High Country (similar to the Reflection), Jayco, and gave the benefit of the doubt to Cougar.
After a lot of comparison shopping we opted for the Solitude.
Our friends with the Imagines are very happy with their RVs.
It would be difficult to compare quality and features between my former Cougar, a mid-range TT to the Solitude.
However, keep in mind that most of the towable manufacturers use the same processes to assemble these rigs.
That said, now that I own a Grand Design product there is no going back to a Keystone product (sorry Keystone owners). I have found the need to contact Grand Design customer assistance and they are very, very good to work with.
I'm not bashing the Keystone line, but, as a former owner I found many faults in the design of my Cougar and noticed the same poor design in the (gasp) Montana line.
My advice? Go with the Imagine.

[pdaniel]

OK, I gotta weigh in here. I’m no expert but, we’ve spent the last four winters in warm places in our Keystone Montana High Country and have had muchas problemas with it. Almost every trip, it was something new breaking or falling off. For a lot of it, I was able to do a redneck repair with duct tape and bailing wire, but twice we had to use “remote” repair techs to do major repairs on two of our three slide outs in two different states. Since they were very experienced with all brands and are not affiliated with a dealer, I asked them both which brand offers the best quality and the fewest problems and both of them, without hesitating. said “Grand Design”. Several GD owners told us they had few, if any, problems with theirs and that the factory was always super helpful in making things right. We toured the GD factory a couple of weeks ago and were very impressed with their build quality and post-sale customer support. Based on all this, we ordered a new GD and, fortunately for us, the dealer gave us a trade-in allowance without even looking at the old Montana. We have also spent a lot of time on the owners forums for both brands reviewing what the owners have to say and the GD owners are a LOT happier than their Keystone counterparts. Keep up your research and make your own decision, but I’m sure you would be much better off by going with Grand Design. Regardless, good luck and happy trails!
GDs service after the sale is very good. I have contacted them a couple of times over issues that I can fix.
Lastly, GD has owner rallies around the nation, and one will be in Canada next summer in which GD technicians will keep the owners happy with minor repairs and adjustments.

[busterbrown]

What a fallacy to think GD doesn't have quality control issues too...

https://youtu.be/mEUmZ4-z1Bg

[tanglemoose]

We owned a 2015 21rbswe and a 2017 21rbswe, exact same RV, they just changed the model number in 2018. We absolutely have loved our's, the storage is over the top, King bed is what made us go from 15 to 17. There are virtually none that have king beds and they are not a real king, so from a Queen to King is so nice. Plus, we really like that they put the closets up high, so you can open without knocking off everything and makes sleeping area seem bigger. This model is almost impossible to find new as people seem to keep them! Plus the water storage is awesome, 76 gray, 60 water and 38 black... we can go out for a long time!

[WestCoastWanderer]

Great advise from the forum. All I want to say is I love my 2018 21RBSWE. It is essentially the same trailer. The big four for my wife and I were: big fridge, big shower, big dinette, and big bed. Been on long and short pulls and am always happy.Good luck choosing what is best for you.

IMG_0824.jpeg

[WestCoastWanderer]

We owned a 2015 21rbswe and a 2017 21rbswe, exact same RV, they just changed the model number in 2018. We absolutely have loved our's, the storage is over the top, King bed is what made us go from 15 to 17. There are virtually none that have king beds and they are not a real king, so from a Queen to King is so nice. Plus, we really like that they put the closets up high, so you can open without knocking off everything and makes sleeping area seem bigger. This model is almost impossible to find new as people seem to keep them! Plus the water storage is awesome, 76 gray, 60 water and 38 black... we can go out for a long time!

Amen to that. Add big capacities. You can be out for long periods. Makes dry camping more pleasant. always can add more water before hitting the dump station.

[Roscommon48]

I'd recommend you look at a used trailer for your first trailer....and make sure your pull vehicle will work for you.

[B-O-B'03]

I agree with what folks have been telling you, especially the floor-plan bit.

When we decided to get back into camping the DW and I made a list of things we thought were important for our new trailer to have and after that I googled some of the list.

We ended up with a Bullet Premier 22RBPR which seems to have most of the features of the 21rbswe and then some.

I like the fact that there are pocket doors between the bedroom and living area and the DW had outdoor kitchen on the top of her list.

It has turned out to be perfect for the 2 of us and our 14 month old Lab.

We have put over 13,000 miles on it so far and the only issues have been minor, that I corrected myself, it has never been back for any warranty work.

Good luck with whatever you choose, I am sure you will find mods others have done on here that you will like, keep us posted.

-Brian

[Cougar Jim]

Here is my 2 cents worth. Having down sized from 2 Big Rig diesel motorhomes for the past 14 yrs and travelled 147,000 miles. We purchased a 2019 Cougar Half Ton 22RBS in May. It has furnishings that our Moho had. King bed, theater seating recliners, well appointed kitchen and bath room, and a 50" TV. This model also has electric front and rear stabilizers and a Cougar emblem large window in the front cap. We traveled 6200 miles this summer without a problem.

Whatever brand you choose be sure to buy a quality sway control. We bought a Husky.

Cougar Jim
2018 Ram Big Horn Mega Cab Diesel 4x4

[Snoking]

Here is my 2 cents worth. Having down sized from 2 Big Rig diesel motorhomes for the past 14 yrs and travelled 147,000 miles. We purchased a 2019 Cougar Half Ton 22RBS in May. It has furnishings that our Moho had. King bed, theater seating recliners, well appointed kitchen and bath room, and a 50" TV. This model also has electric front and rear stabilizers and a Cougar emblem large window in the front cap. We traveled 6200 miles this summer without a problem.

Whatever brand you choose be sure to buy a quality sway control. We bought a Husky.

Cougar Jim
2018 Ram Big Horn Mega Cab Diesel 4x4

We parked our 39'4" 5th Wheel in the NW as a summer home and bought a Laredo 225MK with a similar floor plan. Our 2019 has a queen and the 2020s have a king bed, but much small wardrobes. We use the outdoor kitchen refer for beer, pop and white wine. Like the theater seats, and hate booths. Like size of shower, however not the quality of that item. 8K GVWR trailer that came with solid surface counters, electric stabilizers and tongue jack, 4400 lb axles, wet bolts, Road Armor equalizers, 15" tires and wheels, lots of storage and 50amp service.

We are currently commuting to Arizona in it for the winter. It goes in storage and we have a park model with Arizona room.

[chuckster57]

What a fallacy to think GD doesn't have quality control issues too...

https://youtu.be/mEUmZ4-z1Bg


ALL makers have issues, but as a tech that works at a dealership that sells the Grand Designs line of trailers, I can personally attest to the LOW Percentage of issues. I’m not here to “defend” GD or trash any other brand, but I can say with complete confidence that the video you linked to is the exception to the rule. I could post videos of $450,000.00 motorhomes with major flaws, but again ONE bad apple doesn’t ruin the whole basket.

I originally posted that floor plan is probably the most important factor along with build quality. A $10,000 trailer is going to have the same stuff as a $45,000 trailer, it just won’t have as many brads, and screws. And the brad holes may not be putty filled. Buyers have to decide what they are willing to accept and pay accordingly. Kind of like buying a pinto and expecting it to be as nice as a Lincoln town car...Ain’t happening!!

Rant off...