Lippert Level UP???

[Dan Lockwood]

Good morning.

I'm new to the new generation of RV's and have just purchased a new to us '12 Keystone Raptor 395LEV.

It has the one button leveling system by Lippert and it works well. Ours is a 42.5' long RV and has the hydraulic system with six leveling legs.

I've been told that with the six leg system that, if necessary, I can use the three on one side to lift the RV up far enough to change a tire.

But not being all that familiar with the system, I have a couple thoughts. As I understand it, the rears work in unison with each other and are NOT able to be used as left side only or right side only. I believe the mid and fronts may also be the same.

If I'm mistaken on their operation, then I could see how they could in fact lift one side only. I've seen videos that say that each leveling leg can lift 30k#, so three on one side would definitely have enough piss in the pistons to perform that feat of lifting.

Can anyone give me a class on Lippert 101?

Also I'm still have some issues when getting ready to hook back up. I've done it alone now once, but had the dealer on the phone while doing it. The best I could get was that ALL SIX legs went up and the RV when all the way down to the ground. Actually the front legs were still on the ground up front, but were fully retracted into the cylinders. Then I hit the two outside buttons and it came up to my "memory" load height.

But is it supposed to drop to the ground, so to speak every time I do a hook up mode?

Sorry for the very rookie questions, but the last Class A I had was in the late 80's. So no leveling legs, just blocks of wood... :)

Thanks in advance and have a great day.

[chuckster57]

Good morning.

You can lift one side or the other using “manual” mode. Just press the up or down arrow next to the display until you see manual mode on the display, press enter and then use the appropriate arrow in the “diamond”. You can retract by pressing the retract button which should light up the dot above it.

When getting ready to hitch back up, just use the arrows to scroll to “retract rear”, press enter and the rear and middles will fully retract, the fronts (landing gear) will stay where they are. At this point just press the front button to raise the front or press the retract button to put the system in retract mode and press the front button to lower the front. Once locked into the hitch, scroll to “retract all” press enter and your done.

When unhitching, simply turn the system on and press and hold the front arrow, both front jacks will extend, maybe not together but they will equalize once one touches.

Hope this helps.

There is lots of great information on their website.

ON EDIT: if you have “one control” or “My RV” it’s a bit different and I can explain that once I’m done driving to work... can you post a pic of your panel?

[Dan Lockwood]

Chuck, thanks.

I've been to Modesto quite a few times for work. I have a few customers outside of town in the industrial complex area, Plastipak Packaging, Liquid Container and Graham Packaging. We sell plastic bottle trimming equipment, we're an O.E.M. for that type of equipment.

I "may" have done "retract all" instead of the "retract rear" command.

I got this off the Internet, but I believe this is what I have.

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/h3veO-H-lzk/maxresdefault.jpg

I'll be doing my first unassisted hook up this weekend. As it is right now, it's in my subdivision driveway and not a level driveway by any means. You can see how much I've added under the front legs to "help" the stroke of the legs so they wouldn't bottom out. I'll do the "retract rear" legs and that should let the front two be the dominant legs when doing my truck height hook up.

http://pic80.picturetrail.com/VOL846/863774/24841920/414293308.jpg

Thanks and I'll keep you posted, but thanks for now. Greatly appreciated.

[Dan Lockwood]

Chuck, being from Modesto AND the 57 in your screen name, do you by chance have a 57 Chevy? With Modesto getting thrown on the map for American Graffiti back in '73, it would seem appropriate that you would have a great classic car, but I may be way off on the 57 reference.

[LZScout]

Dan, I’ve had my Keystone Alpine for 6 years with the 6 point Level Up system that you have. I have always operated it the way Chuck has described without problems. I’ve changed a tire using it. But to this day, I’ve never got the “memory” position to work right. I think that is due to the fact a specific set of circumstances need to be met when unhooking, that I never met. I don’t miss it.

Lantz

[xrated]

Dan, I may be wrong but the picture you posted above is the control station for the 4 leg motor operated leveling system, not the six leg hydraulic system. I have the 6 leg hydraulic system on my trailer and when you unhitch from the truck, the height that the trailer is, is remembered in the control And that height becomes your "hitch position". So, at the end of your camping stay and you are ready to hitch the truck back up, and before you back the truck under the pin box, press the hitch height button. This will automatically retract the rear legs and the middle legs on both sides of the trailer. When that process is complete, the system will then lower the trailer (retract the front landing gear legs) until it is at the same height as it was when you unhitched the truck....hitch position. Once that has happened, it's now safe to back your truck up and do the hitching into the 5ver hitch.

One thing to keep in mind with this system. When you unhitch from the truck. if the trailer is below "level", it will remember that as the hitch height and when you go to hook back up at the end of your camping trip, and you press hitch position, it will fault because the hitch position it remembers is lower than level. It is programmed to do that so that you cannot damage a truck hitch or bed by going lower than level. On my setup, I will raise the trailer enough to unhitch. I then drive the truck out of the way. Then, if my trailer isn't at level or higher, I will raise the trailer some more until I know that is above level.....I then press the auto level button and let it do all of the leveling moves it needs to do. When it's time to hitch back up, I press the hitch position. It will retract the rear and middle legs on both sides then go to my hitch position (which is higher than it needs to be, because I raised it after unhitching). Once it is in hitch position, I will slowly back the truck in and manually lower it until I have the exact height I need to hitch up. After completing the hitching, raise the landing gear legs an inch or so and do your pull test with the wheel chocks still in place and the brakes to the trailer fully applied. Then, don't forget to raise the legs the rest of the way up.

[xrated]

Dan, I’ve had my Keystone Alpine for 6 years with the 6 point Level Up system that you have. I have always operated it the way Chuck has described without problems. I’ve changed a tire using it. But to this day, I’ve never got the “memory” position to work right. I think that is due to the fact a specific set of circumstances need to be met when unhooking, that I never met. I don’t miss it.

Lantz

Lantz.....read my post above with the explanation of why hitch position has never worked for you.

[chuckster57]

I wish!! I was born in 1957. That movie is based on Yosemite blvd, Buy was filmed in Napa county. The race scene was filmed on Jack tone rd.

The panel you posted applies to what I responded. Any issues, feel free to PM me.

[Laredo Tugger]

Dan,
I recently was having problems with my Lippert auto level system also. Ended up being a bad cell in the battery (it got left on and drained down during dealer service ). Got a new battery, system works fine. Evidently these auto level systems are very voltage sensitive and will not work correctly without the proper voltage.
RMc

[chuckster57]

Pics taken a few minutes ago;

“Level up” 6 pt hydraulic
23769

“Ground control” 4 pt electric (6 pt is same)
23770
“Level up” 6 pt hydraulic with “ONE Control”
23771

[xrated]

Chuck, the bottom one is the one I have on mine. Thanks

[travelin texans]

Dan, I’ve had my Keystone Alpine for 6 years with the 6 point Level Up system that you have. I have always operated it the way Chuck has described without problems. I’ve changed a tire using it. But to this day, I’ve never got the “memory” position to work right. I think that is due to the fact a specific set of circumstances need to be met when unhooking, that I never met. I don’t miss it.

Lantz

If once you've leveled using "auto level" then tweak the RV level from manual mode or use any other button you will have lost the re-hitch memory.
As for the nose dropping, once unhitched from your truck move the truck well out from under the hitch, when you hit auto level the 1st thing is the nose drops all the way down & could damage your truck if too close.

[LZScout]

Thanks everyone for the instructions on how to use the Level Up memory function. Back about the time I was trying to make it work, I added a Blue Ox Bedsaver to my SuperGlide Pullrite Hitch. It’s an add-on that catches the 5th Wheel should it become unhitched and prevents damage to both units. We have to raise the 5th to disconnect, pull forward a little to clear the hitch, the raise it a bit more to clear the Bedsaver. You can do it with one person but it’s easier to use two. It’s just easier to stay in manual mode to do it all.

[xrated]

If once you've leveled using "auto level" then tweak the RV level from manual mode or use any other button you will have lost the re-hitch memory.
As for the nose dropping, once unhitched from your truck move the truck well out from under the hitch, when you hit auto level the 1st thing is the nose drops all the way down & could damage your truck if too close.

I have never had that happen....the dropping all the way Down part! When I press auto level, it does move the trailer down, until it is below level. Then it starts raising it back up to find level. Chuckster can correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe that reason for going down first, then back up to level is a more precisely controlled movement. If it just came down to find level, gravity and the weight of the trailer would likely bring it down faster than trying to raise it and having it overcome the weight of the trailer....slower movement upwards.

[Dan Lockwood]

It appears that mine is the same as the picture I posted earlier from the Internet.

This is a picture my wife took this morning and sent to me at work.

http://pic80.picturetrail.com/VOL846/863774/24841920/414297823.jpg

Mine is most definitely a 6-leg and it IS a one touch Auto Level system.

I've gotten some good insight from the many posts here, thanks.

I'll see how it all works out this weekend when I drop it back down to my hitch and then unhook it in the storage lot.

One question about the storage lot.

When I unhook and chock a couple wheels and raise it up off the hitch and drive away, can I then just use the little bubble level on the side of my rig and only the front legs to get it "close" to level? I would still be able to walk around in it as long as I don't extend any of the three slides, correct?

Thanks again everyone!

[Dan Lockwood]

It says do not use for tire removal or working under the RV.

But I'm sure that's a disclaimer just in case someone were to tip a rig over on a hill or something, right?

[LZScout]

Dan, I don’t see why not. When I take ours to the storage lot, I just leave it in the state I drive away from it, somewhat nose high. It lets the rain run off better.

[LZScout]

I think you are right about the disclaimer. I’ve noticed several times when I autolevel, it take all the weight of the tires on one side. If it lifts them off the ground, I usually will put blocks under them and re Level. So using it to change a tire is no different IMO.

[chuckster57]

We use it all the time, I believe Lippert says to use jack stands for safety.

[Laredo Tugger]

LZ Scout: " I added a Blue Ox Bedsaver to my SuperGlide Pullrite Hitch. It’s an add-on that catches the 5th Wheel should it become unhitched and prevents damage to both units"
Been there done that. But that's another story/post. I will be looking at this.
RMc

[Roscommon48]

first off, if you have issues call lippert and have them go through it with you...


here is how I do it however:
to take off: 1. lower ONLY front legs enough to get off the hitch. 2. move truck away. 3. hit the 'auto' and let it level the 6 legs. 4. it will say success when done correctly. that's it.


to get back hitched up. I turn on and hit the 'front' to go up or 'retract' and then 'front' to lower the front to level it to reconnect to hitch. THEN when hitched I retract and hit the 'rear' button to retract and then the 'front to retract. That's it.


and yes you can lift one side off the ground.

[ChuckS]

The auto level will “fail” to auto level if when you unhitch or begin auto level the nose of t he fifth wheel is not slightly “nose high”... if the nose is below level and you select auto level the front legs will retract all the way ...

The front and rear remote sensors are looking for a negative value once auto level is selected. If the nose is already low the RV will continue to drive nose down looking for that change to a negative value and it can’t find it..

This will usually give you an auto level failure.. to correct simply manually raise the nose slightly high and select auto level again

As far as using the hydraulic levelers to remove tires, etc I’ve been doing it that way for six seasons now with my Alpine... the hydraulic levelers are quite stout and plenty of reserve weight capacity to handle the lift load..

[chuckster57]

Deleted response

[bobbecky]

There is confusion about which jacks are operated when leveling. Look at the system as if it were a three point system. The landing jacks are plumbed together with a hose connecting them, and the right center and rear jacks are also connected together and finally the left center and rear jacks are also plumbed together. After disconnecting the truck, and the system has adjusted the front to rear level, the left or right side jacks will land, usually lifting one side or the other. When this happens, the landing jacks will adjust with fluid moving from one to the other. Once all the jacks are down, if the front jacks raise or lower the rig. both the left and right side jacks will adjust with fluid moving between the center and rear jacks. There is no danger of damaging the system when the leveling system is working, also if one side or the other lifts tires off the ground. Where we are currently parked, the left side tires are about three inches off the ground and we are very stable. I regularly use the system to service the bearings and brakes, and lift the rig fully off the ground. It is probably easier on the hydraulics to evenly lift the rig up instead of making it lean to one side or the other. I would not want to go back to a rig without the hydraulic leveling system. I also have watched others with the 3.0 electric system have major issues trying to level their rigs.

[Dusty]

Manual for Level-up system
https://lci-support-doc.s3.amazonaws.com/manuals/leveling-and-stabilization/ground_control_3.0_5th_wheel_oem_installation_manu al.pdf

[Dan Lockwood]

This has been a great BIG learning experience for me and I want to thank everyone for the help, shared experiences and suggestions.

So if I'm understanding this correctly when I unhook, I should pull the truck to a safe distance, of course I would, and then raise the front up to slightly above level so the rear is low: and then hit the Auto Level button. Correct?

To hookup I should raise the mid and rear legs and then push the two side corner diamond buttons at the same time to move to the "memory" unhook height. Correct?

Thanks again all and have a great day!

[chuckster57]

You don’t have to raise the front to a nose high attitude before hitting autolevel. Just unhitch, move the truck and hit autolevel.

Auto reconnect is a feature in the electric (ground control) can’t say I’ve tried it on the levelup, but yes the left and right pressed together is the “shortcut”.

[ChuckS]

If the nose if the 5th wheel is below level at unhitch ... as can happen if on an unlevel sight the nose must be raised before auto level is selected.

Otherwise the remote rear and front sensors are already seeing a negative value. The algorithm sequence is such that nose will keep driving down trying to detect that change to a negative value. It can’t find it so it will bottom front LG jacks and error out. This is how the leveling algorithm is written into the control module firmware

This pertains to the six point hydraulic level up system and may not apply to 4 point electric system

[Dan Lockwood]

Well I just took my TH out to storage and when getting it hooked up again in my driveway, I had issues.

It had been all level for a couple weeks, no issues. So we get ready and I didn't do Raise All, but went into manual to raise the rear and mid legs.

While I was in manual mode and activated the "retract" button with the red light one, I pushed rear and the mid's started to go up, but after a about 10 seconds the panel would turn off. I would have to press on/off again to get back into the manual mode. This repeated for several more times until I had both the mid and rear legs up all the way.

So I figured all I had to do was to get out of the retract mode and then just hit the two outside buttons at the same time to go back to my unhook height. But the top and right side button's red light was on and the two outside buttons did nodda.

Finally I went into manual mode again and activated "retract" mode to lower the fronts so I could hook up again.

Just a word to the wise, when I backed in the TH I was back as far into the driveway as I thought I should go and my rear wheels on the RAM were JUST at the top lip of my driveway curb. So they were raising rapidly as I backed up those last few inches to rehook. I should have backed in about a foot further so my truck rear tires had stabilized on level driveway. I'll remember that next time. As when hooking up yesterday it was NOT a direct slide into the hitch plate. I had to adjust the front legs as my wife was backing under the pin box. We got it after a few tries, but had I been on level drive with the rear truck wheels for a foot or so, it would have been tons easier.

When I unhooked at the storage lot, I went into manual mode and just raised the fronts until we could pull out with about half an inch of clearance on the pin box to hitch plate. I'll find out if this thing is going to work when I hook back up in a couple weeks.

But I don't have a clue why it would time out in manual raise mode for the mids and rears.

Any ideas?

I have two batteries and it had just been unplugged from the shore cord for maybe 10 minutes after being plugged in for a couple weeks. The battery voltage read 12.4 to 12.6 depending on when I checked.

Thanks in advance! Hope you all had a great weekend... :)

[lonewolftx]

;) The Keystone Raptor model should have the InCommand system installed last I saw. One of the phone app functions of this system is to raise and lower the front jacks. I've found it very helpful while being in the truck to raise or lower the front jacks (only front are connected) to assist in setting trailer king pin height without having to get in and out of the truck. Adding this option is under the settings section on the main board of the system in your rig.:popcorn:

[lonewolftx]

Dan, one thing I found when this happened is to unplug the keypad from the main computer and let it reset. It can be done from behind the keypad (you have to unscrew it) or at the plug in , in my case in the front genset bay, where I can see it and reach it without having to detach the keypad. Only done this twice but it worked. The whole setup is sensitive to voltage but you said it was at the needed levels.:rolleyes:

[Hunterhans]

Here is what I have encountered twice on the leveling system. I have the hydraulic 6 leg system on a 2017 Raptor TH. Twice I have been on an incline where the front of the rv is down hill. Unhook from the truck and lower the front jacks to disconnect from hitch. Move the truck away. Hit auto level and it won’t because nose is down hill. Manually extend front jacks to full extension and still won’t auto level due to front end still low. I figure ok hook back up to the truck and put blocks under front jacks to get the nose up more. Well guess what? You can’t retract the front jacks because the rv never reached satisfactory level position. Now I am forced to manually lower the front jacks by opening the control solenoid and then manually turn the hydraulic pump motor. Talk about taking forever to get the front down to reconnect to the truck. I think it is ridiculous that a person can’t control the legs from the keypad if the rig fails to reach a level sensation to the system.

[larryflew]

Have had Lippert guys working on our 6 point system in AZ (2 different guys) and in MN and all have lifted one side checking things and each said it was not a problem. Have since used it when working on tires, bearings etc.

Same board as the OP pictured BTW.

Lippert is great to work with and they actually call you back. They have a great app also. Its called LyLCI and available on the web site. It covers most items on every trailer as a LOT of your trailer is Lippert products.

[cenders]

While I was in manual mode and activated the "retract" button with the red light one, I pushed rear and the mid's started to go up, but after a about 10 seconds the panel would turn off. I would have to press on/off again to get back into the manual mode.

I have the same control panel with my 6 jack hydraulic system.

Dan, this is not normal operation. As suggested unplug the wires from the back of the panel to reset it. Try again. If it continues to operate this way, talk to your dealer to have the panel replaced under warranty (mine just swapped my panel when I brought it to them, no need to take the whole trailer).

Are you clear on the left/right operation? Another person explained it very well. Your original post thought the two rear jacks operated together but they do not. "rear" means all 4 back jacks. "Left" is both the left middle and left rear jacks in unison. Right is the other two. The front two jacks operate together.

I use mine to lift tires off the ground for maintenance all of the time. It is amazing. But I would never be under the trailer without secondary supports should the jacks fail.

One thing to note, not sure if Lippert has improved this or not. My jacks (2013) used make a "pop" sound hours after being extended. Usually in the middle of the night and would wake me up. When I first got the system, I wasn't sure that the jacks had actually lost height etc. After a while it just became a severe annoyance realizing that no movement was actually happening. Turns out, this is a well known problem and there is an easy fix. CAT makes a hydraulic additive to reduce friction. You suck out some oil and add some of this. Technical document here: https://support.lci1.com/documents/ti-191-adding-anti-stiction-fluid-to-hydraulic-systems

[Dan Lockwood]

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/h3veO-H-lzk/maxresdefault.jpg

I'm sure that I can get used to operating the panel and some of my errors will probably go away in time.

But I was concerned about the little red lights showing up on the FRONT & RIGHT buttons when I was going through my hookup.

So just to recap, in Manual Mode, the front button operates both front jacks at the same time. The rear button will control all four, mid and rears, as one "set" of jacks. If I use the right button the front door side mid and rear will extend/retract etc and left button operates the mid and rear of the back side of the TH. If I want to service the wheels on the front I would press the right button until the tri-axle was off the ground and vice versa for the rear to service them.

Pushing "Retract" raises the jacks, again based upon the buttons pushed.

When unhooking I will be in manual mode and use the front button to raise the front of the TH to unhook from my hitch. (If I'm on such a lot that has a front downward angle, I should place some blocks under the front jacks to when Auto Leveling I don't run out of jack stroke, that didn't sound right, but you all know what I mean... :) )

I've only been able to get the "re-hook" height two outside buttons to work once out of three hookups.

Here's a shot of my parking in our driveway. You can see that it's slanted downward towards the curb. I did have the forethought to add some 2"x12" blocks under the jack pads before unhooking. Without the front jack blocks, I'm sure I would have run out of available jack height to level the TH.

Also you can see that the hitch is just outside of the curb a few inches. This didn't seem like an issue upon my unhooking, but upon hooking back up it was a challenge. The hitch was raising as we backed up and I had a bit of a time getting the front pin height just right to slide into my hitch on two different planes at the same time. Next time I will back in another foot, almost to the house now, but the extra foot will allow my truck wheels to have been on the same driveway surface and on the cusp of the curb to driveway as before.

http://pic80.picturetrail.com/VOL846/863774/24841920/414293308.jpg

Sorry for the length of this. It really is a problem I have. Once I get my fingers talking, I can't shut them up.... :(

I do very much appreciate you all offering suggestions and sharing your experiences with me. I know sometimes it can be, "what's this guy thinking, doesn't he know anything???" But with time and more hands on experiences, I will not be asking such ignorant questions. I know, there are no dumb questions, just questions that weren't asked.

Thanks again and have a great day!

[chuckster57]

When your system is turned on and you haven’t pressed auto level, the LED’s lit in the “diamond” indicate what the system says is low. If the front and right LEDs are lit then it’s saying you are nose low and leaning to the road side.

[Dan Lockwood]

Chuck, thanks! I've not read nor heard that before. That's a good bit of knowledge to have in my back pocket.

Once the Auto Level has been run and it says Level Successful, I shut it off then. But if I turn the power back on the unit and the front and right are lit up, then that means that it's settled a bit to go "off level" a bit?

To correct this RED light indicator, can I go into the scrolling menu and see if it tells me a + or - for the front and the right side? If I'm - in both front and right, would I then go to manual mode and press the front and the right just a bit? If I do this, when do I know that I'm back to level? Will the red lights go out when I achieve level?

I would not have thought on my hard surface driveway that I would have gone negative on the front and right while sitting. But with all the in/out travel we did over the two weeks, maybe it was just a bit off when the auto level was completed.

Not totally on subject, still with the level aspect in mind, what if you need to open a slide while on the road. Can one open a slide safely without going through the leveling process? Say a tire blew out and you have to open that slide to get tire remnants out of the area.

Sorry for switching gears in the middle of a thread, go figure!

[chuckster57]

First off yes you can extend slides without having to autolevel first, just try not to be leaning real bad to one side. As far as turning back on and seeing lights, you can correct it using manual mode, and then you need to figure out why it’s coming out of level. Dirt/gravel? Jacks leaking down? Maybe the rear sensor isn’t secured solid?

[Dan Lockwood]

Chuck, thanks!

is there a diagram of sensor locations? Are they usually in the same place on all 5er's?

Theoretically if the sensor was off or calibrated to something less than level etc, the Auto Level would go to the erroneous level, but think it's level and therefore would not give an out of level red light, correct?

My system is spotless for oil leaks, lines, cylinders, pump enclosure etc. And I was on hard surface that would not change. If a sensor was loose, all the walking around and moving the washer/dryer combo out could possibly trigger an off level condition. I really didn't see how far off it was indicating.

Not to be a dead horse like I've already done in great detail... could a slides be moved in/out if not completely leveled?

I do really appreciate you continuing to share valuable information, thanks again!

[chuckster57]

No problem. The rear sensor is usually mounted on a cross member at a set distance behind the rear axle. The controller is usually in the front compartment on the roof of the compartment,

And yes, close to Level is ok to operate the slides. To further confuse you, there is a manifold with thumbscrew valves to lock out one slide or the other.

[Dan Lockwood]

And yes, close to Level is ok to operate the slides. To further confuse you, there is a manifold with thumbscrew valves to lock out one slide or the other.

Chuck, thanks again!

I looked in the compartment with the hydraulics and the dual batteries and didn't see any switchable valving. I'll take a better look this weekend out at the storage lot.

I did a little more reading at lunch and when I said that my auto hookup didn't work upon rehooking the rig to the hitch, I read in the master manual from Lippert that "if" your unhook height is below level, the memory function will not work. And it's all manual operation on the key pad.

Again, THANKS!

[chuckster57]

We don’t sell that toy haulers so I’m not sure where they would put it. On the brands we sell it’s in the curb side propane compartment.