Towing Question

[WSCY]

I own a 2018 Keystone Hideout (30 ft) and I tow this with a 2019 Toyota Tundra Crew with a short bed. I typically drive around 60-65 depending on road conditions. My question is as I get passed by semis the trailer is pushed to the right side causing the tow vehicle to want to go left for which I must correct. Is this a typical reaction or is my setup not sufficient to handle these outside forces? The trailer weighs 6115# empty and the truck is 5040# curb weight. Thanks

[Northofu1]

What do you use for weight distribution/ sway control?
Post all numbers from the two stickers on the drivers door post, and from the trailer.
Gives the members a better understanding of what your needs are.

[jsb5717]

There are a lot of discussions on this forum re: weight capacities. When considering trailer weight use the GVWR, not the empty weight. The sticker in the door jamb of your truck should tell you it's load and tow capacity. Your truck is likely out matched. Being able to tow it is one thing. But as you've discovered, being able to tow it safely/comfortably is another.

A 30' trailer is a pretty big sail on the freeway. You would be much happier with a 3/4 ton truck. IMHO

[WSCY]

Weight distribution with sway bars: Husky Centerline, Max gross weight 8000, weight dist tongue weight 600-800, trailer tongue weight 740. Vehicle towing capacity 10,500, GCVWR 15,200. Vehicle 5040 + trlr 6700=11740.

[WSCY]

I had extensively researched this issue to make sure that all things regarding weight fell within the specs for trailer weight, truck weight and towing capacity, hitch capacity, etc. I thought all was good. The only issue seems to be the wind.

[jsb5717]

Makes sense. You did your homework because you wanted to be safe. Sadly, the numbers are one thing...real life experience brings more to the story.

Your loaded tongue weight is likely more like 900-1000 lbs so I do see a mismatch in your setup that can cause a little fish-tailing in stronger wind (or semi suction). A heavier duty hitch with appropriate sway contral may help. That is, if your truck's hitch weight capacity is adequate

Edit: Using GVW numbers for calcs: Vehicle 7000 + trlr 7800 = 14800. Depending on how you load, in addition to the tail being over weight I would say you don't have enough hitch or truck to tow comfortably. Again...JMHO

[Northofu1]

You have to go by the GVWR numbers for both vehicles to get the GCVWR. You have to know exactly what the payload is as posted on your tundra, not a brochure. There are at least 10 Hideouts for that year and length that all have hitch weights that vary from 620 to 850 (empty), with out knowing what you have exactly, it's extremely difficult to figure it out and advise you. The labels on the two vehicles will have the exact numbers and always follow the gross weights, not dry.

[ctbruce]

The biggest issue will be the lightness of the TV and the sail size of the 30 footer. Combined they will catch a lot of wind from semis and the anchor weight of the truck.

[Ken / Claudia]

FYI, my trailer is shorter and I checked the real weights as I do to all trucks/cars rvs I own. The tongue weight was listed at 540 lb? (500 something)
Take a guess at the real weight......920 lbs. Loaded for camping, 2 people for a couple days. The fresh water tank full.
Go to a scale and get the real weights of your truck/trailer, check to see if rear tires/axles are rated for that weight. Check your payload weight, see if your within the ratings.
Just talking about my case, my TV is heavier than RV. When a semi passes or I pass a semi, There is always a felt push/pull affect. Same as a car/motorcycle or any vehicle passing a semi. Some you feel the affect more. But, that does not create TV or RV oscillations. I use the lower end WHD and anti sway equipment.

[travelin texans]

Don't post the dry weight of your RV, as has been mentioned numerous times, that is a totally useless number to anyone except the guy that delivered it to your dealer & once he put a battery in it that number changed never to be again.
Max tow weight of your brand of truck also doesn't offer much help, you'll normally exceed the trucks payload long before you reach that tow weight.
Basically without all the useful numbers the answer is too much trailer with not enough truck.

[Logan X]

I think you already know the answer to the question on is your truck enough to tow that trailer. The reason you are getting pushed around by semi trucks is your truck is not big enough. Sorry, I’m sure that is not what you wanted to hear. In my opinion, you should be towing with a 3/4 ton truck or bigger for a 30 foot travel trailer.

[Northofu1]

My 1500 towed my trailer fine over hilly and flat land. No sway, wasn't pushed around by trucks passing. I was at the top end of payload and gcvwr, but I also made sure my rear end was stable and I will stand by the blue ox sway pro hitch. Drove a little slower, mapped my routes accordingly. I think once the real numbers are looked at, as long as you're not grossly over capacity and your mind set changes, you can do what you can to eliminate the sway, and be safer on the road until you can upgrade. Get a better hitch, put some better shocks in it, maybe some 1000lb air bags it won't get you more pay load, but it will stiffen it up, which helps.

[vampress_me]

Question for the experts on the OP’s post. Long time ago when I joined the forum, one of the biggies at the time was “if you have X for wheel base length on your TV, you should stick to Y for TT length”. Does this line of thought not factor in anymore? Been disproved? I just never see it brought up anymore when dealing with smaller TV and larger TT. Now, everyone focuses on just the weights.

[JRTJH]

Question for the experts on the OP’s post. Long time ago when I joined the forum, one of the biggies at the time was “if you have X for wheel base length on your TV, you should stick to Y for TT length”. Does this line of thought not factor in anymore? Been disproved? I just never see it brought up anymore when dealing with smaller TV and larger TT. Now, everyone focuses on just the weights.

The "generalized rule of thumb" goes like this:
For the first 110" of wheelbase, this allows you 20' of trailer.
For each additional 4" of wheelbase, this gets you 1' more of trailer."

That has been around since Lucy and Desi pulled the "long, long trailer" on their adventures.... A lot has changed since then, improved hitches, anti-sway electronics in vehicles, anti-skid braking systems just to name a few....

So, there's no "hard and fast rule" regarding tow vehicle wheelbase to trailer length ratio, but it's still "clearly evident" that the shorter the wheelbase and/or the longer the trailer, the more unstable the rig will be.

I'd guess that with the new "Blazer and Bronco" models coming out, if they are actually short wheelbase vehicles with large, powerful engines, we're going to see a significant increase in people towing with them which will probably bring us back to including the wheelbase as important in towing stability. Right now, most vehicles used for towing are in the 140+ inch wheelbase category.

Here's one "expert opinion": https://www.etrailer.com/question-301694.html

[Northofu1]

My new 2500 is the same length as my 1500 was, not exactly thrilled with etrailer's expertise in anything rv related.
I saw an awful lot of 3/4 tons pulling 5th wheels that were so overweight, I had to laugh. Made me feel like I wasn't that out of line with the 1500 combo.

[vampress_me]

Thank you, John!

I’ve just been curious over the past few months when questions like this come up, because it seems like the finger gets pointed at weight immediately, and no one brings up trailer length/ wheelbase anymore (probably rightly so, since many have been overloaded). I just took a quick look at wheelbase for a 2020 Tundra CC SB - 145.7”. So, using the rule of thumb for that truck, I get 29’ (technically 28.93’ LOL) length for trailer. Very close to the 30’ actual trailer in this post, but is my math working correctly? Which may also contribute to the sway being seen? Or is that where the bars are supposed to help compensate for a shorter wheelbase? I have no clue, just am curious, since I’ve never towed a TT with a short wheelbase vehicle.

[JRTJH]

In 1993 I had a F250 SuperCab 7.3l Diesel to tow our HR 34CBFK (35'8"). It towed like a dream. We bought a 1996 Bronco (white with the OJ motif)... It had a 351 4 speed automatic, so I thought, now we'll have 2 trucks to tow the trailer. I had a brake control installed, hitched the HR to the Bronco and we headed down I-49 from Alexandria to Lafayette for the weekend. We made it all the way to Woodworth (famous for its speed traps) before I turned around and limped at 45MPH back to the house to hitch up to the truck and resume the trip. That 105" wheelbase was the most unstable tow vehicle I've ever had the "displeasure" of driving... After hitching to the F250, we towed to the campground with "one hand on the wheel at 65-70 MPH"....

While I won't say that one experience with towing the trailer with a long versus short wheelbase vehicle makes me an expert, I can say that even with my "amateur status" I could immediately tell that there was a significant difference in rig stability between the two tow vehicles with the identical trailer, loaded and hitched exactly the same way.....

[jsb5717]

That actually might be one of the best examples I've heard. Most of us don't have the opportunity to experience that graphic of a comparison. Most don't have 2 TV's lying around. We typically are comparing our complete set ups with someone elses so there are always variables which make some question conventional wisdom and experience.

[JRTJH]

That actually might be one of the best examples I've heard. Most of us don't have the opportunity to experience that graphic of a comparison. Most don't have 2 TV's lying around. We typically are comparing our complete set ups with someone elses so there are always variables which make some question conventional wisdom and experience.

The F250 supercab long bed diesel had a wheelbase of 155". The Bronco wheelbase was 105". That extra 50" made all the difference in the world when towing our HR 35' travel trailer. The only thing changed out was the tow vehicle. The trailer loading was never changed, the weight distribution hitch was "essentially the same" as both vehicle receivers were the same height, so the WD bars and chains were "set up in the same chain length". I'd guess, about as close as possible to "identical trailer behind the two vehicles"....

Granted, the Bronco was "overloaded" by the trailer weight rating, but using "the internet logic" that it sat level so it must be OK without airbags, well, you get the picture...

Every time I got above about 50MPH, the back of the trailer would start to whip a bit, any (and I mean ANY) correction on the steering wheel would immediately cause the trailer to swing at least a full lane width in both directions and put the front of the Bronco in a "crisis overcorrection mode"... It was almost like I was driving on ice but still had traction. Definitely not the kind of towing experience that inspires "confidence and a desire to go faster".....

[FlyingAroundRV]

I think you already know the answer to the question on is your truck enough to tow that trailer. The reason you are getting pushed around by semi trucks is your truck is not big enough. Sorry, I’m sure that is not what you wanted to hear. In my opinion, you should be towing with a 3/4 ton truck or bigger for a 30 foot travel trailer.
^^^This
We have a 27' Outback and tow with a 2015 2WD F250 CC. Our WDH is rated to 1200#. I haven't yet weighed our rig (but plan to) but it is solid as a rock when the semis whizz past me. Yes, I feel it pushed to the side, but the whole setup feels the same as just the truck by itself. We also have the Husky Centerline WDH.
IMO, a Tundra is not sufficient for a 30' TT, that is why we didn't buy one, even though I was very keen on them as a truck for their build and finish quality and durability.

[WSCY]

I have made the decision to upgrade my WDH to a BlueOx 1500 TW and 15K gross weight towing. I am not in a position to replace my 2019 Tundra that is less than year old. We will see how much it helps.

[sourdough]

I have no experience with the Blue Ox but I've read some good comments about it and, from your description of your original hitch, you needed an upgrade.

You are experiencing the typical issues from using a 1/2 ton truck with a larger trailer. The hitch will help but always bear in mind that the 1/2 ton is meant primarily as a comfortable grocery getter and "light" hauler of some 2x4s, plywood, washing machine etc. Not a lot of weight strapped on the back of the frame that subjects the truck to all kinds of pushes, pulls, shoves and twists. The primary purpose listed above is why they come with light duty springs, shocks, tires, ring and pinon, axles, u joints etc. etc.

Replacing the WDH/sway is a start but researching your vehicle I didn't see any option for a tire upgrade; they are all P rated tires (passenger). That in and of itself will allow the push/pull because the softer sidewalls flex and allow the truck to "slide" left and right when subjected to the push/pull of trucks, wind etc. They need to be LTs. Springs are softer so they will allow the same thing. It doesn't make a lot of sense to try to replace the springs on a new truck but I would put in a set of air bags. It won't increase the payload but it will "stiffen" the movement of the body/axle and minimize just one more weak spot. The shocks are "soft" as well so going to the grocery store is "comfortable" - not stiff to minimize body roll and sway. Replace them with a heavy duty shock; I use/used Bilsteins.

BTW, I did all of the above on my last 1 year old 1/2 ton and it helped. If a different truck is out of the question then I would recommend all of the above and hopefully it can make the towing experience more bearable. Ultimately the cure for me was an HD truck....and it has been a night and day towing difference. In your case, your trailer is lighter and shorter than mine so the above mods might make enough improvement to live with.

[hondapro87]

I think the op is feeling the bow wave effect when the semis pass, IMHO you will never get rid of it completely.
I would suggest a Hensley hitch to help if you cannot go to a larger truck.

[rczapla]

Tow hitch sway bar may not be enough. Soft suspension on your truck may be an issue. Air pressure on both your trailer and your TV. The rest of the forum seems to have reamed you pretty good about weights...so nuff said. I tow an Outback 335CG with a 1/2 ton 2010 F150 2WD crew cab (set up for towing). Used the same TV to tow a Keystone Springdale 266LR for the past 6 years. My money would be on the sway bar set up and weight distribution.

[teacherman]

I have no experience with the Blue Ox but I've read some good comments about it and, from your description of your original hitch, you needed an upgrade.

You are experiencing the typical issues from using a 1/2 ton truck with a larger trailer. The hitch will help but always bear in mind that the 1/2 ton is meant primarily as a comfortable grocery getter and "light" hauler of some 2x4s, plywood, washing machine etc. Not a lot of weight strapped on the back of the frame that subjects the truck to all kinds of pushes, pulls, shoves and twists. The primary purpose listed above is why they come with light duty springs, shocks, tires, ring and pinon, axles, u joints etc. etc.

Replacing the WDH/sway is a start but researching your vehicle I didn't see any option for a tire upgrade; they are all P rated tires (passenger). That in and of itself will allow the push/pull because the softer sidewalls flex and allow the truck to "slide" left and right when subjected to the push/pull of trucks, wind etc. They need to be LTs. Springs are softer so they will allow the same thing. It doesn't make a lot of sense to try to replace the springs on a new truck but I would put in a set of air bags. It won't increase the payload but it will "stiffen" the movement of the body/axle and minimize just one more weak spot. The shocks are "soft" as well so going to the grocery store is "comfortable" - not stiff to minimize body roll and sway. Replace them with a heavy duty shock; I use/used Bilsteins.

BTW, I did all of the above on my last 1 year old 1/2 ton and it helped. If a different truck is out of the question then I would recommend all of the above and hopefully it can make the towing experience more bearable. Ultimately the cure for me was an HD truck....and it has been a night and day towing difference. In your case, your trailer is lighter and shorter than mine so the above mods might make enough improvement to live with.

Tow hitch sway bar may not be enough. Soft suspension on your truck may be an issue. Air pressure on both your trailer and your TV. The rest of the forum seems to have reamed you pretty good about weights...so nuff said. I tow an Outback 335CG with a 1/2 ton 2010 F150 2WD crew cab (set up for towing). Used the same TV to tow a Keystone Springdale 266LR for the past 6 years. My money would be on the sway bar set up and weight distribution.

These ideas make a lot of sense. I'm personally a fan of heavy Chevys, but many people like the Tundra. Seems towing on soft springs and P tires is risky (do they make a 10 ply rated for that wheel size?). I recall putting a pair of Monroe air shocks on my 1983 C20 (bigger drums, 1 ton undercarriage), and it got so stiff I had to let all the air out to drive around town without Prep H. That truck could haul 5k# of gravel smooth as silk. Nothing like a stout set of springs...
If the toyo has leafs, I'd see about adding one, that's not too pricey a fix.

[bbells]

I have a tundra and have no unusual problems. Same speeds. Trucks will cause sway with any vehicle. Suggestions. Re setup your weight distribution and sway bars. If your dealer did it it is probably wrong. Check the trailer wheel alignment. Mine was screwy from the start and caused what felt like swaying. Remember your truck has built in sway control. You could be feeling that.

[n1282x]

I have towed bumper hitch trailers for many years in the symptoms that you are describing are completely normal. I even towed a 32 foot bumper pull with a 1 ton dually and it did the same thing so I do not personally believe it has anything to do with being outmatched. Your tundra is probably a better truck than a Detroit half ton. I would advise you to keep a look out in your mirrors for semis and just be ready for them and anticipate as they pass.

[CaptnJohn]

Borrow an Equalizer 5 point with 1000# bars. That may fix the problem if you have LT and not P tires. If not the 1st 3 letters answered your question. A TOY is not a truck for work.

[WDPatterson]

This is an aerodynamic thing, not a weight thing. You're encountering the "air-wall" that is being created by that semi you're passing. It creates a current of air which pushes you away, up front, but causes a low-pressure (vacuum) rearward. Your trailure is being "sucked" toward the semi-trailer.

You may want to steer farther to the left, when passing. Anticipate the air-wall, and correct for it.

Otherwise, a bigger truck may be necessary.

Do you have a distribution hitch??

[BadmanRick]

I have a 2017 Platinum Tundra 4X4 crew max. It has the full tow package which includes built in anti sway control. It works very well. Yes I also get pushed around by the idiot semis doing 80 plus mph. So do all the rest of the RVERS out there. Nothing new. A better WD hitch MAY HELP OR IT MAY NOT. i always drive looking in the mirrors to see what’s passing me and prepare for the worst. I have driven semis busses and other trucks and all have sway issues. Don’t blame the tundra it’s a great truck. Remember you are pulling a 30 foot sail behind you. The wind will blow it all over the place. Just be proactive with with your driving.

[JRTJH]

.... Remember you are pulling a 30 foot sail behind you. The wind will blow it all over the place. Just be proactive with with your driving.

If you owned a 30' sailboat, using a 5 pound plastic "mushroom anchor" would "blow your boat around" when compared to a 40 pound Danforth anchor with the appropriate chain lead. While it's not "the same thing" (no anchors involved) the concept is very similar: A 30' sail (flat wall RV) is going to push/pull a small "anchor" (light weight tow vehicle) more than a large "anchor" (heavy weight tow vehicle).

There's a reason the auto manufacturers use flatbed trailers and steel ingots for weight when testing "tow capacity/tow performance"... It's to prevent the "anchor from letting the boat float away".... Or to be more precise, it's to prevent the RV size trailer from causing steering/control problems during the test.....

[falcondan95705]

From your measurements you are 1200 over your capacity.. we never feel a push even in 70mph winds..we are using a dually however.

[LCrabtree]

You got a lot of responses about vehicle weights, but I didn't see anyone answer the basic question; instead everyone has advice about weights ...


We experience the same phenomenon with our 19' TT. Here is what is happening. As we pull the trailer we also pull a bunch of air with us, much more that the pickup alone. This pushes a cushion of air in front of the trailer which slips down both sides and increases the relative air pressure in the front and on both sides. A big rig does the exact same thing. When a big rig passes on my left side, as the rig comes even with my setup, the two cushions of air sort of meld into one cushion in the front, with one on the right side of my setup and one of the left side of the big rig, so higher relative air pressure in those areas; however, the space between the two no longer has higher relative air pressure, so the higher relative air pressure on the right side of my rig tends to push us to the left. The same thing is happening to the big rig, except that because of its mass the effect is dramatically reduced. Test the theory ... one big rig will cause a noticeable effect on my setup, but the very next big rig causes virtually no effect - because the two different big rigs are aerodynamically different, pushing different amounts of air cushions. also the larger the mass of your setup and the more aerodynamic your setup, the less you are likely to notice this effect.

[markjamestx]

I am pulling a 31 FT Bullet Premier with a Tundra Crew Max, yes it is typical but I stopping mine altogether by switching to a Fastway G2 10K Trunion WDH. No sway at all even with a blowout. I do have Airlift air bags and sway bars on the truck.

UPDATE: Just in case any one the experts out there comes into this post and says I am over weight, they would be wrong. My truck is a 4X4 with full tow package and Toyota's biggest engine (386 HP/410 # Torque with 3:73's) It's rated at 10,600/15,800#, the trailer is 8800# with cargo and on the scales the gross weight is 14,900#. No problem, have pulled over 20,000 miles in two years with no issues at all. In case you don't know, the Tundra has a 3/4 Ton chassis, but 1/2 Ton suspension (5 bolts). The TT and the Truck have 10 ply Grade E tires.

[crTundra]

I am pulling a 31 FT Bullet Premier with a Tundra Crew Max, yes it is typical but I stopping mine altogether by switching to a Fastway G2 10K Trunion WDH. No sway at all even with a blowout. I do have Airlift air bags and sway bars on the truck.

UPDATE: Just in case any one the experts out there comes into this post and says I am over weight, they would be wrong. My truck is a 4X4 with full tow package and Toyota's biggest engine (386 HP/410 # Torque with 3:73's) It's rated at 10,600/15,800#, the trailer is 8800# with cargo and on the scales the gross weight is 14,900#. No problem, have pulled over 20,000 miles in two years with no issues at all. In case you don't know, the Tundra has a 3/4 Ton chassis, but 1/2 Ton suspension (5 bolts). The TT and the Truck have 10 ply Grade E tires.

First let me say that I have a 2011 Tundra Double Cab with the 5.7 and I tow a 2017 Keystone 2810bh (your truck should have the 4:30 rear end too). I love my Tundra but they just don't have the payload rating. I've towed a couple travel trailers over the years and it hasn't let me down from Colorado to California. It's pulled great with load range E tires and Equalizer WDH hitch. Now that I'm shopping for a bigger truck I've discovered the max payload I can find for a Crewmax is around 1200 pounds depending on the trim. That gets eaten up very quickly with trailer hitch weight, stuff in the truck, topper, etc. Yes, it can tow up to 10,800 pounds but it's typically the payload that comes into play when Tundras are "overweight".

[notanlines]

I believe it is a Chinese idiom that reads "There's none so deaf as those who will not hear." It is hard to believe that one's new truck won't exactly perform up to the expectations and promises of the advertising on television. Some will buy into the facts and some will buy the truck because it is a very, very shiny blue. (Or ruby red in our case :D)

[crTundra]

I'll say that switching to load range E tires made the biggest difference on my Tundra when it came to the big rig push effect. I think those in combination with the Equalizer WDH properly configured is the magic ticket.