Our indoor waterfall, 14 months old - after dealer fix

[Wisconsin Traveler]

Just want to share the results with our Keystone Hideout 175 LHS purchased in May of 2018 from Schiek's in Fond du Lac, Wisconsin. This camper was stored nearly 7 months over the winter.

After removal from storage, and at our first outing this year my wife found water had been coming in on the shelf above the main bunk. We took it back to Schiek's, where purchased, and explained where water was found and where we believed it may be entering (I didn't want to do anything because I thought the warranty was still in effect.)

Schiek's said they had it taken care of, these are videos after the repairs made by Schiek's.

I was shocked that the camper leaked at all, but especially after repairs had been made?

This video was the result after a rain, before we could get it in to another dealer. Water in the lights, on the bunk, in the ceiling - unbelievable. Sad, sad, sad.



https://drive.google.com/open?id=1nAlo3_h2BnK9blR-lCOa78A0-1BPH-_d

[Wisconsin Traveler]

This is the initial video after repairs were made by Schiek's. We began to wash the camper when we realized water was still coming in.

The leak issue has been sealed by another dealer - the opening never should have been missed by Schiek's - and wouldn't have if they had tested their work.

Unfortunately, another issue has been found with the roof, and we have been waiting for a response from Keystone for two weeks.



https://drive.google.com/open?id=1Dy53kfFrSujNserOaBqauOMIQg1Yn53X

[jsb5717]

There are factory imperfections that we all deal with as just a part of owning an RV. This is way beyond that. Did it leak before you put it into storage? How was it stored?

Have you contacted Keystone about this? - I see now that you have

[Wisconsin Traveler]

It was purchased new in May of 2018, with an August 2017 build date. Into storage, large aluminum building, mid- October, out in April 2019. The water was noticed when we first took it camping this year. Dealer called, appointment scheduled, caulking complete - problem fixed, they said. I was charged for the repair, but received a refund after showing Schiek's the video and asking if they tested for leaks after the repair.

On the phone, Brittanie, at Keystone, was receptive. The decision was made to take it to another of their dealers and they would review the findings. As stated, it's been approximately 2 weeks and I haven't heard that a decision was made.

The good news is that the dealer showed me the area that was leaking, and they sealed and successfully tested. One concern is the damage that was done by the water that entered and that you cannot see.

I understand the need for maintenance, but this was not just a leaky window. And I thought the warranty covered for a year, then 3 years structural. I just thought that a leak of this magnitude would have to be something substantial. And at least, poor workmanship to allow this on a new unit.

And there are two other areas on the roof that are of concern - not for water entry, but possibly structural.

[Wisconsin Traveler]

A secondary dealer inspected our camper, found the leak cause and sealed it. They found two other areas where the wood has let loose under the roof membrane.

Keystone denied any warranty claims. I thought a 3 year structural would meet this camper's issues - but I guess denial is less expensive.

So don't count on Keystone to stand behind their products. The initial leak did appear to be a result of the build.

The second dealership we worked with has been wonderful, under the circumstances. Once our attorney works this out, we'll make sure we purchase a new camper from them - just not a Keystone or any associated company.

[Wisconsin Traveler]

And Wisconsin's Lemon Law doesn't address this classification, so we will refer to the Magnuson–Moss Warranty Act, which will hopefully yield results from Keystone.

[sourdough]

"The federal minimum standards for full warranties are waived if the warrantor can show that the problem associated with a warranted consumer product was caused by damage while in the possession of the consumer, or by unreasonable use, including a failure to provide reasonable and necessary maintenance."


"Roof - In most cases, the roof assembly consists of the interior paneling, a truss system, insulation, roof decking (plywood, OSB) and a rubber roof or TPO which is glued to the roof decking. Because of the manufacturing process, air pockets and/or visible spots may be seen in the rubber roof. These visible spots can be caused by debris (wood, staples, screws, etc.) that are between the rubber roof and decking or by imperfections occurring during the rubber roof manufacturer. In most cases, these are considered cosmetic in nature and seldom require any corrective action."

"Roof Seams and/or Joints - Roof sealants will deteriorate which can lead to leaks. Deterioration can be accelerated in heavy sun, changes in climates (expansion/contraction with aggressive temperature change), and cold climates. Once the unit leaves our manufacturing facilities, we can no longer maintain the sealants, that becomes your responsibility. We hope you take this seriously because it can help prevent a very frustrating situation that can be very expensive to remedy (damage from water leaks). Inspect the roof at least every 90 days, paying close attention to all seams and/or joints and attachments where sealant is used. Look for cracks, shrinkage and/or gaps/voids in the sealants. These must be carefully cleaned and resealed. It is necessary to use the same sealant as originally installed if touching up cracks, shrinkage and gaps/ voids. There is no way to know if 2 different brands of sealant will seal to each other. DO NOT use any type of silicone product on the rubber roof material. If there any doubt in your mind in performing this maintenance, please contract with your local dealer to have it done. Please refer to the manufacturer instructions supplied with the unit for care and operation and/or www.dicor.com."



The top paragraph is from the Magnuson-Moss Act (red) and the lime green ones are from the Keystone owner's manual.

I feel for your situation but have serious doubts that you will have any success with your actions. You said the trailer was in storage for approx. 7 mos. which means it was out and about for the other 7 mos. - what happened during that time? You should inspect the roof every 90 days and repair as needed. It needs to be documented - has that been done? I also read one Keystone document that stated it had to be done and documented by a dealer but I don't think that holds up.

I would love to see you get the unit repaired, I'm just pointing out that many, many folks with roof issues have been denied warranty coverage. All they have to prove is that there is the likelihood that the damage occurred during use or from neglect - whether it did or didn't. Good luck but I wouldn't be looking at new trailers yet if it were me.

[Wisconsin Traveler]

Thanks for your reply. And in it lies the problem with actually standing behind a product, and hiding behind lengthy and twisting warranties. Our roof leaked BEFORE and AFTER being serivced by the original dealer. And was identified by another Keystone dealer as being a build issue, as well as the other areas of the roof beneath the membrane.

Keystone is not alone today, but it is sad, if nothing else, that companies do not back their dealers - as well as their customers.

I'll present all our information to our attorney, and even though it may seem cut and dry - sometimes the decision is put in front of someone who still believes in common sense, rather than a legal roller coaster.

At the least, I've shared my Keystone experience with others, so they know what to expect if a problem arises within the 3 year structural warranty - which helped us make our buying decision.

[Customer1]

I'm puzzled how you can reason that a leak should be covered as structural. My definition of structural is not the same as yours. Did the frame twist causing the body to split and cause the leak? THAT would be structural.

I think your issue is with the selling dealer that didn't do a thorough PDI and with the repairing dealer that did the original repair. If it is the same dealer in both instances, then you got screwed twice by the same dealer.

All RV manufacturers rely on the dealer to perform quality control during the PDI. Very few manufacturers do any quality control at the factory, it's just the way it works.

[notanlines]

Lyle, I hope you can read between the lines enough to know that every one of us is on your side. We may have differing opinions on how to handle the situation, however. I like to start with catching the flies with honey, and then immediately swap to the fly swatter when the honey fails.
Keep in mind that Thor has an entire legal team at the ready, trained to run your legal fees beyond reason. Don't tell the dealer that you are getting legal help. That is known as a threat. Actual legal action takes away the bluff. But be prepared to pay for the satisfaction. Remember, we're on your side.

[Wisconsin Traveler]

Thanks for the replies. I did try the proper channels, and communication.

No threats on my part to anyone or party. I will present the facts and see how things turn out. Sometimes honesty is actually the best policy. This is the path afforded for resolution, so it is the one we must follow. Will it be expensive? Probably. But less than the value lost in the unit.

It does make me sad that society, in general, accepts the lack of support from a variety of sellers. A product that fails during the use it was designed for - regardless of the product, is a failure. If we buy without a warranty, that is understood. My understanding, in this case, differs.

I'll update when concluded. Just ask one question next time you're at a dealer. "What does the warranty actually cover?"

[BillMc]

Keystone will not cover the roof. They never do. They will tell you that it is your responsibility to check the roof every 6 months (it’s in their documentation). I beat that by getting a zero deductible on my private insurance. It’s a bit more expensive every month. But I’m not paying for water damage (not if it happens) but when it happens. I had my roof repaired after a tree limb went through it. 2 years later I had my whole roof repaired because the facility didn’t do it right and the roof and the front cap had to be replaced. Saved me 7K in out of pocket expenses.

[jgtaylor74]

Have your considered contacting Trailer Life's column called: "RV Resolutions" they help with situations between dealers, manufacturers, etc.

Requirements are (at end of each column): After exhausting all other resources without success (sounds like you have), mail a typed letter to Trailer Life RV Resolutions, 2750 Park View Court, Suite 240; Oxnard, CA 93036. Include copies of appropriate bills and correspondence along with a self-addressed, stamped envelope. Selected letters will be edited and published unless otherwise requested.

Don't know if it will help but may be worth a try. Just a thought.

We had a water leak around the back window in our 2017 279RKSWE but this was corrected by a Keystone dealer in Indiana even though we purchased in Colorado.

[Frosty46]

Do give the offending dealer the opportunity to make this right. In person with multiple witnesses is smart. Then without mentioning it seek legal help if they decline. Should this dealer be of the norm in my experience they are crooks with bad techs. Never talk to them after the offer to make it right-----in writing. Let your lawyer do that for you.

[Tbos]

Please let us know how it goes.

[Wisconsin Traveler]

I will update when all is complete - however it turns out.

[6.2 Superduty]

I will update when all is complete - however it turns out.


Any resolution?

[JRTJH]

I will update when all is complete - however it turns out.

Any resolution?

Wisconsin Traveler posted the above post on 9-17-2019 at 6:26PM. His profile indicates his Last Activity: 10-04-2019 08:03 AM when he logged out of the forum. He has not returned since that date 4 months ago.