bought a 239ML

[ScottM]

After several years without an RV. The wife and I got the itch again. I wanted something that would be very easy on my silverado 1500 and the Wife insisted on bunks for Grandbabies. This seems like a perfect fit. The dealer was 3 hours away. The local salesman wouldnt even counter my offer. So after he spent all morning showing us around He loses to a salesman who didnt have to do a thing but answer the phone and say yes.

The Silverado towed it with ease. 2/3 full of fresh water and full of propane the truck hitch barely went down. 30 psi in the airbags leveled it perfect and away we went. I dont see the need for a WDH as of yet.

Stayed at a local campground that night compliments of the dealer to shake it out. It even rained for us to do a leak check. All was good ( for an RV that is) We have showed this industry we will still buy them even with quality issues so I keep the bar kind of low.

[travelin texans]

There are 3 things absolutely required for owning a RV,
#1 a good hitch, whether it be a 5th wheel hitch or a WDH for TT.
#2 a surge protector/EMS connected EVERY TIME the RV connected to shore power.
#3 an adjustable water pressure regulator used every time.
My point is, YES you NEED the WDH with sway control before towing a TT.

[ScottM]

If the weight on the hitch is so litlle that is doesnt effect the truck or trailer why must I distribute some of it to the front ? Im happy to buy one. Im just not sure its needed. Sway control is a different issue. I can buy that as a stand alone feature. I drove this setup for 3 hours up and down and around the mountains of Pa. passing and being passed by trucks. It was easy as could be. Genuinely interested in peoples opinions on this one.

as for items 1 and 2. I will pass. had a pressure regulator. all it did was lower the pressure to a trickle and I never had a surge protector in my house and ive had brown outs and power failures over the years and my TV's and computers cope with it fine and nothing is going to help you with a lightning strike.

[ScottM]

side view with truck

[travelin texans]

If the weight on the hitch is so litlle that is doesnt effect the truck or trailer why must I distribute some of it to the front ? Im happy to buy one. Im just not sure its needed. Sway control is a different issue. I can buy that as a stand alone feature. I drove this setup for 3 hours up and down and around the mountains of Pa. passing and being passed by trucks. It was easy as could be. Genuinely interested in peoples opinions on this one.

as for items 1 and 2. I will pass. had a pressure regulator. all it did was lower the pressure to a trickle and I never had a surge protector in my house and ive had brown outs and power failures over the years and my TV's and computers cope with it fine and nothing is going to help you with a lightning strike.

Passing on #1 is totally your choice!
Passing on #2 for the reason you stated is comparing apples to bananas. Mine has saved my rv twice that I'm aware of!
As for #3 you were most likely using one of the crappy "restrictors" & I'll agree that that's all they're good for. A true "regulator" won't restrict the flow but does reduce the pressure. Been to parks with over 100 psi & wouldn't trust the restrictor to handle that much, but sure want something to prevent damage to RV plumbing.
Good luck!

[Tbos]

I had a 238ML towed by a 1500. Towed great and find the need airbags because I used a good WDH. You shouldn’t have needed the bags either. A good hitch like the Equalizer 4 point also reduces sway.

[ScottM]

airbags are there for the wood pellets in the winter. I just put some air in the bags to smooth out the bumps and to level it an inch or so. The truck has a GVWR of 7260 the Trailer has a max gross of 5280. The truck weighs a ton more than the trailer. If there is only about 450 to 480 lbs on the hitch and thats 10 percent of the load and your truck and trailer are level. Why do you need to distribute weight to the front ? I would understand if the hitch had 1000 lbs on it. Genuinley interested in learning about it. Happy to be wrong. Happy to buy a WDH. Just like to know why I need it. The salesman even said it was not needed and He gets paid to sell them. the guy in the shop who set the hitch up said I didnt need it and he does it for a living.

[Retired Copper]

Congrads on the new PassPort. You may not need a good wdh with built in sway control until is to late. Mine toad very well until I got into a perfect storm like situation and when the sway control on the truck kicked in it will make your butt pucker the first time you experience it and that was with a cheap wdh with sway control. You can bet that the very next day I got the one I wanted to start with and never have had another issue. Glad all is working well for you and wish you the best and hope it never happens to you.

[Buckeyexx]

Not sure what you are trying show in your picture. Just a picture of the truck and trailer to show what you have or to show it is not squatting the truck? I have a 2017 239ml but tow it with a Dodge Ram. Once I have the front storage area loaded up and the propane tanks full and especially if I have water in the holding tank it definitely squats the truck. I run a blue ox weight distribution hitch along with air lift 1000 bags to level the truck out. Probably don’t have to run the bags but makes the bumps much more tolerable. I have towed it without the weight distribution hitch from storage to home but definitely wouldn’t tow it far with out.

[sourdough]

You're pulling a 5400 lb. trailer with a 1500. All well and good. Truck weighs a "ton" more than the trailer? I highly doubt it. Maybe equal but I doubt that as well.

You have a 26' x 11' sail behind that 1500 - it has to have stabilization for it to be safe - distribution and weight wise. Air bags have their place but they don't replace a wdh. I have not had a sway control not associated with a wdh nor have I ever seen one. IMO you don't skimp on wdh and sway controls.

You seemingly have your mind made up that you've got it all worked out; the prior posts, and those that follow, will tell you otherwise I'm sure. And, for my own edification, if you are talking about taking grandbabies, why in the world are you trying to find a way to cheap out instead of going over the top to be safe? JMO/YMMV

[ScottM]

My goodness there is so much wrong with your post I hardly know where to begin. Did you even read anything I wrote ? The gross weight numbers I wrote down are accurate. Do you need me to subtract them for you ?

The sail you refer to has nothing to do with a WDH. It is a function dealt with by the sway control system which is incorporated in most WDH systems. No one doubts the benifit of sway control on a travel trailer. Sway control can be purchased seperatly if The tounge weight is ideal without the WDH.

If you read my post you would have read that my mind is not made up at all. I am trying to assertain the ideal tounge weight of my specifc configuration and then determine if a WDH is needed. I asked some specific questions but all I got in reply was a bunch of toungelashing from the weight police full of opinion and no data whatsoever.

If you read my post you would have read where I said I would be happy to be shown where I am wrong and happy to buy a hitch but you dont seem to be able to do that either. I paid cash for the truck, I paid cash for the trailer and can darn sure pay cash for the hitch but I will do it after I have gotten an education on the subject. using data. Not because a bunch of people on a forum say you need one without supporting facts or because I was sold one by an RV salesman

[ScottM]

Wasnt getting much usefull info here so I looked elsewhere. I will use this as a guide to make an educated decision.

https://www.fastwaytrailer.com/blog/should-i-use-a-ball-mount-or-weight-distribution-hitch

[chuckster57]

EMS: best protection you can get for all the components in your RV. Lightning isn’t the only danger. Over/under voltage will take out an appliance before you can react. A quality EMS will shut the power off before it makes it to your trailer.

Water regulator: I have been in parks with 110 PSI at the spigot, if it doesn’t split the per lines it will loosen the end clamps. There are quality regulators and I wouldn’t connect without one.

WD/sway: just because the salesman said you’ll be ok doesn’t mean he/she knows. We had a customer swear he didn’t need it. I hooked him up after his walk and away he went, 1/2 hr later he was back and we were installing it. WD/sway isn’t something you get after an “event” assuming that event allows you to continue using your rig. It’s good insurance against that “event”. You can’t control what the other drivers do and one time in a panic situation will make you rethink a whole lot of things.

Look at my signature, I have seen firsthand the effects of “I don’t need, don’t want...”. Everyone here is just trying to help you avoid the mistakes we have made. I wish you luck in your adventures and hope you never have any life altering events in your travels.

BTW the equalizer 4 pt is the Best Buy for the money IMO, but I don’t have any experience using it as I have towed fifth wheels since 1989.

[foldbak]

Ya what sourdough said! At the very least sway control.

[JRTJH]

Wasnt getting much usefull info here so I looked elsewhere. I will use this as a guide to make an educated decision.

https://www.fastwaytrailer.com/blog/should-i-use-a-ball-mount-or-weight-distribution-hitch

Looking at your link, there's a statement: "If you're towing a cargo trailer, camper or anything tall, then a weight distribution hitch like the E2 should be considered" The "logic" behind that statement is that any trailer that's "tall" (to use their verbage) will subject the tow vehicle to the "sail effect" and induce sway to the combination package that isn't a consideration with "utility trailers and boats".... In other words, Travel Trailers don't tow the same as "statistical trailers listed in the maximum towing capacity that's advertised in brochures from vehicle manufacturers"....

What the vast majority of posters in this thread are saying is, "You need a WD hitch for a trailer that size if you're going to be safe"

They speak from experience and using the link you provided, the author of that link also feels "at least" a weight distribution hitch like the E2 should be used. From my experience, the E2 is not really an "anti-sway hitch" and uses a "bolt on flat bracket (brake pad) type anti-sway device"... If it were me and I intended to keep the truck and trailer for any length of time, I'd opt to just go ahead and buy an E4 "anti-sway WD hitch" and be done with it, knowing that I'm getting "more than I might need" which is not really "overkill" as much as it is "conservative towing safety"....

As usual, if you've got your mind made up, the above is "wasted time" on my part, but, if you're really open to listening to experience and "been there/done that" events, then you really need to consider what the author of the link you provided suggests and get a WD hitch for the "not a regular utility trailer load" that you've strapped behind your "almost at the towing limit for a utility trailer weight" truck.

Yes, I'm in the "you need a WD hitch with sway control crowd too......

[travelin texans]

Don't think there's any pyhsics majors here, but from my experience you've added weight to the hitch therefore taken weight off the front. I don't know how to compute the ratio of on the rear off the front, but can tell you it does affect the overall handling of the tv. On flat roads in near perfect weather all is good, lots of trucks passing or hefty cross winds the difference will definitely be felt increasing the pucker factor 10 fold.
My suggestion is absolutely get a sway control, then take a few long trips with both loaded up for an extended trip & then decide on the WDH, I think you'll change your mind on the need for one. You'll then be like the rest of us that can't really explain the numbers or the geometry of the need, but will agree it's needed.

[66joej]

There are 3 things absolutely required for owning a RV,
#1 a good hitch, whether it be a 5th wheel hitch or a WDH for TT.
#2 a surge protector/EMS connected EVERY TIME the RV connected to shore power.
#3 an adjustable water pressure regulator used every time.
My point is, YES you NEED the WDH with sway control before towing a TT.

Not to pile on Scott but what Danny ^ said should be like buying insurance. You don't need it until you do. Please understand that most of us have "been there done that."
By the way welcome to the forum from Radium Hot Springs BC.

[ScottM]

Looking at your link, there's a statement: "If you're towing a cargo trailer, camper or anything tall, then a weight distribution hitch like the E2 should be considered" The "logic" behind that statement is that any trailer that's "tall" (to use their verbage) will subject the tow vehicle to the "sail effect" and induce sway to the combination package that isn't a consideration with "utility trailers and boats".... In other words, Travel Trailers don't tow the same as "statistical trailers listed in the maximum towing capacity that's advertised in brochures from vehicle manufacturers"....

What the vast majority of posters in this thread are saying is, "You need a WD hitch for a trailer that size if you're going to be safe"

They speak from experience and using the link you provided, the author of that link also feels "at least" a weight distribution hitch like the E2 should be used. From my experience, the E2 is not really an "anti-sway hitch" and uses a "bolt on flat bracket (brake pad) type anti-sway device"... If it were me and I intended to keep the truck and trailer for any length of time, I'd opt to just go ahead and buy an E4 "anti-sway WD hitch" and be done with it, knowing that I'm getting "more than I might need" which is not really "overkill" as much as it is "conservative towing safety"....

As usual, if you've got your mind made up, the above is "wasted time" on my part, but, if you're really open to listening to experience and "been there/done that" events, then you really need to consider what the author of the link you provided suggests and get a WD hitch for the "not a regular utility trailer load" that you've strapped behind your "almost at the towing limit for a utility trailer weight" truck.

Yes, I'm in the "you need a WD hitch with sway control crowd too......


finally. an intelligent reply. Thank you.

[JRTJH]

finally. an intelligent reply. Thank you.

Reading through this thread, there are lots of "intelligent replies".....

People may not say "what you want to hear/the way you want to hear it" but I read the same concept as I stated in my response from the majority of people who have posted a response to you. They ALL say that you need to consider a weight distribution hitch. Most say that the "sail effect" or "the large sidewall area" or "the load on the rear of your tow vehicle/reduction of front axle weight" make a WD hitch essential, not optional in the towing environment you're going to experience..........

Whatever you might choose to do is entirely up to you, but the "intelligent answer" from evey poster so far is: You need a weight distribution hitch to maximize your towing performance.....

[chuckster57]

My water pressure regulator
23406

[Voylyn]

Chuckster, what brand is that?

[chuckster57]

It says, Renator. It was in a trade-in that the new buyer didn’t want so I got it for a real good price. As you can see it’s adjustable. And has a filter
23410234092340823407

BTW, welcome to the forum!!

[Buckeyexx]

finally. an intelligent reply. Thank you.



I hope you don’t need more help in the future with replies like that! Good luck to you and hope all goes well.

[travelin texans]

My water pressure regulator
23406

Now that right there is a regulator!!
That little short brass thing the dealer may have given you is NOT!

[Bamabox]

Under the category of FWIW, we have an Anderson WD hitch and works very well especially for sway. Had the trailer, our first, for 3 seasons now, so have no frame of reference compared to others, but have read lots of reviews that seem to agree. I, like you originally felt, no need for WD hitch. Ram 3500, towing a 21RBS, big truck little trailer, I’m all set. Tow the camper home from the dealer, about an hour on the interstate being passed by big rigs, get home and immediately sit down on the computer and start looking at ratings on WD hitches. Ended up with the Anderson. Night and day, even with the one ton.

[Bamabox]

It says, Renator. It was in a trade-in that the new buyer didn’t want so I got it for a real good price. As you can see it’s adjustable. And has a filter
23410234092340823407

BTW, welcome to the forum!!

Currently using the cheap restrictor, and see the wisdom in the adjustable regulator, for a host of reasons. Safety or course, but also for decent water flow, especially when basking in the luxury of full hookups. So the urban legend is 45 psi is where you want to be for safety. What psi are our trailers truly rated for? 50 safe? 55?

[66joej]

Currently using the cheap restrictor, and see the wisdom in the adjustable regulator, for a host of reasons. Safety or course, but also for decent water flow, especially when basking in the luxury of full hookups. So the urban legend is 45 psi is where you want to be for safety. What psi are our trailers truly rated for? 50 safe? 55?

I have my regulator set at 60#. Seems to be good with no leaks. Anything less and the water just seems to be a trickle. YMMV

[JRTJH]

Currently using the cheap restrictor, and see the wisdom in the adjustable regulator, for a host of reasons. Safety or course, but also for decent water flow, especially when basking in the luxury of full hookups. So the urban legend is 45 psi is where you want to be for safety. What psi are our trailers truly rated for? 50 safe? 55?

I have never seen any "certified pressure rating" on any RV. Typically, just like a chain, the plumbing system in an RV is only as strong as the weakest link. There are LOTS of "weak links" in all RV plumbing systems. Consider PEX pipe as probably the strongest component, then you have ABS fittings, crimped connections, vinyl hose connecting adapters, plastic faucets, long plumbing runs that twist, vibrate and loosen with every tow and workmanship that includes the possibility that a staple, screw or pneumatic nail may have been driven into or scarred any of the above components.

So, as for a "certified pressure rating" I'd suggest that's an "internet myth" or a "urban legend".... In reality, most 12 volt pumps operate at around 40-45 PSI and usually provide adequate (don't confuse adequate with similar to a home) pressure and volume for most use.

Remember that in an RV there is much more to consider than pressure. While it's refreshing to shower with "almost stinging water pressure" that also uses significantly more water (gallons per minute) than a "adequate to get clean" shower. When dry camping, it's just as important to conserve available supplies and not fill the gray tank too rapidly, so the plumbing system is designed to provide "adequate" not "just like home" performance which also keeps the pressure low enough that it won't damage the "twisted, cheap components which "aren't certified to be leakproof at any pressure"...... When connected to a city water source and there's no need to conserve water because of limited supply or storage concerns, that same "low pressure/low volume" designed system can't "be all things for a high pressure system"...

[Bamabox]

I have never seen any "certified pressure rating" on any RV. Typically, just like a chain, the plumbing system in an RV is only as strong as the weakest link. There are LOTS of "weak links" in all RV plumbing systems. Consider PEX pipe as probably the strongest component, then you have ABS fittings, crimped connections, vinyl hose connecting adapters, plastic faucets, long plumbing runs that twist, vibrate and loosen with every tow and workmanship that includes the possibility that a staple, screw or pneumatic nail may have been driven into or scarred any of the above components.

So, as for a "certified pressure rating" I'd suggest that's an "internet myth" or a "urban legend".... In reality, most 12 volt pumps operate at around 40-45 PSI and usually provide adequate (don't confuse adequate with similar to a home) pressure and volume for most use.

Remember that in an RV there is much more to consider than pressure. While it's refreshing to shower with "almost stinging water pressure" that also uses significantly more water (gallons per minute) than a "adequate to get clean" shower. When dry camping, it's just as important to conserve available supplies and not fill the gray tank too rapidly, so the plumbing system is designed to provide "adequate" not "just like home" performance which also keeps the pressure low enough that it won't damage the "twisted, cheap components which "aren't certified to be leakproof at any pressure"...... When connected to a city water source and there's no need to conserve water because of limited supply or storage concerns, that same "low pressure/low volume" designed system can't "be all things for a high pressure system"...

Ok, that makes sense about the pumps being at 40-45 psi because I get better water flow from my pump and fresh tank than I do from any city water using the cheap restrictor. One more reason to get a real regulator.

[travelin texans]

Just to be clear, even with the adjustable regulator if the park has pressure lower than the set pressure on the regulator it WILL NOT increase the pressure, it only reduces high pressures. The restrictor restricts the flow at any/all pressures but more the higher the pressure.
My regulator came preset at 55 psi, which if the park had at least that much was a good pressure, most parks we stayed at were in the 40 psi range, kind of weak, & several were over 100.

[sourdough]

Just to be clear, even with the adjustable regulator if the park has pressure lower than the set pressure on the regulator it WILL NOT increase the pressure, it only reduces high pressures. The restrictor restricts the flow at any/all pressures but more the higher the pressure.
My regulator came preset at 55 psi, which if the park had at least that much was a good pressure, most parks we stayed at were in the 40 psi range, kind of weak, & several were over 100.

This ^^^ is what many folks don't know I believe. Those cheap little brass "regulators", generally with the orange serrated knob, don't particularly "regulate", they "restrict" - at any and all pressures. If you go to a park with low pressure, and there are lots of them, it just cuts it down further.

[theboneskes]

After several years without an RV. The wife and I got the itch again. I wanted something that would be very easy on my silverado 1500 and the Wife insisted on bunks for Grandbabies. This seems like a perfect fit. The dealer was 3 hours away. The local salesman wouldnt even counter my offer. So after he spent all morning showing us around He loses to a salesman who didnt have to do a thing but answer the phone and say yes.

The Silverado towed it with ease. 2/3 full of fresh water and full of propane the truck hitch barely went down. 30 psi in the airbags leveled it perfect and away we went. I dont see the need for a WDH as of yet.

Stayed at a local campground that night compliments of the dealer to shake it out. It even rained for us to do a leak check. All was good ( for an RV that is) We have showed this industry we will still buy them even with quality issues so I keep the bar kind of low.




Here is the point to be made... your truck cost you around 45 to 50k right? Trailer another 15 to 20... a $600 hitch wont break the bank! Just because your Chevy can, doesnt mean it should!



Guys here are trying to help you, not hinder you. Anything over 5000 pounds should have a WDH, period!


I wouldnt tow with anything but an Equalizer E4. Have had others, and nothing comes close.

[skmct]

I towed a inclosed car trailer with a 10k rating with a Chevy 1500 hd before buying my 2500 hd and fiver. When I bought the trailer it was a spur of the moment buy great sale price while on vacation. I towed it home from Tenn to conn. It seamed to tow fine no issues. When I got home a fellow racer said I should be using a wd . I said why every thing seamed fine. He said believe me once you tow with the wd you will never look back again. He had a used hitch he let me try. The biggest thing I noticed was the ride improvement . I found it much better on rough roads. With the wd it felt like the trailer and truck where one no up a down dipping. It was like the frames where one unit.
By the way he was right I bought the hitch from him and never looked back.

[ShelliB]

That’s the model we just bought for the same reason - bunks for the grandchild. UltraLite model. Our first RV, graduated from a 1995 pop-up.

We are towing with a Tacoma with Toyota 6k lb. tow package, and had no issues. Had a weight distribution hitch/sway bar installed, Blue Ox brand. And added a third leaf spring to our rear truck shocks. Camped at a local RV park to learn the ropes, and our tank gauges were dead. Took it back to the dealership for repairs, can pick up this weekend. Going to boondock next week to continue to learn how to use it before parking it for weekend use during the Fall.

[travelin texans]

That’s the model we just bought for the same reason - bunks for the grandchild. UltraLite model. Our first RV, graduated from a 1995 pop-up.

We are towing with a Tacoma with Toyota 6k lb. tow package, and had no issues. Had a weight distribution hitch/sway bar installed, Blue Ox brand. And added a third leaf spring to our rear truck shocks. Camped at a local RV park to learn the ropes, and our tank gauges were dead. Took it back to the dealership for repairs, can pick up this weekend. Going to boondock next week to continue to learn how to use it before parking it for weekend use during the Fall.

You'll need to learn your RV holding tank limits! Even if the tank sensors do light up don't expect them to be any where near accurate. The fresh water should be somewhat correct, but the waste tanks, especially the black, it'll be anybodys guess after the 1st fill or 2.

[ShelliB]

Oh wow. Thanks for that most important tidbit of information.

[jpsuttoniii]

Can’t figure how to ask this otherwise. You seem thoughtful. Do you like your 239 so far? Bunkhouse version? Murphy bed ?

[ShelliB]

Yes, so far we have enjoyed ours. We found that the dealership did not do our PDI test when water was connected, so we had leaks underneath the kitchen sink. Multiple leaks. They have been repaired. Our only other issue is that the thermostat requires upgrading. The one supplied isn’t working properly, I turn it on, wait 30 minutes for the heater to come on, then finally decide to turn it off because it won’t turn on. When I move the thermostat knob to turn it off, the heat finally comes on. Also, the thermostat read out is like trying to read a mercury thermometer, you have to hold the light at a certain angle to see it. We are going to upgrade to a digital thermostat when we have this faulty one replaced.

[flybouy]

I wasn't going to respond as some very sound advice has been given.
A few observations.
The OP apparently was seeking an attaboy vs advice from folks with "real world experience" and here's why: When given advice, he becomes defensive then attacks with "seeking facts, not opinion" and then links to a sales brochure and reverts to an ad hominem response.

So attaboy! Looks great! You got this! Enjoy!

As a footnote, this forum from my understanding, is to help Keystone RV owners via
the sharing their experiences, their solutions to problems that others may have, and yes their opinions. We all have opinions some good, some not so good and we should be able to share and challenge each other in an adult conversation.
In MY OPINION, if you are seeking scientific evidence, then contact an engineering consulting firm that specializes in vehicle safety. Should only cost you a couple of tens of thousands of dollars and handing over your truck, your trailer (loaded for camping) and take a few weeks. I'm sure you will receive all the "scientific data" and "facts" possible.
JMHO

[ShelliB]

Can’t figure how to ask this otherwise. You seem thoughtful. Do you like your 239 so far? Bunkhouse version? Murphy bed ?

Another response about the 239. We love the Murphy bed, but never raise it to use the sofa. I am so tired at the end of the day that I don’t want to lower it and rearrange pillows/bedding. If we were to have guests, I would raise the bed to use the sofa. Just my husband and I, plus the six-year old grandson, don’t need as much room, and spend most of our time outdoors.

[JRTJH]

The OP joined the forum August 20, started this thread, responded 8 times and was last seen on the forum 08-25-2019 at 07:15 PM. While it's only "my impression," he's found that he knows much more than any of us and has moved on to "more intelligent forums" where his vast understanding of RV's can be better shared.

I'd suspect he won't return... So........

[linux3]

Somewhere in here I once ported about just running my TT around the block to park in front of the house. I was lazy and didn't connect the WDH bars on my Husky Centerline TS.
Pretty much the same truck and a slightly lighter TT.
No wind to speak of and no big trucks passing.
I didn't NEED a WDH but what a difference in ride. With just the ball hitch the trailer bounced around which made the truck bounce around.
It's not just an issue of needing a WDH it also smooths the ride and I think, puts way less stress on the frame and axles of the TT.
It's WD and sway but also comfort.