1/2 ton shoot out!

[wiredgeorge]

Was waiting to get a keyless entry system installed on my clunker work truck and picked up a car mag... think it was MotorTrend. They had a 1/2 ton shoot out and the Ram and Chevy had V8 motors and the Ford had the twin turbo eco-bucks engine. Of course, the Ford won the towing contest and all the drag strip stuff but what struck me was the MSRP of the F150... >$72K. Why worry about spending $72K for towing when a one tone from any manufacturer can be had for a lot less? What will that $72K pickup be worth in 3 or 4 years? What an investment! :banghead:

[Canonman]

Don't tell the DW, but I was shopping for a Ram 3500 with the Aisin tranny and 1,000 pounds of torque. A reasonably equipped version can be had for under $60k. Not to worry since she hid all the ammo for the "Buckzooka":lol:

[Quiroule]

I paid a little over 50K for my 2018 F-150, 3.5 Ecoboost....

[mwemaxxowner]

Ford offers max tow and HDPP on xl f150s with a much, much smaller price tag than that...

Coincidentally, those will be the most capable, as they will weigh the least due to less options.

[travelin texans]

Don't tell the DW, but I was shopping for a Ram 3500 with the Aisin tranny and 1,000 pounds of torque. A reasonably equipped version can be had for under $60k. Not to worry since she hid all the ammo for the "Buckzooka":lol:
And it can actually be called a "TOW VEHICLE"!
Didn't see or read the article, but suspect they were towing a utility trailer with blocks, which is a total different tow experience than a RV of the same weight.

[KimNTerry]

I paid a little over 50K for my 2018 F-150, 3.5 Ecoboost....

Same here.

P.S. I really don't care if none you like my choice of Tow Vehicle.

[mwemaxxowner]

I knew this would be good. Lol

[Badbart56]

My friends at Ford tell me the EcoBoost is a very capable half ton. They also advise me to not keep one past the warranty expiration. Take that as you will.

[sourdough]

My friends at Ford tell me the EcoBoost is a very capable half ton. They also advise me to not keep one past the warranty expiration. Take that as you will.

Same here. Had a friend that owned several dealerships and his advice was the same as yours; after the warranty if it quits....you can't afford it.

[Gegrad]

Same here. Had a friend that owned several dealerships and his advice was the same as yours; after the warranty if it quits....you can't afford it.

Every one I have talked to said 5 mpg is about the best you are gonna do while towing, since it is literally ALWAYS in the boost when towing. Have not heard much negative about breakdowns though. Of course the vast majority of us on here aren't camping because we can't afford a little extra fuel...

[JRTJH]

Eco-Boost has a twin spool turbine, some say it's not reliable

Diesel engines from all manufacturers have had twin spool turbines for 20+ years (some now have variable vane turbines but they also use "oil cooled bearings) and some people say nothing is more reliable than a diesel.

Hmmmmm

BTW, try replacing a turbine on a diesel. $10K to get a rebuilt one installed, $15K for a new OEM turbine.

Yes, if either an EcoBoost or a diesel turbine "goes for lunch" it's going to be expensive.

[mwemaxxowner]

Every one I have talked to said 5 mpg is about the best you are gonna do while towing, since it is literally ALWAYS in the boost when towing. Have not heard much negative about breakdowns though. Of course the vast majority of us on here aren't camping because we can't afford a little extra fuel...Lol. I've literally never seen one do that poorly while towing. 8-10 seems par for the course. About the same as any other gasser half ton, and many gasser trucks towing period.

We have plenty of Ecoboost trucks on the forums and in various groups starting to get some age and racking up the miles.

I am a fan of trucks in general. I love all trucks. I'm happy for folks who have any vehicle that they personally like, and I can usually appreciate them also. The hatred for Ford trucks around here is weird.

[Badbart56]

Lol. I've literally never seen one do that poorly while towing. 8-10 seems par for the course. About the same as any other gasser half ton, and many gasser trucks towing period.

We have plenty of Ecoboost trucks on the forums and in various groups starting to get some age and racking up the miles.

I am a fan of trucks in general. I love all trucks. I'm happy for folks who have any vehicle that they personally like, and I can usually appreciate them also. The hatred for Ford trucks around here is weird.

Pretty much everyone who owns a truck has their favorite so it's a given that they feel like theirs is better than the other brands, so hate might be a strong word here. Spirited rivalry might be a better description.

[mwemaxxowner]

I have my favorite for sure. But I also admire other brands and certainly am not against them because they aren't my flavor. Nor do I put them down out of spite to those who are proud of them.

I wouldn't even claim mine or any certain brand is better. Mine is simply the best for me (the one who's making the payment).

[Free88]

Lol. I've literally never seen one do that poorly while towing. 8-10 seems par for the course. About the same as any other gasser half ton, and many gasser trucks towing period.
.

I get about 9MPG towing my 7k TT with my Silverado 6.0L gas 2500 at 65MPH highway. My neighbor gets 11MPG (*) with his F350 diesel towing 10.5k 5th at 65MPH on those same highways. I would say neither one of us is especially light-footed.

(*) not including regen cycle, which happens about every 250 miles for about 50 miles, and during that period his MPG's are more like 8MPG.

Someone else I know has one of the more top-end F150's with the 3.5L Eco Boost. Tows an Airstream 6.5k lbs TT. 6MPG is a typical towing average for him. Phenomenal MPG's when not towing, but while towing it's not very good. No lift kit or anything like that, and he is an older gentlemen that is very light-footed. I have known others to report 8-9MPG on that truck while towing super light box trailers and open trailers. Im talking 1500-2000lbs total load. Once you put a load on it, any load, the MPG's take a huge dump.

[mwemaxxowner]

I get 9-10...

Most others I know on f150ecoboost.net and the various groups/forums I participate in report the same approximate average while towing. 5-6 is hogwash and propaganda.

"Top end f150" doesn't mean a whole lot. They can come rated for anywhere from 5000 to 13,200 lbs towing, and 1000 to 3000 lbs of payload.

There are a myriad of options available with different towing packages, payload packages, and gear ratios. Rear ends obviously being the biggest factor, and the new 10 speed tranny is leaps and bounds above the 6. Much shorter first gear and taller overdrive gears, regardless of rear end ratio.

Your description of the truck leads me to believe that a) you don't know much about what gear ratio it has, what sort of towing or other packages you have. We very well could be talking about a truck that's I'll equipped for the load.

B) top end also leads me to believe it's a Platinum, King Ranch, etc. The higher you go up the options totem pole, the more expensive truck you have, and the less capable. Every option detracts from the payload and towing abilities, and also detracts from fuel mileage.

Ford offers the most capable engines with hdpp and/or max tow in the most bare bones of trucks in the XL package, and then on up the pole to the heavier more well optioned trucks.

I say all that to say that, without knowing the specs on said truck, can't make much of a well informed opinion about its performance. Could be talking about an apple and an orange, and a King Ranch non tow package truck with a 3.15 rear end trying to do what it wasn't designed to do.

Even towing at max gcvr through the Smokey Mountains I wasn't much worse than 10 mpg.

I'm not trying to enter a pissing contest here, I have nothing against any of your trucks, but there is a lot of hearsay and misinformation being fed as truth.

[foldbak]

I'm getting ready to upgrade my TV. I've been an Expedition XL fan for a long time. On my second. I've pulled 4 different TT with it. It has a tow package, air bags and an Anderson WDH. Does a great job but under powered up hills. It gets about 12 mpg on flat highway. It's great for my 100 lab. He gets the whole rear. But I want more power so I'm looking at 2500 options. Definitely not going with a 6 cylinder gas. Thinking about Ram Hemi or diesel. Suggestions? Whats going to get the better MPG? Oh ya and remove the rear seats for the dog :)

[mwemaxxowner]

[emoji2361]

[Free88]

I get 9-10...

Most others I know on f150ecoboost.net and the various groups/forums I participate in report the same approximate average while towing. 5-6 is hogwash and propaganda.

"Top end f150" doesn't mean a whole lot. They can come rated for anywhere from 5000 to 13,200 lbs towing, and 1000 to 3000 lbs of payload.

There are a myriad of options available with different towing packages, payload packages, and gear ratios. Rear ends obviously being the biggest factor, and the new 10 speed tranny is leaps and bounds above the 6. Much shorter first gear and taller overdrive gears, regardless of rear end ratio.

Your description of the truck leads me to believe that a) you don't know much about what gear ratio it has, what sort of towing or other packages you have. We very well could be talking about a truck that's I'll equipped for the load.

B) top end also leads me to believe it's a Platinum, King Ranch, etc. The higher you go up the options totem pole, the more expensive truck you have, and the less capable. Every option detracts from the payload and towing abilities, and also detracts from fuel mileage.

Ford offers the most capable engines with hdpp and/or max tow in the most bare bones of trucks in the XL package, and then on up the pole to the heavier more well optioned trucks.

I say all that to say that, without knowing the specs on said truck, can't make much of a well informed opinion about its performance. Could be talking about an apple and an orange, and a King Ranch non tow package truck with a 3.15 rear end trying to do what it wasn't designed to do.

Even towing at max gcvr through the Smokey Mountains I wasn't much worse than 10 mpg.

I'm not trying to enter a pissing contest here, I have nothing against any of your trucks, but there is a lot of hearsay and misinformation being fed as truth.

It is a Platinum edition and has the tow package and pretty much every option. Its just about as maxed out an F150 as you can get. He bought it after getting the Airstream, specifically for towing. Last I talked to him he was thinking of trading it in for either an F250 or F350 gasser. He figures, and I agree, if you are going to get crap MPG's, then you mind as well be into the HD's. The overall towing experience is just head and shoulders better. I nearly bought an F250 gasser last year, a 2018 leftover. If my local Ford dealer wasnt so greedy, I would have bought it. I think they are awesome trucks. I was able to get a comparably equipped 2018 Silverado 2500 gasser for $3k less, so I went Chevy this time.

I agree, there is no need for a pissing match. I have no dog in this race. I could care less what MPG's half-ton owners get. I am sure his 6.5k Airstream is well within the brochure tow rating for the particular truck that he has. Its a nice truck, and I really like it. If I didnt tow, I would consider getting one. Been there, done that on the half-tons, though, so I wont tow with them anymore.

BTW, you dont actually know people that you interact with on an internet forum. Those people can type whatever they way and not have to prove a darn thing. My general rule of thumb on this subject is that people overestimate by at least 2MPG on the internet when talking about truck MPG's. Ive been owning and driving trucks 30 years now. Many hundreds of thousands of miles. Everything from a Volkswagen Rabbit Diesel to the biggest baddest modern 1-ton diesels, and all the gassers in between. You aint tellin me no stories on truck MPG's.

[Free88]

I'm getting ready to upgrade my TV. I've been an Expedition XL fan for a long time. On my second. I've pulled 4 different TT with it. It has a tow package, air bags and an Anderson WDH. Does a great job but under powered up hills. It gets about 12 mpg on flat highway. It's great for my 100 lab. He gets the whole rear. But I want more power so I'm looking at 2500 options. Definitely not going with a 6 cylinder gas. Thinking about Ram Hemi or diesel. Suggestions? Whats going to get the better MPG? Oh ya and remove the rear seats for the dog :)

I would not recommend the (big) diesels unless you will be towing 10k plus on a regular basis and/or you simply need more towing capacity than is available with the gassers.

The real question is which has the least cost per mile during a period of ownership. The (big) diesels are far more expensive on a cost per mile basis no matter how you calculate it. They do get slightly more MPG's, but diesel fuel also costs more and you additionally have to buy DEF. Also, the regular scheduled maintenance is far more expensive for the diesel. You will never overcome this over the life of the truck. The diesel option is usually a good $8k-$9k more (when you factor in the percent reduction in negotiation) when you buy. It will depreciate the same percentage just like the gas version. You will not be getting that $8k-$9k back on the back end. There is a myth that says you will, but its nonsense. Overall, its a lot more expensive to go with the diesel.

None of this is the say the (big) diesels suck. They are wicked powerful and can rip a CBS house off its foundation. But on CPM, forget it. The gassers are way cheaper to own and operate. If you need the diesel, then get it. Otherwise, you are better off spending the extra coin on other options.

[JRTJH]

I would not recommend the (big) diesels unless you will be towing 10k plus on a regular basis and/or you simply need more towing capacity than is available with the gassers.

The real question is which has the least cost per mile during a period of ownership. The (big) diesels are far more expensive on a cost per mile basis no matter how you calculate it. They do get slightly more MPG's, but diesel fuel also costs more and you additionally have to buy DEF. Also, the regular scheduled maintenance is far more expensive for the diesel. You will never overcome this over the life of the truck. The diesel option is usually a good $8k-$9k more (when you factor in the percent reduction in negotiation) when you buy. It will depreciate the same percentage just like the gas version. You will not be getting that $8k-$9k back on the back end. There is a myth that says you will, but its nonsense. Overall, its a lot more expensive to go with the diesel.

None of this is the say the (big) diesels suck. They are wicked powerful and can rip a CBS house off its foundation. But on CPM, forget it. The gassers are way cheaper to own and operate. If you need the diesel, then get it. Otherwise, you are better off spending the extra coin on other options.

Unless someone simply WANTS a diesel and doesn't really give a damn how much it costs or what it'll be worth at trade in time and couldn't care less how much an oil change costs, and simply WANT to drive a diesel. Then your theories go out the window. For me, it's more expensive to drive a diesel, I don't really "need" one, but guess what's in my garage??? Yup, my choice of trucks, just happens to be a diesel.... I might add that my DW was really disappointed that the new Ford 6.7L diesel is so quiet. She enjoyed our older trucks and revving the engine at a stop light, spewing black sooty smoke all over those little "Prius things".... I try to keep her from doing it, but sometimes a gal's gotta do what a gal needs to do...... :popcorn:

[chuckster57]

If I could have a Ford body, Cummins engine and an Allison transmission all in the same truck I would be a happy camper.

Until then I’ll be content with my PAID FOR 230HP 325lb ft of torque.

[Badbart56]

I would not recommend the (big) diesels unless you will be towing 10k plus on a regular basis and/or you simply need more towing capacity than is available with the gassers.

The real question is which has the least cost per mile during a period of ownership. The (big) diesels are far more expensive on a cost per mile basis no matter how you calculate it. They do get slightly more MPG's, but diesel fuel also costs more and you additionally have to buy DEF. Also, the regular scheduled maintenance is far more expensive for the diesel. You will never overcome this over the life of the truck. The diesel option is usually a good $8k-$9k more (when you factor in the percent reduction in negotiation) when you buy. It will depreciate the same percentage just like the gas version. You will not be getting that $8k-$9k back on the back end. There is a myth that says you will, but its nonsense. Overall, its a lot more expensive to go with the diesel.

None of this is the say the (big) diesels suck. They are wicked powerful and can rip a CBS house off its foundation. But on CPM, forget it. The gassers are way cheaper to own and operate. If you need the diesel, then get it. Otherwise, you are better off spending the extra coin on other options.

It's only money dude. Drive what you want to drive if you can afford it, diesels are a blast!

[travelin texans]

I would not recommend the (big) diesels unless you will be towing 10k plus on a regular basis and/or you simply need more towing capacity than is available with the gassers.

The real question is which has the least cost per mile during a period of ownership. The (big) diesels are far more expensive on a cost per mile basis no matter how you calculate it. They do get slightly more MPG's, but diesel fuel also costs more and you additionally have to buy DEF. Also, the regular scheduled maintenance is far more expensive for the diesel. You will never overcome this over the life of the truck. The diesel option is usually a good $8k-$9k more (when you factor in the percent reduction in negotiation) when you buy. It will depreciate the same percentage just like the gas version. You will not be getting that $8k-$9k back on the back end. There is a myth that says you will, but its nonsense. Overall, its a lot more expensive to go with the diesel.

None of this is the say the (big) diesels suck. They are wicked powerful and can rip a CBS house off its foundation. But on CPM, forget it. The gassers are way cheaper to own and operate. If you need the diesel, then get it. Otherwise, you are better off spending the extra coin on other options.

My last 2 tow vehicles have been diesel duallies & quite honestly couldn't tell much difference in cost of routine maintenance between the previous gassers. Oil changes were 2-3 on the gassers to 1 on the diesel (dealership had it on sale frequently for $59), used the same air filter, fuel filter if done by me was a minimal expense & the one everyone that doesn't own a diesel keeps bringing up is the DEF, which on my 2nd tv was about $10-12 every 3500 miles (less than .03 cents a mile), if bought at the pump it was half that price.
Yes if you had major problems it was costly, but on today's computer managed vehicles any/all repairs could/can be major regardless if gas or diesel. Replaced a headlight bulb, same on gas or diesel 1/2 to 1 tons, which cost $28 & took about an hour to replace, so had the dealer done the work probably $150-200.
My 1st one the torque converter went out, which according to the dealership that did the warranty & a factory rep, that was a 1 in a million on an Allison tranny, so odd it took a week to locate one. The newer truck the turbo bit the dust, under warranty, they replaced it. With 330k on 2 trucks, half of which was towing heavy 5ers, those were the only issues. Both got between 8.5 to 12.5 mpg, that's not the internet 2+ mileage either, depending on terrain & my right foot.
In my opinion if towing 5k or less get a half ton brand of your choice, 5-10k a 3/4 or 1 ton gasser can probably git'er done (mileage will suck), anything bigger get a 1 ton diesel dually.
As to depreciation, most any diesel truck, even with high mileage, will be worth more at trade or sold out right than a gasser with fewer miles, if in doubt look up on any used truck websites & start comparing.
If you don't want a diesel, by all means don't buy one, but if towing a medium to heavy RV regularly it's absolutely the best option.

[mwemaxxowner]

Being a Platinum drastically reduces the truckability of the truck. Also, it could have the 3.15 or 3.31 gearing. We don't know. So, if it does, being a Platinum, it's nearly maxed out on every front. With a limited gvwr I don't want to spend it all on creature comforts. I have an XLT, seems very nice to me. Many more options than anything else I've ever driven.

I've been on both sides of this. I drove an old 250 460 (3/4 gasser), then a SD 250 7.3 6 speed manual for 10 years, now a half ton gasser. There are pros and cons to both sides. Our current truck fits our needs the best of anything we could have chosen, and my 9-10 mpg towing seems just fine to us. The other 20,000 miles a year it spends commuting. As a weekend warrior at best I have no need for my old SD, though that truck will always be one of the best I owned.

Nobody is getting "5-6 mpg" towing with these trucks unless something is wrong.

And back to the point being made in the OP, @72k, then it's a truck that was fitted with every single option and intentionally made to cost that much. They are available squarely in the 30s, and even the upper 20s for xl rc 2wd trucks.

That's the point here. The crazy, inaccurate figures being thrown around Willy nilly. For what reason?

[Free88]

My last 2 tow vehicles have been diesel duallies & quite honestly couldn't tell much difference in cost of routine maintenance between the previous gassers. Oil changes were 2-3 on the gassers to 1 on the diesel (dealership had it on sale frequently for $59), used the same air filter, fuel filter if done by me was a minimal expense & the one everyone that doesn't own a diesel keeps bringing up is the DEF, which on my 2nd tv was about $10-12 every 3500 miles (less than .03 cents a mile), if bought at the pump it was half that price.
Yes if you had major problems it was costly, but on today's computer managed vehicles any/all repairs could/can be major regardless if gas or diesel. Replaced a headlight bulb, same on gas or diesel 1/2 to 1 tons, which cost $28 & took about an hour to replace, so had the dealer done the work probably $150-200.
My 1st one the torque converter went out, which according to the dealership that did the warranty & a factory rep, that was a 1 in a million on an Allison tranny, so odd it took a week to locate one. The newer truck the turbo bit the dust, under warranty, they replaced it. With 330k on 2 trucks, half of which was towing heavy 5ers, those were the only issues. Both got between 8.5 to 12.5 mpg, that's not the internet 2+ mileage either, depending on terrain & my right foot.
In my opinion if towing 5k or less get a half ton brand of your choice, 5-10k a 3/4 or 1 ton gasser can probably git'er done (mileage will suck), anything bigger get a 1 ton diesel dually.
As to depreciation, most any diesel truck, even with high mileage, will be worth more at trade or sold out right than a gasser with fewer miles, if in doubt look up on any used truck websites & start comparing.
If you don't want a diesel, by all means don't buy one, but if towing a medium to heavy RV regularly it's absolutely the best option.

Its roughly three times more expensive to do the regular scheduled maintenance on the diesel vs gas in the 3/4- and 1-ton trucks. You may choose to the maintenance as recommended by the OEM or not. Thats an individual choice. But if you follow the schedule, its about three times more expensive to maintain the diesel version of the truck.

I agree with your towed weights assesement. Under 5k you will be fine with a half-ton. 5k-10k get a 3/4- or 1-ton gasser. Above 10k on a regular basis and/or above the gassers tow rating, get the diesel. This is not to say you cant occasionaly exceed 5k on a half-ton or 10k on an HD gasser. But I would not do it on a regular basis.

I did not say the the HD diesel would not be worth more than the HD gasser at the end of your ownership period. The percent depreciation is roughly the same, however. You dont get your whole $8k-$9k returned to you on the back end of ownership, which is what some people think. That money gets depreciated on the same schedule as the rest of the truck. Diesel trucks do not depreciate less than their gas equivalent trucks.

Some people "need" the diesel, but not because they actually need the diesel. And thats fine. If you have the money to burn, have at it. Like I said, I think they are crazy powerful. They are a blast to drive. The largest load I tow has a max weight of 8800lb and that resolves to a total weight of about 17300lbs with payload, passengers, etc. Normally, its more like 15500lbs. Either way, this is well within my trucks rating of 21100lbs, and the 6.0L has enough capability for this weight. Our next trailer years from now will likely be a 10k or so 5th wheel. I will want to get the diesel, but probably not a dually. Whoever can give me the best deal on what I want at the time is what I will get. I own no stock in Ford, Chevy, etc. I really dont care who "wins." All of them can serve this role and do it well. One huge plus for me on the 2018 Silverado 2500 this time - aside from just being cheaper- was that a WD hitch is not required for a TT up to its maximum tow rating. None of the others can claim that, and it is a nice convenience. This wont be an issue on a 5th wheel.

[CaptnJohn]

[emoji1] 3 times the cost of maintenance [emoji23] . We have a 2017 F150 grocery getter and on our 4th F350 after a F250.

[CaptnJohn]

[emoji1] 3 times the cost of maintenance [emoji23] . We have a 2017 F150 grocery getter and on our 4th F350 after a F250.



I have pulled a 7k TT with the 150 and get a little better than 7 mpg. I pull 17k with the 350 and get 10.8 average. The 2019 diesel gets 21 highway and 17.5 town with only 550# in the bed.

Just wanted a new truck and traded the 2016 with near 100k miles. New truck was X plan and know what I paid. Trade was $12.7k less than paid for. Dealers like used 250 diesel better. None get excited about a add or Hd gasser.

[JRTJH]

[emoji1] 3 times the cost of maintenance [emoji23] . We have a 2017 F150 grocery getter and on our 4th F350 after a F250.

That's my experience as well. Having owned diesel trucks since 1993 and having "interspersed gas trucks in that mix" I can say that I see no significant difference in maintenance costs for diesel power over gas power. Assuming that both types do not have a mechanical breakdown, routine maintenance is essentially the same for either vehicle. As for fuel pricing, currently in this area, diesel averages $2.60 and gas (87 octane) averages $2.68. With diesel trucks averaging 18MPG solo and 11MPG towing and gas trucks averaging 15MPG solo and 9MPG towing, it's clear, at least in this area, that diesel power is cheaper to "fuel" than gas power (at least in the heavy duty truck class).

In my experience with my vehicles, any 6.0-6.2 gas engine is going to use more fuel per mile than a comparable diesel. If gas costs more than diesel (which for me it currently does) then that even further compounds the cost of GAS ownership.

Then, as for trade in value, every diesel truck I see on any sales lot around here is 5K-8K more than a comparable year/equipped gas truck. The "low end" (5K) typically is for older (2005-2012) and the "high end" (8K) for newer (2015-2018) trucks. So, the $9K cost for a diesel is, for the most part, recovered in trade, at least when it comes to used truck pricing in the retail market. Who really knows (except the owner and the dealer) what anyone really gets for their truck at trade in time?

[CaptnJohn]

Who knows? When both are purchased on the A or X plan you know exactly what each costs. Subtract trade allowance from purchase and it is easy. Agree the average buyer would have a hard time.

Ford and DAV have a partnership. You know the cost as it is printed on the invoice the dealer is required to provide. The normal document fee of $400-$600 in my case has been $100. You also receive all current rebates.

[Free88]

That's my experience as well. Having owned diesel trucks since 1993 and having "interspersed gas trucks in that mix" I can say that I see no significant difference in maintenance costs for diesel power over gas power. Assuming that both types do not have a mechanical breakdown, routine maintenance is essentially the same for either vehicle. As for fuel pricing, currently in this area, diesel averages $2.60 and gas (87 octane) averages $2.68. With diesel trucks averaging 18MPG solo and 11MPG towing and gas trucks averaging 15MPG solo and 9MPG towing, it's clear, at least in this area, that diesel power is cheaper to "fuel" than gas power (at least in the heavy duty truck class).

In my experience with my vehicles, any 6.0-6.2 gas engine is going to use more fuel per mile than a comparable diesel. If gas costs more than diesel (which for me it currently does) then that even further compounds the cost of GAS ownership.

Then, as for trade in value, every diesel truck I see on any sales lot around here is 5K-8K more than a comparable year/equipped gas truck. The "low end" (5K) typically is for older (2005-2012) and the "high end" (8K) for newer (2015-2018) trucks. So, the $9K cost for a diesel is, for the most part, recovered in trade, at least when it comes to used truck pricing in the retail market. Who really knows (except the owner and the dealer) what anyone really gets for their truck at trade in time?

Today, 87 ethanol is 2.28/gal and diesel is 2.99/gal in my neck of the woods. And thats a pretty typical spread for most of the year. Yes, the diesel will get slightly better MPG's, but you wont make up that difference in the cost of the fuel. At best, its even. Its not, though, when you factor in the loss of MPG during regens. Also, you can use 89 or 90 rec fuel in the gasser and that MPG advantage mostly goes away. Sometimes it actually makes sense to use rec fuel, sometimes not. The price around here is usually about 10 cents more for 89 or 90 rec vs diesel. Thats not the case everywhere. And, we are ignoring DEF costs.

It is a myth that diesel 3/4-tons and 1-tons retain a higher percentage depreciation vs their gas counterparts. The depreciation percentage is nearly identical. You will get some of your diesel adder costs when you trade it in or sell it privately, just like you will for most of the other options you paid for. It will not be the full value. Dollar for dollar, you lose more the more expensive the truck was to begin with for at least three main reasons. Finance cost being one of them. Larger loans and for longer finance periods costs you more interest. More expensive truck, more expensive insurance. If you bought a $100k and a $50k truck and 5 years down the line you will get 50% of what you paid, well, for truck one you lost $50k and truck two you lost $25k. Its simple math, and its pretty hard to argue against. But, hey, whatever.

Again, I have nothing against (big) diesels. Stump pulling marvels of modern technology, I says. But to argue that diesel's are cheaper than gas in 3/4-tons and 1-tons is absurd. That math will never agree with you, simple as that. The small diesels, such as we are starting to see in half-tons and mid-size, is a whole other ball game. Those can actually be cheaper to own than their gas counterparts.

'Round here, the gas 3/4-tons and 1-tons are what flies off the lots. It is very difficult to find one with that just-right equipment level, and you usually have to either drive hundreds of miles to get it or you beg the dealer to do an inventory swap for you. As soon as they come in they are sold within days. Similar trucks but with the diesel? "We have every color, trim level, 4WD, 2WD, basically every major configuration you want if you went diesel." And so does the other dealer 10 miles away, and the one 20 miles away, and so on. You want gas, well, there is this one dealer 250 miles away that can actually keep in stock gassers that are not work trucks for longer than a week...

[Badbart56]

Today, 87 ethanol is 2.28/gal and diesel is 2.99/gal in my neck of the woods.

Looking at GasBuddy, diesel in Ft. Myers is only $2.62 a gallon today.


Also,you can use 89 or 90 rec fuel in the gasser and that MPG advantage mostly goes away. Sometimes it actually makes sense to use rec fuel, sometimes not. The price around here is usually about 10 cents more for 89 or 90 rec vs diesel.

What? You think using higher octane in a vehicle made for lower octane improves mileage? If that's the case why isn't everyone doing it?

rec fuel? Midgrade gas is $2.54 in Ft. Myers today.


And, we are ignoring DEF costs.

2 1/2 gallon jugs of DEF at Walmart are 7 bucks. I use one probably every 10 fill ups.




'Round here, the gas 3/4-tons and 1-tons are what flies off the lots.

"Round here you can't get rid of them. They're gas hogs, plain and simple. The people I know that have had them got 12 mpg or less, not towing anything. Some of these guys went down to a 1/2 ton again because it was so bad. Some went to a diesel.

The fleet of 2015 Chevy 2500's that my previous employer had averaged 11 mpg and the power was not impressive. I'm not denying that diesels cost more, but it's not the picture you're painting. No, they're not for everyone and sometimes you need more than what a half ton will do, even though they're more capable than ever. Power comes at a cost, that's just the way it is. And I like power! That's why one of my other cars is a Cadillac CTS V!

[CaptnJohn]

Around here you cannot give a 3/4 or 1 ton gasser away. Dealers don’t even want them on trade unless they are a beat up contractors truck they give next to nothing for. Demographics and locations.

[tech740]

If I could have a Ford body, Cummins engine and an Allison transmission all in the same truck I would be a happy camper.

Until then I’ll be content with my PAID FOR 230HP 325lb ft of torque.

I have said that combo was the best for a while now. Interesting to find someone who thinks the same.

Just went with a 2019 Ram 3500 cummins with the Aisin though. I am hoping it rivals the Allison.

[travelin texans]

Today, 87 ethanol is 2.28/gal and diesel is 2.99/gal in my neck of the woods. And thats a pretty typical spread for most of the year. Yes, the diesel will get slightly better MPG's, but you wont make up that difference in the cost of the fuel. At best, its even. Its not, though, when you factor in the loss of MPG during regens. Also, you can use 89 or 90 rec fuel in the gasser and that MPG advantage mostly goes away. Sometimes it actually makes sense to use rec fuel, sometimes not. The price around here is usually about 10 cents more for 89 or 90 rec vs diesel. Thats not the case everywhere. And, we are ignoring DEF costs.

It is a myth that diesel 3/4-tons and 1-tons retain a higher percentage depreciation vs their gas counterparts. The depreciation percentage is nearly identical. You will get some of your diesel adder costs when you trade it in or sell it privately, just like you will for most of the other options you paid for. It will not be the full value. Dollar for dollar, you lose more the more expensive the truck was to begin with for at least three main reasons. Finance cost being one of them. Larger loans and for longer finance periods costs you more interest. More expensive truck, more expensive insurance. If you bought a $100k and a $50k truck and 5 years down the line you will get 50% of what you paid, well, for truck one you lost $50k and truck two you lost $25k. Its simple math, and its pretty hard to argue against. But, hey, whatever.

Again, I have nothing against (big) diesels. Stump pulling marvels of modern technology, I says. But to argue that diesel's are cheaper than gas in 3/4-tons and 1-tons is absurd. That math will never agree with you, simple as that. The small diesels, such as we are starting to see in half-tons and mid-size, is a whole other ball game. Those can actually be cheaper to own than their gas counterparts.

'Round here, the gas 3/4-tons and 1-tons are what flies off the lots. It is very difficult to find one with that just-right equipment level, and you usually have to either drive hundreds of miles to get it or you beg the dealer to do an inventory swap for you. As soon as they come in they are sold within days. Similar trucks but with the diesel? "We have every color, trim level, 4WD, 2WD, basically every major configuration you want if you went diesel." And so does the other dealer 10 miles away, and the one 20 miles away, and so on. You want gas, well, there is this one dealer 250 miles away that can actually keep in stock gassers that are not work trucks for longer than a week...

Curious, how many of the newer diesels have you owned recently?
If at least 1 your opinions could be fact!
If none then we know where the "myths" start!
I will tell my son's factual story on an '05 3500 Ram Mega cab 4x4 with 180k on the odometer. He paid $24k which was about $5k under book at the time, drove it for another 40-50k, had the engine rebuilt for $9k then some knucklehead ran him off the road, insurance totalled the truck & paid him almost $39k, so much for that huge depreciation on a used diesel.

[Mad Cow]

Yeah, MPG alone is myopic way to view things. The actual fuel cost per mile really tells the story. My Chevy 2500 6.0 gasser is flex fuel. I get E85 for $1.89 a gallon lately. It averages for all miles about 11-12 mpg. Diesel is going for $3.01 as of yesterday. For a diesel version of the same 2500 pickup, just to break even on fuel cost per mile it would have to average a hair over 18 mpg. Possible in the right hands, but still only break even.

As for the 1/2 ton "shootout", there is no 1/2 ton that has anywhere near the capability of the average 3/4 ton in both payload and towing. And I have seen brand new 2020 Chevy 2500's with the new 6.6L gasser (401HP / 464LB) going for $40K out the door. Even NADA shows the average selling price in the $40K range with average MSRP at $48K.

Hence, I never even consider 1/2 tons. Over inflated prices and not worth what they sell for.

[wobly]

... Oh ya and remove the rear seats for the dog :)

Most of the upper RAM trim levels have a feature where you can fold up the back seat and fold out a flat floor. Great for the dogs!

[blubuckaroo]

My son has an F150, and pulls a trailer very close to the size and weight of ours. About 24'. He gets around 9 MPG when towing.
Our Chevy Silverado with the 5.3 gets around 13.

The thing most truck buyers fail to do though, is to compare tow packages. You can't just compare a Ford F150 to a Chevy. Each of the manufacturers offer a variety of tow ratings. The rear end ratio is the biggest part of this.

The other thing is, whenever I think of turbo, I think $$$.
Maybe they have all the bugs out, but a pickup isn't a short term investment for me.

[wiredgeorge]

And it can actually be called a "TOW VEHICLE"!
Didn't see or read the article, but suspect they were towing a utility trailer with blocks, which is a total different tow experience than a RV of the same weight.

They were towing car trailers with modern muscle cars and weights to make each trailer same weight.

[wiredgeorge]

I get 9-10...

Most others I know on f150ecoboost.net and the various groups/forums I participate in report the same approximate average while towing. 5-6 is hogwash and propaganda.

"Top end f150" doesn't mean a whole lot. They can come rated for anywhere from 5000 to 13,200 lbs towing, and 1000 to 3000 lbs of payload.

There are a myriad of options available with different towing packages, payload packages, and gear ratios. Rear ends obviously being the biggest factor, and the new 10 speed tranny is leaps and bounds above the 6. Much shorter first gear and taller overdrive gears, regardless of rear end ratio.

Your description of the truck leads me to believe that a) you don't know much about what gear ratio it has, what sort of towing or other packages you have. We very well could be talking about a truck that's I'll equipped for the load.

B) top end also leads me to believe it's a Platinum, King Ranch, etc. The higher you go up the options totem pole, the more expensive truck you have, and the less capable. Every option detracts from the payload and towing abilities, and also detracts from fuel mileage.

Ford offers the most capable engines with hdpp and/or max tow in the most bare bones of trucks in the XL package, and then on up the pole to the heavier more well optioned trucks.

I say all that to say that, without knowing the specs on said truck, can't make much of a well informed opinion about its performance. Could be talking about an apple and an orange, and a King Ranch non tow package truck with a 3.15 rear end trying to do what it wasn't designed to do.

Even towing at max gcvr through the Smokey Mountains I wasn't much worse than 10 mpg.

I'm not trying to enter a pissing contest here, I have nothing against any of your trucks, but there is a lot of hearsay and misinformation being fed as truth.

Guess I am a truck idiot; wish I were clever enough to have paid attention to all options on the Ford F150 but I can't recall most except MSRP. My point was, I was stunned by the $72K MSRP. I bought a new 2013 F150 with base V6 and spent under $18K. It got good gas mileage but couldn't tow much. I had a truck camper on it and it wasn't happy. My wife wasn't happy with the sit on the toilet to take a shower bathroom. Truck and camper went. Sounds like you are a tad sensitive to anyone blowing smoke at your Ecobooster. Sorry, not the intention of my original post. And I get over 10 mpg dragging my Cougar 5ver with my F350 6.0L diesel pig.

[wiredgeorge]

Curious, how many of the newer diesels have you owned recently?
If at least 1 your opinions could be fact!
If none then we know where the "myths" start!
I will tell my son's factual story on an '05 3500 Ram Mega cab 4x4 with 180k on the odometer. He paid $24k which was about $5k under book at the time, drove it for another 40-50k, had the engine rebuilt for $9k then some knucklehead ran him off the road, insurance totalled the truck & paid him almost $39k, so much for that huge depreciation on a used diesel.

I own a 2006 F350 6.0L work truck. It was cheap. I looked forever for a V10 in my somewhat cheapo price range and there just are not many out there. I had a line on a 2012 6.2 gasser and it was sold before I could move on it. Here in Texas, there are few gas Super Duty trucks and diesels seem to make up about 95 percent of the available market. If you are talking Fords, the type of diesel makes a HUGE price difference. The 7.3 is still king and you can see those in decent shape going $15-20K all over with reasonable mileage (<200K). The 6.0L has a somewhat less stellar rep and the 2006-7 models bring the higher prices. The 6.4L is generally shunned. The 6.7L is fairly well thought of and it is difficult to find one cheap. I paid a shade over $7K for mine as it is a work truck and had 135K miles and rubber floors and bench seats and no power windows or door locks. Suited me fine and after a little injection of money for fixes, I can probably sell it for a bit more than I paid. I see similar going $10-12K. The higher end models like the Lariat don't seem to bring a whole bunch more than the strippo XL. Duallies bring a bit more in Texas because every redneck like me wants to own one because they look cool. Trucks seldom turn into wise financial investments be they gas or diesel.

[Ibdagriz]

I have said that combo was the best for a while now. Interesting to find someone who thinks the same.

Just went with a 2019 Ram 3500 cummins with the Aisin though. I am hoping it rivals the Allison.

I'm always interested in different setups and found a guy on YouTube named Westin who bought a 2010 Lariat 1 ton SRW and swapped out the dead diesel engine for a Cummins 5.9. Added in a kit to bump up the ponies a bit and was all in for about $12k. Auction truck but it looked really nice.

We have a 2013 V-8 5.0 L Ford F-150 CCSB Lariat the wife drives as her vehicle of choice and an 2011 V-8 6.2L gas F-250 Lariat CCLB FX4 for towing our 9k TT. The 250 gets about 8 mpg towing at 65 and 14-15 empty at the same speed.

Bought the gasser as I work on my vehicles and don't know anything about diesel setups and at 61, wasn't really looking to the learning curve. LoL. Bought the V-8 F-150 as I prefer them to learning about turbos and all that brings with it.

Just my preference.

Griz

[mwemaxxowner]

Guess I am a truck idiot; wish I were clever enough to have paid attention to all options on the Ford F150 but I can't recall most except MSRP. My point was, I was stunned by the $72K MSRP. I bought a new 2013 F150 with base V6 and spent under $18K. It got good gas mileage but couldn't tow much. I had a truck camper on it and it wasn't happy. My wife wasn't happy with the sit on the toilet to take a shower bathroom. Truck and camper went. Sounds like you are a tad sensitive to anyone blowing smoke at your Ecobooster. Sorry, not the intention of my original post. And I get over 10 mpg dragging my Cougar 5ver with my F350 6.0L diesel pig.No, I'm sensitive to misinformation being spread, and remarking like $72,000 is the going rate, as well as 5-6 mpg.

Other than that, I'm a fan of all trucks.

[BulletOwner1]

Just for more useless data: I've got a 2012 F150 Lariat 3.5 Ecoboost. 89000 miles. Love it. Towed a number of different trailers. Currently a 24' Cougar, 6600 unloaded. MPG 9-10. List was 47K but it was a new 12 in early 13 so greatly discounted. When I get another it will be another 3.5.

Side note: It's kind of amazing and a little irritating that whenever there is a 1/2 ton tow vehicle discussion the 3/4, 1 ton crowd seem to come out of the woodwork and start hammering on how great they are. I get it, they can tow more and have diesel available (I know, they're in 1/2 tons now). It's a half ton discussion, not a comparison. Ok, I'm done........ Sorry for the rant.

[skmct]

The big three all must feel that deisel has some advantages some where or they would not have put so much development money into there 1/2 ton deisel truck programs .

[skmct]

I also have to say this my wife has a ford edge 2.0 EcoBoost. When AI look under the hood I see a lot of my duramax . Like a turbo and direct injection. Some engine mods to increase compression and fuel delivery changes to increase injector pressure it might run on oil����

[cruisegrandma]

My truck's better than your truck, my truck's better than yours. My truck's better cause it pulls better, my truck's better than yours!

I'm like many others here. I have my favorite, but that doesn't mean the others are poor choices. By the way, I'm the DW and I chose the color! LOL! I love to drive it and I love to tow with it. What fun!

[thiswebs4u]

Don't tell the DW, but I was shopping for a Ram 3500 with the Aisin tranny and 1,000 pounds of torque. A reasonably equipped version can be had for under $60k. Not to worry since she hid all the ammo for the "Buckzooka":lol:

Yea, I got a 2018 Dodge Ram Diesel 3500 Crew Cab Long Bed Dually with Aisin Tranny, Max Payload 5610.00LBS Max Towing 24940.0LB, 33,800 LB, 385 hp, 930 lb-ft. This is a beast, up the mountain passes hauling 19k no problem.

[wiredgeorge]

Yea, I got a 2018 Dodge Ram Diesel 3500 Crew Cab Long Bed Dually with Aisin Tranny, Max Payload 5610.00LBS Max Towing 24940.0LB, 33,800 LB, 385 hp, 930 lb-ft. This is a beast, up the mountain passes hauling 19k no problem.

Yeah yeah... but my 2006 Ford F350XL SRW LB 6.0L cost me about a 1/10 of what a nice Ram costs... My favorite truck is a CHEAP ONE. I had a 96 F250 with 7.5L automatic and it could pull my 5ver easily... paid $1700 for it (and it looked like it) but I had a bug up my tail to get a diesel. I can pull 275000 lbs down hill too! Started this thread to marvel at the insane MSRP on a Ford F150 and not get anyone's dander up in truck envy. I would be driving one of those Ram one tons if I could afford it but I am just a poor ol' redneck who has to make due. Plus I ain't gotta clean any carpet cuz my truck ain't got any. And why waste water (I am going green) on washing a work truck?

[LERD]

Bought my 2013 F-150 3 years ago. Ecoboost with the 3.55 and towing package. Thought I was going to tow TT. Wife found a small 5th wheel she loved, and we keep it light enough for us to pull safely. When we retired and load it down more, we'll get a 3/4 or better. Till then, this truck pulls 8500 lbs beautifully. Our last trip from Ohio to Hilton Head we averaged 7.5 in the mountains and around 9 on the flatter stretches. BTW, no problems up the hills, or down. This truck will pull much faster than I care to pull at. 63-65 is just fine with me.

[NH_Bulldog]

Picked up our 2015 3.5L EB with 30k miles for $24k. Tows our Passport (scaled at 6,518 lbs loaded with 718 lbs TW). We get between 9-11 mpg and it has power to spare. I have to set the cruise at 65 mph otherwise I look down and find myself going 75. I was real skeptical on the EB but that 22 mpg when not towing is real nice!

[Sambucus]

NH_Bulldog, how do you like this trailer? I have a new Silverado and am in the process of realizing the larger trailers I was looking at are too big (2950BH). This one looks like it might fit my truck well (5.3L with 355 HP, 8 speed w/ Tow package)

Otherwise, hope things are well in the only Henniker on earth. (I am in Concord)

[ronheater70]

Today, 87 ethanol is 2.28/gal and diesel is 2.99/gal in my neck of the woods. And thats a pretty typical spread for most of the year. Yes, the diesel will get slightly better MPG's, but you wont make up that difference in the cost of the fuel. At best, its even. Its not, though, when you factor in the loss of MPG during regens. Also, you can use 89 or 90 rec fuel in the gasser and that MPG advantage mostly goes away. Sometimes it actually makes sense to use rec fuel, sometimes not. The price around here is usually about 10 cents more for 89 or 90 rec vs diesel. Thats not the case everywhere. And, we are ignoring DEF costs.

It is a myth that diesel 3/4-tons and 1-tons retain a higher percentage depreciation vs their gas counterparts. The depreciation percentage is nearly identical. You will get some of your diesel adder costs when you trade it in or sell it privately, just like you will for most of the other options you paid for. It will not be the full value. Dollar for dollar, you lose more the more expensive the truck was to begin with for at least three main reasons. Finance cost being one of them. Larger loans and for longer finance periods costs you more interest. More expensive truck, more expensive insurance. If you bought a $100k and a $50k truck and 5 years down the line you will get 50% of what you paid, well, for truck one you lost $50k and truck two you lost $25k. Its simple math, and its pretty hard to argue against. But, hey, whatever.

Again, I have nothing against (big) diesels. Stump pulling marvels of modern technology, I says. But to argue that diesel's are cheaper than gas in 3/4-tons and 1-tons is absurd. That math will never agree with you, simple as that. The small diesels, such as we are starting to see in half-tons and mid-size, is a whole other ball game. Those can actually be cheaper to own than their gas counterparts.

'Round here, the gas 3/4-tons and 1-tons are what flies off the lots. It is very difficult to find one with that just-right equipment level, and you usually have to either drive hundreds of miles to get it or you beg the dealer to do an inventory swap for you. As soon as they come in they are sold within days. Similar trucks but with the diesel? "We have every color, trim level, 4WD, 2WD, basically every major configuration you want if you went diesel." And so does the other dealer 10 miles away, and the one 20 miles away, and so on. You want gas, well, there is this one dealer 250 miles away that can actually keep in stock gassers that are not work trucks for longer than a week...

I bought a 2016 Ram 2500 6.4 brand new.. put 17K miles on it on a year and a 1/2.. I replaced it with a 2018 Ram 3500 diesel of the same configuration.. In almost 15K miles I think I have bough 2 gallons of def in addition to the full tank it was delivered with..Next to nothing on cost.
I have had one oil change. ready for the second one, but truck calls for 15K mile oil changes so in theory I could have been 1 oil change to 3 on the 6.4
I get about 3.5 more MPG towing my 10K trailer, but Now I tow a 13K fifth wheel. I tow that and get the same mileage I did with the 2500 6.4 towing 8K 27 footer camper. Empty im averaging about 4 more MPG in hilly terrain, about 2.5 more miles to the gallon on flat terrain where the gasser didnt have to work as hard. At this point in ownership, I'm actually slightly ahead in ownership with the diesel over a gas v8 version of the same exact truck.
I just dont see all this added cost stuff, expensive ownership mumbo jumbo..
Fuel filters are cheap and easy to change, def is nothing, differentials are the same in both variations, transmission service is about the same (the aisin is more frequent and exensive)With the EB I am using my brakes while towing a fraction as hard as I did on the gasser so they should really save me money there. So really other than a few more cents on the dollar which varies by location, and mostly is offset by additional milegae and at times of the year when fuel prices are low I actually save money on diesel with the mileage difference. I have experienced zero added cost of onwership and actually saved money with the diesel purchase... I dunno maybe Im odd?
I am noting that I am not countering in the additional up front cost of the diesel option, as that is not an ownership thing, but a purchase thing.
You cannot count the purcahse price because you are paying apremium price for premium benefits. If you wer paying additional cost for the diesel and not getting any additional rewards, then yea you could complain.

[larry337]

I bought a 2016 Ram 2500 6.4 brand new.. put 17K miles on it on a year and a 1/2.. I replaced it with a 2018 Ram 3500 diesel of the same configuration.. In almost 15K miles I think I have bough 2 gallons of def in addition to the full tank it was delivered with..Next to nothing on cost.
I have had one oil change. ready for the second one, but truck calls for 15K mile oil changes so in theory I could have been 1 oil change to 3 on the 6.4
I get about 3.5 more MPG towing my 10K trailer, but Now I tow a 13K fifth wheel. I tow that and get the same mileage I did with the 2500 6.4 towing 8K 27 footer camper. Empty im averaging about 4 more MPG in hilly terrain, about 2.5 more miles to the gallon on flat terrain where the gasser didnt have to work as hard. At this point in ownership, I'm actually slightly ahead in ownership with the diesel over a gas v8 version of the same exact truck.
I just dont see all this added cost stuff, expensive ownership mumbo jumbo..
Fuel filters are cheap and easy to change, def is nothing, differentials are the same in both variations, transmission service is about the same (the aisin is more frequent and exensive)With the EB I am using my brakes while towing a fraction as hard as I did on the gasser so they should really save me money there. So really other than a few more cents on the dollar which varies by location, and mostly is offset by additional milegae and at times of the year when fuel prices are low I actually save money on diesel with the mileage difference. I have experienced zero added cost of onwership and actually saved money with the diesel purchase... I dunno maybe Im odd?
I am noting that I am not countering in the additional up front cost of the diesel option, as that is not an ownership thing, but a purchase thing.
You cannot count the purcahse price because you are paying apremium price for premium benefits. If you wer paying additional cost for the diesel and not getting any additional rewards, then yea you could complain.Agree 100%

[travelin texans]

I bought a 2016 Ram 2500 6.4 brand new.. put 17K miles on it on a year and a 1/2.. I replaced it with a 2018 Ram 3500 diesel of the same configuration.. In almost 15K miles I think I have bough 2 gallons of def in addition to the full tank it was delivered with..Next to nothing on cost.
I have had one oil change. ready for the second one, but truck calls for 15K mile oil changes so in theory I could have been 1 oil change to 3 on the 6.4
I get about 3.5 more MPG towing my 10K trailer, but Now I tow a 13K fifth wheel. I tow that and get the same mileage I did with the 2500 6.4 towing 8K 27 footer camper. Empty im averaging about 4 more MPG in hilly terrain, about 2.5 more miles to the gallon on flat terrain where the gasser didnt have to work as hard. At this point in ownership, I'm actually slightly ahead in ownership with the diesel over a gas v8 version of the same exact truck.
I just dont see all this added cost stuff, expensive ownership mumbo jumbo..
Fuel filters are cheap and easy to change, def is nothing, differentials are the same in both variations, transmission service is about the same (the aisin is more frequent and exensive)With the EB I am using my brakes while towing a fraction as hard as I did on the gasser so they should really save me money there. So really other than a few more cents on the dollar which varies by location, and mostly is offset by additional milegae and at times of the year when fuel prices are low I actually save money on diesel with the mileage difference. I have experienced zero added cost of onwership and actually saved money with the diesel purchase... I dunno maybe Im odd?
I am noting that I am not countering in the additional up front cost of the diesel option, as that is not an ownership thing, but a purchase thing.
You cannot count the purcahse price because you are paying apremium price for premium benefits. If you wer paying additional cost for the diesel and not getting any additional rewards, then yea you could complain.

Different brand of truck with the same results!
So also agree 100%.

[sourdough]

Having followed this thread now for 55 posts I'm amazed at how a comment by George on a 1/2 ton comparison "shoot out" and the astronomical costs of new trucks morphs into a thread about diesel vs gas??? At least the original post did reference "V8" engines and a V6 EcoBoost…… Anybody read that post...??:D

[wiredgeorge]

Geesh! My turck is bigger than your trukc! bwhahaha I can go up the hill pulling my trailer and that is about all that matters. BTW: The Ford F150 wins in about every category but the Ram 1/2 ton takes overall honors by a hair and the Chevy is a distant 3rd in the Consumer Reports comparison of the half tons. My main gripe about almost all the trucks out there is that they try to make them look too macho and they come off as a tad tacky. Don't need any hood scoop on a truck unless it is some sort of racer! Honestly, if I had the money, I would be driving the Rockin' Y Ram 1 ton dually on Yellowstone. Geesh, just what a guy needs except it costs more then we paid for our house a number of years ago. My sister has a new 3/4 ton RED Ram (I think it is 2018?) and it has more gee gaws than you can imagine. Sweet truck but out of my price point range.

[{tpc}]

So I wrote up a long post yesterday and I got kicked off the forum before I could post it and it was gone.

So the condensed version. I believe that any new/newer truck should get 9-10 mpg towing, whether it be 5000 lbs or 6500 lbs. 6500 lbs just doesn't seem that that much load to me. If my truck was getting 5-6 mpg I would be concerned.

My f150 2.7 pulls my 5k trailer (weighed) great. I average around 10 mpg towing but have seen as high as 12 under the right conditions.

Any of these newer trucks, gm or ford can cost upwards of 72k based on how they are equipped. My old tahoe msrp was 45k and when i saw a new one at the auto show similarly equipped its sticker was 82k. My f150 msrp was 52k. The prices on these things are outrageous across the board imo. The tech has advanced and they perform a lot better but the cost has surpassed that imo.

The tahoe that I had was loaded ltz 2007. The one I saw was loaded ltz 2016. Same 5.3 engine with cyl deactivation, albeit probably upgraded some as the early ones had some issues, but essentially the same thing.

Fwiw, I didn't even look at the fords until someone on this forum suggested it, and I'm glad I did. I am hoping the aluminum body means no rust, but it probably means something else we don't know about yet. I may or may not stick with it, but as far as price goes, GM couldn't even get me close to where I needed to be for features and price point, and thats with GM employee discount. Though I did use Ford employee discount.

[wiredgeorge]

Didn't know they made a 2.7L Ecoboost. Interesting. Looked up a road test for a 2018 and the author liked the truck a lot. Unfortunately they seemed to ignore towing and talked about 0-60 times a lot. Not sure I ever had a truck where that was much of interest to me. No talk of towing or towing options which tells me Car & Driver ain't where I would want to check out working trucks.

https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/a19183397/2018-ford-f-150-27l-ecoboost-v-6-4x2-supercrew-test-review/

[larry337]

Having followed this thread now for 55 posts I'm amazed at how a comment by George on a 1/2 ton comparison "shoot out" and the astronomical costs of new trucks morphs into a thread about diesel vs gas??? At least the original post did reference "V8" engines and a V6 EcoBoost…… Anybody read that post...??:DIm not sure why you would be amazed. How many different truck threads have you read over the years. It seems to be par for the course to me. Most guys are very opinionated about their trucks. But to be clear it was a diesel bashing post by free88 who started the gas/diesel debate. Just saying, the diesel guys stayed out of it prior to that and then felt the need to contradict his statements. People say don't discuss religion or politics in mixed company buy I'd say you have to include pick up trucks in that group too!

[BulletOwner1]

So, remember I said that if I bought another truck I would get the 3.5 again? Well, I did! Discounted 13K. End of model year and end of month. Many more trailering years to go.

Let's face it, we all have our preferences, but each manufacturer is putting out decent stuff. Each with their pluses and minuses. If they didn't build good trucks they wouldn't be in business very long. I just happen to be in Ford's camp. My brother-in-law loves his Dodge's. (We won't talk about the times I've had to rescue him in my Ford :lol: ) And my nephew likes his Chevy's. What you gonna do?

[JRTJH]

Richard,

That's a good looking truck. What color is it? It looks like stone gray (sort of light brown).

[blubuckaroo]

Towing a 5th wheel or travel trailer is different from towing other loads like boats and car transports. The higher center of gravity and large surface area of an RV needs different considerations when selecting the tow vehicle and equipment.

We had a Tacoma (rated to tow 6500 pounds) that towed our 3000 pound travel trailer, 12' U-Haul, and even a car transport with a small car without any issues. But, when we bought our new 4700 pound Passport this year, we found that while the power was adequate, it felt like the load was pushing us around a bit on curving downgrades. So, we switch to a 1500 Silverado.

Now I draw the line at half of the tow rating when pulling an RV, no matter what the RV and car dealer try to tell me.

On the other end of this decision, there are those that think a 3/4 or 1 ton is needed to tow their small travel trailer and jet ski. That's ridiculous!
Your decision should be made on honest thought about how much you'll be packing, and how often you'll be doing this towing.

So, here's the before and after...
Oh, and by the way, I just loved that little Tacoma Truck! And it matched the blue on our Passport too!

[BulletOwner1]

Richard,

That's a good looking truck. What color is it? It looks like stone gray (sort of light brown).

Thanks. It's the color called Magnetic. Dark gray. We wanted the Stone Gray color but couldn't come up with one with the options we wanted. Magnetic was our second choice.

[JRTJH]

Thanks. It's the color called Magnetic. Dark gray. We wanted the Stone Gray color but couldn't come up with one with the options we wanted. Magnetic was our second choice.

We just bought a new stone gray Edge, my truck is "caribou" which is just a tad bit darker than DW's new Edge, so now we're "bookends" according to the neighbors. I'm amazed at the technology advances from 2015 (my truck) to 2019 (her Edge). It damn near drives itself, starts/stops at red lights, steers to stay in the middle of the lane and adjusts speed while the cruise is on automatically. We didn't get the "self parking option" but that's about all it's missing.

[travelin texans]

So I wrote up a long post yesterday and I got kicked off the forum before I could post it and it was gone.

So the condensed version. I believe that any new/newer truck should get 9-10 mpg towing, whether it be 5000 lbs or 6500 lbs. 6500 lbs just doesn't seem that that much load to me. If my truck was getting 5-6 mpg I would be concerned.

My f150 2.7 pulls my 5k trailer (weighed) great. I average around 10 mpg towing but have seen as high as 12 under the right conditions.

Any of these newer trucks, gm or ford can cost upwards of 72k based on how they are equipped. My old tahoe msrp was 45k and when i saw a new one at the auto show similarly equipped its sticker was 82k. My f150 msrp was 52k. The prices on these things are outrageous across the board imo. The tech has advanced and they perform a lot better but the cost has surpassed that imo.

The tahoe that I had was loaded ltz 2007. The one I saw was loaded ltz 2016. Same 5.3 engine with cyl deactivation, albeit probably upgraded some as the early ones had some issues, but essentially the same thing.

Fwiw, I didn't even look at the fords until someone on this forum suggested it, and I'm glad I did. I am hoping the aluminum body means no rust, but it probably means something else we don't know about yet. I may or may not stick with it, but as far as price goes, GM couldn't even get me close to where I needed to be for features and price point, and thats with GM employee discount. Though I did use Ford employee discount.


Is that 2.7 a 4 cylinder?

[{tpc}]

Is that 2.7 a 4 cylinder?

No its a 6 cylinder.

[blubuckaroo]

Let's face it, we all have our preferences, but each manufacturer is putting out decent stuff. Each with their pluses and minuses. If they didn't build good trucks they wouldn't be in business very long. I just happen to be in Ford's camp. My brother-in-law loves his Dodge's. (We won't talk about the times I've had to rescue him in my Ford :lol: ) And my nephew likes his Chevy's. What you gonna do?

Same with my family!:)
I've always preferred GMs because of their square wheel wells. Sure, I know, it's just a style thing. But now the new 2019 GMs have started using round wheel wells like everyone else. :confused:

[wiredgeorge]

Believe the 2020 HD Silverados have square wheel wells. I was kind of amazed at the 2020 Corvette. Looks like a Masserati or something. Probably would look silly driving a car like that plus would need a lift assist to get in or out.

[ADQ K9]

Here is something that is curious, What is the cost of safety? IMO this drives up the cost of vehicles almost exponentionaly (SP) Airbags, ABS, Cameras, Radar, TPMS etc. Pretty much all federal mandated. So who is really to blame for the high prices these new vehicles command? I know there are other factors involved but I think the safety devices are a big part.

[travelin texans]

Reading some news that all the big 3 auto maker unions may go on strike, so here comes another big increase in vehicle pricing.

[BulletOwner1]

It damn near drives itself, starts/stops at red lights,

Yeah, that stop/start thing just about freaked me out the first time I realized what was going on. Not sure I like that. Might ask the dealer if there is a way to disable that. Probably not, it most likely is involved with the emissions so won't be disableable ( is that a word??? ).

[mwemaxxowner]

So I wrote up a long post yesterday and I got kicked off the forum before I could post it and it was gone.

So the condensed version. I believe that any new/newer truck should get 9-10 mpg towing, whether it be 5000 lbs or 6500 lbs. 6500 lbs just doesn't seem that that much load to me. If my truck was getting 5-6 mpg I would be concerned.

My f150 2.7 pulls my 5k trailer (weighed) great. I average around 10 mpg towing but have seen as high as 12 under the right conditions.

Any of these newer trucks, gm or ford can cost upwards of 72k based on how they are equipped. My old tahoe msrp was 45k and when i saw a new one at the auto show similarly equipped its sticker was 82k. My f150 msrp was 52k. The prices on these things are outrageous across the board imo. The tech has advanced and they perform a lot better but the cost has surpassed that imo.

The tahoe that I had was loaded ltz 2007. The one I saw was loaded ltz 2016. Same 5.3 engine with cyl deactivation, albeit probably upgraded some as the early ones had some issues, but essentially the same thing.

Fwiw, I didn't even look at the fords until someone on this forum suggested it, and I'm glad I did. I am hoping the aluminum body means no rust, but it probably means something else we don't know about yet. I may or may not stick with it, but as far as price goes, GM couldn't even get me close to where I needed to be for features and price point, and thats with GM employee discount. Though I did use Ford employee discount.That's the same way I feel about mine.

[Just chillin]

Better keep that thing under a warranty. We have a car in the family that does that. Can’t disable it. Eats batteries and starters. Had to have the engine and trans pulled out of it the other day to replace the flywheel because it broke a tooth off it. To the tune of about $3500. All because they think it gets better fuel mileage if it turns off at the red light. Good thing it was under warranty.

[sourdough]

Believe the 2020 HD Silverados have square wheel wells. I was kind of amazed at the 2020 Corvette. Looks like a Masserati or something. Probably would look silly driving a car like that plus would need a lift assist to get in or out.


Ha! A few years back my son brought by a new Ferrari; mid engine, bright red with bright red valve covers under the rear glass, sounded FANTASTIC. He offered to let me drive it. Getting in was sort of curl up and fall in but getting out, with all the stiffness from so many surgeries, I had to literally reach out the door and put my hands on the pavement (it was "right there) and try to crawl out. Thanked my son, told him the drive was magnificent, but...there was no way in this world anyone would ever talk me into getting into one of those again. :lol:

[travelin texans]

[QUOTE=mwemaxxowner;357411]That's the same way I feel about mine.[/QUOTE

My new Jeep Wrangler has this start/stop feature also, drives me nuts. The biggest problem is in Arizona's triple digit temps when the motor shuts off so does the air conditioner & it's too damn hot to be without even for a few seconds.
The Jeep has a button on the dash that disables it. The symbol looks like this "@" but with a capital "A", but has to be disabled every time you start the vehicle.

[mwemaxxowner]

Mine has a button to disable it also. I'm not sure why people whine about it so much since there is a button on the dash to disable it. There are a myriad of ways to defeat it, each option with its own side effect.

If max AC is selected, it will not shut the vehicle down. It also will not shut off if the defrost is on, trailer is plugged in, amongst other things. I personally leave mine on and it doesn't bother me. If it did, I'd learn to push the button. 80,000 miles and counting. The 2.7 has been out with that "feature" since '15, and we're still not really seeing failures of starters or batteries, etc due to the A.S.S.

It doesn't save much fuel, but what it does do is save a minute amount of fuel under certain tests that when multiplied over the millions of trucks sold that has it, helps them with EPA stuff. I don't imagine Ford or anybody else really WANTED to invest the time and money to add something like this to their vehicles that most owners aren't going to love.

My coworker has a truck similar to mine, but a Chevrolet. He's not crazy about his cylinder deactivation, but like me he doesn't fret over it too much. It is what it is. I'm afraid that measures like this to save minute amounts of fuel aren't going away, but those technologies are still in their infancy. Hopefully it will continue to become smoother, and more effective at least.

[sourdough]

[QUOTE=mwemaxxowner;357411]That's the same way I feel about mine.[/QUOTE

My new Jeep Wrangler has this start/stop feature also, drives me nuts. The biggest problem is in Arizona's triple digit temps when the motor shuts off so does the air conditioner & it's too damn hot to be without even for a few seconds.
The Jeep has a button on the dash that disables it. The symbol looks like this "@" but with a capital "A", but has to be disabled every time you start the vehicle.

^^^^This. I was going to say that I had rented a new Grand Cherokee that went thru this terribly annoying process and found out it could be disabled by the button Danny mentioned. Maybe the other brands have a process outlined in their owner's manual? I would never have a vehicle with that in it. Not only is it extremely annoying and disconcerting, all I can see are endless pitfalls if it fails and nothing redeeming about it.

[JRTJH]

Yeah, that stop/start thing just about freaked me out the first time I realized what was going on. Not sure I like that. Might ask the dealer if there is a way to disable that. Probably not, it most likely is involved with the emissions so won't be disableable ( is that a word??? ).

There's a button just behind the shift knob (rotary knob on the console) that you push to disable the auto stop/start. It only works for that ignition cycle, so it's going to become a part of the startup process, much like checking the emergency brake and putting the transmission in "D"..... I have "this morbid fear" of the light changing to green, me pressing the accelerator and nothing happening.... So, for me, I'm pushing the disable button every time I start the car. DW, on the other hand, thinks it's a neat feature. She stopped at the end of our drive, just to try it out.... Sheesh !!! :facepalm:

For me, auto start will stay a part of golf cart technology, not freeway technology :angel:

[{tpc}]

You can buy a thing you plug into the harness behind the "button" for about $100. All it does is "lock in" the off position regardless of ignition cycles. I have just got used to pushing the button and it doesn't bother me too much. Cyl deactivation on my tahoe was seemless feeling as well, but I don't miss the 16 mpg I was getting when I wasn't towing anyways lol. That was a old truck with lots of miles so I didn't fret much, and the newer ones are a lot better.

Other than having the start stop lock in on my truck, the only other thing i would wish for is a lock in on the drive mode. I realize that it pretty much only changes the tip-in for the most part, but if I want to leave in eco mode or sport mode, I wish I didn't have to push the button every time.

[mwemaxxowner]

You can buy a thing you plug into the harness behind the "button" for about $100. All it does is "lock in" the off position regardless of ignition cycles. I have just got used to pushing the button and it doesn't bother me too much. Cyl deactivation on my tahoe was seemless feeling as well, but I don't miss the 16 mpg I was getting when I wasn't towing anyways lol. That was a old truck with lots of miles so I didn't fret much, and the newer ones are a lot better.

Other than having the start stop lock in on my truck, the only other thing i would wish for is a lock in on the drive mode. I realize that it pretty much only changes the tip-in for the most part, but if I want to leave in eco mode or sport mode, I wish I didn't have to push the button every time.There is a module that will do that also. It's about $300.

I just press the button to get me to sport mode. Lol

[GMcKenzie]

Cyl deactivation on my tahoe was seemless feeling as well,

I can feel when my truck goes into V4 mode, and it is definatley more sluggish. Feels like the truck is lugging and not shifting up as needed when in V4.

IF I keep this truck (and I'm looking at 3/4 or 1 tons), I am going to get it tuned to remove V4 mode under 70kmh or so. I don't mind it on the freeway, but it annoys me at slower speeds.

I do kinda wish I had the auto start/stop though. I've rented vehicles with it and, after the surprise the first time, found they work fine. But I've not had long term use of one.

[mwemaxxowner]

My buddy says that it feels like his truck is trying to resist going into v8 mode and starts lugging in v4, then almost shudders slightly as it switches over. He says it's more apparent when he's towing. He said it's only a minor gripe and he still loves his truck.

I didn't say any of that to mean it as a stab against the Chevrolet, his truck is awesome. I merely meant it to say that they are all trying this sort of stuff and they all have their quirks. I'm sure none of the manufacturers really want to add this stuff.

[JRTJH]

My buddy says that it feels like his truck is trying to resist going into v8 mode and starts lugging in v4, then almost shudders slightly as it switches over. He says it's more apparent when he's towing. He said it's only a minor gripe and he still loves his truck.

I didn't say any of that to mean it as a stab against the Chevrolet, his truck is awesome. I merely meant it to say that they are all trying this sort of stuff and they all have their quirks. I'm sure none of the manufacturers really want to add this stuff.

Chrysler had a similar "cylinder deactivation system" in their vehicles years ago. If I remember correctly, there was a warning in the owner's manual to switch the system off before towing to prevent engine damage....

Maybe GM has "perfected the system" and locking it out when towing is no longer needed... I'd suggest you mention to your buddy that he might want to check his owner's manual to see if there's a similar warning about towing with cylinder deactivation on his truck..... Might save him an engine change just after the warranty expires !!!!

[mwemaxxowner]

There is no way to turn it off.

[blubuckaroo]

My 2018 Silverado has that cylinder deactivation. I'm not usually a fan of such technology, but if it wasn't indicated on the display that it was running on 4 or 8 cylinders, you wouldn't be able to tell. I've found the switch into and out of cylinder deactivation to be unnoticeable.
The best thing is that I'm still amazed at the fuel economy this thing gets, both with and without a trailer behind it.

I think the biggest thing when buying a 1/2 ton pickup for towing is you need to educate yourself on the tow options you have available with each model.
I had a selection of 3.07, 3.23, 3.42, and 3.73 axle ratios.
You need to throw the percentage of time you'll be towing into your decision too. No use running around with low gears when you don't need to. The difference is obvious in your fuel economy on one end and towing ability on the other. DONT just buy the pickup and decide to live with whatever gears are in it! This is the most important detail of your new truck.
I ended up selecting the 3.42 axle ratio. It seems like a good compromise that has enough grunt for my 4700 pound trailer as well as great mileage.

[LFitzgerald]

Any suggestions as to what mid size vehicle I should use to pull 2008 Keystone Outback 21RS. I will only be driving it to campground one time (renting seasonal) about 3000 miles from where I live. Cannot/would not, afford a new vehicle... and don't want diesel. New to this, so appreciate any suggestions. ... Regards, Linda

[wiredgeorge]

Any suggestions as to what mid size vehicle I should use to pull 2008 Keystone Outback 21RS. I will only be driving it to campground one time (renting seasonal) about 3000 miles from where I live. Cannot/would not, afford a new vehicle... and don't want diesel. New to this, so appreciate any suggestions. ... Regards, Linda

I suggest a half ton truck with a receiver fastened or welded to the frame with other than the base engine. I had a 2013 Ford F150 with the base V6 that would not have been happy pulling your prospective trailer. I would personally look for a 5 liter plus V8 gas (no turbo) with a trailer tow package.

[blubuckaroo]

Any suggestions as to what mid size vehicle I should use to pull 2008 Keystone Outback 21RS. I will only be driving it to campground one time (renting seasonal) about 3000 miles from where I live. Cannot/would not, afford a new vehicle... and don't want diesel. New to this, so appreciate any suggestions. ... Regards, Linda

That 21RS is a neat unit! Well equipped for family campouts. My Son and Daughter-in Law just bought one to travel with their two children.
It weighs about 4500 pounds, which puts it in the range of a 1/2 ton pickup or large SUV like a Tahoe, Suburban, or Expedition.
I personally draw the line at only half of what the vehicle manufacturer claims for tow capacity when using it to tow an RV. Even though the tow vehicle can handle a certain trailer weight, RVs tend to be more top heavy and have more surface area than some other towing loads.

[GMcKenzie]

There is no way to turn it off.

You kind of have 2 options to disable it.

Note that it is still enabled when in T/H mode (which I wish that would disable it).

Easiest is to shift into M5 (or M7 or M9 depending on the tranny) and that will lock out V4 mode as well as top overdrive gear. I do this around town a fair bit (where O/D won't matter).

Other than that there are tunes and/or devices that can lock it out.Range device will kill V4 mode while plugged in. With a tune you could disable it under a certain speed, which I may do if I keep the truck.