Brand vs. Brand

[Bolo4u]

Hi all, its been a while since i've posted here. We owned a 2016 Keytone Cougar 333MKS which we purchased new, and I lived in it about 80% of the time we owned, as it was parked at an RV park while I world out of town. We took a couple trips in it and really had very few issues overall with the unit. The few problems we did have, I was able to resolve myself. With that said, we sold it early this year to a Paradise Camp Fire victim.

We're looking at getting back into a 5r, and while the model we had, had a nice layout and was very suitable for a couple or family with a small child, it wouldn't have lasted long with my wife I and our 9 yo son and golden-doodle.

Im looking at a mid bedroom type of layout (vs. a rear bunkhouse), and we will likely go up a notch to a higher end model, since Ill be retiring at the end of this year.

With that said, I do like Keystone, but I'm not averse to a different brand.

For those of you who have had a different brand or may be looking at going to a different brand, what are some of your opinions. I know that not all the brands have a mid-bedroom type floorplan.

Also, as far as Keystone is considered, is it a fair assumption to say the Alpine and Avalanche are generally equivalent to the Montana and Montana HC?

Thanks in advance.

[chuckster57]

Do you mean a mid master bedroom? I haven't seen anything like that, I have seen rear master/front living. Mid seems to be for the kitchen. Grand Designs does make a Solitude with a mid "playroom" with a bunk above it. It's in the Solitude line, and as far as I know Grand Designs doesn't void the warranty for "extended stay" (full time).

[Bolo4u]

Do you mean a mid master bedroom? I haven't seen anything like that, I have seen rear master/front living. Mid seems to be for the kitchen. Grand Designs does make a Solitude with a mid "playroom" with a bunk above it. It's in the Solitude line, and as far as I know Grand Designs doesn't void the warranty for "extended stay" (full time).
Thanks Chuck. I should clarify, looking for a mid "playroom" type layout (like the MONTANA HIGH COUNTRY 384BR). We won't be doing any full time... for a few years, as our son is just starting 4th grade.

[chuckster57]

Your welcome. There are lots of choices these days, I would probably just figure on a few trips to a few different dealers and look. We spent 3 years and countless hours/miles looking before we bought the present fiver. Good luck in your search, and please post up your short list when you get to that point.

[gearhead]

I'm thinking the Avalanche is a cut above the Montana High Country. Not sure which is considered top of line...Montana or Alpine.
You may look at Redwoods and Heartland Landmark 365 for some floor plans as well.

[CaptnJohn]

My neighbors have a Montana with a bonus room. Desk and cabinets plus a sofa bed. Also a loft above the room. It is a 2018.

[Bolo4u]

My neighbors have a Montana with a bonus room. Desk and cabinets plus a sofa bed. Also a loft above the room. It is a 2018.



Do they like it? It's one of the units were considering.

[CaptnJohn]

Do they like it? It's one of the units were considering.



They are extremely pleased. Zero problems and tows great for them. I know they are overloaded pulling with a 2017 F250 diesel 4x4. He states it tows very good. They go often and stay long periods.

[notanlines]

Keystone still considers the Montana as the flagship of their company. The Alpine, High Country and Avalanche all seem to be just ever so slightly back grouped in 2nd place. All are fine brands, but I might put the High Country back as a little too light weight. YMMV

[Alpine]

Keystone still considers the Montana as the flagship of their company. The Alpine, High Country and Avalanche all seem to be just ever so slightly back grouped in 2nd place. All are fine brands, but I might put the High Country back as a little too light weight. YMMV


Are you speaking to quality/fit & finish... or units sold?

[notanlines]

Jeffrey, I tried a reply about 1:30 or so but the site was not good to me and after five years or so my password went haywire as did everything else. I just LOVE new systems invented just to keep people employed....
But I digress. I'm certainly not going by units sold, With the Montana being a relatively costly unit and having passed 100K in sales that alone speaks for itself. I'm simply voicing what we found was the message during our factory tour early last year. The people we talked to at the plant didn't talk down any particular brand, they just sort of flaunted the Montana brand more than the others. We have been in literally dozens and dozens of RV brands and models over the years from high dollar to 'Lord, I wouldn't be seen dead in that' models. My personal opinion came in when I said that the High Country seems to the lowest of the four we discussed. I simply believe that it was built
with lighter weight products, hence I put it last. Again, YMMV.

[ChuckS]

When we finally made out our first fifth wheel purchase we went with Alpine (2014)... we had looked at Montana line and also Jayco and GD..

Went with Alpine mainly because in 2014 the Montana units we looked at did not have HP on Zone 1 AC unit.

Both drop frame.

No regrets with our 2014 Alpine ... 4th Keystone unit for us. Love the hydraulic leveling system and all hydraulic slide outs

I am not fond at all so far with the new In Command system on new Keystone models... ASE Jensen and Keystone have some improvements to make. Thankfully ours didn’t come with that system.

[Alpine]

Jeffrey, I tried a reply about 1:30 or so but the site was not good to me and after five years or so my password went haywire as did everything else. I just LOVE new systems invented just to keep people employed....
But I digress. I'm certainly not going by units sold, With the Montana being a relatively costly unit and having passed 100K in sales that alone speaks for itself. I'm simply voicing what we found was the message during our factory tour early last year. The people we talked to at the plant didn't talk down any particular brand, they just sort of flaunted the Montana brand more than the others. We have been in literally dozens and dozens of RV brands and models over the years from high dollar to 'Lord, I wouldn't be seen dead in that' models. My personal opinion came in when I said that the High Country seems to the lowest of the four we discussed. I simply believe that it was built
with lighter weight products, hence I put it last. Again, YMMV.

Whoa what a coincidence... I could not get signed in either! "They" kept saying my "user name" & "password" were the same? They never were...ever!!! Every time I would type in my password, it would say is was wrong! So I had to jump through hoops and have a new password given to me through my e-mail.

[belljo54]

I purchased a Cougar mid-bedroom model last year and love it. The extra storage in the room as well as the "attic loft" it provides were the main reasons we wanted this model - we live in it for 6 months at a time. It also provides a guest room when someone visits.

[pdaniel]

We looked at Cougar and Montana 5th wheels, along with Jayco. All had their strong points and shortcomings. But, Grand Design suited us. Sorry Keystone, we went with the Solitude.

[itat]

If you want to see other brands' offerings that are similar to the Montana you mentioned, I'd look at Forest River's Cedar Creek 37MBH (https://forestriverinc.com/rvs/fifth-wheels/cedar-creek-silverback-edition/37MBH/1764).

[ADQ K9]

We are currently doing homework for a full time 5er purchase. Looking for a front or rear kitchen layout. There are some Keystone floorplans we like but we want some thing certified for full time and are looking at possibly going custom Have researched DRV, and New Horizions. Gonna take a look at Luxe and Space Craft too. Yes these are high end units but the are also built for full time living.:twocents:

[Roscommon48]

the High Country is a little less overall from the Montana and the HC is lighter. Alpine and Avalance are about equal to Montana....in my opinion.

We have always gone with the Montana.

As for quality, it has been hit or miss on the trailers we've had. Luck probably has something to do with it.

[travelin texans]

We are currently doing homework for a full time 5er purchase. Looking for a front or rear kitchen layout. There are some Keystone floorplans we like but we want some thing certified for full time and are looking at possibly going custom Have researched DRV, and New Horizions. Gonna take a look at Luxe and Space Craft too. Yes these are high end units but the are also built for full time living.:twocents:

Might check out the Redwood line as well, same quality & similar floorplans as DRV for much less $$$$, both are Thor products. The Luxe is in the same category as far as quality as Redwood & DRV, all are advertised as full-time coaches. We had very good service with minimal issues for 6+ years full-timing in our Redwood & would/do recommend them.
As for the Spacecraft & New Horizons you'll need more truck than a 350/3500 or 450/4500, they'll require a heavy duty truck. As long as you're looking at HUGE HEAVY EXPENSIVE 5ers, check out Continental Coach also.

[DrSmart1]

Jayco has a 2 year warranty and is warranted for full timing. The structure is 3 year warranty similar to some other manufacturers. If you have the opportunity to visit a Jayco dealer, here are a couple of mid room models:


https://www.jayco.com/products/fifth-wheels/2019-north-point/377rlbh/




https://www.jayco.com/products/fifth-wheels/2019-pinnacle/37mdqs/

[JRTJH]

Jayco has a 2 year warranty and is warranted for full timing. The structure is 3 year warranty similar to some other manufacturers. If you have the opportunity to visit a Jayco dealer, here are a couple of mid room models:
https://www.jayco.com/products/fifth-wheels/2019-north-point/377rlbh/
https://www.jayco.com/products/fifth-wheels/2019-pinnacle/37mdqs/

This is on page 30 of the Jayco Pinnacle Owner's Manual:

"Extended Or Full Time Usage
Your new recreation vehicle has been built for enjoyment in a recreational manner. It is not intended for use as full-time quarters or a permanent residence. Continuous living in your vehicle could cause accelerated wear and damage to the various components."

"CAUTION: Continuous or permanent living in your recreation vehicle may affect your warranty coverage and may void the “Limited Warranty” applicable to your vehicle."

The three year structural warranty for Jayco towable products started with 2020 models. It does not include any previous models (per the Jayco website)
https://www.jayco.com/products/fifth-wheels/2019-pinnacle/warranty-info/

[DrSmart1]

This is on page 30 of the Jayco Pinnacle Owner's Manual:

"Extended Or Full Time Usage
Your new recreation vehicle has been built for enjoyment in a recreational manner. It is not intended for use as full-time quarters or a permanent residence. Continuous living in your vehicle could cause accelerated wear and damage to the various components."

"CAUTION: Continuous or permanent living in your recreation vehicle may affect your warranty coverage and may void the “Limited Warranty” applicable to your vehicle."

The three year structural warranty for Jayco towable products started with 2020 models. It does not include any previous models (per the Jayco website)
https://www.jayco.com/products/fifth-wheels/2019-pinnacle/warranty-info/


Hi John. Starting with the 2020 North Point and Pinnacle models Jayco is providing 2 years warranty for full timing and is stated in their 2020 documentation. They also made it retroactive for 2019 models. They have been slow to update their on line documentation.

[JRTJH]

That's not what the owner's manual and the downloadable information reflects. If there's additional documentation, please provide either a pdf or a photo of the source document. Otherwise, it's a competing brand to Keystone and "ACCURATE" information is welcomed. Recommending a competitor without accurate source documents isn't a great way to join a product related forum.

[DrSmart1]

That's not what the owner's manual and the downloadable information reflects. If there's additional documentation, please provide either a pdf or a photo of the source document. Otherwise, it's a competing brand to Keystone and "ACCURATE" information is welcomed. Recommending a competitor without accurate source documents isn't a great way to join a product related forum.


Sorry our documentation is in our trailer. This from Haylett RV:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cRT9ELLw5AE

[JRTJH]

Good information, but so far, it's a "sales video from an RV dealership" with no documentation from Jayco to support the claims. In the video he says, "Jayco is stepping up to the plate with full time living warranty like Montana does." At any rate, I'd want to see it in writing from Jayco before putting it out as "facts you can count on".....

[sourdough]

Sorry our documentation is in our trailer. This from Haylett RV:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cRT9ELLw5AE


I'm sure I can pull up a video somewhere of some tow vehicle pulling the space shuttle, or 100,000 lbs. of bricks...but, it has nothing to do with reality. I've watched many Haylett RV videos but the manufacturer certainly doesn't abide or honor anything they say.

My thought would be, as John mentioned, been here for 3 posts and nothing said but the "wonderfulness" of Jayco, which I've owned, and nothing of benefit that I can see for Keystone owners as far as concerns for a unit or beneficial input. What say you??

[DrSmart1]

Gentlemen. I didn't realize my comments would bring about this kind of response but I can understand your concerns for validation. I only recently joined this forum but have been a member of the MOC group for 9 years. We enjoyed our Montana and traveled many miles with it. It has taken good care of us. When we decided to look for a new trailer, the dealer carried Montana and Jayco products. We just happened to like the floor plan in the North Point and went with it. They're all under Thor now anyway. The 2020 North Point has been at dealers for a couple of months now but the web site hasn't been updated yet. I sent Jayco a request for the updated warranty this morning and their response was "We are hoping to have the 2020 product information on our website before the week is out.Thanks again for your note. Please let us know if you have any follow-up questions or needs"
Hopefully my comments regarding the full time warranty will be easily sourced by the end of the week. I'm not willing to make the one hour round trip to our trailer storage to take a photo of the warranty page in our manual. Anyone can call a Jayco dealer or Jayco themselves if interested.

[JRTJH]

DrSmart1,

Check your PM's.

[wiredgeorge]

I think it is a great idea to haze anyone with a post count under... well say 10. That way we can see if they are true Keystone believers! Go get 'em John!

Honestly, I think the guy is seriously trying to make what he feels is a valid point. Being touchy when someone politely disagrees is a poor way to get old.

[Tbos]

Last year at the Richmond VA RV show in Feb I talked to rep of a company owned by Thor. They said Thor invest in companies and helps build their infrastructure to improve production. Thor then lets the companies run themselves. He also said that when Forest River buys a company they enforce their processes. I’m not sure which is better. I’ve seen issues with rigs from companies owned by either parent company. FWIW, I like Alpines but still wish they’d build in more quality. Even in high dollar rigs I see shortcuts. JM2C. [emoji39]

[pdaniel]

This is on page 30 of the Jayco Pinnacle Owner's Manual:

"Extended Or Full Time Usage
Your new recreation vehicle has been built for enjoyment in a recreational manner. It is not intended for use as full-time quarters or a permanent residence. Continuous living in your vehicle could cause accelerated wear and damage to the various components."

"CAUTION: Continuous or permanent living in your recreation vehicle may affect your warranty coverage and may void the “Limited Warranty” applicable to your vehicle."

The three year structural warranty for Jayco towable products started with 2020 models. It does not include any previous models (per the Jayco website)
https://www.jayco.com/products/fifth-wheels/2019-pinnacle/warranty-info/
I owned a Keystone product. When we looked we also considered Jayco. Settled for the Keystone. That was a mistake. So, this past spring DW and I went to a local RV show to find something to replace the Cougar. We were looking for an "extended stay" 5th wheel. Looked at the Cougar (again), Montana, Jayco and Solitude. One noticeable thing with the Thor products they all exhibit the same type of workmanship, and shortcuts. The Montana and Jayco should have stood out but didn't. There were no Forest River brands-Cedar Creek or Cardinal-on display. So, we took a chance on looking closer at the Solitude. And went back and forth comparing. Settled on the Solitude. Yes, I will agree they all have their issues. A friend of mine told me not too long ago, an owner of a Tiffin Allegro Bus, that we, the buyer, are the quality control department. Very true.

[JRTJH]

I have a friend who owns a 2 million dollar motorhome. It's his second, the first was a 1.5 million dollar model. They live in the motorhome half the year and in their house the other half of the year. BOTH of his motorhomes have been riddled with problems and he has not yet managed to complete a trip with either. His regular agenda is to drive the motorhome for his "vacation" and drop it off at the factory for repairs and fly home, fly back out to get it when the factory gets the repairs done and when he gets it home, drop it off at the dealership to fix the things that break on the trip from the factory. On a trip about a year ago (on his "cheap one") he broke down in the northwest, left it in a small town, caught a taxi to the airport and flew home, called his dealer and told them to deal with it.

Trust me when I say, it's not "just Keystone", just THOR, just Tiffin, just towables, just cheap units, just bad luck..... The RV industry produces "exactly what the public will purchase"....... Would it be nice if they were all problem free? sure would.... Will it happen? Not as long as people are standing in line with credit approvals in hand to buy anything they drag to a dealer's lot.....

It's easy to blame Keystone, or THOR or ???? but in reality, until the public "just says NO" things aren't going to change.... We get what we line up to say yes to and buy as fast as they can sling 'em together.

[Big1]

Yep, pretty much I agree.

[Ken / Claudia]

This week I had a article pop up on google about poor RV build quality. I did not save it or remember who authored the story. For fun I read it with an open mind. They talked about recent years the high numbers being built. A school opened to teach workers how to build and service RVs and thought that may help in the future. Interviewed a bunch of R/V owners who just purchased motorhomes to pull trailers. No one was happy with the construction and problems the units had. All different makes included. Author made a comment about how it is not like buying a car at all and new RV buyers have no idea about how common issues are. Also mentioned the long time frames at dealers to get work done. I wondered how much the author had pulled from this site since the old timers have been saying almost everything he wrote. Bottom line was the RV industry as a whole has issues just as stated in this post and sorry to say Keystone is no better or worse than everyone else.
My opinion is do a better PDI, fix stuff yourself or learn how to. Hope the unit you got is free of any major defects. To keep any value or life in any RV they require maintenance and a lot of maintenance. Either by the owner or a shop. In the end of a 10 year loan most RVs are about ready for the salvage yard.

[CenTXMichellle]

We have a 2018 Avalanche 375RD. Everyone loves the roomy home-like layout and the only problem we've had has been with the furnace, but the dealer swapped it out while we waited. We have lived in it full time from day one. At home, we are on our own property on concrete with a cover, so it is well taken care of. The 5w feels like it was designe for me. It is 2 yrs old next month.

[CenTXMichellle]

That's sad. We bought a 1999 Fleetwood Flair class A for $14,000 cash 2 years ago, hubby had to work on the hydraulics, otherwise we've been all over Texas and in the mountains on New Mexico with zero problems. Maybe your friend should looked at used ones and keep some money and time to enjoy life.

[kckettridge]

We have had many different brands over the years and just purchased our 2020 Cougar 315RLS this year. Not real happy with the fit, finish and overall construction of the unit but most brands are "cheaping out" on everything they build. That being said; out of all the different brands, the Heartland; Grand Design and Crossroads (before Keystone bought them) were probably the best in terms of build quality, fit and finish. BTW, our Cougar is at the dealer now for warranty work. Only twice out and already have had issues.