Awning on Bullet Premier 2014 will not retract

[lzongker]

My awning will not extend. Looking in the fuse panel which is not labeled for each fuse I see a red light blink when I push the switch to extend the awning. The fuse next to it and above it are good. Does anyone know where I can find a manual just for the Bullet 22rpbr?

[KeithInUpstateNY]

There are not manuals for specific models, like a car or a truck. When you purchase a trailer new you get a collection of manuals for the components: one for the furnace, one for the refrigerator, the range, water pump, water heater, awning, etc. What you need to do is determine the make and model of the awning and search for an electronic version of the manual online. Start by looking at the tops of the arms where the roller attaches. The plastic housing usually has some kind of identification for the manufacturer. If you can't figure it out post a pic and maybe someone hear can help.

[Northofu1]

Does one fuse blink red when trying to open the awning?

It sounds crazy, but try to "retract" the awning. If that extends the awning, then it got retracted in the wrong direction.

Just checking

[Bostongone]

Does the red led actually blink when you press the button or is it actually on for as long as you press the button? The leds purpose is to indicate a open fuse but it will not light until it has a ground connection which is thru the switch and the motor in this circuit. I would replace this fuse and see if the blinking red led problem goes away (and the awning works).

[lzongker]

The red LED light stays on as long as the switch is held down. It is next to something labeled, 1610-92 which I looked up and is an ETA circuit protection and control circuit breaker. I checked with Keystone customer support and she didn't know what I was talking about. She directed me to a fuse box located near the batteries which I could not find, don't think there really is one. It maybe located somewhere else but not near the batteries. I did find an inline 30amp fuse in a white cable. Does anyone know what fuse box she was talking about.

[Bostongone]

In your first post you mentioned that the led is next to a fuse which you said was good and now you say it is next to a circuit breaker device. I am not sure how that circuit breaker is supposed to work or if it can be reset somehow. It should be resettable. If not and it is removable which it should be remove it and find a replacement. Pretty sure the problem is no power to the awning and it starts in the power center.

[lzongker]

When I first checked the red led it just flashed and I only could see the approximate location. After my wife held the switch on, the red led light stayed on and I was able to pinpoint the exact location. I am going to try and find a new 1610-92 circuit breaker and replace the one that could be bad. I am not sure how this device works because it looks more like a fuse and plugs in just like a fuse.

[JRTJH]

The 1610-92 circuit breaker is actually a thermal fuse. It comes in multiple amperage ratings, so when you replace it, be sure that it's the correct amperage size. I'm guessing that it's a 15 amp circuit as most of Keystone's DC distribution is protected by 15 amp fuses.

This part is "pure speculation" so take it for what it costs you: I seldom see a resettable thermal fuse which is "more expensive than a conventional fuse" installed in the DC fuse panel (by the factory). Your finding one installed where most (maybe all) other trailers have a standard fuse, would tell me that the previous owner may have had issues with the fuse blowing for some other reason than a "weak fuse". For that reason (repeated fuse blowing) he "may" have installed a "resettable thermal fuse" to avoid having to buy so many replacements. With that, he "may" have installed a larger amperage one, to "force the awning to work" in spite of a problem..... That fuse, if it's typical, should have a 15 amp device installed.

Some of the issues that you might have if it continues to blow, are corrosion in the motor, corrosion or a loose/bad connection at a wiring junction, a loose/bad ground, a shorted wire at one of the bending/flexing joints in the awning arm (where it articulates to open/close) or even a bad switch that shorts out when you press the switch plate.

I'd suggest you do some "sleuthing" to find out if there's more to fixing the issue than just buying a replacement 1610-92 circuit breaker.

Good Luck and let us know what you find and to ask any further questions !!!

[lzongker]

Thanks for the info. I will check with the previous owner and ask him if he had any problems with the awning and also if he installed the thermal fuse which is rated at 6 amps. I am tempted to replace it with a 15 amp because all the other fuses are 15 amp.

[JRTJH]

It's your trailer (not mine) so any final decision would have to be yours, but here's my take:

I'd check the wire attached to the fuse block at that location. IF it's the same size gauge wire as the wires attached to the 15 amp fuse connections, I'd suspect that the trailer wiring is safe to install a larger fuse. I'd pull a 15 amp fuse from one of the other circuits, put it in that slot and push the awning button to see what happens. It'll either work, blow that 15 amp fuse or start smoking (very unlikely). As I said, I don't have to pay the repair bill if it goes south, but if the wire on the fuse terminal is the same, I'd install a 15 amp fuse in what is "probably a 15 amp circuit".....

[steve james]

I know this sounds crazy but if you hold the out button for to long the awning will retract and roll its self back in, if you have done that just reverse it and it should extend back out. the other issue could be like what happened to me, the motor in the head of the awning ran but the connection from the motor to the awning stripped. you can hear the motor running but the awning wont move.

[JRTJH]

Going along with what Steve just posted, look at your "rolled up awning"....

If the awning fabric rolls from the trailer OVER the awning roller tube, it's correct.

If the awning fabric rolls from the trailer UNDER the awning roller tube, someone extended it too far and it continued past the stop and is "rolled up backwards. That will account for the slow to almost non-existant ability to extend or retract the awning. Coupled with a 6 amp fuse, it's not going to work.

Please check your awning fabric and let us know which way it rolls onto the tube from the trailer sidewall.....

[markdol1]

You can bypass the switch and unplug the awning connector at the end of the roller tube and apply a + and - 12 volt supply to the red + and black - wire and the roller should move either way if it doesnt move but you hear noise its the motor mechanism. if you hear nothing work your way back to the switch then to the fuse and breaker box. Also keystone does print model specific manuals ,I will look at mine tomorrow to see if i can help.

[lzongker]

I checked, the awning is rolled up backward. How do I correct this?

[lzongker]

Thanks for all your help. I now know what the problem is (the awning was over extended and rolled up backward) and how it was caused, now I need to know how to fix it. Any suggestions will be appreciated.

[Northofu1]

Thanks for all your help. I now know what the problem is (the awning was over extended and rolled up backward) and how it was caused, now I need to know how to fix it. Any suggestions will be appreciated.

Try the retract button

[lzongker]

I have and that is when the red LED light comes on.

[Bostongone]

Good news on the awning being rolled up backwards (sort of). Explains that someone accidentally rolled it up backwards and then by trying to extend it caused the circuit breaker to pop due to the backwards roll up. Need to replace circuit breaker with new or a 15 amp fuse and then press “retract”. This should unwind the fabric and I believe that if you just continue to press retract the awning should fully extend and then start to properly rewind (in the correct roll up direction).

[JRTJH]

Bostongone's response, replace the fuse with a 15 amp and then, with the awning rolled up next to the trailer, press the retract button and the awning should "unroll to the extended position". Continue to hold the switch and the awning will continue "unrolling" until it reaches the limit and "rolls up properly". That "USUALLY" is all it takes. If that doesn't work, then you'll need to fully extend the awning until it's at "maximum deployment" then remove power, uncouple the motor and manually roll the awning tube to the correct position (fabric over the roller tube and partially rolled up) then replace the motor and connections.

Hopefully you can "re-roll it" without manually removing the motor. Keep us posted.

[Northofu1]

http://www.keystoneforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=23695
I hope this helps shed some light?

[lzongker]

Bad news, I put in a new 15amp fuse and it blows immediately when I push the extract switch. Guess I will have to disconnect the motor and do a manual rewind.

[foldbak]

I had this problem. It turned out that the control board in the motor had gotten wet. Luckily it was under warranty. Have you confirmed that the breaker is faulty? The motor could be faulty and drawing too much current. I wouldn't upgrade the size of the breaker. You might melt wires.

[JRTJH]

I'd first inspect the motor for wear, damage or obvious problems. While the motor is out of the tube, you'll have an excellent opportunity to correct the "backwards rolled awning fabric"... With the motor out of the awning roller tube, you can easily connect it to a battery and function check it to make sure it's operational. If not, better to "melt the wires on the motor" than "melt the wires in the trailer walls.... I wouldn't suggest installing a larger fuse until you KNOW FOR SURE where the problem really lies........

[steve james]

Before you pull the motor out, try the manual drive option. looking at the trailer on the right side , the head of the awning there is a small rubber cap located on top of the plastic cover. remove the cap and underneath you will see a 1/2 inch or so bolt head. use a drill with the right size socket ( or you'll be there all day) and try to extend your awning manually, first left, then right ( loose / tighten ). this turns the awning motor without the use of your trailer. I think once you get the awning out a foot or so you should be able to use your toggle switch to finish rolling your awning out correctly . good luck and I hope this works for you

[steve james]

Oh and im with JRTJH do not add a larger fuse, find out what the problem is first. a bigger hammer just does more damage .

[shermris]

Does one fuse blink red when trying to open the awning?

It sounds crazy, but try to "retract" the awning. If that extends the awning, then it got retracted in the wrong direction.

Just checking
I did this once when my trailer was quite new. Pushed the button to extend and nothing happened. I had closed it the night before in the dark and likely retracted the awning using the extend button. When I tried the retract button the awning started to extend.

[lzongker]

Thanks for all the suggestions. I am travelling right now and won't be home for a few days. Once I get home, I can try the options that have been suggested. I need more tools and a stepladder. Keep tuned and I will post the results in a few days.

[ctbruce]

I dont remember seeing it and it's been mentioned several times. Push the retract side instead of the extend side of the switch and see what happens, just for $_its and giggles. You never know.

[German Shepherd Guy]

:popcorn:

:eek: I had no idea!


This is such a great forum, I don't know how anyone could own a newer, all power TT without a support group. I watched last weekend as I put my awning out and noticed that it would go beyond fully extended but I stopped and didn't experiment to see how far beyond........



Now I know, and can tell DW about it so she will not get into trouble with it either. :facepalm:


Never had to even think about that possibility with the old TT and the hand crank.


Thanks guys. I got to believe lzongker (OP) will be able to easily fix it now once he gets home and has proper tools.
Oak

[KSH]

My wife just did this on our last trip. I noticed it looked wrong and figured she extended it too far and then rolled it back up. I used the retract to extend it. Luckily everything worked ok. I pointed out the buttons and labeling... hopefully I won't have the issue again.

[lzongker]

Next chapter, I got home and got out my drill and found where the manual bolt was to unwind my awning. I ran it out a little ways and then checked to see if the retract switch would work. It didn't, blew the fuse. Then I tried the extend switch and it worked, but because the awning was rolled the wrong way, it actually retracted it instead. I had to use my drill and extend it all the way out and then roll it up with the awning rolled on top instead of the bottom. Currently my awning is retracted and rolled in the correct way. The extend switch works to extend but the retract switch blows fuse. Before pushing the retract switch, I run the awning out a little with the extend switch. The motor seems to be working. Any explanation why the pushing the retract switch causes the fuse to blow. I hope I explained the problem correctly.

[Old Mustanger]

Sounds like a shorted wire or bad switch.

[JRTJH]

Sounds like a shorted wire or bad switch.

Sure does. There are three wires on the motor, a +12VDC, a -12VDC and ground. The motor works in both directions by reversing the 12VDC voltage at the wall mounted switch.

Either the switch has failed and is shorting to ground in the Extend position or the wire connected to that switch has broken and is making a ground connection (blowing the fuse is the result) when that side of the switch is pushed.

The "broken wire" (if that's the problem) is likely to be in the awning arm articulations where the wire flexes or in the roller tube/arm connection where the wire twists a little bit every time the awning tube rolls up. With rolling it up backwards, I'd check that area carefully for a broken wire (actually, worn insulation on the wire that allows it to short to ground)....

Which wire? The one connected to the EXEND side of the awning switch is where I'd start.

[lzongker]

I checked the motor and I only have two wires to the motor. I used a 12v battery to connect directly to the motor. The motor worked fine. I also reversed the wires and the motor ran backward. I believe the motor is okay. I also believe the wires to the motor are okay because when I push the extend switch the awning extends. When I push the retract switch i hear a snap and the red light comes on. I pulled the switch and checked for a short but it checked okay. I am beginning to believe it is the wire from the retract switch to the fuse box which has the short and since it is all inside the panelling in the trailer, I cannot trace it out. I seem to have run out of options for me to check, so will take it somewhere for the experts to solve.

[lzongker]

I should relabel this post because after I manually rolled up the awning in the proper direction, it is the retracting of the awning that doesn't work. It will extend but blows fuse on pushing the retract switch. I have noted this in my previous posts but wanted to clarify it with this post.

[KSH]

Find out where that snapping sound is coming from.

[Bostongone]

Sounds like one of the motor leads is shorted to ground somewhere. A previous poster suggested checking any flex point in the wires going to the motor along the awning frame. I assume that you checked the good forward/reverse of the motor directly at the motor connector. With the motor disconnected and the two wires removed from the reversing switch you should be able to measure a short to ground on one of the power leads with a ohmmeter or use a 12V test light to the individual wires?

[lzongker]

My assumption is that since the motor runs when the extend switch is pushed the two wires in the awning arms are not shorted anywhere. It must be the other wire which is connected to the retract side of the switch which must be shorted somewhere because that is the side (retract) which blows the fuse when pushed. I don't have a wiring diagram of the system so am just guessing that this wire goes to the fuse box.

[Bostongone]

One of the two wires going to the motor could be and probably is shorted to ground somewhere because in the direction that it works that wire is going to ground both at the switch AND at the short point so it is grounded anyway. But when you reverse that connection the lead with the short now has 12V applied to it and the fuse blows.

[Bostongone]

As I mentioned previously the two wires going to the motor must be disconnected at both ends and then checked for the short to ground.

[CampNBrew2]

Since its 12vdc, the motor is reversed by the switch reversing 12v + and 12v - to the leads of the motor. So the wire that is grounded (shorted to ground via a pinch, cut, etc) will work on retract since the motor is seeing/using that polarity to work in that direction- ie that wire is used as the ground in that direction. Once the voltage is reversed by the switch, now the grounded wire is fed 12v + and it blows the fuse. Try removing the wires from the switch and metering the wires to ground. The motor should only ground through the switch. If one lead is grounded this is your shorted wire.
Sorry if this is unclear. It didn't come out of my fingers like I see it in my head LOL

Edit: I see Bostongone said this same thing above. I left the window open too long and didnt see it.

[ctbruce]

Run a jumper wire from the switch to the motor and see if it works. If it does, then it is that wire.

Fixed the title.

[lzongker]

I appreciate all the advice and suggestions and I did learn alot about my awning. I know there is a short in a wire somewhere but it is beyond my pay grade to find it. I have checked the wires in the awning arm and can't find any bare wire which may be the cause of the short. I have decided to take it to an expert who has fixed these problems before and let him find the short. Hopefully, at $95/hour, it won't take him too long.

[FlyingAroundRV]

Just one more test before you go to the techs.
With the wires disconnected from the motor, does it still pop the breaker/fuse when you press Retract on the switch?
Not sure what that will tell you, other than there's a short, but it might give wiser heads here another clue for where to look.

[Bostongone]

Did you get an opportunity to check the two motor leads (isolated from the motor and switch) to at least verify the short to ground? May save some repair time @$95 per hour if you can point the service tech to the probable cause and let him figure how to route a new wire if it is the cause.

[lzongker]

I did not confirm which wire was shorted but it has to be the ground wire that is used for the extend side of the switch. To me the big question is "where is the short" I talked to the tech and he seemed to have a pretty good idea as to where to look. At this point, I am just frustrated and tired of dealing with the problem, so, am turning it over to a technician who has dealt with this kind of problem before. I received lots of good advice and really appreciate the responses on this forum.

[Bostongone]

Well, good luck then in working with the tech! Hope the problem gets resolved to your satisfaction quickly and relatively cheaply. Post us on the final resolution.

[chuckster57]

Late to respond, check the motor wires at the awning arm. May be pinched, seen it a few times.

[JRTJH]

The two wires from the battery/converter "TO" the switch have to be good and operational. They provide +12VDC/-12VDC to the switch. It's the switch (not the wiring) that reverses polarity to the awning motor. So, if ONE side of the switch is operational, the wiring from the battery/converter TO the switch has to be operational.

The problem is in the EXTEND side wiring that causes the fuse to "blow" when that side of the switch makes contact with the +/- 12VDC coming into the switch. Pressing the switch to RETRACT doesn't cause the fuse to blow, then pressing the switch to EXTEND can't cause the switch to blow (from a wiring fault between the source (battery) and the switch. THAT WIRING IS INTACT and good.

The problem is in the EXTEND wiring from the switch to the motor.

It can't be the motor since it works in the retract mode and the ONLY difference in retract and extend is which polarity is applied to the motor contacts.
+12VDC --MOTOR-- -12VDC (ground) = retract
-12VDC (ground)--MOTOR-- +12VDC = extend

The problem is in the wiring or wiring connections from the switch, through the trailer sidewall, up the awning folding arms, through the roller tube to the motor contacts. SOMEWHERE in those components/locations the wire is pinched, crimped, insulation cracked/scraped and the wire is making contact with the trailer/awning frame, grounding the + side of the wiring to ground.

[lzongker]

The tech found the short on the inside wall of the trailer where the wires enter the awning arm. He said it looked like a manufacturing defect where the insulation was missing from the wire and somehow had gotten shorted out with the movement of the awning or maybe a bump in the road caused the wire to jiggle. Who knows. Anyway, it cost me $95 to get it fixed. Again thanks for all your helpful suggestions.

[KeithInUpstateNY]

Glad to hear it is resolved, and thank you for the update.