Towing with water in fresh tank?

[Badtriangle]

Hello all:
Quick question regarding towing with water in the fresh tank. Is it recommended? We just picked up our bullet 257RSS and the dealership put 2/3 tank of fresh water in it. It towed ok but wanted to see if there was a difference with no water in it. Drained it and while “feeling” lighter, it also felt more bouncy. So that made me wonder if they put it there for a reason other than just to demo sinks/water pump stuff. Do some people put water in there to settle it down?
Also, I tow with a 2012 Silverado 2500HD. I pull about 2200-2500 RPMs doing about 62-65 mph. Does that sound appropriate?

[Ken / Claudia]

Of all the rvs I towed or carried, I have never felt any difference with fresh tank full or empty. Even towing with holding tanks full or near full. Most of the time I tow with fresh full since I need water to dry camp.
I did a test with a truck camper I drove across Oregon with all tanks empty, filled fresh near camp site. Drove home with all tanks nearly full and the mpg was not noted to be much difference. Less than 1 mpg as I recall. Truck handled the same.
A couple years ago I went changed out trailer D tires at 65 psi to E tires at 80 psi. Some have said that made towing feel more sable. I did not find any difference towing on that change either. I compared 2 trips PDX to Boise and back. IE same roads same speed.
Maybe different TVs and RV combos will react with change.

[bobbecky]

We always tow with a full or near full fresh tank. You never know when you might be stuck in the middle of nowhere overnight while traveling, and a full fresh tank sure makes the experience much better, when everything else has turned less than ideal. Another discussion had a comment that having the tank full instead of maybe at 1/4 full would keep water from sloshing back and forth which would actually protect the tank from being damaged from the water weight slamming around. We've never had a problem running with the tank full, and being at the very rear of our rig, it might take a little weight off the hitch.

[busterbrown]

We always have our Bullet's FWT about 3/4 full during outbound travels. It's quicker to top off the tank when we get to the campground and we know we'll have potable water to use when enroute.

We had our fresh water tank usually full when traveling and camping on BLM in the southwest for nearly 4 weeks. Only thing I could have wished for is a bigger tank.

[CaptnJohn]

I fill the 60 gallon tank before every trip. Tank sits close to front of the 5er so adds to pw.

[linux3]

Our pantry cabinet and largest storage is behind the axles. What with food and shoes and games and such the balance of our TT shifts. I fill the tank 1/2 full as it's in the front and adds a little tongue weight.
I think it helps with sway.
I could be wrong but I feel better about it so it is better.

[Badtriangle]

Thanks for the input. My FWT is near the front and I think having some water in it would help with sway. When towing with it empty, it was also a windy day and perhaps it was just the wind pushing but it did seem overall less solid when towing.

[66joej]

Hello all:
Also, I tow with a 2012 Silverado 2500HD. I pull about 2200-2500 RPMs doing about 62-65 mph. Does that sound appropriate?

Gas or Diesel? Normal for a gasser. Seems high for a diesel.
Axle ratios have a bearing on rpms also.

[Badtriangle]

Thanks! It’s gas. I wish I had a diesel but...

[rhagfo]

Hello all:
Quick question regarding towing with water in the fresh tank. Is it recommended? We just picked up our bullet 257RSS and the dealership put 2/3 tank of fresh water in it. It towed ok but wanted to see if there was a difference with no water in it. Drained it and while “feeling” lighter, it also felt more bouncy. So that made me wonder if they put it there for a reason other than just to demo sinks/water pump stuff. Do some people put water in there to settle it down?
Also, I tow with a 2012 Silverado 2500HD. I pull about 2200-2500 RPMs doing about 62-65 mph. Does that sound appropriate?

Well your RPM sounds a little high for towing on flat ground with a TT with a GVWR of 7,300#. On flat ground with 3.73's in our 2016 Ram I am turning between 1,500 to 1,800 rpm at those speeds, sounds like you are locking out overdrives.

[travelin texans]

Put tranny in D with tow/haul engaged set the cruise control then see what happens with rpms. Both my GMCs with 3.73 rearends, they were diesels, would run 1600-1800 rpms cruising at about 68, that seemed to be the sweet spot on both. If you not using tow/haul & locking out overdrive you're trying to outsmart the computer. Don't know about you but I'm barely "smarter than 5th grader", so let truck do as it was designed.

[sourdough]

Hello all:
Quick question regarding towing with water in the fresh tank. Is it recommended? We just picked up our bullet 257RSS and the dealership put 2/3 tank of fresh water in it. It towed ok but wanted to see if there was a difference with no water in it. Drained it and while “feeling” lighter, it also felt more bouncy. So that made me wonder if they put it there for a reason other than just to demo sinks/water pump stuff. Do some people put water in there to settle it down?
Also, I tow with a 2012 Silverado 2500HD. I pull about 2200-2500 RPMs doing about 62-65 mph. Does that sound appropriate?



Your experience with your truck is almost exactly what I get. My truck is a Ram HD with 6.4 gas and 3.73. I run at about 65 mph and turn right at 2400 rpm with truck in tow/haul.

[Badbart56]

Gassers have to turn higher RPM's because they don't have the torque that diesels make. They have to rely on horsepower which is produced at higher rev's, thus the lower fuel mileage. I'm curious to see what the new 2020 Ford 7.3 gasser makes. It's touted as a low RPM, high torque engine capable of higher fuel mileage than the current gas V-8's. Rumor has it at 482 hp and 557 lb-ft of torque but I haven't seen that verified anywhere yet.

[Badtriangle]

Put tranny in D with tow/haul engaged set the cruise control then see what happens with rpms. Both my GMCs with 3.73 rearends, they were diesels, would run 1600-1800 rpms cruising at about 68, that seemed to be the sweet spot on both. If you not using tow/haul & locking out overdrive you're trying to outsmart the computer. Don't know about you but I'm barely "smarter than 5th grader", so let truck do as it was designed.
So I will expose my ignorance here and just ask some follow ups.
I have a 4.10 rear end. I’ve never used the tow/haul except in parking lots. I was always afraid to use it at high speeds as it seemed like the engine generated so high RPMs. So should I be using it?
I’ve never even thought of using the cruise either.
I was under the impression that I wasn’t supposed to go much faster than 55-60 on RV tires. Is that not true?
Perhaps I have been inadvertently trying to outsmart the computer.
I tend to watch my RPMs and tranny temp when driving to dictate my speed. My tranny never gets more than 160-165.
Sorry for my ignorance and thanks for any help for this dummy.

[ChuckS]

Towing in tow haul is paramount to longer transmission life. The shift points are different ... that’s why there is a tow haul mode. Tow Haul engaged when towing. If you want your transmission to be happy

[travelin texans]

With the 4:10 gears you will run higher rpms with likely less fuel mileage.
The tow/haul should be engaged anytime you hook up to tow any type of trailer, that's what it was designed for as it changes shift points + with the tap of the brake pedal will downshift when going down steep grades, each tap will drop a gear. Let the truck do the work while you steer.

[sourdough]

So I will expose my ignorance here and just ask some follow ups.
I have a 4.10 rear end. I’ve never used the tow/haul except in parking lots. I was always afraid to use it at high speeds as it seemed like the engine generated so high RPMs. So should I be using it?
I’ve never even thought of using the cruise either.
I was under the impression that I wasn’t supposed to go much faster than 55-60 on RV tires. Is that not true?
Perhaps I have been inadvertently trying to outsmart the computer.
I tend to watch my RPMs and tranny temp when driving to dictate my speed. My tranny never gets more than 160-165.
Sorry for my ignorance and thanks for any help for this dummy.


Always use tow/haul when you have your trailer on the truck. Not doing so does all of the things listed above but paramount to me is it will save your tranny. Back in the early 90s my daughter got married and moved to S TX. Enlisted the old man to load the U Haul and carry her/their stuff from W TX to S TX. I did not use tow/haul. Made 2 round trips pulling the largest U Haul trailer they had. Shortly thereafter the tranny started slipping. It had to be replaced - under warranty thankfully at about 35,500 miles. All the time I was pulling the trailer the tranny was constantly dropping in and out of OD and downshifting depending on the terrain. I literally burned it up with those 2 trips.

4.10 rear end is beneficial for towing IMO. RPM will run a little higher but that's OK - you're not going to be going 100mph. Mileage will be a little lower but in my experience not even enough to worry about.

Trailer tires are rated at 65mph generally; some newer ones are rated with higher speeds but for me, 65 is about max to be safe towing a trailer of any size.

As far as watching RPMs to dictate speed; I wouldn't worry about it unless you're trying to blow the rods out the side. Look at the redline on your tach - that is the max rpm you can run and be "safe". Continuous operation at that level will definitely shorten you engine life. I try to maintain a general constant rpm of around 2400 rpm which is 65mph. Significant grades will cause it to drop a gear and spin up to about 3500 for a while but not long. Those are OK. When traveling normal highways I look at my temps maybe twice a day. Tough terrain (mountainous) maybe every 2 hrs. or so.

[Badtriangle]

Always use tow/haul when you have your trailer on the truck. Not doing so does all of the things listed above but paramount to me is it will save your tranny. Back in the early 90s my daughter got married and moved to S TX. Enlisted the old man to load the U Haul and carry her/their stuff from W TX to S TX. I did not use tow/haul. Made 2 round trips pulling the largest U Haul trailer they had. Shortly thereafter the tranny started slipping. It had to be replaced - under warranty thankfully at about 35,500 miles. All the time I was pulling the trailer the tranny was constantly dropping in and out of OD and downshifting depending on the terrain. I literally burned it up with those 2 trips.

4.10 rear end is beneficial for towing IMO. RPM will run a little higher but that's OK - you're not going to be going 100mph. Mileage will be a little lower but in my experience not even enough to worry about.

Trailer tires are rated at 65mph generally; some newer ones are rated with higher speeds but for me, 65 is about max to be safe towing a trailer of any size.

As far as watching RPMs to dictate speed; I wouldn't worry about it unless you're trying to blow the rods out the side. Look at the redline on your tach - that is the max rpm you can run and be "safe". Continuous operation at that level will definitely shorten you engine life. I try to maintain a general constant rpm of around 2400 rpm which is 65mph. Significant grades will cause it to drop a gear and spin up to about 3500 for a while but not long. Those are OK. When traveling normal highways I look at my temps maybe twice a day. Tough terrain (mountainous) maybe every 2 hrs. or so.

This is all helpful information! Thanks. No one has ever taught me any of this and therefore I end up learning on the fly or from people like you all. I tend to be more of a worrier when i tow out of fear I am going to hurt something in my rig. I will begin using tow/haul and see how it does. I honestly don’t tow more than 300 miles total per year so hopefully I’ve not done any significant damage. The tranny doesn’t slip or anything so there’s that.
Thanks and if there any more tips send them my way. I’ll use any of them I can get.

[River Duck]

So how does one know where the fresh tank is located under the trailer? Where the drain valve is?

[sourdough]

That will pretty much tell you since it will be over it.

[River Duck]

That’s what I thought. After I posted I thought that was a pretty dumb question. When I think about it though I have a good location on mine. Towards the back of the fifth wheel. Keeps the weight off of the pin

[corsavair1965]

Hello all:
Quick question regarding towing with water in the fresh tank. Is it recommended? We just picked up our bullet 257RSS and the dealership put 2/3 tank of fresh water in it. It towed ok but wanted to see if there was a difference with no water in it. Drained it and while “feeling” lighter, it also felt more bouncy. So that made me wonder if they put it there for a reason other than just to demo sinks/water pump stuff. Do some people put water in there to settle it down?
Also, I tow with a 2012 Silverado 2500HD. I pull about 2200-2500 RPMs doing about 62-65 mph. Does that sound appropriate?
I have a keystone sprinter 37 foot TT pulled with Ram 2500 Diesel and normally run around 65 gallons in my 50 Gallon Fresh water tank. To me TT seems to ride a little better with extra weight on Tow vehicle. Dealer suggested to run at least 3/4 full when towing and normally that is the case. How ever, on a recent trip home through Alabama and near Mississippi line my Tank fell out and tore out the plasticore and insulation a drug on the interstate until I could get on to the shoulder. Emergency road call cost me nearly $400 for temporary repair and after getting home another $1500. Good old Keystone was contacted since TT is just 19 month old with very few trips under its belt. Guess what I was told by Zane at Keystone? "YOU OVER FILLED YOUR TANK AND NOT COVERED BY MANUFACTURES WARRANTY". Just for information purposes the Fresh water tank cradle is only held up with 5 TEK screws which stripped the tapped holes. TEK distributor told me that these should have held but if the Dummy installing over torqued them it may have pulled the threads out and that would have possibly been the cause. Roadside emergency had to drill stripped holes for bolts and nuts to reattach the tank and cradle. In addition I had metal safety straps installed for good keeping. I will still put water in the tank as before but at least I know it should now hold and still provide a better tow of my TT.

[corsavair1965]

I have a keystone sprinter 37 foot TT pulled with Ram 2500 Diesel and normally run around 65 gallons in my 50 Gallon Fresh water tank. To me TT seems to ride a little better with extra weight on Tow vehicle. Dealer suggested to run at least 3/4 full when towing and normally that is the case. How ever, on a recent trip home through Alabama and near Mississippi line my Tank fell out and tore out the plasticore and insulation a drug on the interstate until I could get on to the shoulder. Emergency road call cost me nearly $400 for temporary repair and after getting home another $1500. Good old Keystone was contacted since TT is just 19 month old with very few trips under its belt. Guess what I was told by Zane at Keystone? "YOU OVER FILLED YOUR TANK AND NOT COVERED BY MANUFACTURES WARRANTY". Just for information purposes the Fresh water tank cradle is only held up with 5 TEK screws which stripped the tapped holes. TEK distributor told me that these should have held but if the Dummy installing over torqued them it may have pulled the threads out and that would have possibly been the cause. Roadside emergency had to drill stripped holes for bolts and nuts to reattach the tank and cradle. In addition I had metal safety straps installed for good keeping. I will still put water in the tank as before but at least I know it should now hold and still provide a better tow of my TT.
Sorry I have an 80 Gallon tank not 50. My Typo

[CaptnJohn]

They put the tank in with an overflow. How can it be overfilled?

[corsavair1965]

They put the tank in with an overflow. How can it be overfilled?
I have 80 GL tank and carry roughly 65 to 70 GL in it when traveling. Keystone said it was overfilled and that is why it fell out. Just an excuse to not deal with my problem that cost me nearly $1900. Just thought I would post this as what happened in my case.

[KJJ]

Almost always tow my Passport 238ML with a full FW tank, located toward the front. Have a Blue Ox hitch so have never had a sway problem either way, even with full gray and black tanks which are located near the rear.

[sourdough]

I have 80 GL tank and carry roughly 65 to 70 GL in it when traveling. Keystone said it was overfilled and that is why it fell out. Just an excuse to not deal with my problem that cost me nearly $1900. Just thought I would post this as what happened in my case.


I am very sympathetic for your problem - just endured something similar myself, but, I believe your trailer is a 2017 so I'm not sure how Keystone is responsible past their 12 mo. warranty.

But, I will say this; to me one should be able to fill a fresh water tank and take off. Many do, many don't. The "draw" of an RV to many is to be able to take off will full tanks and stay "out there" and enjoy nature. From experience I know how fun that is.

On the other hand....if you've ever worked on a newer RV you know that at least 20%, probably 35-40%, of screws are stripped because the "pros" putting the thing together just hit the screw gun, impact, jack hammer...whatever, until they get tired of hearing it spin. I assume that that's the way they know the fastener is in and tight....the driver never stops spinning. :nonono:

Due to that I've never carried more than a 1/3 in my fresh water tank unless at a dry site and filled close by. I have no confidence whatsoever that whatever was used to support it will actually hold it unless I pull the coroplast and check all the fasteners. For me, it's not worth the effort. Especially after just having my galley gray tank replaced because during construction they left a bunch of screws etc. on the top of the tank, pushed it up against the floor, secured it and then sent it down the road. The screws wore holes thru the top of the tank - how are you going to check that? .....it never ends.

[Yankee Clipper]

Pulling my 2015 Sprinter 33RLS with a 2010 2500HD Duramax. Crossed the scales in KS at 22,325 lbs. 70 mph at 1750 RPM, at 7.5-9.2 mpg. Added air bags to control the bounce. This trailer has all of the weight forward and need 85 psi in the bags. Couldn't balance weight on the r trailer tires if your life depended on it. Great floor plan for living but stupid for loading evenly. A little more info than you asked for.

[WJQ]

I have a 2018 Cougar 24SABWE. This unit has the FW tank ahead of the axel. When I took delivery, my Ram 1500, 5.7 using the 12,000 lb Equalizer hitch seem perfectly level. Had minimal water in the FW tank and no grey & black water.

After adding gear, clothing, tools, etc, the truck-trailer are not as level as they were initially. I generally tow with minimal water as I reach a 3000 ft grade about 10 miles from my house. I get my water at the camping spots I use (Forest Service sites). Towing stability seems fine but I keep wondering if I should re-adjust the equalizer hitch or possibly install air bags.

Looking for your thoughts.

[larryflew]

As we aged we currently we do not do any boondocking so we only have enough water in the tank for emergency flushes. With the Alpine 5th wheel and 3500 GMC Duramax I could not feel any difference with or without full tank.

Previously we had a lightweight 28 foot Forest River Freedom lightweight pulled by a Hemi Pathfinder. Full tank did ride better with less bouncing but the Pathfinder was pretty much maxed out and didn't like the hills around AZ and NV with full tank so we started traveling with an empty and did much better on pulling power and mileage.

Possibly with a more appropriate powered vehicle we might have kept using full tank.

[sourdough]

I have a 2018 Cougar 24SABWE. This unit has the FW tank ahead of the axel. When I took delivery, my Ram 1500, 5.7 using the 12,000 lb Equalizer hitch seem perfectly level. Had minimal water in the FW tank and no grey & black water.

After adding gear, clothing, tools, etc, the truck-trailer are not as level as they were initially. I generally tow with minimal water as I reach a 3000 ft grade about 10 miles from my house. I get my water at the camping spots I use (Forest Service sites). Towing stability seems fine but I keep wondering if I should re-adjust the equalizer hitch or possibly install air bags.

Looking for your thoughts.


Load the trailer then adjust the wdh. When adjusting it to the empty weight it isn't adjusted properly hence not being level.

[CWtheMan]

Reading this thread I’m a bit surprised at the number of people carrying lots on water of any kind. As full timers we never had the luxury of being able to carry much more than 15 gallons of water. That includes what’s in the water heater and black tank. A total of 25 gallons or more could cause us to exceed our GAWR safety margin. The scaled weights for our 6000# axles were always right at 2750# - 2850# at the heaviest axle end. To keep it in that range we carried about 8 gallons of fresh water plus 6 gallons in the hot water tank and a 10# bag of ice cubes in the black tank after every 5th dump.

Keep in mind that we have always been spoiled full timers and have never boondocked, dry camped or used someone’s parking lot. Our lowest utility usage requirement is at least 30 amps and water. Those with water & elect must have an available dump station. We just don’t travel heavy and dump all tanks prior to every move.

[lcarver02]

Hello all:
Quick question regarding towing with water in the fresh tank. Is it recommended? We just picked up our bullet 257RSS and the dealership put 2/3 tank of fresh water in it. It towed ok but wanted to see if there was a difference with no water in it. Drained it and while “feeling” lighter, it also felt more bouncy. So that made me wonder if they put it there for a reason other than just to demo sinks/water pump stuff. Do some people put water in there to settle it down?
Also, I tow with a 2012 Silverado 2500HD. I pull about 2200-2500 RPMs doing about 62-65 mph. Does that sound appropriate?
Congratulations. It isn't necessary to put water in the fresh tank when you begin your trip unless you are not sure you can get it where you are going. Added weight = waisted fuel. Sounds like you have more than enough truck to tow this trailer. There have been a few times I wish I would have filled the tank (going to a Forest Campground). Most of them have water, or you can get it somewhere before you hit the mountains. Your RPM's sound normal for flat land low altitude. Most engines like 2000 to 2200 when towing (gas engine). If you don't have stabilizer bars, it might help to have some water weight up front. Some folks cancel OD when towing, it is a good idea.

[theboneskes]

I too am surprised how many tow with fresh water in their tanks... We always get water when we pull into a campgroud, and dump our tanks on the way out if we only have electric hookup, if full hook up, obviously we dont have any water of any type once we pull out of our camping spot. With all the gas stations out there(IE Pilot, Flying J, TA, etc) and waysides, why would you tow with water? Just ads extra weight(8 pounds per gallon), and if you want filtered water, hook up your filter at the campground. I am just confused how many people tow with water...

[LHaven]

Guess what I was told by Zane at Keystone? "YOU OVER FILLED YOUR TANK AND NOT COVERED BY MANUFACTURES WARRANTY".

If 80 gallons is too much water to carry in the tank, why do they provide an 80-gallon tank???

On the other hand, maybe that explains why my tank came loaded with construction sawdust and styrofoam detritus --it was to prevent me from overfilling it with actual water.

[ChuckS]

When towing to RV park I carry about a 1/3 tank of fresh water in case we need to stop for Mother Nature call in between roadside stops, etc. have done this for over 35 years.

When boon docking I leave with full tank of fresh water. There is none where we go. Makes absolutely zero difference in mpg with my Duramax diesel.

Tows the same with it without water in 2014 Alpine

[CWtheMan]

Remember, all of the water in any tanks provided by the RV manufacturer as original equipment is cargo and it's onboard weight must always be a consideration when preparing for trips.

The reference below is a typical RV trailer cargo label. In 2010 it became mandatory for that type of label to be displayed in all new trailers.

http://www.keystoneforums.com/forums/picture.php?albumid=1074&pictureid=6512

[Badtriangle]

Just a quick update on several of the issues in this thread:
Took a trip this weekend and used everyone’s advice from here.
Towed with a full FWT and it seemed to settle the TT and it rode a bit better IMO. Used the Tow/haul function and OMG how have not used that before? It was amazing. The engine and tranny seemed happier. Seemed like I had better fuel mileage. Actually was able to set the cruise and “relax” a little on the drive.

[66joej]

Up in this part of the country (lots of mountains) we use tow/haul with cruise control quite often when not pulling a trailer. Cleaner better shifts. YMMV