leveling and tires

[brodiegg]

I have a Cougar half ton res 27. have been towing for a year. questions. does anyone like the autolevel??? I hate it. go to state parks in Colorado and they are not level, so the auto level does not work. have gone to the manual mode and use the auto level to just stabilize coach, cut the time to minutes to level the coach. cannot believe this cost so much. Plus while I was driving my TV tire pressure went from 80 psi cold to 90 psi hot.. I have read set it cold and ignore the hot because the engineers at the tire companies have this calculated the increase in. so for those who tow a lot, what is your opinion, lower the cold or ignore the high????.

[Logan X]

You should set the psi to the cold rating. The tires will heat up when you are towing and the pressure will rise.

[chuckster57]

Autolevel is the bomb once you know the limitations. I don’t have it but I work with it every day.

Which system do you have? Hydraulic or electric?

Electric seems to have a little less “reach” ( travel) than the hydraulic. If you know one side or the other or the front or back is too low, just put blocks under the jacks. If it lifts the tires off the ground, your still ok.

Is your unit a fifth wheel or TT and which system do you have?

[Jseitz]

Chuck is it ok if the tires are off the ground? Doesn't that put a lot of stress on the suspension? I always try to get the Cougar 29bhs close to level with leveling blocks under tires before I use the auto leveling. Am I wasting my time doing this? Thank you

[chuckster57]

Your not wasting your time, and yes it’s ok to have wheels off the ground. We use the autolevel all the time when we do an axle service. We have left BIG fifth wheels on the jacks for a few days.

Only thing is, the further the jacks are extended, the less “stable” it is, but your still ok.

[Canonman]

To answer the op's two questions. I absolutely love the auto level. We mostly camp in Forest Service CG's, State Parks and National parks as well as boondock fairly often. Here's our process. I have a level installed on the drivers side of the front storage that I can see in my side mirror. As I back or pull into our spot I notice which side is low. I position a "Tri Leveler" on that low side and either back or pull onto the leveler until I see the side to side level fairly even. A that point I go through the auto level process per the printed instructions. If I notice one leveler jack or the other is higher than others prior to leveling, I'll put a couple of "Lego Blocks" under the higher jacks to minimize the travel required to level the Cougar. Then push the auto level and it's all done. Personally I like having all wheels on the ground just to keep as many points of contact as possible to help stabilize the coach. Total time to unhook and level is usually under 15 minutes.
As for tire pressures. Go by the manufacturer's recommendations and fill to the max PSI Cold. Yes, the manufacturers have taken into account the pressure increase due to the tires heating up during travel. Also, I believe tires are good to like 170 degrees before it's a problem.

[travelin texans]

Would never own another RV without the auto level!!
If you're still having trouble leveling the system it may need calibrated.
You will need blocks of some type to go under the low side jacks to keep from them running out of stroke. I had a 14-16" square piece of 3/4 treated plywood for under each jack along with 2 sets of Lynx Levelers, put the wood along with a couple Levelers under each jack with more on the low side every time to keep from extending more than necessary. If it raised the wheels off the ground that was fine if only staying short term (30 days or less), if long term (all winter) I'd put blocks under the wheels.
Always air tires to cold max & don't sweat the hot pressures or temps unless one is extremely different from the others.

[Snoking]

We sat all winter(6-7 months) in Arizona twice with our 5th will the drivers side tires off the ground with the Lippert 6 point Level Up system. It was much faster than any electric system. Took a bit to learn how to operate it.

[notanlines]

Brodie, I agree with everything said so far. Tires set cold and leave 'em unless there's a big difference and then you have to find out why. And like Danny said, no more RV's for us without the auto-level.

[RWRiley]

If the tire thing really bugs you, you could get a Nitrogen fill. Not sure how much it costs, but in theory Nitro will keep the tire pressure the same in any temperature.

But , I'm with the others - set them cold and don't worry about it.

[ChuckS]

Set your tires at cold inflation psi stamped of tire. Set your TPMS hi temp and hi pressure alarm as recommended by the TPMS manual.

Tire pressure will rise at least 10 psi within 10 minutes of tow time and the tires getting sun will always read higher than shade side.

The one thing I don’t like about having a tire lifted off ground for very long with leveling system is the chances of excessive lateral loads being applied to the levelers on side that is off the ground.

Yes... the six point system is rated at 14K on each front leg and 10K on mid and rear legs ... but this is “dead weight” ... not something moving around.

I have six point hyd system and use it to lift tires off ground for bearing maintenance , etc but I have not, in 6 years of use boon docking or at RV park ever had auto level lift tires off ground to level.

[larryflew]

3 of 7 years in AZ park we winter in had tires off the ground for 3 month each time. Also happened to be a year that Lippert service had a factory guy come and replace a few of our leaking hydraulic lifts and told us it would not be an issue. Have since taken a different site in the same park.

[Roscommon48]

Would never be without the auto leveler. And yes, some times it is a pain when you are not level Good suggestion, find a level site. I don't believe that every site you go to is that unlevel.


and as for doing it manually, it still is easier than the 'old fashion' way!



For the person who added 'wheels off the ground?', yes of course you can do that.

[77cruiser]

Last year we were at a park, I didn't realize how unlevel the spot was, when auto level did it's thing, on one side the tires were 6" off the ground.

[lonewolftx]

I’ve found many state park pads are so old they are way out of level. The lippert hydro system can’t level the 5th wheel w/o blocks on the low side. Meaning the range of the pistons can’t go out far enough to extend the rig to level. I’ve needed 2 or even 3 2”x12”x 15” wood block pads to bring the low side within level range. Just another thought.

[jeff csillag]

I have a Montana High Country 5th wheel 370br. It weighs about 14,500 and it has the ground control 3.0 6 point electric levelers. It will not lift any tires off the ground. As for leveling I back into my space and check level at the tires (side to side). I use a 4 foot level and added blocks on the ground to back onto to level the trailer (side to side). Chock tires and disconnect. Then hit auto level and it works well for leveling the front to rear. Of course you might need to a blocks under the jacks depending on site level ness.

[Daryles]

Ditto what Canonman said.
I also use TPMS. I have read many stories about China bombs.

[Johnnyfry]

Nitrogen follows the same gas law as air does and will increase pressure as it heats up. PV=NRT Also bear in mind that air is 78% notrogen.

[foldbak]

Auto level 3.0 is the bomb once you get the hang of it. The site should be level enough that the wheels don't come off the ground. If they do its usually only one side. Easy fix, set auto level assuming it has enough stroke. If it does put the auto level in manual mode and raise that side another inch or two. Place blocks under the wheels that are off the ground and lower it until the tires are on the blocks. It's not good to let your suspension hang. It's not designed to. Just fill your tires to the recommend PSI cold and your good.

[Farside]

Over Inflate....Under Inflate? Try going from the high altitude of the Colorado mountains to the low shores of southern Texas, and back again. I watch those tire pressures religiously now and make sure to have them set up correctly in the morning before I leave a site. Had a blow out in Amarillo while travelling south with China bombs, and it only had to happen once to teach me a lesson. Watch those temps and tire pressure. Your tire pressure can expand and contract up to 10 pounds going from one to the other.

[Tireman9]

From an actual tire engineer. Inflate to the stated pressure "cold" i.e. not warmed by being in sun or driven on in prior 2 hours.


Re Nitrogen, It workds like MAGIC Not (http://www.rvtiresafety.net/2011/04/inflate-with-nitrogen-and-there-will-be.html)

[larryflew]

Did the nitrogen thing on our truck tires about 5 years ago. Pressure still did the heat dance the same as it had with just air but cheaper without paying for the nitrogen fill. Due for new tires this year and will be air only although after 5 years of adding air there isn't any extra nitrogen in the current tires anyway.

[Lariatbob]

Push a button and unload the truck. Done.
Think about it. No matter if on suspension or leveling jacks the full weight is always supported by the frame.
Either the frame is held off the ground by the suspension (springs, axles, tires) or the jacks.
The jacks are designed to support the load. More stable and stronger than the suspension components.
I see so many using jacks and blocks to raise the tires off the ground when in storage. What's the difference?
If your auto level ends up raising one or more tire off the ground it is actually helping by removing some load from the suspension. I am sure you have seen older trailers where the springs have relaxed and it sets crooked. I have never seen a frame distort except if it is completely rusted out and trash anyway.
I don't lose any sleep over it.

[Bamabox]

Autolevel is the bomb once you know the limitations. I don’t have it but I work with it every day.

Which system do you have? Hydraulic or electric?

Electric seems to have a little less “reach” ( travel) than the hydraulic. If you know one side or the other or the front or back is too low, just put blocks under the jacks. If it lifts the tires off the ground, your still ok.

Is your unit a fifth wheel or TT and which system do you have?

Ok, clear something up for me. Have a 2017 XLite 21RBS. Does not have auto level, don’t think it was available on that model. I was always under the impression that leveling the trailer was NEVER to be done with the outrigger jacks. It would bend the frame. Leveling was to be done with the wheels and the tongue jack, then jacks deployed with just small amount of pressure for stability. So do the trailers with autolevel have a much sturdier frame designed for the task? And my frame is not capable of that?

[chuckster57]

In your case yes you want to level using pads under the tires for side to side and tongue jack for front to back. We are not a keystone dealer so I can’t say I’ve inspected a TT that doesn’t have auto level with the same model that does.

[CampNBrew2]

So do the trailers with autolevel have a much sturdier frame designed for the task? And my frame is not capable of that?

Bama,
This is what I'm thinking as well, but would like to hear an answer from a trusted source. The rigs with these level systems must be designed for that much load on the frames. I think our lightweights would just twist and bow. When setting up (before setting the jacks), I can see the tongue and frame flex a bit when someone enters the trailer and walks around.

[travelin texans]

Bama,
This is what I'm thinking as well, but would like to hear an answer from a trusted source. The rigs with these level systems must be designed for that much load on the frames. I think our lightweights would just twist and bow. When setting up (before setting the jacks), I can see the tongue and frame flex a bit when someone enters the trailer and walks around.

It's not the frames are any different, but rather the hydraulic/electric leveling jacks are much sturdier/stronger than the stabilizers, or outriggers as you called them. The leveling systems jacks were designed to lift the rvs where stabilizers are, as the name implies, are to only stabilize once level.
If the frames were designed specifically for level up systems then they wouldn't be able to sell/install those systems aftermarket, they'd have be a special order from the factory, which they aren't & they do install aftermarket.