New Generator Install [Archive] - Keystone RV Forums

MunizTravels

07-13-2019, 05:33 AM

Hello Keystone Alpine Family.

Earlier this year i took on the endeavor of installing 4x 200 watt solar panels a Victron Multiplus 3000 and 4 Battle Born Batteries. you can find the post on this forum. While that was all great I'm in Florida and with batteries you can only get about 2 1/2 hrs of A/C before you need to charge again. If you want to stay in a rest area over night you risk losing your inverter generator.

SO I'm taking on the task of installing a built in Onan 5500 EVAP in the front compartment. I have a Alpine 3401RS does anyone have pictures of one installed already and where did you put the gas tank? Do you guys have any warnings for me that i should know?

Thanks in advance
Armando
2018 Alpine 3401RS
2019 F350 King Ranch Dually

chuckster57

07-13-2019, 05:58 AM

Why gas powered? They make a 5500W that runs on LP. Just need to T off one of the propane cylinders.

Did your unit come with “gen prep”? If not then there are things you will need to get besides the gen.

MunizTravels

07-13-2019, 06:06 AM

I didn't want to use up the propane which is used for the water heater and furnace. No it did not come with generator prep, so i'm going to pull the under belly and find a spot for a custom gas tank.

Armando

chuckster57

07-13-2019, 06:15 AM

If you find a spot, you will need to route the feed and return line. And figure out a way to fill the tank. You’ll need a transfer switch and if your looking to have remote start you’ll need to run that harness. I would seriously think about LP and a spare tank as it would be cheaper.

travelin texans

07-13-2019, 08:20 AM

X2 on the LP.

MunizTravels

07-14-2019, 05:46 AM

I'll tell you guys why I think LP would not work for me. My RV is sitting at U-Haul in Pompano Beach, FL. I purchased a new adjustable bed so I went down to install the bed and mattress yesterday. It's realllly hot down here right now, so I used my Champion dual fuel with a 20 lbs propane tank. within a few hours the tank was almost empty yes i was only running the air conditioner in the Bed room and a few lights.

The reason for the Generator is to be able to self sustain ourselves as we boondock around the country we have been selling everything in our house, my Job is fully remote now. we are planning to leave in the winter this year for atleast 2 years and after reading post from many users on this forum i realize boondocking is a reality and a must. I would love to be fully prepared to be out for 4 to 5 days on our own.

I hired a professional installer that has done many 5th wheel retrofits to help me. I will do most of the work and he has the guy that can make a custom tank for me.

I feel very fortunate to be able to learn from the RV community before ever leaving on the first trip. We were ready to leave last January 2018 and my mother in-law got sick and my wife had to come down to Florida to take care of her while I stayed in Tennessee packed and sold the house. Since then her father passed away and we no longer have anything keeping us here.

Full time RV-ing is soon to be a reality and I'm just trying to be comfortable and prepared.

chuckster57

07-14-2019, 06:15 AM

I totally understand your reasons for not wanting to run the gen on LP but the ones We have installed and I have seen from the factory don't run out in a few hours. I live by the KISS principle and practicality. IMO your going to spend a LOT of money to do it the way you want and it would buy a whole lot of propane.

MunizTravels

07-14-2019, 06:28 AM

Chuck,

I already have a Onan 5500 gas Generator sitting in my living room. But I'm curious to know how long you can run your Generator on 2 LP tanks. Assuming your 5th wheel came with 2 40 lbs tanks? I attached a pic of the generator and accessories.

chuckster57

07-14-2019, 06:47 AM

I don't have an onboard gen. I work as an RV tech and have installed a number of them. IIRC a customer has stated that his will run for something like 6 hrs at full load on a single 30Lb bottle.

lt_cowboy

07-14-2019, 09:46 AM

Here's my Onan 5500 LP... Although I'm not crazy about placement of the exhaust, it's awesome. 2279822799

cookinwitdiesel

07-14-2019, 12:20 PM

The dual fuel engines are designed to run badly in either mode pretty much. They are compromised designs that sounds cute but are not practical or efficient. Ethanol/gas have the same problem. Either one in a dedicated engine can do well but the hybrids are compromised and suck. So comparing your Champion to the Onan on consumption is not a fair comparison.

AND, if your truck is a Diesel, you now have 3 different fuels to maintain! If you plan to do any amount of boondocking beyond the occasional day here and there, solar/batteries/inverters will be a must as well. Unless you really like listening to that generator and refilling it!

MunizTravels

07-14-2019, 07:16 PM

How long does the LP last at full load?

cookinwitdiesel

07-14-2019, 07:33 PM

The generator will be less efficient at 100% load (although the link seems to suggest otherwise). Will you be running at 5500W constantly ever?

https://powersuite.cummins.com/PS5/PS5Content/SiteContent/en/Binary_Asset/pdf/Consumer/specsheets/a-1425.pdf

n0arp

07-14-2019, 08:57 PM

travelin texans

07-14-2019, 09:12 PM

The couple times we've boondocked with our Onan 5500 and used LP, we got right around 24 hours out of the two cylinders between refills. So roughly 12 hours per tank. We had a third tank and kept filling/swapping it out with the empties.

I bought everything to convert mine from LP to gas, including carb, fuel tank, pump, lines, etc, but decided in the end I'd rather have LP. I'm not interested in storing another flammable fuel in the RV, having to worry about ethanol, bad fuel, etc. The motivation to look into that is that I didn't have a safe way to transport additional propane cylinders - and I still don't really have a great solution to that.

Which brings a good point, once out of gasoline the only refill option is to break camp & tow to a gas station as opposed to disconnecting the bottle & getting it filled.
Those that are mentioning run times per bottle it would be helpful to list size of the propane tank you're using. If running 12 hours on a 20lber then should get 24+ hours from a 40lber & somewhere between for a 30.
The dual fuel generators are like the newer flex fuel vehicle motors, yes they'll run just fine on E85, 10% ethanol, but optimum mileage/performance will be with 100% gasoline.

n0arp

07-14-2019, 09:57 PM

Those that are mentioning run times per bottle it would be helpful to list size of the propane tank you're using. If running 12 hours on a 20lber then should get 24+ hours from a 40lber & somewhere between for a 30.

All Alpines, as far as I know, come with 30lb cylinders. Op and I both have Alpines so I left out that information.

Speaking of fueling, I'd love to swap out my LP for a diesel model so I could just pull fuel from my aux tank in the truck. Not going to happen, though.

MunizTravels

07-15-2019, 05:18 AM

Thank you guys for all the answers.

I'll give you some more background. I already have solar installed 4 x 200 watt solar panels. 4 x 100ah Battle Born Batteries, Victron Multiplus 12/3000/120 and MPPT controller. I just found from AM Solar something calls a Smart Phase selector which will allow me to use my hole power panel instead of splitting it in half that i will be installing with the Gen set. I have a guy coming out in the next 2 days that makes extended fuel tanks for trucks and we are going to take out the underbelly of the RV and see if there is a spot we can use for a gas tank with a fill nozzle like a car.

If that doesn't work i will try to replace the parts for LP on the generator. 30 lbs LP 12 hours not bad but i was looking a week. not running it for the whole day of course.

cookinwitdiesel

07-15-2019, 05:26 AM

I doubt you would be able to carry enough gasoline to run for a week anyways.....and if you could, that would be very heavy!

Nice solar setup!

Racebug

07-15-2019, 05:26 AM

I was pretty impressed that my onan could run 48 hours on less than 30 gallons of gas. I don't remember the real numbers, but I think I could run close to a week on the 60 gallons my toy hauler has onboard. I would not be happy if I had to replace a 30pound LP bottle every 12 hours!

n0arp

07-15-2019, 06:15 AM

I would not be happy if I had to replace a 30pound LP bottle every 12 hours!

I agree, it's a PITA. But my concern has moved from changing fuel type, to just finding a safe way to carry more LP.

chuckster57

07-15-2019, 06:44 AM

Check federal laws regarding the fuel tank. To my knowledge, it CANNOT be “sealed” under the coroplast. It must be open to the air.

MunizTravels

07-16-2019, 06:52 AM

Does anyone have any recommendations in Fort Lauderdale / Pompano area for someone to help me with the install of the Generator my guy has seems to disappeared.

Man RV repair guys are so unreliable!

chuckster57

07-16-2019, 07:04 AM

RV repair guys are so unreliable

What? Not all of us. You might want to rethink that statement.

JRTJH

07-16-2019, 07:44 AM

...
Man RV repair guys are so unreliable!

...
What? Not all of us. You might want to rethink that statement.

Yeah... There are thousands of "RV repair guys" at work today, solving owner issues, listening to people "gripe about other repair guys" and helping keep RV's on the road and working properly.

Mongoose9400

07-16-2019, 08:58 AM

AbHDToyHauler

07-16-2019, 09:11 AM

1 gallon of propane = 4.2 lbs.

20 lb bottle = 4.7 gallons
30 lb bottle = 7.1 gallons
40 lb bottle = 9.5 gallons

Onan 5500:
No Load = 0.3-0.4 gallon/hour
Half Load = 0.6-0.8 gallon/hour
Full Load = 0.9-1.1 gallon/hour

With our gasoline generator I plan on burning 1 gallon of gasoline for every hour of runtime because of two 15k a/c's running.

Genertaor

Also mine has a 30 gal aux tank that you can fill and pump from aux tank into the generator tank as needed so you have much higher capacity. At least with Jerry cans you can go get fuel at any station without waiting on someone to fill your propane bottles. To each their own though.

chuckster57

07-16-2019, 09:50 AM

A toy hauler is designed with fuel tank(s) and a pump. An alpine isn’t, OP wants to install a fuel tank to run a gen.

ChuckS

07-16-2019, 10:14 AM

Not much room left under neath Alpine colorplast for any fuel tank. Propane would be the only way

MunizTravels

07-17-2019, 06:12 AM

First if I insulted any reputable RV repair men out there it was not my intention. My personal experience has not been very good. I work in a data center on servers when a customer calls with problems we can't just say oh well we have to fix it. which only have the weekends to get things done. So I hired someone to do my solar install he never showed up on day one then called 3 days later said he couldn't do it.

Then I hired a person to fix my fantastic air not opening or coming on he said the wires were running through the ceiling and he couldn't fix that without tearing the ceiling down. My wife and I tested each wire found that all but one had power must be the electronic board. Ordered a MaxxAir wireless fan which only needs power problem solved. So i told this repair guy since your at the RV I'm putting in a King bed can you cut the wood at these measurements even with a helper my wife had to hold the wood because the helper was sitting in the truck in the A/C LMAO

Now I'm at the Generator install, I wanted a LP generator because tanks are already there but the installer that was doing the install with me said no way gas is better we have a guy that can build us a custom tank somewhere under the Alpine. So I ordered a gas Generator which is in my living room right now. Well after he didn't return my calls on Saturday or Monday I called Palm Beach RV who recommended this guy to recommend someone else and the installer finally calls but he says that he was looking under another Alpine and there's no place for a fuel tank we need to put the tank in the basement behind the wall where all the electronics are and that will be fine. 20 gallon tank.

I'm angry to say the least and to top it all off Norwall says its not worth the money to send back and exchange for LP.

Any advice would be really appreciated because I'm disgusted at this point.

notanlines

07-17-2019, 06:39 AM

Go on with the gas install and stick with 2 portable standard boat fuel tanks. Alot less grief.

chuckster57

07-17-2019, 06:44 AM

Wow you have been burnt by some lousy people.

Not worth the money to exchange gens?? Sounds fishy to me. If they are that adamant, sell it and buy the LP gen.

chuckster57

07-17-2019, 06:46 AM

Go on with the gas install and stick with 2 portable standard boat fuel tanks. Alot less grief.

I wouldn’t ever use/ store gasoline in an enclosed area. Your asking for a free trip to Mars.

Racebug

07-17-2019, 07:04 AM

I would think you could upgrade your gen to an LP fuel. I imagine the only difference is it has a gas injector in the intake runner. I have switched a good handful of cars/trucks to run on natural gas successfully, not much different.

AbHDToyHauler

07-17-2019, 07:19 AM

Go on with the gas install and stick with 2 portable standard boat fuel tanks. Alot less grief.

That's a pretty good idea , I think? Chuckster is right and I don't know what's under an Alpine. I only know my toyhauler so thought there might be room under the trailer. Could you go with notanlines idea and add a small fuel tank in the box of truck (like they do for diesel) so you could easily pickup more fuel and refill your portable tanks?

MunizTravels

07-17-2019, 03:22 PM

Hi Guy's

It's taken all day of going back and forth with Norwall where i bought the Generator they were great by the way. I'm sending it back it's too hard to convert to LP. It cost me $300 to ship back and I'm happy it's over. Now for the rest of the story I ordered another one LP only to a RV dealership in Fort Pierce, FL. They will be installing it starting Wednesday, permitting it arrives in time.

The dealership is aware of all the issues i've had with the installation and having to return the gas one and I believe they are giving me a good price considering they have to move my Inverter, MPPT controller and the batteries over to fit the Generator.

Questions: I really don't want to complicate things but I'm installing the remote start in the RV for the Generator and was wondering if the InCommand can also be hooked up and should I? I see they have something on the panel for Generators just wondering that way i can start the Gen set 30 min before we arrive at our next destination from the truck while driving to cool off the RV?

Armando

cookinwitdiesel

07-17-2019, 04:12 PM

I think the 7000w model is same size and nearly same weight, maybe a better option?

fjr vfr

07-17-2019, 05:12 PM

Are you planning to follow the hot weather everywhere? Just asking.
Most of the full timers I meet, (we're half timers :lol:) travel around to the sweat spots and avoid hot and cold weather.
We hardly ever use our ac. When it starts getting hot we move. :)
Just asking. :angel:

chuckster57

07-17-2019, 05:26 PM

We sell units with one control not in command so I don’t know, but all the toy haulers with one control are part of that system. One control is an LCI system with an app too.

I have enough knowledge to say that it can be added to the one control so I bet it can be integrated into the in command system, you just have to know what wires go where and what programming to do.

I hope your install goes a whole lot better than what’s happened so far. Let us know the results.

MunizTravels

07-18-2019, 03:37 AM

Thanks for all your help!

Hopefully in a week or so I should have pictures of the completed installation.

Morkleb

07-18-2019, 08:20 AM

I have Fuzion 385 toyhauler, that came with the 5500 watt Onan evap gas generator factory installed. It has a 30 gal fuel tank. We were out camping, for the weekend and ran the gen from about 6:30 pm thru 10:00 am for two days and did not go under the one third tank mark. ( system has silly 1/3, 2/3, full gages, and not measured in quarters ). The gen was running all lights, fridge, water heater, and two a/c units. I don’t know what the install/fabrication cost to put one in ........ but running off gas was very economical.

The gas tanks are in the rear of the trailer, under the garage area. It is also hooked up to the “In-Command” control center.

notanlines

07-18-2019, 03:09 PM

I didnt say store it enclosed, it would sit on the ground or in the bed of the truck.

77cruiser

07-19-2019, 02:21 PM

How about a diesel, that would give the longest runtime.

chuckster57

07-19-2019, 06:39 PM

How about a diesel, that would give the longest runtime.

The OP originally asked about a gasoline powered gen and fabrication of a custom tank for installation under the trailer. He has since decided to go with the LP powered gen. Diesel powered would represent the same issues as gasoline in so far as where to put the fuel tank.

Virtually all fifth wheels that are NOT toy haulers that have a gen, will be LP powered.

chuckster57

07-19-2019, 06:40 PM

I didnt say store it enclosed, it would sit on the ground or in the bed of the truck.

Sorry I may have replied a bit quick.

rauman84341

07-20-2019, 04:20 PM

I had the Onan 5500 installed on my 2009 Montana 3150 in the front compartment when it was new. I didn't want LP for a couple of reasons, less power, using LP so I went with a gas generator. It works great the gas for the generator is stored in a boat gas tank, the generator has a supply hose that is ducked up in the trailer. When I want to run the generator I hook up the quick connect connection and start the generator.
I put the gas tank in the back of the truck with not in use.

Roscommon48

07-21-2019, 03:47 AM

I never heard of someone relying on solar for their a/c. you learn something everyday.
I am curious on why you even want to install a generator? we 'dry camp' at the key west military base in the winter and just about ALL rv with preinstalled generators.....500 rvs use only their small generator like a honda and NEVER run there large installed in rig generator.

I have a side quesdtion.....are you really dry camping in florida? in the summer? Why else would you want a generator or solar? My opinion, just mine, is just plug in and don't waste your money.