Unable to Locate 12v Disconnect Switch

[The Waits Family]

Greetings all. First time Keystone owner and first time posting. Thanks in advance for your time to reply and help out a fellow rv'er.


Just took ownership of a 2019 Keystone Sprinter Campfire 27FWML. I have not been able to locate a 12v disconnect switch. If there is not one, do you recommend installing one? I realize I could just take the battery cables off but wanted to do it right.


Many thanks and I look forward to contributing in any way I can.

[MarkEHansen]

Welcome to the forum and RV family!

The battery disconnect switch usually looks like this:

https://www.amazon.com/WATERWICH-12-48V-Battery-Disconnect-Vehicle/dp/B07H7ZW4L1/

If installed, it will usually be in the forward pass-through compartment.

Note that if installed, the battery disconnect switch doesn't really disconnect all loads from the battery - some will stay connected, like CO detectors, stand-by power on RV electronics, tongue jacks, etc.

If storing the RV without shore-line power for more than a few days, you really need to disconnect the battery - I take mine home and store it on a battery maintainer, like the Battery Tender - to keep it charged and ready to go.

[travelin texans]

If you add one add it the the main + or - cable so it completely disconnects all 12v power, as mentioned if you have/find the factory disconnect it does not totally disconnect.

[The Waits Family]

Thank you all for the information. I will thoroughly look in the pass through area for the switch. If unable to find one, I will install per "travelin texans" instructions. Good to know that even if there is a factory switch, it does not fully disconnect everything so this might be needed regardless.


Again, thanks!

[GeekSquadOfUn]

...
Note that if installed, the battery disconnect switch doesn't really disconnect all loads from the battery - some will stay connected, like CO detectors, stand-by power on RV electronics, tongue jacks, etc.
Well, on my new 2019 315RLS, it disconnects everything. Which is really what it should do.

I can confirm. Nothing draws power.

[MarkEHansen]

Is that a disconnect switch like I pictured above, and installed by the manufacturer? Does your camper have an RVIA sticker on the side of it?

[GeekSquadOfUn]

New Cougar, installed by Keystone and yes I have the sticker. It is stock.

[MarkEHansen]

Then I think that trailer is in violation of RVIA requirements. @JRTJH just posted this information about an hour ago. I don't remember which thread it was. Perhaps he will respond to this one too?

[LHaven]

For periods when I would want to disconnect the battery completely, I would also want to take it in the garage and leave it on a trickle charger, so I never bothered with a total shutoff switch (and have no use at all for the shutoff switch that comes with the RV).

[MarkEHansen]

Here is the post: http://www.keystoneforums.com/forums/showpost.php?p=348832&postcount=20 FYI

[MarkEHansen]

For periods when I would want to disconnect the battery completely, I would also want to take it in the garage and leave it on a trickle charger, so I never bothered with a total shutoff switch (and have no use at all for the shutoff switch that comes with the RV).

Do you really use a trickle charger? Or are you just using that term to refer to a battery maintainer? A trickle charger can easily over charge a battery, as it doesn't stop when the battery is fully charged. I've always been told trickle chargers are bad.

[LHaven]

Naw, it's just what I call it. Actually, it's a pretty sophisticated unit (https://www.pulsetech.net/xc100-p-xtreme-charge-12v-battery-maintenance-charger-desulfator.html) that does everything from gel cells to car batteries. Not like the Harbor Freight wall-wart that I keep in my horse trailer. :)

[MarkEHansen]

Naw, it's just what I call it. Actually, it's a pretty sophisticated unit (https://www.pulsetech.net/xc100-p-xtreme-charge-12v-battery-maintenance-charger-desulfator.html) that does everything from gel cells to car batteries. Not like the Harbor Freight wall-wart that I keep in my horse trailer. :)

I see. By using the term, you may convince those that don't know the difference that they actually want a trickle charger :)

[JRTJH]

Here is the original RVIA statement/announcement about the certification requirement for CO monitors in ALL RV's. It's dated October, 2004, so it's been around for 15+ years. The example they give in the news release, about a camper owner running a generator and asphyxiating people sleeping in the adjacent trailer who were not using a generator is a prime example of why the RVIA requirement for a WORKING CO monitor in all inhabited RV's (without regard to the battery cutoff switch disabling the device) is so important.

The news release:

RVIA: CO Detectors Required on all RVs (10/25/2004)

Story by Sherman Goldberg


All RVs carrying the Recreation Vehicle Industry Association's (RVIA) seal will be required to have carbon monoxide (CO) detectors installed effective Jan. 1.

The RVIA board determined at its meeting Sept. 26 at the St. Regis Hotel, Aspen., Colo., that the matter was so important that it took the unusual step of circumventing the traditional manner in which standards are established to issue the regulation.

Usually regulations are reviewed by the Standards Steering Committee and subjected to scrutiny within the industry before they go into effect.

"There have been a few cases where people using generators were hosing CO into a neighbor's RV who didn't have a detector," said Bruce Hopkins, vice president of standards and education. "The board thought the best way to deal with that was to require all RVs to have CO detectors. It was a safety issue that needed to be addressed right now."

Previously, CO detectors were required in motorhomes, truck campers and towables that had generators or were prepped for generators to be installed.

Hopkins estimated that 150,000 and 175,000 towables currently are sold without CO detectors installed.
https://www.rvbusiness.com/blog/rvia-co-detectors-required-on-all-rvs.html

[LHaven]

I certainly understand the position as stated. However, it seems to me to be a bit of a reach to interpret that as requiring bypasses for DC shutoff switches. One would not normally expect people to be inhabiting an RV with the shutoff switch turned to off, any more than one would expect people to be inhabiting that same RV with no battery, and the second set of people would have the same problem.

[JRTJH]

I certainly understand the position as stated. However, it seems to me to be a bit of a reach to interpret that as requiring bypasses for DC shutoff switches. One would not normally expect people to be inhabiting an RV with the shutoff switch turned to off, any more than one would expect people to be inhabiting that same RV with no battery, and the second set of people would have the same problem.

All I can tell you "with certainty" is that Keystone, historically, has always wired the OEM battery bypass switch to maintain power to the trailer remote control, awning, slide rooms, landing gear, tongue jack, radio, LPG detector and CO monitor (if it is a hardwire model).

I won't get into the "it seems" or "should" or "what if" or "ought to" scenario, just the "what I've seen in every one I've worked on or inspected.

[MarkEHansen]

I got the impression you were saying that RVIA required the CO detector not be disconnected using the battery disconnect switch but I see no evidence of that in the statement you posted above.

[JRTJH]

I got the impression you were saying that RVIA required the CO detector not be disconnected using the battery disconnect switch but I see no evidence of that in the statement you posted above.

Well "just maybe" the evidence is the requirement to have the CO monitor ??? An inoperable device is the same as NO device and it requires a "working device" (ie: Powered on) to meet the standard.... At least that's the way I interpret the requirement. Of course, I'm not sleeping in or working on your trailer, so my interpretation of how it works and more importantly, "Why it's wired the way it is" doesn't matter in a "long distance discussion"....

Sort of like seat belts in cars: They are "required to be installed" (and intended to be used) BUT: if you don't put them on, their purpose is nullified.

[MarkEHansen]

Actually, for seat belts there is a law which says they must be worn. I agree that it's a good idea to have the CO detector powered and operational. It just doesn't look like RVIA is requiring that it bypass the battery disconnect switch. That's the only part of the issue I was trying to determine.

[JRTJH]

Actually, for seat belts there is a law which says they must be worn. I agree that it's a good idea to have the CO detector powered and operational. It just doesn't look like RVIA is requiring that it bypass the battery disconnect switch. That's the only part of the issue I was trying to determine.

You're "conflagurating" two seat belt requirements.

FEDERAL requirements mandate that automobile manufacturers install seat belts. There is no FEDERAL law that states you must wear seat belts. EXCEPT on federal property where state laws can not be enforced....

STATE law requires seat belt use and each state has slightly different requirements (just as motorcycle helmets vary from state to state).

The discussion in this thread (I thought) centered around the question, "Does the battery cutoff switch disconnect the entire 12 volt power system?" The answer, at least in my experience is, "No, the OEM battery cutoff switch does not disconnect the "entire" 12 volt power system." Effectively, if you turn the BCO switch to OFF and store your trailer, the battery will discharge, usually within 4 or 5 days.

I attempted to provide some background on "WHY" the BCO switch is wired that way. If you wish to agree or if you choose to not agree with my reasoning, then that's perfectly OK. Hopefully, those who don't have a good grasp of RV logic and understand their RV systems will gain some insight into how and why things work like they do. Sometimes the background on how things evolve to what we current have is complex, sometimes not. We may not all see the evolution the same way, but the fact remains, Turn off the BCO switch and your battery will still be dead when you go back to your trailer in a week or so.

[MarkEHansen]

Again, I wasn't trying to argue whether or not the CO will still have power (or whether it should, etc.). Only that it wasn't a requirement from RVIA that it be excluded from the BCO switch. This is (I think) my third attempt to clarify that, so I'll stop at this point.

[GHen]

I would agree with a couple posts above, RV manufacturers seem to be required to install battery disconnect switch’s that do NOT turn everything off. There are a lot of people that travel with factory disconnect shutting off most of the power while traveling and then pulling over and sleeping/napping and then traveling again, thus the need to keep the CO/smoke detectors powered.

A 100% disconnect switch may need to be installed by the owner for storage to get around the regulations. The factory disconnect will allow draining the batteries to the point of damaging them in a couple weeks or less.

[JRTJH]

I would agree with a couple posts above, RV manufacturers seem to be required to install battery disconnect switch’s that do NOT turn everything off. There are a lot of people that travel with factory disconnect shutting off most of the power while traveling and then pulling over and sleeping/napping and then traveling again, thus the need to keep the CO/smoke detectors powered.
A 100% disconnect switch may need to be installed by the owner for storage to get around the regulations. The factory disconnect will allow draining the batteries to the point of damaging them in a couple weeks or less.

In that example, if the BCO switch disabled the entire trailer, there would be no emergency braking if the trailer separated from the tow vehicle, yet another reason why the OEM BCO switch is wired the way it is.

[GHen]

In that example, if the BCO switch disabled the entire trailer, there would be no emergency braking if the trailer separated from the tow vehicle, yet another reason why the OEM BCO switch is wired the way it is.



Yes, totally correct, a full battery cutoff should only be used for storage.

[LHaven]

There are a lot of people that travel with factory disconnect shutting off most of the power while traveling and then pulling over and sleeping/napping and then traveling again, thus the need to keep the CO/smoke detectors powered.

I realize the fact that I can't imagine someone wanting to do this doesn't mean that there isn't somebody who does it.

As wired, what the battery disconnect switch DOES kill are the lights, the (toilet) water pump, the propane fridge, the skylight fans... pretty much every basic comfort one would need to have a better-than-caveman overnight experience from an RV. (Except for the radio, which I consider inexplicable.)

It also doesn't actually disconnect the battery to prevent power drain in storage, which is what most people would naturally expect it to do.

As wired, I just don't understand why it exists. It doesn't do what a repairman needs, and it doesn't do what an owner expects. We all know that if vehicle manufacturers can save a buck per unit, they'll do it; which is why I would genuinely like to understand why Keystone thinks that a "mystery switch" that satisfies practically nobody's requirements was important enough to offer standard. (I'm not ignoring the regulatory issue, which is equally well addressed by omitting the switch entirely.)

(I understand the point about the tongue jack and breakaway switch; however, these aren't vampire loads, because unless you are actively using them, they drain zero power. Bypassing those shouldn't be controversial. In my old rig, which had no disconnect switch, this was taken care of by having multiple independent positive cables stacked on the battery post.)

[sourdough]

As far as a battery disconnect switch being installed in an RV; I have no idea why. I've never disconnected mine for any reason but did have to replace it because it began causing problems when it became defective....from lack of use I guess.

When I did try it out when it was becoming problematic I was like everyone else - some things were cut off and some weren't. My CO/LP detector stayed on all the time along with the light on the front of the stereo and who knows what else. Why? I have no idea. I used my lights to let me know if the switch was working or not.

Are those things required by the RVIA? I assume so because they all (RVs) seem to come that way. RVIA says they follow the established NFPA/ANSI codes. I have spent 2 days trying to "get" the RVIA codes - ain't gonna happen that I can find unless I want to pay for a book; and you may have to be a dealer to do that, I didn't go that far. NFPA/ANSI codes for RVs are almost as elusive. As for myself, a full battery disconnect from the primary battery cable makes the presence of a factory "battery disconnect" immaterial. I only use it if the trailer is in storage, and even then very seldom. I would never think to disconnect the battery when traveling for the reasons mentioned above.

For some light reading enjoyment, and further edification in the event we didn't know all of this stuff, here is a link to some NFPA standards for RVs that might prove to be interesting...or extremely boring.:lol: It took me 2 days to stumble onto this, the only thing I could find that didn't require a membership or credit card...

https://files.meetup.com/14200282/NFPA%201192-15-PDF.pdf

[GHen]

I agree, the factory disconnect is worthless. I never use mine. I can understand requirements to shut off propane fuel/flames at fuel stations, tunnels or for an accident. If I really stretch my mind, I could see the same for disconnecting the electrical, maybe...I certainly see no benefit to shutting off half the power , maybe to limit sparks when the rv disintegrates in an accident.

It’s a waste of the manufacturer money except to fulfill some poorly designed government regulation.
I guess I better read more of above and other discussions to see the errors in my comments, but I fear I’ll be wasting more of my time.

The only repair ever needed for my 5th wheel was a warranty covered RECALL that the switch was wired incorrectly, dah, of course it is! It was wired to allow the LED lights to operate when the switch was in disconnect mode. I wasted 3 hours of my time and 40 miles of fuel to take care of a mandatory recall dealer drop off for repairs.

I need to go fishing or have drink, happy camping everyone! [emoji3]

[chuckster57]

My 2012 Copper Canyon doesn’t have a disconnect.

[Jseverence]

I would think it would be a safety issue for the propane gas detector not to be functioning at all times.

[LHaven]

I would think it would be a safety issue for the propane gas detector not to be functioning at all times.

It's not functioning when the battery has been removed in storage.
It's not functioning when the battery hasn't been removed in storage, but the propane detector has drained the battery by continuing to operate.
So what's the problem with it not functioning when the 12V cutoff switch is enabled? This switch is not meant to be enabled during actual use of the rig.
You may want to review all of the previous posts in the thread.

[Jseverence]

I did read the past posts. In my opinion it is left operational to catch any possible LP leaks. So hopefully it would alarm someone before enter the trailer. Yes it would drain the battery down and becomes self defeating as the alarm will stop working. Its a catch 22 situation.
PS when I store my unit for a long period of time, I disconnect the hoses to the Propane bottles and remove the battery. For the short term I top off the battery weekly with my generator.

[Hamops]

I installed a battery disconnect switch inside the battery compartment, on the Positive lead to the battery. I always open the switch when the trailer is in storage. It protects the battery from being discharged when the trailer is not being used.

[ldiaz791]

My Keystone Avalanche has it in the forward compartment ahead of the pass through compartment ,a smaller compartment that also stores the battery. And not sure if right or not but even at home with shore power I still leave it on. I figure the shore power would help the battery keep its charge??

[LHaven]

My Keystone Avalanche has it in the forward compartment ahead of the pass through compartment ,a smaller compartment that also stores the battery. And not sure if right or not but even at home with shore power I still leave it on. I figure the shore power would help the battery keep its charge??

Absolutely.

If you're going to leave it on constant charge like that, don't forget to maintain the water level.

[Local150]

I installed a switch so it shuts everything off,, which is the way I wanted it when I store it. I understand why the factory may not be able legally to do that, for liability issue

[Willg1718]

In my 2018 Keystone Cougar 344MKS, the battery disconnect is in the same area as the handles for dumping black and gray water. The disconnect switch only disconnects 12volt power to the inside of the rig. All outside functions like slides, awning, and leveling jacks still function. You need to completely disconnect connections to the battery to disable everything.

[kench]

Greetings all. First time Keystone owner and first time posting. Thanks in advance for your time to reply and help out a fellow rv'er.


Just took ownership of a 2019 Keystone Sprinter Campfire 27FWML. I have not been able to locate a 12v disconnect switch. If there is not one, do you recommend installing one? I realize I could just take the battery cables off but wanted to do it right.


Many thanks and I look forward to contributing in any way I can.
Hi I have seen the battery disconnect switch in with the battery and hydraulic compartment

[apachewolf]

[QUOTE=MarkEHansen;348790]Welcome to the forum and RV family!

The battery disconnect switch usually looks like this:

https://www.amazon.com/WATERWICH-12-48V-Battery-Disconnect-Vehicle/dp/B07H7ZW4L1/

If installed, it will usually be in the forward pass-through compartment.

Note that if installed, the battery disconnect switch doesn't really disconnect all loads from the battery - some will stay connected, like CO detectors, stand-by power on RV electronics, tongue jacks, etc.

If storing the RV without shore-line power for more than a few days, you really need to disconnect the battery - I take mine home and store it on a battery maintainer, like the Battery Tender - to keep it charged and ready to go.[/QUOTE

I beg to differ on this. The disconnect will disconnect everything EXCEPT the electric jack. That is why I reversed the wires so that the NEGATIVE (-) cable goes to the switch. That way ALL power is removed.

Happy Camping.

[apachewolf]

If what JRTJH states is true, than what the heck good is a disconnect switch?? Just wondering. It is a known fact that all the devices named by JRTJH are the ones consuming quite a bit of power and therefore are responsible for the battery being drained. THINK ABOUT IT!!

[WPWilson]

My 2019 Cougar the cutoff switch is located on the driver side in the compartment with the drain controls.

[LHaven]

If what JRTJH states is true, than what the heck good is a disconnect switch?? Just wondering. It is a known fact that all the devices named by JRTJH are the ones consuming quite a bit of power and therefore are responsible for the battery being drained. THINK ABOUT IT!!

Yeah, my takeaway in a nutshell. One wonders why the switch is even provided.

[GeekSquadOfUn]

Yeah, my takeaway in a nutshell. One wonders why the switch is even provided.

Exchanged emails with a Keystone rep and he confirmed that the Disconnect switch lives up to its name on my 2019 Cougar at least, it disconnects everything and is designed for those who store their coach, expecting no power draw from anything. Nothing, nada.

It also did not make any sense to me - that some devices would still draw power while Disconnected...

The iN-Command module has its own CMOS battery (it's essentially an Android Tablet) and it will keep all of its settings too, albeit the clock could be off.

Relieved.

[JRTJH]

Exchanged emails with a Keystone rep and he confirmed that the Disconnect switch lives up to its name on my 2019 Cougar at least, it disconnects everything and is designed for those who store their coach, expecting no power draw from anything. Nothing, nada.

It also did not make any sense to me - that some devices would still draw power while Disconnected...

The iN-Command module has its own CMOS battery (it's essentially an Android Tablet) and it will keep all of its settings too, albeit the clock could be off.

Relieved.

You might want to validate that Keystone rep's confirmation. We have loads and loads of "Keystone validations" and "Keystone confirmations" documented on the forum that were not only "not correct" but many that were "completely out in left field".....

I hope your situation is different from many of the "Keystone comments from reps who have never seen the inside of the trailer they're "expertly advising" owners...... But .......

[travelin texans]

Exchanged emails with a Keystone rep and he confirmed that the Disconnect switch lives up to its name on my 2019 Cougar at least, it disconnects everything and is designed for those who store their coach, expecting no power draw from anything. Nothing, nada.

It also did not make any sense to me - that some devices would still draw power while Disconnected...

The iN-Command module has its own CMOS battery (it's essentially an Android Tablet) and it will keep all of its settings too, albeit the clock could be off.

Relieved.

Don't bet the farm that your rep has a clue about what he told you!!! If want really test him, ask where it's located on your particular model RV!
Everyone I know with a newer model RV the disconnect DOES NOT disconnect ALL 12volt systems and will leave you with a DEAD battery in about a week in storage.

[markjamestx]

On my 2017 bullet Premier, it didn't even have a disconnect switch and when I put it in storage of course the CEO sensors and the sound system would drain the battery in a couple weeks. So I installed one on my own

[GHen]

I agree, the factory disconnects will never cut ALL power. If used it would not allow the brakes to work if the trailer becomes disconnected from the tow vehicle.

[GeekSquadOfUn]

Well in light of these findings, I have installed a real disconnect switch 12" from my batteries on the + side. So now I know all is OFF. I have another connection to my Solar panel to keep them topped up.

Happy now.

[chuckster57]

I agree, the factory disconnects will never cut ALL power. If used it would not allow the brakes to work if the trailer becomes disconnected from the tow vehicle.



Actually the break away switch is wired directly to the battery at the junction box. Disconnect has no effect on that circuit.

[GHen]

Actually the break away switch is wired directly to the battery at the junction box. Disconnect has no effect on that circuit.



I’m sure you right, at least it should be. So, a full disconnect installed by the owner should not include that brake wire and probably should not travel with dead batteries...

[ctbruce]

I’m sure you right, at least it should be. So, a full disconnect installed by the owner should not include that brake wire and probably should not travel with dead batteries...Yep. Correct.

[chuckster57]

If the disconnect is installed on the battery lead, then you’ll have to turn it “on” to include the break away switch. Factory disconnects are installed “down stream” from the junction box so they don’t affect the break away switch as far as I know.

[GeekSquadOfUn]

Gee guys.

I only, only, only use the Full disconnect switch when in storage.

I do not need or want the breakaway switch, propane detector, landing gear to work, or anything else to work

When I arrive to my storage area or use my coach, I switch it ON.

Been doing this for over 10 years.

[travelin texans]

Gee guys.

I only, only, only use the Full disconnect switch when in storage.

I do not need or want the breakaway switch, propane detector, landing gear to work, or anything else to work

When I arrive or use my coach, I switch it ON.

Been doing this for over 10 years.

Then this info was for ALL those on here that did not know about the break away switch & you keep doing it as you have been.

[JRTJH]

Looking at the "logical side of towing", if you have a battery disconnect switch wired to COMPLETLEY disconnect the battery AND you have an electric tongue jack/landing gear, you'll need to turn the switch ON in order to raise the tongue/pin and lower the tongue onto the ball or adjust for fifth wheel plate height. You'd have to "intentionally turn the switch off" after hitching in order to tow with a disconnected battery. Or, I suppose, if you're stubborn and insistent, you could do it "just to prove you can" (but most people don't fit this category).....

If you don't have an electric tongue jack/landing gear, then the above wouldn't "prevent inadvertent towing without battery power.

As Danny said in the previous post, the discussion is not only for the OP, but for anyone who might read this thread and realize, "OH SH**, I'VE BEEN TOWING WITHOUT BRAKE POWER".......

[GHen]

Should clarify, I believe the brakes receive power from the Tow vehicle while towing, no matter how disconnects are set. It’s the break-away system that needs power when the trailer becomes disconnected from the TV while in motion.

[chuckster57]

Should clarify, I believe the brakes receive power from the Tow vehicle while towing, no matter how disconnects are set. It’s the break-away system that needs power when the trailer becomes disconnected from the TV while in motion.



The Blue wire in the 7way umbilical cord does carry the brake signal to the trailer brakes. The brake control sets the voltage sent. It is attached to the blue wire of the trailer that often times changes color before reaching the axles.

The break away is two wires. One is attached to the battery lead in the junction box and the other is attached to the blue wire. When the pin is pulled, full voltage is sent to the magnets.

[Old Mustanger]

Then this info was for ALL those on here that did not know about the break away switch & you keep doing it as you have been.

Well said!

[sourdough]

Then this info was for ALL those on here that did not know about the break away switch & you keep doing it as you have been.


Good on you! We have tons of new members guessing.....!

[Don N.]

The red disconnect switch on my Sprinter is located directly behind the battery in the forward most compartment.