Steering problems with current truck

[Ken / Claudia]

Thought I should share my story, this is a new one I have never heard of or experienced til now. This is not the death wobble.
A few times I noted during or after a 90 degree type turn from 1 road to another from a stop. The truck would pull to side always toward the turn. I entered a freeway ramp and the truck wanted to make a circle not just a turn. I turned the steering wheel opposite direction and when it turned it keep turning that way. It was like steering on ice. Ford shop tried to experience the same but of course did not. They replaced all steerage linkage since all was loose. Ball joints and steering damper were OK.
It has been fine until 2 days ago it did it again. It's parked until Ford gets to it again in 5 days.
I checked though Ford forums and found some having the same issue found the front axle u joints were bad and replacing them that fixed the problem. Apparently when worn they can bind up and release through turns. I hope what ever the real problem is this is the last time it sees a shop for loss of steering. So far I did not go off road or crash. If towing the TT or boat unknown if I could avoid a crash if any vehicles nearby. Truck has 81,000 miles on it, this happened several times in around 4,000 miles.

[sourdough]

Hi Ken,

I haven't had a Ford in several years but I have had a situation like you describe but don't know if it's possible in a Ford.

I rebuilt a Ramcharger at one time and after I modified/lifted it etc. I didn't like how wide the turning radius was. There were "stops" behind the wheels that stopped the linkage from going too far and adjusted too much put the tires into a position where they would actually pull the truck in a sharp circle making it very difficult to straighten out because the tires had turned too far. I had to play with the adjustment of them to get the shortest turn radius I could without going too far and causing it to just "lock" into a sharp turn. Don't know if that's even possible on the Ford but it was a thought.

[FlyingAroundRV]

Hi Ken,

I haven't had a Ford in several years but I have had a situation like you describe but don't know if it's possible in a Ford.

I rebuilt a Ramcharger at one time and after I modified/lifted it etc. I didn't like how wide the turning radius was. There were "stops" behind the wheels that stopped the linkage from going too far and adjusted too much put the tires into a position where they would actually pull the truck in a sharp circle making it very difficult to straighten out because the tires had turned too far. I had to play with the adjustment of them to get the shortest turn radius I could without going too far and causing it to just "lock" into a sharp turn. Don't know if that's even possible on the Ford but it was a thought.
I have seen a video on YT where a guy modified his Ford truck to do just that, to shorten the turn radius.
I was also wondering whether your power steering system might have a fault. The job of the PS system is to put some effort into the steering so that you don't have to. I don't know how the force is regulated, but if it ran amok, I could imagine it doing something like that.
In the old days, all power steering systems were hydraulic. Now there are a lot of electric ones out there. In any case, either type of system could go rogue and cause symptoms that you describe.

[Ken / Claudia]

Good suggestions, thanks guys. I will post what ford comes up with next week. Good news it is rare, bad news it could get me or someone killed. If I was behind my truck in a patrol car when it lost steering, I would have radioed in a stop on a drunk. I hope ford tests and maybe cleans and refills the power steering system, I can see how maybe a valve is getting stuck or plugged. The steering wheel turns fine the wheels just do not follow that movement.

[rhagfo]

Good suggestions, thanks guys. I will post what ford comes up with next week. Good news it is rare, bad news it could get me or someone killed. If I was behind my truck in a patrol car when it lost steering, I would have radioed in a stop on a drunk. I hope ford tests and maybe cleans and refills the power steering system, I can see how maybe a valve is getting stuck or plugged. The steering wheel turns fine the wheels just do not follow that movement.

Ken, Hope they find a cause, I would agree with U-joints, but it is at pretty low mileage.

[Frank G]

Just to clear things up, there is a direct mechanical connection between the steering wheel and the two front wheels. The power steering feature is a power assist system. I would hope one would have the power to override a system failure. In a system failure where the power assist continued to provide power for a turn it may be extremely difficult to manually overcome it. After all we are all used to a steering system that will return to center on it's own.

Good luck on figuring it out.

[FlyingAroundRV]

Just to clear things up, there is a direct mechanical connection between the steering wheel and the two front wheels. The power steering feature is a power assist system. I would hope one would have the power to override a system failure. In a system failure where the power assist continued to provide power for a turn it may be extremely difficult to manually overcome it. After all we are all used to a steering system that will return to center on it's own.

Good luck on figuring it out.
I have never heard directly of a failure in the power steering causing the steering system to go rogue, but if it's mechanical it can fail.
I understand how the hydraulic systems regulate (with a spring loaded control valve) and as an electronics weenie, I can imagine how the electric ones work (with a spring loaded variable resistor) but both controller types could fail in a way that would drive the steering hard lock.
Even more concerning are the new "self parking" type systems where a computer and a host of other sensors are in the loop.
As an electronics technician, I am concerned at the level of automation being introduced and the areas that they are being applied to in automotive use. We have already seen electronic throttles kill people when they fail.

[notanlines]

Scott, you are very correct. Most of us remember the Lee case in Minnesota where Toyota's stuck throttle issued killed many people before Toyota had to pay in excess of two billion dollars to make that issue go away. The auto- electronic control of any vehicle on the highway particularly scares me as a motorcycle rider. I simply could not stand for electronics being in control while I snoozed towing down the interstate.

[Lawrence p]

I had a 1999 ford superduty and it had a bad u joint one time. it would bind and suck you to the ditch that’s the side it was bad on. Then it was fine until you tried to turn again.replaced the u joint all was fine it was seized by the way.

[Logan X]

I’m not sure if this is related or not. On my 2017 4x4 F250, the front axle U joints are the only place that require regular lubrication. I had already researched it and got under the truck to locate the U joints and the zerks. I took my truck into the Ford truck center for an oil change and asked that they lube the U joints.

When I came to pick it up, the service writer told me there was nothing to lube under there and it was all sealed. I told her that was incorrect so she got a more senior mechanic, who was also unaware of this, to look under the truck with me. I went under on a creeper and I was wearing a suit at the time, haha. I showed the mechanic where the zerk was located and he concurred it required grease.

I wonder how many of these trucks are rolling around and those U joints have never been lubed?

[sourdough]

Scott, you are very correct. Most of us remember the Lee case in Minnesota where Toyota's stuck throttle issued killed many people before Toyota had to pay in excess of two billion dollars to make that issue go away. The auto- electronic control of any vehicle on the highway particularly scares me as a motorcycle rider. I simply could not stand for electronics being in control while I snoozed towing down the interstate.


It's probably a little outside the topic but, the Toyota issue was/is real. I bought a 2010 4runner Limited. I was passing thru Hobbs, NM when a yahoo decided to just "jump" out from his side street - it was 4 lane and I was in the inside lane. He pulled completely into the outside lane and I hit the brakes in a panic move then released immediately because he stopped - in the middle of the outside lane. My foot movement was "blip" and gone. The vehicle reaction was "lock it down, squall the tires" and almost break my MILs neck and face on the back of the front seat. I then had the "unintended" acceleration while driving on a highway with traffic. The cruise was on and when encountering a situation it would not let off; brake...no. Pound the brake....no. Kick the handle into neutral....revs got too high (I guess)...disconnect. Called Toyota and reported. Got a $125 check as they reported they cured the problem. I have a 2017 now and have not experienced that issue, but, I can assure you it was real.

[Ken / Claudia]

This afternoon the dealer phoned and said so far the tech took it for a drive and could not duplicate the problem. I told the service manager when leaving in with them. The problem is random and if your trying to duplicate it, it could take several tanks of fuel and you may crash when it happens. I suggested checking parts.
When I purchased the truck I noted some wonderning like you get in rutted roads but only a few times. I figured it needed alignment or a tire low. I checked PSI in all tires, tires almost new highway pattern continentals. When I nearly crashed on the freeway ramp, I had put 2200 miles on it. That's' when ford replaced the steering parts I listed, mileage was at 80266. Than it was great until last week with 81,xxx mileage. That was the next event.

[sourdough]

Ken, one of the greatest problems we face anymore is "techs" trying to actually try to find a problem. Bring it in, quick look = everything OK; seemingly always. Pride, professionalism, knowledge have all gone out the back door.

I don't remember where you are in this as far as who has to pay for what. If you have some sort of warranty I would tell them to pull every front end part and check it against specs. For it to lock like that it's not a small adjustment on a tie rod or something - it's something that when it hits the limit of it's travel then lets it travel a bit more...too far. They need to put a GOOD front end guy on it, not Willie that hired on last week from Big O. Good luck.

[JRTJH]

Reminds me of another thread about a zerk fitting on a new F250 that's currently running. The Ford "technicians" told the owner that there's NO zerk fittings on the new F250's.... He got on a creeper under the truck to point the zerk out for the service guy.... OOPS !!!!!

So, believing what a mechanic tells the service writer who left word with the guy at the counter for you to pick up your keys...... Nope, not on my watch !!!!!

[avalanchehd]

Most steering boxes are of the recirculating ball type, with hydraulic assist. Been a while, but have seen a sticking shuddle valve to cause the steering to turn without wheel input. You said You had a pull to one side, this could be the cause of Your issues.
Have had a few so bad that if you unloaded the suspension and started the engine, the steering would turn on its own.
Hopevthis helps

[Ken / Claudia]

Update, the truck does have a full warranty, the last time they replaced about 1,000 in parts and labor. I have a deductible of 100.
The Ford dealer I took it to this time, had it for 4 days and said come and get it. We cannot duplicate the problem. We cannot just put parts on it and hope they fix the problem.
I phoned the Ford dealer I purchased it at and had them replace the steering parts before. I said I would not drive it again until the problem is fixed. My liability and responsibility is not to drive a truck that loses steering. Although random, anyone have a idea what would happen if I hurt or killed anyone knowing the problem has not been fixed. And what about the dealer.
They have been understanding and picked it up and took it back to their lot, said it will be fixed before allowed to be driven again. They will start on it monday the 15th. I have other vehicles to drive, so that part is covered. The wild card is if they cannot find a fix. I am not driving it again until it's fixed.

[SteMax]

81000 miles is low mileage. I can remember when 70000 miles meant sell it cause it’s worn out.

[fordmd]

This is a daily common cause of this concern, also hard to diagnose. Sounds like you’re on the right path. (I’m a ford technician, btw).

[KeystoneKal]

Is there a possibility that this is related to the 4WD and not the steering?

[PaulRod]

I worked at a courier company where all the managers would be given Ford Expeditions to drive. This is because of the bad New England winters. The managers would have to get the jobs completed no matter what the weather. Well during preventative maintenance I found a weird thing in the steering. The steering wheel was slow or didn't want to return. It was found that the tiny u-joint in the intermediate steering shaft were bound up by road salt and crap. I used to clean them to get a little more life out of them but it was actually easier to change them out with new ones. You must disconnect one end to positively detect a failure.

[Ken / Claudia]

Good information, this truck came from Canada and 5 or 6 winters of road salt. I was wondering if something in the 4x4 was causing it also. I have only turned 4x4 on/off to see dash light come on and rotate the hubs. But, as I said it only loses steering during a turn. The tires continue pulling the truck into the turn and the steering wheel can be spun any way, but to no affect until about a second or more later. Now your going across another lane in different direction. Attempts to turn out of that turn fail until a second or so later. Like a drunk.
Than steering comes back and tracks with the wheels, everytime the steering wheel is at a 90 degree off center but your driving straight. As in you hold 10- 2 position the steering wheel is in 12-6 position. Than I have stopped the truck and spun the steering wheel full right and left and it works normal again.

[retiredusps69]

I would DEMAND they replace the Steering Box and also the Power Steering Pump and do and Alignment!!!! I would also take along a Statement and have them sign off saying there is nothing wrong with it.Both Mech.and Service Manager. I had a different problem one time when it came to putting their signature on something the story changed and they took it back in and solved the problem.Have your Attorney make up a small statement bet your problem gets fixed!!!
As another person posted Fords lower steering shaft will freeze up on the u joint but that makes the wheel hard to return. Thought my wife was nuts till I pulled the shaft out.

[fordmd]

I would DEMAND they replace the Steering Box and also the Power Steering Pump and do and Alignment!!!! I would also take along a Statement and have them sign off saying there is nothing wrong with it.Both Mech.and Service Manager. I had a different problem one time when it came to putting their signature on something the story changed and they took it back in and solved the problem.Have your Attorney make up a small statement bet your problem gets fixed!!!
As another person posted Fords lower steering shaft will freeze up on the u joint but that makes the wheel hard to return. Thought my wife was nuts till I pulled the shaft out.
You don’t have to demand. If you ask to have it done, and pay for it, most shops will do it while noting that it may not have needed it. As far as signing something like you suggest, if your at a shop theft bends their principles to threats, leave. You’re dealing with people who don’t know what they’re doing. In 40 years I have never known another technician or shop manager who wouldn’t have shown you the door. Threats won’t get you car treated better. In fact, you should now wonder why you have.a new oil leak, or???? It’s never in any industry,, acceptable to treat people that way. It’s like cussing out a waitress who took your steak back to be remade. There are too many variables on a high mileage vehicle and the technician has no idea what the vehicle has been though. Accidents, rough handling, poor maintenance practices, vandalism, spent part of life in a high corrosion area, truck that are jumping curbs a lot, towing overloaded, or towing anything a lot. All of these are factors the the tech ay need to know about but probably won’t. We ger, “there’s a steering problem” and the expectation that it be fixed in a day.

[German Shepherd Guy]

Hi Ken.
That problem sounds scary :eek:. I have a hard time believing that any shop would want you back on the road with that situation. :nonono: Good to hear it is at your selling dealer now. I am thinking you have already but be sure to share the thoughts and research you have done with the service MGR. or the Tech who is working on it, not just the service writer.



The story of the ford tech who did not know there were grease zerks on the 250 U-joints was a bit disconcerting but shows to not assume they would know about the steering u-joint or the drive line U-joints perhaps causing the problem. :confused:


I too have always found a reasonable attitude will get more done than a confrontational mode in most cases. :hide:


I will be watching to see what the eventual fix is, and have no doubt they WILL find it, so please let us know.


Oak

[Camper Wayne]

I had a 2002 F-250 4WD that exhibited those symptoms twice. The first time it was a bad front U-joint in the 4WD at 66k miles.

The second time it was a bad ball joint at 77k miles. The ball joint was difficult to diagnose. On the lift the ball joint seemed fine. They found it when they put it on the alignment rack. I’ve seen a couple of times when a bad ball joint seems ok with the suspension dangling on lift until they put vehicle weight on it.

[Ken / Claudia]

I got the truck back tonight. Short version, dealer had a tech who had another truck 2 weeks ago with same problem. Test was jack up the front end, turn the wheels and spin the tires by hand. He found some sticking, put it in 4x4 and had more sticking. Turning the steering wheel and the wheels would lock into the turn. He than drove it in 4x4 in their lot and the steering locked into a turn. The front axle U joints on the right side were shot. They replaced both sides.
Hopefully that was the problem, sounds like it was. I have only put about 50 miles on it today and I told myself the steering felt more responsive than before. I cannot say for sure that's correct. But, before I was happy with the steering until it locked up. Unknown what the cost was I only paid the deductible.

[rhagfo]

Super, sounds like that should be a fix!