Battery on 25RES

[SiniWisdom]

I'm wondering if anyone is familiar with my battery situation. I have a new 2018 Cougar 25RES. I had my truck and wiring harness checked out so I don't think that is the problem. The Cougar battery is not charging while I'm towing. Also, the night before my first camping trip in it I connected the battery and turned the fridge on gas to cool it for the next day's trip. When I got to the lot I park it in, the battery was dead.

It seems to charge when I'm plugged in at the campground but I'm wondering if there is a connection issue or what the heck is going on! I test it with a multi-meter almost every weekend to make sure I have enough juice to raise & lower the jacks when I'm hooking up. It seems to hold the charge.

Any ideas what might be happening??

[5J's]

With your TV hooked up and detached from shore power you should read about 14 volts on the battery. If not then there is a problem with your connection. It could be on the TV side or the TT. The next step would be to verify TV battery at the connector of the TV. This will tell you if the issue is with TV or TT.

[ctbruce]

What is your tow vehicle?

Keep in mind the wire from your truck to the trailer is really small. It will not charge your battery. Instead, it will at best be a trickle charge and will keep it topped off at best.

Have you used a voltmeter to check that you have electric from your TV? Is your battery disconnect on or off?

[66joej]

Check for a fuse under the hood of your TV. If this is the first RV the truck has pulled the fuse may never have been installed.

[GHen]

X2 on limited charging power from the TV. With a stock alternator in the TV and traveling at night with lights on or with heater fan on, there will be limited power available to the charge the RV batteries. An aftermarket high power alternator will help, but you still just have a small wire providing a trickle charge to the RV. I always fully charge batteries in RV before traveling.

[SiniWisdom]

With your TV hooked up and detached from shore power you should read about 14 volts on the battery. If not then there is a problem with your connection. It could be on the TV side or the TT. The next step would be to verify TV battery at the connector of the TV. This will tell you if the issue is with TV or TT.
I don't quite undertstand "The next step would be to verify TV battery at the connector of the TV."

[SiniWisdom]

Check for a fuse under the hood of your TV. If this is the first RV the truck has pulled the fuse may never have been installed.
My truck is a 2018 Ford F 150 with the tow package. The 2016 models and later had the fuse installed before delivery. That was the first thing I checked.

[SiniWisdom]

What is your tow vehicle?

Keep in mind the wire from your truck to the trailer is really small. It will not charge your battery. Instead, it will at best be a trickle charge and will keep it topped off at best.

Have you used a voltmeter to check that you have electric from your TV? Is your battery disconnect on or off?
My truck is a 2018 Ford F 150 with tow package. I have checked with voltmeter and the RV battery always reads around 12.4 volts regardless if the RV is connected to the truck with lights on, fridge on, etc. The battery disconnect is off (which in itself is confusing to explain). In other words the key to engage the battery is connected.

[ctbruce]

I don't quite undertstand "The next step would be to verify TV battery at the connector of the TV."You need a multimeter to check that you have electric at your 7-pin connector. If the fuse is in as you stated then you need verify it is working.

You didn't say what position your battery disconnect is in, assuming your rig has one. It needs to be off, so the battery can trickle charge.22652

[ctbruce]

We were typing at the same time!

[SiniWisdom]

The Ford dealer checked the wiring harness and it is connected properly. Also, the dash in the truck verifys that the "Trailer is Connected".

Maybe the problem is that I have the battery disconnect engaged. I'll try removing the disconnect key and see if the truck indicates that the trailer battery is charging.

One more question: shouldn't I be able to connect the battery in the RV and then turn on the fridge on gas without killing the battery? Or do I connect the battery, turn on the fridge and then disconnect the battery?

[ctbruce]

The Ford dealer checked the wiring harness and it is connected properly. Also, the dash in the truck verifys that the "Trailer is Connected".

Maybe the problem is that I have the battery disconnect engaged. I'll try removing the disconnect key and see if the truck indicates that the trailer battery is charging.

One more question: shouldn't I be able to connect the battery in the RV and then turn on the fridge on gas without killing the battery? Or do I connect the battery, turn on the fridge and then disconnect the battery?The battery has to stay connected or you need to be plugged in to house current. The fridge needs 12v power to keep it running on propane.

[Steveo57]

The Ford dealer checked the wiring harness and it is connected properly. Also, the dash in the truck verifys that the "Trailer is Connected".

Maybe the problem is that I have the battery disconnect engaged. I'll try removing the disconnect key and see if the truck indicates that the trailer battery is charging.

One more question: shouldn't I be able to connect the battery in the RV and then turn on the fridge on gas without killing the battery? Or do I connect the battery, turn on the fridge and then disconnect the battery?

The fridge needs 12 volts to operate. Leave the battery disconnect in the on "connected" position. You need to check the voltage while your truck is plugged in and see what it reads. I have the same truck and just because the truck says it's connected doesn't mean that your battery is charging.

There are always some small loads on the battery and if you are running the fridge it will deplete the battery in a few a week or so unless it gets charged somehow.

[SiniWisdom]

That's what I thought. However, I connected the disconnect battery key the night before a camping trip, turned the fridge on gas to cool it overnight and the next morning the battery was completely dead. I had the battery checked and it is good and holds a charge, so it's not the battery. Maybe you can see now why I'm am completely baffled with what is going on with the battery. I will not be able to boondock with this situation without a generator.

I'm taking it to a Keystone dealer later in the month for some warranty work and I will try to explain all of this to them. Maybe they can figure it out.

[ctbruce]

That's what I thought. However, I connected the disconnect battery key the night before a camping trip, turned the fridge on gas to cool it overnight and the next morning the battery was completely dead. I had the battery checked and it is good and holds a charge, so it's not the battery. Maybe you can see now why I'm am completely baffled with what is going on with the battery. I will not be able to boondock with this situation without a generator.

I'm taking it to a Keystone dealer later in the month for some warranty work and I will try to explain all of this to them. Maybe they can figure it out.Do you have anything else on that is not necessary? Your battery with just the fridge on shouldn't drain in a single night.

That said, do you have an option to plug it in to your house current? I do that the night before on mine. Cools down the fridge and recharges the battery to full. Win-Win situation.

[Steveo57]

That's what I thought. However, I connected the disconnect battery key the night before a camping trip, turned the fridge on gas to cool it overnight and the next morning the battery was completely dead. I had the battery checked and it is good and holds a charge, so it's not the battery. Maybe you can see now why I'm am completely baffled with what is going on with the battery. I will not be able to boondock with this situation without a generator.

I'm taking it to a Keystone dealer later in the month for some warranty work and I will try to explain all of this to them. Maybe they can figure it out.

How are you charging the battery after it goes dead? At best you can make it two to three days boondocking with a good fully charged single 12 volt battery.

[SiniWisdom]

Do you have anything else on that is not necessary? Your battery with just the fridge on shouldn't drain in a single night.

That said, do you have an option to plug it in to your house current? I do that the night before on mine. Cools down the fridge and recharges the battery to full. Win-Win situation.
Both televisions are plugged in but off. They both have a display light only. The CD player has a time display. That is it. Again should not be enough to drain the battery overnight.

I do not have an option to plug into the house. The camper is stored in a RV & boat storage lot with no electricity. I do not have a driveway big enough to accomodate the camper.

[SiniWisdom]

How are you charging the battery after it goes dead? At best you can make it two to three days boondocking with a good fully charged single 12 volt battery.
I disconnected it and took it to a Batteries Plus to have it tested and charged. Then I bought another one to have as a backup that I keep charged with a trickle charger. This is why I think there is some issues with the connection wiring in the Cougar.

[foldbak]

I have to assume that you're trailer is on shore power charging prior to your trip long enough to get to full charge? How old are the batteries? The first thing I'd do is load test them to see if their holding a charge. Just because they reach 12 volts after charging doesn't mean their good. You can take the trailer to a auto parts store to have them load tested or invest in one. Start there. After confirming the batteries are good keeping them connected turn off everything and do a system load test to see if there is a drain on them. With everything off there shouldn't be any drain. You'll need an amp meter for this test. If you have any substantial drain then it will cause them to fail. Think of it as a car with the interior light left on. That will kill the battery in a few days.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zdIKNnwEjIs

[Canonman]

Not sure if I understand your problem completely. You hooked up your battery in preparation to go camping and the next day (I assume you came to pick up the Cougar to leave) and found the battery was dead.
So, somehow you loaded the Cougar and pulled it to the campground and the battery was still dead even after towing? But, it did charge while you were connected to shore power at the campground.
If that's the case, then here's my thoughts on what's happening:
1. The battery was in a less than full state of charge when you hooked it up the night before since it was disconnected. 12vdc batteries will discharge even when disconnected for extended periods of time. If you checked the battery and found it at 12.4 volts it's only at 80% charge. (check the attached volt chart) If you didn't check the voltage then it may have been less.
2. When you found the battery dead the next day, I'm guessing you connected to the truck in order to raise/lower the jacks to load the Cougar and travel to the campground. You don't say how far you drove or how many hours, but it takes hours to charge a dead battery even with a dedicated battery charger. Further the truck is supplying only trickle charge to the trailer battery 14 volts or so but at very low amperage. So, if you did connect the truck to use the jacks to load then the Aux 12v charging from the truck is working. Check the attached 7 pin connecter diagram. Note pin 4 is the Aux charging circuit. Turn the truck on and if you have 12+ volts there then you're OK
3. If your battery is charging when the cougar is plugged in to shore power then the battery disconnect is in the right position. The key will come out of the switch if it in the off or disconnect position. It cannot be removed if it's in the on position.

Hope this helps. Let us know how it works out.

[Steveo57]

It sounds like the battery is not fully charged when you start things up in the storage area. A fully charged battery should read 12.6-12.7 volts at rest.

[SiniWisdom]

I went to hook up the Cougar and the battery was dead. Since it would take too long to charge it, I disconnected it and took it to Batteries Plus to have them charge it and test it. I also bought a new battery and hooked it up to the Cougar so I wouldn't have to wait hours to start the trip. Since the original battery was a March 2019 battery (new), their load testing verified that the battery was good. That is how I got to the campground.

This is too complicated to try to explain. I believe there is something wrong with how the battery is hooked up in the camper, so I'll just talk to the Cougar dealer and have them check everything out. Thanks for everyone's advice!

[JRTJH]

I wonder if during all the 'battery connecting/switching/checking/troubleshooting" if you might have inadvertently connected the battery cables incorrectly (even momentarily) and blown the reverse polarity fuses on the trailer power center DC distribution panel ???

[SiniWisdom]

I was pretty careful about not doing that but if I had, would the interior lights work off the battery? Because they do, the fridge turns on, the slides operate... all without being plugged into outlet.

[JRTJH]

I was pretty careful about not doing that but if I had, would the interior lights work off the battery? Because they do, the fridge turns on, the slides operate... all without being plugged into outlet.

Yes. The battery will work "just like it's supposed to" until it dies, then it will stop working. The converter will work when plugged into shore power to keep the lights and refrigerator operating, but the charge line to the battery is disconnected (through the blown reverse polarity fuses) so the battery won't charge at all.

The only indication you have that the reverse polarity fuses are blown is to physically look at them. Electrically, if you disconnect the battery and use a voltmeter on the battery cables, you'll get 0 VDC, but all the lights and 12 volt systems in the trailer will still be working.

[5J's]

I don't quite undertstand "The next step would be to verify TV battery at the connector of the TV."Sorry I'm late back to the game. I was referring to the 7 way plug on the truck.

[sonofcy]

I went to hook up the Cougar and the battery was dead. Since it would take too long to charge it, I disconnected it and took it to Batteries Plus to have them charge it and test it. I also bought a new battery and hooked it up to the Cougar so I wouldn't have to wait hours to start the trip. Since the original battery was a March 2019 battery (new), their load testing verified that the battery was good. That is how I got to the campground.

This is too complicated to try to explain. I believe there is something wrong with how the battery is hooked up in the camper, so I'll just talk to the Cougar dealer and have them check everything out. Thanks for everyone's advice!
I don't see that anyone has asked you if the battery is a REAL deep cycle battery. If the battery says ANYTHING about cranking then it is at best a hybrid and can be quickly killed. If it has ever been fully discharged even once that could be the end of it. Experienced full timers use a GC2 battery. The pair of 6V batteries will last longer and have much more power. Our 5er came with 2 75AH 12 V batteries that I killed while trouble shooting a slide issue. I replaced them with a pair of Trojan T105's at 225AH but only use 50% so 112.5AH. It is highly unlikely the stores you are going to know anything about true deep discharge batteries and the RV dealer if he does won;t likely tell you unless he is going to sell it to you then you should ask why didn;'t you install one originally. I was just at a RV store/dealer and they had a wall of the wrong batteries. Nowhere do they have the right batteries. BTW, Trojan also makes the actual battery (not the case) for a few brands and are slightly cheaper. The way you know if you are at 50% is by installing a Bogart Engineering Trimetric TM-2030-RV meter or equivalent. Simple DIY job and now you will know EXACTLY what is happening with your battery. BTW, using a VOM to check voltage while connected in the RV is likely just reading your converter output, and taking it somewhere to test is better but the battery needs to rest some amount of time (1 hr?) to give a proper result.

[ddibon]

Lots of good replies here. These RVs have a large number of "phantom drains" of DC power. These drains discharge your battery unless the RV is totally shut down. The charging ability of your trailer pin or the built in converter is less than 3 amps. A Refrigerator, thermostat and propane alarm pull 2.1 to 2.5 amps. That means your battery will drop below 11.4 V in 4 to 12 hours (depending upon battery specifics), effectively shutting you down. Remember that the head unit for audiovisuals is DC powered. The AV unit is a mass consumer of DC power. A single, non LED light can pull 1.5 amps.

Such pulls on a low battery will also generate a lot of heat, further degrading your power system (Ohm's Law).

The fix so you don't have to learn crap beyond what it takes to enjoy your purchase is 2 fold. 1-Add more battery. 200 amp hours is needed for reasonable use. 2- Add a second battery charger/maintainer delivering 3 to 10 amps an hour. I use a 100W solar panel and battery tender set up. No issues for 4+ years.

[MRK&MRY]

Had a new awning installed at my local dealer. They turn the battery disconnect switch so customer battery won't go dead. I am new to a lot of this and didn't even know about the switch. "Accidently" spotted the switch while doing something else and all of my battery charging problems were solved!

[efrulla]

I have a 2017 25RES. I have always kept it plugged into household power. The first year I used a 15 AMP circuit. Last summer I had a 30 AMP Service installed. That way the battery is fresh before each trip and the fridge and other power soaks are not leaching off the battery but are being fed by the household power/

[Mainer]

TV alternators of ANY size are designed to maintain the thin plate lightly depleted starting battery at 13.6 volts, not to quickly recharge a depleted thick plate battery through 20 or more feet of smallish wire. To recharge a trailer battery that is down more than 20%, needs over 14 volts or it takes many hours to trickle charge it at 13.6 volts. Getting a full 13.6 volts to a depleted trailer battery is impossible with the size wire in the TV.

Even the converter in my Bullet won't put out it's bulk charge voltage of 14.4 volts for more than a few minutes unless the battery is way down because Keystone put the converter so far away from the batteries:whistling:. It quickly drops to 13.6 volts at less than 5 amps and trickles it in.

Next mod is splitting the power panel from the converter and putting the converter forward nearer the batteries where it should be.:banghead:

[SiniWisdom]

UPDATE:Service shop said the problem with the battery and the fridge is the converter, which they are replacing. I'm not totally convinced but we'll see I guess. Hopefully not when I'm stuck in the middle of nowhere! I did ask them if there is a way/room to add another battery and they are going to look into that. The battery compartment is small and I don't want to void the warranty, so again, we'll see.

[sonofcy]

UPDATE:Service shop said the problem with the battery and the fridge is the converter, which they are replacing. I'm not totally convinced but we'll see I guess. Hopefully not when I'm stuck in the middle of nowhere! I did ask them if there is a way/room to add another battery and they are going to look into that. The battery compartment is small and I don't want to void the warranty, so again, we'll see.
You might be the rare person who has both a good RV shop and an accurate diagnosis but the odds are verrry long. If you check, you will see literally thousands of complaints about battery performance. Here are a few FACTS. Make sure you have a true deep cycle battery. You can tell it's the right battery if it does NOT have any labelling that says CCA (cold cranking amps), marine cranking amps, cranking anything. It should only list Amp Hours. Never use more than half the capacity. Get . Trimetric TM-2030-RV to know when you are getting close to half. A tow vehicle can not quickly charge a battery that is 20 feet away, the wiring is ridiculously small. Just look at the size of the wires coming off your battery and compare that to what is in the 7 pin RV connector. If you are going to analyze your battery by checking the voltage, you MUST disconnect all the positive or negative cables from the battery first. I have never seen an RV dealer install a proper battery. If nobody mentioned it already, get a pair of Trojan T-105's. Most factory installed converters are underpowered, too far away from the batteries with wires way too small. It only takes a small amount of voltage drop over skinny wires to make a huge difference in charging, we are talking about many extra hours at the low voltage the converter puts out. Total cost of a pair of T-105's and a TM-2030-RV is about $600 plus taxes.

[SiniWisdom]

I appreciate your input and advice, however, I am at the mercy of RV service shops because I am not a DIYer. I can install the batteries but only with the cables supplied in the Cougar. I'll look into the battery you recommend. I will start full timing about this time next year and over the course of this next year I am researching options that will make things easier living full time in this RV. Hopefully I can take some boot camps and seminars about RV maintenance and learning to do things by myself.
Thanks to everyone for your advice and input!

[chuckster57]

You tube is your best free on-line training, followed by this forum. Or the other way around LOL.