Do I really need a dually?

[hguilford]

I have compiled a detailed list of pros and cons for buying a new TV with DRW, and for one with SRW. Looking at the 2019 Silverado 3500HD models with 6.6L Duramax diesel, both are plenty capable of pulling my Keystone Avalanche A320RS. Prices are very similar so that's not a big factor. I could always flip a coin but that's not how I work. I will analyze this to death, read hundreds of blogs and posts, use lots of paper making computations and calculations, and run various algorithms, to come up with the best option (mostly said in jest). I appreciate and value the responses and advice from the members of this forum but would rather hear from those who have faced this dilemma. I want to know if there is any valid way to come to a conclusion, other than personal preference. Thanks, and happy camping!

[sourdough]

I don't own a dually and will defer to those that respond but -

Remember that the numbers (weights) can and will definitively tell you if you do in fact need a dually. It's more than a personal preference. A Silverado 3500 SRW with the Duramax can assuredly tow it but can it "carry" it safely? The only way to know is to know the numbers from the truck you intend to buy inside the driver door. The Avalanche has a gvw of 15k so there's the starting point and remember to give yourself a nice cushion between the actual load placed in/on the TV and its payload/gawr. Good luck in your pursuit.

[chuckster57]

Having towed a 1996 Jayco 323RKS with both a SRW and a DRW, I will NEVER tow another fiver with anything but a dually. My personal story:

2009, in Missouri on I40 eastbound. Just past 65 and doing 67 MPH ( just under flow of traffic). Blew the DS rear inner tire, and just slowed and pulled over. If I had a SRW, I don’t really think the outcome would have been the same knowing now what I didn’t know back then.

When I bought the Jayco, the tag in the kitchen cabinet said it weighed 8975 and 1800 kingpin. When I starting looking for my current fiver, I ended up at a Jayco dealer who told me that trailer was more like 11,500 EMPTY and well into 2200 kingpin.

Take it for what it’s worth, I like the idea of 4 feet on the road and if one “shoe” falls off the other 3 will hold the weight.

[rhagfo]

Well that 5er has a 15,000# GVWR, it will far more relaxing with the DRW, than a SRW.

[travelin texans]

Do you plan to fulltime or extended travel? If so you will be at the max, possibly over the GVW of that rv before you know it. Yes , the SRW will/can move it down the road, but from my dually experience it will do much more stable feeling.
Back to fulltiming, chances are if doing so it won't take long before you're looking a bigger 5th wheels, if you get the dually you're good to go.
DW told me that if we were going to fulltime after retirement that I better get all the truck I need for whatever 5th wheel she wanted & don't regret having a dually as a daily driver for the past 14 years, 10 of which fulltiming.

[rhagfo]

Will add that the check the payload on some 2019 Chevys DRW, as they only have a a 13,025# GVWR. Ford and Ram both have 14,000 GVWR, our 2016 Ram Laramie has a 5,411# Payload, you should find some in a like range.

[CaptnJohn]

Pulling 14,550 is no problem with my f350 srw. No fan of a dually or long bed. However the new 5er wifey had to have exceeds the payload and weight limit of a srw . I ordered a f350 dually last month.

[Sinton4616]

I have an Avalanche 321RS with a DRW F350. I could have gotten the SRW and would have been very close to the limits, with DRW I don't have that issue.

Having towed different fivers with a Dodge 2500, F250 and the F350 DRW, I find the DRW much less stressful going down the road.

[Tbos]

My Alpine has a GVWR of 15,500. I pull with a F350 DRW and love the stability. If I had it to do again I’d order a F450 with just the stuff I needed so I could take advantage of the better turning radius.

[CaptnJohn]

My Alpine has a GVWR of 15,500. I pull with a F350 DRW and love the stability. If I had it to do again I’d order a F450 with just the stuff I needed so I could take advantage of the better turning radius.



Yes the turning is noticeably better. The payload on a 450 is less which makes no sense to me.

[fatcatzzz]

I am in the dually class also. I pull #16400 with #4100 pin weigh. I personally would not pull with a swr.

[Snoking]

I have compiled a detailed list of pros and cons for buying a new TV with DRW, and for one with SRW. Looking at the 2019 Silverado 3500HD models with 6.6L Duramax diesel, both are plenty capable of pulling my Keystone Avalanche A320RS. Prices are very similar so that's not a big factor. I could always flip a coin but that's not how I work. I will analyze this to death, read hundreds of blogs and posts, use lots of paper making computations and calculations, and run various algorithms, to come up with the best option (mostly said in jest). I appreciate and value the responses and advice from the members of this forum but would rather hear from those who have faced this dilemma. I want to know if there is any valid way to come to a conclusion, other than personal preference. Thanks, and happy camping!

Both will work! The question is what percent of the time are you going to tow the 5th wheel? If that is a low number, then a SRW makes sense. And you will not have this issue.

[rjrelander]

As far as DRW hip width is concerned, didn't they used to (still?) make narrow duallys with the wheels tucked in using shorter rear axles? Is the wider rear end an intentional design for stability thing or are they just tacking a set of wheels to the outside of a SRW and adding fender flairs to get the extra payload?

[Snoking]

As far as DRW hip width is concerned, didn't they used to (still?) make narrow duallys with the wheels tucked in using shorter rear axles? Is the wider rear end an intentional design for stability thing or are they just tacking a set of wheels to the outside of a SRW and adding fender flairs to get the extra payload?

Chassis Cabs have straight frame rails and shorter axles. The SRW and DRW trucks use the same frame and therefore the wheels of the DRW have to stick out farther to clear the wider rear frame. Chris

[rjrelander]

Chassis Cabs have straight frame rails and shorter axles. The SRW and DRW trucks use the same frame and therefore the wheels of the DRW have to stick out farther to clear the wider rear frame. Chris
Ahh, that makes sense. They must make "standard-looking" modified pickup boxes with extra wheel well width to drop on the chassis cab frames. I know I've seen a couple but never put much thought into what they really were.

[Tbos]

Yes the turning is noticeably better. The payload on a 450 is less which makes no sense to me.


I’m told it has to do with the heavier frame and other misc suspension items. That’s why I’d like one very similar to my 350 XLT. I’d hope to have a payload of about 5000 vice my 5600. Had a friend that had one and this is where his came in.

[cookinwitdiesel]

I bought a GMC 3500HD Duramax Denali 2 weeks ago. When shopping around I also (briefly) looked at the SRW (otherwise comparably spec'd). The SRW had 3500# payload, the DRW had 4500# payload. The DRW was also an 8ft bed (which helps with stability).

You will want to have that extra 1000# of payload for sure with pretty much anything more than a modest mid-profile fifth wheel. Also, always nice to have the truck you will need in the future as well, not just what you need now. The DRW is the only way you wont have those regrets. When driving down the road, the extra width is completely in your head, your mirrors will still stick out further and I am guessing you have never broke one of those off while driving down the road. The additional width also helps when stabilizing a lot vertical force going right on top of the rear axle. I would recommend that regardless, make sure you get a truck that has the OEM puck system installed - I honestly do not know why it is not just standard on the HD/SD trucks.

We had started out all of this (new truck and trailer 2 weeks ago) looking at a mid-profile fifth wheel but ended up getting a nice full profile one. If I had gotten the SRW, we couldn't have done that and would have been stuck with the smaller trailer and I would have been living in regret.

[rhagfo]

I bought a GMC 3500HD Duramax Denali 2 weeks ago. When shopping around I also (briefly) looked at the SRW (otherwise comparably spec'd). The SRW had 3500# payload, the DRW had 4500# payload. The DRW was also an 8ft bed (which helps with stability).

You will want to have that extra 1000# of payload for sure with pretty much anything more than a modest mid-profile fifth wheel. Also, always nice to have the truck you will need in the future as well, not just what you need now. The DRW is the only way you wont have those regrets. When driving down the road, the extra width is completely in your head, your mirrors will still stick out further and I am guessing you have never broke one of those off while driving down the road. The additional width also helps when stabilizing a lot vertical force going right on top of the rear axle. I would recommend that regardless, make sure you get a truck that has the OEM puck system installed - I honestly do not know why it is not just standard on the HD/SD trucks.

We had started out all of this (new truck and trailer 2 weeks ago) looking at a mid-profile fifth wheel but ended up getting a nice full profile one. If I had gotten the SRW, we couldn't have done that and would have been stuck with the smaller trailer and I would have been living in regret.
2019 GMC Sierra 3500HD Denali Diesel DRW (Crew Cab/8 Ft bed/OEM Puck System/Curt A25 Hitch)


Something to think about Cookinwitdiesel's 2019 GMC Denali 3500 DRW only has a 13,025 GVWR. Both Ford and Ram have 14,000# GVWR, our 2016 Ram Laramie 3500 DRW has a payload of 5,411, this is with the heaver Aisin auto, and factory Puck system. So out the door our Ram has 1,000# more payload.

[rhagfo]

Both will work! The question is what percent of the time are you going to tow the 5th wheel? If that is a low number, then a SRW makes sense. And you will not have this issue.

Well if the dude got his rear tire next to the curb, it would be inside the line.

That is a nice looking 3rd gen Ram DRW. It is all in getting use to the size, it is only as big as your mind makes it. We had this discussion when you moved up from your 2nd Gen reg cab LB, to the Crew Cab SB. Now you can see I also upgraded from our 2nd gen Quad Cab LB to a 4th gen Crew Cab LB, DRW. DW wife drives without issue.

https://i.imgur.com/EyUB1tD.jpg

[cookinwitdiesel]

Yep, the GMs are the lowest rated in the pack for a month or two longer (the new 2020s are on par). Still enough for most scenarios though without issue.

[Javi]

Pretty sure that they offer 14K GVWR on the 3500 GMC/Chevy.... somebody wasn't looking..

Ya'll quit buying them heated seats.. my '15 F350 dually diesel XLT has a door sticker with 6200 on it. And wide turn. [emoji16]

[CaptnJohn]

I ordered an F350 with the 14k over the 13k. Not certain if there is any difference other than the sticker.

[Logan X]

Pretty sure that they offer 14K GVWR on the 3500 GMC/Chevy.... somebody wasn't looking..

Ya'll quit buying them heated seats.. my '15 F350 dually diesel XLT has a door sticker with 6200 on it. And wide turn. [emoji16]

I don’t have a Dually but I do love my heated seats...:)

[CaptnJohn]

Heated is good but I use the 'cooled' feature more, especially here in the south where the leather gets hot.

[Javi]

Heated is good but I use the 'cooled' feature more, especially here in the south where the leather gets hot.Well I like vinyl, if it gets muddy I can use a water hose to clean it out..[emoji2957]

[Fishsizzle]

Yes the turning is noticeably better. The payload on a 450 is less which makes no sense to me.

Bigger frame, bigger brakes, bigger front axle (4x4) and 19.5 wheels and tires

[rhagfo]

Pretty sure that they offer 14K GVWR on the 3500 GMC/Chevy.... somebody wasn't looking..

Ya'll quit buying them heated seats.. my '15 F350 dually diesel XLT has a door sticker with 6200 on it. And wide turn. [emoji16]

I don’t have a Dually but I do love my heated seats...:)

Heated is good but I use the 'cooled' feature more, especially here in the south where the leather gets hot.

Sorry Javi, 4X4, heated seats and steering wheel, and cooled seats, and the rear seats are heated also.
I also added on board air 150 psi 12 volt Viair system with 2.5 gal tank.
This is our daily driver and comfort is important.

[Snoking]

Well if the dude got his rear tire next to the curb, it would be inside the line.



Was very close to the curb. I see this truck parked in front of the small town police station a lot on my way to my RC Flying Field. I believe the owner is one of the officers. RHIP

Chris

[rhagfo]

Yes the turning is noticeably better. The payload on a 450 is less which makes no sense to me.

Bigger frame, bigger brakes, bigger front axle (4x4) and 19.5 wheels and tires

This is another where Ford believes it has "A Better Idea"!
Just like the F350 SRW with a 10,000# GVWR that is designed to help advoid crazy registration rules and fees for "Commercial" vehicles.
Keeping the GVWR limited to 14,000# on the F450 means less hassel with the Commercial issue, BUT can put the owner in legal limbo by being over GVWR if used to axle ratings.

[Ken / Claudia]

The poster asked about which truck to buy to pull his 5er. Apparently either might do the job. So, I need to ask, what's in your future? RVs for most will never last as long as the TV. Do you think another 5er will be in the future and if so, is it going to be bigger, smaller or exactly the same size and weight. If like most it will be heavier and likely longer. Get a DRW now so you have a vehicle able to make the change.

[Laredo Tugger]

The poster asked about which truck to buy to pull his 5er. Apparently either might do the job. So, I need to ask, what's in your future? RVs for most will never last as long as the TV. Do you think another 5er will be in the future and if so, is it going to be bigger, smaller or exactly the same size and weight. If like most it will be heavier and likely longer. Get a DRW now so you have a vehicle able to make the change.

X2 Ken!!
Everyone has chimed in here except the OP. Maybe the OP is reading our advice and maybe not. As Ken stated, the OP gave no real info as to how much "stuff" the trailer will have as cargo (kids,bikes,generator ect...). While it has plenty of capacity (3487 lbs.) the OP may never come close to max. Also no information about the "service expectation" of the trailer, full timing or towing maybe 3 times a year a couple hindered miles?
In this case (as explained by the OP) if it is not great burden financially or otherwise I would go with the dually. While it is true not everyone pulling a 5er needs a dually,that is a real heavy trailer fully loaded and the dually would be the best and safest TV. JMHO
RMc

[notanlines]

I believe the OP hasn't been back, but this is the RV he is referring to: Avalanche
Year 2019
Make Keystone
Model A320RS
Length 36

[Tbos]

Ya'll quit buying them heated seats.. my '15 F350 dually diesel XLT has a door sticker with 6200 on it. And wide turn. [emoji16]


I think we talked before the difference between our 16 and your 15 is the 4x4. I’m glad I have it. It has pulled me out of the mud a couple times with or without the 5er attached. No heated seats since they are cloth.

[CaptnJohn]

Waiting to see the sticker when my new one comes in. A lariat with heated/cooled seats and other junk. If not around 5k I'll be pissed.

[vampress_me]

Waiting to see the sticker when my new one comes in. A lariat with heated/cooled seats and other junk. If not around 5k I'll be pissed.

We picked up our new 2019 F-350 DRW a week and a half ago. Lariat with Ultimate package, extended running boards, crew cab, long bed, spray in bed liner. No pucks in bed though, went with the B&W turnover ball again. Yellow sticker gives 5456 lbs payload. :). And here are the first 2 weighs on a scale. First, truck alone (2 adults, 2 teens, Companion hitch, full tank of diesel). Second photo is truck and camper loaded with the typicals for us.

[Snoking]

We picked up our new 2019 F-350 DRW a week and a half ago. Lariat with Ultimate package, extended running boards, crew cab, long bed, spray in bed liner. No pucks in bed though, went with the B&W turnover ball again. Yellow sticker gives 5456 lbs payload. :). And here are the first 2 weighs on a scale. First, truck alone (2 adults, 2 teens, Companion hitch, full tank of diesel). Second photo is truck and camper loaded with the typicals for us.

So if you believe in GVWR assuming it is 14K, you have 4660 pounds of capacity left.

[CaptnJohn]

Thank you. We will be close. I did not get the. Bedliner and have just the wife but do have an auxiliary tank.

[TYHLR]

FWIW I purchased my dually long before I purchased the camper but I knew going in that we would end up in a large 5vr. The camper weighs in at 15k with 2800 on the pin and the dually pulls and stops it with no issue.

As someone mentioned previously in the thread, go with the bigger truck that way you will be covered as you start looking at bigger campers.

The same logic now holds true for us as we are looking at even larger campers and am now considering moving into a Class 6 Peterbilt. You can never have too much truck.

Hope this helps. Happy shopping.

[falcondan95705]

A dually is needed when ever the rear axle weight is exceed, the gvwr of tow vehicle is exceed. All the new trucks are more than capable of pulling that trailer.questions arise when the trucks ratings are over the limits.. a truck may be rated to pull 18000lbs..However. if the pin weight, passengers, stuff in the truck push it over ratings, YES, A DUALLY IS CALLED FOR..or, smaller trailer.
3/4 tons gvwr are about 10000 lbs..1 tons are 12300 thereabouts, Duallys like the ram has a gvwr of 14000 lbs. With us in the truck and hitch. Fuel we are at 9000lbs. Leaving 5000 lbs of leeway..

[hguilford]

Thanks to all who have replied and commented on my post. Rest assured I have read each and every one of them and I am compiling a detailed list for the DW. Having a background in accounting she understands numbers so you are all helping me win my argument. I decided some time back to get the dually and have been looking for the right deal. No, we are not full timers and won't be, although once she retires we will hit the road for longer stretches and distances, and I won't have to worry about the mountains with the diesel under the hood. It's just me, the DW (who plans to drive a separate vehicle on ALL trips) and our two small dogs. The 5er is loaded with as much STUFF as we will ever carry so it isn't close to gross wt. As far as upgrading to a bigger unit in the future, that has also been a consideration for the truck purchase. In 30 plus years of RVing I've made that mistake before and don't intend to repeat. Thanks again for all your input. It is greatly appreciated!

[chuckster57]

CCLB dually makes We travel with a dog and cat and most often her sister.

[sonofcy]

4 tires carry more weight than 2 tires. Not double due to weight of wheels etc. Check 25% of trailer fully loaded GVWR and see what fits. I like the stability, bigger brakes, tighter turning radius of my daily driver 17 F450. Because I live in lotus land, I sometimes need to park further away due to small size of parking spaces here but I just consider that a free workout. I am full time and have lots of time to walk the extra distance.

[idcruiserman]

I found no downside to having a dually. Well, when buying tires.

[cookinwitdiesel]

If you are buying a dually and pulling a big trailer with it, odds are a couple more tires every few years aren't breaking the piggy bank

[sonofcy]

My F450 came with Continental 19.5" commercial grade tires. They will age out long before they ever wear out. Warranty is 7 years. Just another advantage of 450 over 350.

[LewisB]

Recommend you add these to your "plus" list for DRW:
> If you are under age 70, your next trailer will likely be bigger!
> If you ever ride in a side X side, you will want one and you will end up with a toy hauler. This is important because it means that your "cargo" weight will jump by 1500-2000 pounds.
> At some point as your trailers get bigger, you will want an auxiliary fuel tank. Ours is 90 gallons which add about 650 pounds cargo weight to your TV.
> If you ever get a low or flat rear tire, you will experience a little loss of stability but will be able to drive to the repair location. Quite different with SRW.
> With DRW, you have to park farther out in the lot which means you will get to walk a bit farther which is good for your health.
> With DRW, the DW is likely not going to want to use it as HER daily driver.

From experience, we started camping off the back of my motorcycle. That grew to tent camping from car, to tent camping with utility trailer, to tent trailer camping, to pull trailer camping, to 5th wheel with SRW pick-up, to 5th wheel pulling cargo trailer (doubles), to our current toy hauler with DRW pick-up. Our current CVWR is almost 28,000. Now, camping is with 3 tv's, 2 bath rooms, a king bed, and a 50" TV. I'd bet there are a lot of forum members who would echo this progression. It has been a wonderful experience through which we raised our kids and have seen a significant amount of this wonderful country called America!

I strongly recommend the DRW - I think at some point you will ultimately wish you would have saved the cost of another new truck by spending just a bit more when buying this one. We love our dually!

[Fuzion315]

At the risk of piling on, we have indeed experienced the same progression as LewisB. I also fully agree with the DRW recommendation. I love the stability the DRW adds to the towing experience. I also like the turning radius of the 2018 RAM versus the old Ford '06 F350 SRW (8' bed). The Ford was awful. The Ram is actually no problem in city traffic in every day driving. We love our 2018 RAM 3500 DRW.

[Hamops]

I have a '06 Chevy 2500HD DMax, and I'm thinking of adding a dually kit. I have no intention of trying to increase my GVWR, but instead distribute the increased weight of my trailer over 4 tires instead of 2. I've had one rear tire blowout and I attribute it too much weight on the single tire. The blowout occurred on a very hot day. I suspect the blowout was caused by both heat and pressure build up in the tire.

[mcomeaux]

Myself I cut the chase after a SRW and acquired a 3500 Dodge DRW 3.73 Aisin Trans and day and night difference in towing. Either make of diesel SRW will pull the weight but it's what you put over the rear wheels. I've also read and heard stories where some have exceeded gross vehicle weight and put themselves in a gray area with insurance when a accident occurs. Operating outside of perimeters....

[BRB Rig]

We did a lot of research, test driving, and brand comparison before we bought our 2016 GMC Sierra 3500HD Turbo Diesel 6.6 Duramax crew cab DRW with 12K miles. It drives like a car and tows like a beast. Since December, we’ve towed our hauler 9K miles and we LOVE the power, comfort, and dependability. We are happy that we didn’t go with an SRW. Our hauler weighs a total of 16.5K lbs. Good luck!

[mlarryeliz]

One more vote for the drw. I tow a 14k# gvwr Sprinter with my f350 drw and it hums along at 65mph. Contrast that to a f150 that I previously owned towing a 6k# flagstaff and the experience was completely different. Drw really “plants” the rear end with excellent stability and unaffected by passing semis and crosswinds. I own a ‘19 f350 outfitted for comfortable highway travel. Travel with the 5er is an absolute pleasure!! Like I said, nothing new here, it’s all been said!!

[rhagfo]

We did a lot of research, test driving, and brand comparison before we bought our 2016 GMC Sierra 3500HD Turbo Diesel 6.6 Duramax crew cab DRW with 12K miles. It drives like a car and tows like a beast. Since December, we’ve towed our hauler 9K miles and we LOVE the power, comfort, and dependability. We are happy that we didn’t go with an SRW. Our hauler weighs a total of 16.5K lbs. Good luck!

I find it interesting that you did a bunch of research and bought the DRW with the lowest GVWR and towing capacity.
The GM DRW max out at 13,025# GVWR where both Ford and Ram have 14,000# GVWR, that is about 1,000# less than the other two.

[cookinwitdiesel]

And yet, still more than enough for most use cases. I prefer the GM interior and Allison transmission personally.

[BRB Rig]

I find it interesting that you did a bunch of research and bought the DRW with the lowest GVWR and towing capacity.
The GM DRW max out at 13,025# GVWR where both Ford and Ram have 14,000# GVWR, that is about 1,000# less than the other two.

Not sure where you are getting your numbers. Our truck is rated by GMC to safely tow up to 23,300 lbs.

[cookinwitdiesel]

Not sure where you are getting your numbers. Our truck is rated by GMC to safely tow up to 23,300 lbs.

And the other two are over 30k if I remember right, and their payloads are about 1k higher. BUT, they do not drive as well empty and other preferences such as I stated above (styling, interior, transmission, etc)

[rhagfo]

Not sure where you are getting your numbers. Our truck is rated by GMC to safely tow up to 23,300 lbs.

Well once again your research failed you! Not so much what you can pull, you need to be able to carry the pin weight. A 23,300# 5er tandem axle would have about a 4,500# pin, likely more than the listed payload on your yellow sticker.
My 2016 Ram 3500 is rated between 25,000# to 28,000# don’t have the chart right now, but I would be hard pressed to carry the pin of a 28,000# tandem axle 5er, even with a 5,411# payload.

[cookinwitdiesel]

Well once again your research failed you! Not so much what you can pull, you need to be able to carry the pin weight. A 23,300# 5er tandem axle would have about a 4,500# pin, likely more than the listed payload on your yellow sticker.

My 2016 Ram 3500 is rated between 25,000# to 28,000# don’t have the chart right now, but I would be hard pressed to carry the pin of a 28,000# tandem axle 5er, even with a 5,411# payload.You would also be very hard pressed to find a 5er that weighs even 23k pounds. Most top out around 17k with triple axle you haulers going up to 20k. Which is why the GM is fine despite it's lower rating.

[Frederick]

I have pulled all my 5th wheels with F-250 then the F-350 6.7 D SRD and have had no problems the DRW dont fit well in some parking areas cant use the car wash just my opinion but I only pull with the Ford brand 6.7 D is the best of the bunch

[Laredo Tugger]

OK Boys,
The "my truck is better" verbiage is not productive.
As far as I am concerned, everyone on here has the perfect TV, why? Because it is theirs and they own every aspect of it's performance. If they are happy,safe and legal that's all that matters. Right?
Not worth it to argue over tow numbers,motor performance or transmissions.
If someone is happy with his rig,great.
How many times have you heard the perfect TV has a Ford suspension, a Chevy transmission (Allison) and a Ram motor (Cummings) ?
So there. We all own one third of a perfect tow vehicle.
BRB Rig congrats on your "new" DRW.
RMc

[notanlines]

I believe it was some guy named Heywood who said “The most deluded people are those who choose to ignore what they already know.”
Telling the owners they haven’t enough truck usually just hurts their little feelings. But some will take it to heart and be safer.

[Badbart56]

I think it's safe to say that any of the big three's Duallys from around 2011 and up are quite capable. Brand is really a matter of preference or owner loyalty.

And if my Ford can't handle the job, my work truck is a 2019 Freightliner Cascadia with 455 hp and 1750 ft/lbs of torque with a 12 speed transmission.....:D

[penra]

Both will work! The question is what percent of the time are you going to tow the 5th wheel? If that is a low number, then a SRW makes sense. And you will not have this issue.

What percent of traveling equates with DRW?

[rhagfo]

I think it's safe to say that any of the big three's Duallys from around 2011 and up are quite capable. Brand is really a matter of preference or owner loyalty.

And if my Ford can't handle the job, my work truck is a 2019 Freightliner Cascadia with 455 hp and 1750 ft/lbs of torque with a 12 speed transmission.....:D

Well not exactly 2011, talking DRW.
I know my dates will not be perfect, but I believe that Ford was the first to get to or very close to the 14,000# cap on the Class 3 trucks. I think they got there with the introduction of the 6.7 PSD about 2010.
Next was GM and likely about the same time 2010 or 2011 likely the step to 13,025# GVWR.
Ram stayed at a 12,300# Max GVWR until 2013, even though they had a fully boxed frame starting in 2003.
If I remember correctly the Ram 3500 DRW was left out of the FLT Ike towing test for a year or two, as the other two had much higher GVWR and towing ratings.
Now it is GM's turn to be the one playing catch up.
Come 2020 all of the big three will have a 14,000# GVWR on their 3500 DRW, then the battle will be Payload and towing rating (POWER).

So unless the class ratings are changed the manufactures will need to be finding ways to build a stronger lighter TV. I expect to see manufactures to use more aluminum, plastics, and composites in the bodies and beds, and stronger metals in the frame and running gear.
With a 5th wheel puck system, the bed of my Ram could be made out of plastic and not affect the hitch.

Then there is the ford F450, Ford has it classified as a Class 3 truck, Max GVWR 14,000# so for equal trim levels the F450 has less payload than the F350. While it has stronger tires, bigger brakes etc. it has a lower GVWR, just basically forcing owners to exceed the GVWR to use the F450 to it's capacity.


Just my thoughts.

[24vctd]

Laredo, tugged I don’t think he was saying my tucks better than your truck ,just that he likes fords, somebody has to.��

[rhagfo]

Both will work! The question is what percent of the time are you going to tow the 5th wheel? If that is a low number, then a SRW makes sense. And you will not have this issue.

What percent of traveling equates with DRW?

Snoking has an issue with a BIG TV. He went from a 2500 regular cab LB to 3500 CC SB and gained 18". We went from a Ram 2500 Quad Cab long bed to a Ram 3500 CC LB DRW and gained about 12" maybe.
We full time and both drive the DRW, DW will take to town on her own no issue. Just last Friday we went to the grocery store, coming down the row each of the empty spaces had a little planter in it, which I didn't want to deal with. well 3rd spot from the front, bingo no planter, backed right in!! You don't need to park in the south 40!

Front bumpers are even.

https://i.imgur.com/EyUB1tD.jpg

[cookinwitdiesel]

Personally I hate when people say "it will be ok to do X because I only tow Y miles a couple times a year" - safe is safe and unsafe is unsafe whether for 2 hours or 200. You will have more exposure and risk in a longer scenario but the same problem is there regardless of duration of use.

[Snoking]

Personally I hate when people say "it will be ok to do X because I only tow Y miles a couple times a year" - safe is safe and unsafe is unsafe whether for 2 hours or 200. You will have more exposure and risk in a longer scenario but the same problem is there regardless of duration of use.

So do you consider it unsafe to tow at or close to a manufactures rating?

[cookinwitdiesel]

Having reserve is always preferred - but even up to the manufacturer ratings I would not make someone wrong for.

I see people say things like "I will be over but it is ok because we only drive 150 miles 2 times a year" - that is more what I was referring to.

[Snoking]

Well not exactly 2011, talking DRW.
I know my dates will not be perfect, but I believe that Ford was the first to get to or very close to the 14,000# cap on the Class 3 trucks. I think they got there with the introduction of the 6.7 PSD about 2010.
Next was GM and likely about the same time 2010 or 2011 likely the step to 13,025# GVWR.
Ram stayed at a 12,300# Max GVWR until 2013, even though they had a fully boxed frame starting in 2003.
If I remember correctly the Ram 3500 DRW was left out of the FLT Ike towing test for a year or two, as the other two had much higher GVWR and towing ratings.
Now it is GM's turn to be the one playing catch up.
Come 2020 all of the big three will have a 14,000# GVWR on their 3500 DRW, then the battle will be Payload and towing rating (POWER).

So unless the class ratings are changed the manufactures will need to be finding ways to build a stronger lighter TV. I expect to see manufactures to use more aluminum, plastics, and composites in the bodies and beds, and stronger metals in the frame and running gear.
With a 5th wheel puck system, the bed of my Ram could be made out of plastic and not affect the hitch.

Then there is the ford F450, Ford has it classified as a Class 3 truck, Max GVWR 14,000# so for equal trim levels the F450 has less payload than the F350. While it has stronger tires, bigger brakes etc. it has a lower GVWR, just basically forcing owners to exceed the GVWR to use the F450 to it's capacity.


Just my thoughts.

I think you have it wrong, GM was left out because of low ratings. Chris

[Snoking]

Having reserve is always preferred - but even up to the manufacturer ratings I would not make someone wrong for.

I see people say things like "I will be over but it is ok because we only drive 150 miles 2 times a year" - that is more what I was referring to.

Our 5th wheels both share a 16K GVWR and yours is a foot longer. I however could not tow yours with my SRW truck as it was setup and loaded for full timing for a year and a half.

Reason.

Your trailer has a dry pin weight 2900 pounds and would put me over my RGAWR.

I choose a trailer that had a 2435 dry pin weight knowing that anything much more than that would put me over the rear axle rating. We traveled heavy. Truck weighed 8900 ready to tow and 24500 combined. We made two round trips to Arizona with this combination with lots of cross winds on 93 in the middle of Nv and VERY strong winds from Yuma to San Diego on I-8.

When younger I drove a Chevy Titan 90 class 8 day cab tractor that weighed 15K and had 65K of trailer and gasoline behind me. So 8.9k truck and 15.6K trailer did not seem bad.

Chris

[Roscommon48]

Boy, lots of input for a simple question. You do NOT need a dually. A SRW will do you just fine.
More importantly, if this becomes you primarily vehicle you'll like the SRW.


Heck, if you are looking at a new chevy 2019 why don't you wait for the 2020...major weight changes.

[rhagfo]

I think you have it wrong, GM was left out because of low ratings. Chris

No I am pretty sure it was at least the 2012 test that Ram still with a Max GVWR of 12,300# and a max tow rating of around 20,150#. The DRW max payload was 4,690#.

[Snoking]

No I am pretty sure it was at least the 2012 test that Ram still with a Max GVWR of 12,300# and a max tow rating of around 20,150#. The DRW max payload was 4,690#.

Well maybe it was after that the GM was sidelined for tests, as their GCWR was much lower than Ford's and RAM's and the tow tests they were doing. I do not recall seeing sidelined for GVWR issues. Most these mountain tests deal with trailer and combined weight, not the TV GVWR. They tow goose neck trailers where pin/hitch weight is not as big as a deal as with large 5th wheels.

Chris

[travelin texans]

Boy, lots of input for a simple question. You do NOT need a dually. A SRW will do you just fine.
More importantly, if this becomes you primarily vehicle you'll like the SRW.


Heck, if you are looking at a new chevy 2019 why don't you wait for the 2020...major weight changes.

For the OP a SRW MIGHT work, but to say that it WILL is probably not the best advice. Needs to look at all the numbers for the truck & rv that HE has or is getting to best determine whether it "WILL be just fine".
Also as has been mentioned over & over, dry weights mean absolutely nothing once that rv has left the factory, they shouldn't be listed anywhere, they just cause confusion. All weights should be calculated from the GVWs of each particular rv.

[Laredo Tugger]

Post #40 the OP states he is going to get a dually. Which brand? I could care less. He is going to be as prepared and safe as he can for his towing experience. No one can fault him for that.
For his question "does he need a dually?" I would say yes for that trailer he has. Is that set in stone? No, I am sure there are some out there towing that trailer with a 2500 SRW, and think they are just fine
Freedom does have some missteps sometimes.
RMc

[NotyetMHCowner]

The original question is "Do I really need a dually?" Once you define the word "need" you will have your answer. Some would only use the legal aspects to the word "need". Some would use the comfort level of towing to meet their "need".

I for one tow with a dually because I like the comfort level of knowing that I have an extra set of sidewalls out back to keep the truck planted on the pavement with such a heavy payload. My trailer weight is 13,600 and can legally be towed with a SRW truck, but I decided I needed a dually, and I have never looked back. By the way, it has been my daily driver for over 4 years.

[FlyingChief]

I’ve towed the same 5er with both an SRW and a DRW. The DRW has now been my daily driver for more than 4 years. I won’t get into the numbers because you can do that yourself. Instead I can just talk about my experience, because that won’t necessarily show up in the numbers.

First, the DRW feels more stable and planted when towing. I can’t feel a crosswind unless it is severe and I don’t feel or see the trailer being pushed (sway) by the bow wave of passing semis. It is a much more relaxing drive - both on the freeway when we are getting passed and on those severe weather days. Personally, that alone is worth it.

Second, as a daily driver in a dense suburban area, I haven’t had a problem with parking. I often park farther out in lots, but I do the same thing with my car, to avoid door dings. Besides, a little exercise is good for me! I rarely park along the curb, but when I do, I am careful to use the mirrors to put the rear tire very close to the curb and I’ve never had a problem. I will say that the single biggest convenience item in my truck is the electric folding mirrors. I stow them all the time when parked so they don’t stick out and to prevent other folks from walking in to them.

Two inconveniences that I can’t get around. One, I can’t use most drive-thrus (Starbucks, burger joints, etc). Sometimes I wish I could just swing in and grab something, but it just won’t work most of the time. The other is that it is a beast to wash -either myself or I pay someone I do it. My solution? I got silver which doesn’t show dirt (although I love a black truck!).

Finally, my first and last thought every time I set out....and my last words I the wife when she takes the truck to run an errand...”mind the hips”.

I’m an analyzer, too, so I hope some of these intangibles are helpful.

[Snoking]

I’ve towed the same 5er with both an SRW and a DRW. The DRW has now been my daily driver for more than 4 years.

You did not state what year your SRW truck was, however the latest generation on SRW 350/3500 trucks our not your grandfathers SRW TV. All three up their game a lot, RAM in 2013, Ford in 2017? and GM 201?. Bigger stronger frames, hitches that attach directly to the frame rails, 18 or 20" tires etc etc.

And mine while in Az drives right through the car wash on a monthly pass for 19 bucks/month. So about 5 bucks a wash.

[mcomeaux]

FlyingChief well spoken. All anyone has to do is the numbers. Numbers don't lie. Liability and comfort lays with the user.

[travelin texans]

[QUOTE=Snoking;347183]You did not state what year your SRW truck was, however the latest generation on SRW 350/3500 trucks our not your grandfathers SRW TV. All three up their game a lot, RAM in 2013, Ford in 2017? and GM 201?. Bigger stronger frames, hitches that attach directly to the frame rails, 18 or 20" tires etc etc.

And mine while in Az drives right through the car wash on a monthly pass for 19 bucks/month. So about 5 bucks takecaUOTE]
I assume your taking the SRW through the car wash? Been all across the country & only found 1 drive thru carwash that allowed DRW trucks.

[Snoking]

Yes SRW. Chris

[roadglide]

I’m so thankful I didn’t buy a dully . We where coming into elkmont Smokey mountains exhausted and using the gps my bad . I took a left over a ten foot bridge at hair pin curve up against the mountain and bridge that been hit and tore up from previous big rigs. I’m saying with a dully I would have destroyed it after I got through it . Having a dully would limit me and cause more accidents and headache then the safety it offers.

[rhagfo]

I’m so thankful I didn’t buy a dully . We where coming into elkmont Smokey mountains exhausted and using the gps my bad . I took a left over a ten foot bridge at hair pin curve up against the mountain and bridge that been hit and tore up from previous big rigs. I’m saying with a dully I would have destroyed it after I got through it . Having a dully would limit me and cause more accidents and headache then the safety it offers.

No you will never be able to drive a dually, surprised you drive what you have because you have convinced yourself it just so huge!!
They are not much larger than a standard 3500 just wider at the hips, no wider than your trailer. On a 10’ bridge I would have had 1’ on each side lots of room.
My DW drives ours all time without issue, DD drives here a lot and tows 4 horse GN trailer with living quarters.

[sonofcy]

I’m so thankful I didn’t buy a dully . We where coming into elkmont Smokey mountains exhausted and using the gps my bad . I took a left over a ten foot bridge at hair pin curve up against the mountain and bridge that been hit and tore up from previous big rigs. I’m saying with a dully I would have destroyed it after I got through it . Having a dully would limit me and cause more accidents and headache then the safety it offers.
My fifth wheel is a Keystone Montana 3811MS. It is 40'9" long and 8' wide. My DUALLY is also 8' wide with the power mirrors folded in. That 10 ft road would leave 1' on either side of the truck and trailer. However, I would have used google street view or google earth to determine if it was safe to go there. I don't like surprises. As far as I know truck makers can NOT make a truck that is wider than a lane of traffic. We have laws about that sort of thing up here. I drive it daily in a place that favours small cars so I sometimes need to park further away but it will outturn almost all other trucks due to the wide track. My previous F150 was much harder to maneuver.

[Laredo Tugger]

No you will never be able to drive a dually, surprised you drive what you have because you have convinced yourself it just so huge!!
They are not much larger than a standard 3500 just wider at the hips, no wider than your trailer. On a 10’ bridge I would have had 1’ on each side lots of room.
My DW drives ours all time without issue, DD drives here a lot and tows 4 horse GN trailer with living quarters.

What? Come on man. Everyone is entitled to a mistake and an opinion. Nobody plans to put themselves into challenging situations. If somebody is full timing I would hope that they are confident with their equipment. Confidence is huge when navigating any large truck/trailer combo. Anyone can be taught this confidence with time behind the wheel.
RMc

[Roscommon48]

it is all personal preference. if you like the dually, get it. if you like the srw get it.


our truck is the only vehicle we have so I would Never get a dually...they are a pain as far as I can see. I SRW will do just fine.

[sonofcy]

True as long as the weight you are carrying is less than the SRW payload. DRW carries almost double the payload due to two extra tires. I got a 450 for the larger brakes. Any modern diesel will get you up the hill , its the stopping 15 tons that I worry about

[Snoking]

True as long as the weight you are carrying is less than the SRW payload. DRW carries almost double the payload due to two extra tires. I got a 450 for the larger brakes. Any modern diesel will get you up the hill , its the stopping 15 tons that I worry about

You might want to look at actual numbers.

Example:
2015 RAM 4X4 CC Diesel/Aisin LB SRW 3500 has an advertised 4330 payload
2015 RAM 4X4 CC Diesel/Aisin LB DRW 3500 has an advertised 5680 payload

And your 450 has a lower payload than a similar 350, as your 450 is much heavier with the same 14K GVWR.

[sonofcy]

I know but I wanted the bigger brakes and it only cost about $2k more than an identically equipped 350 dually. Waiting 3 months while they built it though was painful especially since the trailer only took 8 weeks

[sonofcy]

The weight difference is because the 450 is built stronger than the 350 dually

[roadglide]

No you will never be able to drive a dually, surprised you drive what you have because you have convinced yourself it just so huge!!
They are not much larger than a standard 3500 just wider at the hips, no wider than your trailer. On a 10’ bridge I would have had 1’ on each side lots of room.
My DW drives ours all time without issue, DD drives here a lot and tows 4 horse GN trailer with living quarters.
Hair pin curve you missed my point . I made it through with in a few inches with sharp turn. I get my toyhuler out of the poll barn around 10 KMiles a year . This trip is right at 6 k when finished . I expect your DW has more skill then because of your negative thinking . Confidence is the key but a Dully will not go where a SRW my point stands firm.

[Javi]

Hair pin curve you missed my point . I made it through with in a few inches with sharp turn. I get my toyhuler out of the poll barn around 10 KMiles a year . This trip is right at 6 k when finished . I expect your DW has more skill then because of your negative thinking . Confidence is the key but a Dully will not go where a SRW my point stands firm.96 inches is 96 inches, 102 inches is 102 inches. If the trailer fits, so does the dually when it comes to width...

Now if you're talking length then it ain't all that applicable to the extra wheels...

[sonofcy]

His point I think was that the DUALLY is exactly the same width as the trailer so if the DUALLY won't go neither will the trailer making the SRW, DRW decision moot.

[roadglide]

His point I think was that the DUALLY is exactly the same width as the trailer so if the DUALLY won't go neither will the trailer making the SRW, DRW decision moot. going straight but I can tell you the SRW will make it through tighter narrow area radius with a fifer then DRW.
That is my point .

[Javi]

Okay I get it... the world is flat..[emoji57]

[roadglide]

Okay I get it... the world is flat..[emoji57]
Correct fifer length is a factor . I missed the sign nothing over 22 foot but the ranger was impressed with my driving skills but not with the damage I did to some tree limbs . I’m glad the mistake took place in Tennessee and not California. I’m just thankful I don’t have a dully.

[rhagfo]

it is all personal preference. if you like the dually, get it. if you like the srw get it.


our truck is the only vehicle we have so I would Never get a dually...they are a pain as far as I can see. I SRW will do just fine.

Well it is all personal preference, there is a point which a 5er becomes too much for a SRW.
Our DRW is also our only vehicle, no it isn’t a Smart Car, but the more we drive it the smaller it gets. I don’t make it a habit to park in the front row at the grocery store or hardware store, but have done it many times.

[rhagfo]

Yes the turning is noticeably better. The payload on a 450 is less which makes no sense to me.
This is because Ford chooses to classify the F450 as a Class 3 truck with a max GVWR of 14,000#. The truck is stronger than the F350, but Ford states a 14,000GVWR so buyers can get favorable registration and insurance rates, but more or less forcing owners to exceed their GVWR to use as built. Ford does the same with the F350 SRW which can be bought with a GVWR as low as 9,900# up to 2018, haven't looked closely at 2019 specs.

[mwemaxxowner]

My dad has a '19 350 drw. It's a beast of a truck! He hauls a hefty Takeuchi skid steer on a hefty gooseneck trailer with form boards, trowel machines, hand tools etc. loaded up also. It gets surprisingly good fuel mileage while towing and while he dailies it.

229252292622927

[CaptnJohn]

Thanks for posting his stickers. My new F350 dually is supposed to be here on the 3Rd.

[Tbos]

There’s a guy on the Alpine Facebook page that has a pretty new 3500 DRW for sale if anyone is interested.

[hguilford]

Sorry, been away for a while dealing with some "STUFF" but I read everything and take it all with a grain of salt. I will say that I have considered EVERYTHING when deciding on a TV. I guess I should have posted more info, like the fact the DW and I will NEVER be full time RVers and won't ever fully load the 5er. As a matter of fact we only have the essentials in the 5er and the wife ALWAYS drives her SUV when we travel, so that is the vehicle that gets loaded, not the 5er or TV. The other consideration is that the TV is my every day driver and a dually, although great for heavier loads and long hauls, isn't a practical option at this point. The DW won't retire for a few more years so we only travel and camp within a days drive. The A320RS is a comfortable size for the two of us and two small dogs so it is unlikely we will ever upgrade to anything bigger and heavier. If anything we may consider a motorhome rather than upgrading the RV. So, all that said I will keep what I currently have unless or until something major changes. Thanks to all for your input.

[falcondan95705]

Pin weight, filled with people and fuel.. r u over trucks gvwr? Or rear axle ratings.. ? If so on a srw, then yes,,dually..

[falcondan95705]

It's not personal preference..

[JRTJH]

I've stayed out of this discussion specifically because it's way too easy to spend someone else's money. But, I think it's important to bring up a couple of points that may step on some toes, but come directly from GM. The OP's truck is a 2019 Silverado 2500 6.6l diesel. Here's what GM provides for "fifth wheel/gooseneck towing recommendations in the 2019 GM towing guide for ALL 2019 Silverado 2500 models (2wd/4wd/long bed/short bed versions):

6.0 Vortec (4.10) 2WD SB 14300 LB 14200 4WD SB 14000 LB 13900
6.0 Vortec (3.73) 2WD SB 9800 LB 9700 4WD SB 9500 LB 9400

The Silverado 2500 6.6l diesel is not rated to tow a fifth wheel/gooseneck trailer (there are -- -- -- -- on all the rating categories)

Also, there is a note regarding payload that states: " The weight of any additional equipment and all passengers must be subtracted from the payload weight to determine the maximum kingpin load available."

https://www.chevrolet.com/content/dam/chevrolet/na/us/english/index/shopping-tools/download-catalog/02-pdf/2019-chevrolet-trailering-guide.pdf

I'm not wanting to "open a can of worms" but the 2019 Silverado 2500 diesel is not rated (by the manufacturer) to tow anything but a conventional travel trailer.

Also, possibly not related to this specific vehicle/trailer/hitch combination, there is also this comment:

"Follow the manufacturer’s directions for installation, but note that the hitch must be attached to the truck frame. Do not use the pickup bed for additional support. For proper kingpin tongue load distribution and control of the trailer, the hitch must be mounted so the kingpin load is placed over, or slightly in front of, the rear axle centerline."

I would question whether this is intended to exclude "gooseneck hitches that connect to the gooseneck ball and rely on the truck bed to stabilize the hitch? and also to exclude those hitches that sit the trailer connection behind the centerline of the rear axle? I can't (won't) suggest that it does, but I can't suggest that it isn't intended to exclude that type of "gooseneck connection for fifth wheel trailers"...

NOTE: The underlined phrases are my "added emphasis" to identify concern, not copied from the GM Towing Guide.

[hguilford]

I can't believe what I am seeing in this tow guide. I have seen a different tow chart and was told the max 5th wheel tow rating for this truck is 15,400. The 2018 2500HD with the 6.0L gas engine is rated at 14,200 so how can a 2019 2500HD with the 6.6L Duramax not be rated to carry a 5er at all? There has to be a reasonable explanation and I'm certainly going to speak with the owner of my dealership first thing tomorrow. For crying out loud they even installed the hitch for me! Thanks for pointing this out, John, but this has to be a mistake.

[JRTJH]

I would HOPE it's a mistake, but there has been a lot of "manufacturer reluctance" to fifth wheel towing with limited payload. If I remember, both Ford and GM did not rate their half ton models for fifth wheel towing around the 2005-2011 years. Part of that was the 5' bed limitations, but the lack of towing weight listings was across the model range, even with the 6.5' and 8' bed.

I was composing my response to this thread and had "planned on highlighting the reduced payload with the diesel engine and the 10K payload cap. I was honestly "shocked" to see that GM didn't include any fifth wheel/gooseneck tow capacity ratings for any diesel powered 2500 truck. GM even had a footnote in the half ton chart saying something like, "GM does not recommend fifth wheel/gooseneck towing with the 1500 series trucks". That changed with later models.

Hopefully there is an updated GM towing guide that does include that data, but what I saw in the guide at the link I provided was "shocking, to say the least"....

[hguilford]

I tried to chat with GM online but they weren't much help. Although the dealership was already closed I sent a personal email to the owner. I have purchased my last 4 trucks from them so we know each other well and I am very interested in what they have to say.

[sourdough]

I would HOPE it's a mistake, but there has been a lot of "manufacturer reluctance" to fifth wheel towing with limited payload. If I remember, both Ford and GM did not rate their half ton models for fifth wheel towing around the 2005-2011 years. Part of that was the 5' bed limitations, but the lack of towing weight listings was across the model range, even with the 6.5' and 8' bed.

I was composing my response to this thread and had "planned on highlighting the reduced payload with the diesel engine and the 10K payload cap. I was honestly "shocked" to see that GM didn't include any fifth wheel/gooseneck tow capacity ratings for any diesel powered 2500 truck. GM even had a footnote in the half ton chart saying something like, "GM does not recommend fifth wheel/gooseneck towing with the 1500 series trucks". That changed with later models.

Hopefully there is an updated GM towing guide that does include that data, but what I saw in the guide at the link I provided was "shocking, to say the least"....


As I was trying top respond to another poster in another thread I found that GMs lack of information, and even ambiguity, was disturbing. I think as the big 3 try to outdo each other on all these payload/towing specs GM just wants to "wing it ?" and let folks hang and wonder? They have always been very vague and non specific when trying to post numbers (in recent years)...."read an advertisement", but now that we have reached the numbers for the current HD trucks....they need to up their game or let folks assume they aren't in it. JMO

[cookinwitdiesel]

The new gen HD GM trucks literally have their towing numbers on the door sticker. This is a 3500HD Denali Diesel SRW. The 2500s have the same sticker with vehicle specific numbers

24824

[hguilford]

That makes perfect sense and should be mandated for all truck manufacturers. It takes all the guesswork out of this and would give us something else to cuss and discuss, like China Bombs!

[JRTJH]

That makes perfect sense and should be mandated for all truck manufacturers. It takes all the guesswork out of this and would give us something else to cuss and discuss, like China Bombs!

LOL Yes, I agree. However GM "advertises this towing decal on the driver's door" as a "class exclusive feature"... Apparently they beat Ford and Fiat/Chrysler to the punch this time....

If it's any consolation, the GMC towing guide for 2019 does list fifth wheel towing limits. I'm convinced that the omission was either an intentional "don't want to talk about it" or an honest mistake in not publishing the data.... At least the towing numbers are available for a "similar vehicle with a different grill"....

[sourdough]

I like that sticker. Looks to me like they cut max tongue wt. vs payload pretty close but that's the game anymore...

[hguilford]

Yeah, I found multiple tow charts that show no less than 14,400 and some as much as 15,400 so I'm sure I will be okay. Just to be safe, this is my next TV.

24828

[sourdough]

Yeah, I found multiple tow charts that show no less than 14,400 and some as much as 15,400 so I'm sure I will be okay. Just to be safe, this is my next TV.

24828



That looks a little lightweight. Maybe you need a big dually???:lol::lol::lol:

[hguilford]

UPDATE: GM and dealership both are telling me 12,400 lbs for my truck. I finally found the website I originally looked at back in November to justify buying this truck. It confirms what I was saying all along. 15,400 lbs for 5th wheel/gooseneck towing. There are no asterisks, no footnotes, no nothing! That is the justification I used to convince my wife to let me upgrade to this truck. The link is named, "SILVERADO BY THE NUMBERS" and is a link directly from the Chevrolet.com site for the 2019 and 2020 Silverado HD trucks. I'm very interested to hear what GM and the dealership have to say about this tomorrow!

[JRTJH]

I'm interested to hear what they have to say as well. I'm guessing that somewhere in the 2020 model year website updates, the 2019 info got moved around and the "valid info" got deleted, someone updated with a draft copy and what we see is the results...

Hopefully there's some hard copy towing guides still around in a dealership office and they can get you the "what we put on the street last year" info in print copy.

Keep us posted on what the dealership has to say....

[sourdough]

I believe you upgraded to a 2019 2500 Diesel Silverado? Looking at the pic it appears to be a crew cab, regular box, 4x4? If so the attached chart shows the payload at 2513 and a max tow of 13500 for 5th wheel. IF it is a 4x2 the numbers change to 15400 for 5th wheel/goose neck as you've been looking for but the payload is still only 2803. Not enough IMO for a 15000lb. 5th wheel and I'm sure the reason for the original question of "do I need a dually". Scroll down to the payload and trailer weight rating page....on down there a ways.

https://cdn.dealereprocess.org/cdn/brochures/chevrolet/2019-silverado2500hd.pdf

From memory I believe the dry weight of that trailer was like 11500 - dry weight alone would be too much for either of those trucks to me weight wise, not pulling.

[cookinwitdiesel]

I believe you upgraded to a 2019 2500 Diesel Silverado? Looking at the pic it appears to be a crew cab, regular box, 4x4? If so the attached chart shows the payload at 2513 and a max tow of 13500 for 5th wheel. IF it is a 4x2 the numbers change to 15400 for 5th wheel/goose neck as you've been looking for but the payload is still only 2803. Not enough IMO for a 15000lb. 5th wheel and I'm sure the reason for the original question of "do I need a dually". Scroll down to the payload and trailer weight rating page....on down there a ways.

https://cdn.dealereprocess.org/cdn/brochures/chevrolet/2019-silverado2500hd.pdf

From memory I believe the dry weight of that trailer was like 11500 - dry weight alone would be too much for either of those trucks to me.2513 will be a base trim, for a Denali/High Country, subtract another 300# from that payload. I made that mistake - trusting the literature too much.

[sourdough]

2513 will be a base trim, for a Denali/High Country, subtract another 300# from that payload. I made that mistake - trusting the literature too much.

Yes, I am aware. The sticker on THE truck will tell the tale but this at least sort of addresses the OPs concerns about the 15400 rating etc......I think.

[cookinwitdiesel]

I can wholeheartedly say for a trailer that heavy, a DRW is needed. A lighter fifth would be a SRW 1 ton. A 2500HD is just not fit for fifth wheel duty. It can work for pretty much any bumper pull but then also, the 3500 will do better.

[Jim2366]

I went through the same thought process. I had owned a Ford F350 diesel SW short bed and pulled a 35 Heartland Bighorn. Sold it with 175,000 miles and although it pulled great the 6.0 was horrible for fuel injectors.

My reason for getting the long bed dually was for stability. I have just driven it for 2,000 miles and take some time getting used to the moveability. Would I make the same choice again... yes!

[hguilford]

UPDATE: What a tangled web we weave! :( Okay, to clarify my 2500 is a long bed 4WD and empty wt is listed as 11,530. I haven't put it on a scale but with minimal stuff we've added I may be just a little over 12,000. Yesterday I spent almost an hour on the phone with Chevrolet. The CSR came back with a tow limit of 12,400 lbs. Called the dealership and spoke with a low level sales manager who was no help at all. So this morning I went to the dealership and was shown the tow chart that Chevrolet sends to all the dealerships for the sales staff to use. It shows tow limit is 13,500 lbs. :) That's a little better but still in conflict with what GM and Chevrolet said. Went to the lead dog, general sales manager, and explained my situation. He and my sales consultant went to a computer and found another completely separate tow chart from what the sales staff has been using and it also showed a tow limit of 12,400 lbs. :facepalm: WHAT A CAN OF WORMS! :dizzy: So, where do we go from here? Bottom line - I can't/won't be able to use this truck to tow my 5er. The dealership is working with GM for a solution and once they have something we WILL get this resolved. In the meantime I have let them know I will most likely be filing a consumer complaint against GM/Chevrolet with my state Attorney General for false and misleading advertising, given all the conflicting data that's at the dealership, online at Chevrolet.com, etc. Hopefully they will clean this up and I won't have to go that far. No wonder this is such a hot topic on this site. Unless the 2020 data is also tainted I feel a 3500HD SRW will be more than adequate for my 5er, but to avoid any future heart ache and sleepless nights I may opt for a 3500 dually after all. Don't anyone dare say I told you so!! :lol: More to follow.

[JRTJH]

What a bucket of "stuff" to carry..... Hopefully GM can get all their stories on the same page (or at least in the same booklet)… When I saw that "official GM link to the 2019 towing guide and all the data was "zeroed out" I thought, Oh boy, here we go.…

Keep your chin up, who knows, this might work out to your benefit if GM wants to avoid the issues of trying to explain their mistakes.... Good Luck and keep us posted (unless they require you to sign a "no disclosure agreement") LOL

[sourdough]

UPDATE: What a tangled web we weave! :( Okay, to clarify my 2500 is a long bed 4WD and empty wt is listed as 11,530. I haven't put it on a scale but with minimal stuff we've added I may be just a little over 12,000. Yesterday I spent almost an hour on the phone with Chevrolet. The CSR came back with a tow limit of 12,400 lbs. Called the dealership and spoke with a low level sales manager who was no help at all. So this morning I went to the dealership and was shown the tow chart that Chevrolet sends to all the dealerships for the sales staff to use. It shows tow limit is 13,500 lbs. :) That's a little better but still in conflict with what GM and Chevrolet said. Went to the lead dog, general sales manager, and explained my situation. He and my sales consultant went to a computer and found another completely separate tow chart from what the sales staff has been using and it also showed a tow limit of 12,400 lbs. :facepalm: WHAT A CAN OF WORMS! :dizzy: So, where do we go from here? Bottom line - I can't/won't be able to use this truck to tow my 5er. The dealership is working with GM for a solution and once they have something we WILL get this resolved. In the meantime I have let them know I will most likely be filing a consumer complaint against GM/Chevrolet with my state Attorney General for false and misleading advertising, given all the conflicting data that's at the dealership, online at Chevrolet.com, etc. Hopefully they will clean this up and I won't have to go that far. No wonder this is such a hot topic on this site. Unless the 2020 data is also tainted I feel a 3500HD SRW will be more than adequate for my 5er, but to avoid any future heart ache and sleepless nights I may opt for a 3500 dually after all. Don't anyone dare say I told you so!! :lol: More to follow.


The highlighted statement above is the downfall of so many folks. It has nothing to do with "how you feel", "it pulls like a train" etc. I has to do with the numbers posted inside your driver door that you have yet to disclose despite request. I think that more or less tells the tale....you are convinced the max tow weight is the definition of what you can tow. Believe me it is not and it is foolish to ignore all the other, more important numbers. I "feel like I can fly"....but I'm not going to exercise that "thought" because it would be foolish. Just something to think about. Buying a truck that isn't fit for the job is a common occurrence for RV owners - they sell DRW.:)

[Snoking]

Hguilford, your statement "my 2500 is a long bed 4WD and empty wt is listed as 11,530. I haven't put it on a scale but with minimal stuff we've added it may be just a little over 12,000" is so far out there as to be ridiculous. What in the world would make you believe that truck weighs 11,530 lbs?

I think the 11,530 referred to his trailer, dry weight of 320RS is 11,513 with CC of 3487. So trailers GVWR is 15K. Most new 350/3500 could make their number with this trailer that has a listed dry pin weight of 2275. Any 2019 or earlier 250/2500 is going to be way over the TV GVWR and most likely the RGAWR when the trailer is loaded up. For 2020 GM and I now hear Ford also are pushing ratings on 250/2500 beyond the class 2 truck division line.

[Roscommon48]

This thread could last forever. By now I hope the guy has made a decision on what he wants.

[rhagfo]

UPDATE: What a tangled web we weave! :( Okay, to clarify my 2500 is a long bed 4WD and empty wt is listed as 11,530. I haven't put it on a scale but with minimal stuff we've added I may be just a little over 12,000. Yesterday I spent almost an hour on the phone with Chevrolet. The CSR came back with a tow limit of 12,400 lbs. Called the dealership and spoke with a low level sales manager who was no help at all. So this morning I went to the dealership and was shown the tow chart that Chevrolet sends to all the dealerships for the sales staff to use. It shows tow limit is 13,500 lbs. :) That's a little better but still in conflict with what GM and Chevrolet said. Went to the lead dog, general sales manager, and explained my situation. He and my sales consultant went to a computer and found another completely separate tow chart from what the sales staff has been using and it also showed a tow limit of 12,400 lbs. :facepalm: WHAT A CAN OF WORMS! :dizzy: So, where do we go from here? Bottom line - I can't/won't be able to use this truck to tow my 5er. The dealership is working with GM for a solution and once they have something we WILL get this resolved. In the meantime I have let them know I will most likely be filing a consumer complaint against GM/Chevrolet with my state Attorney General for false and misleading advertising, given all the conflicting data that's at the dealership, online at Chevrolet.com, etc. Hopefully they will clean this up and I won't have to go that far. No wonder this is such a hot topic on this site. Unless the 2020 data is also tainted I feel a 3500HD SRW will be more than adequate for my 5er, but to avoid any future heart ache and sleepless nights I may opt for a 3500 dually after all. Don't anyone dare say I told you so!! :lol: More to follow.

Well what I can't believe is that after all the input from many members told you many times minimum 3500 SRW, yet you chose to buy a 2500! :facepalm:

You appear to only look at the one number MAX Tow, Not payload, Not axle rating, and not tire rating, only what it will PULL, not what it will carry. It would be interesting to see the Vin and payload stickers on your new TV.

[JRTJH]

This thread could last forever. By now I hope the guy has made a decision on what he wants.

Ahhh, NO..... hguilford stated, at 9:47 PM last night, in post #123 in this thread that he is still working with his dealership and GM to find a remedy for his problem. So far, he has not made any final decision about what he'll be hitching his trailer to, but does have the current 2500 diesel which he hoped would be rated high enough to do the job and is finding out that the "brochure claims" printed by Chevrolet/GM are much more "boastful" then the door sticker on his truck.

So, the saga continues with no resolution and the only decision he currently has made is the decision that his dealership and Chevrolet aren't on the same page with all their documentation.

[JRTJH]

Well what I can't believe is that after all the input from many members told you many times minimum 3500 SRW, yet you chose to buy a 2500! :facepalm:

You appear to only look at the one number MAX Tow, Not payload, Not axle rating, and not tire rating, only what it will PULL, not what it will carry. It would be interesting to see the Vin and payload stickers on your new TV.

Here's my "take on the situation" and I could be completely off base, but as I understand the situation, the OP relied on the brochure information to "justify" max trailer towing capacity" without verifying any specific vehicle data. To date, I don't believe anyone has seen the actual GVW, PAYLOAD, RAWR/FAWR on his specific truck. He's not yet posted that information (that I can find) and I believe he's working/making his decisions based on the "boastful GM brochure" to validate that his truck is adequate to tow (and carry the pin load) of his trailer....

The downfall, as most of us realize, is that his 2500 is rated to "pull 15,400 pounds" but is not rated to "carry the pin" greater than (unknown because we don't have his payload sticker info). So we're all "guessing" that he's going to be overloaded, and in reality, we're all "in the right ball park" but he (the OP) has not yet posted the information we need (door sticker on HIS truck) for verification....

You, me, and almost everyone that has responded has stated that his 2500 is not rated high (strong) enough to carry the pin and it's irrelevant that it is rated high enough to pull the weight...

If he uses this truck (based on believing a salesman at the dealership) then he's going to "pull the overweight trailer with a truck not rated for that capacity".... Result: He'll be just fine until either something breaks and Chevrolet refuses warranty because of operator error (overloading the truck) or until he's involved in an accident and gets sued by an injured party in civil court... If neither of those happens, he'll be "just fine as a pig in the mud" but, every inch of pavement he pulls over is an inch of vulnerability that if anything goes wrong, he's SCREWED...…

I hope he gets it right, and yes, like everyone else so far, I strongly believe that his trailer is much too big for a Chevrolet 2500 diesel (payload and RAWR) and he's honestly in the dually range as a 3500 SRW will be "barely adequate if he loads light on every trip. He needs a dually for that trailer, but I don't know how to convince him (hasn't been done in over 125 posts) of that simple fact.

[Snoking]

Ahhh, NO..... hguilford stated, at 9:47 PM last night, in post #123 in this thread that he is still working with his dealership and GM to find a remedy for his problem. So far, he has not made any final decision about what he'll be hitching his trailer to, but does have the current 2500 diesel which he hoped would be rated high enough to do the job and is finding out that the "brochure claims" printed by Chevrolet/GM are much more "boastful" then the door sticker on his truck.

So, the saga continues with no resolution and the only decision he currently has made is the decision that his dealership and Chevrolet aren't on the same page with all their documentation.

It is pretty simple from GM stand point on a 2019 2500HD 4x4 LB with a 10K GVWR, the even the dry pin weight of 2275 plus a hitch will put the truck over it's GVWR and listed CC of 2356 lbs. Curb weight is listed at 7620 lbs, however up trim levels weigh more.

[Snoking]

I hope he gets it right, and yes, like everyone else so far, I strongly believe that his trailer is much too big for a Chevrolet 2500 diesel (payload and RAWR) and he's honestly in the dually range as a 3500 SRW will be "barely adequate if he loads light on every trip. He needs a dually for that trailer, but I don't know how to convince him (hasn't been done in over 125 posts) of that simple fact.

For the 2019 Chevy 3500 SRW 4x4 that has a 11,600 GVWR, and 7050 RGAWR. With the 320RL lighter pin weight of 2275, he could tow this trailer, provided me does not have a w/d and generator in the front.

I have been there, and have the hat, T-shirt and merit badge for newer SRW 350/3500's. 16K 5th wheel loaded for full timing for two years. Dry pin weight was 2435. Chris

[notanlines]

Snoking. I believe you are correct. Had me wondering for awhile...:eek:

[JRTJH]

It is pretty simple from GM stand point on a 2019 2500HD 4x4 LB with a 10K GVWR, the even the dry pin weight of 2275 plus a hitch will put the truck over it's GVWR and listed CC of 2356 lbs. Curb weight is listed at 7620 lbs, however up trim levels weigh more.

The problem is this: The GM data is conflicting. In one brochure, GM says the truck is rated to "TOW" (not carry) 15,400 pounds, in another brochure, GM states the truck is rated to "TOW" (not carry) 12,400 pounds and in another brochure, GM states the truck is "NOT RATED" to tow a fifth wheel, only a conventional trailer. So, it's not a matter if whether it's rated to tow so much as the question is "which brochure is correct" ????

My impression is that the OP does not yet fully understand the differences between GVWR, GCWR, RAWR, FAWR, PAYLOAD, MAX TRAILER WEIGHT.... He appears to be relying ONLY on TRAILER GVWR and MAX TRAILER WEIGHT and is ignoring all the other limitations on his truck.

The conflicting brochures add to his confusion, making it harder to comprehend his limitations. To date, the door sticker, applicable to HIS TRUCK, seems to be ignored, also adding to his confusion since he's relying on "conflicting brochures" not "actual ratings on HIS truck"....

[flybouy]

So here's my take. The OP asked if his truck was "appropriate" for the load. Everyone said no. Apparently he didn't believe everyone so he returned to the folks that lead hem astray to begin with, the sales staff at the dealership.

He's understandably upset that his interpretation that the "towing capacity" equals the "carrying capacity" of his truck. Now he's hinting at litigation to rectify the situation. Now I'm just guessing here, but I'll bet he's not the first person that didn't read all those fine print footnotes that follow the asterisks in the sales literature, or called the State's Attorney General's office to file a complaint.

If you by a pickup truck and then over load it I'm guessing the onus will be on the user to properly load and operate the vehicle. But that's just my opinion using logic and commonsense as I'm not an attorney.

I wish the OP well in his endeavour and hope he travels safe.

[Snoking]

One has to admit that GM's lack of info on the 2019 model is just short of criminal! No wonder they rate the 2020 2500HD as class 3 trucks. Knock knock, anyone home there at GM?

[sourdough]

Here's the sad truth, irony and aggravation of it all. If one has never towed before, buying a new 3/4 ton diesel truck is like buying a semi. It's BIG. The person thinks it could tow a mountain. Then the manufacturer pours out lots of misleading, if not intentionally incorrect, information that focuses nearly entirely on max tow capacity. The new person focuses on that, and then, what does the RV manufacturer do? They focus on dry weight. All this adds up to not only serious confusion for the buyer but also some serious safety issues. If the only thing you've ever done is drive a car/suv or throw some 2x4s in the back of a pickup, you've never looked at, or cared about, that sticker in the driver door. Then on top of that, to me, GM is the worlds worst at trying to obfuscate the numbers for their trucks - almost like intentional deception. To what end I don't know other than to have a situation like the one illustrated in this thread. I feel for the OP but many have been there knowingly or unknowingly and had to deal with the consequences.

At the end of the day trying to push this back on GM or the dealer won't have any traction. The numbers the OP needs are in the driver door and have been all along. No matter the what the brochure says (or other manufacturer document) they always have disclaimers at the bottom that will relieve them of any responsibility and place it back on the owner to do his own homework. It will be interesting to see how it turns out but I believe we all know how the story ends.....we just don't know if he is going to buy that big trailer....

[flybouy]

This "deception" is nothing new. Did anyone buying an Oldsmobile in the 1950's really think their engines were built for "rockets"?
When Lee Iacocca conceived the "K" car did anyone really think it would "hold 6 adults"?

Fast forward and now people don't have enough common sense to figure out anything it seems and must blame everyone but themselves for their actions. I am by no means defending the manufacturers but there is nothing new about manufacturers, or anyone else seeking to take your money for that matter, exploiting the consumers ignorance. I think this has been accentuated by the electronic age of "just click on the terms of the agreement" without reading it to log on.

LAst observation before stepping down from my soap box. I see this, and many other social problems as a failure of the "family unit" and the school systems to educate the young in "life lessons". So many people leave school, including college, with a mountain of credit card debt, not knowing how to balance their bank accounts, live within their means, or plan financially for the future.

Yes I do have empathy for the OP, yes I do think better laws should be enacted, but until then the old saying "buyer beware" still applies.

[JRTJH]

All this brings to mind the fable about the 3 blindfolded explorers who set out to find an elephant. None had ever seen an elephant so they didn't know what to expect. The first felt the elephant's side, determined that elephants are big and flat, much like a billboard. The second felt the elephant's tail, determined that elephants are built like snakes, the third felt the elephant's ear, determined that they must be shaped like a butterfly....

It wasn't until after they took their blindfolds off that the three explorers truly understood what an elephant looks like.

It's much the same with towing. To take any one factor and base a "whole concept" on that one factor will always "misrepresent the final product"...

It's not until you "see the entire picture" (GVWR, GCWR, RAWR, FAWR, PAYLOAD) that you can understand what towing requires. Like the elephant, each part makes up the whole and no part, by itself, is representative of what the elephant looks like, or what the concept of towing really includes.....

[Snoking]

All this brings to mind the fable about the 3 blindfolded explorers who set out to find an elephant. None had ever seen an elephant so they didn't know what to expect. The first felt the elephant's side, determined that elephants are big and flat, much like a billboard. The second felt the elephant's tail, determined that elephants are built like snakes, the third felt the elephant's ear, determined that they must be shaped like a butterfly....

It wasn't until after they took their blindfolds off that the three explorers truly understood what an elephant looks like.

It's much the same with towing. To take any one factor and base a "whole concept" on that one factor will always "misrepresent the final product"...

It's not until you "see the entire picture" (GVWR, GCWR, RAWR, FAWR, PAYLOAD) that you can understand what towing requires. Like the elephant, each part makes up the whole and no part, by itself, is representative of what the elephant looks like, or what the concept of towing really includes.....

I highlighted the most important one for towing a 5th wheel trailer, with a SRW truck. Chris

[JRTJH]

I highlighted the most important one for towing a 5th wheel trailer, with a SRW truck. Chris

I give up. To me, it's not a "choose one and be done" but then I'm not driving your truck so you're certainly free to do it your way. I'll do mine, my way.... Cheers...

[Snoking]

I give up. To me, it's not a "choose one and be done" but then I'm not driving your truck so you're certainly free to do it your way. I'll do mine, my way.... Cheers...

My point was that a 5th wheels pin weight all goes on the rear axle and it is easy to overload it. It's rating is based on tires or very close to the tires max rating, something one would not want to exceed. GVWR is a manufactures warranty number. GCWRings are getting ridiculous high and associated pin weights with these high number overload a rear axle easily.

[sourdough]

My point was that a 5th wheels pin weight all goes on the rear axle and it is easy to overload it. It's rating is based on tires or very close to the tires max rating, something one would not want to exceed. GVWR is a manufactures warranty number. GCWRings are getting ridiculous high and associated pin weights with these high number overload a rear axle easily.


I agree with you both. If you stay within all parameters there won't be an issue. If you try to max one item an individual HAS to keep in mind the rest. As Snoking suggests, if a person thinks they are under max tow, carry one person and a bag of popcorn in the truck (in their mind) and put the rest into pin weight....they are very probably going to have an issue.....which takes us back to John's point. They are all equally important and we need to look at all of them to avoid some sort of potential problem.

Now, it's time to change channels for a moment, find the George Jones remix of "It's finally Friday" and listen to that. These pressure filled retirement Fridays can really "take it out of ya"....:lol::lol::lol:

[rhagfo]

............

It's not until you "see the entire picture" (GVWR, GCWR, RAWR, FAWR, PAYLOAD) that you can understand what towing requires. ........

I highlighted the most important one for towing a 5th wheel trailer, with a SRW truck. Chris

I give up. To me, it's not a "choose one and be done" but then I'm not driving your truck so you're certainly free to do it your way. I'll do mine, my way.... Cheers...

My point was that a 5th wheels pin weight all goes on the rear axle and it is easy to overload it. It's rating is based on tires or very close to the tires max rating, something one would not want to exceed. GVWR is a manufactures warranty number. GCWRings are getting ridiculous high and associated pin weights with these high number overload a rear axle easily.

John, What I believe that Chris is trying to point out is with the newer high GVWR SRW truck, it is possible to exceed the GAWR on the rear axle with a 5er, while still within the GVWR.
Time was that one could be 1,700# over GVWR, and still within both axle ratings (my old 2001 Ram 2500).

Now days you have 6,000# front axles 7,200# rear axles total 13,200# on a truck with a 12,300# GVWR, that is a 900# difference. Consider that even a diesel has about 300# to 400# spare on the front axle that is down to as little as 500# difference.

[ctbruce]

The real question is this: WHY IS THIS STUFF SO DAMN HARD?

We write brochures and stuff at a 6th grade reading level but towing guidelines are written like a PhD thesis.

If a truck manufacturer were to just simply state you can do this and you can't do this, they would rule the kingdom. 24882

[chuckster57]

The real question is this: WHY IS THIS STUFF SO DAMN HARD?

We write brochures and stuff at a 6th grade reading level but towing guidelines are written like a PhD thesis.

If a truck manufacturer were to just simply state you can do this and you can't do this, they would rule the kingdom. 24882



It isn’t hard at all...it’s just not presented in a manner that people today can understand. Maybe an “app for that”?

[rhagfo]

The real question is this: WHY IS THIS STUFF SO DAMN HARD?

We write brochures and stuff at a 6th grade reading level but towing guidelines are written like a PhD thesis.

If a truck manufacturer were to just simply state you can do this and you can't do this, they would rule the kingdom. 24882

The issue with the current brochures is that they all post mainly MAXIMUM numbers!
Maybe it should it should be pointed out as the truck gets more refined with options, the Maximum tow rating goes down.
Vehicle manufactures also need to start using 20% pins as a basis for how large a 5th wheel could be towed.
They also need to put more emphasis on GVWR, GAWR and tire ratings.

[CaptnJohn]

The real question is this: WHY IS THIS STUFF SO DAMN HARD?

We write brochures and stuff at a 6th grade reading level but towing guidelines are written like a PhD thesis.

If a truck manufacturer were to just simply state you can do this and you can't do this, they would rule the kingdom. 24882

Not always but very often someone is looking for another to read the numbers in an abstract manner to show his TV is up to the task although he is certain or suspects he does not have enough truck. This not rocket science, a brain surgeon is not needed to do the simple math. If math says you are over you need more truck, less trailer or on a seasonal site. Always be on the safe side of the numbers.

[rhagfo]

I have compiled a detailed list of pros and cons for buying a new TV with DRW, and for one with SRW. Looking at the 2019 Silverado 3500HD models with 6.6L Duramax diesel, both are plenty capable of pulling my Keystone Avalanche A320RS. Prices are very similar so that's not a big factor. I could always flip a coin but that's not how I work. I will analyze this to death, read hundreds of blogs and posts, use lots of paper making computations and calculations, and run various algorithms, to come up with the best option (mostly said in jest). I appreciate and value the responses and advice from the members of this forum but would rather hear from those who have faced this dilemma. I want to know if there is any valid way to come to a conclusion, other than personal preference. Thanks, and happy camping!

UPDATE: What a tangled web we weave! :( Okay, to clarify my 2500 is a long bed 4WD and empty wt is listed as 11,530. I haven't put it on a scale but with minimal stuff we've added I may be just a little over 12,000. Yesterday I spent almost an hour on the phone with Chevrolet. The CSR came back with a tow limit of 12,400 lbs. Called the dealership and spoke with a low level sales manager who was no help at all. So this morning I went to the dealership and was shown the tow chart that Chevrolet sends to all the dealerships for the sales staff to use. It shows tow limit is 13,500 lbs. :) That's a little better but still in conflict with what GM and Chevrolet said. Went to the lead dog, general sales manager, and explained my situation. He and my sales consultant went to a computer and found another completely separate tow chart from what the sales staff has been using and it also showed a tow limit of 12,400 lbs. :facepalm: WHAT A CAN OF WORMS! :dizzy: So, where do we go from here? Bottom line - I can't/won't be able to use this truck to tow my 5er. The dealership is working with GM for a solution and once they have something we WILL get this resolved. In the meantime I have let them know I will most likely be filing a consumer complaint against GM/Chevrolet with my state Attorney General for false and misleading advertising, given all the conflicting data that's at the dealership, online at Chevrolet.com, etc. Hopefully they will clean this up and I won't have to go that far. No wonder this is such a hot topic on this site. Unless the 2020 data is also tainted I feel a 3500HD SRW will be more than adequate for my 5er, but to avoid any future heart ache and sleepless nights I may opt for a 3500 dually after all. Don't anyone dare say I told you so!! :lol: More to follow.

Sorry, been away for a while dealing with some "STUFF" but I read everything and take it all with a grain of salt. I will say that I have considered EVERYTHING when deciding on a TV. :banghead: I guess I should have posted more info, like the fact the DW and I will NEVER be full time RVers and won't ever fully load the 5er. As a matter of fact we only have the essentials in the 5er and the wife ALWAYS drives her SUV when we travel, so that is the vehicle that gets loaded, not the 5er or TV. :facepalm: The other consideration is that the TV is my every day driver and a dually, although great for heavier loads and long hauls, isn't a practical option at this point. The DW won't retire for a few more years so we only travel and camp within a days drive. The A320RS is a comfortable size for the two of us and two small dogs so it is unlikely we will ever upgrade to anything bigger and heavier. If anything we may consider a motorhome rather than upgrading the RV. So, all that said I will keep what I currently have unless or until something major changes. Thanks to all for your input.

Well I have picked up some of the OP's post.
He comes asking if he should get a 3500 SRW or get a 3500 DRW, NEVER mentioned thinking of a 2500! :banghead:

He also mentions that the DW drives her SUV hauling most of the stuff in it not the TV or 5er, sorry I will say this will get old fast. If she is hauling the food, cloths, bedding, chairs, and BBQ, not only will loading and unloading of that stuff get old, traveling separately is for the birds.
We full time and only have one vehicle a 2016 Ram 3500 CC DRW, we both drive and go where we want. When we started full timing we had two vehicles, the other was a 2012 Chevy Equinox, she despised following me when we moved.

Here are the numbers for OP's 5er
2018 Keystone Avalanche 320RS Specifications
Dry Weight 11,530#
Payload Capacity 3,470#
GVWR 15,000#
Hitch Weight Dry 2,275#
Length 36' 10"

The OP thinks he has only added about 500# of stuff to the 5er, personally I believe that would be batteries and propane.
The dry pin is at just shy of 20%, but I don't see that holding.

To the OP, don't blame the Dealer, or GM for false advertising, the information you got from the members of this forum should have directed you to a minimum of a 3500 SRW, you might get it to 13,500# to 14,000# as you use it more.

I guess what I don't understand is looking to buy a barely capable TV to carry/tow your 5er.

[hguilford]

First off let me apologize for my original post and not following through with my initial intent of buying a dually. True, we don't full-time and never will so having a dually as an everyday driver was never appealing to me. Bottom line - I SCREWED UP!! I did this to myself and if GM/Chevrolet and my dealership tell me to suck it up and move on then that's what I'll do. In the meantime my 5er will continue to sit in winter storage not to be used until I get a new TV. Yes, it will be a dually. As humbling as it is to be made a fool I appreciate all your posts and suggestions. I should have followed my own advice in the first place.

[Tbos]

I hope you are able to make a deal to upgrade your TV. Don’t be too hard on yourself.

[JRTJH]

Thanks for responding with your updated situation. Hopefully GM and your dealership will come through with the help you need to make a less painful transition to the tow vehicle you need. Good luck with that process as it unfolds. When all is said and done, post the photos of your new rig and then hit the road to enjoy your new trailer.

[Fishsizzle]

Congrats! On the new Whip

[Snoking]

Here I tipped it upright for you. Hard on the passenger side and mirror the way you parked it. Chris

[hguilford]

Thanks! I have no idea how you did that.

[Snoking]

Thanks! I have no idea how you did that.

Saved it onto my Windows 10 computer, opened and rotated it to be tires down. Then uploaded it in my post. Chris

[sourdough]

It's a done deal!



Congrats! That's a good looking truck!

[rhagfo]

Congrats! That's a good looking truck!

I agree, you will get use to the hips the more you drive it.

[cookinwitdiesel]

That should get you from A to B ;)

[hguilford]

I guess third time's a charm.

[Tbos]

I guess third time's a charm.


Looks nice. Enjoy. It won’t take long to get used to the duals.

[hguilford]

I can't wait for my first trip with this truck. With a 31,100 lb tow rating I probably won't even feel the 5er behind me.

[cookinwitdiesel]

I can't wait for my first trip with this truck. With a 31,100 lb tow rating I probably won't even feel the 5er behind me.



You will feel it, but you will be safely in control.

[travelin texans]

I can't wait for my first trip with this truck. With a 31,100 lb tow rating I probably won't even feel the 5er behind me.

Good looking truck!
The Duramax/Allison is a tough combo to beat, but after owning 2 I'm a bit parshall.
Hook up, set exhaust brake, shift to tow/haul & set cruise, your good to go all day.

[Snoking]

I think OP will soon "need" a larger trailer!

[ChuckM]

I hate to add to the SRW or DRW, but thought I wold give you my weights from CAT Scale.

My truck is 2017 F350 SRW Diesel crew cab 6 3/4 ft bed 4x4 11500#GVW hitch in Reese manual slider.

Trailer is 2017 Montana High country
Specs listed
Dry Wt. 11,180#
Pay load 3,065#
GVWR 14,254#
Pin 2,245#

I wanted to stay under the 26,000# non commercial CDL limit.

Did CAT scale with myself and wife some gear and 1/2 tank diesel.
Trailer had 2 full propane tanks no black grey or fresh water in tanks. Food and general stuff in trailer and belly storage loaded with lots of stuff and 4 totes of hoses and other stuff.

Pick up only

Steer axle 5020#
Drive axle 3,440#
Total 8,460

Pickup with Trailer
Steer axle 5,160#
Drive axle 6,129#
Trailer Axle 9,500#
Gross Weight 20,789#

I am for sure a little heavier now I work hard to manage weight to stay way under max. I use a haul gauge between CAT scale checks it’s not perfect but closer than I thought it would be.

If we were full time DRW would be my choice but until then I will stay with my current choice for daily driver and part time tow vehicle.

Thanks to all who contribute to these forms, I learned so much on weights, towing and what accessories to buy here before I purchased our trailer and pickup. It’s been 2 1/2 years and wish I had more time to use the trailer, but retirement is coming.

Chuck