Hydraulic power unit motor failure

[jarnold60]

Well problems continue with my 2019 Montana 3790 RD. On Friday the motor for the hydraulic pump for the kitchen and dining area slides as well as the 6 point leveling system failed. Unfortunately I leave for a 6 week road trip in a week. My local dealer can't get me in to the shop until the day before I leave to start the warranty claim. I eventually figured out how to manually put in the slides and jacks with a drill. My question is, is it ok to manually operate the slides and jacks for the camping trip (approx. 5 times in and out)? The alternative is to cancel the holiday as it will probably take several weeks to get the warranty claim approved and get the part.

[meaz93*]

That really sucks! Especially with a new trailer? But, it dies happen....so that's why you can and have to be able to manually work leveling jacks; tongue, slides etc.
They are their for that exact reason.
You will be fine and it won't affect your warranty.
Now get out there and camp! Be safe and have fun. 22284

[jarnold60]

Thanks for the advice!

[bobbecky]

Before you leave on your trip, you should make sure you have the drill, bit, and can actually extend and level with the jacks and extend and retract the slides. Several months ago a neighbor in the park we were in had a failure in his levelup system. He had his landing jacks down and was part way down with the remaining jacks. We tried to level the rig using a heavy drill, but was unable to lift the rig. Fortunately, he was able to connect back to his hitch and we got all the jacks retracted. Upon digging into Lippert literature, they advise using the drill method only to retract jacks and slides to enable getting the rig to a service center for repairs.

[jarnold60]

Thanks I'll do that tomorrow to be sure I can.

[Frank G]

Are you sure it is a motor? How quick can your dealer get you one and how much? Can you do the swap yourself, will the dealer let a tech do it after hours, in your driveway?

It's your vacation, fight the battle when you return. You have already invested over $150,000. what is fronting another 500.

Edit: Who is your sales person, lean on them, nicely. Having your wife at your side will help. No one likes to deal with a unhappy wife.

[jarnold60]

Unfortulately I bought the unit about 9 hour drive away, but the same RV company. Power is getting through the solenoid, both switch positions and when the motor went I could smell burned oil and could barely touch the motor it was so hot. I'm going to make some calls Monday and speak to Keystone customer service and the local dealer service manager for whatever that's worth. The local dealer has no mobile service and unless I can get Keystone to expedite the process and ship the part overnight, I'll have to rely on the manual system. Definetly sucks when you spend a fortune on a rig and it turns out to be a lemon.

[ChuckS]

It could also be the hyd pump has failed internally and creating heavy current draw on motor.

[chuckster57]

Sorry for your misfortune but a failed Lippert component doesn’t make a Keystone trailer a lemon.

I would ask if the local dealer may be willing to replace your pump with one from a stock unit to get you going, and then install the replacement motor back into the stock unit...it can happen.

[ChuckS]

I’d also go ahead and perform motor check via Lippert PDF

22297

[jarnold60]

No not by itself , but two failed theatre chair controls don't help the situation. Disappointing for the price. I've had two new 5th wheels before this one, much less in price, and had no where near the problems.

Unlikely the dealer would go this far but I'm going to speak to the service manager tomorrow. They don't stock Montana 5th wheels but perhaps another Keystone unit will have a similar setup. Thanks.

[jarnold60]

Thanks for the test sheet.

[jarnold60]

It could also be the hyd pump has failed internally and creating heavy current draw on motor.

Don't think it's the pump as I can extend/retract everything with a drill.

[ChuckS]

This might be useful in advance ... make sure the oring doesn’t get cut or you will have fluid leak. They should send new o ring and sealed coupler but I bet they don’t

https://lci-support-doc.s3.amazonaws.com/technical-information-sheets/slideouts/ccd_0001892.pdf

[jarnold60]

Thanks for the info!

[Pull Toy]

Check your in-line 12 volt breaker near your battery. It Needs to be a50 amp rated per Lippert. Our Alpine had a 30 amp. Works great now.

Good Luck,

[jarnold60]

Thanks. The power is getting to the solenoid so I don't think the breaker is the issue. I also smelled burning smell and the motor was super hot to touch. All my testing points to the issue being the motor itself. Power to each side of the solenoid when switch is depressed inside 5th wheel. Motor does not run when jumped directly from hot post to motor terminal.

[Frank G]

Mondays words of wisdom.

A lot of times a defective motor is the result of defective components down stream. Sometimes motor overload protection fails to do it's job or is non existent or miss applied. A locked rotor may not mean a toasted motor.

A qualified tech is priceless.

[jarnold60]

Thanks. I managed to whine and get an appointment for Wednesday morning and hopefully they will order parts the same day. Doubtful the parts will arrive in time before I leave on Sunday, so I think I will get the parts shipped to my stop a week from Wednesday which happens to be the dealership I bought the unit from. I tried the jacks on one side with the drill and it does lift the trailer, not just lower the jacks.

[jarnold60]

Well the tech confirmed the power unit motor failed. Took 5 minutes at the dealership, did not even unhook the 5th wheel. Keystone approved the warranty claim almost immediately. Unfortunately the part may take 7 days or more to arrive at the dealership at my stop next Wednesday. I don't understand why it takes so long.

[chuckster57]

I don't understand why it takes so long.

Paperwork. It has to be generated at one desk, sent to another desk, assigned to a worker to pull off the shelf, sent to another worker to package it, sent to shipping/receiving to generate the shipping label, get picked up by the shipper....

7 days is actually very fast.

[jarnold60]

I guess you are right. Still frustrating.

[chuckster57]

I know how you feel. It’s extremely frustrating as a tech to have to “ put the unit in the back” and wait.

[sonofcy]

Too bad there isn't a thingy with a keyboard and screen and magic wires that you can use to send the 'paperwork' to whoever needs it. Could save some time.
OR maybe they care more about selling new units than supporting the existing units.

[goodellj]

I have good news and bad news: The good news is that the motor is really easy to replace. The bad news is that the motor will cost you $900. I had the same thing happen to me on a camping trip.

One suggestion: You may be able to get the motor to work again by tapping on it with a rubber mallet, or a heavy screwdriver with a rubber handle, or something similar. I don't know why this works but I wish I'd known about this when it happened to me.

The first time I had to manually operate my hydraulics with a drill, it was to retract and it took me a long time. Extending everything was similarly difficult. I got better and better after a little experience. It really helps a lot to have someone to assist you by watching the slides or legs, or watching a level placed on the floor. I had to label the hydraulic valves to avoid complete frustration and it was still confusing.

If I were you, I would buy a complete set of spare tools for the manual operation of the hydraulics. I needed a drill, a right angle drill bit adapter, a 1/4" hex bit, and a 5/32" hex wrench. You could borrow the spare drill or buy one and leave in the box to return unused later. I am suggesting this because I thought I was going to burn out my drill or wear out one of the other pieces.

I really meant it when I said the replacement of the power unit is easy for a DIY'er. If I can do it, ...

[jarnold60]

Already have them, thanks. The motor is covered under warrantee so no cost to me other than inconvienece. Just set everything up manually and it did not take too long.

[ChuckS]

Glad you were able to manually operate levelers till motor comes in

[travelin texans]

For those not under warranty.
The pump is rebuildable as are the hydraulic leveling legs & a much cheaper solution than replacing with new. Find a local hydraulic shop in your area, if farming or oilfield in the area you'll find one & check it out.
I had a jack leaking, ask the shop about rebuilding it, they could do so for $100-150, new jack $500-600. But they walked me through a couple ideas to stop the leak & they worked to stop it.

[jarnold60]

Great info, thanks.

[sarahdove]

Call Lippert and speak with a tech. They might be able to walk you through. This happened to our 2015 397 Fuzion a couple of months ago. We thought we had lost the pump also. 2 slides out and landing gear stuck down as we were loading up to leave the campground. After 4 hours of trying everything hubby finally got everything up and in manually. Let me tell you, manually is NOT a fun way to go. Anyway, we took it to an RV repair. The tech spoke with Lippert and all they did was reprogram the panel and remote. I know you don't have time as you have a trip planned, but might be worth a call; or take your rig to another repair place and let them diagnose. It only cost us 250.00, could have been worse. Good luck, and happy camping :-)

[ChuckS]

What were the ideas to stop a hyd leak on the system? Also if you have a good local electric motor shop many can rebuild the electric motor as well.

[travelin texans]

What were the ideas to stop a hyd leak on the system? Also if you have a good local electric motor shop many can rebuild the electric motor as well.

You're asking me about the leaking jack I suppose?
They said the 3 bolts at the bottom on a sort of triangular piece has a seal in it, they suggested to remove the 3 bolts, slide that piece down, clean it & the ram very well with silicone spray & reinstall it by turning it 1 hole off from it's original position. Fortunately that worked for mine.
They also suggested to wipe down & spray with the silicone spray each time you retract them & if extended for long periods to operate them occasionally to keep the seals lubricated, these suggestions were also recommended by the factory techs.
You can use WD40 silicone spray, but DO NOT use regular WD40 on the jacks or anything rubber, it will swell it up & ruin it. IMO regular WD40 is only good for rusted bolts.....
Recommended as well by the factory techs was to remove 1 qt of fluid from the hydraulic reservoir & replace with 15w anti stiction oil (motorcycle fork oil). This oil is better for the seals & is not affected by ambient temperature which prevents the jacks from popping & creaking when extended.