Are Self Repairs Worth It?

[sourdough]

We've had numerous posts, actually more than that, commenting on the need, and savings, associated with doing your own repairs.

I have repaired, worked on and fixed everything I've ever owned. Loved doing it, loved the knowledge and expertise and loved looking at the finished product. Over the last 2-3 years "life" has really kicked in and I've found I'm not able to do many of the things I used to do and have to have it "farmed out". Bad deal for me and usually for the ones doing it because I know what should be done....and not take what I get back.

As far as doing the work yourself; the benefits of that were just reinforced with me today. I had a leaking galley gray tank. What had to be done seemed simple; drop the coroplast, pull the tank and disconnect the drain lines, grab a new tank, secure it, reinstall the drain/vent lines and put the coroplast back up. Sounds a little involved but not really IMO. Well....

Had that exact work done and picked up the trailer today. The cost? Well over $3100!!! For the life of me I don't know how it runs up that high but I do know if you are able to do your own work and feel comfortable doing it, by all means DO IT! You can save yourself some serious money doing some relatively simple things....

Just a heads up in case folks don't have any idea how expensive these things can get and how worthwhile it is to do your own work. Good luck to all.

[Logan X]

I couldn’t agree with you more Danny. I love doing my own maintenance and repairs. Half of the fun is figuring out how something works and how to fix it or make it better.

I wish you the best as you figure out how to deal with “life kicking in.”

[CaptnJohn]

Life kicked in on me long ago. Still doubt $3100 is reasonable for that job.

[bobbecky]

Another option, and one that could be helpful to more than you, is enlist some young help, possibly grandkids, and with your knowledge and guidance, you could get the work done, still with some financial payment to your student helpers, but they would be gaining some valuable training in the process, something rarely available in most schools anymore. You would also gain with spending time with your young workers, besides still getting the work done.

And yes, I still do most all my own work. I haven't been willing to trust most of these repair shops yet.

[Javi]

Younger friends, adult beverages, & food...+ cranky old fart... = job done :D

[notanlines]

I also found the figure of $3100 maybe not shocking, but certainly eye-opening. I'm curious what our resident tech might think about the cost of this repair. I still do the majority of medium to small repair projects, but not with the enthusiasm I once had. Tank/valve cables; yes. Tank replacement; no.

[chuckster57]

I also found the figure of $3100 maybe not shocking, but certainly eye-opening. I'm curious what our resident tech might think about the cost of this repair. I still do the majority of medium to small repair projects, but not with the enthusiasm I once had. Tank/valve cables; yes. Tank replacement; no.

$3100.00 seems a bit over the top to me, but remember I don’t write the R/O I just read them and follow orders LOL

That said, how many hours did they quote and at what rate? Factory pays at most 2.5-3 hrs. Even at our current $175/hr that’s pushing it. What did they charge for the tank?

Just for the record, I beat the flat rate every time.

[SummitPond]

It seems the RV tech billable rate around me is about $150/hour. I wonder how much of that actually gets into the person's pocket who is doing the work. And what is driving the cost? It seems all the trades (electrician, plumber, ..., as well as auto mechanics) are also (IMHO) sky high these days.

[chuckster57]

It seems the RV tech billable rate around me is about $150/hour. I wonder how much of that actually gets into the person's pocket who is doing the work. And what is driving the cost? It seems all the trades (electrician, plumber, ..., as well as auto mechanics) are also (IMHO) sky high these days.

Some shops are flat rate and others are hourly. I’m working in the Bay Area and get hourly, but where I live it is flat rate and about $5/hr less. I left the flat rate shop because I was standing around a lot. I am currently working 9 hrs a day, 6 days a week and getting some sweet bonus checks.

[JRTJH]

In this area, the going "shop rate" is around $140 an hour. Typically, the mechanic gets $12-20 an hour of that. What's left over (if you can call it left over) goes to pay for the mortgage on the building, utilities, insurance, upkeep/maintenance/cleaning expenses, advertising, building stock in the store/parts department, salaries of people that aren't in the "repair part" of the business, mowing the grass in the summer and pushing the snow in the winter AND: profit for the business owners/investors. There's a LOT more to keeping a business open (and the lights on) than paying the mechanic the "full shop rate" for his work.... But, I'm sure everyone knows this, just doesn't put 2 and 2 together when writing a $3100 check for something that "used to cost $600......

I remember when Ford "used to sell cars" for $2200. It cost them $1000 to build the car and they made $1200 profit. Today's Ford sells for $50,000. It costs them $20,000 to build it, so it "should sell for $21200, Right ??? After all, they're selling lots more cars now than in 1965, so they should make more profit from the increase in volume, not the increase in price ???? :whistling:

[kfxgreenie]

And what is driving the cost? It seems all the trades (electrician, plumber, ..., as well as auto mechanics) are also (IMHO) sky high these days.

The education system pushing kids into college careers and brainwashing them that physical work is a bad thing. So like anything it is supply and demand. If there was so much supply, non dealer service centers with good potential employees banging down their doors looking for jobs you may see the price go down. But there is not, so it puts those who need work done and willing to pay in a vulnerable situation. These dealers also have Mega overhead, building these huge buildings in the recent years. Wait till next year when the recession hits that 50% of economist are predicting. These dealers will fold, there will be an abundance of used trailers given away cheap on bank repo's from people overextended in debt. The people who are willing to do whatever to make their family survive will start taking jobs nobody wants today. Well that is the theory that is in my dumb little brain. :facepalm:

[CaptnJohn]

The rate here is $80 plus $80 service call for a mobile tech and $120-$145 shop rate.
Thinking 3 hours on the tank job at $450 labor. Can the tank with markup cost over $2600? No way.

[ADQ K9]

Well how many people were on the job? That has not been addressed. If 2 techs were on the job does that double the labor rate in some places:confused:
I am still relatively young and try to do everything I am skilled enough or have the tools to do.
For me it comes down to how much is my time worth. Sometimes I have to bite the bullet and pay just because I don't have the time to perform the task.

[travelin texans]

Younger friends, adult beverages, & food...+ cranky old fart... = job done :D

Totally agree!
Plus regardless how many folks it took, $3100 sounds very high to replace $200-300 tank. Sounds like they got their monthly expenses met from 1 tank replacement.
Boy do I understand about "life kicking in"!! I still have the tools, skill & ability to do about anything, just don't have the "want to" anymore.
Laying under the vehicle or rv all day repairing something just does not sound appealing anymore.

[JRTJH]

Totally agree!
Plus regardless how many folks it took, $3100 sounds very high to replace $200-300 tank. Sounds like they got their monthly expenses met from 1 tank replacement.

Remembering the issues with dead batteries, replacements "provided at no cost by the dealer" and other comments about work performed, I immediately thought, "Well, the dealer just made up the cost of those new batteries and the installation." Might not be even related to what happened, but that was what ran through my mind as soon as I read the cost of tank replacement.....

[sourdough]

$3100.00 seems a bit over the top to me, but remember I don’t write the R/O I just read them and follow orders LOL

That said, how many hours did they quote and at what rate? Factory pays at most 2.5-3 hrs. Even at our current $175/hr that’s pushing it. What did they charge for the tank?

Just for the record, I beat the flat rate every time.


I was floored by the total as well. The shop rate last time I looked was about $150hr if I recall. The caveat to all this is that I did have extended warranty that covered most of it. I don't know if that would increase or lower the cost. I know we've mentioned many times that shops don't like warranty work due to the reduced rates they are paid by the manufacturer vs actual repair work. I know that comment has been made to me by dealer folks but don't know to what extent it happens.

To compound this particular matter the invoice I received shows "N/C" on most items due to warranty paying for it. My portion was only 736.89. Going in I figured I would have to pay for it all and told DW be prepared for about a thousand dollar hit - 3100 never crossed my mind. When paying they pulled up the list reimbursed by the warranty and it was 2445 or something like that. I asked about a copy and he said he would get me one. It was closing time so I agreed and took off because it was late, a big storm was coming and I had to drive a little over an hour to get the trailer back in the barn.

Some things mentioned that might be of use to some members in the future but not sure how they work;

He said I was lucky because the guy they assigned to my repair was an experienced guy that worked by the hour, not by the "job"?? He said that meant that he took his time making everything was just right, primarily because I had just raised havok with the entire dealership for leaving a mess and dead batteries after my last visit at the end of April. He said they allotted 15 hours of labor to do the job which seems adequate to me but he said the tech probably had double that in it?? He also said the techs that work by the "job" will rush through it as fast as they can so they can make more money which sometimes leads to poor work. I will say that they were spending extra time (walking/working on egg shells) because of my recent intervention and I have had them do some things in the past (modifications) on the underbelly to fix flaws that Keystone left which would require more time to remove/replace.

I was very much surprised at the cost primarily because I didn't ask up front; I didn't care. The tank was leaking, we were afraid it was compromising the floor so it had to be done. Initially I completely forgot about the extended warranty because I've never used it and after they asked I figured they wouldn't cover it.

I wanted to post about it because the costs associated with repairs on an RV are getting "up there" and some of them might be a shocker plus some of the things I was being told might be of some benefit for someone else going in with knowledge of those things up front.

Something else that came to mind that I've been mulling over; we recently had a discussion on the forum of traveling with the tanks empty vs full; I've always traveled with the tanks empty. This last trip to FL I wanted to "simplify" things so didn't dump every night we stayed. We spend 3 nights (4 days) getting there and going back. I dumped at the end of the trip each time this last trip. Result? A leaking gray tank. Was that the culprit? I have no idea. Should the tank be able to make the trip without failure? I would sure hope so but I'm thinking it may have had an impact - and at 3100+, that's a pretty big impact. Just something to think about.

I will post back as soon as I get a better breakdown of the costs. I doubt they cost much different than other places so might be an eye opener.

[sourdough]

Remembering the issues with dead batteries, replacements "provided at no cost by the dealer" and other comments about work performed, I immediately thought, "Well, the dealer just made up the cost of those new batteries and the installation." Might not be even related to what happened, but that was what ran through my mind as soon as I read the cost of tank replacement.....


Exactly right. I'm getting the numbers because I'm thinking that is exactly what they did....with a smile on their faces. :nonono:

[Ken / Claudia]

I tend to think about my time, is it available, do I have the tools. Nowadays can I watch a youtube video that helps with the how. I have replaced window motors and electric door locks in several vehicles. Lots of small work. Those type of jobs saves 100 or more each time. My boat was due for the 200hp V6 engine tune up, dealer wanted 925. I did it and used a full day and cost me less than 300 bucks. All work was on my knees or lying down. The RV dealer wanted 200 labor to install the slide topper. I paid that one.
I usually due wheel bearings, I know how and if I have the time I do it. I did pay the TT wheel bearing inspection/ grease 2 years ago. I did not have the time. Cost was about 200, I worked an extra shift after the trip and that paid for the job. I replaced all windows and siding, electric mast and new panel in this home, some with help. I built the garage after a co. poured the cement.
If I had to pay someone every time a vehicle, RV, boat, home, vacation home, rental home needed work I would be broke. Sometimes it must be needed, but if at all possible I do it.

[chuckster57]

30 hrs to change a tank? I’m sorry, but your being fed a line of crap. I took a black tank out of a fiver that was totally enclosed, and re installed it after repairs in like 5 hrs total time.

Me thinks the service dept hoodwinked the extended warranty company. Did they use platinum infused sealant? Gold lined valves? Titanium cables?

[sourdough]

30 hrs to change a tank? I’m sorry, but your being fed a line of crap. I took a black tank out of a fiver that was totally enclosed, and re installed it after repairs in like 5 hrs total time.

Me thinks the service dept hoodwinked the extended warranty company. Did they use platinum infused sealant? Gold lined valves? Titanium cables?

Thanks Chuck. Yep, something doesn't add up to me either. I'll get to the bottom of it. I came out alright I suppose but I'm sure thinking the extended warranty folks got zinged.

When contemplating doing the job myself I told DW it would probably take me a day or 2 to pull then replace everything. But, I have 2 torn rotator cuffs and both of my bicep tendons have ruptured due to a fall down a mountain and I've lost a lot of strength and can't get my arms above my head with any weight, or lift anything that is somewhat heavy or awkward so figured I was going to get in over my head real quick. Probably should have given it a shot because that would have been a stiff financial hit to take.

[chuckster57]

If this was the only repair they did, then yeah something is amiss. Even extended warranty companies have a “book rate” they will pay. How much is your deductible?

[sourdough]

Deductible was $450. They did replace the LP detector but said it was covered as well? They also replaced both batteries, supposedly free of charge, because they completely discharged the new ones on the trailer previously.

They said they were "allowed" 15 hours for the tank replacement by the warranty company. I'm not sure what all they have tacked in there but I've asked for all the invoices from the suppliers so that we can compare billing vs actual material costs, labor costs etc. It should be "enlightening" I suspect. I suspect I'll also find that the "free batteries" weren't. On the other hand, they may be able to justify the charges but I just can't see how.

[chuckster57]

It ought to be very interesting reading when you get copies. 15 hrs sure seems a bit high to R&R a tank.

[FlyingAroundRV]

Bad hair day. Ignore previous rant!

[travelin texans]

I honestly feel with the $736 you paid that you paid for the tank repair, batteries & CO detector then they billed the remainder to the warranty company, so basically got to both of you.

[Javi]

I honestly feel with the $736 you paid that you paid for the tank repair, batteries & CO detector then they billed the remainder to the warranty company, so basically got to both of you.Yep..... [emoji848]

[FlyingChief]

Another huge advantage of doing the work myself is that I get the work done when I need it done. There are a ton of posts about folks waiting weeks and sometimes months to get even simple stuff done...while their rig sits at the dealer and they can’t use it. When I fix it myself, It’s done now, not when someone else gets around to it!

[FlyingAroundRV]

Another huge advantage of doing the work myself is that I get the work done when I need it done. There are a ton of posts about folks waiting weeks and sometimes months to get even simple stuff done...while their rig sits at the dealer and they can’t use it. When I fix it myself, It’s done now, not when someone else gets around to it!
^^^Agree. This is an important factor for us. We can't access our TT for 9 months of the year and we want to spend the other three traveling. We can't afford to have the rig sitting at a dealer waiting for work to be done while we sit in a motel. And trying to get work done from 12,000 miles away is not an option.

[SR71 Jet Mech]

I as a technician of one sort or another over the years MUST do my own repairs. I have a fit when my grown children cut my grass when we’re out of town:banghead:. I too have had shoulder issues ( rotator cuff repair and a/c joint separation which led to the removal of 2cm of collar bone) and above head work is very challenging. However, as a old stubborn a$$, I refuse to not take anything in for repair.
4 years ago my 5.9l dodge had injector issues. Procrastinated until 3 were bad bad and ultimately burned a piston. But there was that “have the ability, know how, and 30k worth of snap on tools but no WANT to”. That went from a 3k repair to a 12k engine o-h. I was okay (sort of) with that but, having to have it go back 3 times on a flat bed to fix this or that really chapped my ___!
I know the day is coming to start throttling back but, I’m gonna push as long as I can!
As for the price, I have to agree that they jacked it somehow. As an automotive technician for about 10 years I worked at both independent garages as well as two dealerships. Warranty work was the worst as book time was always about half of standard book time. That being said there were ways to “pad” the bill. I don’t think I could have changed an in tank fuel pump and grossed 3k or padded a $300-$400 job that much.
Also if I was doing a complete engine O-H that paid 18 hrs book time, if I needed help with removal or install the other tech would be paid from that 18 hrs. I was paid 35% commission of a $65 shop rate. The owners or service writers would schedule only enough “book time” work that could be performed in an 8 hr. Day. Left a lot of standing around time unless you had a big job to fill in.
One thing that pushed me away from that industry was working on a vehicle, repairing the problem and have the vehicle come back with a totally unrelated issue and hear those dreaded words....”I just had it in here and it still not fixed” .
Do this other repair for free and not get paid. It always struck me funny that people will go to the doctor over and over for the same cough, pay another $$$ and just keep paying. But skilled workers don’t have that same luxury. As I said I didn’t have a problem with my engine bill and the problems that arose WERE related to the worked performed. Fix it right the first time or not at all.
Anyway that’s a rediculous charge for that job!
Getting old is earned! But I don’t like it.

Scott

[kench]

We've had numerous posts, actually more than that, commenting on the need, and savings, associated with doing your own repairs.

I have repaired, worked on and fixed everything I've ever owned. Loved doing it, loved the knowledge and expertise and loved looking at the finished product. Over the last 2-3 years "life" has really kicked in and I've found I'm not able to do many of the things I used to do and have to have it "farmed out". Bad deal for me and usually for the ones doing it because I know what should be done....and not take what I get back.

As far as doing the work yourself; the benefits of that were just reinforced with me today. I had a leaking galley gray tank. What had to be done seemed simple; drop the coroplast, pull the tank and disconnect the drain lines, grab a new tank, secure it, reinstall the drain/vent lines and put the coroplast back up. Sounds a little involved but not really IMO. Well....

Had that exact work done and picked up the trailer today. The cost? Well over $3100!!! For the life of me I don't know how it runs up that high but I do know if you are able to do your own work and feel comfortable doing it, by all means DO IT! You can save yourself some serious money doing some relatively simple things....

Just a heads up in case folks don't have any idea how expensive these things can get and how worthwhile it is to do your own work. Good luck to all.
I am sure many feel your pain. I have in most cases elected to do my own repairs as I don't seem to get the problem fixed on the first attempt when trusting a dealer technician ( Using the term technician loosly). Any warranty repairs I have had done seem to take 3-4 trips to the shop (thankfully I live only 15 minutes from the dealer I bought from). The $3100.00 charge seems offensive to say the least. I n future make a number of calls to dealers and see if you can get a competitive quote.
I too have gotten to the stage where I have to select what jobs I take on but the nice thing is that I still have the dollar and satisfaction savings of the many projects I have completed on my own or with a little help from my friends. WELL DONE!!!

[johnlewis]

Sourdough, have you checked out the mobile techs in your area? I have had two of them do work for me - one because I didn't have the time to do it myself, and one because I didn't have the tools (while we were full-timing). Since I was right there when the work was done, I knew how long it took, and I knew up front what his travel and labor costs were. Costs seemed reasonable to me.

[66joej]

I as a technician of one sort or another over the years MUST do my own repairs. I have a fit when my grown children cut my grass when we’re out of town:banghead:. I too have had shoulder issues ( rotator cuff repair and a/c joint separation which led to the removal of 2cm of collar bone) and above head work is very challenging. However, as a old stubborn a$$, I refuse to not take anything in for repair.
4 years ago my 5.9l dodge had injector issues. Procrastinated until 3 were bad bad and ultimately burned a piston. But there was that “have the ability, know how, and 30k worth of snap on tools but no WANT to”. That went from a 3k repair to a 12k engine o-h. I was okay (sort of) with that but, having to have it go back 3 times on a flat bed to fix this or that really chapped my ___!
I know the day is coming to start throttling back but, I’m gonna push as long as I can!
As for the price, I have to agree that they jacked it somehow. As an automotive technician for about 10 years I worked at both independent garages as well as two dealerships. Warranty work was the worst as book time was always about half of standard book time. That being said there were ways to “pad” the bill. I don’t think I could have changed an in tank fuel pump and grossed 3k or padded a $300-$400 job that much.
Also if I was doing a complete engine O-H that paid 18 hrs book time, if I needed help with removal or install the other tech would be paid from that 18 hrs. I was paid 35% commission of a $65 shop rate. The owners or service writers would schedule only enough “book time” work that could be performed in an 8 hr. Day. Left a lot of standing around time unless you had a big job to fill in.
One thing that pushed me away from that industry was working on a vehicle, repairing the problem and have the vehicle come back with a totally unrelated issue and hear those dreaded words....”I just had it in here and it still not fixed” .
Do this other repair for free and not get paid. It always struck me funny that people will go to the doctor over and over for the same cough, pay another $$$ and just keep paying. But skilled workers don’t have that same luxury. As I said I didn’t have a problem with my engine bill and the problems that arose WERE related to the worked performed. Fix it right the first time or not at all.
Anyway that’s a rediculous charge for that job!
Getting old is earned! But I don’t like it.

Scott

^ Agree with Scott. I pulled wrenches in both the automotive and heavy equipment industry for about 50 years. We had a saying about doctors " they can bury their mistakes" not so much for mechanics.

[sourdough]

Sourdough, have you checked out the mobile techs in your area? I have had two of them do work for me - one because I didn't have the time to do it myself, and one because I didn't have the tools (while we were full-timing). Since I was right there when the work was done, I knew how long it took, and I knew up front what his travel and labor costs were. Costs seemed reasonable to me.


Thanks for the thought. I didn't although I might should have. We live in a rural, "ugly" part of W TX where RV dealerships and RV parks are/were scarce so there weren't any mobile techs anywhere near a couple of years ago. That might have changed now that RV parks are popping up everywhere due to the oilfields but I failed to think about that.

[AbHDToyHauler]

I totally agree with doing anything yourself you can. Over the years i have spent a small fortune on tools and accessories. My wife used to get on me about spending so much on tools. However whenever we need to do something now I have pretty much everything. I have also taught my son to do everything from drywall , plumbing and fixing Harley Davidson motorcycles. He also has a vast selection of tools and we share certain things like table saws etc. He has often said to me " Dad , my friend took his motorcycle to the dealer for its first checkup and paid $700. With all the work we have done over the years we couldn't afford to ride if we took them to dealers!" I agreed. The other thing is as I have gotten older he now does some of the jobs for me or helps. My wife is also handy and a great drywall finisher. I"m sure we saved a fortune over the years. I do know that some days now I don't want to go to the shop and work on anything though. LOL Getting old really does suck!

[Number 4]

I can still hear the "crack" when my son was standing in the doorway of our old TT #2 and the floor suddenly separated from the wall. I peeled back the siding, spliced and braced in some new floor/wall framing and put it back together. I've replaced water lines and done small mods too. Just recently I couldn't stomach the quoted cost to clean and grease the wheel bearings so I did it myself on our current TT. Aside from working on TT's I've remodeled both bathrooms in our house, installed ceiling fans and a whole house fan, drip irrigation, plus a few other things. My motto is, "If I really mess it up I'll hire someone to take over!" That has saved us a small fortune and I'm thankful for the knowledge I've gained.